Who Is a True Believer? Jihad in America? And Answers to Your Questions

You know, the price of sin is heavy, but God's plan of salvation weightier still. We've got a lot to talk about, plus your calls today. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. That's 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Is it true?

Bill O'Reilly out? at Fox. over allegations of sexual harassment. Drudge Report, headline, news, all red. Big print, Fox News rocked O'Reilly out after decades on top.

If true, A lot we can learn from it. This is Michael Brown. Great to be with you today on the air. 866-348-7884. Let me tell you what we're going to do today.

I have a bunch of things on my heart to talk to you about regarding sin, salvation. Oh, some insights. This is not just going to be some preacher throwing the Bible at you. You're going to get a lot of insights, I believe. And regardless of your perspective, I think some sobering insights and some great encouragement as well.

And then I want to put a question out before you, which is. What makes someone a true believer? When is a line crossed from being a true believer to being a heretic to being an apostate, to being outside of the faith. My colleague Hank Hanegraaff, at one point years back, we did spend a good amount of hours together and became good friends. Haven't seen each other in years, but have mutual respect for one another and remain colleagues and friends in that sense.

Hank is now Eastern Orthodox. And his broadcast has been removed from a number of stations because of that. When people say that he apostasized, he left the Christian faith, I don't accept that, I don't believe that. Nonetheless, I believe that there are plenty of people in the Eastern Orthodox Church that are not believers. There are plenty of people in the Roman Catholic Church that are not believers.

And plenty of people, for that matter, in Baptist churches and others that are not believers. Where do we draw the line? Should we draw the line? Is it up to us not to judge an individual per se, but to set forth standards based on Scripture? We're going to talk about that as well.

866-348-7884. Also. Also, If you have any question of any kind, as we do on Friday, often we can't get to all the calls on Friday, and many of you are unable to. call in on that day, but For anyone that's able to call today, if you have a question, even if it's random, even if it's unrelated to our normal subject matter, we're going to open up the phones and take some questions as well. And I'll probably get to some emails.

To get uh to dead to dead. What word was I trying to say? Today? Yeah, today's a pretty easy word, but why did I what was I I don't know what I was gonna say, but it came out wrong. I'll have to replay that and rethink that.

But I'll probably get to some emails today as well during the show. 866-66666666666 34878. Uh three suicides have gotten my attention as well. And again, tying in with the price of sin. I want to talk to you about that.

A terror attack in Fresno, how that's being reported. And a political race in Georgia. I've got comments on all of that. And more. And I wrote an article.

It'll probably go live in the next 24 hours. about the trans that God really cares about. Mm. Every day we hear the news transgender. We're hearing now more about transracial.

Transabled. Transpecies Transhuman What's the trans that God really cares about? I wrote about that last night and this morning tweeted about it as well. That should be live within the next 24 hours. And interestingly, my video, short video on is there a pre-trib rapture.

It's getting a lot of attention. If you haven't watched it, go to thelineoffire.org and just click on the digital library. You can watch it there, two minutes and change, then weigh in with your comments. We're just getting started on the line of fire. Yeah.

God of light, hear our cry, send a fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome, welcome to the broadcast 866-348-7884. By the way, Tonight. For the first time, if you're listening live on this Wednesday. The 19th, tonight, for the very first time, we will be airing the line of fire TV broadcast. That's right, on NRB TV.

Yeah. You can watch it if you have direct TV. Tens of millions of Americans have direct TV. If you have direct TV, you can watch it at. uh 6 30 or hang on let me get the right time we just sit down at e-blast about it let me make sure i have the right time on this but it's tonight and i'll tell you exactly what nrb tv is it is our radio broadcast A Friday broadcast, the QA show, with Hebrew word for the day and other special features.

That's right. It is a radio show made for TV. with your calls with introverse with interesting controversies and questions. And then a special two-minute teaching Hebrew word for the day in the midst of it. It's going to be a real blessing, I believe, to many.

And let's just see. 7 o'clock. All right, 7 o'clock time. tonight. Channel 378 on DirecTV.

Tune in with your family right in our radio studio. I think you will thoroughly enjoy the broadcast. You can also watch it on the NRB TV website and And Also very exciting, our Word on Fire broadcast is now airing on God TV. The first show was Sunday, where I shared my testimony from LSD to PhD. And this week, I will be preaching the gospel loud and clear.

Trust me, your heart will be stirred. Your heart will be stirred by these messages specially recorded for you. on God TV. That's Sunday night. At 6.30.

Sunday night at 6:30. All right, and on DirecTV, that's channel 365. If you don't have Direct TV, just go to God.tv, God.tv, and you can watch the live stream there. Or again, if you have direct TV, that's Sunday nights at 6:30. Watch it with your family.

Trust me, your hearts will be stirred. I believe. God really gave me grace to bring his word clearly on these broadcasts. That's channel 365. And tonight, 7 o'clock, NRB TV, Direct TV, channel 378.

We've been working hard on these, and I believe you'll really be blessed by the broadcast. Let us know how you enjoy the show when you watch. 866-348-7884. And if you don't get our regular newsletters, you say, man, I would have loved to have had an email about this.

Well, we sent out an email today. If you didn't get it, it means you're not on our e-list.

So to do that, go to thelineoffire.org and sign up for our newsletter, and we will send you, absolutely free, a great eye-opening e-book, Seven Secrets of the Real Messiah, that's simply for you signing up to receive our e-newsletter. All right. Let's talk for a moment about Bill O'Reilly. The Reports are being shared loudly enough. New York Magazine has a report by Gabriel Sherman sources Fox News has decided Bill O'Reilly has to go.

And there has been a lot of discussion behind the scenes about this. You say, well, I haven't heard anything. Isn't he the most highly rated guy on Fox? Yes. Consistently, doesn't he beat the competition at CNN and MSNBC?

Yes. Hasn't he been one of the most steady broadcasters for decades? Yes. Like him or not, he was He has been steady. He has been clear.

And he has been an important voice. Again, whether you like him or not, he's a major media figure. I read that he had just recently signed a contract for twenty million dollars a year for his broadcast. Yeah, it's kind of unimaginable money to to the rest of us, but that's what you get paid doing what he does. On vacation now.

Supposed to come back on April 24th. But according to these sources, he's out. You say, well, why? What happened? I haven't been following this.

Well, there are allegations of sexual harassment. Allegations of sexual harassment Such as a woman working at Fox and with the potential of going up the chain there, and allegedly Bill O'Reilly saying something like, Well, if you want to get ahead, you know, come to my room tonight or something, or inviting them to come to his hotel room, et cetera, to be with him. And then, again, allegedly, when they wouldn't do it, then he came against them in the broadcast or something, or he made inappropriate comments, whatever. He said, Yeah, well. Anyone could make up stories like that.

I understand that. I understand that. I would not be surprised if there are all kinds of stories against all kinds of public figures because of people who hate them. I've read all kinds of stories about Barack Obama. I've read all kinds of stories about Donald Trump.

Sure, I've read stories about me. I mean, not on the same level as these other individuals, obviously. You know, bogus things about me. Not like this, but just other junk that's completely untrue, that I believe this or teach this or whatever.

So sure, there are going to be people that are ladder climbers. There are people who are going to just try to bring attention to themselves and say, well, someone did this to me just so they could have their moment in the sun and get in the news and things like that. I understand all that. The problem is From what I've read, it's not denied that Fox has paid out something like $14 million. to different women.

who brought these charges against Bill O'Reilly. $14 million over the years. And the only comment he released was that when you're in the position he's in, that lots of charges are going to come against you. I'm sure that's true. But if you're innocent Why pay?

I know it can be easier. I know sometimes I can't relate to it. Can you relate to paying out $14 million? Obviously not, right? But let's just say that was like $14 to somebody.

and you got somebody harassing you and lying about you, and if you give them $14, they walk away.

Well, you might do that you don't want the hassle of it right you don't want this person bothering you If $14 million to them is like $14 or $140 to us, well, maybe no big deal. But the problem is. When you do it. There's an admission of guilt with it. Why are you paying someone off?

And once you do that now it's on record that you paid them to make something go away. There's some admission of guilt In that.

Now, maybe, look, again, maybe there are circumstances that we don't know about. Maybe this will come out six months later that the man's completely innocent. I'm not here to make a moral judgment on Bill O'Reilly. All right, I have no contact with him, don't know him personally, never been on his show. Supposed to be years back, and the news changed, and I wasn't.

But so that's it. I mean, that's the closest contact I had to Bill O'Reilly. All right. I have friends and colleagues that are closer to him, but no, no contact with him. I'm not throwing him under the bus.

I'm not defending him. I'm not saying that these women are making these things up. I'm not saying that he's guilty. I am saying, though, that once you pay money, once you settle a case.

Someone comes against you with false accusations and you settle it, you look guilty. And they can always say, why did you settle it if it wasn't true? You say, yeah, but but then that just opens the door for people to endlessly, you could come against you, you could be in lawsuits forever. Yeah, on the flip side, once you pay off, then it just opens the door for you to endlessly be paying people off. Say, hey, I'm not guilty.

And you have the legal resources to smash most of those that come against you because they don't have that much in the way of legal resources.

So if you're a big shot, Use your legal resources and when people falsely accuse you, expose it. I don't mean crush the people, but expose the case, the falsehood of it, and then people will stop doing it.

So again, we don't know anything more than what's being reported in the news. You would assume it's serious enough. Advertisers have been backing out. Uh leaving O'Reilly, and that's obviously the biggest thing, money. for for Fox News, for the Fox Network.

But here's here's the issue here. If, in fact, He is guilty. I don't believe there's accusation that he raped anyone or forced someone to have sex with him or anything like that. But if in fact there was legitimate sexual harassment. If in fact he abused his power and there was legitimate Sexual harassment.

What a sobering lesson for all of us. We talked last week about the Governor of Alabama. And here's a man married fifty years, a public servant for decades and decades, a medical doctor, governor of a state, Uh uh uh Old Christian. and destroys everything for an adulterous affair. brings shame to himself, destroys his marriage, Bring shame to his state.

bring shame to his family. Not that it's unredeemable. But it's an ugly, ugly mess. What if Bill O'Reilly ends up being remembered not for his run of Of t TV excellence. Again, like him or not, just talking about as a TV man, highly, highly rated.

What if he's not just mainly known for that, not mainly known for his New York Times best-selling books? Knows the guy who would have stepped down because of Sexual harassment scandals. Yikes. Yikes again. Is it ever worth it?

Angel World. Rohard of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Let me put a picture before you, alright? Yeah. Go to your favorite restaurant.

a restaurant that is very expensive, very classy. And you only go there once every several years because it's so special and it's so expensive. And this is just a very, very special family occasion. You go to that restaurant and you order your favorite meal, whatever it is, your absolute favorite. Favorite meal.

And as you're about to dig into it, you see crawling out from under your food a giant cockroach. Can I ask you a question? Are you gonna enjoy the rest of that meal? Are you going to always feel funny about. that meal at that restaurant.

And are you going to be in a hurry to go back to that restaurant?

Well, you've been there several times over the years. There's never been a problem. There's never been a problem with anybody else going, you've never heard about that.

Well, well, that doesn't matter. a pretty gross picture. I know I'm trying to illustrate something. That's what sin can do to you. That's the reproach it can bring.

That is the defiling of a good character it can bring. And that's why we have to do our best to To live above reproach, especially. If we're representing the Lord, And representing causes of integrity. I'm not saying Bill O'Reilly was representing the law, I'm speaking to those of us. We say we're followers of Jesus first and foremost.

This is Michael Brown, and you are listening to the line of fire. 866-348-7884. Now, the headline on Breitbart.com. Strong right-wing website, conservative website, it says this. This is their take.

Report O'Reilly Dennett Fox News, then it says activist left gets monster scalp. Is is this Is this The the work of the activist left. In other words, are these false accusations, brought by enemies Of the conservative Fox network and Fox is not conservative in many ways, I understand. but Fox News primarily conservative. Enemies of O'Reilly.

bringing down the number one conservative T V Talk host, again, in terms of ratings. who's been in the spot for over 20 years with Fox. Is this the activist left bringing him down? That's a scary proposition. Or is it The activist left and others that hate O'Reilly.

Mm-hmm. basing their attack on true charges. And if in fact they are true. charges, what lesson is there for Us. This is sobering stuff.

This is stuff I've thought about for decades. Because I've watched other people destroy their lives. People in ministry. People anointed by God. people called by God.

Why am I so sure it can't happen to me? Why are you so sure it can't happen to you? Why are you so sure that that little flirting with someone is not going to lead to something worse? Why are you so sure that that flirting itself? is not going to get you in big trouble.

I mean, we need to be sober about these things. And this is not about being legalistic. That's music is a cop-out. Oh, you're so legalistic. You don't like strychnine in your food.

Not i no, no, that's not legalistic. That's loving life. That's loving life. You're so legalistic. When you when you drive down that mountain road with that 300 foot drop off the side, you're so legalistic.

You you you stay within the speed limits. No, that's called wisdom. That's not legalism, that's wisdom. Oh, you're so legalistic. You won't just have meals alone with someone of the opposite sex and someone your age, a peer, a friend of the opposite sex, and you won't hang out.

You're so legalistic. No, that's not legalistic. That's called honoring God. If you're married, honoring God, honoring your spouse. honoring that other person by not putting either of you in a position of getting too friendly or a position of temptation.

Look. 1 Corinthians 10, 12, let him who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. Let him who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. He or she, same thing. Yet the next verse tells us That God is faithful and won't allow us to be tempted above our strength, but will with the temptation.

Will the temptation make a way of escape? That's true.

So if you are seeking to follow the Lord, You are seeking to honor him. He's not going to allow you to fall into a situation beyond your strength. Look. I believe that the devil, yes there is a real devil, I believe that the devil given the freedom could destroy any of us at any time. In other words, there is something he could present before us.

There is something that would hit us at a weak moment. There is something that he could come at with the full force of his being, and when we are not ready for it, and he could potentially take us down, but God's grace protects us and shields us. Look, I have heard of colleagues, or I shouldn't say colleagues. I've read about it with other Christian leaders. where they would have someone when they got to their hotel uh the s someone else would go in the room first.

They would have somebody from the hotel go in the room first to make sure there was nobody in there. You mean someone's gonna attack them? No. Be some lady in there waiting for them. Yeah, uh no no I've I've never been presented with that, okay?

and, God willing, if I was presented with that and there was some lady waiting and I opened the room, I'd run out down the hallway. you know, and make it as loud as I could. You know, make clear, hey, I'm out of here. I'm out of here. All right.

But God knows, God knows. in a weak moment. Maybe you used to struggle with alcohol. And you don't have any in your home. But now you're discouraged and a little depressed.

And what if right there at that moment there was your favorite alcohol just appeared sitting there in a glass? Would you be able to would you be able to. Say no to it. Club. Maybe yes, maybe no.

But see, you've done what you know how to do by getting it out of your house. All right. getting it out of your house.

So that's the wisdom there. And God's not going to let something happen to you where the perfect temptation comes at the perfect moment when you're seeking to honor him and you're totally vulnerable, but you're seeking to honor the Lord, but you're vulnerable at a weak and raw moment. God's grace is there. God's protection is there. I believe that.

But if you think, hey, nothing touched me, nothing could touch me. I'll never fall. I'll never mess up the way those slobs messed up. I'll never do something stupid the way that one did something stupid. Friend Take heed, lest you fall I remember years ago when one famous T V preacher was exposed for sexual sin and another famous T V preacher went after him mercilessly.

And I liked the other guy. I liked the guy that was preaching hard. I remember thinking, oh, don't do that, man. Don't go after this guy like that. You set yourself up for fall.

You're setting yourself up as so righteous and so perfect. You're setting yourself up for fall, man. Shortly after that, he was exposed. Let us with the fear of the Lord. Humble ourselves before him and say, God, I recognize others have messed up.

Give me grace, give me wisdom, to flee from sin. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Hey, it's a simple biblical principle and it's wisdom. If you play with fire, you're gonna get burned.

Maybe not the first time. Maybe not the second time. But eventually you get burned. It it just works out like that. 866-348-7884.

Let's go to the phones. Des Moines, Iowa. Chris, welcome to the line of fire. Shalom, Doctor Brown. How are you today?

Doing well, thank you, sir. Um Boy, you You really hit the nail on the head. Uh I um Um deeply, deeply devout follower of Jesus Christ and his teachings. I was a evangelist. I mean, I was leading people to Christ, I mean, daily.

I mean Uh And I had different types of little ministries going on that I I did and um You know, to the point, and I did. I fell into that sin. I mean, I thought I was the man too that never was going to happen to me. I loved the Lord so much that I would never. Ever.

allow that to ever happen to me and it did. And uh and I'm telling you and and the heartache and the And the brokenness and the grief and the shame and guilt that is attached to it is unbearable. I mean, it is. It's only by the grace of God that I'm here today because I mean, it was It was horrible. And I've just finally, after about five years, I've been able to forgive myself.

and uh to really start feeling Uh Start feeling, you know, Christ's love and knowing that He loves me and forgave me. But the hardest thing was forgiving myself and. the pain I caused others.

So, thank you, dear brother, for your candor and for sounding a word of warning for our listeners. When you say, This sin Uh when you say it what what specifically are you are you talking about? I'm an adulterer. I mean, I'm I'm exactly what God says in the Bible. I am an adulterer.

I I you know, I and I the thing it is, is, you know, some people can say, Oh, I didn't know, or I didn't really you know, I wasn't really I did know. I have no excuse. I have no excuse at all to anybody for what I did. I can't say anything. It was me, and I can promise you, there are consequences of that sin.

severe consequences of that thing. And uh We have war wars in Proverbs. I mean, God wars throughout the Bible. And yet, and I love the Lord with all my heart, my soul, my mind, I love the Lord, yet I fell into it.

So so Chris, how did the door open? Um You know, it started out very innocent. Again, exactly. I'm here describing exactly. I mean, it's like you're talking about my life.

It just started out innocently. And it wasn't even flirting. It was just. Um You know befriending somebody that was in a time they they were going through a crisis. And I befriended them.

And see, the thing of it is. I minister to women. I mean, I mean, I mini I minister to women in jail, a jail ministry. And never ever anything inappropriate. Nothing ever anything unworthy of God was ever discussed or and the women I dealt with in in jails and stuff were very appropriate, very appropriate women many of many gave their lives to Christ.

And so You know, I guess I put confidence in me. I guess I don't know. Yeah. And so, you know, if somebody was really struggling, going through a crisis and um And so I, you know. I ministered to him.

I and I thought and and and initially it is how it started out. Started out very innocent, started out very, very much on the up and up. But like you said, you know, you l I I left that door open. I I opened up a door I should never have opened. And um Yeah, Chris, w we've we've got a break.

Can you can you stay with us for another moment? Sure. Thank you. Things will normally start if you're a follower of Jesus. They start.

innocently as opposed to asking for trouble. That's common. This is what happens. But then, at a certain point, you realize: wait a second. I'm crossing a line.

Maybe there's a little pleasure in it. I guess maybe I'll only go this far, I won't go further. There is forgiveness, but if you're in the midst of this right now, friend, This is a warning from God. Maybe you can stop. Before it's too late.

It's fire we want for fire we want. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us on the line of fire, 866-348-7884. No matter how far you've fallen, no matter what you've done, If you turn to God, if you ask Him to forgive you and wash you clean through what Jesus has done on the cross for you, She acknowledges your guilt and asks for forgiveness so that you can lead a new life. God will forgive you. And if, as a believer, you have fallen short, you have sinned, you disobeyed.

Yes, you can be cleansed, you can be washed clean. And God's a Redeemer. He can bring good out of evil. That which was meant to be a stumbling block by God's grace can become a stepping stone. but without full acknowledgment, without full recognition, We will get nowhere.

He who covers his sins will not prosper. Proverbs 28. But the one who. confesses and forsakes them. will find mercy.

We're speaking to Chris in Des Moines, Iowa. Who's had the Courage to call in and share his own story. Chris, you say that relationship with someone that you weren't married to, another woman. started innocently enough. You were used to ministering to women in prison and never crossed any lines there in your interaction.

At the point you realized That something was inappropriate, did you deny it? Did you think, ah, it's fine, it's nothing? You know, the way we're acting towards each other is fine, it's nothing. Or did you know something was wrong but thought, well, I won't cross any lines beyond this? Um, yeah, that's pretty I guess that's pretty much it.

I mean, I you know, I mean. I know God's word. I knew when I crossed it. I've gone too far. And I I remember I remember exactly.

I remem in five this time over five years ago, I remember exactly. I thought. I w I wait. I went Why couldn't I have been like Joseph? Why couldn't I have fled?

Mike what you know when Power first wife would ask him, why couldn't I do that? Why didn't I have the strength? The wisdom to do that. Why did I? allow myself to be sucked in, you know.

Proverbs, you know, he talks about like a you know A steer led to slaughter. I mean, I I knew it. I knew I was led to spot. It is the most horrible. horrible, darkest time of my life.

Uh Oh, you know, 'cause I know the stigma goes with it. You know, people you know, God forgives. But but no a lot of most people do. I was an elder in a church. And Um R and honestly.

I mean, those those people literally I mean, they washed their hands on me. And I understand. I understand. I mean Uh I was supposed to be a representative of God. I was supposed to be a godly man.

A man of wisdom and understanding, and uh And I mean and I have to pay all I failed miserably. You know, that's why I said, I said, you know, God says that when you're tested and you pass the test, you get the crown of life. And I remember her crying. I mean, I cried my mom I cried every day. And that cry said, Go, God, what happens when you fail the test?

I failed this test. My doubt I mean and um Yeah, I I see like I've I I've seen other ministers and people involved, especially when you claim Christ as your Savior. I mean it like magnifies it. It's like people There are people that don't love the Lord, and I mean, they like literally relish the fact that, oh, you call yourself a Christian. Look at you.

You're no different than, you know, I'm just. And the enemy of our souls, Chris, is there to. gang um uh gang up on us as well and then our own our own consciences condemning us. How long was it? before you were able to break free from the relationship itself.

Um To be I'll be honest with you, I didn't. My my my wife divorced me, which she should have. Is that every right? Um And um Actually, I'm I'm I'm married to this lady now. And ah.

All right, so so Chris.

So what what has happened now? between you and God. and the woman you're married to, what's happened between her and God? Actually She loves the Lord too. She loved the Lord then.

Just you know. I mean See, that's what I'm saying. I mean, I know it. I mean, I I can hear your voice. You're like, wow.

You know? What do you I yeah, I know. I know. Um If I can tell you I I know you and you got a lot of people want to talk to you. I felt lower.

I feel like human garbage. I feel like somebody ought to set me out to the curb. I thought I'm that guy that committed that one sin too many. I'm that one that has gone too far. that even God's grace can't cover.

Well, in the midst of all this, I have an older son and he died. Oh, no. And un unexpectedly, my older son died. I mean, it's like David. It's like David.

I'm not kidding. The first time I first time my my now wife and I decided to go back to church, I said, I gotta go to church. I gotta get back in church.

So I found a huge church where I thought nobody'll know me. I just want to kind of slink in. I don't want nobody to know me. You know, I'm so I'm so full of shame and guilt. I mean, I I felt like I was wearing it like clothing.

I felt like like I was tattooed with it. And so I'm sitting in this church one night. And it's a huge church, but I felt like a light was on me. And I remember sitting there looking at all those people in there, and I thought, I wish I could be anybody in this church but me. I wish I could be anybody but me.

And so the the minister walked up. And and that nice message was about David and Bathsheba. And I'm like looking at God and like, God, are you kidding me? I mean And but you know what? There's redemption there.

And so my son died. And I remember sitting at the table and my son, okay, I mean this is a long my son Told me one day, he calls me, he said, Dad, I gotta tell you something. I just wanna tell you, he goes, I'm gay. Because you probably don't love me anymore. I saw you kidding me, Rick.

I saw you my son. I said, I love you to all my heart and my soul. There's nothing in this world that can separate you from my love. Nothing, Rick, can separate you from my love. I love you no matter what.

I'm proud of you and I love you.

Well, my son died, and I'm sitting at the table crying over my my son. I'm crying. And I felt like God said, Chris, You're my son. I know what you did, but I still love you. Nothing's changed how I love you.

I still paid for those things. And so honestly, that was a step something to start turning on my life. But I'm telling you what, there's no quick recovery. There's no like.

Okay, I'm better. I I feel better. I feel better about myself. Oh.

So Chris, let me ask you this, and I'm terribly sorry to hear about. uh about your son your your son's death and the the overall pain that you've experienced. And again, you're taking on the chin and saying it's the result of sin. You said the words earlier, I'm an adulterer. And again, I didn't know Your current situation, the way you were discussing things, and I was going to address the fact that.

If If you were, if you did commit adultery. and you've been forgiven by God and repented of it, then Even though you might feel that thing, that's that stain is still part of your resume in a certain sense. that the right thing to say was I was an adulterer, I committed adulterer. I committed adultery, but that's not who I am. I'd never done it before.

I've not done it since. I committed adultery. It was wrong. I sinned. God's forgiven me.

And I'm on the path of restoration. But you said it present tense. Why did you say present tense? Yeah, I listened to your program. I don't know speech a year ago.

I've listened to you I listen to you every day almost. And you said something one day, and you were discussing this about divorce and stuff. I don't know if you remember. Yeah, well, I mean, this has obviously come up many a time. Yeah, and so this so I'm and w the word you said Cut me right because I am a divorced man.

I committed adultery. I'm remarried to the woman I committed adultery to. And I thought. I mean, I really and I'm not no, I'm not condemning your words. I'm not doing anything like that.

I'm just saying it really, really made me again, I've stopped and really look at myself. And uh, you know, um after after my wife divorced me and everything, I be I became homeless. I went from a really, really good paying job, living a really nice life to being homeless, penniless, And feeling that. And everybody has shunned me. My f everybody turned against me.

Family, everybody. Nobody want nothing to g do with me. I wish I was all alone. I've never been so alone. And I mean, Satan was having a field day, kicking my guts out.

Yikes. I could barely imagine. I was all by myself. I was alone. I was all alone.

And especially if if you know Scripture, you're thinking, man, I'm just living out the consequences of sin and and adultery. Yeah, well, let me let me just say say this to you, Chris, from from my heart. You stand and fall before God, not me. Right. You stand and fold before God.

He's our ultimate judge. He's the one to whom we give account. What I would just say is this. I know the story of David and Bathsheba. David not only committed adultery, but he murdered.

And then after their first child died, The next child they had was Solomon. And his was given the name Yedid Yah, Beloved of the Lord. along with Solomon. And this is then part of the genealogy of Jesus.

So I know God's a Redeemer. I know God's a Redeemer. I think it's really important is for you and the woman you're currently married to. If you haven't done it, to sit With a Godly pastor, and lay everything out and both of you say we only want what God wants. If there's redemption here, Reconciliation with the woman your wife is impossible.

See? If God can redeem this relationship, So be it. If we have to be separate, So be it. I think it's essential. that you do that, then this way you can move forward.

cleanly and clearly. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Hey friends, I want to take one more moment in light of Chris's call. to talk about these very, very weighty issues. And Chris, thanks for continuing to listen prayerfully. Number one.

Please hear the warning. From our brother? Please hear the warning. That sin is not worth it. That adultery is not worth it.

That they fling is not worth it. That that romantic excitement and thrill, that that sexual connection, that whatever it is. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. It's never worth it.

Ever, ever, ever. The one guaranteed outcome of sin in the end Maybe after an hour, it may be after a day, maybe after a year, maybe after a lifetime. The one guaranteed outcome of sin in the end. It is not worth it. And Chris is shouting that out for the world to hear.

And again, Chris, bless you for your. courage and candor to call and to share these things openly. And yes, it's a shame sometimes the church doesn't know how to treat us or respond.

Sometimes we're honored, and it's hard to deal with us in our sin.

Sometimes people just run from us in our in our moment of greatest need. We need to do better to truly restore when there's repentance and help people come to repentance. But it's essential, Chris, that you have an absolutely clean conscience Between you and got. And that the woman you're married to. has an absolutely clean conscience between you And God.

If you are unsure if your relationship is blessed by God. If you say, well, how can it be it's the fruit of adultery or it's ongoing adultery in God's sight? then the only path is to separate and and live chaste lives. before the Lord, and have a clean conscience.

Now, some would say Well, look, there are examples in the Bible where where God God can Do the unthinkable. that sin is committed, David commits adultery with Bathsheba. Then David kills Bathsheba's husband Uriah. Has some killed in cold blood? Then he takes her?

Then the the child they have dies, but then the next child they have is Solomon and he becomes David's successor.

Now, yeah.

Solomon is infected with David's adultery and does even worse. But still, Solomon had choices. He made his own choices, and he sinned, but. But God blessed. the relationship of David and Bathsheba afterwards.

And and in that sense she's part of the genealogy. of Jesus. God's a Redeemer. Can he redeem a situation like this? Let's say your your wife divorced you, let's say she remarried, She had no interest in reconciliation.

And and now you moved on. You're you're both single. And you've repented before God, can God bring you together?

Some would say that's a ghastly thought. It couldn't be. Others would say, well, it happened with David and Bathsheba. Or there are principles in Scripture where God's a Redeemer. What I'm saying is You need to be at a point, sir.

Will you know that you know that you know. Not just that you're forgiven for the past. Of course the blood of Jesus forgives. Yes, just like when your son said he was gay, and you said, Of course I love you. You're my son.

Well, certainly God's heart towards us all the more when we've blown it, when we've sinned, that's when we need His grace the most. When we've blown it and fallen short, that's where we need the Father's love the most. And that's where we need to come running in his arms. Just like the prodigal son, he was ready to greet the father, but the father came running towards him to embrace him and celebrate. That's God's heart towards us when we're truly repentant.

What you need to know is for sure. between you and God. Is your relationship blessed? Is it right in God's sight? Is it according to Scripture?

If so, then your conscience should be completely clean. and the devil should have no room for accusation. If it's not right then you need to deal with it accordingly. And God will give you the grace, and there's nothing Yeah. than a clean conscience.

before God.

So Chris, may God guide you. May God guide you and your current wife. In terms of what is right in his sight, may God give you godly counsel. and godly friends And may you live in a way, when I next hear from you, maybe a few months down the line, may you be completely free. From any of these shackles, For any of these demons of the past.

From any of this. before God, may you be completely free. Whatever that means, He's your Father. he'll let you know, and his ways are best so I am not Sitting here as your judge. I'm not sitting here as your jury.

I am not telling you in absolute terms. Maybe some say, well, Mike, you should. I'm leaving this, Chris, between you. And God, but I'd encourage you. to have godly counsel.

Someone that you know, a leader that fears God and loves God and reverences His Word. Sit down. The three of you. together. and say, Lord, we only want what's best in your sight.

And he will guide you. and he will bless you. as a result. Can we just pray, Lord, I pray for your very best for this situation. For everyone involved, for your very best plan.

And I pray, God, for those listening right now. that are right on the edge of adultery, right on the edge of immorality. right on the edge of crossing a line that could bring terrible, terrible pain. Lord, grant them repentance.

Sober them up. Shake them up right now. And for those who are in sin and see no way out, may your conviction get so intense May your presence be so strong that they have to run from that sin back. into your arms. We ask for it, father.

In the name of Jesus. And Lord, I thank you. that Jesus died for every sin we ever committed, for the most ugly, despicable, embarrassing things, for things that we'd be mortified if the world knew about. Jesus died for them so that we could live for you. May it be so.

In Jesus' name. Hey, thank you, Chris. for listening. and may God's grace and truth be yours. Friends of Obviously you can orchestrate this.

I I Don't know who Chris is. and never spoken to him to my knowledge before. In any case This was the right day for this call. This is the right day for us to hear from someone first hand and to hear the pain in his voice. and for us to recognize If it could happen to Chris.

It could happen to you. it could happen to me. Those are not just empty words to me. I am fully aware of the reality of which I speak. which is why I lean hard on God's grace Which is why by his grace I don't play with Fire.

And wherever there are lessons to learn from the mistakes others have made, for things I've watched and observed in my own life, let us all learn and take heed. Let him who thinks he stands take heed, lest he Fall. And for those who have fallen, there is grace, grace, grace, and redemption in the Lord. There is forgiveness. There is new life.

Friends, let us minister to you. Let us be a blessing to you. Sign up for my newsletter. Go to thelineoffire.org. Sign up for the newsletter.

We've got a great free e-book we want to send you. And take advantage of the latest articles, videos. They'll stir your heart. They'll bless you. They'll equip you to stand strong in the service of God.

You know, the price of sin is heavy, but God's plan of salvation weightier still. We've got a lot to talk about, plus, your calls today. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. That's 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thank you, friends, for joining us on the line of fire.

You know, you read things in the news. You hear things in the news. And I don't know about you, but I'm often processing those things spiritually. I did today when I heard about the suicide in prison. of former New England Patriots tight end Aaron.

Hernandez. And then I got a note about another suicide. mass shooter in a mall in Washington State. Suicide in his cell. Mm-hmm.

And then the Facebook killer, the man who published the kids. posted a video of him murdering a man in cold blood in Cleveland. And then when caught by police being chased, he killed himself, shot himself before he could be apprehended.

Something struck me about these three suicides all within a few days. And I want to make some spiritual observations, some life-giving spiritual observations. You're listening to the line of fire. Michael Brown, thank you so much for joining us. First hour.

was a Excuse me, pretty intense hour. If you missed any part of the broadcast, you can catch it later by going to the line of fire. org, lineoffire. org, and you can catch the entire two hours of broadcasts. We are now in our second hour.

But if you have a question of any kind, if there's anything you want to ask me about, like you normally would on a Friday, To give a little space to those that like to call in with your comments and questions of any kind. If it's appropriate for Christian Radio, it's good for us. 866-3666. 348. Seven.

Eight. eight four is the number to call. Uh okay, quickly. Quickly, before we get into any of that. And a few other things I do want to talk to you about.

So there was a shooting in Fresno yesterday. A black man killing white men. This case the color matters because it was race related. This man had previously murdered and posted on Facebook hatred for white men. and then indiscriminately shot Three white men.

and uh was shouting Allahu Akbar. as he did.

Now Reports of this said He was shouting, quote, God is great.

Well that's true. Allah Akbar. means God is great. technically means God is greater than. When a Muslim says Allah, Allahu, They're saying God.

That's how they speak of God. And yes, that's his name, in that sense, Allah. But Allah is God for a Muslim. and in many nations where Arabic is spoken, For example, if you hear Egyptian Coptic Christians speaking, when they're speaking about God, they speak about Allah. That's the way they say God.

Now whether it's right or not, there's a whole debate about that, that's another subject. On the one hand, that's what he was saying. Again, exactly God is greater, akbar meaning greater, greater than the question is greater than whom. Obviously, it was greater than the other gods. That was what was meant in the early days of polytheism.

But It does mean, translate it, God is great. But when your average American hears that He was saying God is great before he shot people.

Well, no, they need to know that he was saying Allahu Akbar. They need to know that this was not just a racist act, that this was a racist act that was also tied with radical Islam. The guy could be completely demented, but he was making a Islamic-related comment.

So on the one hand, yeah, it's true, it means God is great. But on the other hand, your average American, they say oh, it's tr Shouting, God is great. Was he Christian or what? No, no, he was shouting Allahu Akbar. You're shouting God is great as a Muslim.

And to not report that clearly. That is to mislead. We'll be right back. Shake the new sound, change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire, 866-348-7884.

Later in the broadcast, I want to raise the question of who's a true believer? Who is a true believer? My apologetics colleague and radio host colleague Hank Hanigraff has been removed from a number of evangelical stations since he has announced his conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy. And you might ask the question, well, let's say you had a Roman Catholic radio station. would they have evangelicals on?

Would would they do that? Would they have it would they have an evangelical on? as as a major voice on that station. Would if an Eastern Orthodox radio station would they have an evangelical voice on? Those are fair questions to ask.

I I Came against those who said that Hank Hanegraaff has apostasized, that he has left the faith. Obviously, I differ with some of his new beliefs as someone who's Eastern Orthodox, but. But Um where do we draw the line? Where do we draw the line in terms of who's the true believer or not, and then how do we respond? accordingly.

You might say, and we'll get into this more a little later. You might say, look at it like this. If if you had a church, congregation, Would someone pastor lead that church that was not in essential harmony with all of the fundamental doctrines of the church? Obviously, not. Obviously not.

So, just like you would not bring in a conservative Baptist. to lead an Eastern Orthodox Church, you wouldn't bring in an Eastern Orthodox Uh priest. to lead a Southern Baptist church, right? Obviously, you'd you'd have conflicts in beliefs and practices.

So, is it the same with radio? Radio host has a certain spiritual pastoral responsibility if he's on a Christian network. You could argue that, but we'll come to that in a little while. I just want to address. these recent suicides.

So Aaron Hernandez Top tight end playing with the New England Patriots. How many? Athletes. and would-be athletes and want to be athletes make it to the NFL. Tiny, tiny percentage.

And how many have a successful career, even a successful year in the NFL. Tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny percentage. And yet he made it to the big time.

Now, NFL is a is is a violent sport. Violent league. And uh many in NFL football are There they have great contracts, they make a lot of money, but they don't reform their lives and they have a lot of trouble afterwards. And some have trouble while playing, and some destroy their careers while playing. And so that's what happened to Aaron Hernandez.

And he got convicted for one murder count, serving life in prison for that, then was found not guilty. in the past week of double murder charges. And then today is found dead in his cell. According to the reports, he hung himself in his cell. And then, again, got an email today, just some news items being sent to me.

about the mass shooter in a Washington Mall killed, was it five people? and he was found dead in his cell. allegedly committed suicide. And then again the report of the of the Facebook killer. And he shoots himself to death once the police are chasing him and have found him.

A side story to that, by the way, is he gets found out going on McDonald's drive-through. He had trimmed his beard so that he hadn't completely shaved his beard. And it goes from McDonald's drive-through.

Someone will see you. When you go by a drive-thru, at a certain point, they will see you. You can give your order. Right, and someone hears your voice, but at a certain point when you're paying or picking up your food, you're going to be seen. But he wanted his Chicken McNuggets That's another story.

Yeah. So here's the issue. God knows what happened in the lives of these men. if as reported they all took their own lives, God knows what happened. But there is often a cycle that goes like this.

You do something unthinkable. You do something. that you can't ever imagine you would do. And once you do it you're smitten with guilt. Not godly repentance that leads to life.

not godly repentance that leads to change. Not godly repentance that leads to reformation or turning yourself in. or coming clean, or getting right with God. Not that. but with a miserable guilt and remorse.

And you can't shake the thing. and you finally get to the point of absolute hopelessness, The pain is too great to live with. The consequences are too great to live with. Life itself is not worth living. and you commit suicide.

Now, I understand. that people commit suicide for many reasons. And I understand that each of these three men could have had different reasons. And again, only God knows what was going on in their hearts and minds up to this point. But for sure, This is something that happens.

all too often. The act is committed And once it's committed, There's no way back in your mind. You think that there's no way back. I could never fix this. The shame is too great.

No one will ever forgive me. I've hurt too many people. Even if they did forgive me, I've hurt too many people. I could never forgive myself. or the torment, whatever it is.

It reaches that point when someone takes their own life friend. The same devil who tempts you. The same devil who tells you you want to do this. You need to do this. You have to do this.

The same devil who tells you you'll never get caught. The same devil who tells you it's no big deal, whatever the temptation is, however, it comes packaged. That same deceiver, After you sin, now comes to condemn you. That same deceiver, when I say Satan, whether it's Satan, whether it's demons. You know what I'm talking about.

The same one that says, no big deal. Who cares? You never get, come on. Come on. Just just do it.

Do it. Or you have to do it. or the guy in the midst of a rage, shoot the per whatever the thing is. Once reality strikes Once you come to your senses Once you think, oh my god. What?

have I done? What have I done? That same deceiver is there to say is no hope. It's too late. You might as well just end it.

And then the person goes ahead and ends it. They can't face the consequences. You know, someone shoots a bunch of people and then shoots themselves. They can't face the consequences. They they did what they did and it's unimaginable.

Now again. Only God knows what's happening. Only God knows what happened in each life, but I'm sharing this for a reason because some of you. or in that place of hopelessness and despair. and you're even suicidal.

You're in that place where you're thinking, what's the point? What's the use? I blew it. Look. I'm not going to mention names and I'm going to be very, very vague intentionally.

Uh but There is There was some years ago A Christian leader. If I mention his name, I would say the vast majority of you wouldn't know his name. But you would have known the organization he was associated with. Many of you would. But if I mentioned his name, the vast majority wouldn't know who he was.

He was reportedly uh involved with a young girl. I remember reading the reports to my absolute shock. I I met that the brother one time and spent time with him. He seemed to be a fine man. Whatever weaknesses he struggled with, whatever sins were in his life.

There was a report that he was being arrested. For sexually abusing A girl. and n not someone in his own family. Another girl. And I thought, Oh, no, not him No, you're hoping please let it be a false report, ple you know, no.

And the next report Kill themselves. Oh gosh. And he was the leader of of an important ministry. Not to leave it like a pastor. That type of leader, but more of an executive leader of a ministry.

And I remember thinking, it must have just been the pain was unbearable. It it it must it must have just been that that Uh the shame of it. what he did to his family. what he did to the to the ministry. what what the the repercussions were going to be.

You couldn't live with it. And rather than face what was going to be coming. He took his own life. Again, God is his judge. God is his judge.

I don't say this to throw stones, and that's why I speak of this in such general terms. Because I don't want you to. think I'm trying to disparage the memory of someone that's gone from this world now. But There is always A way out if we'll come to God. We might go to jail.

We we might lose our family. But we don't have to lose our soul. or enough to lose our life God is a Redeemer. And no matter how horrific the act. There is a place of forgiveness.

And perhaps this this brother He could have given the rest of his life to secret prayer in prison. for sexual abuse victims. pray against human trafficking. to let his story be known as a warning. May God help us friends.

Suicide. It's not the best option. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us. Yeah, I know this is pretty heavy stuff. I I understand. It's pretty heavy stuff.

But friends These are realities. The price of sin. Sin is terribly, terribly costly. I don't want to be overly Repetitious. I've said this before, it's an old saying.

Sin will take you farther. Then you plan to go. Sin will keep you. longer than you plan to stay. Sim will cost you more than you planned to Pay It's what sin does.

It's the nature of it. And it it it distorts our thinking. It lowers us as human beings. It perverts us and twists us. makes us stupid.

And then people end up doing stupid things the more sin comes into their lives. Uh they they begin to One lie leads to another, and then more layers of deception and And we become subhuman in terms of the image of God in which we're created. We go lower and lower and lower. We do the ugly things in our humanity.

So The the the fact is that That the Holy Spirit doesn't condemn us, though. He convicts us. As believers, he doesn't condemn us. I taught about this last night to our students at Fire School of Ministry. By the way, to find out about our school, go to fire-school.org.org.

as I was teaching in our holiness class. and teaching about living free of condemnation. explained that condemnation is that Galva coming down saying guilty. as charged. You are guilty away from me.

It's God speaking those words. For example, on the day of final judgment. To some he'll say, away from me, depart from me. People all their lives say I don't want anything to do with God. On that day, he'll say, Fine, depart from me.

Here are the consequences of your sin. That's condemnation, that's damnation, that's doom. That's hopelessness. That's is over. That is never, never, never, never, ever.

what God says to one of His own children.

someone in his family. He may convict us of sin, He may rebuke us, it may sting, we may get on our faces and weep in repentance. We may feel miserable. For days. For weeks we might think of what we've done, and it strikes us.

I mean, just think of how someone would feel. Maybe this is you. You're a believer. You're walking with the Lord. You get a little loose and casual with some of your friends.

Come on, man. What you can't have a drink with us? Come on, watching this game. We can't have a drink.

Well, I guess one drink wouldn't be a problem. You end up having one drink, get a little tipsy, leads to another drink, get a little more tipsy, leads to another drink.

Next thing you're stone cold drunk. Get in your car, driving home. and and kill a child crossing the street. Yeah, that that's gonna stay with you. You repent, you ask God to forgive you.

You you go to court, you're found guilty of vehicular manslaughter. You spend some years in jail. That thing that thing's hanging on you. You've asked the family to forgive you. You've done what you can to make restoration.

You know, God's forgiving you, but yeah, but that kind of thing is going to bite at you and sting. And you remember, you know, one day you see a little kid crossing the road, and you get hit with that again. You think, all right, Father, I thank you that you forgave me. But Lord, I pray for that family. You know, of course.

Of course it's going to happen. But that sentence of condemnation is never ours as believers. That sentence of condemnation is never ours as children of God. It's only ours if we turn our back on Him, walk away from Him, refuse His grace, and go our own way, and die in our sin and rebellion. But as a child of God, that's never yours.

So, when the Holy Spirit comes to convict, He doesn't condemn. Our minds often condemn us, our own consciences often condemn us, friends condemn us, people condemn us. Misreading of Scripture condemns us. Legalism condemns us. But God does not condemn His people.

There is no condemnation to those who are in Messiah Jesus, for the law of the Spirit of life has set us free. From the law of sin and death. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has set us free from the law of sin and death. And and those of us who are truly his, will not live persistently consistently. And without interruption, the way the world lives.

We cannot because we've been born from above, and we will live differently.

So what's the moral of the story? The moral of the story is, no matter what you've done. Come to God don't run from God Run to God. No matter what you've done, run to God, not from God. No matter what you've done, come clean.

and you'll be blessed. Oh, it may be a painful process, it may be a difficult process. But if you violated trust with someone. If if you've worked in a job for years and been dishonest and stealing, come clean. If you've been unfaithful to your spouse, Come clean.

if if if you have betrayed people close to you. Come clean. First, come clean before God. And then pray, pray, pray. and then come clean with that person.

You may need the help of a leader. to be there to help mediate you depends on how volatile the situation is. There may be real consequences to your actions. It may get ugly first, but I'm telling you. God will ultimately bring blessing into your life as you bring everything into the light.

There is no reason to end it all. There is no reason. to put a bullet in your head or to do something else and say there's no hope, there's no reason to live another day. And it may not be the result of sin. It may be the result of hopelessness and depression.

The pain is too great. You've suffered a loss and you haven't healed. You're the one that lost that child that was killed by the drunk driver, and the pain has never gone away. You're the one that had that precious relationship that you're in taken from you. and the pain has never gone away and you feel there's no hope.

I'm telling you, as surely as Jesus rose from the dead as the world celebrated it this past weekend, As surely as Jesus rose from the dead, there is hope. There is a way out. There is a better way. And if you'll come to God in all your pain, you say, I've done it before, do it again. And say, God, I can't live with this.

I can't live with this pain. I'm giving it to you. I'm giving it to you doesn't mean you don't love the person. Because you're not in agony over the loss anymore. It means that life goes on and that God wants you to heal.

Oh, there'll always be that hole. There'll always be that something missing. That's understood. That's called love. but God can give joy again.

God can give peace again. God can give freedom again. God can give hope again. And If you're one of those... Who is guilty?

and and feeling condemned, Come to Jesus asking him to wash you clean. Either he died for your sins or he didn't. Either He paid for your misdeeds, your transgressions, your rebellion on the cross, or he didn't. And if he did, And he did, in fact. Put your trust in him.

Receive Forgiveness. God is faithful and just to forgive us because Jesus paid us. paid for our sins and therefore God can look at us and say, because of what he did. I freely forgive you. And then your life.

can be an example to others. Your life gives you an example to help others. Your life can bring restoration to others as well. Changing topics when we get back, friends. Take this to heart.

If this is for you, may the Lord's grace be yours. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Who is saved and who is not saved? Who gets an Who doesn't get in? Who's right with God?

Who is not right with God? Who is a believer? In God's sight, who is not a believer in God's sight? Michael Brown, welcome to the line of fire. Thanks so much for joining us today, 866.

3487. Eight, eight, four. What prompts me to raise these questions today?

Well, a few things. One, I saw the news that my radio colleague and apologetics colleague Hank Hanograff. Is Losing a number of stations that he is on. Because He is converted to Eastern Orthodoxy. And my friend and colleague, Dr.

James White. fellow apologist has raised the question, can you be the Bible answer man? If you're now Eastern Orthodox. meaning, if you no longer believe in sola scriptura, that scriptures The scriptures alone are our are our Foundation, guideline, basis for faith, not scriptures plus church tradition, but scriptures alone. How can you be the Bible answer man in that respect?

A very fair question to raise. I do not believe Hank has left the Christian faith. I do not believe he has apostatized. I view him still as a brother and colleague in the Lord, yet I differ. with his Eastern Orthodoxy, How far does it go before we say you are now outside the faith?

And is it up to us? To make that proclamation. Another reason this is on my mind is because We post videos on a regular basis and I do teachings on a regular basis. about controversial subjects. And the way some people respond to these controversial subjects is, even to me, after all these years, still surprising.

I mean, I do. I feel bad for the people. I'm being totally candid with you. I laugh, but I feel bad for the people. uh at the at the same time When they will have the here, here's uh Here's one.

This is a debate I did with a full preterist.

someone who believes that Jesus returned in the year 70 AD. and that the resurrection of the dead is a spiritual thing. All right. Dr. Don Preston, a learned representative of his position.

So here's a comment to The debate that we have on YouTube. We have a couple of debates, all right? This is to one of them. Michael Brown is a horrible liar. And I'm saying like this because it's all caps with multiple exclamation points.

He is a Jew who never believes in Jesus. I mean, 45 plus years of taking heed as a Jewish believer in Jesus only to find out that I never believed in Jesus, according to this poor soul. All Jews are traitor like Brown He is a spy infiltrated in the Christian religion to destroy it from inside out. like all the Zionists till now they kill the Christian Palestinians. Blank this Talmud believer He follows satanic culture.

Yeah. Uh-huh. That was posted. And because of the profanity and other junk, it was removed. But oh, yeah.

I mean, all the time I get junk like this. And we just posted a video on is it pre-trib rapture biblical? And because I don't hold to a pretrib rapture, there's some almost want to cut you out of the faith for not holding to that. Oh, oh yeah. Um a abs absolutely.

Absolutely.

So Where do we draw the line? That person who attacked me. Are they therefore outside the faith? Where do we draw the line? Did God call us to draw such lines?

Who are we? To do so, or does the word draw them clearly? We'll talk about that in a few more. Things when we come back on the line of fire. 866-348-7884.

Where do you stand? What's your take on all this? If you're listening on Christian Radio, you say, of course Hank should still be on the air. He does a great job. He said, no, of course it shouldn't be on the air.

We don't believe the same things anymore. We'll talk about it. We'll be constructive, not destructive. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. A friend just sent me this note. Yeah, the first hour talked about the announcement that Bill O'Reilly was going to be out at Fox and if the charges are true against him, there was sexual harassment and things like that. The sobering lessons for us about playing games with sin or thinking something will never catch up with us.

Again, we don't know all the details, everything involved. We haven't heard from Bill O'Reilly himself. We don't. Say yes or no to allegations until you have more facts. Behind them, but yeah, sober, sober reminder.

But Fox, so Fox is officially. Announce that? Otherwise, I've seen reports from New York Magazine that have been widely circulated about it. Yeah, that fueled the content for the first hour of my show, that and a number of other related things, plus a call from a man who had committed adultery and was in agony of soul over it and wanted to share his experience with everyone else. The good news is If we sin fallen short, there is redemption and forgiveness in Jesus.

The bad news is sin is very costly. 866-348-7884. Last week, Hank Hanograph sent me a note. with a link that he had posted, And let me just pull up that link answering the question. Have I left the Christian faith?

All right. Because this is being reported, he apostasized, and people posted that on my Facebook page. Have you seen Hay Kanegraff apostasized this? I don't believe he's apostasized. if he still holds to certain fundamentals.

But Would I consider him an evangelical?

Well, obviously not, based on this. And would I say that he's going in the wrong direction?

Well, of course. Of course, otherwise I'd be Eastern Orthodox myself. And remember, as a Jewish follower of Jesus, As a Jewish follower of Jesus, I reject the authority of the traditions of the rabbis. This was a this was a great issue. Do you accept scripture plus tradition?

According to a traditional Jew, you cannot rightly understand the Hebrew scriptures without the traditions of the rabbis. According to traditional Jew, What he's doing today, he learned from his father, who learned from his father, all the way back to Moses. That's what they believe. and that the reason they observe the Sabbath the way they do with all of the details is because they believe it was given by God like that, now just being applied properly in the modern day. Certain things change, so you know, driving a car, is that allowed or not?

turning on a light, so things have changed in that regard, but they believe that all the principles and how to observe this were given by God to Moses at Mount Sinai. and when they when they put on trilling, when they put on the phylacteries. Right? The prayer boxes on the left arm and on the forehead. They believed that God specifically showed Moses how those were to be designed and passed that on.

So I, with all respect to many of the beautiful traditions in Judaism, And with full recognition, that many of these traditions go way back into antiquity. And some of them, many of them were known in Yeshua's day as well, in Jesus' day as well. I reject the authority of rabbinic tradition. I am sola scriptura in that respect, but not just for the Hebrew Bible, for the New Testament as well, for the whole. Bible.

A Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, believer would have a different perspective. They would say it is scripture plus tradition. One church historian made the comment One church historian made the comment that Roman Catholicism is no more the religion of the New Testament. then traditional Judaism is the religion of the Old Testament. You follow that.

In other words, for both it is scripture plus tradition. and they would believe that there is authoritative tradition. For a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox, quoting Paul's words to Timothy, that the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth. And they would understand that to mean that the repository of wisdom is given to the church, and without the interpreters in the church, you will not rightly understand scripture, and that the mother church is inspired, and with that inspiration will make right decisions and introduce new teachings, and will have divine authority to do so.

So if you say to An Eastern Orthodox believer or a Roman Catholic believer, why do you do this? It's not in the Bible. They would say, well, we have it by church tradition. And then here's how we attach it back to Scripture. And we would say, yeah, but if it's not in the Bible, why is that a core practice?

And that's where we would have our differences.

So Hank. Post it. Yeah. with this confession. And he said, I've never been more in love with the Lord Jesus and his body, the church.

As such, I confess my faith in the deity of Christ. He goes on with detail from there. I affirm the doctrine of original sin. I'm deeply committed to the Church of the Living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth, which I just quoted from 1 Timothy. 3.

And to the Holy Scriptures, the only infallible repository of redemptive revelation, 2 Timothy 3. I love the Holy Trinity. I'm just reading excerpts. I hold to the glorious reality that Jesus rose on the third day, according to the scriptures, ascended into heaven. I'm grateful to the Lord Jesus who for us and for our salvation came down from heaven, was incarnate, the Holy Spirit, and the Virgin Mary became...

Man, I thank God daily that I'm a new creation in Christ, for by grace I have been saved through faith, not of myself. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest I should boast. Ephesians 2. I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the age to come. He says, well, there are many secondary issues.

Genuine believers will continue to debate this side of eternity. I have and always will champion what C.S. Lewis called mere Christianity, an essentials unity, non-essentials, liberty, and in all things charity.

Well well again, I I hear those words from Hank. And I say, yeah, that's why I do not believe he is apostatized. That's why I do not believe that he is no longer part of the body. That's why I do not say he is no longer a true Christian. What I you say is Do you no longer hold to Solar scriptura by by that we hold to the scriptures alone.

There's a statement about the church and scripture.

So why don't you still hold to solo scriptura? Do you still hold to justification by faith? Yes, yes, yes, of course. A truly justified person, a truly born-again person will have works. Yes, yes, of course.

Yes, we prove our repentance by our deeds. Yes, yes, yes. True repentance and true faith go hand in hand. Yes, yes, yes, we're not saved by works. We're saved by faith, but faith will lead to works.

And faith without works is dead. Yes, Jacob James tells us that. But I want to understand where Hank stands exactly on that. Hopefully we'll be able to get together and interact face to face on these issues. But if he's converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, that would say there is a shift in some of these areas.

Now At what point? Is someone no longer a believer? I'm not a Roman Catholic. I I I do not submit to the Pope as my spiritual leader. I do not venerate Mary the way Catholics do.

I rejected Catholic Mass. I'm absolutely not Roman Catholic. And for me, as a Jewish believer in Jesus, I always find it odd when I meet a Jewish Roman Catholic. They find it out that I'm not a Roman Catholic. I understand that.

But I know genuinely Born again, Jesus-loving Roman Catholics. And for them, they don't see a contradiction between their faith and these other issues. I see a contradiction, I see an issue. But if If Mary was superior to Jesus. I cannot see how that person.

is a truly born-again believer. If Mary is exalted more than Jesus, say, well, where would that ever happen?

Well, I. had a picture given to me. But one of our students decades ago when he served as a missionary, In Guatemala. and he came back with pictures, and it was the Easter parade. And marching down the street, they had Jesus in a coffin and Mary on a throne saying, Mary, the same yesterday, today, and forever.

That's heresy! That's heresy And those who hold to that hold to heretical beliefs. I could go down the list with other things, but ultimately God's the judge. Every one of us has an area of ignorance. Every one of us has a blind spot.

Every one of us has an area of lack of understanding. All right, none of us perfectly understand God, perfectly understand the Word, perfectly understand. everything having to do with what it means to follow him. But those are all non-essential issues. For example, I could debate someone about predestination.

And this is when I debate my friend James White, Dr. White, we are debating as brothers in the Lord. I could debate someone about a pre-trib rapture, but we're doing that as brothers and sisters in the Lord. We could debate issues about Messianic Jews and a Messianic congregation. And how important is Jewish identity to someone in the Lord?

We debate those in Jesus. All right. But then there are other areas where a line is crossed.

Now, again, God's merciful. And only God knows how much ignorance he puts up with. Saul of Tarsus Paul says in 1 Timothy 1. that even though he was a persecutor, a blasterer, a violent man, God had mercy on him because he acted in ignorance and unbelief.

So when he saw the light, he followed it. up until the time he had been ignorant. And again, someone may be devout but have areas of ignorance and blind spots, and God will help them grow over a period of time. But is there a line that can be crossed? Obviously.

the denial of Jesus as Lord, The denial of salvation coming through his blood, through his death, through his resurrection. the the denial of his divine nature. The denial of the scriptures is the word of God, any of those things are fatal. For faith. We'll be right back.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

All right, I'm about to go to the phones. Just a couple things very, very quickly. If you have not. Watch my short video. This is a rapture.

Biblical, and then specifically my questions are pre-trib rapture biblical. Please go to my website, thelineoffire.org. And just watch the latest videos there. There are also debates. I've had debate with the rabbis there.

Other videos, is it biblical to pray to Jesus? Videos commenting on things in the news as well. Those are there. Plus my latest articles. All there waiting for you.

My most recent one, America First, does not mean America only. We've got another one coming out tomorrow about the trans. that God really cares about. Hmm. One other comment, the race in Georgia for a vacant seat now that the former Uh rep there.

was given a job in the Trump administration, Health and Human Services Secretary. Um There was a a lot there's a mandate against Trump and this is well, it it it ends up that there was one young Democrat fighting against 11 Republicans and as long as he got 50% of the vote, then he would take the seat and this was looked at as some kind of mandate.

So I I think the whole thing was massively overblown. Turns out he came up short, and now he'll basically compete against the leading Republican candidate, and hopefully they'll all come behind that person. But uh it's to make such a big deal about it to me. Shows some desperation, just my own opinion. I did want to give a brief comment on that.

All right, back to scripture: 866-348-7884. Let's go to Dallas, Texas. Joshua, welcome to the line of fire. How you doing, sir? Very well, thank you.

Well, I was. I heard you were saying, um, You know, that you don't necessarily believe that the pre-trib rapture will occur? Did I hear that right, or did I mistake? Yeah, yeah, I definitely don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. Uh-huh.

Okay, just completely respect. I respect you, and I love your show. I listen every single day. I just wanted to pick your brain on that and why you don't think that with the one. peace being in the book of Revelation, how come the church isn't mentioned?

After he talks about the churches and what he says to them and then the church isn't mentioned until Jesus comes back, Mixed with uh You know, I I drawn a blank on the book earlier in the New Testament where he talks about us being raptured out or harpotso.

So, I just wanted your thoughts on that. Yeah, sure thing. Absolutely.

Number one. Some of the finest believers I know in the world today are pre-trib rapture believers, so I've never divided over that. And they're folks I've worked with for decades, and I don't even know what they believe about it because it's never come up. In other words, it's never affected our ministry, our relationship, our serving side by side. And my own belief is that we should always be ready to meet the Lord.

None of us know the moment of our death. We should always live in readiness, and we should always live with urgency because we only have one life to live. We only have one generation to reach this generation. We only have one life to give back to the Lord for what he's done for us in this world.

So we live with a sense of urgency and expectation. But the fundamental reasons I don't believe in the pre-troop rapture. Comes simply down to this. I got saved in a church that taught it. I learned to believe it.

I read through the Bible five times my first couple of years in the Lord. I memorized probably over 4,000 verses. And when someone asked me to explain the difference between pre-trib rapture and then the second coming, I couldn't. And I thought, isn't that odd? Every other point you asked me to explain, I can explain in detail from Scripture.

I can give you verse after verse after verse after verse why I believe what I believe, but. When you ask me This, I can't.

So I bought books, I mastered the subject, I taught it dogmatically. And then it hit me a few years later, wait a second, you got this from books, not from the Bible. go back to Scripture. And when I went back to Scripture, I thought unless someone came and told me this whole system That the second coming is separate from the rapture, and there's two different events that take place. I would never have dreamed this up in a million years.

And that's always a test for me. What I've come to this belief, what I've come to this understanding, just reading scripture alone. I here's what I understand. at the end of this age whatever happens, whatever goes on in this world. God will be with us in the midst of his wrath being poured out on a sinful earth.

He knows how to keep us and protect us. At the end of this age, Jesus will return in power and glory. What we're waiting for is His appearing. All those who love His appearing. Paul talks about in 2 Timothy 4, Hebrews 9, when He appears.

That's what we're waiting for. 2 Thessalonians 1, when He comes in flaming fire, taking vengeance on those who don't know God. We're waiting for His glorious appearing. When he appears, we will be caught up. to meet him in the air, so I do believe in the catching up.

But rather than him turning around and Going back to heaven, we turn around and accompany him back to earth.

So, as far as the book of Revelation, First thing is chapters 2 and 3. He's addressed in the ecclesia. He's addressing believers in Asia Minor. He's not addressing directly someone today. By application, we look at it like that.

But through the Spirit, Jesus was speaking to seven different churches in Asia Minor that existed. Uh in the ancient world. And that's the subject matter of the first two chapters. And then throughout the rest of the book of Revelation, it's mentioning the saints. It's talking about the saints.

So that's how God's people are referred to elsewhere.

So this is not a message to the church as a whole. It's just a congregation, seven congregations, Ecclesia, in this city, this city, this city, this city. And now he's not talking to them, but saints are there. Saints are mentioned. Throughout Revelation, even to the point that there's a multitude no one can number that's being mentioned.

Jesus tells us in John 16, in this world you'll have tribulation. But be a good cheer, I've overcome the world. That same word tribulation is the word used for tribulation in Revelation 7, those who've come out of great tribulation. In John 1, John says, I'm your companion in tribulation.

So we're always going to have testing difficulty. The wrath of man, the wrath of Satan are things we deal with in every generation. But in that end, when God pours out his wrath, there'll be protection for us in the midst of it. But we'll be here sharing the gospel, witnessing. And what I'd encourage you to do, Josh, because this is a big subject and I'm answering in a short period of time.

I'd encourage you. to ask yourself the question. If no one told you, that there was this pre trib rapture and then second coming, Would you look at them as two separate events? when you read the New Testament. Would you look at them as two separate things, or would you say, well, when Jesus appears, that's where we're going to be with him?

So do a little study of that. Look at the references to his coming. The Greek word for coming is arrival. Plane is arriving at such and such runway, such and such gate. That's when it touches ground.

We're waiting for his arrival, for his coming. were waiting for his appearing. That's what we're waiting for. That's going to be a public event, not a secret event. And at that time, all of us who are his people will be caught up to meet him.

and we will then descend together with him in glory. He's coming for his saints, and he's coming with him. with his saints. And that's how it's going to work out.

So I believe we'll be glorified. I believe those who are alive, when he returns, will be caught up, and then we descend to earth together with him. as he sets up his kingdom, And those of the survivors of the nations that attacked Jerusalem, Zechariah 14 says will then enter the millennial kingdom. as we have already been resurrected in Jesus. Hey, Josh.

I'm at a time. Professor Craig Keener and I are hoping to write a book together with love and edification on why we don't believe in a preacher of rapture. Maybe we'll talk about this more another day. If you go to thelineoffire.org and type in where it says listen, type in rapture or tribulation, you'll get more info. Hey, thanks for listening.

Be back with you tomorrow.