Sobering Thoughts on the Cost of Sin; Expect Conflicts When You Follow Jesus; and Three Special Interviews

So ask the now disgraced former Governor of Alabama if his affair was worth it. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I'm not here to throw stones. I'm not here to condemn.

I'm not here to mock. I'm not here to put someone down. I am here. I'm here to give a cautionary warning to everyone listening. This is Michael Brown.

Thanks for joining us today on the line of fire: 866-34TRUTH-866-348-7847. eight eight four. The Governor of Alabama Also a medical doctor, Robert Bentley. After decades of distinguished service and Is now stepping down and is absolutely disgraced. And um Uh What happened to him?

Well, sex scandal. Sex scandal. Because of which he has now stepped down, probably should have done it much earlier, stepped down as governor. He has pleaded guilty to two misdemeanors. He said that he will never seek public office again.

This is part of a plea deal. Uh he will waive all retirement benefits. perform a hundred hours of community service in his capacity as a medical doctor, surrender more than $50,000 in fines, reimbursements, and campaign funds. And think of this. Think of this.

For the rest of his life he's an older man already. For the rest of his life he'll carry this with him. For the rest of his life, this burden is upon him. For the rest of his life, When you think of him. you will also think of sex scandal.

His name will forever in this world. be associated with that. Not Simply A matter of Well, he led. He wasn't the best leader. He was a good leader.

All that goes out the window. All that goes out the window. Because of a sex scandal. Because of the fair. And the big question Is was it worth it?

Was it worth it? The first moment that he and this gal started to think about each other in wrong ways. The first moment That he and And this woman. began to entertain ideas about each other. If you could fast forward.

and show him resigning from governor. How hard it is to become a governor of a state. If you could fast forward and show him resigning from being governor. if you could fast forward, and show him being disgraced waiving all retirement benefits. bringing down potentially his his party, his ideals with him, shaming his his wife and children.

If you could fast forward and plus the woman and everything she will suffer as a result of this. Fast forward and say, Okay, you still want to do it No, no, no, no, no, no Why? Because it's not worth it One of the guaranteed things about sin Is that not worth it? It may offer you a lot, but in the end it's going to bite. and whatever it gives you.

Satisfaction. Excitement. Power Release Whatever it brings you, some kind of pseudo-peace or joy. Whatever it brings you. The bike is worse.

Then what it brings you. As the old saying goes, sin will take you further than you plan to go. It'll keep you longer than you plan to stay. It'll cost you more than you plan to pay. Yeah.

It's never worth it.

So I I want to step back and take away Uh some constructive lessons for all of us. based on the fall of this leader. What can we learn?

so that we don't end up destroying our own lives, destroying our marriages, destroying our families, destroying our reputations. What can we learn from this? Also, I'm going to look at some of the words of Jesus in Matthew 10. Consider the cost of following the Messiah. We'll look at some of the ancient Jewish background.

And yes. We're in the Passover season right now. We'll talk about that some more as well. 866-34TRUTH. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Manishtanahalai Lahaza. Me call Hallelujah.

Why is this night different from all other nights? Question that is asked about Passover. This is Michael Brown. Welcome to the line of fire. Jews around the world celebrating the Passover season now.

And it works out this week that the way I believe it should work out, that the death and resurrection of the Messiah, Easter weekend, this is celebrated in conjunction with Passover. One and the same event, the deliverance from Egypt, the deliverance from sin, the Passover Lamb, Messiah or Passover Lamb, one and the same event. And therefore, we shouldn't have two separate holidays, in my humble opinion, but rather. We should celebrate the Messiah's death and resurrection in the midst of the Passover season. As is happening this year.

866-348-7-884. I'm going to open the phone lines wide. If you have a question of any kind, you want to ask me, a comment, you'd like to make an agreement or differing with something I've said over the days. Phone lines are open: 866-348-7477.

So Again, my intent is not to throw stones at Governor Robert Bentley.

Now. resigned in disgrace from His position as Alabama. He was the 53rd governor of Alabama. When Lieutenant Governor Kay Ivey was sworn in last night as the 54th governor, she said, Today is a dark day in Alabama, but it's also one of opportunity. I ask for your help and your patience as together we steady the ship and improve Alabama's image.

So think of this. Think of this, all right? Mm-mm. It This not only brings reproach to the governor. Governor Bentley.

His sex scandal. It brings reproach to his whole family. Tragically, right? Even though they may have been absolutely guiltless in every way, brings reproach to the whole family. Not only so.

It brings reproach to the State of Alabama. Today is a dark day in Alabama. We have to improve Alabama's image. We have to steady the ship. Why?

Because somebody as in fair. Because somebody can't control their sexual and romantic desires. Or two people. in this case. Again, I'm not here to condemn.

I'm talking about this because one of the first lessons you learn is this could happen to anybody. King David in the Bible, a man after God's own heart. Outside of Jesus, no one who walked on this earth has his name mentioned more than David over a thousand times in the Bible. And we sing his psalms, and pray his psalms, and read his psalms to this day. And yet, he has a terribly destructive season in his life.

because of sexual immorality, because of adultery, which then leads him to commit murder. And it brings further judgment on David and his kingdom. And there's a real decline in the kingdom of Israel in the years after that. His son Solomon. called the wisest man who ever lived to get outside of the Messiah himself.

The wisest man who ever lived, who gives us powerful warnings against sexual immorality in the book of Proverbs, he himself commits idolatry. He himself has his heart turned away from the Lord, and the kingdom is taken from him in the days of his son Rehoboam. There's a terrible split. And a lot of it goes back to his sexual sin. Nehemiah 13 even says, look, it happened to Solomon.

This is warning for all of us. And it's not evil women who seduce these innocent men. No, it's sinful men and sinful women committing sinful acts. And prominent Christian leaders. over the decades of the twentieth century and into the twenty first century.

Have destroyed their ministries, or discredited their ministries, or greatly blemished their ministries through sexual sin, and not only so. have brought reproach to the name of the Lord. and have hurt the people of God. damaged the reputation of the gospel, discouraged others, cause others to lose hope, It's not worth it. Friends, we've got to step back.

Maybe you're in the midst of an affair right now. Maybe you're addicted to pornography. Maybe you're perilously close to doing something that you know is destructive. If there is life, there is hope. You can turn to God in repentance.

you can cry out to him and ask for help, and then you've got to come clean. I don't mean that if you thought a wrong thought, you immediately have to go tell someone. I don't mean that if you're on the internet and saw something wrong for a second and you looked away, that you'd have to go confess it to the whole world. I'm saying if you have a problem, I'm saying if you are consistently sinning in an area You need to come clean. and you and you need to sit down and talk to someone be it your spouse be it a spiritual leader Be it someone who's strong that can help you walk in accountability.

Because it it's going to destroy you otherwise. And in the end, you'll say it wasn't worth it. For w for what? For some some excitement, some romantic excitement? For for some sexual release?

For for for what? Destroy everything? Destroy your career? Destroy your marriage? Alienate your children?

Bring reproach to God's name? For what? I'm in the same flesh that you're in, the same body that you're in. Fighting the same battle that you're fighting. That's why I sound these alarms.

That's why I look at what's happened to others. And I step back so I too can be sobered. Afresh Listen to this verse from Ecclesiastes. The book of Ecclesiastes, chapter 10, verse 1. And it's the only verse in the Bible that starts with the words dead flies.

Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savor. That's how I memorized it in the King James.

So doth the little folly hymn that is in reputation for wisdom and honor. I'll read it from the ESV. Dead flies make the perfumer's ointment give off a stench.

So a little folly outweighs wisdom and honor.

Alright, so think of this. For years and years and years and years, you build a solid reputation. as a man or woman of integrity. For years and years and years, you walk a certain way so that people trust you. For years and years and years you act in a way that is honorable and wise, and you gain a reputation for Wisdom.

for honour. for integrity. for trustworthiness. Do you know that you can destroy all that? In a moment of time?

Do you know something that takes years and years and years to build can be destroyed in a moment of time? Oh, a great athlete like Tiger Woods.

Some would say one of the two greatest golfers of all time, Tiger Woods and Jack Nicholas. Tiger Woods looked invincible. Tiger Woods was going to smash all the records. And well, I mean, he struggled. Obviously, he's had physical issues and things like that, but everything kind of exploded.

When his sexual sin came to the surface, he lost his wife, his kids. I don't mean he never sees his kids, but lost the family that he had. And that whole image, all the advertising and there's smiling Tiger Woods and yeah, I mean, he was a tough competitor and all that, but he was the man with his wife and kids and all the while sleeping with different women, porn stars and all these different women.

Now listen. If you were in his shoes, if I was in his shoes, we might have done the exact same thing. Who knows the temptation that comes his way on a daily basis? Who knows stuff that's offered to him that some of us wouldn't even dream of and there's offered to him.

So again, I'm not saying it's to throw stones. Plus, he's not a born-again man. He doesn't know the Lord.

So, make it all the more easy for him to sin. and do the wrong thing. But he has brought terrible reproach to his name and reputation. And whether it's coincidental or not whether his great decline in golf coincides with the scandals coming to the surface because he was doing great while apparently while committing a sexual sin over the years, but at a certain point it comes to the surface. A certain point it becomes known.

Did they take away some of his courage? Did that take away some of his sense of being invincible? Did it take away some of his Mental toughness, I don't know. I don't know. But what I do know is that There was a time when you said the words Tiger Woods.

What do you think of? Golf, greatest golf player ever. Got that's what you think of. Instantly, that's what would come to mind.

Now you think Tiger Woods Um It's a bit of a mix. It's a bit of a mix. From a little boy, his father was working with him to be the world's greatest golfer. and and all the effort and all the years that he puts in And and you and you say, Hey, Tiger, you you could have had a happy marriage with a beautiful Woman with two great kids and maybe more kids. You could have had these tens of millions of dollars in endorsements.

and you could have been the greatest golfer who ever lived. If you just stayed with your wife. and didn't have all these gorgeous women on the side, I think looking back, you'd say that would have been the better choice. That would have been... the better choice.

I want to say it again, friend, please hear me. To you, to me. Not Worth it. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Hey, let me say one more thing about sex scandals, and I want to go to the phones: 866-34TRUTH. Um The same media.

That would m mark Vice President Mike Pence. for his marital fidelity guidelines. such as not eating alone with a woman other than his wife. such as not working late with an aid, that was female. such as not being in a room where alcohol was being served unless his wife was there with him.

The same media that would mock him and call him Sharia Mike and this is unfair to the other women that work with him and all this other nonsense, they're probably mocking. A former governor Bentley, right now. Fuck it's old man, sex scandal. Look at that. All the more then, Do Mike Pence's guidelines make sense?

All the more, then, do his precautions make sense, because a a lot of people do mess up. And especially when there's power involved and prestige involved, it's all the more easy. And maybe a young lady that's not even physically attracted to the older man, but she's drawn in by his power, his personality, or the governor is interested in me, or or where she laughs at his jokes and how he feels alive again 'cause his wife doesn't pay attention to him and Look, things like this can happen. They can happen.

So when I see this happen to others, it's a reminder it happened to me. When I see it happen to a man older than me, it's a reminder, always remain vigilant. Don't play games. And look, right now. There are accusations of sexual harassment coming against Bill O'Reilly.

Now, I have no idea if there's any truth to them. He paid out something like thirteen million dollars. in payments to different women over the years that brought cases against him and his only comment is in the position that he's in, he's going to get accused a lot. You say, well, once you make a payment, you say you're guilty. That's how it looks.

But others would say that's some people are just going to come at you and that's the easiest solution is just get rid of it like that. Again, I don't know any details.

Now someone else has come forward. Fox is looking into it. Look. It would be a shame. For someone who's had a career in journalism and has been a respected journalist, some love him, some hate him.

But he's he's been a respected journalistic figure for decades. and a best-selling author for many years that Just some interest in some other woman or some harassing comments could blemish him for life, if true. If true.

So In any case. We don't know the situation with Bill Arada. We do know the situation with Governor Bentley. But uh for sure. For sure.

Uh we we need to look at this. And take heed. and examine our own lives. And think, hey, if playing games got somebody else in trouble, it's going to get me in trouble. Should play with fire.

You will get burned. 866-34TRUTH. Let's go to Concord, North Carolina. Sam, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr.

Browns. Hey buddy. I just want to honor you and thank you, first of all, for just pouring yourself out night and day. I'm graduating next month. And I just want to thank you for a really Giving yourself to us as the students.

But hey, hey, Sam, my joy, and very quickly, Before God saved you, what was your life like? Oh man, uh Well, I grew up in the church, but I didn't really have anything of a relationship with Jesus. written on the coattails of my parents' relationship. who loved Jesus very dearly, but um I got to high school and, you know, I just kind of fell in with the world and I started partying and and drinking and uh, you know, just using drugs and everything and then all of a sudden, you know, Jesus ambushed me one afternoon when I was smoking with my friends, I had a drug trip where I where I went to hell and uh he pretty much revealed himself and sobered me up real quick. But that was it.

Now, be in your drug days, were you depressed or suicidal? I know I was actually very uh Very happy-go-lucky. Uh-huh. I didn't really have I I was happy to go lucky, I didn't really have you know a care in the world. It was actually after.

You know, after I encountered the Lord, that the enemy really. hit me hard because I was off the benches and I was in the game.

So you came under attack, and then what did you experience from God's grace that brought you to where you are today?

Well, uh, for about After I got radically saved, the enemy attacked me for a period of six months, and I was suicidally depressed and wanted to kill myself. It was one morning that my dad actually had a word from the Lord and prophesied over me, and I was immediately set free. And ever since then, that was about uh May twenty thirteen and ever since then I've been I've been running with Lord pretty uh pretty consistently. Yeah, and a shameless, an unashamed witness of the gospel. and loving the Lord with it with a a great victory in your life.

And Sam, before we get to your question, what would you tell other folks if they're serious about being trained and equipped and sent out for the work of the Lord, what would you tell them about Fire School of Ministry? I would say uh Put away all of your thoughts on what your ministry life might be. Seriously, consider. Fire fire school of ministry. Um, before I came to Five School Ministry, I was uh what you would probably consider flaky and and maybe weird.

But when I came to the school, they really laid a foundation of biblical truth. of theology, but not just theology and and Bible learning. but also Christ himself, getting along with him and the real burden for revival.

So there's not many schools like Fire School of Ministry. You can go to a college, a four year university and get all of the Theology training, but there's, I don't think there's many places, or if there is a place like Fire School of Ministry, to get practically trained. and uh also to get the uh the the teaching from Accredited doctors and professors who teach at uh you know, universities and Bible colleges, but it's their ministry To really pour into as many as they possibly can.

So please, please come. And and uh how did you find the hands-on practical training.

Well actually like right now, we're going down to downtown Logan or downtown Concord where there's a little park. And uh we're just gonna go play You know, with frisbee, like Wiffleball, whatever, we're going to go play with the kids down there and just really pour into them, you know, to see if the Lord would open any doors for the word. But that's kind of what we do. We go, we'll have classes, and sometimes, you know, the Lord will really break in in the classes, but ultimately we're learning and then hands-on, we take it out. We take it out into the community, we take it out to wherever there's an open door, and just in our daily lives, we're really trained to really put into practice what we have.

What has been poured into us, and what has been really put into us.

So it's very hands-on, very practical. Awesome. Called to plug the school, but when I realized it was you, I said, Hey, let's take a minute. And I knew the powerful testimony in your life. Friends, to find out more, you've got to be at least 18 and you've got to be called to ministry, to service.

It's not just a place to come and My life's messed up. I want to find out more about God or learn a little about the Bible. You need to be called. We're looking for the next generation of leaders, for the next generation of revolutionaries, for the next generation of missionaries, and pastors and teachers and prophetic leaders and evangelists to send out.

So we're here to equip you and help you fulfill your calling to find out more. You can be 30, 50, 70, but you've got to be at least 18. Seriously committed with a calling on your life. Go to fire-school.org. fire-school.org.

By the way, the class I'm teaching right now, first and second year students, is Holiness. Yeah. All in this class. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr.

Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks for joining us on the line of fire. In a few minutes, I want to talk to you about Jewish background to Matthew 10. And some sobering comments from the Messiah there. As I was writing an article for a new dictionary on messianic prophecy, I happened to touch on some of these issues last night. It reminded me afresh, and I said, you know, I'm going to talk about that on the air today.

All right, back to Sam. Your question, sir. Oh yes.

So I was in Matthew three this morning and uh I was reading uh particularly verse 11. John saying, you know, he will come, you know, the Messiah will come and baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. You know, he's speaking uh to the people, but he's also speaking to the Pharisees. And and the side you see is It's just funny because in our circle, we usually hear that God will baptize you in the Holy Spirit and fire. And I just when the one thought The right understanding of this And maybe you could correct me, but He's not necessarily talking about fire being a good thing in this passage, is he?

So that's the thing.

Well, actually, yeah, if you'll notice. Matthew 3, 10, 11, and 12. All speak of fire. The fire of verses 10 and 12 is the fire of judgment. the fire of verse 11.

Is the fire of the spirit, I believe, in purification and passion.

So, verse 10. Rebuking the hypocritical religious leaders, Even now the axe is laid to the root of the tree. Every tree, therefore, that does not bear good fruit, is cut down and thrown into the fire. I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier still, who sent us on that word to carry. He will baptize you.

With the Holy Spirit and fire.

So, who does Jesus baptize with the Holy Spirit?

Well, His disciples, not the world, but His disciples.

So, He'll baptize you. with the Holy Spirit and fire. And I understand that just like at Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit comes, he comes with tongues of fire. Just like the glory of God is associated with fire within the scriptures, beginning in Genesis 15 with the presence of God being like a blazing torch. And then Revelation 4, the seven lamps burning before the throne of God, representing the seven spirits or sevenfold spirit of God.

And then throughout the Bible, you've got fire, fire, fire associated with the glory of God.

So I take it as purifying fire. I take it as the fire of passion. I take it as the fire of the spirit. But fire is a heavy image either way. Deuteronomy 4, 24, quoted in Hebrews 12, 29, says, our God is a consuming fire.

So either way, it's a sobering thought. Isaiah 33, 14, who can dwell with the everlasting burnings? That's talking about who can live in the presence of God. It's not talking about hell. It's talking about the presence of God.

So the baptism in the spirit is a baptism in fire as well. Again, fire of purity, fire of passion. These things are certainly included in it. Then verse 12, his winnowing fork is in his hand. and he will clear his threshing floor, and gather his wheat into the barn.

But the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire. This goes back to the imagery of Malachi 3, where the Messiah comes like a refiner's fire. and there he purifies the Levites and the religious leaders. as a refiner would purify silver and gold, or as a launderer would clean laundry. And of course, it was a pretty violent cleansing process, you know, being beaten on the rocks and stuff like that.

And this is what he'll do.

So he's going to come and bring separation. And he's going to separate the godly from the ungodly. and the ungodly will be burned up. With unquenchable fire, and and the godly will be purged and purified with fire. But either way, there's going to be fire: the fire of judgment or the fire of purification.

And it's significant that it occurs in all three of those verses. All right?

So.

So could it be just one last little thing to add on and then I'll be gone, but could it be that the it's the same fire that will baptize the righteous and the wicked, but it will just have a different effect?

Well, yes, in that it's all God's presence. but knowing that the one is the fire that falls upon us. as believers in obedience to God. The other is at the end of the age, the fire of judgment. But yes, you could say it's the presence of God.

For some, it brings blessing, and for some it brings judgment. I think there's a right observation there. Appreciate the call. Give us strict to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Hey friends, we've got three special interviews coming your way in the second hour. You don't want to miss.

My good friend Larry Tomczak will be talking about the perils of trying to make the gospel relevant. Then actor Stephen Baldwin about a powerful one-man play about the thief on the cross. And then my dear friend James Robison as we talk about Syria. And tomorrow, a couple of important interviews. Jewish scholar Amy Jill Levine.

Talking about Jesus. Through Jewish eyes, Jewish eyes of someone who doesn't believe in him as Messiah, but greatly respects the New Testament. And then my trainer, Scott Neri, who is a powerful evangelist. We're going to have a great broadcast tomorrow as well. You don't want to miss it.

866-34TRUTH. Let's go to Keith in New York. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Hey, Doctor Brown, how are you? I'm doing well, thank you.

Good, good. I was just wondering if uh I was I was looking online this morning and I saw an article that was Uh surprising to me. And then I looked it up. From a radio show yesterday, and it was confirmed that Hank Hanograph, the Bible Answer Man. has converted from evangelical Protestantism to Eastern Orthodoxy.

Have you heard that and what do you think? Yes, yes, I have, and it is true in terms of he has joined the Greek Orthodox Church. Here's what I do know. Hank and I during the days of the Brownsville Revival, actually became good friends. Hank was one of the foremost critics, probably the most prominent critic of the revival.

I was one of the leaders in the revival. And we were anything but friends at the beginning. We spent a lot of time together during it. We became friends in the midst of our differences. And that's been our relationship since.

Mutual respect, but friendship in the midst of our differences. I took real issue with Hank's turn. Toward a replacement theology preterist view that was. almost so pro-Palestinian, it was anti-Israel. But we remain friends in the midst of those differences as well.

But just with the busyness of life and things like that, I haven't followed his ministry or work for years. I know they continue to put out great material in their CRI journal, and I'm sure there's a ton of good that Hank does on the air with the various apologetic subjects he covers and dealing with evolution and exposing the cults and things like that. But apparently, as I've just read some links that were sent to me over the weekend, he's been talking more and more positively about Greek orthodoxy in recent years and concepts like theosis, that we take on the divine image or the divine nature, that Greek Orthodoxy would teach it. More aggressively, say than evangelicalism would, we'd have a different interpretation of 2 Peter 1 that we're partakers of the divine nature. that as you listen to clips from the last few years, you see that he has been talking about these issues more.

So I asked some of my colleagues when I got the first report, is it true? And they weren't sure either. And then one of my friends just wrote to me earlier today. and said that he spoke with Hank, and that Hank said he did join the church, but is still committed as ever To promote the essentials of Christianity, he said, quote, mere Christianity.

So.

On the one hand, I would say that as far as Hank holding to the fundamentals of the faith, he's emphasizing that he still is. And therefore, people are talking about, quote, his apostasy. Or something like that. I would not see this as apostasy if he still affirms the fundamentals of the faith.

Now, does Greek orthodoxy in its essentials? Deny the fundamentals of the faith.

Some claim yes, some say no. And of course, Greek Orthodoxy believes that it is the original true church. and that it is the original Jewish-rooted church. And that it predates the splits that took place subsequently.

So that's how Greek Orthodoxy sees itself. But what it is that attracted Hank there, I can't say. What it is that pulled him away from mainstream evangelicalism, I can't say. I haven't spoken to him about it. But my concerns would be, again, To what extent Will his thinking continue to morph away?

from evangelicalism. Will it morph away from the centrality of the cross, morph away from justification by faith, morph away from the authority of Scripture?

Now, I imagine if Hank was here, he would say, well, why would it? Greek Orthodoxy affirms those things. Others would have concerns. But it is true that he has officially joined the Greek Orthodox Church and confirmed out of his own mouth. Yeah, it's pretty interesting.

I Yeah, I was surprised by it, but I had a similar conversion as well.

So But it was interesting to see someone, you know, kind of famous and as knowledgeable as him. But I was also an evangelical and He said yesterday on his radio show that he studied church history. And saw the early Early yeah, Christians. Um, basically we're not, you know, Protestant. You go look into his own words, how he said it.

Yeah, yeah, and but apparently he recited the Nicene Creed as well to say, hey, he still holds to these fundamentals.

Now, when I look at church history, that's why I identify as a Messianic Jew. I think that's where you got to start. all the first followers of Jesus Jews. who identified as Jews. And they also believe.

they believe in the real presence the community of saints. Oh, I don't think so. I certainly don't think so at all. I mean, the earliest believers we have are the ones the writers of the New Testament. But we can't, yeah, there's no reason to get into an argument here.

But, Keith, so let's just cover a few essential things. How well would you say you are versed in Greek Orthodoxy?

Okay, Coursera. I'm a Catholic. I know we.

Okay, so you converted to you went from evangelicalism to Catholicism. Right, but you Orthodoxy is very similar. A lot of us consider them like two lungs of the same church, really. We're looking towards uh recommending with with each other. Got it.

Oh, okay.

So, what would you say in your mind, Keith? Again, I'm not here to debate you, okay? But in your mind, sir, what would you say are the fundamental differences? between Catholicism and Evangelicalism. On evangelicalism?

Yeah, uh-huh. That's where you came out of, correct? Correct, yeah.

Well, the big thing I would say the Martin Luther Uh we had a innovation of uh Sula Fide, Sola Scriptura, all that, which was. you know, unknown throughout church history. And I think I don't I can't I've read I've read Luther's writings, not all of them, but a lot of them. Right to Calvin's writings. Um I think I think the The separation between faith and works, the dichotomy that was put there.

Is I don't think it's a false a false dichotomy, maybe.

So the the they drove a wedge between faith and works. And I think that's where A lot of the arguments are are I thought over. And I don't think that's the same thing. I don't certainly understand the Catholic position. Keith, when you stand before God.

in terms of being justified. Um do you do you um Do you say Lord, I put my trust in what Jesus did on the cross. I'm justified. by his blood. And as a result of that, you're a changed person, you live a changed life.

Or do you say, I'm justified by the blood of Jesus and by the good works I've done as well? No, so what what the caloric position is that human nature on its own is incapable of doing any good works.

So that Christ made satisfaction Through the cross. uh substitutionary uh atonement. And he paid for all the sins in the history of the world.

Okay. that that is given to us through the divine life through grace.

Now that he communicates that grace to us normally for the sacraments, though not only. Right?

So, whenever we do th the sacraments, you think we're trying to impress God with our good works. Oh, I ate that bread really good. He's really impressed with me. I've impressed College about done a good work. How we actually see it is that God communicates His grace through the sacraments, kind of like you would believe that God communicates grace through reading the scripture or through preaching.

We believe he communicates that grace through the sacrament. Right. And I'd say he communicates it most directly as we put our faith in and trust in him. But you're not in other words, you're saying that faith inevitably leads to good works and is demonstrated in good works as opposed to you are justified by good works. The initial grace of justification is unearned.

And it's given to us. And then from that, he regenerates us And then we cooperate with the races that he gives us. If I help an old lady cross the street, and it's an actual good work arising from the Holy Spirit. that is merited to me. Um from him.

So he uh standard was who said that he crowns his own uh His own graces. Right?

Yeah. You know, Keith, the thing that's he's the first mover when we cooperate with it. He gets the ultimate credit when we cooperate with it. Right, and I should go to hell it's because I reject it. Right, reject description.

Right, right. And just to be clear, Keith, fundamentally, that's how I understand things. Salvation is a gift by God's grace. It can't be earned in a trillion lifetimes. There's nothing good in me to merit it.

It is God's unmerited love, and by his grace, I believe and receive that gift. And now I cooperate with his grace. I could choose to reject his grace and deny him and walk away. But I cooperate with that grace as a born-again person, as God working in me to will and do of his good pleasure, and I have to work out my salvation with fear and trembling. Uh but it's all grace.

In the end. What's interesting to me, Keith, though, is as a Jewish follower of Jesus, I look at church history with great interest, but I also look at it as when it cut itself off from Jewish roots to that extent, wherever it did, it went in the wrong direction.

So I'm always going back to scripture, scripture, scripture, because that's what I see as the New Testament pattern, going back to scripture. Hey, thanks for calling, Keith. Got a It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. So if you like the way you're going to be able to do it, Your kingdom looks Pharaoh, you should let my people go. And if you're safe Still holding Well Pharaoh, you should let my people go We're celebrating the Passover right now, commemorating Israel's deliverance from Egypt. commemorating the Messiah's death for us to deliver us from sin. That was the voice of the Maccabeets.

I should have identified them earlier in the broadcast. No, they are not Messianic Jews. No, they do not believe as I believe, but they are gifted and they are articulating a great Jewish heart cry, and I appreciate that. And apparently, this Let My People Go, Maccabees. Video is based on a Justin Bieber Passover mashup, parody mashup of Love Yourself, Sorry, and What Do You Mean?

Originally performed by Justin Bieber. That's what the blurb tells me. 866-34TRUTH. Hey, I just want to mention to you. that there are times when my purpose is to debate.

I have a guest automatic. My purpose is to debate that guest, and they know they're coming on for that reason. There may be a caller that calls with a particular viewpoint and may be fairly aggressive in it, and they're pushing it, and it deserves a certain pushback. And there are other times where we're just going to exchange information. and the purpose is not to debate, as with the last caller.

So sometimes you just want me to smack this down and smack that down. There's a time to do it and there's a time not to do it. And so, yeah, obviously I'm not Catholic, but I believe there are born-again Catholics. But I do not affirm the Catholic doctrine that is extra-biblical. I do not affirm the authority of tradition.

I do not affirm the authority of the Pope. I do not affirm the veneration of Mary. I do not affirm the Catholic Mass. Yet I have friends and colleagues that are born-again Catholics. Yeah.

Thank God for that grace, and I'm sure there are plenty of born-again, Jesus-loving Greek Orthodox. despite differences that we would have. And yes, it concerns me. When I feel a respected, influential Christian leader turns in the direction that I think is the wrong direction. direction on these issues.

I don't throw the person under the bus or talk about their apostasy unless they're actually denying scripture and denying. the Lord. 866-348-7 Eight, eight, four.

Okay. So In the Mishnah, this is the first... Jewish law code, you can say. And it is written in the beginning of the third century.

So it's compiled by about 220. of this error. 220 AD or CE, common error, as Jews would say. And it reflects an editorial process that had been taking place for decades. and now finally put together in this particular form six orders of the Mishnah.

In physical length, it's about the length of the Bible. And there are only two mentions of the Messiah. in the literature. It does not focus on this. It focuses on Jewish laws.

It focuses on living a pious life as a Jew, even as if there was a temple standing for sacrifices and things like that, which of course was not the case at that time. And one of the references to the Messianic Age says this. For those that want to look it up, it's Mishnah Sota 915. with the footprints of the Messiah, meaning with the advent of the Messiah, Presumption increases. and dearth increases.

The vine gives its fruit and wine at great cost, and the and the government turns to heresy. And there is no reproof. the gathering place will be for prostitution. and Galilee will be laid waste, and the Gablon, which was another beautiful district, will be made desolate. and the men of the frontier will go about from town to town.

and none will take pity on them. and the wisdom of scribes will putrefy. and those who fear sin will be rejected. and the truth will be locked away. Children will shame elders, and elders will stand up before children.

For the son dishonors the father, and the daughter rises up against her mother, the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Man's enemies are the men of his own house. Micah 7, 6. The face of the generation is the face of a dog. A son is not ashamed before his father.

Upon whom shall we depend? Upon our Father in heaven. Again, this is the Mishnah, Sota 9.15. What's interesting is the quotation from Micah chapter 7 verse 6. Micah chapter 7, verse 6.

Because Jesus quotes those very words in Matthew 10. He also quotes from Micah chapter 7, verse 6.

Now, he's quoting this. say a hundred 70, 180 years before it's written in the Mishnah. But the Mishnah also relies on earlier traditions. And it's it's very possible, it's probably even plausible. That Maybe very likely that these traditions were already known in Jesus' day.

And that Micah 7:6 was associated with the Messianic era. even though in its immediate context you wouldn't necessarily see that.

So Jesus says in Matthew 10 verse 34, Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace. but a sword For I've come to set A man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. What's he doing?

He's pointing back to Micah 7. And from what we can tell in later Rubini tradition, but apparently in that time as well. That this was associated with the days of Messiah, that there would be conflict and division right within the family. One would follow God, the other would not the parents would, the children wouldn't the children would, the parents wouldn't a brother would, a sister wouldn't, and vice versa. Therefore, Yeshua says, Whoever loves father and mother more than me is not worthy of me.

and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. and whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Friends This hasn't changed. This hasn't changed.

Jesus didn't take these words back. He didn't say, well, that was then, but it's going to stop. Everything's just going to be wonderful. Everybody's going to love each other and be happy. There's not going to be any more conflict.

No, to this moment, around the world. People have to make life and death decisions. Will they, when ISIS says we will kill your children unless you deny the Lord, will the parents deny the Lord? What an agonizing question.

some years back in the state of Orissa in India. His Hindu Extremists. took families, it took a pastor. Friends that were involved ministering to the folks there told me about it. Took a pastor, took his wife and children, and poured gasoline on them and said, We will burn them to death unless you deny Jesus.

I mean, who can imagine? situations like this, but the Messiah said, Hey, This is what's going to happen. He didn't come with a sword, a physical sword, but with a sword of separation. It's costly to follow Jesus, friends. It's a serious and costly thing.

Let's not lighten it. Let's not cheapen it with a pep talk. pop entertainment gospel. Let's tell people the truth. And friends, I want to tell you the truth today.

Together, we're making a difference. Every one of you, as you stand with us and partner together for the gospel, we're making a difference around the world. Can I ask you? Go to thelineoffire.org. Go there today.

Stand with us as together we're making a difference. From trying to make the gospel relevant to a powerful new one-man Christian play to observations about a peace plan for Syria, all coming your way today. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. That's 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Hey, friends, we've got three great interviews coming your way today.

I believe you're going to be stirred, ministered to, encouraged, strengthened, blessed. This is Michael Brown. Welcome to the broadcast, 866-3487-884. The number to call. And if we're able to squeeze some calls in, we will do that.

And to all of my Jewish friends around the world celebrating Passover, and to my Messianic Jewish friends, my traditional Jewish friends, my Christian friends entering in. Into the season. May the blessing of God be upon you during this Passover. Season, may you recognize more deeply the greatness of our deliverance. From sin and bondage, first from Egypt and then from sin.

Behold the Lamb of God who takes Away The sin of the world Messiah, our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed for us. John 1, 29, 1 Corinthians 5, 7. Therefore, let us celebrate the feast either literally or at the very least spiritually and metaphorically. 866-348-7884. Before I bring on my friend Larry Tomzak, let me.

give you a little analogy that I often use. In terms of what happens when we try to popularize the gospel to make it more acceptable to the world. With the goal somehow of quote, winning more people, helping more people. Uh A doctor, again, this is my analogy. A doctor discovers An incredible cure for cancer.

Nothing like this has ever been done. It is potentially the greatest breakthrough in the history of science. And he he meets with a marketing team. that wants to get this drug out to the general public, and these things cost hundreds of millions of dollars to introduce to the general public. And he explains the drug, but said just...

In order for it to be effective, there are three unusual things. One, It has to be taken in pill form. This is the only way it can dissolve properly over a period of time and get the anti-cancer drug into the body properly.

So that's me taking the pill form. But the pill is humongous pill. It's almost impossible to swallow. People gag on it. And then afterwards, it has this horrific bitter aftertaste that lasts seven.

full days. And it costs a million dollars for one pill. But it cures all cancer at all stages, guaranteed.

Well, the marketing people are blown away by this. The medical people say it is true, it does work. And they say this doctor, here's what you need to do. Number one, it's got to stand pill form. It needs to be a...

A pill that Uh pill that You can swallow. That's number one.

So gel cap, small, something like that. Number two, got to get rid of the aftertaste. People just aren't going to be able to handle it. They're going to go crazy.

So, either no bad taste or better yet, like a pleasant aftertaste. And number three. Get it down to $10,000 instead of a million for the pill. and this thing will change the world.

So after two years of hard work, he calls the marketers and again he says, I've done it. I've done it successfully. I've done it successfully. And um Yeah. It's a beautiful little gel cap.

It slides right down. You don't even need water. And it tastes great. I mean, it's got this, after you swallow, it's like, mmm, what a pleasant aftertaste. And I've got it down to $10,000 a pill.

Only one problem. It no longer cures cancer. Friends, that's what we've done. by trying to make the gospel acceptable to the world. with our pep what's in it for me, feel good, bypass the cross, gospel.

We come back, Larry Tomzak and I are going to talk about the dangers of trying to make the gospel relevant. Hey, if we have time. Larry just celebrated 41 years of marriage, so did I, he's got a new article on four ways to make your marriage divorce-proof. Oh God of burning, cleanse. Single flame.

Say And the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us today on the line of fire. I'm here with my good friend, colleague of many years, Larry Tomczek. Hey Larry, congratulations on 41 years of marriage.

Well, yeah, thank you so much. And you know what? I thank you. You know, the $12 million love gift you sent, it came today, and the new Lexus and the. A five-year travel around the world, all the money.

I mean, Mike, Doris and I just fainted when it arrived. Oh, great, great. Yeah, and the best stuff is still on the way. We had to ship that from Timbuktu, and the elephant got a little nervous along the way.

So we'll get that to you. Yeah, we celebrated 41 years last month, and now you and Doris 41 years this month. And if we have time, we'll get to that as well. But, Larry, you're a soul winner. You love people.

You are one of the most loving guys that I know. One of the most genuine guys. You don't yell and scream and put people down. You tell the truth. And yet.

You do not believe in this modern trend of, quote, making the gospel relevant by somehow watering it down. And you wrote an article a few days back: has the relevant gospel compromised kingdom culture.

So, first, What do you mean by making the gospel relevant?

Well, you know, Mike, first of all, thank you for letting me be with you on the show because we're. co-laborers in this task and um I'm committed, like you, to a spiritual revolution, to authenticity. And in our church, we started the year off by doing an exposition of the What we're calling the greatest teaching ever given by the greatest teacher who ever lived, which is. the masterpiece Sermon on the Mount. You know, Mike, in the beginning, I love this.

Jesus outlined in 15 verses, he says, Who are real believers? And then he goes on to say, They're poor in spirit, they mourn, they meek, hunger, thirst for righteousness. And he lays out, he doesn't say what you do, he just says, Here's how you know real believers. Then next, he says, what's going to happen to them?

Well, verse 10, they'll be persecuted for righteousness' sake. And then he says, lastly, how do they affect the world? They'll be salt and light.

So That's That's New Testament Christianity. It's like there's the constitution of the kingdom. But my my concern is we've drifted into some kind of a what's called seeker friendly. And I want to make sure I'm careful on that because there's certain aspects of that that I agree with. Jesus came to speak and saved the lost, but a more convenient, kind of consumer oriented, a very comfortable comfortable approach where we sugarcoat things and we don't present what is the truth in terms of authentic New Testament.

Christianity. And that is my passion. while at the same time being very evangelistic and reaching out and sensitive to new people. Because, as you said, I'm committed to lifestyle evangelism. I just this morning saw a lady, I was privileged, a Middle Eastern lady, to lead to the Lord with her husband in the past week.

And Mike, I'm committed to that, but I'm bird. I just see we're trying to make things relevant, we sugarcoat, and we drift from what Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount. All right, so what happens then? In what ways do we drift and what are the effects of it?

Well Um let me let's let's have a little fun here. And and again, Everyone, as you listen, uh I I love the lost and I reach 'em. But uh, and there is a place for confrontational evangelism. I mean, especially in open-air meetings, etc. But I believe in being you know relational, build bridges.

But let's have a little fun. Can you identify with this? How about people that would say something like this to invite, to reach lost people? They'd say, like, hey, if you come to our church, Uh we'll promise you enjoy it. It's really like a weekly motivational pep talk, and there's lots of convenient parking.

You're going to find it really entertaining. You're going to love our music. We're very relatable and relevant. You can come casual. We've got free coffee and donuts.

You're going to be blown away by our beautiful and comfortable sanctuary, the seating, the lighting. And our pastor, oh my, he is really cool. He really emphasizes the love of God. And don't worry, he won't speak ever on anything controversial or political. In fact, he's doing a series right now on the 12 ways to help you succeed and invest wisely in life.

And we'll get you out in about 60, 70 minutes. We even have a buffet afterwards. We got a speaker. It's a wrestler, professional wrestler that's going to share.

So, come on, could you come? It's really easy and it's a lot of fun. Will you join me?

Now, some may say, Larry, aren't you exaggerating?

Well, a little hyperbole here, but. In our quest to be connecting and relatable and friendly and reach people. We're drifting. And what I ask is What's going to happen to that person if that is the steady diet? And are people who come to a setting like that, that kind of atmosphere, are they going to have a balance?

exposition. On scriptural themes, doctrinal themes. Is there an authentic gospel presentation? Is there an emphasis, as the Bible would have it, on holiness, a fear of God, repentance, judgment, sin? Even the cost of discipleship and obedience to scripture as the authoritative word of God.

And so You know, when we get relevant and we become superficial and we get little sermonettes as we call them sometimes. I think we see the consequences in our culture among so-called professing Christians. and churches. 200 churches might close weekly in America.

So I'm not saying this to discourage us. I think it's time that we, all of us, reconsecrate ourselves. To New Testament Christianity outlined in the Sermon on the Mount. And Mike, my experience. I can share this as we go here.

is really I thank God I was brought in the right way. And it's not a seeker friendly way, and yet the results, the consequences have been very positive. And Larry, before you were saved, you played drums in a rock band. What was it called?

Well We were called the lost souls, the lost men, and I was lost. I was a 20. This was in Cleveland, the home of Rock and Roller Hall of Fame, and, you know, a lot of rock and roll. And that was my life. And so the Yeah.

That's who I was as a 20-year-old college student until God, thank God, sent the right People into my life who led me on the right path. And I was brought to faith in Jesus Christ in the real way, and it's 48 years later. What's the real way? Yeah. Mike, is it?

Here, here, I'll do it real quick. My car breaks down. It's on the way to Cleveland State University. A black man gives me a lift. he invites me to his little church.

Now I had never been in a Protestant church. I was Catholic, and all I knew was kind of an unemotional library atmosphere. I'm not being critical of Catholic, that was my background. And this guy invites me to a storefront church, and I went. I said, Look, you were kind enough to give me a lift.

I'm coming.

So that Sunday I went. And when I went into his little storefront building, there was about 30 black folks that were there. I was the only a white guy there. And they were It was a dilapidated inner city. Building.

The benches looked like old holdovers from who knows what. The singing was exuberant. The congregants clapped hands. I mean, I stood there, and I have to admit, it jolted my circuits because it wasn't, quote, as we say. Speaker-friendly, very gentle.

We don't want to embarrass you. You don't have to, anybody know you stay anonymous. But you know what? The presence of God was in that place. The man that picked me up hitchhiking was the pastor of that little church.

And you know what? It was just weeks later, Mike. Because of the presence of God, and me knowing there was something authentic and real, even though I couldn't articulate it. I yielded my life to Christ. And then shortly thereafter, when somebody said, Why don't you write a book on this?

Again, you think, Well, people don't want to hear this. That's too radical. And I wrote it, and a quarter million of these went all over the world. It's still out there on Kindle. It's called Clap Your Hands, Clap Your Hands.

But, Mike, that was my radical beginnings like Peter on Pentecost. Repent, be baptized, be filled with the Holy Spirit, and then, you know, be saved from this wicked generation, and then be added to the local body of believers. That's the New Testament pattern. That's what Jesus laid out. And that's what I believe God's trying to bring us back to.

and steer clear of the sugar coated, watered down message that brings us, let's face it, we may be successful numerically. But we're in I think we're unsuccessful in terms of influence in our nation.

So that was my inauguration. And then later, I'll tell you what else happened. Yeah, well, we'll tell you what, we've just got a minute, Larry, before the break, but I want to remind folks about your bullseye challenge. You take up 30 controversial issues in the church-from immigration to abortion to homosexuality, you name it. You've got a video teaching online and then a book that goes along with this.

So, in just a few minutes each day, read the book, look at the relevant scriptures, watch the video teaching. You'll be knowledgeable and equipped to address each of these different areas much better than you are right now.

So, if folks want to find out more, where do they go, Larry? Oh, Mike, thank you.

Well, bullseye challenge.com. Just, that's very easy to remember. Just think of bullseye challenge.com, no space, apostrophe. And when you go there, you can immediately access these briefs. They're only three minutes, maybe four, on all these hot button issues of today.

And it's done in a compelling, relatable way. You'll enjoy it. And then get the book there on Amazon. Just order it. You'll get it in three days.

And you can, as a Bible study, as a home group, as a church, as a father, a parent, we went through it as our church. We went through for 30 days. And we're seeing informed influencers, people becoming bold to address issues today and not cower and be afraid. But to do it, win something. All right, bullseye challenge.

You can become an informed influencer. Watch the videos. Get the book. to be continued with my friend Larry Tomzay. Ain't the world It's fire we want, for fire we need.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

My friends, God's ways are always best. We try to come up with another way. We try to improve on God's ways, it doesn't work. And look. The goal of the Great Commission is to go and make disciples of the nations, right?

It is not to get church attenders. It is not to get numbers of people. It is not to get people to sign a club. Join a club. It is not to enlist people in some type of popularity contest.

It is to make disciples, meaning devoted followers of Jesus, meaning people who really want to do his will, whatever the cost, whatever the consequence. And that's not going to happen by us watering the message down. That's not going to happen by us. Meeting people where they are and not bringing them where they need to be. I'm all for meeting people where they are.

Often we have to start, people have no knowledge of God whatsoever. or have very hostile negative conceptions of God. etc.

So when that happens, when that's the case, then we're going to start where they are. And others have more knowledge and more understanding, and others are being dealt with more deeply by the Holy Spirit.

So wherever that's the case. Then we understand, okay, let's deal with the person where they are. But the goal is to bring them where they are supposed to be. Ah, my friend Stephen Caldwin has we were going to talk about We're going to talk about Uh a one-man play that he's doing. He sent me a trailer for it.

It is available on video, I believe, available online for viewing or purchasing. But it's a one-man play. where he is the thief on the cross. He is the thief in his rebellion. The thief being crucified and the thief coming to repentance and Faith.

And Stephen, from what I know of his testimony, we'll have to get him on one day to share more about his testimony. was uh lost, reprobate sinner graciously saved, And of course he his brothers, he's got two acting brothers, I guess Alec, the best known. And here you have Alec doing his famous mockery impersonations of Donald Trump on Saturday Night Live. and Stephen being an early supporter of Donald Trump. Yeah, I'm sure makes for some interesting family dynamics, but an emergency just came up because of which he had to run out and is not able to join us on the air.

So hopefully we'll connect with him in a few minutes. I want to talk with my friend James Robison and get some insights on the White House and talk about Middle East and Syria and things like that. But Since I've got an extra minute here. 1 Corinthians chapter 5. 1 Corinthians chapter 5, as this is the Passover season right now, the Passover Seder conducted last night in Jewish homes around the world.

Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 5, it is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you. and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans. For a man as his father's wife.

So since it's not described as mother. Then it's presumably a stepmother, right? A man has his father's wife.

So here's a man in a sexual relationship with his stepmother, with his father's wife. And look at what Paul says. And you are arrogant. Ought you not rather mourn? Let whom has done this be removed from among you.

Now, was the father still living or not? That's almost immaterial in the larger scheme here, but apparently the Corinthians were boasting about their liberty. Look at this Check this out So Paul says, For though absent in body, I am present in spirit. and as if present I've already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus, my Spirit is present with the power of our Lord Jesus.

You are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. You're boasting. It's not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven.

That you may be a new lump as you really are unleavened for Messiah. our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us, therefore, celebrate the festival not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread Of sincerity and truth. That's why I read this passage. If you're wondering from the beginning, what's this got to do with Passover?

That's why I read it because of this association here in 1 Corinthians 5:6 through 8.

So, a few observations, friends. Number one Number 1. First observation. is this. That Uh Paul knew that the Corinthians were familiar with the concept of the Passover.

You say, well, weren't they Gentile believers, or many Gentile believers in Carthage? Yes, for sure. but remember the very first of them heard Paul preach in the synagogue. Say, well, why would a Gentile convert be in the synagogue?

Well, because of the fact that there were God-fearing Gentiles. There were Gentiles who revered the God of Israel, but they did not convert to Judaism. In order to be a full-fledged member of the people of God, then you would have needed to be circumcised if you were a man and immersed, or one would have to be immersed, and you'd have to pledge to keep the commandments of God and live as a Jew. Be poet. of the people of Israel.

So you had those that would fully convert to Judaism. Then you had others who were God-fearers. They worshipped the God of Israel. They went to the synagogue to hear the teaching. They would celebrate the feasts and the lifestyle in terms of this is the calendar of Israel.

They knew it. They were familiar with it. Yet they did not convert and become Jews and have to take on the yoke of the full commandments.

So when Paul preached in the synagogue and said the Messiah is coming, both Jew and Gentile are kidnapping, and a Gentile does not have to become a Jew to have equal status in the kingdom of God. There are things God gave to the Jews, but he didn't give them to the Gentile world. you know, dietary laws and things like that. But they would be familiar with all of these things because they had been in the synagogue.

So Paul is assuming that they're familiar with the Passover as Gentile believers. That's one thing. That's one thing. Second thing. is this.

that at the very least he's urging them to celebrate the feast spiritually. Because you've got to remember, there's no way of knowing when a letter is going to be delivered in the ancient world. It's not like I just emailed you. I just overnighted the package to you.

So I don't think that he could predict, okay, this letter is definitely going to get there right before the Passover. And maybe you could have, but I don't think so. Get it immediately before the Passover and so forth. And that and because of that, then. Then they'll know to celebrate the feast.

Maybe he knew. Maybe he could time it like that. Maybe he wasn't that far away. I mean, that's all. for another discussion.

But at the very least he's saying metaphorically. You're familiar with the Passover, and it must have been Either when he was writing, or hopefully around when they get the letter, something like that.

So it was of some relevance in their thinking. Don't forget, a little leaven leavens the whole lump. And Pastor, we've got to get rid of all the leaven from the house, right? Cleanse out the old leaven, that you may be a lew lump, as you really are unleavened. For Messiah, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

Let us therefore celebrate the festival. Not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice, and even with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

So, again, either. Either. He's saying, celebrate it. Really, join in. This is your heritage too.

Messara Passover has been sacrificed. Or, metaphorically. Celebrate the feast, purge out the leaven. You are unleavened. That's how we should live.

in sincerity and truth. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRU.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. The crash MR2. Yeah. Internet completely out.

Because of which we've had to call in on another line, but glad to be with you. The plot continues to thicken in Syria. The plot continues to thicken. Russia says, hey, this is a false flag. that there are rebels behind the gas attack.

Rebels behind the gas attack. and they're going to be having more attacks like this to try to make the government look bad. And this has nothing to do with Russia, and this has nothing to do with the government of Syria, and therefore. Any attacks? Are completely out of place.

Any attacks are completely unmerited. Any attacks on the Assad regime are exactly what the rebels want.

So Russia is saying that in the clearest possible terms, and there will be repercussions if you're going to try to attack or take out Syria.

So the plot continues to thicken. Rex Tillerson, one of the concerns with him becoming Secretary of State. was that if he did become Secretary of State. that uh he had ties with Russia. He had a history of business dealings with Russia.

And he might be too friendly with Russia. And others said, No, you need a guy like this who's worked with these different regimes and countries around the world. You need someone like that. Rex Tillerson is unable to meet Vladimir Putin has to meet instead with one of his representatives. From what I understand, Putin declined to meet with him.

So, whatever ties he had, they may not be what they may not be what we thought they were, or, or. Worse still, He had good ties, but things have now gotten very ugly between the countries. Right now, we need wisdom. Right now. We need for people to sit down and talk.

as much as possible. Because a lot of lives are on the line. A lot of lives are at stake. and something very intense and ugly could happen. And if it does.

there's going to be a terrible, terrible price to pay.

So to the extent We can talk with Russia right now. to the extent we can back up whatever intelligence says with clarity. and act accordingly. Very important. We come back and have an important discussion about Syria with my friend James Robinson.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. It has been a few weeks since I've had my dear friend James Robinson on the air with me.

And James is not only a recognized national, international Christian leader, But he's one who's built a solid relationship with President Trump as candidate Trump and still as President Trump. and often has some unique insights for us in terms of Things that he can share about Mr. Trump himself.

So James, welcome back to the Wana Fire. Thanks for being with us today. Uh good to be back with you.

So James, are you going to be able to do that? Did you still have an open door to the President? Are you still able to communicate with him or high-level members of his cabinet? Or has that door shut to you?

Well, I'd say it's become more difficult for us to find those times But I'm still able to communicate with him, and I'm often asked what I see for spiritual. Temperature as and how would I describe it? And I would describe it in these terms. I believe that he is very fertile soil. to receive seed that is sown.

And so the question will always arise What kind of seed is being sown in his mind and in his life? And I think that's of critical importance. And I was able to watch the effect of good seed sown. And then if exposure to light and water. as with the gospel and as with Christians, then the fruitfulness uh becomes obvious and abounds.

So that question remains to be revealed. but he is fertile ground and he has yielded clay in a potter's hand. The question comes, will the potter be the father of lies? Or will the potter be the father of transforming Sure. And uh I have watched uh his effect to the positive.

The power of transforming truth and of good seed sown. And he responds, I've I've never seen him With with individuals who sow wise and thoughts where he wasn't, not he was not only respectful. but receptive.

Now, I don't know. all of those who have access to him now. and all that they are sowing. But one of the last times that we heard him speak after a rather startling moment. the attack uh in uh Syria.

we heard a man not only referring to wisdom, But speaking with what sounded to be a very wise position and statement. and several references to God. And things important to God where it did not sound like mere traditional religious rhetoric. I was quite pleased and did communicate that The best way I can through some of those quotes to him who are basically at his side. That his demeanor and communication was quite.

impressive in my opinion.

Now We can get into the discussion of uh you know, all that's going to happen in Syria. I actually sent word through whatever sources I still have access to. to both the President and to Secretary Timmerson to read the article on the stream by uh Jason Jones and John Smirk about how mister Trump and our leaders should consider the situation in Syria in light of what has taken place in Switzerland. Quite a remarkable article. And I'm trying to To inspire uh the kind of um provocative interaction that causes someone to sit down and consider the kind of insight that these very bright young men put before us.

All right.

So this is an article, friends. It got my attention as well on stream. org. I post several articles there a week. And John Zmirak is one of the top writers on the stream.

He was with us last week. Always amazing insights. Together with Jason Jones, who's been a pro-life leader. Among other things in the body. And together they wrote an article.

encouraging the administration, encouraging leaders to look at Switzerland as a potential model For Syria.

Now, when you first see it, you think, what? That's two completely different cultures, peoples, mindsets.

So what are they actually proposing in this article?

Well, you have to look at it and realize that we are actually talking to some historically informed individuals. Who've paid the price to really look things over. And the tension there, the religious tension, was undeniable in Switzerland. It was deadly. And yet, be not accepting a centralized government that overreached But had limited power, which our founders envisioned and put in place, which we have just almost totally nullified the effect of.

They did something that amazes people, and it just shows a very sensible approach. to a very tense situation. where people don't understand the principles That we understood and our founders understood. They just simply don't even want to consider it.

So when you consider setting up these different areas of rule, which we should have more here in America, that we're a local community. is the one closest to oversight and decision making. And one of the problems we've got, Dr. Brown, is the fact that the greatest unit for national strength. Is the family unit?

And then those families together as a community, a community like a city or. Township or a town and a county and a state, and then nationally, you influence and you give, you demand responsibility and accountability. you can not only see the problem you're addressing, but you can see whether or not it has a positive effect. Whereas when the oversight comes from a great distance, it's proven to be totally ineffective and foolish. and obviously unsustainable.

And these things have to change. I spent time this morning talking to some of the Obama leadership. In the African American community, are concerned about the urban community and the tension and what to do about it. And we just had the most incredible conversation.

So, one of the big things that Dr. Brown, you've seen me do now from the time we've been friends. Is to bring people together who never would have even been seen together. much less sit down at the table of reason. And I'm I'm hearing in my prayer time.

is as though it's shouted from Sinai. Come to the table of reason. Let's reason together. That was an invitation not merely to an Isaiah, but to a nation. that God wanted to bless and bless others through.

Let's come to the table of reason. And that's what I'm really encouraging our leaders to do. I mean, it's obvious they didn't do it with health care. They didn't even get their own group together, so to speak. Their own family didn't have a family meeting.

And it is just sad. And I believe this president has the intestinal platitude. He's smart enough, determined enough, fearless enough. And I believe he can lead Our national leadership to the table of reason.

So that's what I continually encourage our leaders to do. And I would say to everyone who believes in prayer. Pray for heaven's sake that they will do it. and not respond like God had to tell Isaiah they're going to respond, even when you tell them the truth. And the same way that Paul had to reference what was going on back to Isaiah in his own day.

So, it's just terrible what's happening when we don't come to the table of reason.

So, let's get there. And James, you have been at this for decades now. bringing people from different backgrounds together. And the normal fear is well when you do that it's going to bring compromise. And when you do that, it's going to uh destroy your own values.

And sometimes you can't work together, but there are plenty of cases where we can if we'll just listen to each other. We'll just humble ourselves. If we'll say, okay, I'm not the only one in the room with something to say. It's amazing how many gifts there are there. With the state of the nation right now and the division between Republican and Democrat, and even the divisions within the parties.

You actually have hope though, based on what you've seen over the years, that people can come together. For the good of America, correct?

Well, they must come together. Jesus didn't pray to myths when he prayed for supernatural unity, beginning with a relationship with the Father. And you've been with me for now well over a year, and you've watched these settings where you've watched these different diverse groups in the room. I I think you would testify you've never seen me compromise a biblical position. At the same time, I have been able to inspire an open, honest communication.

Would you agree? Oh, absolutely. And and folks that I wouldn't have thought of working with before because I would have just assumed we had certain differences. I've been shocked by how much we have in common.

Well, if we love, you know, God is love. He can't be anything but that. Love never fails. And it'd be nice if we would just really try that. You know, here's the thing we've got to understand.

You can't get lawless people to keep perfect laws. We got 10 perfect laws, and lawless hearts break them.

So we know there's no substitute for the gospel. But I'll tell you what, you can sit down and show people that if you don't want all hell to be prevailing in every direction around you. and just living in this hot environment. That's intolerable. then then please come to the table of reason.

And let's do things together. In other words, let's don't defend our prejudice and our positions or our pet territory. Let's actually look at the people's problem and let's address it in behalf of the people and let's scrap the things that don't work. And they are not sustainable. And let's do something that works for heaven's sake.

We can. Do it for people's sake. We can do it. Yeah, and as you said We must, hey friends. Let me encourage you to pray.

James Robinson because he's still speaking truth. to the leaders of our nation. Pray for grace on him. Pray for open ears for our president, cabinet, and others. And go to the stream, stream.org, for rich, rich information that will equip you.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Hey, can I talk to you from my heart? for a moment. I mean I do every day. Two hours a day, five days a week.

Some of you just get a few minutes of that, some of you get a half hour a day, some all two hours. But yeah, I'm always talking from my heart. I just want to step back. and share a few thoughts with you. All right.

Well we have to have awakening in America. we are heading in the wrong direction in so many ways. We must have awakening in America. We are not talking about taking over the culture. And bashing people over the head with the Bible and penalizing them if they don't go to church on Sunday or if they don't pay tithes or if they don't believe what we believe.

No, no, no. That that would be a theocracy. where religious leaders lead the nation and enforce a certain religion on the nation, like you have, for example, in a country like Iran. All right, that's not what we're advocating. When Jesus returns to He will set up his kingdom on the earth.

Yes, and then we will have a theocracy. And I will rejoice in that because we will have God ruling over this world. And the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the seas, and people beat their swords into plowshares, and there won't be war and things like that. You're you're not going to have epidemics of serial killers and rapists and all kinds of injustice, that's not going to be happening. All right.

Yes, there will be people that still will want to rebel against God, and when given the opportunity, they will do so. But that's the theocracy we pray for when Jesus returns and establishes his kingdom on the earth. backed by divine power. Until then, we're not looking to set up a theocracy. What we are looking to do in America is see great awakening, revival in the church, because it starts with us, with the people of God.

as we wake up. to spiritual truth as we turn away from sin. as we give our lives over to God afresh, as we seek him earnestly in prayer. as we cry out for mercy on our nation. As we do these things, Then God has mercy.

And God turns our hearts. And then the reviving of the church brings awakening to the whole society in many, many ways. How so? Because God's people come alive and they start shining brightly. God's people start living differently, that has a massive impact.

That's one. Two we start reaching out afresh. and people are confronted with the the power of the gospel. And they start to get changed, transformed, radically. dramatically And now that brings about another wave of radical change, and then the presence of God is there, and there's more of a God consciousness.

This is what happens in awakening. I was reading a book about the struggle that evangelicals are in right now for the nation. And I just don't have the title in front of me, and we've had a complete Internet crash in our building because of which I can't just pull it up and access it for you right now. But the authors, it's a solid academic book written very accurately and clearly, but with good spiritual insight, both together. And uh It's talking about how the awakenings of the 1700s and early 1800s shaped America.

and changed our culture. And made the church such a dominant force in the 1800s. And of course, with the church being a dominant force in the 1800s, ultimately led to the abolition of slavery. in our in our nation. But and and overcome the overcame the parts of the church that were pro-slavery.

tragically and and and sadly that they that any Christians were pro-slavery. But What happened was the awakenings. really affected the nation. In fact, Some of the concept of separation of church and state. Care about in a healthy way.

Because the colonies as originally formed were religious colonies. And you might have had: here's a congregational colony, or Presbyterian colony, or a Baptist colony, whatever. And then various states were formed. And they were formed based on the constitutional religious model.

So the the churches were state funded and things like that. And there was less separation between church and state, which, on the one hand, okay, great, there's freedom of religion. On the other hand, it was constricting. in that, you know, what if you were not a Christian? Or what if you were a Christian of a different denomination?

It could be difficult for you in that particular state.

So, when our Constitution and Bill of Rights establish that um There will be no state religion. and that there will be no national religion and and the same way the government will not interfere with the practice of religion, what it was saying was the whole nation will not be Presbyterian. The whole nation will not be baptized. The whole nation shall not be Catholic. There will not be a state religion like you had the state church of England.

At the same time, the state will not interfere with the practice of religion.

So you went from freedom of religion to the radical freedom from religion that we see in America today. But the fact is, as God moved in the awakenings, the nation was. Changed, the culture was changed, the mindset was changed, the influence of scripture in school that continued powerfully into the 1800s. role of the church And we are not crazy to think God could do that again. Yes, in many ways, we're in worse shape than we've been over the centuries, in many ways, undeniably so.

the things that take place in our society today that that not just technologically, but in other ways, would have been virtually unknown. in society in in America's past. On the flip side, With God all things are possible. each time there was awakening, each time there was revival, Uh it was because things were dire. You don't need an awakening and revival unless things have gotten into a very bad condition.

either the the church is growing dead with traditional religion or the world just becoming so worldly and people falling away, Either way, times were urgent, people cried out for revival. I've got a quote from what the 1720s In America where it said you know, it looked like religion lay dying. It's over for the church. I mean, that's that's how things look. And then God moved.

That's what we must have again.

So yes, yes, yes, we are involved politically. How much time does it take to find out who to vote for and vote? How much time does it take to write to a congressman if there's a concern? Maybe some of us get involved in the local school board. Maybe some of us run for office, but all of us can be involved on a basic political level.

And we do what we can socially and morally. We stand. Of course, We're standing up for the pro-life movement. And we're working to help women not have abortions and to provide them with hope and with a better way for that child. Yes, yes, to all of those things.

But in the midst of it, and yes, we are sharing the gospel one by one.

So you can win our neighbor. Build a relationship with them.

Someone new moves in, you know, bake them some.

Well, cookies, I'm gonna eat those anymore, you know, but just bring them something over, you know, and befriend them as good neighbors should and do. And then see if you can lead them to the Lord. We do all that at the same time. We must prioritize prayer for awakened. We must prioritize prayer for our vibe.

We must prioritize prayer for God to visit the nation and shake the nation because nothing. short of that will turn the topic. Nothing short. of great awakening will turn The tide. That's why we must give ourselves to it in fervent prayer.

Hey friends, remember to check out my latest articles and videos. At thelineoffire.org. They will impact you. They are life-changing. They are informative.

And they are there for you at thelineoffire.org. And when you become a torch bearer this month, We are pouring back resources into you that will stir your heart for revival and renewal. Together, we're making a difference. So take advantage of the special offer this month when you become a torchbearer. Join us today.

Go to thelineoffire.org.