Two Special Interviews and Dr. Brown's Commentary on the News

Well, the world is going crazy all around us, but we're not going crazy here because we know the Lord. Our heads are screwed on right. We're grounded in the word. Let's do it today, right here. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Welcome, friends, to the Line of Fire broadcast. This is Michael Brown. It is my absolute delight to be with you today. And everything will sound the same on your end, but from my end, it is mind-bogglingly different.

Our team has been working day and night for the better part of the last two weeks to transform our studio here. They've done a massive amount of work. Can't believe everything they got done in a short period of time with, as always, with a squeezed budget. We now have a full-fledged studio for all kinds of video work and what we hope to be getting out to you in many, many different formats in the days ahead. You will see with your own eyes the fruit of it.

So I'm in this brand new experience and want you to join with me soon enough. You'll be able to experience it with me. 866-34TRUTH. That's 866-348-7884. That is the number two call today.

If you'd like to get in on the discussion with me, 866-34TRUTH. A lot of things to talk about today. Things having to do, again, with our president, with the nation, with the nations. A lot of stuff going on in Israel right now that could get very, very volatile, that could lead to the shedding of a lot of blood. And some updates just in terms of my sense of where things are at in the country and in the church.

But first, I wrote about this last night. You can read it on my website, askdrbrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org. Richard Dawkins, the famous atheist, Richard Dawkins, the Outspoken atheist Richard Dawkins. the fierce critic of the Bible, of the Christian faith, of Islam. He was scheduled to speak at Berkeley University next month.

just a few weeks from now. And the sponsors were a local radio station, KPFA. a progressive station, a very liberal station. In fact, Dawkins said that when he was at Berkeley many, many years ago, the two years that he was there, he enjoyed listening to the show on a regular basis. They invited Dawkins to speak at Berkeley.

and then cancelled out. when they discovered that discovered, became aware of the fact that people were hurt and offended by his tweets against Islam. They wanted him to come in and do a science lecture, and a science lecture only.

Well, a bit of a problem there.

Somehow they didn't know that Dawkins has been a God basher for years, and bashing the Christian faith for years, and bashing the Bible for years. Or perhaps That wasn't the issue. with an amazing display of yet another extreme double standard, We see it once again with our own eyes, the progressive. the the tolerant side, right? the so called progressives, I should say.

an incredible double standard. No concern. about dashing the Bible. No concern about bashing Christians. That's okay.

That's fair game. Bash the Bible, you're a hero, But bash Muslims, you're a zero Bash the Christian faith, we'll cheer you. Bash Islam will jeer you. They don't seem to have any problem with what he said about Islam excuse me about Christianity over the years. Doesn't seem to be any problem with that whatsoever.

But... Don't insult Islam. Wow. Dawkins himself said: look, you've got no problem with me criticizing Christianity, but I can't criticize Islam. Amazing.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us today on the line of five. This is Michael Brown. Delighted to be with you. 866-348-7884 is the number to call.

So, I would have no problem talking about Richard Dawkins for a moment. I would have absolutely no problem whatsoever. If this radio station said, listen, we wanted Dawkins to come in and talk about his new book, his science book, we respect him as a scientist, but we fail to realize how offensive he is to so many people because of his attacks on the faith. I think there's if they said, you know, we just don't think it's a good idea, he's so volatile and controversial, and we just wanted them to talk about science, but we know that when he comes, there are these other associations and we made a bad decision about inviting him. That's one thing, although you'd still think it's a little naive.

Little bit naive, right? that you don't know that he has these views and you haven't factored them in in advance. But what I find all the more shocking and the reason I wrote about it is because they don't seem to have any issue with him bashing Christianity or bashing the Bible, bashing the gospel. They don't seem to have any issue with that whatsoever. Here's perhaps Dawkins' most famous statement, Professor Richard Dawkins' most famous statement about the God of the Old Testament.

Are you ready? And may God bring him to repentance for speaking such words in ignorance. I hope it's in ignorance. He said, the God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction, jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving, control freak, a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic leader, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filiocidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochi. capriciously malevolent bully.

That's from his God delusion book. Did K FPA or KPFA, excuse me. Did KPFA have any problem with that. Not that they spoke of. Dawkins once wrote: Isn't it always a form of child abuse to label children as possessors of beliefs that they are too young to have thought about?

In other words, Parents teaching their children religion can be a dangerous thing. Did the organizers have a problem with that? Apparently not. This is what they said. We had booked this event based entirely on his excellent new book, Dawkins' excellent new book on science, when we didn't know he had offended and hurt, in his tweets and other comments on Islam, so many people.

Oh, so they certainly knew, if they knew anything about Richard Dawkins, they must certainly have known that he is perhaps the world's best-known atheist, or the man best known as an atheist, and as a basher of religious beliefs. They must certainly have known that. I can't imagine what world they would live in to not know that, to only think that he was a dispassionate scientist and researcher or something like that. And he came to world attention outside of the scientific community with his God-delusion book. That's where I took that quote from, his attack on the God of the Old Testament.

And by the way, through non-believing eyes, through unredeemed eyes, through eyes that were basically reading the Bible without any insight, any knowledge of who God is, I don't understand how you could have all these wrong views about him. I remember before I was a believer in my drug days going to going to high holiday services with my with my family as I was required to. We would all go and I'd be reading the prayers in the prayer book and I remember thinking to myself, what kind of ego trip is this God on? I mean, who does he think he is? We're supposed to say these words, yeah, it's in my idiocy and my foolishness and my lostness.

But from the perspective of an unredeemed human being, who does this God think he is? He's a monster. Yeah, people may see it like that. But For KPFA, here's what they said. KPFA does not endorse hurtful speech.

While KPFA emphatically supports serious free speech, we do not support abusive speech. We apologize for not having had broader knowledge of Dawkins' views much earlier. And what again got them to cancel them out? the fact that people were offended by his tweets about Islam.

So, Dawkins said this when he wrote an open statement to the radio station: I'm known as a frequent critic of Christianity and have never been deplatformed for that. Why do you give Islam a free pass? Why is it fine to criticize Christianity but not Islam? This is Dawkins asking this question. I actually retweeted one of his tweets.

He's got what, like two and a half million followers on Twitter. Again, remains very, very influential to many. Dawkins tweeted this out the other day. London Gay Pride March, police happy with Jesus' gay banners, but banned the Allah is gay banner. and then he called it KPFA grade hypocrisy.

So here you had a council of ex-Muslims, right? Ex-Muslims of Britain, atheists, free thinkers, humanists, ex-Muslims taking a stand for reason, universal rights, and secularism. They wanted to march in the London Gay Pride event and have a sign saying Allah is gay. And the London police said no. You're not going to do that.

No. That's offensive. We won't have that. Jesus is gay, no problem with that banner. Come on, does that expose the hypocrisy, the double standard, or does it not?

And it begs the question again, why why is the left always siding with Islam? Why does the left have no problem bashing the Bible, bashing conservative Christian beliefs, no problem doing that whatsoever? But it's going to defend Islam at every turn. and Islam at its core. Is far more conservative than the Bible is, and Islam at its core has a violent base against those that differ that ultimately does not come through Jesus and the New Testament.

Here, some recent tweets of Dawkins. April 2015. Here's a video of him exploding at the BS in the Bible. Or this just from last month, where he posts again, God, the most unpleasant character in all fiction. Did none of these tweets concern KPFA?

Appears not. Here, one commenter on Twitter said this. Kill the infidel, beheadings, enslaving women, taking children as wives, etc. are not abusive.

however accusing these disgusting beliefs is. Did you get that? That the beliefs of radical Islam. They are they are not offensive. They are not abusive.

But to point them out is offensive and abusive. You know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of when I went to publish A Queer Thing Happened to America in 2011. I went to publish Queer Thing Happened to America. And Uh Nobody would touch it.

Three publishers subsequently apologized to me, and one or two publishers I spoke with in advance, and we agreed it wasn't a good fit. But nobody's willing to touch it. And they also said the title has to change, although I use the word queer there because it's so widely used, mainstream for, what, since the early 2000s, queer eye for the straight guy and all that's an old hat now. An article in Associated Press 2003 said queer is now hipster mainstream.

So I used it because it was a non-offensive term and I used it obviously to convey a point. But Everyone said title has to change. Most said the material is too controversial.

So for the things to actually happen in the society That's okay. For people to do these things for Gay Pride par parades have certain features That are unacceptable. for various things to be going on in the schools. business and all that. That is That is.

Acceptable. To talk about it is too controversial. To expose it is too controversial. Dawkins wrote this, I have indeed strongly condemned the misogyny, homophobia, and violence of Islamism, of which Muslims, particularly Muslim women, are the prime victims. I make no apologies for denouncing those oppressive cruelties, and I will continue to do so.

So Dawkins has condemned what would be called the anti-progressive aspects of Islam. Yet for this he has deplatformed his speeches cancelled by the so-called progressive left. Once again, once again, the progressive left feels the need to defend Islam. Whereas if Islam was ruling America, there would be no progressive left. It would be silenced.

That is a reality.

So again, I'd have no problem if the radio station said, you know, we invited him to talk about science, but we realize he's just too controversial on other issues, you know, offending religious people and so on, we're going to cancel him out. But to say The tweets against Islam, or where we had to cancel a man, it exposes the double standard of the left. And here, again, a rare time when I'll be saying to Richard Dawkins: hey, man. I agree with you that you have been wrongly singled out. I think your attacks on the Bible are very weak.

Your attacks on Jesus and Christianity are very weak and easily dismissed and easily answered. But Did they have a good reason to cancel you out? I say absolutely not. We'll be right back. Around the new sign, shake the new sign, change the world, change the world, oh God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to the line of fire, 866-34 truth, 866-348-7884.

In a few minutes, I am going to be joined by Dr. Richard Land. He is the president of Southern Evangelical Seminary. He is a leading evangelical thinker. And He will be hosting the annual apologetics conference at SES in October.

Can't wait for that conference. It's the premier apologetics conference in the country, really in the world. Every year, right outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, I'll be speaking this year. In fact, the plenary session I'm scheduled to bring is on my book, Saving a Sick. America, a prescription for moral and cultural transformation.

Then I'll be doing a breakout session on the use of rabbinic literature in presenting Jesus the Messiah to Jewish people. 866-348-7884.

Okay. I do want to talk to you more about some apologetics thoughts as well and give you an update on a debate with a rabbi. But for the moment, let's switch over to Israel. And let me just give you a little background here. When the modern state of Israel was birthed in 1948, the old city of Jerusalem, and other parts of what is now under Israeli control were under Jordanian control or the control of others.

Gaza Strip was under Egypt for a season of time and Egyptian control. And tragically, the Jordanian leaders The Islamic leaders and others trashed holy sites, trashed synagogues. Trashed. Jewish. Cemeteries and things like that.

And it was a very bad time. As the Jewish people knew what was going on in sites that were holy and special to them.

Well, after the Six-Day War, as a result of the Six-Day War, Jerusalem was reunited. It was restored as one, now under sovereign Israeli control. As well as the West Bank and then Gaza Strip. And by the way, to the extent that Israel had control over these areas, to the extent that Israel was leading in these areas, to that extent it was better for the Palestinians living there. To the extent they've been under Islamic control, it has not been in their best interest, in their best welfare interests, and educational interests and other interests, just for the record.

I don't know if folks could dispute that, just trying to look at the facts, honestly, here. All right, so what Israel did, though, is this. Instead of saying, okay, we now have control. of the entire Tampa Mine area. We now have access to the kotel, to the to the western wall.

called by others the whaling wolf. Access to all of these places again. And now we're going to control the area and keep the Muslims out. No, because the Jew the Moslems kept the Jews out. Jews couldn't pray at the wall, the western wall, which is a sacred place re reminding them of the destruction of the temple and a place from which they pray and supplicate God for mercy.

Alright?

So no, no, you can't you can't have that.

Alright, can't have access to that.

Now that Jews had control, rather than saying Muslims can't access the Al-Aqsa Mosque, they gave Muslims access to the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and they prohibited others from praying in areas that would be considered sacred to Muslims. Rather than retaliating, they said, look, you can worship here. And you can even have security control and things like that. We'll work together, but we'll leave this largely in your hands and Palestinian Authority hands ultimately. I'm oversimplifying, but just giving you the picture of things.

Now, if you go today, and as long as I know. As long as I can remember. If you go to pray at the wall, As a Jew or whoever, you have to go past metal detectors. You have soldiers and you go past metal detectors.

Okay? It doesn't matter if you go there every day. It does not matter if you're the most religious rabbi in the world. You go through a metal detector every day, every day, every day. There are no metal detectors to go into the Al-Aqsa mosque.

So Last week, two Israeli policemen, Druze actually, so not even Jewish, two Druze policemen were killed. shot and killed by Muslims going up to pray at the, or Muslims that were going up to the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Because of which Israeli security has cracked down and said we're putting in metal detectors. Remember, they're already metal detectors for the Jews going to the wall. Those are already there, those are already in place.

Okay? So they put metal detectors in place, cameras, and they said, look, we're just going to take over security there.

Well, there has been an uproar in the Muslim world. Hamas calling for tens of thousands of demonstrators. A crisis now in Jordan with the Israeli embassy there. And and it just it's a dangerous time. And in the Muslim world, All you have to say is, the mosque is being attacked.

All you have to say is, we don't have access to the mosque. Or you just spread some lie. or they're Jews going into the mosque and defiling, and you will have an uprising. You will have Palestinian teenagers getting so upset that on the way home from school they decide to stab and kill Jews. I'm not being hypothetical, this has actually happened.

As these lies are spread. many innocent lives could be lost, both Israeli and Palestinian. And therefore, it is crucially important, crucially important, that we pray for God's peace in the midst of it. I'm just telling you: if you know something is about to explode, if we were here in the States and we knew there was a verdict in a trial, and when that verdict comes out, if it goes a certain way, there are going to be riots in the streets, people are going to be hurt, innocent lives are going to be. Innocent blood is going to be spilled, innocent lives taken.

We'd say we should pray.

Well, all the more when we're called to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and the well-being of Jerusalem, because this is the place of final world conflict, all the more should we be sensitive to this and say, Oh God, have mercy, restrain violence, may truth prevail and not lies.

Okay. Have you watched the trailer yet. for saving a sick America. We keep getting comments like, wow, powerful. Can't wait to read the book.

Over 50,000 views of the trailer so far. Have you watched it yet? Have you downloaded the intro and first chapter for free? I mean, you'll read this, you'll think. Man, how do we get where we are today?

It's shocking, it's eye-opening, it's the kind of thing you shake your head and say, oh my, but the whole book. which comes out again in September. The whole book is designed to give hope and faith and practical steps from our culture of death to the rampant sexual immorality to our massive indebtedness and narcissism. one area of society after another, here's the answer in the Word of God, and here's how ultimately revival can bring the final change that we need. I'm not saying that America is going to become a totally believing nation.

I'm not saying that there won't be a lot of decay and rot before Jesus comes. All I'm saying is I believe through the gospel and revival there can be a moral and cultural reformation. And either way, we've got to shine like lights in dark places.

So go to savingasickamerica.com if you haven't yet. SavingasickAmerica.com. Watch the trailer. Download. Download the intro and first chapter for free there.

And if you want to get a signed numbered copy, this is a collector's item, you can do it on our website. Pre-ordered signed-numbered copy at askdrbrown.org. We'll be right back. Uh It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back, friends, to the line of fire.

Michael Brown, delighted to be with you. It's always a joy for me. to speak with Dr. Richard Land. Well-known evangelical leader in America, and for years now, president of Southern Evangelical Seminary, which means host of the annual apologetics conference, which takes place in the middle of October, 13th and 14th of October.

I'll be speaking there. Many of my recent guests that we've had on the air will be speaking there. It's really the premier apologetics conference in America, which then makes it the premier apologetics conference in the world. It's always a delight to speak with Dr. Land.

Richard, welcome back to the broadcast. Thanks for joining us. It's good to be with you. Hey, maybe you could help me sort something out here. I know you're an Oxford grad.

You're obviously very familiar with Professor Richard Dawkins.

So he gets invited to speak at Berkeley, invited by a progressive radio station. Then they cancel him out, saying we weren't aware of his tweets about Islam being so offensive.

So, of course, they've got no problem with him attacking Christianity or the Bible, from what we can tell. But he dare not attack Islam. This progressive station has to cancel him out. Can you give me some insight as to why there is this strange union with the radical left and Islam? It seems so contradictory, but there's got to be some kind of rational explanation.

Well semi-rational.

Okay. I mean, it's it's idiocy. I mean, you know, uh everything that they object to us about is Yeah. Islam. I mean, you know, we believe that homosexuality is wrong.

We don't believe that we ought to throw homosexuals off the top of buildings. Or burn them at the stake. That's what Islam does. Um You know, th they they if if if Islam were to triumph, the first people that they would get rid of are these progressives. Um, I mean, it it is antith totally antithetical to their world view.

And so basically it's first of all ignorance. Secondly, Um they don't see Islam as a threat. United States to their dominance of the culture. They do see us as Christians. Who believe in absolutes and who historically have been um the ones who have provided the moral compass for um the United States and for the English-speaking world.

They do see us as a threat. And so I think that's the main reason. Um They just don't see they just they they they're ignorant of Islam. And they don't see Islam as a threat. They see us as a threat.

Yeah, interesting. And again, it is, as you say, semi-rational. I was always struck when there were marches against Israel. When Israel was fighting against Hamas, there was a march in in Charlotte, North Carolina, and some of the demonstrators included feminists and gays and lesbians, and they were marching against Israel and for Hamas. I know, I know.

It's insane. I mean, you know, they ought to check it they ought to check on the status of women in Islam. Um You know, they're second-class citizens. Um I've said before that if you were going to try to install Serena law in the United States before you could do it anywhere. Anywhere.

even in a community that's 90% Muslim. Before you could put Syria law in place, you would have to amend the Constitution. to take out Article six. Which pro Yeah. Religious desk for office.

you'd have to take out the First Amendment, uh to the Constitution, which says there'll be no governmental establishment of religion, and you have to take out the Fourteenth Amendment, which guarantees equal protection under the law, because women and non Muslims do not have equal protection under the law in Sharia. And frankly, it's very clear in the Constitution. that those things are forbidden Anywhere, not just at the federal level. but at the state level and the local level. They are forbidden.

Yeah, so that's where the the the conflict would have to be between Constitution and Sharia, as other leaders have said and have been criticized for okay. We're just getting started, Dr. Richard Land. We come back. I want to talk about the Apologetics Conference, but ask some broader questions.

I mean, why is it so absolutely crucial? for Christians today to know what they believe, be able to defend their faith, have a biblical worldview. I also want to get Dr. Land's take on some criticism of some evangelical leaders praying for President Trump. We'll be right back.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Friends, I want to encourage you, wherever you are in the United States, to consider making the trip. Over to Charlotte, North Carolina in October for the annual Southern Evangelical Seminary Apologetics Conference. Find out more at conference.ses.edu. It's actually the 12th through the 14th. There's a special day for ladies to start it off.

So October 12th through 14th. And if it's not possible for you to make the trip, you can register to watch online. And it's really a who's who of leaders in the body, thinking men and women, giving presentations that are relevant, time for Q ⁇ A interaction. It's just, it's a great, great experience to be there with Dr. Richard Land, who is the president of Southern Evangelical Seminary and the host of the conference.

Richard, do you know of any Conference really like this has been going on all these years. No, it's no, it's really, it is the gold standard. And, um, It's like drinking from a fire hose. you know and Yeah. be the best one ever.

I mean uh I don't know if you know, but I'm a film buff and we're going to premiere a film. Um the very first time anybody's gonna see the mo the movie The God Who Speaks. a feature length documentary made by the American Family Association. is going to be premiered at the conference on october thirteenth. And it's gonna where it the The film explores the evidence of the Bible's inspiration and authority through some of the most highly respected voices within evangelicalism.

And you know, if I had another life to live and I couldn't be in the ministry, I'd be a film director. And the reason is, if a picture is worth a thousand words, moving pictures worth a hundred thousand words. And I think that we as Christians need to utilize the visual media more than we do. And I'm so grateful that that AFR has done this. You know, we're going to have a debate.

We're going to in fact we're going to have two debates. Is there a God who speaks? Uh we're going to have a debate between Richard Howe and Dan Barker, who is a the co-founder of the Freedom from Religion Foundation. And then we're going to have uh another debate on God's word or man's word from Where must apologetics begin? Uh a discussion between Dr.

Richard Howe and Ken Ham.

So it's going to be a great conference. Of course, Michael, we're excited you're going to be there. You know, you're always uh you get rave reviews every time we have you come speak. And we're also delighted that you're going to be coming. to our God, sex and gender conference.

If people are in the Charlotte area, August fifth. Saturday, August 5th, we've got a God, Sex and Gender. Um Uh conference going on. at our on our campus and Michael Brown's going to speak and going to debate, and we're going to have a a great time. talking about a very timely issue and people can find out how to register for that too.

by going to ses.edu. And they can come. to the Um, God, sex and gender conference and get a little foretaste. of what the annual conference is. To be like, yeah, and in fact, at the August 5th conference, Dr.

Frank Turik and I will be teaming up. We're dear friends. We've spoken at conferences together. I've had him come speak to students at my school, and he's been on my radio show, hosted for me. I've been on his show.

This will be the first time, though, that we're going to side-by-side debate, and it's going to be two local ministers, well-educated local ministers, who are going to take a gay, affirming biblical position. And we'll take the position that everyone's familiar with scripturally.

So there's actually going to be a debate. We're thrilled that folks were willing to do this.

So that's August 5th. If you live anywhere near Charlotte, it's worth driving in a few hours for this one-day event.

Well, 12:30 to 6. 645. Yeah. that you're referencing takes place from 515 to 64. I'm looking forward to it.

Tremendous. Yeah, and we're going to be announcing it a lot on radio and getting word out on social media as well.

Okay, I got an email from an old friend of the family the other day. And they said that they've got a 14-year-old daughter. And this godly couple raising a godly family. They got a 14-year-old daughter. She has just passed through thinking that she was a bisexual.

But she no longer does.

However, she has the mentality that you shouldn't say certain things are right and wrong, that we're just supposed to love everybody and we shouldn't make these judgments. How critical is it that parents have a biblical Worldview that they can pass on to their kids because our kids and grandkids are growing up in a very different world than we grew up in. Yes, they are. They're growing up in a not just a post Christian culture, but a pagan culture. And, um, you know, if you really love people, you're gonna tell them the truth.

You know, it it c it comes down to the definition of love. If you really love someone, you're going to tell them when they're engaged in destructive behavior, uh that uh God does not condone. And it is as clear as as a bill that God does not condone same-sex sexual activity. Period. Period.

Period. And If if Gregor if we really love people, we're going to tell them the truth, whether they uh are offended by it are not. Truth tellers are often considered to be offensive. And you know, I I was just reading an article just just two days ago Um from the economist and uh the um newspaper and also from Uh it was in the New York Times. About um The Horrendous damage that is being done to young people in Great Britain and the United States because of the ubiquitous uh nature of hardcore pornography.

And this the the woman that was being interviewed, uh, was a pediatrician. And teenage girls are showing up. uh in massive numbers in in not not in some inner city, but in a very affluent um county in in Britain, um with um Injuries. Oh. Physical injuries.

From unnatural sex, that these boys have they've gotten their sex miseducation. From hardcore pornography, and they are insisting that these girls engage in this activity, and they're showing up in the emergency room. with physical damage as a result. And uh you know that I we need to you know As one mother said, I've had to have. Toe curling.

conversations with my teenage boys. About what's normal and what's not normal, and what you should never ever experience. Thanks. woman to do, period. And these are not even Christians.

These are just you know, decent moral people. Um There's no question. that we have got to, in age appropriate ways, educate our children and all the other children that we can get our hands on. Um about the difference between a biblical worldview and why we believe in a biblical worldview and why that is best for them. uh as opposed to a pagan worldview.

You can't withdraw this whole idea, this nonsense about the Benedict option. Or you're gonna withdraw. First of all, I don't know how that's how you square withdrawing from the culture as Christians and going into closed communities. How you square that with Jesus' command to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world, I don't understand. Secondly, they are underestimating their enemies.

The current the modern day Visigoths will not leave us in our monasteries. They'll come after us in our monasteries, and they'll try to take our children away from us. Even now, they're claiming that if we teach them what the Bible says, we're making them mentally ill and that we should be declared unfit parents. Yeah, in point of fact, the book that I have coming out, Saving a Sick America, that we'll be doing a plenary session right after it comes out at the Apologetics Conference, I wrote it. Before I knew of Rod Drerer's Benedict Option, I knew a little bit of what he was saying.

And of course, I agree with him about the urgency of the hour. But my book is the exact opposite. Saving a Sick America is the exact opposite of the Benedict Option. But it's saying, not by a theocracy, not by clergy ruling the nation and enforcing religious beliefs, but by God's people living by God's word, we will demonstrate that God's ways are ways of life, that God's ways are better. You know, right now in England, you have secular psychologists saying that we are seeing a tripling of kids coming into clinics saying they're transgender.

And these secular psychologists are saying it must be because of the messaging that they're getting in school. Right. No, it was. Um, the it you know, I look I agree with you. you know, um Benedict option.

has the right. pr the right diagnosis. But their prescription It stinks. Yes, sir. The prescription is to be salt and light.

And you know, as bad as things are, They aren't any worse than they were in the first century. Mm-hmm. I mean Rome was a thoroughly and completely pagan place. And our first century Christian ancestors came in there. and they turn their world upside down.

They didn't do it by going into monasteries. Yeah, and they didn't do it by looking for a convenient option or a feel-good message, nor was their motto, let's make Rome great again. They wanted to extend the kingdom. All right, when we come back, I want to ask you again about the intersection of faith and politics here in America as you've been a leader on the front lines these many years. And friends, once more, go to conference.ses.edu.

Conference.ses.edu. Register today, conference October 12th, 13th, and 14th at Calvary Church. This is right outside of Charlotte, North Carolina. You can hear Dr. Norman Geisler, Dr.

Gary Habermas, Dr. J.P. Morland, J. Wanner Wallace, Dr. U.

Ross, Dr. Richard Howell, Dr. Frank Turek, yours truly, many others. And again, the premier. the world premiere of the film The God Who Speaks.

conference.ses.edu It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire.

Your voice of moral sanity and spiritual clarity. My special guest, Dr. Richard Land, it's always a delight to talk to him. I feel I could go in any of a thousand directions without any preparation on his end, and he'll have some biblical wisdom and some life experience, probably an anecdote as well. The president of Southern Evangelical Seminary and known in many other ways as the leading evangelical in our nation.

Richard, recently you responded to something. I wrote an article about it as well. But a minister, national leader with the NAACP, Reverend Dr. William Barber, was very critical of evangelical leaders who gathered to pray for President Trump. Actually, they weren't even in the White House to pray for him.

He found out they were there, invited them in, they spent time with him, and then surrounded him, laid hands on him, and prayed over him. And he was critical. He called it theological malpractice bordering on heresy, said it was like siding with those that Crush the poor. And I was shocked that he would say those things, especially as a supporter of, say, Candidate Hillary Clinton at the Democratic National Convention spoke enthusiastically on her behalf, and she represents our beliefs.

So, I mean, here you've got the murderous pro-abortion policy of Hillary Clinton. He's supporting that, criticizing evangelicals for praying over the president. What did you make of that?

Well, I I was sort of I was stunned, um, frankly. Um, I was trying to figure out what part of praying for all of those who were in authority. Uh, he didn't understand. We're commanded to pray for all of those who are in authority, which would include the president. And I prayed the same prayer for the President that I prayed for President Obama.

Every day. Which is that God would give him wisdom, God would give him guidance, God would give him direction, and God would keep him safe. Uh and you know the the um I I I find the hypocrisy or the blind spot of people like Reverend Barber to be somewhat amazing. Um you know, he says, well, you know, that the mister Trump's policies um punish the poor.

Well, how about abortion on demand. The leading cause of death. Among African Americans in this country. is abortion. And I'll guarantee you that Brother Barber never says a word.

about what is in effect high tech lynching in the womb. Yeah. The idea That say his objections were if we repeal Obamacare and replace it with Trump care, that there'll be all these implications. And I'm no expert here. I don't know what's best.

I don't believe that either president intentionally said, I want to kill Americans through health care. And they have different approaches and different philosophies on it. That's going to play out, and both have strengths and weaknesses. And that's a whole other debate. But to turn a blind eye to the horrors of abortion and the aggressive policies of President Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and then to attack President Trump and then evangelicals for praying for him, they weren't even endorsing, they were praying for him.

They were praying for him. And, you know, we were there for a workday. And we spent the whole day Um talking with the White House staff and And and saying things to them about things that they needed to do they weren't doing. I spoke up for the Chaldean Christian. Um The being deported.

And I said, you know, the President's got to do something to stop this. And we talked about the need to um for the present to to fulfill his promises to re-energize the inner cities. And in fact, we even suggested, you know, President ought to use his considerable influence to get someone like Ford. to build a huge auto plant in South Chicago and begin to give the young people their hope by giving them job training and and jobs in in a Ford factory. Um We we were not rubber stamps at all.

We were there to give our critique and to give our perspective and we did so all day long. And as you said, Um the President found out we were over there and and asked us to come over.

So we got up, walked across the street from the Eisenhower Executive Office building, and were ushered into the Oval Office. He asked how things were going and how our meeting was going. Then we asked if we could pray for him, and he motioned us around his desk and said, Absolutely. Yeah, so as you've been this close to him, and again, it's so important that folks understand that evangelical leaders are using their influence for good, and they're not just rubber-stamping things with the president. And we've had other guests on that have been close to President Trump that spoke very plainly to him about the gospel and repentance and things like that.

But when we look at our our role here in society and now you're getting uh different ones getting access to to the president uh we've had our criticisms we had our our strong reservations about president trump i was very outspoken against him as uh when he was he was my last choice uh he was uh of the republican candidates he was my last choice and i told them so before i joined the um they asked me if i joined the advisory board and i said well i'd be happy to do so but you do need to understand Mm-hmm. Trump was my last choice.

Now that being said Do you see, as you're with him, we've just got about two minutes, do you see either a fear of God or respect for the Christian faith or respect for these Christian leaders, anything positive that you see being with him?

Well I do. Uh first of all, um he's a very different person in private than He is when he's in front of a camera. He just is. He's more quiet. He's a good listener.

He just is different. And I have seen what I perceive to be some greater sensitivity, greater knowledge. least about um evangelicals and about evangelical faith. Uh my perspective is he seems fascinated. by evangelicals.

I don't think he was ever around many people like us until he ran for president. He's developed a very close relationship with Vice President Pence. who I've known for uh over a almost twenty years. and worked with closely when I was working in Washington, I can tell you that Vice President Pence Is the 24-karat gold evangelical born-again believer. And I can't think of anyone I would rather have.

In a close relationship with President Trump and praying with him on important decisions, I'm told that. The President, when he's going to make an important decision, he wants the Vice President to come and pray with him. Amazing. Just amazing.

Well, that's encouraging to hear. And listen, the greatest reports I could have imagined when President Obama was our president was that God was working in his life and that he was showing great respect for the words of Christian leaders and wanted to pray with evangelicals. That would have been good news.

So, for the critics of President Trump, if you hear a good report, let that be good news because we're all praying for the same goal. All right, Richard, one more plug for the conference. What can folks expect? What kind of subjects are covered?

Well, we're going to cover. We're going to cover the God, sex and gender thing. We're going to cover the evidences for the Christian faith. We're going to uh talk about um uh the evidence for God creating the uh universe. We're going to talk about I'm going to talk about Yeah.

heritage of the 500 years. 500th year of the Reformation. and that everything is based upon God's inherent and infallible word to us. And by the way, if If they register before August the 1st, they get an early bird discount. Which will save them some money.

And also, I just want to once again, I'm telling you, if you're You're in the Charlotte area, you're missing something if you don't come to this God, sex, and gender conference. which is going to take place August 5th at Southern Evangelical Seminary here in Charlotte. and from twelve thirty to six forty five. And if you're interested in knowing more about Southern Evangelical Seminary, and you might want to be a student here online. or otherwise you'd come you can register for our open house which is going to take place from 930 to 12.

prior to the God, Sex, and Gender Conference. Art so friends. All that information at scs.edu. Dr. Richard Land, hey, it's a great pleasure to speak with you, sir.

Look forward to seeing you soon. You sir. God bless.

Alright.

Well, the world is going crazy all around us, but we're not going crazy here because we know the Lord, our heads are screwed on right, we're grounded in the word. Let's do it today, right here. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I want to give you a word of encouragement as we start the week together.

Friends. You have nothing to fear. if you have given your life to God and His truth. Oh, you may go through difficult times You may go through challenging situations. You may find your faith tested, but I want to assure you that the truth sets you free.

The truth is unbreakable, the truth is unshakable, the truth is immovable. And if you have given yourself to the One who Himself is the Truth, You can rest secure. Michael Brown, welcome to the line of fire today. 866-34Truth is the number to call. A little bit later in the broadcast, we're going to be bringing on a special guest with some very interesting insights about our nation.

But I want to talk to you first about some broader issues. Also, Go to askdrbrown.org and check out the latest videos that are up there. Part three, my final response to counter-missionary rabbi Yisrael Blumenthal is now up. If you've got Jewish friends, go there, encourage them to watch. I think it's a tremendously eye-opening debate, and I think you'll see where the truth lies as you watch that.

Video: Is it God's will for every sick person to be healed? Video on who is the real Muhammad, all List it at askdrbrown.org. My latest article: Progressives Ban Richard Dawkins from Speaking and Further Expose Their Hypocrisy. All there at askdrbrown.org. But Before I get into some specifics, I just want to speak to you broadly for a minute, all right?

If you Think that maybe what you believe is wrong. It's very difficult to stand. And if you start questioning things, is there really a God? Is the Bible really true? Are the specific things I believe about Jesus real?

It's tormenting. It's painful. It's difficult. This is not something I've struggled with much in 45 years as a believer, but I had a few very intense challenges and trials through rabbis. Learned rabbis, men that were very nice and kind, but challenged me and challenged me hard.

and challenged me before I had a lot of the answers that I have now and a lot of the knowledge that I have now. And then just constant engagement with those who don't believe. Just a few times over the years, I've been hit and it's been intense. Short season, but intense. I was talking to another friend about that and what I went through, this very severe 24-hour trial one time of doubts.

This person said to me, that's my life normally. I thought, oh, you poor soul.

So I'm not saying anything in a critical, condemning way. No, no, God forbid. God forbid you hear it like that. If you're tormented by doubt, you're maybe in college, university, and you're getting ready to go back to school and you're dreading it because you think, man, my professors are tearing up what I believe and I don't know what to do because I don't want to shut off my mind. I don't want to shut off my mind and just ignore everything and shut off my brain and just close my eyes.

How do I know I'm not deceiving myself? But but when I start to have these doubts, it's so painful. Hey Here's what I want to encourage you. If you really seek answers with an honest heart before God. And if you say, Father, God, if you're really there.

Whichever way the evidence goes, whichever way the evidence goes, I am determined to follow. You'll end up rejoicing in your faith because you'll see the Bible is real, God is real, Jesus is real. Your faith is not in vain. Be encouraged. There are solid answers for all the questions you have.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. You know, I also want to talk to you about President Trump in a moment.

Yeah. And was I wrong about some of my concerns and warnings? We're going to talk about that as well. On the broadcast. If you'd like to weigh in, 866-348-7884.

That is the number two. Call. Before I get into any of that, let me go back to my word of encouragement to you. Last hour, I just had on with me Dr. Richard Land, president of Southern Evangelical Seminary.

And if you know about Dr. Land's background, he has a doctor of philosophy degree from Oxford University.

Alright?

And uh Previously studied at Princeton University. In other words, he's a learned man and he's a thinking man. You don't get into Oxford unless you have certain academic background and credentials. And you don't get a Doctor of Philosophy from Oxford unless you are a capable intellectual individual. And almost everyone that will be speaking at the Apologetics Conference in Charlotte, North Carolina, October 12th through 14th, almost all of them have advanced degrees from highly recognized universities or seminaries, and others are tremendously well proven as great critical thinkers in their field, and their education comes in other ways outside of a formal university setting.

And what we all have in common is we're not afraid to be challenged in our faith. We don't think that the only way to preserve faith is to stick our heads in the sand. We don't think that the only way to hold to our views is to do so in in obscurity without any opposition or any challenge. You know, if if you have a a weak spot, you try to hide it. Let's say that you have a baseball team and you've got a guy that's a good fielder and and he's your best choice right now, say, to play third base, but he is he's a real, real bad hitter.

Well, you put him towards the end of the lineup.

So he gets lets hits. And the thought is that the greater production is coming from earlier in your lineup. If you have a quarterback in football that has a particular weakness, he has certain strengths, but has a particular weakness, you try to surround him with teammates that cover for that weakness. And some people think that's how it is with their faith, that they have to kind of cover, you know, because you can't really expose it to scrutiny. We have to kind of, you know, just we have our beliefs here and then in the public square, we shy away from these things because we don't want them to be exposed.

We don't want anyone to discover the weakness. No. I say, come and look Come and investigate. I welcome the challenge. I welcome the questions.

Our website is askdrbrown.org. Our radio show is live call-in so people can call in. One of my favorite days of the week is Friday, where I come in and whatever people are going to ask, they're asking. And if I have a regret on radio, if there's something that if I could press a button and change, it would be that more people would call who differ with me. More people would call to challenge me.

You might say, well, you control the mic, or you're a debater. Listen. Just people calling and raising critical questions, even if they don't get to win a debate, just raising the questions or saying, I think you're wrong about this. I differ with you on that. I wish we had more of that.

Do you know that when I am invited to a college campus, and a lot of campuses frankly are afraid to invite me because there's too much flack? It's not because I'm some militant, ugly-spirited person, but it's because we're going to talk about issues that some think are too sensitive to talk about. But When I'm invited. For example, when I was invited to do a lecture at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem by some Christian students there in the International Building at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, When I was invited to do it, I said, can we do a debate instead? Can we find a professor?

You've got some of the most learned men on the planet teaching there. Can we find a professor willing to have a friendly debate? Or maybe a rabbi. You've got a massive community of religious Jews and learned rabbis there in Israel. Maybe a rabbi.

Can we do that? And when no one that they contacted was willing to do that, I did a lecture, but then insisted that we had open my Q ⁇ A afterwards. Why? Because I want my views to be challenged, and I want to be able to challenge those who differ. Uh listen.

I did a debate with a rabbi in the Atlanta area in March. And to his credit, he stepped forward on short notice. He'd done some counter-missionary work. He's a community rabbi, obviously learned in Judaism. And the gentleman I was supposed to debate was sick.

Doctors orders that he couldn't come and debate me.

So I debated this other rabbi. He stepped forward on short notice. And I give him credit for doing that. And obviously, he's able to argue the points that he holds to, but through the whole night, I kept saying, You haven't rebutted anything I've said. I raised this verse and this verse and this verse and this verse and this verse and you haven't rebutted it.

I risk that you watch it. If you don't believe me, just watch, all right? And you'll see for yourself, okay? Watch, go to askdrbrown.org, just search for Frytag, F-R-E-I-T-A-G, Frytag. Again, I appreciate Rabbi Freitag stepping forward on short notice and giving such a passionate presentation for what he believes.

So you'll see through the whole night, I keep saying. Uh You're not an I raised this verse, this, verse, this, verse, you haven't answered, you haven't answered, you haven't answered. And as the night goes on, he said, I don't have time to answer all. With just a few minutes left, he said, look, I don't have time to answer these things. Actually.

He had a lot of time to answer because he had rebuttal time and back and forth time, Q ⁇ A. We had enough time. There was plenty of time for him to answer. And he never answered. Then at the end, he said, if you have questions about any verses, come and see me.

I'll talk with you.

Well, he has every right to do that. But I take exception to not addressing the public issues publicly. If you have the answers publicly, bring them publicly. What would you think of me that I'm doing a debate with someone about the authority of Scripture and the inspiration of Scripture, and the whole night they're bashing the Bible and showing why they believe it can't be inspired, why it can't be the Word of God. And I keep raising other arguments against it, but I never respond to any of the points they made.

And then at the end I said, hey, if you have questions about anything he raised, you can come see me privately. You see Doctor Brown If you have the answers, bring them post. publicly.

So wh when I'm asked to speak on a college campus, I'm asked to do a talk about cultural issues or the Bible and homosexuality, I I say, can we do a debate? Can you get someone from the other side? Why? Because I want people to hear the best shot that the other person can give. And I want that to be presented alongside with what I present so that people can then evaluate these things for themselves.

Let me share something interesting with you from John chapter 3. It's familiar passage, but but I think we often Uh focus on the for God so loved the world section, because that is so well known to us, that we often forget the rest of the passage.

So let's take a look in John chapter 3 and let's listen to these words. These are either the words of Jesus speaking to Nicodemus, depending on where we end the quote. Does he continue speaking through verse 16 and following, as many believe? Or are these the words of John, the author of the Gospel of John? And is he now speaking these words?

Either way, we know the scripture. For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their works were evil.

For every one who does wicked things hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in Got. Oh. When you do what's true, You come to the light. because you got nothing.

Yeah. Listen, if if I had a porn problem, And I was constantly on my computer on porn sites, God forbid. But I had a gambling addiction. And I was secretly going to these websites and trying to do it in the most hidden way that I could, and gambling money, and trying to get money out of one account without Nancy seeing it. I was taking whatever it is, and gambling.

I would have a miserable conscience, and I would be. Guilt-ridden because I'd be in sin against God and resisting the Holy Spirit. And if my computer was out, I wouldn't want you near it. Dr. Brown, can I I gotta send an email.

Can I use your computer for a minute? No, no, that that won't work. No, I would want but when you're clean, it's like, Can I use your computer? Sure. And uh because there's no problem.

Go ahead. And do you mind if we put accountability? We're doing this for everyone in our office. We're putting accountability software on to, you know, in case they go to the wrong side. Yeah, go ahead.

So that's how I am with my faith. Go ahead, examine it. I got nothing to hide. Nothing I'm ashamed of. Nothing I'm embarrassed of.

We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on the line of fire. Michael Brown here, 866-348-7-884.

So let me catch up on something going on. terms of apologetics, in terms of speaking the truth. And I just feel so strongly to encourage you that we're on the side of truth, that we're on the side of life.

Someone I was interacting with yesterday a guy whose beliefs had gone totally off the deep end. And he said to me, you know, you'll look at statistics, and 60 to 70 million people have left the church, and they don't like the way things are presented about gay and lesbian issues. I said, Actually. If you'll dig deeper into the numbers. It's not to say that this has never happened.

It's not to say that that there aren't people who leave conservative churches because they don't like the moral stance of those conservative churches or what these churches teach on God and sexuality and marriage and things like that. But instead, if you'll dig deeper in the numbers, you'll find this. that overwhelmingly it's the Liberal churches that are bleeding. Overwhelmingly, it's the churches that are no longer teaching the authority of Scriptures, the ones that are being like the world. When the church becomes like the world, it will lose its committed members because people are not part of the church to be part of the world.

They just stay in the world, for that matter.

So So, in point of fact, you will see with great, great consistency the churches that are bleeding, bleeding members in America. Are those that espouse liberal views of the Bible and don't hold to the authority of Scripture and embrace abortion on demand and embrace redefining of marriage and things like that? That's what you'll find with great consistency. Whereas the churches that are preaching the gospel and holding to the authority of Scripture and believe in the power of the Spirit, by and large, those are the ones that are thriving and growing, or at the least, holding much steadier. And around the world, those are the ones that are thriving and growing and multiplying.

Absolutely. I've been in them myself. I've seen it. I'm an eyewitness to it. And I see what's happening with churches.

One church in the A little bit outside of Nashville. The pastor says that they're now affirming same-sex, quote, marriage, and this is the new message of grace, and so on and so forth. And what's happened steadily, their attendance is down. And then even issues, I think, with the pastor who had committed adultery previously. If I recall the story, he'd committed adultery previously, married a woman he was at adultery with, then divorces that woman recently.

And now they feel they have to move to a new area. move more into the city of Nashville, where things are more progressive. The fact of the matter is... The message we have is a message of life. People say the blood of gay teenagers on your hands because of your message.

That's a heavy accusation. I tell them the message we preach brings life and hope and deliverance, and I can guarantee you. You get to a large youth conference, all right? You speak to, say, several thousand. Young people.

See through teenage up to college age. And and you ask them, How many of you have been delivered from depression? Or suicide attempts, since you've come to faith in Jesus, you'll be shocked how many will raise their hands. Because the message of Jesus is a message that gives life. When a husband and wife honor God and honor one another, They will have a blessed relationship and they will have a blessed family.

Oh, it doesn't mean everything's perfect. It doesn't mean you won't have a kid that gets in trouble. What it means is, just like you look at the book of Proverbs, if you live by the wisdom of Proverbs, if a whole society, let's say you had a million people in society A living by the book of Proverbs, and a million people in society B casting off the book of Proverbs, I can guarantee you that the lifespan and quality of life of society A would be far better than the lifespan. and quality of life of society B. guaranteed as surely as God is God.

It's it's one of the strong points I make in my book. Saving a sick America, prescription for moral and cultural transformation, that God's ways are ways of life, that God's ways are ways of wisdom. We don't want to establish a theocracy here. Our goal is not to establish a theocracy. Our goal is not to take over the society and have clergy ruling the society, a priestly class ruling the society, and enforcing the Bible on the public.

And if you don't go to church on Sunday, you're going to be whipped and flogged. No, God forbid. That's not what we're seeking to do. And if you commit adultery, you'll be put to death. No, God forbid, that's not what we're trying to do.

What we're trying to do in this democratic republic is preserve our freedoms, preserve the fundamental freedoms and liberties that were given to us because of the biblical worldview of so many of our founding fathers, even those who were not Christians still had much more of a biblical worldview, probably than many Christians today. And not only so, we want to advocate for what we believe is the best way of life, the best for justice, the best for mercy, the best for families, the best for individuals, the best for our security.

So we use the democratic process to advocate for these things, just like atheists and liberal Christians and Muslims and Jews and Buddhists and feminists and gay activists, they can all advocate for their best. views. This is the democratic republic in which we live. And we want to challenge everyone that does believe, live this out. In Saving a Sick America, I'll go through issue after issue.

not just abortion, but our our death culture. You know, it celebrates the the walking dead kind of thing, our our our death culture. How do we change that? How do we change that within the household and family? What about our education system?

So much of it messed up. How do we go about fixing that? What about our severe indebtedness? What about our obesity? What about all the sexual immorality?

I say God's Word has holistic, life-giving answers to every one of these questions and issues. And if we will live by the truth, we will see transformation. If we will live this out as families, because that's the biggest issue in America, the light is not shining brightly. The problem is not so much the darkness, it's the lack of light. If we begin to shine more brightly and then give ourselves to prayer, and the Great Commission, winning the lost, preaching the gospel.

Sharing the hope of eternal life, calling for repentance and new life, forgiveness of sins in Jesus. If we'll do that with prayer, America can be turned around. And and listen, How are we going to live otherwise? We could throw in the towel?

Well, we'd all just backslide. No. Well just said no We're going to live godly lives, right? We're going to swim against the tide anyway. Wouldn't it be great if we could actually...

Reverse? The tide. Wouldn't that be amazing? All right, another reminder. If you have not yet Download it the opening chapter and the intro to Saving a Sick America.

Trust me, you'll be engaged. You'll be drawn in as you do. Go to saving a sickamerica.com. Saving the SickAmerica.com. When you are there, Also watch the three-minute trailer.

It's been watched by well over 50,000 people already. Watch the trailer. You'll be blessed as you do. You'll be stirred. If you'd like to order, Pre-order.

A signed and numbered copy from the first printing. It's like a collector's edition. We number the first 100 or 200 or 300 that come in. I sign them with a scripture for you. If you'd like to pre-order those, go to my website now, askdrbrown, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org.

All right, we'll be right back with a special guest. Game tour. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us today on the line of fire, where we function as your voice of moral sanity and spiritual clarity in a society all too often in chaos, a church all too often in compromise. There is a new book by Chris Buskirk and Seth Leibeson.

American greatness, how conservatism incorporated, conservatism inc. missed. the 2016 election and what the DC establishment needs to learn. William Bennett, highly respected Christian thinker here in America, said this in The Foreword. Few analysts or experts saw this coming or saw it as even remotely possible.

Most thought it impossible. While many Democrats and not a few Republican consultants are still scratching their heads, it is safe to say that to some of us at least, the coming Trump presidency was no surprise. This book explains why. I'm joined now by one of the authors, Chris Busker. Chris, thanks so much for joining us on the line of fire today.

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks very much for having me. All right, help me understand in a nutshell what is the argument and thesis of your book. The argument is simple. I mean, the book's really broken down into two parts.

It's how did the right go wrong in America and what do we do to fix it? I mean, that's kind of the simplest way to frame the book. Because what we were struck by during the election, Seth and I, who's my coauthor on the book, what we were struck by is that all of the all the pundits, the magazines, the nonprofits, the think tanks, the ones that we've respected and looked up to and read for all these years as conservatives, people on the right, these people had more in common With the New Republic, with the Washington Post, with the Nation, with all these left-wing outlets. during the presidential election than they did with your average rank and file Republican or Conservative voter. And we we were really struck by this saying, well, something's happened here.

Something has really changed in this country when the National Review Is vehemently against the Republican candidate when the rank-and-file voters are vehemently in favor of him, when Donald Trump is. getting out and having rallies of five or ten or fifteen, twenty thousand people sometimes, and yet the powers that be in what we call conservatism, Inc. just can't seem to get their minds around it. We're interested in this question because we have said, conservatives, I say we, I mean conservatives have said for a long time that the best hope for this country comes from the right. It doesn't come from the left.

The the left is the problem. And so when we've got a part of the when we've got a part of the right, an influential part of the right, a part of the right that controls the magazines and the microphones. when they are opposed to a candidate that has an agenda that is near and dear to the hearts of so many voters, things about whether it be immigration or trade or foreign policy, Something happened, something changed. We want to figure out why, and that was part of it. And the other part was more practical, which is having said, well, here's what went wrong.

We said, well, what do we do about it? How do we fix it? And that's really kind of the that's really where we're coming from with the book, when when we when we wrote it and we we're working on a sequel already because there's a lot more to be done. All right, friends, we are just scratching the surface now, and we're going to dig in more with Chris Buskirk. He's the co-author of American Greatness, How Conservatism Inc.

missed the 2016 election and what the D.C. establishment needs to learn. Chris, if you can unpack in 30 seconds the D.C. establishment, give me your Twitter definition. Sure, yeah, 140 characters or less.

The DC establishment, when we talk about conservatism, Inc., we say that that is. What we call this archipelago of journals and mostly nonprofits, think tanks. That comprise basically the permanent professional conservative movement. It's the magazines, it's the think tanks, it's the nonprofits. It's primarily that.

They suck up and spend about $500 million a year, and the complaint that we have is that we just don't seem to be getting a whole lot for it. Got it. I tell you what, got to jump in. We'll be right back. I'm with Chris Buskirk.

The new book, American Greatness: How Conservatives missed the 2016 election, and what the DC establishment needs to learn. Ain't the world It's fire we want, for fire we need It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRU. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on the line of fire. Michael Brown here with my special guest, Chris Buskirk, co-author of American Greatness. Chris, my perspective on the elections came from the viewpoint of a biblical conservative, so I would be identified with the, quote, religious right if I was going to be put in a category. And I had actually endorsed Senator Ted Cruz because I was looking for someone that held to my moral values about family and other things.

things like that and stood with Israel, things that were important to me, that I also thought could be a good leader. But to me, we needed someone that would be anti-establishment because I didn't have any hope in the Republican establishment or certainly the Democratic establishment.

So I saw Ted Cruz taking on the Washington cartel that he could be someone I could endorse. First time I'd ever endorsed a candidate. And I had real problems with Donald Trump. I had severe problems and how could he be the moral leader we want? How could he be a conservative?

Is he really a true conservative? At a certain point, though, I asked myself, why do so many people like him? It can't be that they're all wrong. It can't be that they're all idiots. There must be buttons that he's pushing.

And I did ultimately vote for him with some reservations. In certain ways, he's doing better than I expected. In other ways, the reservations remain. But I looked at myself. I thought, okay, I'm obviously missing something because he's getting all these people coming.

He's not just getting some angry redneck that wants to go around killing everybody, some stereotypical white redneck voter. He's hitting some buttons.

So what did we miss? I say we broadly. I'm not, I don't think part of Conservatism Inc., but what did we miss that the American people got? Yes, that's a great question. It's a great way to look at the election.

My experience was probably somewhat similar To yours, though I came to Trump very early, basically at the beginning of August of 2015, but from a similar perspective, because I was very interested in Senator Cruz's campaign. But I'll tell you, and I think this maybe answers your question a bit. I'll tell you what turned me around, or I won't say it that way. I'll tell you what opened my eyes to Donald Trump originally was was one of my brothers-in-law. He's a physician.

He is not particularly political, though he is a conservative, votes, all those sorts of things, but not, you know, he doesn't do it for a living and it's not his hobby or anything. He's got a lot he's got a life to live and a a practice to sustain in a family and all those sorts of things. And he said something to me at a family dinner about Donald Trump it that I will always resonate with me. And he said, you know, he says, I know I'm not that political. He said, but there's something about the way Donald Trump talks about America.

He says, I think I'm going to vote for him in the primary.

Now, we were, I'm in Arizona, we were eight months away from, or nine months, I guess, even away from the primary at that point. And I said to myself, kind of like you did, I said, you know, there's got to be something Here, because until that point, I honestly hadn't given Donald Trump that much thought. And then I did what I tell people to do all the time, which is I said, don't listen so much to what people say. About Donald Trump, just listen to Donald Trump and make your judgment based on that.

So I went, I listened to some of his speeches, I looked at the policy positions, and that's when the light bulb went off. for me, and I said it's it's not Trump the persona. There's there's a bit of that because I think I think Republicans and conservatives have wanted somebody who would push back hard against the age, somebody who would push back hard against the tides that are have been feeling like they're they're Wow, washing over us and almost washing us out to sea. There's some of that. They like the fighter.

But uh it was more than that. It was the agenda i itself. It was uh an immigration policy that people think of as being pro citizen. It's a trade policy that people think of as being pro worker. It's a farm policy that's America first that thinks about is this good for America?

Is this good for our citizens? Those are things that unfortunately have I think been lacking uh in a lot of Republican platforms. I mean, we had seventeen candidates in the primaries and nobody seemed to be able to get out of their way and talk about these things in a very in a very clear, concise way in the way that Donald Trump did. And I Partially, and this is one of the this is something we talk about in the book, partially that's because people on the left have they've just drunk in, they've breathed in a lot of the language of the left. Did I say left?

The people on the right have drunk in the language of the left and have taken in some of the criticisms, which I think are unjust, but the criticisms of America, they don't even know it. And so there's a what Donald Trump says, America first, You can see with some types of conservatives, there's a little bit of embarrassment at that. And I don't think there should be. I think that this country has done more good for more people than any country ever on the face of the planet. And we should be proud of that, sure, in a certain way, but we should also take that as a solemn responsibility as to how do we continue that?

How do we stand on the shoulders of the people who came before us? And how do we pass on that same legacy to our own kids? Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, so there's so much that you said there, and looking at the table of contents in your book, American Greatness, there's so much I want to probe and explore more. But some of what you just talked about, I think, ties in with chapter four, the conservative Stockholm Syndrome, when conservatives adapt to and accept the critiques of the left.

So under President Obama, there was a lot of self-criticism and even apologies to other nations. And I understand America hasn't been perfect, and I respect that, but you don't really expect that from the president who's supposed to be encouraging a strong nation and national pride and things like that. But to a certain extent, we didn't realize we're beating ourselves up all the time. Evil America, bad America, bad history, bad country.

So that when President Trump says America first, we now hear it as if it's some hypernationalism, as if it's the revival of some kind of Aryan supremacy. All he's doing is what every president should do. every leader in every country. You have to put your own country first. No, that's right.

I mean, you know, these these people, sometimes these intellectuals overthink things. They say, oh, America First, you know, that's a reference to some to a movement in the late thirties and the early forties. No, really? No, there's about 200 people in this country who thought that when Donald Trump said America First. And what people think of when Donald Trump talks about America First is Putting America first.

It's just not that complicated. It's a question of priority, of importance, of where he sees this country where and more important in a certain way is how he sees the role of the government and of the president. Are we is it his job to put America first when he's doing his job or is it or is it his job to see himself as somehow the first among equals president of the world? And Americans, I think, have tried that. We've tried to be the policeman for the world.

It has not always worked out well for us. And people are ready, I think, to go back and say, you know what, we're better to do how do I want to say let me put it this way, it's hard enough to run one large, free, prosperous country without trying to run a bunch of them. Let's get let's stick to our knitting at home. Let's get this country right. And that way, we can be an example to other countries rather than trying to go to other countries and impose These ideas or these institutions on other people who may or may not want them, may or may not be ready for them.

Let's keep our own lawn clean. Let's mow our own lawn, if that makes any sense. And I think that resonated with a lot of people when they hear Donald Trump talk about that. And yet, we've got conservative intellectuals who cure America first. And you're right, they say, ooh, that sounds too nationalistic.

Well, I I've said to some of these people face to face and they never have a good answer. I said, Well, Donald Trump says America first and you don't like them. What's he supposed to say? America second? I get the s I get the blank stare.

Nobody's no You know, it's it's like that never occurred to them. And the other thing is, as America goes, so much of the world goes. And a strong America is good for the whole world. And America tends to have a giving mentality and a helping mentality, and most Americans do as well.

So, as we're stronger, we can be a help to the rest of the world. And in fact, maybe we can just get into this in two minutes before this next break. Chapter eight in your book, American Greatness, excuse me, chapter seven, Utopianism: How the American Revolution Was Superior to the French Revolution, we're talking about The very foundations of our nation being better than, say, the foundations of modern France because of the differences in our revolution.

So, how would you unpack that?

Well, just I know we don't have a ton of time before the break, but just in short, I mean, the the American Revolution was quite different from the French. The American Revolution really drew on it drew on two main foundations, Jerusalem and Athens. It drew on the Bible and it drew on the Greeks in the way that they put together the way they put together the original Greek republics and Greek democracies, but with obviously with a strong Christian background because of the influence of Christianity on the foundation of this country.

So there's an understanding of mankind, of all mankind, being made in the image of God, of being creatures. And that that endowed you know, this is the language Jefferson used of being endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights. And so that that was the foundation for the American. experiment in free government. This French Foundation is very different.

The French Foundation has this pro has this progressive in a phil philosophical sense, a historic a historicist sense that whatever is whatever's next, whatever there's something always something better in the future. And we just need to get go on to this glorious future. We don't know quite what it is, but we know that if we just keep it if we keep doing what we're doing, it's going to get better. And it's about the the so called radical liber liberation of the self. And that is antithetical to what America is all about.

We're about a fixed notion of right and wrong that is based upon the common humanity that we all have as creatures, of creatures made in God's image. The French and the philosophical underpinnings, the Enlightenment underpinnings of the French Revolution are quite different, which is to say that there are no bounds. Everybody is free to be a radical individual. You can do whatever you want. And they try and remake government every generation to try and push the bounds of what's acceptable.

And that leads to chaos, to anarchy, and to a lack of freedom, ultimately. That's the irony here with that philosophy. It started at the beginning. Got it. All right.

Great answer. We'll be right back. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire. Important new book, American Greatness, How Conservatism Inc. missed the 2016 election and what the DC establishment needs to learn.

Chris Buskirk and Seth Leibson together wrote it. Hey, Chris, did I butcher Seth's last name here or is it Leibson? No, I wouldn't say butcher, maybe just a little shaving neck. It's Leibson. Leibson.

Okay. Yeah. It could go either way. All right. The end of your book, this is not just a matter of what we got wrong, which is very insightful, but the last chapter, The Way Forward, Saving the Revolution.

What do you lay out there? Yes, well, this is we lay out what do we have to do. We describe the problem, but of course, the question then always becomes, what do we do now? And I look, we won a big victory, I think, for the country in November of twenty sixteen, but the battle goes on, and we need to look no further than the headlines from today or last Friday. We look at Republicans who have been campaigning, for instance, On repealing Obamacare for seven and a half years.

We've heard about that ad infinitum. I don't know how many hundreds of millions of dollars. have been raised on that slogan. We're going to give us the power, give us the money, we're going to repeal Obamacare. And when it comes right down to it, they can't seem to find out how to do it, can't figure out how to get the votes to do that.

That's a disappointment for a lot of us out here, for a lot of Republicans. For a lot of conservatives, and it just goes to the core point of the book, which is that there's something wrong inside of the American right. And so, what we're pointing to is an intellectual reformation that leads to a political restoration.

So, what does that mean? It means that people like us, people like you, or people like us at American Greatness, people who have an interest in these things and have thought about them, we need to put forward an American agenda that is, in fact, revolutionary. And I don't say that lightly, but the American Revolution was. Radical. We go back to the late 18th century.

Those ideas were radical then. They're still radical now. And we see that sort of plaque build up in the circulatory system of American politics. That needs to be cleaned out. We need to go back to the basics and say, how do we adhere to these same principles that made this country what it is?

And so we talk about that at some length, and really it goes back to. Recognizing the fundamental rights of our citizens and recognizing that American citizenship is something that is unique. and that there are responsibilities that the government has to its citizens.

Now when somebody on the left says that, it always is about money. It's how can the government take from one group to give to another. We don't look at it that way. We say the government has a responsibility to its citizens in the sense that it needs to protect what it means to be a citizen. It needs to be responsive to a citizen.

So we want to talk about something like immigration. That's been very frustrating for A lot of Republicans, because they see that they've been voting for people who want to, for instance, enforce the borders, enforce our existing immigration laws. And yet Republicans, elected Republicans, haven't done it.

So we basically, this is look, this is I know you'll get the reference here, but look, there were the the lot the Israelites were not allowed to enter the promised land because there was a generation who wouldn't follow God's commands when they did that. There's a certain parallel there. I think that we need a generational shift. here inside the American right to go And we need to replace our elites with people who recognize that they are ultimately beholden to, and their legitimacy comes from. The citizens from the voters, and that that is what their job is, not to some sort of up in the air.

ideas that people haven't voted for, that people haven't endorsed. Just look at just do the basic job of government, which is to protect the peace and prosperity of this country. And if we do that, we'll be way ahead of the game. All clear, loud and clear. Can we do it?

That's the question, but the challenge is there. The book American Greatness, Chris Buskirk and Seth Liebson. Thanks for joining us, Chris. Look forward to talking to you about your future projects. My pleasure.

Thanks very much for having me. All right. So friends, um L let me say this plainly. Let me say this plainly. My hope is in God, not in President Trump.

My hope was in God, not in President Obama, not in President Bush or any of the presidents in my lifetime. My hope is in God. And if dramatic change is to come through this country, it's going to be through God and his people. All right. And it's going to be the people of God, the church, following Jesus heart and soul, living out the faith, serving God diligently, and making an impact through being salt and light in the world around us.

At the same time, I recognize that our political leaders do play a part. do play a role, and it's a major role. All right, it is secondary to the role we play as the people of God, but it is an important role. And the President and Congress, the Supreme Court can do a lot of good or a lot of bad.

So whether you voted for Donald Trump or not, we need to be praying for him, praying for Congress, praying for the Supreme Court, exactly the same as when President Obama was the President.

Okay? But I want to add this in. I I saw an article I wrote Oh. year ago I I think a little bit longer. warning Christian conservatives don't look to Donald Trump to be your protector.

He had made statements, then, that were concerning He had made statements about pro-life, but wanting to see exceptions in the pro-life Republican platform. you know, for say rape or incest or or things like that, he which we don't take lightly, but we still say if that baby is a baby in the womb, then you don't abort the baby accordingly. And and uh There were statements he had made about HB2 in North Carolina as if the state had made the wrong decision there. And hey, Caitlin Jenna can use the ladies' room at my building if that's what Caitlin Jenna wants to do. And I said, look, don't look at this man as a moral conservative that's going to protect your rights and liberties.

I believe as the time has gone on that he has been, as I said, barring divine intervention. It does seem that more and more and more he's positively influenced in the right direction. I would love to be very wrong. about the warnings that I issued. Again, I said barring divine intervention, we can't look for this to happen.

And there have been things that thus far have been disappointments on the one hand, other things that I've been applauding that have been great.

Okay? So I I'd love to be wrong. I I I and I I think that there's evidence. That there has been work of the Holy Spirit on Donald Trump's heart in certain positive ways. While we still see, trust me, we all see the blemishes and the weaknesses and the problems and the other issues.

So let's keep praying. Let us keep praying. And let us look at Our job and our responsibility. Hey, friends, I just saw the news from about an hour ago.

So tragic from England and just one of the downsides of socialized health care that the government can make these ultimate decisions. His parents have now given up the battle to take him to the United States. for treatment because they say the the window of opportunity no longer exists.

So much time was wasted. that now there's no possible medical intervention that could Save his life or improve his life, so they're just going to let him go. How agonizing that must be: thinking if the courts didn't do what they did, our baby. could potentially be alive. or have a prospect of living on.

So again, one of the real problems with socialized healthcare, which is why so many America do not want to go in that direction. Friends, lots of great new resources at askdrbrown.org. Please go there, check it out. The new videos, the new articles, you'll be blessed, you'll be helped, you'll be encouraged. We're in this together, friends.