Updates on the Biggest News and Two Special Guests

So what about Hillary Clinton's health?

Okay. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. The sounds. of the memorials.

9-11 yesterday. It so happened I was speaking in Queens, New York in the morning and Glen Cove, Long Island in the afternoon. And of course, the folks in greater New York that are listening right now, you have been more impacted by. 9-11 than many other parts of the country. The same with our friends in greater D.C.

I've got some thoughts to share on that. We want to talk about Hillary Clinton's health, the presidential elections, some Israel news as well. This is Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to the line of fire, 866-34TRUTH, 866-348-7884. First, to all of my friends that join me in New York, whether it was our listeners' rally sponsored by Chosen People Ministries Thursday in Brooklyn or Saturday in Manhattan, whether it was at the services where I preached in Queens, New York at Living Word Christian Fellowship with Pastor David Harwood at Restoration Fellowship in Glen Cove, whether it was being at Harvest on Friday night in the Bronx.

We actually had a miscommunication about the Friday night meeting. I thought it was their normal church service, so we hardly even announced it. Turns out the only ones that came were the ones that knew it was a special meeting.

So we had a fun little gathering there with my friend Ron Corbyn. On Long Island, Shahari, Shamaim.

So, everyone that I got to greet face to face on our Israel trip, our Israel trip, not quite, on our New York trip, what a joy to see you. What a joy to smile at one another. And thank you for the many kind words. 866-34-TRUTH. What do you actually feel?

It's happening. with Hillary Clinton South. Do you believe that there is a serious condition?

Some doctors are even on record saying they believe it's Parkinson's. Do you believe there is something serious that is being hidden? That is being masked. Obviously, the fact that there was the initial report when she collapsed at the leaving the the 9-11 memorial. On Sunday, there was the initial report.

She overheated and was dehydrated. She's rehydrated and doing great. Of course, the question was in 80 degree weather, why would you overheat and why would you collapse like that? Then they said later, well, actually, she has pneumonia. She was diagnosed on Friday.

People said, well, why is she then getting real close with a little girl? She's got pneumonia. It could be contagious, et cetera. Is there something going on? Is there something being hidden?

Obviously, her side of the campaign has not been forthcoming all this time. Obviously, if she really has pneumonia, you would have found out that she was diagnosed with it on Friday instead of it coming out on Sunday when there is a public crisis. And as far as Donald Trump, I was concerned. That he might say something That would be inappropriate. And his comment Uh to Fox News with something's going on.

But I just hope she gets well and gets back on the trail. And then said he'll see her at the debate. But yes. It is an issue. It is a point of concern.

And what I find interesting, friends, What I find interesting is that the liberal media Which has been so overwhelmingly pro-Hillary Clinton. Overwhelmingly so. They don't seem too happy to be cut out of the process and left in the dark. And not knowing what's really happening with her health.

So there's a bit of a. backlash because of that. One other question. Do you feel we're safer today? Then we were.

The time of the 9-11 attacks. Which candidate do you think would do a better job protecting our nation? Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, just simply in terms of security. We'll be right back. Yes.

Age the world O God of burning, cleansing flame. Send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us today on the line of fire, 866-348-7884. The number to call. Uh Shortly, I want to get into some thoughts about 9-11, some personal thoughts and some larger national thoughts. I do want to talk to you about that in a moment.

866-348-7884. Number to call. Again, As you are watching video footage with Hillary Clinton, there have been concerns for some time about greater health issues. We know after her concussive episode some years ago that in testifying to the FBI, she frequently said she didn't recall certain things, and that was traceable back to the concussion. Was that just an excuse that was being used, or was that, in fact, the reality?

Obviously cause for concern just watching the footage yesterday. As much as, as much as I absolutely Do not want to see her as the president of the United States. Let God be God if he has purposes in raising her up as president. If it's judgment on America or wake-up call for the church, let God be God and do as he pleases. But as much as I stand against her politics, as much as I stand against her.

Morals and other things like that as they have been manifest over the years. At the same time, I don't wish her ill or harm. And watching that footage it did not look good.

Now, if it's simply pneumonia and she's been trying to push and keep a heavy schedule and she's run down, she's not a spring chicken, hey, that that could be. Again, my sympathies are not for her harm. And that's not my desire. But Something does not look right. on a fairly serious level to the untrained eye of me, of yours truly.

So what's your observation? What do you think? And again, in the aftermath of 9-11, And in recent terrorist attacks in our country, if we were electing either Hillary Clinton to be president or Donald Trump to be president, Who would give you a feeling of more security? Who do you think would do a better job of keeping America safe? Who would be more trustworthy?

Just your opinion as a voter. 866-34TRUTH. But let me just stay with this question for a moment of Hillary Clinton. and the media. Uh Joey Greb clip number three.

This is 20. fourteen. This is Andrew Cuomo. Talking about the media's relationship to Hillary. Because she's doing what they call in politics freezing pockets.

Because the donors are giving her money thinking she's going to run. That means they're not going to have available money for other candidates if she doesn't, and I don't think she's going to give it to them. She's on her way. To deciding. We'll say.

We couldn't help her any more than we have. You know what I mean? She's got just a free ride so far from the media. We're the biggest ones promoting her campaign, so it better happen. Yo Okay.

I appreciate his candor. I appreciate him being forthright. I appreciate them telling the truth. That's. Positive On the flip side, On the flip side, D did you hear those words?

We couldn't help her any more than we have. She's just got a free ride so far from the media. We're the biggest ones promoting her campaign, so it had better happen. She better run. We're giving her a free ride.

We're the ones promoting her campaign.

Now if the reports are true. The doctor drew. on CNN. When he Publicly opined that there was something seriously the matter with Hillary Clinton that needed to be looked at. His show was then cancelled.

Was he cancelled for that reason only, for that reason primarily? The popular view among many is that's why he got canned. CNN may have a different narrative, but just putting that out there.

So, why now would somebody in the media now say, I'm talking about liberal media, this is an issue. This is an issue.

Well one day they can't deny certain things forever. And and two, I don't think they like being left in the dark.

So, if they feel a candidate is not forthcoming, even if it's their candidate, they feel they're being taken advantage of, they're supporting her, and she's not telling them the truth, or her campaign is not telling the truth, then potentially they could not be that happy with her. And then. She made an extreme comment. She was speaking at a fundraising event Friday night. She has since apologized.

for overgeneralizing. But not for the content of the comment.

So for all those Rightly concerned over these months about Donald Trump being a loose cannon, I have to say As far as branding the The supporters of Hillary Clinton Versus how Hillary Clinton has branded the supporters of Donald Trump. She has said far worse things about Trump supporters. To my knowledge, than he has said about Hillary supporters.

So, clip number four: this is now an infamous comment from Friday, so, not a good weekend. For Hillary Clinton, listen to what she had to say. You know, to just be grossly generalistic You can put Half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic. Islamophobic, you name it.

Whoa. Whoa. Uh tell you what, I I w I want to play that again.

Okay, she's gonna be grossly over generalistic. But but listen To what the verdict is, listen to the description: the basket of deplorables. Look at the percentage she puts on it. Go ahead. You know, to just be grossly generalistic You can put Half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables.

The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic. Islamophobic, you name it. Mm. Extraordinary. Extraordinary.

So, you're talking about tens of millions of Americans whom she characterizes as being in the basket of the Deplorables. And of course, the characteristic would fit if now I've not been a Trump supporter. If the elections were today, I'm I'm more open to voting for him than I was in the past. But my views, my conservative moral views, therefore she would put me in the category of being homophobic. And put you in that category if you share the views that marriage is the union of a man and a woman, or that a kid should have a mom and a dad.

Or that according to the Bible, homosexual practice is sinful, you'd be there for homophobic. If you believe that Islamic terror is a real issue, And that it does relate to Islam. It may not be the only expression of Islam, but it is a real expression of Islam. Then you're Islamophobic. And yeah, there have been harsh things said about immigrants and intemperate remarks about immigrants by candidate Trump and some others.

And even though I'd endorsed Senator Cruz, I didn't fully embrace his immigration policy. I do believe you get rid of the the bad guys as quickly as as you can. And we've had a way too liberal policy with that, and it's cost lives here in America. But that you do have the hardworking citizens been here for years, they came in illegally, if they've been here working hard for years, and kids that are here, that may be difficult, but you give them some kind of path to entry. And that's just my own view.

I'm no expert on this. But in any case, in any case, Um If you just say, look, we've really got to do a better job with immigration, and we've got to get rid of the bad ones that don't belong here, and we've got to seal our borders against illegals coming in, then you'd be xenophobic. In other words, in other words, This would be. This would be very much the way that many of you listening, if you don't like Donald Trump, would be characterized. And her apology was to say, you know, shouldn't have quantified it, say, half.

Oh, so maybe not have maybe forty eight percent, maybe forty percent. Maybe 35%. Think of that. One out of every three Trump supporters, a basket of deplorables.

So um again, this uh and just understand That what Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton is saying reflects the views of many on her side. reflects the views of many in radical liberal America. and and puts us in the ugliest possible light. 866-34TRUTH. Let's go to the phones.

We'll start in Springfield, Virginia. Bonnie, welcome to the line of fire. Hi. I just wanted to make a comment about because I've had pneumonia about a half dozen times when I was young, and there's some very distinct differences between what I saw when I was young and what I saw with Hillary. I had both viral and bacterial Mm-hmm.

By the way, I got hit with both when I was 28 years old at the same time. It was kind of a demonic thing.

So, yeah, I had it when I was a young man, also.

So, go ahead.

Well For one thing, you could You know, your nose is drippy, you're blowing your nose, you probably have a red nose, your eyes are watery, and you can kind of see by looking at someone's face that they're kind of miserable. Um, the other thing is don't don't you have a a pretty high fever too? Oh yeah. Yeah, I was like 104 degrees. Yeah.

102 to 104.

So you're you're you're kind of miserable. But, you know, even though I was hospitalized on one occasion, um, my feet still worked. And you will watch her walk into that you know, try to get into that vehicle. And she has to be literally lifted. If her feet do not work, they collapse.

Yes, st stay stay right stay right there. I want to continue on the other side of the brake. Yeah, I mean it it looks like some type of Neural disorder or malfunction. Unless she just was hit with that level of exhaustion. But walking pneumonia that would be different right?

Straight back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on the line of fire. Again, we're not here to bash Hillary Clinton. I steadfastly oppose her as a candidate. I do have concerns, like many others, that what we're being told about her health is something is missing.

Walking pneumonia would be one thing. You could be functioning, getting around. You know, you'd be coughing. I had that as a teenager. One of my colleagues may have had that recently.

Yeah, different. But if you have full-blown pneumonia, that's as far as my experience and what Bonnie and Springfield, Virginia is saying, something very different. And look, Bonnie, you've probably heard other doctors say that it seems to be something neurological to them, Parkinson's or something like that. Again, you hope it's nothing like that. But you were saying it just you could having the modia, having had pneumonia yourself, even as a younger woman, you couldn't relate to the symptoms she was experiencing.

No, I Um now my father he passed away from it hitting his head and then going unconscious and And then getting fluid on the lungs, which is a type of pneumonia, and dying within a day or two. Uh So there's more than Pneumonia is a general category from my understanding of just having fluid on the lungs, and it can be caused by a viral infection, bacterial infection. Uh swallowing and it goes down the wrong ice cube Yeah, actually Bonnie, that's exactly what's happened to my mom now, uh aspirational pneumonia and almost at the age of 94. But she's uh it's something we didn't even know she had and she didn't know until it wa you know, so again, that's a whole other thing. With other symptoms, et cetera, that was only found through x-rays.

Yes, so again, we don't know if she has pneumonia, what kind it is, and what the impact would be. You pray for her health, but obviously, this is going to be a major concern. The biggest thing to me. is When you're walking in the light. The whole world can look in and you have no problem.

You know what I'm saying? When you have no skeletons in the closet, then you can say, hey, Just Go ahead. You know, when your past is clean, you don't mind people digging into it. When you've got good resumes, you don't mind people checking. You know, right now I tell the whole world: yeah, release all my health records, every single one of them.

I'm thriving by God's grace. I'm the healthiest I've been in ages. And let the whole world know.

So when you don't let the whole world know, It does raise concerns. Hey, Bonnie, thank you. Thank you for calling in. I do appreciate it. I'm glad you survived those pneumonias as a younger woman.

866-348-7884. Oh, oh. I'm going to go right back to your calls. Right back to your calls. But...

Exciting news. We're going to have on the air with us later this week Jonathan Kahn. He's got a brand new book already. a major bestseller, the book of mysteries. And we have a special package you can only get through us.

With the book, with the interview we'll do, and with my mini-book, which is not available for sale, Seven Secrets of the Real Messiah.

So to find out about this, just go to my radio website, thelineoffire.org. Thelineofire.org, you'll see it right on the whole page. Order as many copies as you want. Of course, great holiday gifts. And when you're there, check out my latest article.

On vice presidential candidate or Democratic nominee, Tim Cain. Described as a devout Roman Catholic, you would not believe how he butchers the Bible. in order to embrace Radical, gay. activism.

So check the article out while you're there on the website, 866-348-7884. We go to Manassas, Virginia. Walter, welcome to the line of fire. Hi, um, this is the first time I've I've ever call ever been able to call. Um I just want to say my guy didn't win, but I said whoever would have the Republican nominee.

Who's your guy? My guy, my guy was Ted Cruz. All right. Yeah, he was my guy, too. Yeah, he didn't win, but I said whoever will win the Republican primary, I will stand behind them as they should have been doing when they signed the pledge.

Um My my thing is now I'm not fancying Hillary Clinton. But I would say I would not feel safe with her as President. I mean, look. He couldn't even protect four people at Benghazi. She didn't even call in the troops.

She may have just turned over, rolled over back into bed, and said, Don't bother me, I'm going to sleep. I feel more safer with Donald Trump because. He is he is for the vet. He is for the military and I'm prior military and I know what it takes. You know, it's protect.

And stand up. for those who can't, you know, fight for themselves. Got it. Hey, listen, I I appreciate you weighing in, sir. And um Obviously, the concerns about Benghazi, very, very real concerns.

Thank you for the call, Walter.

Now, some would say: hey, hey, hang on, hang on. Donald Trump's volatile. You don't know what he's going to do. You don't know what button he's going to push. You don't know what's going to happen.

Could be, that's true. but is he surrounding himself with good counsel? And would he not act without good counsel? That's the other side of things. Before we go back.

to the phones 9-11 in our house is a more sober day. Nancy's brother Douglas was killed in the World Trade Center. married man with two children. And He used to work in the World Trade Center regularly, but he he hadn't. for some time he was doing a trade show and happened to be there that day.

And perished like Leaving behind, his wife is a widow and the two children.

Sometimes Nancy will check on the Facebook page of Douglas's daughter about this time of the year, and still hurting, still missing dad, still. Asking people for memories about him and things like that, because they were fairly young children when they lost their dad. And when I spoke in Glen Cove on Long Island yesterday afternoon, there was a firefighter there. and he lost twenty men from his own firehouse. There happened to be some of the Key first people in.

He lost 20 men, and from the larger command, he lost 100. And some of you are sitting there shaking your head because your friends that that happened to as well. God can bring life Out of death. And light out of darkness doesn't mean the loss is not acute and deep. But it means that God can Do things that no one else can do.

He is the Redeemer. He does do impossible things. And that which Satan means for evil and destruction, God can still turn. For good. Again, it does not remove the loss, but God can bring good out of it.

and I also think of what it took Those suicide bombers only accomplished what they accomplished because they gave their lives for it. They gave themselves unconditionally to destroy other lives. They gave their lives to destroy others. Otherwise, the damage would have been relatively. Minor.

Maybe lives lost, but a fraction of what was lost, it was only because they turned those planes into suicide bombs. What about What about What would happen if we as God's people give ourselves unconditionally? Unconditionally to the Lord to bring life and healing and help and salvation. And we're more concerned about God's will than our own reputation. We're more concerned about God's will than our personal comfort.

We're more concerned about God's will than our plans. Lord, here I am. Send me. Use me. If Satan has servants that dedicated to bring destruction, can't we be even more dedicated to bring life and hope and healing and redemption?

It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Are you feeling better? Yes, thank you very much. Thanks, everybody. Yes, speaking to reporters, and then shortly after that has to be exited.

Uh and of course This is the same day that she has to exit in a hurry, almost collapses, or does collapse. Being whisked away in a vehicle, what's actually going on with Hillary Clinton? Many are concerned. And again, It is the secrecy. It is the deception.

It is the Telling what you want to tell and not letting the rest get out that is so concerning. And it's so worrisome to so many and has been a pattern For many years, 866-348-7884. Let's go over to Linden, New Jersey. Michael, welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Doctor.

How are you? Doing well, thank you.

Okay. Um I was just driving and listening to your program, and uh you make mention of Morrows. talking about the morals of Hillary Clinton, the morals of Donald Trump and her morals. But then I'm wondering about mister Trump based on a lot of things that I've seen him said or do during the time of his campaign for the Republican thing, the way he mocks Even talk about the military.

Now he's saying for the military, but the things he says about military, the things he says about black, and even call out his people to fight. Where I watch TV as a black young man, I see a white man punched down. I think the way the group he supports and these things. I'm wondering really where he really stands and who he will really choose to really stand for all Americans, not just the so-called white American. But America all across the board.

So I'm kind of confused right now when I listen to your program, really, who you're really supporting and where do I go with some of the things that you say. Yeah, those are absolutely valid questions to raise. I've been a strong critic of Donald Trump over the months. I have articles raising concerns about his moral character and his speech. I have videos warning evangelicals about supporting him.

This was during the primaries. I felt that we had other candidates who were much better equipped for the role. I have grave concerns about Hillary Clinton under no circumstances could I vote for her. She adamantly supports the shedding of innocent blood in the womb. She has put pressure on other nations around the world to support American gay activism and the like.

She has deceived and lied on numerous occasions, and under no circumstances could I vote for her. As for Donald Trump. The positive I see Is that he has surrounded himself with some very godly men.

Some of whom I know personally and closely. and they are constantly speaking into his life. and constantly urging him to operate based on biblical wisdom and constantly urging him to watch his words and to control his tongue and to do what is wise. And he seems to be listening on some level. A couple of weeks ago, he gave a speech and apologized for some of the things he said, which he said have caused personal pain.

That was the first step. And people close to him said those were his own words. He wanted to put that in the speech. With Hillary Clinton's health now, he hasn't bashed her or made fun of her, just to say I think it's an issue, but I hope she gets well and gets back on the trail.

So I still have concerns, Michael. I'm certainly not endorsing anyone now.

However, I'm hoping that he's listening to godly counsel. And the biggest thing that I do know, sir.

So again, I'm sorting this out on a daily basis just as you are. If the elections were two weeks ago, I don't think I could vote for Donald Trump. I certainly couldn't vote for Hillary Clinton. I keep watching and seeing things that seem positive. Maybe I could vote for him.

But here's what I do know. People are really challenging him and speaking into his life and he's not shutting them out. That's a good sign.

So be encouraged and pray that he would listen to godly counsel. He has key people speaking into his life and he hasn't shut them out. That to me is positive. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to the line of fire 866-3487. Eight, eight, four. Speaking of Hillary Clinton, Tim Kaine.

Tim Kaine. the vice presidential Democrat. Nominee. and senator in Virginia. Tim Kaine spoke at the Human Rights Campaign annual DC dinner.

It's a big fundraising bash. They've had President Obama speak, President Clinton speak, Vice President Biden speak, and now Vice President nominee Tim Kane.

Now interestingly, even though Donald Trump has said certain positive things in terms of gay community and things like that, and would even want to interview immigrants to see where they stand on certain issues, including gays. The head of the human rights campaign, the world's largest gay activist organization, the head of the HRC, Chad Griffin. believes that Donald Trump is a terribly dangerous nominee. Regarding LGBT people and issues.

So he really believes that Trump would go the way of conservative evangelical council that he surrounded himself with. May that Be the case, and that will ultimately be in everyone's best interest if we honor the Lord and do what's right together. That being said, Uh Senator Kane. Speaking to the human rights campaign, he said that. He is quote, he didn't, I don't think he referred to himself in this way then, but he's commonly referred to as a devout Roman Catholic.

And he said, look, his views changed on same-sex marriage, so he thinks that the Catholic Church's views could change.

So he cited Pope Francis. Who had famously or infamously said a few years back, if someone i uh is gay, who am I to judge? But uh Pope Francis was not sanctioning. gay marriage or relationships then. He was simply saying if someone of same sex attracted it wants to be part of the church, who am I to judge?

Same with the priest. It wasn't saying the priest could have a homosexual relationship or sexual relations with another man. No, no, no. No, not first but second. That was not the point at all.

The point was Who is he to judge if someone same sex attractive wouldn't be part of the church? Fine. That's all he was saying. But look, I'm not Catholic, and I'm not trying to predict where the Catholic Church goes. But.

What what he did say was this. Senator Kane. He said that He quotes Genesis 1. He said, I think it's going to change because my church also teaches me about a creator who, in the first chapter of Genesis, surveyed the entire world, including mankind, and said it is very good. And he added, Who am I to challenge God for the beautiful diversity of the human family?

I think we're supposed to celebrate it, not challenge it. Oh, you gotta be kidding me. You've got to be kidding me Wow, wow. Wow. Genesis 1 is the one place you don't want to go.

I mean, you don't want to go anywhere in the Bible if you're trying to argue for homosexual relations. And LGBT activism, aside from love God, love your neighbor. Yes, amen. That doesn't mean sanctioning things that God's against. or contrary to his created order.

But one place you don't want to go is Genesis 1. And when God pronounces everything very good, that was before the fall. Before the fall That ha. That that uh That that was before the fall. And Uh it it was Yeah.

It's not talking about men having sex with men. or women having sex with women. And it was not talking about multiple genders. Genesis 1: God creates Adam. Mankind is male and female.

Zachar und Kavav ra'am, male and female, He created them, and He said, Puravu, Malu ta'arat, be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. Only a man and woman could do that. It doesn't say he created the male, female, and a gender, bi-gender, third gender, and ambiguous, bi-gender, blur gender, college gender, conflict gender, cosmic gender, Christian gender, delicious gender, dura gender, dermit flux, dom gender, fist gender, gemelgender, gender cluster, gender fluid, gender, seed, gender, foz, gender, fracture, gender, spiral gender, swirl, gender, vex, gyrogender, librogender, oglogender, pangender, polygender, and trigender. That's a list from a website of multi-gender. Options.

Hmm. He he no, it says male and female, he created them. And the beautiful diversity of the human family is not that. That's not, that's, that's not. what what Genesis 1 is about.

Not only so, Genesis 1 establishes that his blessing is on male and female. And only they have the the possibility Of reproduction. in a trillion years. Just being made as they are. A man and a man cannot reproduce, and a woman and a woman cannot reproduce.

Therefore, they cannot receive that blessing, be fruitful, and multiply by definition. By definition. I'm not talking about adopting children or things like that. I'm simply saying by definition. And and when Paul explains in Romans 1 That homosexual acts are contrary to nature, he means contrary to God's intended natural plan for man.

And and and woman.

So of all places not to go Yikes So, I've got a whole article on that. Again, go to the website thelineoffire.org. And read it. Devout Catholic Tim Kaine butchers the Bible to embrace radical, to embrace gay radicalism. Let me grab one more clip on Hillary Clinton, and then I want to switch over to Israel.

866-348-7884. Do you think? There's more. To Hillary Clinton's health issues more than we are being told. That's number one.

Number two. Between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Who do you feel safer with? Who would you feel safer with our security with if they were elected? 866-348-7884.

Clip number two, ABC's Terry Moran on BBC News makes the following comments. She does not trust the media. She feels that the press has been after her for 20 years and it has she's developed a fortress mentality around all kinds of issues, especially her health. When she did stumble there and was assisted into the van, the first thing that her campaign said, so she's got a little heat issue out there on the 9-11 Memorial. And yet...

They knew she had been diagnosed with pneumonia and did not level with the American people about it. That is the kind of thing that raises questions about her trustworthiness. Yeah. How about that's one of dozens and dozens of major reasons that people do not trust? What she has to say.

I I am not trying to hit someone when they're down. I find it concerning that she may have serious health problems. Look, I One commenter, one journalist. One columnist who is very sober. what he has to say.

and he said he thinks it's Parkinson's, I thought. What? Seems extreme. And then, then, so a medical doctor has got a YouTube video where he weighs in. and shares that.

And look, if you listen to this show regularly, you know I am not one of these guys going for the fringes and the conspiratorial theories, okay? But I I watched one video today. and read an article. And it said, what was this silver looking thing that Came dropping out of her pant leg. when she was collapsing.

And I didn't see it initially, but when you watch The enhanced video, and you see it. There it is, something. It looks apparently like something silver is dropping out. of of her of her pant leg, it's the right pant leg, if I recall, and and she's about to be whisked away. What was that?

Someone said, Well, if you had Parkinson's and you had a catheter and you had this and that. Um Because you couldn't control your system properly, then here's where it could have been. I don't know. I I I have no idea if there's any truth to that. All I know is...

We need to know what's happening. If we are going to vote for someone and they have a serious medical condition. that could be impairing their ability to lead in many ways. It's only fair that everybody knows. Who who would differ with that?

And the only ones that wouldn't want everyone to know the results would be the ones who have something to hide.

So do you remember when you were a kid coming home from school with your report card. that when you had a good report card you couldn't wait to show it to your mommy and your daddy. If you did well for you Whether that meant straight A's or whether that meant going from D's to C's, whatever, and you got good comments from your teachers, you could not wait to. Show them. But If it was a lousy one, especially if you were irresponsible, or there were some bad comments by the teachers.

You didn't want to show them, but you had to get them to sign, right? They had to sign to say they saw it, and you almost, maybe somebody even tried to fake the signature. Ooh, even worse. What's the bottom line? When everything's good, let the whole world know.

Sure, check out my finances. Sure, check out my track record. Sure, no skeletons in the closet. Great, where I've blown it. Everybody knows it.

I'm public about it. Yeah, let the whole world know. When you're hiding something, it only makes you wonder, what are you hiding? It makes it even worse because now everybody speculates. Turning to Israel, we come back.

Change the world. Change the world. God of light, hear our cry. Send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. To burn up every trace of sin.

Welcome, welcome to the line of fire, 866-348-7884. The number two call. And I want to focus on Israel for a moment. In the aftermath of 9-11, I remember saying to myself, at least America will be more sympathetic to Israel now. At least America will understand radical Islam.

and what Israel has to deal with twenty four seven. and why they have to take the security measures that they take. And I think for a short time there was greater sympathy, greater understanding. But anti-Semitism being what it is, demonic and supernatural in its nature. And Uh not only so.

Just the reporting on Israel, the way it is in much of the world, can often be biased and misleading. It doesn't mean that we're anti Palestinian. It means that we're pro-truth and pro-justice. But All that. All that being said, On an ongoing basis, as there's terror, Islamic terror unfolding around the world.

Tragedy after tragedy after tragedy. Israel is saying, like to France, hey, We're here to help you. And Prime Minister Netanyahu, what Two years ago. Told French journalists, it's coming, it's a TV interview, it's coming to your country, it's already there. and you're going to see it unless you deal with it.

So Right now, the 15th anniversary of 9-11, we're reminded afresh. That same hatred that same demonic inspired terror. that was absolutely designed. to destroy as many lives as possible. And to cripple with fear as many other lives as possible.

That's something Israel has to work against every day of the week. As there's always pressure to bring Palestinian leadership, Israeli leadership. Together to talk peace treaties and things like that. There are Constant accusations that, well, the Israelis aren't willing, and then the Israelis say, no, the Palestinians aren't willing. What we do know is that at various times in the last 20 plus years, As uh Yeah.

offered The Palestinians, under real pressure from America at times, offered them. Virtually everything they were asking for was not enough. It was not enough. It was not enough. So There are about Well, almost two million.

Arabs, Palestinian Arabs living in Israel today, Israel proper, I mean under Israeli leadership with Benjamin Netanyahu as the prime minister. About two million. All right. What is the total population outside of Israel? Maybe five million?

Something like that.

so in the so-called West Bank and in Gaza. And And there are Jewish settlements there, maybe several hundred thousand Jews living in the West Bank and none living in Gaza. And the Palestinians have said: if we have our own state, there can be no Jews living in it. In the German term it would be Jutenwein, free of juice. And Prime Minister Netanyahu said that's ethnic cleansing.

Oh, not going to be killed. Oh, Palestinians would be, some of them, the radicals would be glad to do that. But they will be put out. of where they live. And they would have to live back on Israel's side of the border, not in a Palestinian state.

Okay. So so bottom line here. Bottom line. Israel is saying there are two million Palestinian Arabs. living in in in our state Why can't there be any Jews living a Palestinian state.

That's ethnic cleansing. Why must it be free of Jews for there to be peace? We have two million or a million and a half, two million Arabs living in our country in peace. Why can't you have a few hundred thousand Jews living in yours and refer to it as ethnic cleansing? Oh.

The US State Department wasn't happy with that. And spokeswoman Elizabeth Trudeau did not have Positive words. Grab clip number five. This was the U.S. response to Prime Minister Netanyahu, referring to this as ethnic cleansing.

We obviously strongly disagree with the characterization that those who oppose settlement activity or view it as an obstacle to peace are somehow calling for ethnic cleansing of Jews from the West Bank. We believe that using that type of terminology is inappropriate and unhelpful. All right, just a question. Just A little question. All right.

Just a little question. Yes, ethnic cleansing. would refer to forcible removal or killing of people of a particular ethnicity. I understand that. But if The Palestinians say there can be no Jews living here.

If there is to be a Palestinian state, it must be Udinran, it must be free. of all Jews. It's What do you call that? Ethnic removal? You you will have to leave, you will have to be uprooted, families, businesses, settlements, everything.

you will be forced to. and, I have no doubt whatsoever, That if radical Palestinian leadership was given the choice, they would physically force them out. knows that one of the stay would risk their lives.

So yeah, ethnic cleansing was a strong term to use, but didn't it? Didn't it? Um Get the point across well That you're talking about removal of all Jews? We can't have peace if any Jews are going to live in our state. Think of that.

Think of America saying, okay, we will come to a peaceful relationship with Russia, but no Russians can live in America. We'll have peaceful relations with China, but no Chinese can live in America. Yeah, we're beginning to have peaceful relations with Cuba, but no Cubans can live in our country. And yet, that's what Palestinian leadership is saying. Israel said, We got ready to have two million Palestinians in our country.

And we're and we're fine with that. Anyway, you see the double standards there. All right, friends, if you've enjoyed Jonathan Kahn's book, The Harbinger. If you enjoyed his book, The Mystery of the Shemitah, now the book of Mysteries. Jonathan's going to be joining me on the air this week, and then we're going to package with his book the audio CD of our interview as well, and then give you with it a special book, a great book, eye-opening for believers and great to give to a Jewish person.

Seven Secrets of the Real Messiah. My mini book is not available for sale. We're going to give you that with the audio interview as well.

So it's a great package. And I've got questions for Jonathan. What about Mystery of the Shemitah? Were there things predicted that didn't happen? What about stock market crash?

Was that supposed to happen last September? We'll talk about all that and his new book. The Book of Mysteries this Wednesday, but go ahead and order your copies now by going to thelineoffire.org and just click on the resource offer there right on the home page. And for all of those blessed with us standing with this ministry, thank you for your help, your support, your one-time gifts, your ongoing monthly support. Undergird us, help us do what we're doing to make a real difference in this world.

My bottom line. today. While we pray for the health and well-being of the candidates, let us also pray, God, raise up your choice to lead the nation. From a secular Jew who finds Jesus to a Christian apologist, coming your way right here.

Okay. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRU.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, friends, to the line of fire. This is Michael Brown, and I'm thrilled to be with you today.

Had a fascinating first hour talking about some of the things happening with presidential politics and the like.

Now I'm about to speak. Scarry, sorry about that. About to speak with A man that was known as um author of Internationally best-selling crime novels as True Crime, which is filmed by Clint Eastwood and Don't Say a Word, film starring Michael Douglas and Empire of Lies, nominated for the Mystery Writers of America's Edgar Award five times, won twice. Won the Thumping Good Read Award from W.H. Smith, been nominated twice for the Boucheron's Anthony's.

Probably butcher the pronunciation there. His young adult novels include the best-selling Homelanders series. Books have been translated around the world, Screenwriter, and on and on. And the Jew who was uh quite secular. has now come to faith He has a brand new book.

He has a brand new book called The Great Good Thing. A secular Jew comes to faith in Christ And he asked the question, had I stumbled on the hallelujah or just gone mad? Or that is, had I gone mad? Again, you may have seen him on the Daily Wire with his own podcast, The Revolting Truth. Yeah, satirical online videos, Clavin on the Culture and The Revolting Truth, and the Andrew Clavin Show on the Daily Wire.

So I'm thrilled to have Andrew on the air with us. Andrew, thanks so much for joining us today on the line of fire.

Well, it's a pleasure to be here. Thanks. Just this first segment, we've just got a couple of minutes, but how secular were you as a secular Jew? it would be pretty hard to be any more secular, I would say. I mean, I was I was never an I was only an atheist for about six months of my life in the sense that I declared unbelief at one point in my journey.

But most of the time, I was a practicing atheist and I just thought, well, you don't know these things. I it is really difficult to tell people who grew up in a church setting of any kind. How completely distanced I was from the idea of Christ's divinity or even Christ's specialness. It was just the kind of goofy religion that other people had. It was something you didn't deal with.

If you were really a devout Christian, you were not one of the gang, you were sort of somewhere off separately.

So, on top of being raised Jewish, so that I had no sense of. The gospels being important, or even they were sort of regarded as suspicious as the enemy. on top of that, I was also in this kind of sophisticated New York L A atmosphere where to even talk about these things makes you kind of sound like a yokel, like the odd man out.

So it was pretty secular life. Yeah, so so it's it's being raised Jewish in a non-religious home and then the whole environment where these these Christian fundamentalists, these Bible bashers, I mean, you you c there's nothing in you that would identify with anything in them. No, and you know, it's almost like to say they're Bible bashers is almost to say more than is true because they just don't deal with it. It's just not there. It's just a sort of ancient text that has nothing to do with our newfangled scientific life where all the truth can be found in a test tube and all this.

And it's not that people had no spiritual life. I don't want to oversell that. You know, you would do some kind of form of Buddhism or nowadays it's yoga or whatever people would do. But the idea that you got on your knees and prayed, that you went to a church, that you took communion with any sense that this was a real thing that you were doing or that these texts were... communicating a truth directly from God.

Just the idea just didn't exist in the communities I traveled in. Understood. All right, we'll be right back with Andrew Clavin. You've read some of his novels. You may have seen him on YouTube, elsewhere.

Seen movies that are scripted from his novels. His new book, The Great Good Thing: A Secular Jew Comes to Faith in Christ. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Yesterday was the anniversary of 9-11. My wife's brother killed in the World Trade Center.

Many, especially in the New York DC areas, that are listening, lost loved ones. My guest, Andrew Clavin, grew up secular Jew, famous novelist, award-winning novelist, screenwriter. An unlikely person to write a book, The Great Good Thing: A Secular Jew Comes to Faith in Christ. It comes out just eight days from today. Andrew, what were your political views like at this time?

Because there's been a bit of a shift there, I guess, too. Yes, you know, I think in the same way I grew up in a bubble of secularism. I grew up in a bubble of liberalism. I mean, my parents were Jewish liberals. I went to Berkeley University.

Everyone I knew was liberal. Once I was in the publishing industry, writing novels and working sometimes in Hollywood, of course, I was surrounded by an industry of liberals. I will say this, on that front, I was always a dissatisfied liberal. I always thought that things that people were saying to me didn't make any sense. And I was especially offended as political correctness moved in in the 80s.

I was especially offended by this idea that you couldn't discuss things, that you couldn't question things, that if you said, well, you know, I remember seriously sitting at a dinner party in New York City during the eighties, I guess it was, and making the comment, gee, L little boys and girls are so different. And the dinner party shut down. I mean, it went silent. And I was looking around as if I had said something terrible when I had said what everybody can see with their own eyes. And that was very, very offensive to me, as was the racial politics.

I mean, I truly believe then I wouldn't have put it this way, but I truly believe that all people are made in the image of God. And this idea that we should divide each other along racial lines is it was then and remains abhorrent to me, whether you're doing it because you think you're doing it to be a nice guy with affirmative action or whether you're doing it because you think you're a bad guy, you're being a Ku Klux Klansman. It's all the same to me. And that was very offensive to me when that came up on the left.

So I was always the disgruntled liberal. And then slowly when really when Reagan succeeded at ev everything he said he was going to succeed at, I started to change my mind. Interesting.

So the the political conversion predated the spiritual transformation. Very much so. You know, it obviously there came a point when they started to come together and when one thing started to explain the other, when the religious conversion started to explain the political conversion to me. But the the political conversion was easier for me to make because I was seeing it unfold in front of me. I was seeing that Reagan said, Oh, I'm going to I'm going to end the Cold War and he did.

I'm going to bring back the economy and he did.

So that was easier for me to grasp. You know, something very interesting, though, talk about being raised in a city of liberalism. My dad was very active in the Democratic Club in New York City, where I was born. And I gave a talk in Manhattan Saturday night. I was asked to talk on Israel and the political candidates, where they stand, and what would be a right way to stand based on our understanding of scripture and why America should even care about that.

And there was an Orthodox Jew present, and I didn't know where he was coming from. When I've debated rabbis, I've had Orthodox Jews there on the side of the rabbi.

So I didn't know where this guy was coming from. After my presentation, where I just explained that the Republican platform towards Israel is much stronger than the Democrat and some of the Bernie Sanders influence being negative, et cetera, he gets up. He is a. A physicist, a PhD in physics, and a lawyer, and he's running now for House of Representatives in his district. And he said to me, Why is it?

He said, I'm a conservative and I'm a Republican and I'm a Jew. And I agree with everything you said tonight. He said, Why is it that we can't get more liberal Jews to see these things?

So it's kind of an interesting phenomenon the way it breaks down, but it's cultural, just like most of black America votes Democratic, most of Jewish America votes Democratic. And obviously, you're a voice, a loud voice, that can bridge this gap. But do you see any progress being made in that front? Oh, boy, it's really hard. I mean, you know, I.

I was writing screenplays and selling them like one after another, which is difficult to do. I'm not bragging. I'm just saying what was actually happening to me. And then when I began to speak out loudly politically, my phone just stopped ringing.

So that the gray list, it's not really a black list because they almost don't know they're doing it. The gray list is really in place, very hard to get voices out into the culture that disagree. And the reason, I think, and the reason so many Jews and blacks support policies that are so bad for them and for everybody else. Is because they cloak themselves in the language of good intentions. And I mean, I think that I frequently say that leftism is Christianity with Christ taken out of it.

Like instead of giving to instead of caring for the poor because it is the right thing to do, it's really because now I'm going to have this power over people to make life better and to make things improve. And so you wind up with cities like Detroit that are gutted by things that sounded great when they put them into practice. I think it just sounds so good. It sounds like the Jewish ethics to take care of the weak and take care of the poor, but it's not really. It's really they're not selling, they're buying, they're getting power for the government and not really giving anything to the poor except continued dependency and poverty.

Yeah, and of course, if you keep getting your voice out, Ben Shapiro is an Orthodox Jew with Daily Wire. I mean, there are voices, the Dennis Pragers and the Michael Vedmeds, but it's still a minority.

Well, keep plugging away, though. All right. Before we find out. about your journey to Jesus. To be a novelist, I mean, it takes a certain kind of person, creative thinker, and how how did you stumble into that, or was it something you you had always been interested in as a child?

It was something I always wanted to do once I got past the sort of childish, you know, I want to be a cowboy or things like that. I really love telling stories. As I describe in the book, I had a very difficult childhood in many ways, and I retreated into daydreams. And because I have this very, very demanding mind, I have a mind that demands that things make sense, which is really what my story is about, I always my daydreams couldn't just be daydreams. They had to make sense.

I had to explain them, you know, if I wanted to have a daydream about flying, I had to make up a story about how it would be possible for someone to have the power to fly. And so that was very good practice, really, for a guy putting stories together, learning to plot, especially stories of adventure and suspense, which is what I write. And so it kind of was a very natural flow. on top of which I didn't really know it couldn't be done. I mean, it's a very, very difficult profession to get into.

And I just thought, oh, this is what I want to do, I'll do it, as if I were g getting a law degree or something like that.

So I was kind of a little bit of an innocent, and lucky for me I was, because I actually made it because I didn't know how hard it was. Yeah, very, very, very interesting. And obviously, a whole lot of people have written novels, and 99.99% of the world has never heard about or read. How do you look back at the work now as a believer, as someone who knows the Lord? Were there things that were in you that were more spiritual than you realized that you're now just better in touch with?

Or what do those novels reflect?

Well, you know, I was I I wrote suspense stories and crime stories. And if I go back and look at it, I knew this at the time, that their theme, they all had a theme of seeking for the truth. And how can you know the truth. And how can you know something is even right or wrong? And if you saw something and everyone tells you you didn't see it, well, did you really see it?

I mean, is there some kind of objective truth that's always true? And so all my characters were always struggling with these issues. They were struggling with them, of course, in situations of great danger. But I knew that looking for the truth, was the theme that I was working on all along. And that was the theme of the time.

It was that postmodern time when you went to college and they taught you nothing is good or bad but what people think. And you may think one thing is good, but in Saudi Arabia, they think something else is good. And how can you tell who are you to say which is which. And that just You know, even though I was raised with it, even though I was taught it, and so for to a certain degree I believed it, there was always something in me that was saying, ah, I don't think so, you know? I mean, it just can't be as good be a slave as it is to be free.

It can't be as good to be cruel as it is to be kind. If every single human being on earth and this was really the cutting edge of it, if every single human being on earth were a Nazi, Would it stay? still be wrong to be a Nazi?

Something in my heart kept telling me, yes, it would. And that was what the postmodernists were selling. They were selling the ideas: no, you know, it's really just an opinion, what's good or bad. And that really, I don't even think they believe it. Yeah, and on a pragmatic, practical level, nobody wants to live by that.

Right, of course, of course. Yeah, I mean, the line about even an atheist hopes his doctor's not an atheist or something. You know, there's maybe overstated. And look, when I met my wife Nancy, also Jewish, we were at 19 years old in 1974, she was a hardcore atheist when we met, and she helped me understand over the years how atheists think. I mean, she's been a believer all these years, too.

But there are certain bottom-line things. One of my colleagues and a Christian apologist says that atheists have to steal from God in order to make an argument. In other words, if you're going to say that the God of the Bible is immoral or evil, then where do you get that sense of immoral or evil from? Are there moral absolutes? All right, friends, we come back, we're going to find out how Andrew Clavin, best-selling novelist, screenwriter, secular Jew, ends up finding Jesus, his new book out in eight days, The Great Good Thing: A Secular Jew Comes to Faith in Christ.

Andrew Clavin. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. My guest today, Andrew Clavin, best-selling novelist now at the Andrew Clavin Show. You can also read him or check him out on thedailywire.com. His new book, Coming out in eight days is not a novel. The truth is better than fiction.

The great good thing: a secular Jew comes to faith in Christ.

So, just to be clear, this is non-fiction, correct, Andrew? Absolutely. Every word is as I recall it. Yeah. All right.

So something in you is recognizing that there is a morality that is higher than human opinion, that there are certain absolutes which should suggest that there is some being behind these absolutes. How does your journey really begin and how do you end up from there to believing in Jesus as the Messiah?

Well At the same time what you just described is happening to me, something else is happening that is really particular to me in that is I loved literature so much. I wanted to be a writer and I wanted to read all the books by all the people that I loved and kept reading and reading novels and plays and poetry and studying all these things. and slowly it began to occur to me That at the center of all of Western culture, the center of all of Western literature, is Christianity, and at the center of Christianity is Christ. And really, just as a literary maneuver, just to be an educated writer. for only that reason.

I began to look at the bottom. And I tell the story in the book, which always makes me laugh now, but it was painful at the time that I had to go out and find a New Testament. There was no New Testament in our home, of course.

So I went out and bought one, and I brought it home, and I went into my bedroom, and I was lying down reading the Gospel of St. Luke and doing it purely to educate myself. And my father walked in on me. And he was furious. it was as if I was reading the book of the enemy, the the the people who had persecuted the Jews, this horrible he was he could not stop cursing at me and yelling at me.

And it makes me laugh now because, of course, if you walked in on your teenage son, He could be reading anything. He could be reading a lot worse things than that. But I was reading the Bible, and it made him absolutely furious. But But as I got into it, Jesus came to Be the center of my life without my ever having a thought of believing in him. And it's a hard thing to explain to Christians, but simply because I loved.

My culture, and I loved literature, and I loved certain books, I began to realize that Jesus was at the center of all of them. And so he became a central to my consciousness, even though it never occurred to me to think, and maybe it's true, you know, and maybe it's all real. It just never occurred to me. In fact, I would kind of write that out of the books that I was reading if it came up. If I read Dostoevsky, he was a great Christian novelist.

I would just edit out the Christianity, except as a kind of symbolic reference. To the fact that there is such a thing as real morality, objective morality. And so What happened ultimately is this idea of objective morality became Undeniable to me. And as it did, I began to think, well, maybe I will just explain. Experiment with believing in God, not in Jesus, but just in God, a God who backs up.

Logically, without without God, you can't have objective morality.

So since I believed in objective morality, I started to believe in God, and I started to pray. And that's how you experimented. That was my experiment. And my first prayer was, as I was falling asleep, I prayed, thank you, God, because things were going well. And I had my family, and I had my work, and I loved my work, and I loved my family.

And I said, thank you, God, and I went to sleep. And I woke up the next morning and it was as if somebody had injected color, like that scene in The Wizard of Oz where she steps out of the black and white movie into the color movie. That was what it was like. And suddenly I realized that prayer I was getting a response to my prayer, you know, and so I started to pray more and longer prayers and more particular prayers and experimenting with prayers. What was I supposed to pray about?

What was I supposed to say? And over the course of about five years, It was obvious, I mean, I couldn't I would have been a fool not to see that it prayer had transformed my life. It had made me better. It had made my life better. It had brought joy into my life that had never been there before.

It had flooded my life with gratitude. It had made me understand grief when I would go into periods of grief. It gave me a deeper understanding of grief. And ultimately, I think I would pray, I live in California, so I'm in the car a lot, and I would pray in the car, and ultimately I was driving in the car. And just In humility, I went back to that first prayer and I said, Thank you, God, for what you've done for me over these last five years.

Okay. What can I do for you? The creator of heaven and earth, you're the master of the universe, and I'm just me, just this little guy. There's nothing I can do for you. I wish there was something I could do for you.

And it At that moment, really into my heart, almost like a spoken word. It wasn't a voice, I didn't hear a voice, but it was so clear. came these words you should now be baptized. And my reaction, which was kind of hilarious, was out loud. I sort of sputtered, you gotta be kidding me.

You know because I I had just traveled so far without knowing it. I had traveled to this place without knowing it. I still didn't know I was a Christian. And I had to now go back to the Bible. And say, why is he saying that to me?

Was it a delusion? Did I just make that voice up? I mean, was it just my imagination? Or or was it real? And that's when I started this five-month-long, fairly tormented survey of my own life and my own beliefs.

Because Let's face it, it it It was risking everything. I knew my father would never speak to me again. I thought I would lose all my work in Hollywood. I thought I would lose all my friends. You know, I thought it would be.

a very risky business, and I wanted to make sure on top of all of that, I was willing to do all of that if it was true. but only if it was true. You know, I was not willing to seize hold of a God that might be comforting, might be beautiful, or might be, you know, make me fit in with a certain crowd or something if it wasn't true. And so that's when I started to explore My life in the way that I write about in this book.

Well, I started to say, did I go wrong somewhere? Did I make a wrong turn? Is there something illogical that I've done? Am I fantasizing anywhere? And after five months, I just thought to myself, no, this is what I believe, this is who I am.

And this is the truth. And I became convinced of that. And in fact, when I sat down to write this memoir, There was a little niggling doubt in my mind when I review these things and I put them on the page. Will I suddenly realize, oh, I made a mistake? Mistake, you know, but the truth was exactly the opposite.

As I wrote them down, I thought, no, you know, every step of the way, this makes sense. This is really You know, this makes not only, as C.S. Lewis says, it not only makes sense in itself, it makes sense of everything else. And so it was a very uplifting experience to realize that. With the exception of the idea that there is an objective truth, which is a statement of faith, Everything else just followed from that.

You know, everything else followed logically from that. And for me, there wasn't a leap of faith. It was always one step after another. Yeah, extraordinary. And obviously, so much more to say.

You've got us on the edge of our seat here, which is a good thing because now folks can go out and get the book. You can pre-order it in numerous different places. The great good thing: a secular Jew comes to faith in Christ.

Andrew, for some weeks now, people are saying, you're going to have Andrew Clavin on the show. He wrote this amazing book.

So people are talking about it before it's out. And I trust it's going to speak to many, open many hearts and minds. I know you're busy. Thanks so much for joining us today on the line of fire. Yeah.

Pleasure. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. All right. You bet.

Okay, again, Andrew Clavin, the book, The Great Good Thing: A Secular Jew Comes to Faith in Christ. Oh, and talking about books. Best-selling author Jonathan Kahn, his new book of mysteries is out, and we've got an amazing special resource offer. You can find out about it and find out: is it true? Is it accurate?

Things he's talking about. Go to the lineoffire, thelineoffire.org to find out more. We'll be right back with Christian professor and apologist Dr. Richard Howe. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr.

Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome, welcome to the line of fire. This is Michael Brown. It is the day after 9-11. We talked about this some in the first hour, some sober lessons, and some words of redemption. We talked about things going on with presidential politics, including Hillary Clinton's health.

And the last half hour, just had a great talk with Andrew Clavin. famous novelist, secular Jew who quite sovereignly Came to faith in Jesus. And now, a whole other side to the story of coming to faith. And the mind and heart, how they work together. Dr.

Richard Howe, he is professor emeritus at Southern Evangelical Seminary. He holds a PhD in philosophy from the University of Arkansas. He's a contributing writer for the Christian Research Journal and the Christian Apologetics Journal. He has contributed to several apologetics books. We often see each other at events at Southern Evangelical Seminary, where I've done quite a few debates, where I'm also an adjunct professor.

And Southern Evangelical Seminary will be hosting its annual apologetics conference next month. We'll tell you more about that in a moment. But without further ado, Richard, welcome to the line of fire. Dr. Brown, thank you so much.

It's a pleasure.

Well, great to have you on the air. And, Dr. Howe, how? How did you get involved as a Christian in the whole field of philosophy and apologetics? The short version was that I was not raised in the church, saved at 16 by friends of mine from high school.

But my church didn't prepare me for what I would encounter at college. And I went away to college. That's when I discovered skepticism about the Bible and higher criticism and theological liberalism, these kind of things. And so as a person only three years old in the Lord, I ended up losing my faith in college. And it was apologists like Norm Geisler, Josh McDowell, R.

C. Sproll. through their tape ministries and and and things like that. That brought me back into an understanding of not only what I believe, but why I believe it. And that's what gave me the passion.

not only for what apologetics can do for the obvious application in evangelism to unbelievers, but what it can do to somebody who's already a believer but whose faith is being scandalized by the unbelief and skepticism around them. Yeah. And what year was it you came to faith? 1972 when I was 16. Yeah, I came to faith in in 71 at the age of 16.

Yeah, and I got involved in Jewish apologetics because as a young man, Talking to all the rabbis, I didn't have any resources that answered the questions and realized that I didn't want others to have to be challenged the way I was, and therefore I would write books that would help. Specifically, though, the areas of philosophy. Uh How, in your view, do these tie in so closely with the challenges to our faith?

Well, when I was a student of Norm Geisler's at Dallas Seminary. And back in the late seventies and into the eighties, There weren't a lot of apologetic programs. Most seminaries, if they had anything in apologetics, were just one or two classes. And this was what my passion was. I think if Norm Geiser gave advice today, he would say something a little differently.

But back then, Knowing that my desire was really to focus on apologetics, he really encouraged me to return to. university studies and do philosophy. Because he understood what I later came to understand is that while philosophy is not everything regarding apologetics, a lot that goes on in apologetics is philosophical in nature.

So he understood that a grounding in understanding philosophy, both good and bad philosophy, would give me a leg up on being able to appreciate Questions that come up in apologetics, like the existence of God, the nature of God, and questions of morality and things like that. Yeah, and philosophy is something that I've touched on very little, but there is such intersection in terms of many of the intellectual challenges that come to scripture. I'm going to be right back. We've just got a short break. I want to continue discussing with Dr.

Howell some of the great apologetics challenges today, how the church can respond. We want to let you know about this tremendous conference. It takes place every year in Charlotte. It's, as far as I know, the greatest apologetics conference anywhere in the country. It's an annual event.

You want to be part of it. We'll be right back. Angel World. Oh, God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I just want to remind you about the annual apologetics conference taking place next month in Charlotte, North Carolina. The defense never rests.

This is October 13th through 15th. My guest, Richard Howe, will be part of that. You've got again a who's who list. Jay Seculo, you Ross, Lee Strobel, Jay Warner Wallace, Josh, and Sean McDowell will be speaking.

So to find out more, go to ses.edu. SES.edu. I've had the joy of speaking at these conferences quite a few times myself, and folks come literally from around America. My guest, Dr. Richard Howe, Professor Emeritus at Southern Evangelical Seminary.

Dr. Howe, what would you say have been the issues in the last 10 years? that that have been the greatest challenges to the church, be it older, younger Christians, in terms of apologetics issues, what's your top three, top five list in terms of your own experience, what you're dealing with, what you're having to combat?

Well, one of the things I've noticed over since I've become a Christian and then started studying apologetics is the increasing sense in which our culture is much more comfortable being non or anti-Christian.

So there's all this social taboos about being an unbeliever have faded away, and now it's almost a virtue in some quarters to be anti-Christian.

So that's caused the Christians to have to we have to sort of circle the wagons and figure out how are we going to respond to our to our neighbors and to celebrities, stuff that challenge. virtually every aspect of the Christian faith from The objectivity of truth, the objectivity of morality, to the existence and nature of God, to the reliability. of the Bible and its historical uh the truth of historical events in the Bible, including the resurrection of Jesus. I I can't think of anything that we Christians that isn't in some quarters being under assault. either academically or more challenging in some respects at a popular level.

Where now the internet has just provided anybody with a platform to just spew out whatever kind of hostility and scale. skepticism and unbelief that they want. There's plenty of job security, if you will, for apologists. Yeah, really, really there is. And Josh McDowell has said that things that he would encounter, say, with college-age students because of internet now, he's encountering with 12, 13, 14-year-olds, which also means we have to break things down because folks are so used to digital answers and everything at their fingertips and tweets and soundbites that not only do we have to have the in-depth answers, we need to have soundbite answers now as well.

Absolutely. And in fact, I actually do a presentation titled Answering the Arguments of Popular Atheism. I sometimes call it bumper sticker atheism. Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings, these kind of very clever one liners that are sort of a tip of an iceberg of a lot of challenges to Christianity. And while the answers sometimes can be formulated, Jesus is the reasoner for the season, or God is my copilot, we have our versions of the same kind of bumper sticker dispute.

we have to be prepared to be able to go beneath The one-liners as the occasion allows to be able to help people understand why and how we know that Christianity is true. Yeah, absolutely. You have the chapter summary and then the meat of it. How then do you help students as a professor? Help them to think.

Obviously, we know the Lord touches us and changes us. And for many, that's enough. You know, the man born blind in John the 9th chapter, this much I know I was blind, now I see. And there's an old saying: a man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument. But you and I both know.

That as we're loving God with heart, soul, mind, and strength, that many times when our minds are challenged, when we wonder, have I been misled? Is the Bible really reliable? Maybe the reality of my experience is not so real to me right now, but these questions are very real. We must know how to think. Think clearly, think critically.

How do you teach students how to think? Yeah, I think It ranges from directly dealing with things like logic, for example, during the break, I heard from RC Sproll. And he points out a person making the claim, well, there are no truths, is making a self-refuting claim. Right. And so when you.

When you study logic, both formal logic as well as informal fallacies, Then you help students to try to see actual examples in the marketplace of ideas of people making statements that are self-refuting or lead to things that are absurd. And you can formalize these kinds of analyses in things like a logic class. You go from that sort of deliberate frontal assault. a more of a marketplace practice. Where you actually deal with the literature from unbelievers and try to do a systematic assessment of what are they saying and does what they conclude follow from what their premises are and help students.

A lot of times it just takes a lot of practice. And another thing I think is important is that, and this is not just for seminary students or apologists, but for all of us as as Christians is to never Insulate ourselves from the rest of the body of Christ. Don't get off in a corner and think you can take on all of the challenges of life by yourself. But stay connected not only with people that are living in your community, in your local church, but stay connected to the great thinkers in the Christian faith of the past. And try to be as well read as the measure of faith that God has given you allows.

Yeah, and something else that's really important is that when you talk about connected with the rest of the body, we're not going to be able to master everything. For example, your specialty in philosophy is absolutely not mine. My specialty in Jewish apologetics is not someone else's. But the fact that I know, for example, that there's a Dr. John Lennox, brilliant scientific mind, and he has answers for the scientists, or that there's a Dr.

Hugh Ross. Or that on philosophical issues, there's a Dr. William Lane Craig, or there's a Dr. Richard Howe. I don't need to master everything, I have a certain confidence because I know.

Others on our team have answers. And wherever I'm directly challenged, I need to go and get those answers for myself. But it's greatly encouraging when folks come to an apologetics conference, again, just knowing: hey, here's someone, he's brilliant, she's really smart. They've got PhDs from high-level secular universities, graduated from Oxford, and the president of your school graduated from Oxford. And they're thinking people, and they've been challenged by these objections.

They have answers. It just builds our faith and confidence, doesn't it? It absolutely does. In fact, that's, I think, one of the more rewarding things about even being in a seminary curriculum. Studying is that you encounter some of these resources that you might not have been able to know about, or are listening to radio programs like yours and others.

Where we can become aware of the fact that there is a John Lennox who's written books, who has YouTube videos, and has debates. To which we can avail ourselves. And I like that because it covers the gamut of all Christian, our human thinking. From concerns about morality to practical issues to speculative issues and philosophy and history and these kind of things. there's somebody there.

In fact, there's many people in each camp And it reinforces what we already knew from scripture about the body metaphor: that all of us have a place. In the greater case. Kingdom of God army, and we don't all have to be a William Lane Craig or a John Lennox or a Michael Brown. But whatever it is that we do, we just need to do it with the faithfulness and the measure of faith that God's given us. Yeah, exactly.

And then it does have a nice trickle-down effect, doesn't it? That you may teach it on one level, and then the person you're teaching is a pastor. Or maybe a youth pastor. And then they're going to now translate it for their audience and their people. And then those people are now going to translate it for their neighbor or for the person they're interacting with on Facebook.

So it has that, again, you back it with all the intellectual rigor that you can. You make it as simple as you can for others. And then it trickles down, just like the bad information trickles down, the good information trickles down as well. Absolutely, absolutely. And I often have to remind myself, it's one mind is one heart at a time.

You know, the Great Commission is not something we just go out tomorrow and lead the whole world to Christ. What it is, is that whatever sphere of influence God has put in our life, that's our field. And we try to affect one mind, one heart at a time. And then they do that consequently. And that may be as big as a huge.

Venue, plenary session at a conference, and as small as a Sunday school class, or even just a family member, or spouse, or a friend. Yeah, absolutely. And we've just got a minute before the break. What have you seen happen to the folks who attend the annual Apologetics Conference? It's been so exciting to hear people whose lives are just ignited because they realize there's no reason to feel intimidated.

There's no reason to run and hide from the flying intellectual bullets in the in the battlefield, but there's a way to take a stand. and be confident that what we know to be true is actually substantiated by sound reason and by sound biblical exegesis. Yeah, absolutely. So, friends, this is taking place one month from now in Greater Charlotte, North Carolina. The annual apologetics conference with some of the top apologists in the world coming to share, speak together, many different breakout sessions, plenary sessions, great resources.

From the speakers. To find out more, go to ses. E-D-U, that's Southern Evangelical Seminary, S-E-S.edu. We'll be back in a few more minutes with my guest, Professor Emeritus at Southern Evangelicals, Dr. Richard Howe.

Change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Welcome back to the line of fire. This is Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, spiritual revolution, my guest. Dr. Richard Howe, professor emeritus at Southern Evangelical Seminary, an apologist, philosopher, and debater.

Dr. Howe, I've had a good number of friends or grads from places where I've taught. Go through SES or at least take some classes there. And they have always loved your classes. They find them to be rigorous and challenging, but they always speak well of them.

So I appreciate it. You push them hard, but they love the classes.

Well, that's very encouraging. I appreciate you telling me that. Yeah, I mean, they they found your communication clear. It kept their interest, it got them really wanting to study, and they told me that you made them study too, which is sweet. That's why they're there.

Absolutely. And they keep me on my toes for sure. Good, good. What what what classes have you taught that have been some of your signature classes? I've basically done two kind of broad two areas, some philosophical type classes, and then classes dealing with.

the cults and world religions.

So for example, I've got a class coming up this October called Classical Philosophy, which is in effect an intro to philosophy. For apologetics. And we just start from the ancient Greeks and follow through on some major themes and how they play into. basic truths. Particularly, the existence of God and the nature of God.

That's one of my concerns as I see in evangelicalism that the classical attributes of God. I do a presentation titled God Fading Away. Where the classical attributes of God are gradually kind of going away in a lot of evangelicalism.

So we try to reinforce. how it is we know what Romans 1.20 tells us. Romans 1.20 says that the invisible, it's quirky kind of language here. The invisible attributes of God are clearly seen through the things that are made.

So, general revelation, God tells us about his existence and his nature. And then Romans 2 talks about how the works of the law are written on the heart.

So we try to emphasize and sort of tease that out in our philosophy classes. And then I do some on the new religious movements, and we deal with things like everything from Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses to the occult. Probably the area that I've Done more study, as more studying than any other outside my formal studies and philosophy has been in the occult.

So we unpack. What the philosophy of the occult is and how it manifests in various groups like Satanism, witchcraft, new age, and these kind of things. How much is. Really happening? How much is simply psychosomatic or simply imagined?

How much is really happening in the demonic spiritual realm?

Well, I think a lot of times what I've encountered is when people, Christians, start talking to me and asking me questions. They have what I call a Hollywood view of the occult.

So they end up, ironically, almost having an occult view of the occult.

So they start thinking in terms of hauntings, and they want rituals to drive out demons. I go, see, that's not even a biblical approach To these things. They're not like roaches that you've got to put some pesticide around to run them out. These are intelligent beings. who's who are malevolently disposed towards you.

And so the nature of the warfare, I think, is best captured in 2 Corinthians, where he talks about the war being a war of truth. that that's what Satan is against. He's against the truth. And so he tries to divert people from the truth or deceive them about his own nature and his own workings and then, of course, everything else about God, his creation.

So it's a matter of tearing down arguments and bringing thoughts into subjection to Christ. Interesting.

Interesting.

So you don't have like Ghost traps that you've put out, marketed those. I'm not a ghost buster in the conventional sense of the term. And someday if we're together at another conference, I'll tell you some of the stories of people and what they've tried to get me to do to come exercise their mobile home to drive out demons who are turning on vacuum cleaners and stuff. And I I I knew, well, what's going to happen is this person who's so worried about appliances coming in by themselves and shadows skulking around in the night. what they'll do is they'll go through some kind of process and then those symptoms will go away, and then they'll think their problems are solved.

And they will never have taken an inventory of how they stand before their maker. And what they've done with the gospel. They will never have considered that because they're worried about all these other manifestations. They go, those things are distractions. He's trying to keep you from paying attention to the one reality that really matters, and that's your maker.

That's what it's all going to come to. He's going to be the judge, not Satan. He's really not part of this equation when it's all said and done. Got it. The ultimate perspective there.

And, Dr. Howe, are you going to be teaching any classes, doing any seminars at the Apologetics Conference next month? Yes, I've got two. I've got one basically titled Rethinking the Moral Argument: How does God and Morality Connect? And then I've got one that's provocatively titled Why don't I have a biblical worldview, and you shouldn't either.

And that's sort of deliberately, I'm being a little facetious. Hopefully to get people to go, okay, what's Has he gone off the reservations? What's happened to Richard and stuff?

So I've got I get to do two sessions this this go around. Excellent. Good, good. So friends, that's taking place at Southern Evangelical Seminary. And and in fact, where is this going to be held?

You obviously have a larger facility where this is held. That's right. It's going to be held at Calvary Church. They're in Charlotte on Pineville Matthews Road and the corner of Pineville, Matthew and Ray Road.

So if you go to SES.edu and click on the links for the conference, you can get directions there and And all kinds of things.

So, yes, we've gotten by God's grace, it's just grown year after year.

So, now We need the biggest facility church that we can find in the city, and that right now is Calvary Church in Charlotte. Yeah, these are great events, friends. Whenever I've been there, I love just walking around and running into colleagues and running into so many believers who are really serious, really interested, wanting to grow in these areas.

So, again, it's just one month from now, Southern Evangelical Seminary hosting the annual apologetics conference. It'll be at Calvary Church. It is called the Defense Never Rests. And this will be October 13th through 15th. Find out more.

You can hear Dr. Howe face to face and ask him your toughest questions. And get, you heard it. If your vacuum cleaner is going on in the mobile home, he will be there with his Ghostbuster equipment, namely the Bible. The Bible.

Absolutely. All right. So, SES.edu to find out more. Dr. Howe, great talking to you.

Thanks for joining us today. Thank you so, so much. All right. Friends, sorry, unable to take calls today. Because of my special guests, I wanted to give them maximum time here.

And if you're in the greater Charlotte area, if you can come in from out of state, it's worth doing. I've got some new videos up. And if you want to find out about what I've got to say to some counter-missionary rabbis. One, a good friend who claims that I haven't answered his objections and of course I say, of course I have. many different ways.

So I addressed that on a video. And then another counter missionary rabbi who cut me off over twenty years ago and has refused to debate me again. And oh, the narrative as to why we finally got all the truth out. Put it in video form.

So if you just go to my website, thelineofire.org, just click on the digital library, and you'll see those videos, latest articles as well. And yeah, we've got Got some comments on the latest cultural madness. Tampons being given out in the men's room at Brown University? What? So latest videos are there and my latest article.

Senator Tim Kaine, vice presidential Democratic nominee, butchers the Bible to embrace gay activism. It's all there at thelineoffire. My bottom line today, truth. There's nothing to be ashamed of and nothing to be afraid of.