Phil Robertson Talks About His New Torchbearer Movie; and Answers to Your Questions

Well you've got questions, we've got answers, but first we'll talk with Phil Robertson about his new movie Torchbearer. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT.

That's 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Well, I had an absolutely delightful time in Dallas, Texas, still in Dallas, flying home later tonight, Cobb Willie. Had an absolutely delightful time meeting our line of fire listeners there.

Some neat things happened over the course of the night, even beyond that. But for all of those that were there, great joy to be with you. Thanks so much for joining us. This is Michael Brown, your voice of moral. Sanity and spiritual clarity in the midst of a society and chaos in a church, all too often in compromise.

It is Friday, which means you've got questions. We've got answers. Anything under the sun that you want to ask me that's appropriate for Christian radio. Phone lines are open. 866-34TRUTH-866-348-7884.

We virtually never have guests on Friday. It's the rarest of the rare because it's just the day for you to call in with your questions. But we have an opportunity to speak with the Duck Commander, Phil Robertson, of Duck Dynasty fame. He has a new movie coming out called Torch Bearer. By the way, all of you who are our monthly supporters know that that's our name, Torchbearer.

So I have to talk to Phil about stealing our name there for the movie. But he's got a powerful documentary. I've seen the trailer. It stirred my heart. It's coming out October 7th.

So we want to find out about this new movie, Torchbearer, with Phil Robertson. Hey, Phil, thanks for joining us on the line of fire today. Yeah, no. Problem, man. Good to be here.

Well, thank you.

So, tell me about this movie. Why did you decide to make a documentary? What kind of statement are you trying to make to America?

Well it's If you look around. The documentary is basically a historical account. Do empires when they forget God. You can start with the Babylonians down through to the Greeks, to the Romans, Fast forward to the Nazis. The Shintoist The communists The Latest crop.

The Islamist. And every time Jesus is left out of the equation. If you just look, Nazis know Jesus Uh Shinto is no jeez that's currently. Communists know Jesus, Islamists know Jesus. There's always a slaughterhouse and carnage beyond belief.

I see a definite pattern.

So the documentary They my nephew wrote the thing, unbeknown to me. He showed it to Steve Bannon and some of the guys in Washington, DC with Citizens United. And they contacted me and asked me, would I do it? They asked Zach, did they think their uncle would do this? He's my nephew.

And I said, let me read the script. I read it. I was shocked that my nephew is as intelligent as he is. And I said, well, yeah, let's go for it.

So we went all over Europe and we visited Rome, the Coliseum, where they fed our brothers and sisters to the lines. And we went to Auschwitz where Hitler's decision. Yeah. that a whole group of people were not worth anything.

So we slaughtered them. And just from there, the French Revolution and the carnage that took place there. And we just brought it right up to modern day where they're slicing Human beings into pieces and selling their body parts for crying out loud. And they parade their perversion in front of us, and they legislate the murder of. their own children.

So the documentary is what happens When you remove God as the anchor as your anchor. and you allow men to determine what's right and wrong. what's good and evil. and how much your life is worth. We hope that although it's a brutal film and I told someone, I said, the reason it's a brutal film Is that when people forget God, it becomes brutal in a hurry?

Yeah, I mean, it's. You're displaying reality. The trailer alone is shocking. But we're talking reality. All right, we'll be right back with Phil Robertson, the new movie, Torchbearer.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Would you consider yourself a homophobe? I'm as much of a homophobe as Jesus was. People who are participating in homosexual behavior, they need to know that I love them. That's the voice of Phil Robertson, Duck Dynasty. Of course, he's going to be asked questions like that, as we all are if we hold to conservative biblical values.

He was interviewing on ABC. There's a new movie coming out October 7th called Torchbearer: What happens when human beings who have been created in the image of God push the God of the Bible out of their lives, out of society? Phil, you had read the script. Then you went around the world and narrated and participated in this documentary. Were you yourself shaken?

through the process. Let me tell you something. When I Walked into that death camp at Auschwitz. Because Amen. A dolph hitler.

decided that a whole group of people were not worth anything. And when I went To where he He took them. And I went downstairs in a concrete Block it. where you could jam about two hundred people into it, Women and children. Children hugging their mothers.

They stripped them naked. and put them in these blocks They drop poison gas down upon their heads the fingernail marks along the edge of those walls we're still there after seventy five years. And I mean And they had Tracks. That came in there with buggies on top of the tracks, like a little train cars. And just stacked them in there like they were cords of wood or just debris and went right into the ovens.

I'll tell you something. That was one of the most uh Brutal Scenes I've ever done in my life. I mean, it was a. shock to my system on how anyone could do that. That's what happens When there is no father.

Son and Holy Spirit. That's what happens to human beings, and that's what they'll do to each other. Therefore, you just start there. When we went to uh the Beaches of Normandy. that part of the documentary, they wanted people to see that all of those guys, those young men that died that shed their blood coming across that beach.

When you're standing on that beach and you're looking at those bluffs where those guns are just lined. raining down fire on you. And they did not come to conquer. This was in France. They came to liberate.

And the price they paid was blood. And it was worthy of note at that point that we explained to them. It took blood. And it and freedom is never free. There's always a price that's paid.

And therefore, it points people to Jesus, the Son of God, who died on the cross and shed his blood for us all. to remove our sin. And on top of all that, in a three day period, Solve our other problem, physical death. and raised us from the dead, So in some points During the documentary, it was a humbling thing. Standing on Mars Hill where the Apostle Paul stood.

I memorized Act 17, that speech he gave, and when I gave it, Paul to thousand years earlier our brother gave that speech at To the Areopagus, all those great minds and scholars of that particular day in Greece. and he introduced Christianity to him, When he gave that speech Fast forward two thousand years later, I quoted that speech and I looked around. before I started talking and they set up the camera and the director got ready to go.

Well, there were visitors from all over the world that were on top of that hill looking at the ruins. Asians and all these different people from all over the world, when the director told me, and action.

Well, I started through that speech, you know. started when Paul looked up and said, I notice this When I viewed one of your objects of worship, it said to an unknown God. The one you don't know is the one I'll proclaim to you.

So I started there. Of course I raised my voice. Listen to this. When I gave that speech, Being filmed, The people that were visiting all over the world, a bunch of them. Burst out bawling.

Wow. And the director and all of them looked around the film crew and they said, Did you see that? And I said, I said, it's a powerful thing what the Apostle Paul said. He ended it up by saying, God will judge this world with justice. by the man he has appointed He's given proof of it to all men by raising him from the dead.

So when I come out with that, A lot of them shed tears. You know, if you remember. Most of them sneered, it said when they heard it, but some believed.

So there were some won that day, and Christianity was introduced to the Greeks.

So yes, it was a sobing thing to go across like when we got to France We showed what happened when they started their revolution about the same time, Our country was being founded. We said we're going to found this country, our founding fathers, on God Almighty and His Word. The French over there, Robespierre and all that bunch, were tyrants. They got rid of King Louis and Marie Antoinette, and they killed all the clergy and all the priests. They just burn them alive out there in the yard in front of Notre Dame.

And they just replace one group of tyrants with another, Though the bottom line is It it's God who has founded the United States of America, Do godly men. And it didn't take us but two hundred and two hundred years or so, it's been going on now about fifty or sixty. But we have forgotten him. And uh I think there's going to be hell to pay because of it. Do you feel it's too late for America, or if we humble ourselves and repent?

we can be spared th these these disasters. Yes. Yeah. Grip gods. My task is just to speak out and preach the gospel And love my neighbor and love the God who brought us.

So I'll tell you something, Michael. Any way you want to slice it. I do not see a downside For loving God and loving our neighbor, do you No, no, no downside.

So I'm not going to slow down, and I'm just hoping God will give the country time to repent. And uh I've asked him repeatedly, give us time to repent here. We're going to keep preaching the message here, Lord. Give us time, give us time. But I do worry about us, don't you?

Oh, absolutely. You live with this sense of holy tension. You live with this sense that the bottom could fall out at any moment, and we watch it fall out in many ways. At the same time, we know the mercy of God. The worst thing we could do is become complacent.

That's right. Losing hope is bad, but becoming complacent is deadly. A lot of people don't realize this, but every day. Each and every day, Miss K. Yeah.

She's up there right now with 40 women. She's kind of the mother hen, older woman teaching the younger ones. And these girls have some of the most horrific stories you've ever heard. They come in here by bus, have just enough money for a bus ticket. They have no place to Put their head on a pillow.

They have no vehicle They catch a bus and they come from Washington State, Arizona, and they roll in here. hair and addicts and I don't know what all have been pimping out Prostitution.

So we sit down with them, we get them on their feet and get a little food in them and And we slowly work with them. And get them into the family of God.

So that's all we do down in here when we're at when I'm either in the woods. working on duct blinds and Or we're out sitting. down with someone, pointing them towards Jesus over and over and over.

So That's basically what we do all the time. And it's a sad thing to participate in, but It's also exciting and pretty exhilarating, you know.

So, hey, and a little bit dangerous. I get a few death threats from time to time. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I've heard of those too. The fact is, though, that's how the nation changes one life at a time. You bet. And if everybody, we can be overwhelmed because things seem so hopeless and so impossible and so confused. But if we say, okay, I'm one person and I can do whatever God gives me to do.

I've got a family I can touch. I can touch God in prayer every day. I've got a neighbor, a co-worker. I can make a difference if we shine our lights and if we do what's right, regardless of cost or consequence, America can be shaken. Hey, Phil, how can people see the trailer or the movie?

They can look at uh What is it? It's www. Torch bearer. Uh the movie. They can go there and they'll give the release dates on the cities this thing is going into.

What we're trying to do, it's a brutal film, so I wouldn't take young children. I mean, it is one brutal film. because life is brutal without God. But uh I would say they need to be of age, old enough age of accountability where we know their centers. But hopefully through that, people will see the error of their ways because of this political correctness instead of biblical correctness, has really, really downgraded the society to where I'm afraid we are on the verge of collapse.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, friends, TorchbearerMovie.com. I'm looking at the website right now. I watched the trailer last night and it shook me. TorchbearerMovie.com. And hey, Phil, our monthly supporters are called Torchbearer, so you can join our club too, man.

God bless. Thanks for joining us. All right, man. We'll see you. All right.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-342. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks so much for joining us on the line of fire, 866-348-7. You've got questions. We've got answers so. That interview with Phil Robertson, yeah, pretty intense. Watch the trailer.

TorchburrMovie.com. It's a pretty intense trailer, pretty eye-opening, pretty shocking. That's the reality in world history. I started to mention something yesterday and I never finished later in the broadcast.

So I mentioned at the hotel about voice recognition. What happened was it was 12.30 at night. I had finished hanging out with a colleague in the lobby and was going up to my room and my key was not working properly.

So I told the fellow at the front desk needed to get the key reprogrammed, and he asked me if I had ID. Obviously, you've got to find out who the person is, and is it really their room or not? I sit down, my IDs in the room. But I had with me in my Bible, because I'd spoken earlier tonight, I had a card asking folks to join me in Israel with my name, you know, Dr. Brown, with my picture.

And as I'm talking to the guy, he said, Oh, I listened to you on the radio. His head was down, he was typing some things in. He said, He recognized my voice. He said, I listened to you on the radio. He said, I called in one time.

So I said, Well, we did voice recognition, man. You figured out who I was by voice recognition.

So that was kind of sweet and a little different. 866-348-7884. We start with Dawn in Kingston, Massachusetts. Thanks for joining the line of fire. Hey, Doctor Brown.

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

So uh my question has to do with um First Corinthians ten. I've listened to this guy, he doesn't believe in inerrancy, his name's Peter Enz. And he comes to a different conclusion. We talked about the I think it's the rock that follows Israel in the wilderness and he says the rock is Christ.

Well He says you look back at the Old Testament, you see there's a rock at the beginning of the journey. at the end of the journey. But there's nothing there that says that the rock literally followed them. He says that Paul got that. from a Jewish interpretation.

And so what Paul is doing is is basically reinterpreting history Through the lens of Christ.

So, my question is: what's Paul doing in there? Is he believing something that didn't happen? that this thing actually happened and that's why the Jewish tradition was there and that's why Paul's quoting it. Yeah, I appreciate what Peter Ends is seeking to do in terms of challenging what can be an overly literalistic, overly simplistic reading of scripture. where we don't have nuance and we don't understand literary genres and things like that.

But I believe he's pressing this way too far. First, what he's saying is absolutely true. That God sustained Israel in the wilderness, and they were sustained by. by the work of the Son of God on their behalf.

So 1 Corinthians 10, 4, they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Messiah. The rock was Christ.

So he is saying that that's how God sustained. He's not making a literal statement in every single place, but he's making a general statement. And what he is doing is he is appealing to a Jewish interpretation.

So there was a Midrashic interpretation that spoke of this rock that accompanied Israel in the wilderness. And he's saying, hey, Jewish interpretation speaks of that, but let me tell you that that rock was actually the Messiah. That rock was actually Jesus.

So It's perfectly legitimate. If I was looking for a place to challenge inerrancy, it'd be the last place I would go here. Paul simply referring to a well-known Jewish tradition in his day and one that the Corinthians may have even been familiar with because they would have heard teaching and preaching in the synagogue, those of them that were in the synagogue before they came to know the Messiah. And he's referring to it and saying, hey, let me tell you, though, that that rock of God's sustenance, that was actually the Messiah himself, because he is our rock. That's all.

To make more out of it than that I think is completely misplaced.

Okay, thank you. You are very welcome, sir. Thank you for the question. 86634Truth. Let's go to Miguel in Lynn, Massachusetts.

Hey, Dr. Bla, how you doing today? Doing well, thank you. Hey, um, I just had a question about Calvinism. I just wanted to know what is the the crux like versus that really compel Calvinists To that position, because I was reading a couple of verses myself.

I can't hold them up at the top of my head. But they kind of rung a bell in my mind, and that bell was Calvinism. Um and uh selection and so forth. I just wanted to know if you can kind of expound upon that real quickly. Sure.

Calvinists, if they were going to go anywhere as a starting place or feel they had the most compelling argument, they'd probably start. in the end of Romans 8. which speaks of this chain of redemption from God foreknowing And then justifying And sanctifying and glorifying people. And the perception being that God chose people in advance. And then Uh the final process glorified them as if it's already done.

And then going into Romans 9, which would then state that it's not a matter of man's will or effort, but of God's will. And if you say, well, then who can resist God's will? We're just going to end up doing what he created us to do. And then who are you to talk against God? Is the Acts going to speak against the one who made it?

And what if God has predestined some for destruction?

So they would look at those verses. I think that would be the strongest argument. They might just point to Ephesians 1, that we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world and predestined. They would find those to be powerful. They might point to a verse like Acts 13, 48 and say that as many as were appointed to eternal life believe.

So that means that those who are predestined by God, those are the ones who end up believing. They might point to John 6. Where Jesus says, no one can come to him unless the Father draws him. Of all the Father draws, he'll lose none. He'll raise them up at the last day, so that he would do the work from beginning to end.

Those would be some of the principal passages. They would point to other passages in the Old Testament that, you know, man was doing this, but God hardened the heart, God hardened the heart of Pharaoh, God hardened the heart of Rehoboam, the son of Solomon, because he was going to bring judgment.

So it was the will of God to bring judgment and things like that. And those would be verses that Calvinists would point to. But if there was any one section that probably has been the most convincing for Calvinism, it would probably be Romans 9, because the Calvinist argument would be. That the objections that are being raised are based on a Calvinistic understanding of the scriptures. In other words, that the very arguments that are unfolding and the arguments that are being responded to are the very tenets of Calvinism and of God's sovereignty.

Of course, in response, one would say that it's chosen for service as opposed to chosen for salvation, and there are other larger issues, Jew, Gentile involved. But it could well be that my dear colleague James White is riding his bike listening to this on a podcast a few days later.

So, James, if I missed a verse that you would think would be one of the strongest ones to bring, you might just say the whole Bible proves Calvinism, but I would just say, well, the whole Bible says choose, choose.

So, hey, Miguel, we're out of time. Thank you for the call. Hey. Do you know about our special resource offer this week with the Unseen Realm? Michael Heiser's Unseen Realm and our great interview and my series on angels, demons, and deliverance.

Check it out at thelineoffire.org. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome, welcome to the line of fire. It is Friday. That means you've got questions. We've got answers. Have you read my Latest article, LGBT activists are coming for your children.

Oh. I'm not talking about sexual predators. I'm talking about indoctrination. What I share in this article is shocking. I have a video with footage that is shocking.

That video is called Teaching Your Children to be Queer. By all means, check these out. Latest articles and latest videos. Go to thelineoffire.org and just click on the link. In fact, I'm just looking at the stream.org.

They've got my article and video side by side, right there, linked together.

So Trust me, this will be eye-opening, and as a parent, you'll be prompted to do what's right. Walk in love towards all, but do what is right. 866. 3487884. Let's go to Adam in Westchester, New York.

Welcome, sir, to the line of fire. Hey, good afternoon, doctor Michael Brown. Good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my phone call. You might remember that we met at your september tenth event, I believe, was the Chosen Ministries off of Central Park in Sixty Fourth Street.

You're talking about politics and I actually do. You brought up the Johnson amendment to me and handed me some literature on it. I remember meeting you. Fantastic.

Well, thank you.

I as mentioned then, I wanted to discuss the Johnson amendment. Uh it is a great example of the destructiveness of our federal income tax code. And I wanted to talk about how our nonprofits and then specifically our religious or as I put it, spiritual striving leaders are negatively affected by this legislation in this rule. You're familiar with the Johnson amendment? Yes, yes, of course.

And Donald Trump is the first major candidate to say he's going to go after that.

So let me ask you this, though. Do you feel That pastors should be speaking more about political issues from the pulpit or even endorsing candidates? Or is that a dilution of the calling? No, I believe that they definitely should. I think that our spiritual leaders are the ones who But listen, first and foremost, this country was founded on God, as I believe and as I understand.

And therefore as our educational system has completely has completely, what's the word, or doesn't educate on that. it's even that much more imperative that our spiritual striving leaders understand the founding of our country. Got it? and the principles, doctrines, et cetera. And therefore, they must do it from the pulpit.

as opposed to being ancillary to our educational system. I'm talking about K through twelve, I guess, as well as also college. then they they must unfortunately bear the the brunt of it. I mean, you have colleges like Hillsdale College that are Or tremendous and and what they're doing to educate about original Nintendo Constitution and virtues of and principles upon which this country is founded, et cetera. But they should definitely our spiritual striving leaders need to be talking about I guess, all political issues, but specifically, I'd like them to talk about the destructive nature of the federal income tax.

I'd like to add a little side conversation as we are all part of this Earthly world, and it's impossible to steer completely clear of. Um destructive force and so forth. I don't want to participate in it.

So I don't want to be... I don't want to go into a bar, get drunk and uh And participate in that activity, I could avoid going into a bar or a strip club, et cetera. Hey, Adam, tell you what, we're out of time. I do appreciate you calling in, but we are. Out of time, got a break here, but Donald Trump is the only candidate who said he's going to get rid of the Johnson amendment.

There's now a move in Congress ready to act on it. Never should have been in place. from the IRS, never should have been in place. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome to the line of fire, 866-348-7884. Hey, if you appreciate this broadcast, if you're blessed by it, join our support team. Become a torchbearer, as some of our listeners did last night at a great meet and greet in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Dollar a day makes a massive difference, enables us to speak to many more people around the world, helps us reach out to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, helps us to spread and disseminate tons of information, all for free, helps us get onto more and more radio stations and continue to broadcast on these stations. And we pour back into you in many, many ways every month.

So to find out more, go to askdrbrown.org. Just click on donate and look at the Blessings that will come your way, what we sow into you as you stand with us as monthly supporters, as torch bearers, 866-348-7-884 in Alberta, Canada. Nick, welcome to the line of fire. Hi, thanks, Dr. Brown.

You're welcome. I've got just a couple of questions for you about the Septuagint, just so I can understand it a little bit better.

So one is why do we use the Masoretic text instead of the Septuagint in our translations? Do religious Jews study and refer to the Septuagint as much as uh Christian theologians do. Is there an English translation of the Septuagint? Available, and does the Codex Sinai Aticus Old Testament portion? count as the subtler.

Yeah, a bunch of questions there. Why Do we use the Hebrew text versus the Greek?

Well, the Hebrew is the original, the Greek is the translation.

So of course that's what we use. Yeah, the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and a little bit in Aramaic. The Septuagint is a translation of that.

So you always go to the original. You don't use the translation, you use the original. We use the Septuagint for textual understanding.

Sometimes we're not sure what the Hebrew means. And we read the Septuagint, and that gives us a clue.

Sometimes there's a dispute about the original text, the wording of the original text, and the Septuagint may preserve the more original wording. And normally that'll be confirmed through other Hebrew manuscripts, manuscripts in the Dead Sea Scrolls, other ancient translations.

So it's used judiciously. For a traditional Jew, no, they wouldn't be reading Greek. They wouldn't even be thinking about it. And for a traditional Jew, the five books of Moses in the Septuagint were supernaturally inspired.

Now, this is just a myth, but a traditional Jew believes that the 70 translators of the Septuagint that they were all isolated independently and all translated the five books of Moses and came word for word with the exact same translation. That's completely bogus. It's a myth. But that's what they believe.

So that that was divinely inspired and that the rest of the Septuagint translation was not good and was hurtful. The fact is, none of it was supernaturally inspired, but it is an excellent and very helpful witness. And it It's a value for study in many ways. It also helps give insight into Jewish theological views. A couple hundred years before the time of Jesus, it was done by different Jewish scholars over a period of quite a few decades.

So it gives us insight into some of their theological beliefs, how they interpreted the Hebrew Bible, other potential textual readings, and things like that. And the Codex Sanaiticus. Sinaticus is, of course, Septuagint and a New Testament. And in fact, the Uh The Greek-speaking Christians, their Bible was the Septuagint. And since the New Testament is written in Greek, that means that for the most part, the New Testament authors were quoting from the Septuagint.

Just like, for example, when I preach, I might preach from the NIV or the ESV or the Tree of Life or another English version because I'm speaking in English to an English audience. When I'm writing a book, I'm quoting in English. If I was writing in in Hebrew, for example, and quoting the New Testament, I quoted from a Hebrew translation. If I was writing in Italian, I quote from an Italian translation.

So the New Testament writers writing in Greek quoted from the Greek translation of their day, the Septuagint. And that's why, in many cases, the New Testament text follows the Septuagint of the Old Testament. Hmm.

Okay. As for English translations, there's an older one that's readily available, but I would recommend. There's a new Septuagint translation, the Lexim translation. If you have Logos Bible software, Uh then you'll uh you'll be able to have that that just comes with it. Um there is another new English translation.

The old one was by Sir Lancelot Brenton. There is a a new one came out A few years back by Petersma and Wright. If you just get online with any online or say Amazon or Christian Books or something like that, look for a new English translation of the Septuagint of Petersma and Wright.

However, if you have Logos Bible software, you'll already have a translation into contemporary English, Lexim, L-E-X-H-A-M. All right, thank you for the call. 866-34TRUTH. Let's go to Mona in Mount Holly. Thanks for calling the line of fire.

Hi, Dr. Brown. Thank you for taking my question. According to Matthew 13, 55 and 56, this is a question that I have for a friend, which I could not answer myself. The Bible says that isn't this the carpenter's son, isn't his mother named Mary?

And aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? Fifty six says, aren't all his sisters with us?

So my question is, did Jesus have sisters and why aren't they named? Yeah. Yeah, uh well first that would be typical. that the men's names would be more prominent. just typical in the culture and if the men were better known.

His brothers. Yeah, but he had brothers and sisters, no question.

So what Matthew makes clear is that Joseph and Miriam, Joseph and Mary, had no sexual relations until the Messiah was born. After that, sh they had children, both brothers and sisters.

So they just didn't name his sisters, but he did have sisters. They're just named in the Bible. Yeah, and we know the names, you know, for example, Samson's father is Manoach. What's his wife's name? We don't know.

It's Manoach and his wife.

So that's just customary that you have that many times, that the man's name was more prominent, better known, preserved, and the women mentioned in a secondary way. One of the things that's extraordinary through the Gospels is what a prominent role women play. how important they are in the ministry of Jesus and what recognition and honor they get. And it's women who are the first ones to see him after he rises from the dead.

So they do have prominence. But this would reflect more of the culture. The guy's name is mentioned and the women not even mentioned. But absolutely. He had brothers and sisters.

Yep.

Okay, thank you. Sure thing. Thank you.

Okay. eight six six three four eight six. 7884. We go to Reef in New Brunswick, Canada. Welcome to the line of fire.

Uh hi there, Doctor Bar, how you doing? Doing well, thank you. Yeah, sorry, Dad, there was a little uh mess up with my name should be Rhys R-H-Y-S but uh yeah I have a habit of spelling it out and then S can get like confused for F so Yeah. Yeah, anyway, so my question is about. Uh Panhandling, giving to panhandlers.

I just moved to a new city and uh Re I get asked for money quite frequently. And I just wonder if you have a principal or what do you do personally when you're asked for money? I used to give without question and um I was wondering if I was just uh enabling People to get drugs, to get beer, or to get booze. Yeah, so you're just talking about somebody on the street, homeless person, asking you for help, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Although you do have legitimate needy people. on the streets who have just maybe had to run away from a difficult situation. They're not drug users, they're not alcoholics, and they're just looking for some food. That would tend to be the minority, the the great number of people that are homeless are normally going to have drug or alcohol problems.

And in many cases, if you give them money, Then you are enabling them to get a drink or to do drugs, as sad as it is. I remember one summer when I was 17 years old working in New York City. That every day I would walk out into the park and witness to these guys that were homeless. You would have called them bums. They would sit around and drink, but they'd talk with me and I'd preach the gospel to them and so on.

And they'd listen, and I'd give one of the guys a dollar each day. And towards the end of the summer, they said, you know, we've just been using you. You're a nice guy, but we've just been using you the whole summer. What do you think we're doing with the money? We tell you one thing, but we're doing something else with it.

I mean, that's the reality.

So you say, well, What if the person really has a need, or maybe the homeless person is hungry? The standard thing you always do if you want to help someone, say, hey, I'm going to get a sandwich. I'll give you half of my sandwich. Or here, I'd like to get you a slice of pizza, whatever it is, or a hot dog or something. Glad to do it.

Now, of course, there's the possibility that they may go and try to sell it. I actually seen that happen with someone I helped. But at least, you know, hey, let's sit down and eat together, share with them, and if they don't wanna do it, What can you do? You walk away and you bless them and pray for them. Thank you, sir, for asking.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome to the line of fire. Hey, friends, let me remind you to be praying for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, to be praying for Jewish people worldwide. Especially beginning this Sunday night as the shofar sounds, the trumpet blasts, the wake-up call, ushering in ten days called the days of awe in Judaism, days of repentance and soul searching and prayer that. Names would be written in the book of life for the new year. That's the prayer, that's the desire that's sent out.

Again, it's the first day of the seventh month on the biblical calendar, but in traditional Jewish calendar, it is the first day of the new year. Pray for hearts to be open, pray for deep conviction of sin. There are rabbis that I love and pray for that God would convict them of sin, would show them their desperate need for a savior, would open their hearts and their minds. If you're a Jewish person listening and you're aware of your sin and you feel it's like Yeah. It's cancer in your bones.

It's there. You can't get to it. The pain is there. The recognition is there. The guilt is there.

I'm telling you, the blood of Messiah can wash you clean. The blood of Messiah can wash you clean. He took. Your place in my place. He died for our sin.

He carried our guilt. And by his wounds, We can be healed. 866-348-7884. Let's go to Eno in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Welcome to the line of fire.

And greetings to you, PSP. And to you, Dr. Brown. I've listened to you quite a bit, so I want to say thank you for your. unadulterated uh I stand on the word.

So that's my that's the comment. The suggestion that I have um Regarding the next elect presidential election. I'll I'll I'll Give you a Uh very uh Minute piece of my background. I'm a pastor also in the Cambridge area here. Massachusetts.

And also in 2012, I also ran for the U.S. Senate seat. vacated or left uh by Senator Kennedy.

Now I'm a Christian. And uh I follow politics very closely and I encourage Christians to vote to participate because Uh there are many different dimensions where Christian can participate. But when it comes to Voting in the next election for president. I feel that some Christians are the they turn into fanaticism because If really we're looking at more issues, I I I think I have questions on on Every single presidential candidate particularly the two men candidates, representing the two political parties because On one side, you may look at Um um issues of um abortion. On another side, you can look on the issues of gambling.

Now how How many containers will we have? How many Uh where Will the whole country turn into gambling after the election?

So I think Christians, I think we've I'm encouraging Patient to really stay on their knees. And pray and ask God for direction seekers. I don't see how I would stand on a pulpit as a pastor. Say, okay, vote for this candidate or that candidate. I mean, I may have my own personal preference, but when you look at the whole picture, the whole um thing.

I think best It's basically to stay on our knees and ask God to give directions. Listen, sir, I absolutely respect that. I endorsed Senator Ted Cruz, but I don't know that I'll endorse another candidate in the future as I process things. Not that Senator Cruz let me down, I don't mean that, but just about my voi my role is to be a voice. And I will sound the alarm and I will say things that I believe to be true, whether they're popular or not.

regardless of the consequences. But if I endorse a particular candidate, will people hear my voices clearly? What if there are other differences? What if the candidate fails in certain ways? Are we then responsible for that?

And no candidate is perfect. What I would say is this, though, sir. My own conviction is that when I look at scripture and I see what he prioritizes, what God prioritizes in terms of extreme wickedness. Or things that caused him to destroy a nation, I see shedding of innocent blood, very. Very high on the list.

In fact, I could make a case for that and idolatry being the principal sins because of which God would destroy a nation. And therefore, I will warn people against voting for Hillary Clinton. My wife, Nancy, would not vote for Hillary, but under no circumstances would she vote for Donald Trump unless he became a different man. She has deep, deep reservations about his character and feels that he'd be divisive and destructive for America and could even be worse than Hillary. That's her perspective.

I respect that, and I'm not trying to recruit people to vote for Donald Trump. I'll have voices on that are for him or against him. But I do have a prophetic conviction about the shedding of innocent blood, the evil of it, and the redefining of marriage and the attack on our religious liberties, these being major issues. And therefore, from my perspective, sir, I will sound the alarm and urge people not to vote for Hillary. But trust me.

I take your words seriously. I hear them. I process them. And I will continue to do so to say, Lord, help me to be a faithful witness for you and to stand where you want me to stand and not to meddle. Where I shouldn't meddle.

So, thank you, sir. Your words do not fall on deaf ears, I assure you. And may the Lord be with you as you stand for Him in Cambridge, Massachusetts. It's what a place to be pastoring and preaching the gospel. Thank you, brother.

All right, friends, we are. Just about out of time, but I do have time. Do I have time to play this clip? Uh No, no, I'll have to I'll have to do that. Later on.

Tell you what, let's grab clip number two. Clip number two. I think we have time to play that. Listen to Michael Heiser. I like to think of it this way.

If we had an ancient Israelite sitting with us here in the room, And we asked each other and we asked that fellow, what does this or that passage mean? How do you read it? What goes off in your head when you read these words? His answer is going to be a lot different. Than what our answer would be, especially.

When we're in some text that we think is either really strange or odd or just plain weird or even scary. because of the supernatural presuppositions behind it. That's what I want readers to get.

So if you get Michael Hodge's book. Dr. Heiser is a biblical and Semitic scholar. It is called the Unseen Realm, and it takes seriously what the Bible says about what happens in this unseen realm: the world of the Spirit, who God is, and Those around him, are they other gods?

Well, they shouldn't be called gods. There's only one God.

Well, who are they? Angels, demons, other beings? You'll find it fascinating, eye-opening, and controversial. When you order the book, you'll get free with it my exclusive one-hour interview with Dr. Heiser.

As we discussed the unseen realm, and we got great, great responses to that interview. And then, along with that, my 12-hour teaching series, Popular, Clear, and Practical on Angels. Demons and deliverance oh yeah so take advantage of all of this go to ask dr brown a-s-k-d-rbrown.org to order order as many copies as you want as always we put this together at a great price and it's not too early to uh to get some holiday gifts as well and pray for us we are putting out more and more materials more and more cutting-edge videos more and more articles addressing what's happening in the world of society around us and looking to develop some new Jewish outreach tools to reach the lost sheep of the house of Israel worldwide.

So be in prayer with us. Let's stand together and make a difference. You can stand with us at askdrbrown.org. My bottom line today, the word of God is bearing fruit all around the world. Stand with him.

Claim his word and you will see results. You've got questions, we've got answers, let's do it. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

What a great day to be alive as the world continues to go crazy around us as it has been doing since the fall of man. Oh, yeah. What a great time to be alive where we can shine the light, where we can make Jesus known. People who are sick and dying, we have the antidote. It's terrible.

It's a shame. It's painful to see how messed up things are in this world. It's wonderful to know that we have the message, that we know the person who can make a massive difference and who can transform lives in a radical, dramatic, lasting way. This is Michael Brown. You are listening to The Line of Fire.

And the number to call To get in the conversation today to join the program is 866-34TRUTH-866-348-7884. Wednesday, Thursday, and now Friday. I've been coming away live from Dallas, Texas. And after this show is over, about to record a short video with some keys for reaching Jewish people with the gospel. And then, After that, flying home late tonight.

So, if you've got a question, anything you want to ask me that's appropriate for Christian Radio, if you want to challenge me on something I believe or hold to, if you need clarification, if you've just been wondering, well, what does the Bible say about this, or how do I understand this, or how do I address this issue in society? 866-348-7884 is the number to call. By the way, a totally minor. News item, but CNN reports today: female chess players protest wearing hijab at Iran World Championship. Um Some of the world's top female chess players are upset that the next World Championship will be held in Iran, where players are expected to wear headscarves.

the U. S. Women's Champion, uh Nasi Pagzi let's see, Paikidze Barnes will not be taking part in the event in Tehran next February due to her concern over the issue. You might say, well, who cares? What's the big deal?

Absolutely minor. But uh For some of them, according to this US top player that won't go, this is religious and sexist discrimination. That's their view, so they don't want to participate based on that. And I imagine chess players sometimes being somewhat eccentric. Obviously, they're brilliant.

And, you know, if you remember, if you're my age, remember Bobby Fisher, Boris Spassky, and it was a chess match around the chess match. What kind of table there's going to be, what kind of cameras will it not be cameras? Will they do this or that? And if someone's in the front row, they're trying to distract me or they're trying to put a spell on me or all these kind of crazy things.

So you might hear some of them say it's a distraction for them. I mean, I don't know. You might just think that it's going to get in the way of their thought process. But either way, just minor news I thought I'd mention to you. 866-348-7884.

And I tell you what, I've only got a short time before the break.

So we're going to come back. We're going to go straight to your questions, starting with Beverly and Todd. We're going to go straight to you on the other side of the break here. I've got an interview that I did for Laura Ingram's online magazine Life Set. And it's about LGBT issues, about bullying, how things have changed.

It's a great interview I did part one is now online today. I'm about to tweet that out.

So during the break, I'm going to tweet that out. If you're following me on Twitter, we'll post it on Facebook as well. You can follow that interview, and I think you'll find it very informative.

Okay, as soon as we come back, we go to the phones. 866-348-258. 7884, you've got questions. We've got answers. Around the new time, shake the nation, change the world.

Change the world. Give us strict to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown.

I just think of Exodus chapter 12 Verse 12, where on the eve before the death of the firstborn, God announces. to Israel. On this night, I will have victory over the gods of Egypt. God's there is being used to refer to those spiritual powers that are supportive. Of Egypt.

They are real. They're not God like Yahweh. They're not his peers. God created them too. And elsewhere, we might use the language of.

Angel or demon. Michael's done a wonderful job in terms of communicating. His message in a very interesting way. You won't be able to put the book down once you pick it up. That's Professor Tremper Longman, one of the world's top evangelical Old Testament scholars, talking about Michael Heiser's book, The Unseen Realm.

So go to thelineoffire.org, click on the link right on the home page there. You'll see it, one of the opening slides. Find out more about this very, very insightful and Eye-opening and controversial book, The Unseen Realm, and the special resource offer we have packaged together for you all this week. 866-34TRUTH. You've got questions, we've got answers.

We'll start with Beverly in Richmond, Virginia. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Yes, Dr. Brown, how are you? It's a pleasure to be on the line with you.

Well, thank you.

I just had a I had a concern as a Christian, and I sometimes tune into your station. And I kind of tuned in late today when you were talking to the gentleman from Massachusetts. Yes. And I I'm I'm concerned because I ca I can't see why that the the ministers on the on the radio or not ministers so much, but Speakers like you that are on the radio, why it is that you guys have to take such a negative connotation to what's happening in the world and in the political realm and in trying to steer people away from what they for from exercising their right to vote. and in sort of trying to indoctrinate them to vote who you think would be God's person for the White House.

Well who's the Yeah, who am I first I I'm not discouraging people from from voting, but uh who am I trying to add who am I telling you to vote for?

Well, the negative is geared towards one candidate. And even though there is some negativity towards the other, I still find that the leaning w you and other ministers and people that I hear on this It's leaning towards the person that is divisive. That does not show the love of the power. But I'm not leaning toward. Last hour, I mentioned my wife Nancy, the closest person in the world to me, the most influential person in the world to me, who said under no circumstances could she vote for Donald Trump.

She feels he'd be divisive for the nation. She believes he'd be worse than Hillary. She does not trust his character and does not see how a Christian could vote for him. That's her own opinion, and she asked me to share it freely.

So I've done that. She knows that different. But, Beverly, I have a moral obligation to the unborn. I have a moral obligation to the innocent ones to shout from the rooftops: do not vote for Hillary Clinton. She stands for the shedding of innocent blood.

I could care less about politics. I'm not a Republican. I'm a registered independent. I have no party affiliation whatsoever. But for the sake of the unborn, no one, Beverly, Beverly, Beverly, please let you ask me a question.

I will shout from the rooftops. Do not vote for Hillary Clinton. She advocates the shedding of innocent blood in the womb. She is the most radical pro-abortion candidate in our nation's history. She stands against our religious freedoms.

She stands with those that want to take away our rights. She stands for the radical redefinition of marriage, and on and on. I will shout from the rooftops: don't vote for Hillary Clinton. I could care less about the consequences. I'm going to be obedient and do the right thing.

Oh, you're absolutely right. And I do shout from the mountaintops. of the things that I that I value in my Christian belief. And I do that also with the same in the same Breath. by telling them that God loves them and he wants to save them.

And I think that your platform is so much more effective when you're shouting don't vote for Hillary because she's a whatever it is, You know, she's going to, you know, do and whatever. In the same light, I think that you should be shouting that there is a God that came to save everyone, that it was born in sin, is still living in sin, and there is hope. In Jesus. I just think that your platform is so effective in reaching people because I just turned into your radio station, I'm a Christian.

Somebody could turn in and they could hear you say, Well, don't vote for Hillary and tell them all the reason why, and then you offer the hope. That's in Christ. But I did. I did that last hour, quite explicitly. I gave an altar call.

I gave a clear altar call. You gave a cult call. I talked to you. Like I said, I tune in late. But Beverly, hang on, hang on.

And I wrote an article. that I posted out every way that I know how. I wrote an article. Uh, asking, do we have the love of Christ for Hillary Clinton? And I shouted that out as loudly as it can.

But here's the thing: I have two hours of radio every day. All right, I write articles almost every day we put out videos. I cannot bring the same message every day. throughout the two hours and repeat myself. I gave a clear altar call for the lost.

Last hour, Beverly, I talked about how we have all sinned and fallen short, how we can't get rid of the guilt, and how we're going to have to give and that the only one that can save us is Jesus, and we need the blood of the Messiah. I have specifically called for prayer for Hillary Clinton. For eight years, I called for prayer for Barack Obama.

Okay, so I'll continue to do that. And yes, I'll use the platform as God calls me to, but I have to. Be obedient and do what's on my heart. Whether I'm right or wrong, I'm going to have to give account to God for that. And yes, by all means, pray for Hillary Clinton, pray for her salvation.

Of course. And normally, whenever we talk about abortion, we always reach out to those who've had abortions. But if you happen to miss one part of the program, That means someone else also missed when I was warning against Hillary.

Okay. Um and I don't and I don't did it I'm doing it now in response to your question.

Okay, so yes, we use the platform to proclaim the gospel, and we will shout out. what we feel are warnings. And urge people to do the right thing. And look, if my goal is to get Donald Trump elected, why am I quoting my wife? as to all the reasons she could never vote for him.

And she's asked me to quote her freely. and told me to tell the the world if I want to that she feels I'm too open to the possibility of him being president.

So, if my goal is to get somebody elected, that's not the best way to do it. But I will be obedient. And yes, we proclaim the gospel. We'll continue to. And if you listen over a period of weeks, if you're able to, you'll hear on a very regular basis a message going out of the cross and drawing people to Jesus.

But thank you. We know and agree that that is the number one priority to make him known. Thank you so much for calling in. And I believe you're motivated in the right way to do so.

So thank you. 866-348-7884. We go to Todd in Seagrove, North Carolina. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Thank you, Dr.

Brown. My question has to do with the partaking of communion. The denomination that I used to be a member of and some other ones that I've heard of have changed their method of administering communion to what they call the intention method. Have you heard of this? the intention method.

Now tell me what they mean by it.

Okay, what it is, is the pastor and his assistant. What they do, they had a. a loaf of French bread in a container of grape juice, and the people come up front and pinch off a piece of the bread and dip it in the juice. And it's like, you know, for a while I did that, but just it got to the point where it just something just didn't ring right with me because just. you know, I think it violates Both the spirit and the letter of what Communion is all about, and I just wanted to.

get your input about If one I believe is right.

Well, first thing, if something troubles you in your own spirit, you have to go with that. You you have to if something disturbs you, bothers you, then by all means uh If you continue to pray and you feel that way, Then you go with that. I have seen that here and there. I don't know that I've heard it referred to in that way. I have seen it here and there.

It's rare. What I've normally seen would be that you've got the loaf and people pull a piece of a loaf. I've even seen where they drink out of a corporate cup and you've got ushers there with a handkerchief and they wipe it off after everyone takes their drink. But yeah, for me, there is. a separation between the two.

I I know it's what we're used to. In New Testament times, it would have been part of a feast. It would have been part of a A meal, a love feast together after a gathering, and in that context, as they were eating and drinking, they would then celebrate the Lord's death. But yeah, to me, there is the way it's passed down, Jesus at the Last Supper, and then Paul relating it in 1 Corinthians 11, and first this, then this. And to me, it is useful to talk about each part, to meditate on it, and to have separation between them.

So, yeah, I'm with you. on that in terms of Not the way it is, as you say, letter and spirit. I don't think it's the end of the world. I don't think God's going to say, well, that doesn't count for people. Because the goal again is you remember his death.

That's the big thing. Remember his death until he comes. Thank you, sir, for calling us. They change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Hmm.

Welcome friends to the line of fire 866-348-7 Eight, eight, five. Four is the number of the call. You've got questions, we've got answers. Let me grab some email questions here.

Okay, no name on this one. I will give you the short version of my situation in question because I can be incredibly long-winded.

Now, by the way, sometimes people say that, and it's like a 10-page letter, but this is only a couple of paragraphs.

So, good job in sharing a serious story in a concise way.

So, I was in a sexually abusive relationship about four years ago. And I'd had a history of self-harm for years before that relationship, so obviously that habit got much worse after this relationship. But I've been cut-free for nearly a year. Yay. Yet now that I've been led to God by a much better man who is my current boyfriend, I find that the initial feelings from the abuse and rape did not heal with my self-harm recovery, and in fact I've begun pulling away from my boyfriend due to the feelings and memories resurfacing so strongly I sometimes feel as if I'm drowning in them.

I'm wondering if this is something that runs deeper than simple psychology, since I had thought for some time that I'd let this go, and if perhaps it is a spiritual problem with which I should be consulting God for answers then. And how would I go about letting go of these things? Have I sinned somehow and need forgiveness, or is it strength I should pray for? I do not know what to do, but I do not want to pray in ignorance. I apologize if this is too personal, if it was a bit long, but I appreciate your show and strongly felt like I should seek out an opinion from someone who seems to know our Lord much better than I do.

Thank you for your time. God bless. First, Thank you for sharing that. And and being open to Communicate that with me. That's the first thing.

Second thing, again, you shared a very painful, difficult issue very concisely and very clearly.

So, thank you for doing that. And thirdly, there is There's nothing wrong with you like you're doing something wrong or you sinned. Jesus said that he came to heal the brokenhearted. There are often wounds that we carry that are very, very deep in our lives. And that mere self-will, mere.

uh mental assent i'm going to do this i'm going to do that that's not enough there are times when there are real spiritual strongholds. where there's something we think we've kicked the habit and we're free only to find out that it's just lurking there. There can be demonic. uh power at work. The good news is in Jesus there's complete victory, there's complete wholeness.

In Jesus, we don't need to live in bondage. In Jesus, we don't need to live completely broken. We can be made whole in Him. I would privately cry out to God for deliverance and healing. I'd ask him to reveal the depth of the wounds.

and you bring complete healing. And I cry out to him. asking for Freedom from every demonic power, every demonic stronghold.

Okay? That's number one. Number two. I would, if you don't have a breakthrough in a short period of time where everything just turns dramatically and you find wholeness and you even find ways to renew your mind and you find destructive patterns that you can now work against, if that doesn't happen in a short period of time, I would absolutely seek godly counsel. If you've got a pastor of a congregation or a couple that's good in counseling, I would ask if you could get with them so that they could pray with you.

Many times, someone from the outside can do a better job of having insight into what's going on in us, better understanding some of the struggles. And through that, they can help bring liberty to us. They can get to the root of things and help us see them.

So yeah, there are often things that are very deep. There could be memories inside of us. There could be spiritual strongholds. By God's grace, there can be freedom. I'd also continue to do my best to renew my mind with the Word, keep taking the Word in and doing my best to conform my thoughts to what's in the Word and even speak the things that the Word says about me, to speak those things forth, to continue to renew my heart and mind, that my life would line up with the Word.

May the Lord grant you complete, absolute freedom and wholeness, and be assured. There are many who've walked in your shoes that are completely whole and strong and free, and they've been so for many years. Joey, let's grab clip number five. five. This is Michael Heiser and I were talking about Satan.

on the wand of fire earlier this week. Clip number five. In the Bible, we know about Satan. We know that at a certain point there was a fall. Does Isaiah 14 allude to it?

Does Ezekiel 28 allude to it? And what about the picture of Satan in Revelation 12 with seven heads? And then the reference in the Psalms to Leviathan, multi-headed, the twisting serpent in Isaiah 27. And ancient Near Eastern iconography where you have these seven-headed deities. I mean, what actually happened behind the scenes?

Yeah. Yeah, this this is language again to the ancient Israelite that would have meant something, not because they believe that there are Sky monsters that can sort of land and take material form, and God had to go into combat with them. their metaphors and symbols that communicate A spiritual battle, in other words, a spiritual enemy. Who opposes God. And God does do battle in the spiritual world, He's a spirit being.

And, you know, to us it looks like, you know, We we don't know what to do with it. And our propensity, again, because we're told, you know. Interpret the Bible literally, seek no sense when they're, you know, the first sentence is, you know, make sense and all that, all these little axioms that we get. Again, an ancient Israelite would have read about Leviathan, and they would have known, again, what. That meant because that was such a familiar uh character uh in in Canaanite literature and Canaanite religion.

what they had been taught, what the Canaanites believed. And of course, since they live in proximity to the Israelites. you're going to have conversations with your neighbors about religious things And so that's going to be their story of how the forces of chaos were. Put under control and which God is the one responsible for giving us an ordered place to live. You know, the the Bible includes these things.

to often take shots at them. Uh and and to again equate those things with wrong theological ideas or To dismiss the deities that are given credit in these creation stories. And once that happens, those symbols can get repurposed. I mean, you look at Revelation twelve, You know, you have the dragon with seven heads. Again, that comes from somewhere.

We have imagery like that in in Daniel, for instance. And so that's designed to take the reader's mind back to the Daniel story. And what does it symbolize there?

Well, it has to do with these four beasts, and the last one is just horrific. That one is is going to give way to the kingdom of God. Again, A lot of this stuff is designed to draw attention to spiritual combat. and also places where that combat and its ramifications are discussed In the Old Testament, and of course, also the New Testament. New Testament repurposes a lot of this kind of stuff for that reason.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely clear from Dr. Michael Heiser, from his book, The Unseen Realm.

So, some years back, I really got interested in what the Bible said about spiritual warfare, and I decided to go through the New Testament and check out every reference to angels and demons, and was really surprised. I knew it was there, but surprised to see how many references there were to demons and demonic activity, and angels as well. And then what our role was as believers in dealing with these demonic forces.

So my teaching series, Angels, Demons, and Deliverance, on audio, together with the book, The Unseen Realm, and the great one-hour interview I did with Dr. Haji, you just heard an excerpt there, all at a great price on the website, askdrbrown.org. Order as many copies as you like. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks so much for joining us on the line of fire 866-348-7. 884 is the number to call. You've got questions. We've got answers. I told my friends that were with me last night in Dallas what a great intimate meeting we had, a meet and greet, just the turnout I was expecting.

And It was a fun time. We got to do live QA. I got to ask you questions about the broadcast. I appreciate the many gracious words that were spoken. But there's one neat story that I want to share with you, and then we're going to go to the phones.

You've got questions, we've got answers, anything. Whatsoever, that is appropriate to ask on Christian radio. The sky's the limit, the phone lines are open.

So there was a woman who came in during the meet and greet last night for our DFW listeners, especially on KDKR and our other great stations that were on. And I think most listen on FM 91.3.

So a woman came in. And she referenced at a certain point in the show that she wasn't familiar with, my broadcast.

So I was wondering why she was there. But folks were asking me questions about LGBT issues in society. And I asked the folks that were there, you know, just a small group, a few dozen people, and I asked them, how many of you, since listening regularly to my broadcast, taking my materials, have a greater love for those who identify as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender? Virtually every hand went up, which I knew. I mean, I fully expected that.

And I mentioned that someone said we teach what we know, but we reproduce who we are.

So you're just getting what's in my heart. You're getting who I am, what God's put within me, that love that's there in the midst of me standing against gay activism and things.

So this woman was very heartened to hear that. And then wanted to tell the story about her son, 27 years old, and. You know, great kids. They have a great relationship. He's in military intelligence.

And he is now, quote, married to his partner that he met in the midst of his work. And she showed me a picture of her son and his partner. And of course she prays for him, prays for his salvation. In his view, hey, what he's doing is fine in God's sight. The point of this, though, the point of this is simple.

and the reason I'm telling the story. I found out afterwards from my assistant Dylan that she... Uh didn't even know the meeting was going on. She lives alone. She was feeling lonely.

And she decided to go over to the church building, Gateway Church. I'd spoken for them at their main campus Wednesday night on these moral and cultural issues for their equip service. And then they opened up a room for us in one of their campuses, North Richland Hills. They opened up a room for us.

So it was Gateway Church, North Richland Hills. But nothing else was going on in the building. She was lonely and decided to just show up at the church building. to see if anything was going on to be around other believers. Walks in, and we're all the way in the back behind a curtain in this smaller room, which was that was the room we were planning to be in.

She poked her head around, she first just saw men, and then she realized there were others in there. There were couples and families and single women and things like that. And now she comes in, and what does she hear me talking about? But people having a greater love. Those who identify as gay and lesbian, as a direct result of the ministry of this, so she realized she was in the right place.

And it was further encouragement for her to keep praying for her son. I said, key thing is you keep that great relationship with him and you pray for him in private. And I can't tell you how many times during the Brownsborough Revival in Pensacola, Florida, where I had the privilege of serving as a leader from 96 to 2000, I can't tell you how many times we would hear people getting baptized. And sometimes guys bigger than me, I mean, you know, six, four, 300 pounds, big guy, strong guy, and he'd break down and cry and he was telling his story. And he was in jail.

He was running from God. He goes, But mama kept praying. Mama kept praying. Lo and behold. Lo and behold, he got directly, radically transformed.

So keep praying. Moms, dads, keep praying. Kids, pray for your parents. God will answer prayer. God will change hearts and lives.

We come back, we're going straight to the phones. Change the world. Change the world. Oh, God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome friends to the Line of Fire broadcast 866-348. 7884. Is the number to call. Let's go to Oklahoma. Zach, welcome to the line of fire.

Hi, Dr. Bronlink. Yeah, I can. Oh well. Are you familiar with Lisa Miller from Uh yes, I believe so.

Well I'm uh I'm eighteen years old. I'm a first year college student. uh it might be English class here in a few hey Zach you're fading I I need you to get close to the phone and speak up okay? Oh, uh okay, well uh years ago she wrote this um artic article making this a biblical uh case for gay marriage and we're my uh English uh professor gave us uh this as an assigned reading to have a That discussion about Out in a class here in a couple days, and one of her here one of her arguments is. This that the Bible was written for a world so unlike our own, it's impossible to apply these rules.

uh face value to ours Said that it endorsed slavery, that it recommended the death penalty for adulterers, that provides. contemporal uh shelter for anti-semites, and there was also polygamy. I I want to know how you would respond to this. Yeah, so first thing is: is she. Saying then, throw out the Bible when it comes to homosexuality, or is she trying to say?

we're going to use the Bible correctly.

Well Another word in other words, Zach. If she's saying the Bible can't apply to today, That's one thing. If she's claiming she has the right interpretation of the Bible, that's another thing entirely. But all of these things have been dealt with over and over and over. There's not a new argument she's raising.

The New Testament Environment, the Greco-Roman world was shockingly similar to our world today. When the New Testament plainly taught against homosexual practice, it was completely counter-cultural in the Greco-Roman world. When it called for sexual purity for men and women, it was counter to the world of that day. In other words, it was just as different then. as it is today.

The world of Paul, say the world of the Romans, the Corinthians, was very similar to the world that we live in today. And the biblical council was flatly against uh those things. Zach, when do you need to respond to this this uh article? Um Tuesday. Tuesday.

Okay. Let me ⁇ I've written a whole book called Can You Be Gay and Christian, but it'd be a little bit late to get that to you.

So let me recommend a few things. Do you have a pen where you can jot some things down? Yeah. Okay. Uh the best single website to go to The number one scholar on the Bible and homosexuality, a friend of mine.

Robert Gagnon, you want to go to Rob Gagnon, R-O-B-G-A-G. N O N Rob Gagnon dot net And When you go there, you'll have many, many. Um Articles there. In fact, you will have a direct response from Rob Gagnon to Lisa Miller.

So here's how you find it, okay? Just do a Google search for this. Robgagnon dot net.

So R O B G A G N O N dot net, and then the words Lisa Miller. You don't need to put quotes around them or put them together. Rob Gagnon dot net, and then the words Lisa Miller. and you'll get a direct demolishment of, or demolition, I should say, of her terribly weak army. arguments in her Newsweek article about eight years ago.

So that'll give you all you need right there. If you want a teaching that'll give you further understanding, if you take about an hour to watch it, just go to YouTube, put in my name, And then can you be gay and Christian?

So go to YouTube. Put in Michael Brown, Can You Be Gay and Christian? And you'll see a sermon or two that I've preached on that where I go through what the Bible actually says on these issues and address some of the common Objections. But that one link I gave you, Robgagnon.net. and then just search for Lisa Miller.

You'll have a direct response to her article that will demolish her faulty positions, okay?

Okay. Okay. Thank you, Dr. Brown. I think We should have.

or Christians. Today we're Like Like you you're doing a Doing such a wonderful job.

Well, hey, Zach, you keep pressing into the Lord, stand strong, and never feel intimidated by the professors.

Some of them are very sincere, well-meaning people.

Some of them really come after us because of our faith. Obviously, there's an agenda here, but don't be intimidated. And offer the professor, if the professor pushes back, say, well, you know a biblical scholar who'd gladly engage in a Skype dialogue right there in the classroom. Would you be open? The pro would the professor be open to that?

All right, Zach, God bless you. Keep pressing in. 866-348-7884. Let's go to Anthony in Dallas. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hi, Dr. Brown. How you doing? Doing well, thank you. Um So I know that a lot of political parties have their platform, and it goes one direction or the other, and it can have.

Things that are in line with biblical principles and out of line with biblical principles. And recently, you've made it very clear. That you are completely against Hillary Clinton based on a number of issues, but one primarily being abortion. My question is, how do you how How does one Pick a topic that is I guess non negotiable. I mean, w when she's trying to help people, Through different uh sometimes socialist uh platforms and and whatnot.

The the the Ideas to help people, and when she's taking nuclear arms off the table, I mean, what makes it where abortion is so strong? What's the. How do you decide what platforms to vote biblically on and which ones to kind of okay, we'll accept this one. Yeah, very simple. It's the Bible that dictates that to me.

That as I've read scripture over and over and over for decades. I see there are certain things because of which God says I'm not going to forgive. I'm not going to forgive the nation. It's gone too far. Uh and obviously the sin of idolatry is is always terrible for Israel.

But one thing you'll see coming up over and over and over and over is shedding the innocent blood, especially the blood of children. over and over and over and over. And when you have over 50 million babies aborted, I adamantly oppose Barack Obama for those same reasons. That that alone would mean that I cannot vote for that candidate.

Now, frankly, I don't think her policies are good at all. I would absolutely not trust her as commander-in-chief. I don't believe the democratic policies have helped the poor. I believe that they have further enslaved the poor rather than empowered them.

So I'm not with her on her policies either. It's not like she was going to save so many lives in so many wonderful ways. And on the other hand, she would advocate abortion. No, across the board, I would take issue with her policies. If you just read through the prophetic books and look at where the sin of shedding innocent blood Uh It gets placed.

Bloodshed pollutes the land. Numbers 35. The only thing. that can undo the pollution is the blood of the one who shed it, hence life for life.

So we have massive pollution of our land, defilement of our land through the sin of abortion. And there are quotes from Mother Teresa that I believe are accurate, that once you have that sin, it brings, to paraphrase, just the moral decline in every other way. That when you have mothers, yes, it may be for some an anguishing decision, some not so anguishing, but when they choose to exterminate life in the womb. uh that choice that they've made uh Is you know, her thing is what more, what worse could happen when mothers are doing this with their own children? When you add into the fact that Hillary Clinton is radically radical.

Pro-homosexual to the point that she would absolutely side against our religious liberties and freedoms, that she has offended African leaders across the continent. By pushing as Secretary of State that they must embrace the goals of gay activism, otherwise be punished by America.

So she's telling them what they're going to have to let their children learn and how marriage is going to have to be redefined, caused outrage in many nations all over Africa. When you have that, those two, and then with that, the real assault that will come on our religious liberties, under no circumstances could I vote for it.

So, again, when I look at scripture, I see the importance of marriage and family. I see the heterosexual foundation in Scripture and the strength of opposition that God has to other practices and redefinitions of marriage. It's not even countenanced in Scripture that two men could marry or two women could marry. There's even Jewish tradition that says that was one of the sins that caused the flood. was was two men marrying or something like that.

But again, just go through scripture about the shedding of innocent blood. I have an article on that. If you just go to askdrbrown.org, click on the digital library and just type in blood, you'll see my article on Hillary Clinton, on the shedding of innocent blood. To me, it's non-negotiable. Ain't the world It's fire we want for fire we Please extend the fire.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks for joining us on the line of fire. You've got questions, we've got answers. Let's go to Travis in High Point, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. Hey Michael, you got the best show on the radio.

I tell you you and the Bible answer, man. I wish you were. Good. My buddy Hank, well thanks for the kind words. No problem.

My wife actually, I'm always a day late. Listen to the podcast. Recording 'cause my wife Called me and said, Yeah. The Michael Brown show today. And the Michael Eisner guy, that is the Logos guy.

Michael Heiser. Yep.

Okay. The interviews I've been hearing there's some old stuff and I've heard other interviews he's done with other people too. I just I just don't agree with a lot of this stuff, but I'm I'm gonna I think Monday y'all talked about John 10, and he said that Jesus is talking about. you know, the other gods from the divine council or whatever. And he said he specifically wasn't saying that he was the Son of God.

But and then y'all were talking about no no he did he did say he was the son of god In the podcast, I've listened to it, I backed it up. He B Jesus yes, absolutely. Jesus says That he is the Son of God. And uh and In chapter 10, verse 36. Oh, you're right.

That he was the son of God. Right, he was sent. Yeah, so let me just read the passage so folks will follow the discussion here.

Okay? Yeah, so. They say to him, We're going to stone you for blasphemy because you, being a man, make yourself God. Jesus answered them, It is not written in your law, I said you are gods.

So Psalm 82. If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came and scripture cannot be broken, do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, you are blaspheming, because I said, I'm the Son of God.

So, in other words, the The way that that might be interpreted is: hey, if the Israelites were called gods, why are you getting upset with me for saying I'm the son of God? But then that would almost be diminishing who Jesus was. Just like, yeah, you're all gods and I'm the son of God. What's the big deal? So he was saying it, he believed it meant more than that, which is an interesting interpretation then that you've got to use this book for support.

Yeah, go ahead. I'm with you a lot more than I was with what he said. I took this passage as. as they are plural is in a trinity, but feels singular. And how can you You know, how can he call him God?

And if he's the father, like he says in verse 36, then how can he not have the son and not be the son of God? That is all Always been what it means to me, but he specifically said that he was not saying the Son of God. when and he started talking about the other God. Then it was misstated. He absolutely was saying that Jesus was proclaiming himself the Son of God.

There's no question. That Jesus was proclaiming himself the Son of God. Michael Heiser believes that, and I believe that's what he was saying. You should go check it out. He really puts himself in an in an authority.

Above the barb we can listening the way he worded it. He says he said in your interviews That he that nobody No. The Hebrew scriptures more. more than him. He is the authority.

Yeah. I mean, I appreciate it. I'm sure he doesn't believe that. He would never say that. He's a biblical scholar.

When you're a scholar, you realize how little you know. No, the only thing that he said was that he actually went through every word of the King James. And every word, I think of the NIV, and he tagged those so that each word he said, here's the Hebrew behind it, here's the Greek behind it, here's the form of the word, here's the form of the verb, which was a unique thing, which gives you an incredible intimacy with the text and closeness with the text.

So all he was saying was that he's gotten to do something that very few get to do that will really get you thinking about every single word. That's all. But he's just you know, like he said, he read my my work on the Repha'im and it changed some of his views on it.

So he's the last thing he's doing is saying that he is no, no, he certainly he didn't mean that. I can assure you, if he felt that way, I never would have had him on my show, trust me. Hey real quick, my wife is coming from resp perspective. She is coming from a huge family of Mormons. And when you get talking about And he was talking about above.

Angels and demons, you can talk about something else, the low creator. But he said the Typically he does mean God. You know, that gets really touched to you. Yeah, her Yeah, yeah. Oh, trust me, I understand.

I understand in that context what she's responding to, and how what she's hearing him say. Could play into Mormon theology or Mormon belief, fully understand that processing it through that template. All he's saying is, for example, when Moses said, Who is like you among the gods? that he actually meant it. That there is no God in the ancient world who's actually like Yahweh.

Or, for example, in Exodus 12, 12, Professor Tremper Longman talks about this. When God says, I'm going to bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt, they were spiritual powers that the people worshipped. Paul identifies them as demonic powers.

So in terms of the demons, but they were called gods in ancient Israel. Yeah. that they were a Angels and demons, they were God. And that's, and you're approaching a different gospel when you get into that. No, no, but they're called, but that's his point.

See, that's his whole point, Travis. There is only one God in terms of the creator of the universe.

Okay, God with a capital G. But the same word that's used for the one true God, Elohim. Is also used for false gods. They are called Elohim in the plural or Elim in the plural. In other words, They are called gods.

What does it say in 2 Corinthians 4:4? Satan, the God of this age. has blinded the minds of those who believe.

So, Satan is a God to people. That's the whole point. There's only one God in terms of the creative universe, but your argument. It's not with Michael, it's with the terminology of the Hebrew scripture. That was his whole point.

Were you not arguing a while ago that? The dragons were gods and that the Leviathan were gods. I mean, that's that's getting to other stuff. No, no, they're demonic powers whom the people worshipped as gods. And they were in the category of false gods, but they were still.

Here's the point: they were not always called false gods, they were just called gods. GODS, and the whole polemic was they are not really gods. Because the only God is the creator. The big thing, Travis, is all he's saying is when the Bible uses that terminology, it wasn't afraid to use it. That's the world it comes from, but there's only one creator, only one who's truly known as God and should be worshipped as God.

And the others are not really gods. They are demons or fallen angels or whatever they are. But how are they referred to as gods? That's the only thing. cell phone angels I agree with you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so Travis, the only thing is, again, just to understand. That's how they are referred to. As gods in the Bible, like Satan, the God of this age. That's the term that Paul uses because people worship him and follow him as God.

So should Paul not have used that phrase and called Satan the God of this age? Does that bring confusion that there are many gods? No, no, we know what he meant by it. And I think that's the context. But Travis, I understand your point, especially from the viewpoint of Mormonism and your wife there.

But be assured, Michael Heiser does not think that he is the world's foremost biblical authority or scholar. And his whole thing is just trying to get us to... Accept the reality of what scripture says. Follow the scriptural testimony. Hey, Travis, thank you for the call and for the good words.

I appreciate it. Friends, we're out of time. But find out about the unseen realm by going to thelineoffire.org. A great resource offer. My bottom line, many things we can differ on, but let us major on the majors and do our lives to glorify.

Okay.