Responses to the Charlottesville Events, Two Special Interviews, and Your Calls

Boy, I'm pent up. A lot to talk about today from racism to Charlottesville to the president. Oh, pro-life missions and more. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Wow, there is a lot to talk about, friends. We want to be constructive. We want to be redemptive. We want to be helpful. We want to edify.

We want to instruct. We want to inform. This is Michael Brown. Welcome to the Line of Fire broadcast. The President has just issued a very strong, very specific statement condemning by name white racism or white supremacy and other things and speaking explicitly against the evil of racism.

We'll play that clip for you in a moment. But first I want to give you some background, some history, and tell you what's grieving me today. As a follower of Jesus, as a leader in the body, I know not all of you listening agree with me in terms of my spiritual and theological viewpoints. I know some of you are not believers in God or not specifically believers in Jesus. Allow me to speak to everyone, but especially to speak to those who identify as followers of Jesus as well, because I know that those who identify as followers of Jesus are the largest part of my audience that I'm speaking to.

And that's where I have particular burden and concern today. Because so many of us are just like the world around us.

So many of us are so reactionary. We react first, we think and pray and consider second. We speak first and listen second.

So many of us get just as divided over race and over politics.

So many of us just get all of our news from one source and that informs our opinions and we have such blind spots.

So so many of us don't come with a redemptive spirit?

So I'm I'm grieved and burdened just watching some interaction on the S. Dr. Brown Facebook page and watching some interaction on Twitter. And then watching how the nation is in turmoil, and it seems the church gets in turmoil, as opposed to the nation is in turmoil, and the church should rise above it and come with a redemptive message.

So Yes, I'm speaking to us. Not so, you. Yeah, I'm speaking to us. We. Need to do better.

And it it's so remarkable. that that you've got a set of people who condemn President Trump at the drop of a hat. And then you've got another set of people who are ready to condemn Barack Obama at the drop of a hat. All right. And it seems that neither one can see how the other one either has a point or no point.

In other words, we are so fixed. In our particular viewpoint and biases, that we can't even recognize that there are two sides to the story. and that ultimately It's up to us. To be the conscience of the nation. And we are doing a poor job.

of it. We are striking each other and smiting each other. rather than working constructively for good.

So, all this just flows out of the tragic events in Charlottesville. Over the weekend. When we come back, I want to play for you the initial statement that was made by President Trump. I want to give you background as to what actually happened there. Then address some of the criticism.

Is President Trump guilty of inflaming racial tensions in America? Is he rightly associated with white nationalists, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, KKK? Are those who voted for him somehow guilty? guilt by association and therefore explicitly Tied to these different groups? What should Christians be doing at a time like this?

What about the other groups, the Black Lives Matter and the Antifa demonstrators? What about them? We'll talk about it and we'll be constructive and redemptive right here on the line of fire. Shake the nation. Shame floor.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire, 866-348-788.

Four. All right, so what actually happened in Charlottesville? There was a rally that was called for ostensibly in protest of a statue of General Robert E. Lee being removed from a park in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Now, if you'll study Robert E. Lee, I'm no expert on him whatsoever. But people have said that he would be appalled by the sentiments of the radical right of the white supremacists. That many of those who fought in the Civil War were not themselves pro-slavery, but pro-states' rights. And that was their big battle.

And of course, others were blatantly pro-slavery and willing to give their blood for that. But we'll put that aside. That's a total aside. And you can call him with your opinion of Robert E. Lee.

That's fine. I am not commenting on that in any focused way, and I am no expert on that. But that was the reason for the demonstration. There was a counter-demonstration as well.

So you're talking about on the white side of things, the ones that were initially calling for the rally, you're talking about gathering neo-Nazis, white supremacists, KKK types, the types that every person of conscience should denounce. That is racism, that is bigotry. As I said plainly, I posted this Saturday when I got through with a day of ministry. I was in North Dakota. I said plainly, and put this up on Facebook.

There is nothing American about white supremacism. Nothing heroic, nothing praiseworthy, nothing patriotic. It is a rotten, a rotten, ugly mindset full of hatred, bigotry, and pride, and every person of conscience should denounce it. It degrades others who are also created in the image of God and takes his name in vain to further its cause. Whatever our political or racial or ethnic background as Americans, we need to stand together.

against it. And when some people responded in ways that actually surprised me, when I got some kind of racist responses from both sides. I then wrote, the bottom line is simple. I don't care what color your skin is and what your ethnic background is. When neo-Nazis rally, you condemn it.

When the KKK rallies, you condemn it. When black supremacists rally, you condemn it. When a man plows his car into a crowd, killing one person, injuring 19, you condemn it. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be on this Facebook page. I trust we share the same heart here.

So I put that out plainly, unequivocally, there was not going to be any Discussion contrary to that, as far as I was concerned. Let's agree on this.

So this demonstration itself Ends up, it's going to be shut down by police at a certain point before the thing even gets going. Because of concerns as to where it was going to go. There was a counter-protest.

Now, let's just remember a lot of the violence in the last 12 months or even beyond, and the free speech riots against free speech and things like that at campuses like Berkeley, that's been from the left. It has been all that from the left. left. Consistently. All right?

So you've had a a lot of violence in that regard.

Some of the rhetoric, extreme rhetoric of Black Lives Matter led to the assassination of policemen. Let's not forget what happened in Dallas. And Antifa has been violent in some of its tactics, the so-called anti-fascist rioters.

So you've definitely had violence from the left. There's no question. That the white supremacists, neo-Nazi KKK types are violent people in many ways. All right. So you've got all this going on.

Some claim that when the police were told to stand down. that it led to blood shedding or fights breaking out between these various protesters. But then in the midst of all this, as there's a counter protest march going on, you've probably seen the horrific video footage. A guy? On the the white supremacist side, Plows his car into the crowds, smashes into cars in front of him.

I mean, it's brutal. Bodies go flying, one young woman killed. What, 19 injured? Absolutely horrific. This is a terror attack from the white supremacist side.

That's what it is. and uproar, upheaval, understandably. people in shock through the nation what just happened here? I mean, we're reading all the time about Islamic terrorists ramming their cars into people and killing them.

Now you have somebody doing it here in America.

So naturally, There is a lot of upheaval over this. makes this statement. This is the initial statement. There's an updated one today that we're going to play for you. But let's go back because I want you to see what unfolds and how it unfolded.

So here's President Trump's initial statement. We condemn in the strongest possible terms This egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides, on many sides. It's been going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. This has been going on for a long, long time.

It has no place in America. What is vital now is a swift restoration. of law and order and the protection of innocent lives. No citizen should ever fear for their safety. and security.

in our society, and no child should ever be afraid. To go outside. and play. or be with their parents. And have a good time.

All right, you might say What was wrong with that statement? Ah She denounce the bigotry, the hatred on all Sides, He did not specifically mention Nazis or KKK or white supremacists or alt-right. He did not mention any of those specifically.

Now remember, he's made a big point. of challenging Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Why won't you say radical Islamic terrorism? Why won't you name it? All right, and we were applauding him for naming it.

Now people are saying, why won't you name that? Is it because you want those people's votes?

Now here is what I believe is a fair criticism. If there had just been rally Neo-Nazi rally. opposed by Black Lives Matter anti-FA rally And it got, they started punching each other or stabbing each other or shooting each other, right? Horrific, horrific. If that happened, then you make a statement condemning bigotry, racism, hatred on all sides.

and maybe name all the parties involved. But when you have the car slamming into someone, killing them, trying to kill others, right, when you have that happening and the person involved with that is on the white supremacist side, then that's why you name names.

So I believe it was right to say he should have name names, but I don't believe that President Trump is a racist. And it is absolutely ridiculous to say, well, if you voted for him, you voted for racism.

Well, no more than if you voted for Barack Obama, you voted for racism. Yeah, the KKK endorsed Donald Trump. You know how many radical Groups endorse Barack Obama? What does that mean? It just it means nothing.

It means nothing i if that was the largest support. And the groundswell of support for a candidate was coming all from one group or another group, and they were bigoted and hateful. That's one thing. But when you have a small minority If a particular So white supremacists white nationalists, white radicals, you have this small percentage of the whole, and they're pro-Trump.

Well, you've got bladical black racists that were pro-Obama. What does it tell you about black populations that whole nothing? What does it tell you about white populations that whole nothing?

So to draw these conclusions, look. The left has been trying to paint a certain picture. And yeah, I'm going to say it would have been better if President Trump did this from the start. I'm going to point a finger at the left, at the right, because I'm. I'm not here taking sides.

I'm trying to speak the truth. All right?

I'm not being Republican or Democrat or black or white. Or conservative or liberal right now. I'm trying to speak truth as a follower of Jesus as best I can.

So I'm going to see fault on each side, I'm going to see right on each side when it's there. Let's just listen. Let's just listen to what Vice President Pence had to say. Clip number two. Listen to his comments after the attack.

We have no tolerance for hate. and violence From white supremacists, neo-Nazis, or the KKK. These dangerous fringe groups have no place in American public life and in the American debate, and we condemn them in the strongest possible terms. All right, so he makes it loud and clear. He makes that initial statement.

President Trump has now come out with a similar statement. The question is this. Has the media, the left-wing media. consistently been trying to paint a picture that Donald Trump is leading a white nationalist, white supremacist movement. Yes, they have.

Is it true? No. No, it's not true. It's not true. You can accuse him of running a racist campaign.

I do not believe He led a racist campaign. I don't believe it. And I know folks very close to him. who have talked to me about his genuine burden for the poor in the inner city, which is mainly minority.

So the brush is getting painted way too broadly here, both ways. Both ways. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to the line of fire. 866-34 Truth is the number to call. All right.

I want to play a few more clips for you. Did Donald Trump run a divisive campaign? Sure. Did he run a racist campaign? No, not in my judgment.

Not in my judgment. And he had leaders with him on a regular basis, people of color, people of other ethnicity, standing together with him. and I believe he wants to be the President of all the nation. I'd find fault with a ton of things he's said and done, and wish he'd said and done a lot of things very differently. I'm not his defender.

I'm simply being honest and objective and clear here as best as I can, which means listening to both sides, trying to hear what other sides are saying, and then trying to weigh in constructively.

So For those who thought that Barack Obama was racist, and and exacerbated racial tensions in America. You had many opportunities to say, you see, you see, you see, and others said, what are you talking about?

Okay, now the tables are turned. And others are doing the same with turn. You see, you see, you see?

Well, here's where we need to step back. and do our best to be objective. Ask yourself an honest question. Is that too much? Ask yourself an honest question.

And and calm your heart for a moment. Ask yourself, am I I being objective. You know a good way to tell? I can give both sides of the argument to the satisfaction of people on both sides. Yeah.

That tells you at least that you understand both sides. Often we don't, often I don't. And I have to step back and listen. Often Nancy and I will have intense, not heated, I mean, but wonderful, intense conversations back and forth. She'll say, You're wrong on this.

I'll say, why do you say that? I don't think so. We go back and forth. It's like, okay, I see your point. I agree.

I agree. Or maybe every once in a while, every once in a while, I win. I get her to see my point. But that's normally she's right.

Okay, so.

So here's the deal. Here's the deal. Donald Trump now is being called racist, racist, racist, racist. And whatever he says, I know it's too little, too late. Was Barack Obama racist, racist, racist when he didn't explicitly come out and condemn Black Lives Matter by name, or Black Racist, or Black Supremacist by name?

Let's not have this double standard. Let's be objective.

So, here's some accusations now. On the morning, Joe, there's a panel discussion. Guest Donny Deutsch and then Eugene Robinson.

So, we'll start with clip number three and go through these quickly, discussing whether President Trump is a racist. Start with number three. I had always early on felt, no, you know, he's not a racist, he's horribly Machiavellian and horribly manipulative, but he's playing his game to get where he needs to get to. And I think we have to stop that rationalization that, oh, he is just in a very dispassionate way being political and he's just an out-and-out racist. Yeah.

That's Opinion number one, loud and clear, and out and out racist. Clip number four. Then we have to stop giving him any air cover of a political discussion, a political strategy, versus core human values. of racism.

So that's it. Can't even cover them politically. Just it's human. This is it now. Just core human values.

The mans are racist. And what? Why? Because on that particular day, When he made his statement, he did not specifically name these other groups.

So now we know he's a racist, and that's just going to have ⁇ we're going to have to cover it. And that's the fact. And then Eugene Robinson weighs in. Clip number five. Incident after statement after controversy over the years, why don't we believe Donald Trump?

Why don't we believe that he means what he seems to mean? Which is obviously blatant racism as far as I can see. Yeah, blatant rate. Why don't we believe him? Because he is not?

guilty of blatant racism. He's not. I've often said, I wish he didn't say this. I wish he didn't tweet. I've written whole articles in recent weeks.

He's got to stop. This is wrong. This is destructive. I was at a meeting with White House advisors and White House staff where evangelicals were there, and they assured us that our concerns would be brought to the president. I raised this issue.

about statements the president makes and the way he does things and it's destructive and it's harmful. Could you please bring this again to the president? They assured me the concerns we raised would be brought directly to the president. I, as your voice, okay, I raise concerns. I said he says and does certain things that push away his base and that make it difficult for God-fearing Christians to support him.

I'm not oblivious to any of this, but I'm not going to fall into the trap of getting caught up in the moment where there's this entire narrative that the left is trying to push. No, I'm not going to buy into that.

So now the President has made a further statement. Let's listen to what President Trump said just a few minutes ago. Racism is evil. and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal.

We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law, and we are equal under our Constitution.

Alright, so there it is by name, okay? specifically names white supremacists and neo Nazis, justice will be delivered against racist violence. Interestingly, Ann Coulter pointed something out in terms of the media's coverage. of Islamic terrorism in America compared to the media's coverage of white nationalist terrorism in America.

So she has a series of tweets. And of course. For those that don't understand, I disagree with a lot of what Ann Coulter says. I will quote people that I agree with and that I disagree with if I want to make a specific point. Fair enough.

Ann Coulter has a series of tweets. CBS News, white nationalists in Charlottesville fear backlash after attack. Of course, no such thing. But now she's got actual news from CBS. Muslims in San Bernardino fear backlash after attack.

Another tweet. Washington Post, for white nationalists in Charlottesville, unease and fears of a backlash after terrifying attack. You thought, what? Of course, that's correct. Of course not.

But here's Washington Post for Muslims at Ohio State, unease and fears of a backlash after a Muslim attack. New York Times, I'm frightened. After attacks in Charlottesville, New York, white nationalists cope with a backlash. Think that's crazy. New York Times, I'm frightened after attacks in Paris.

Now, Muslims fearing a backlash. Yes, the double standards are. there in a major, major war. Yeah. Let's be consistent.

Isn't it funny? That the left that defend it President Obama, Hillary Clinton, for not saying radical Islamic terrorism said this is not Islam.

Now they're saying Trump, why aren't you naming names? On the flip side, it's fair that they do this, but let's make sure that they do it for the left as well. It's fair that they're saying to President Trump, if you name radical Islamic terrorism, if you say that by name, then why won't you say white supremacists, neo-Nazis by name? white nationalist violence.

Well, he just did. They had every right to ask him that. But you better believe they need to turn around and do it to their own side when the violence comes from the left. Name it by name. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr.

Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire. Michael Brown here. Yeah, I'm burdened about some things, I'm concerned about some things. I am pent up about some things. Can I tell you something?

that I learned when I visited The White House, no, I didn't meet with President Trump, but we met with some White House staff a few weeks ago and I was one of a number of evangelical leaders that maybe 25 of us that sat at the table with some White House advisors and briefly with Jared Kushner, but then he got called out to another meeting. And we were among a few groups, I believe, of evangelicals that were in that week representing different backgrounds, different nationalities, different ethnicities, different spiritual expressions within the body. But One thing I found out And I'm going to research this more to get more details. But Jared Kushner has addressed this, and apparently it's a major thing within the White House. I'm just going to get more details in terms of what has been put out publicly, and this is where I can share publicly what's been said publicly, because certain things in the meeting are shared privately, naturally.

I haven't hardly talked about. being there for that reason, except it gets reported in different things. And again, I didn't meet with the president, it's just one of many people that went through. But One of the big things that they are working on Jared Kushner is really driving this. But the President has a heart for it.

is prison reform. And equal justice for all. prison reform and equal justice. for all. Why?

Well, apparently this is public, so this much I'll I'll say. We were told it was public. When Jared Kushner was a young man his father was imprisoned. Don't know what for. That's what I have to look into, get details on, see what's publicly known.

And Jared Kushner basically had to run the family business as I understand it. And then he would go down to visit his father, who I believe was in prison in the South. And when he went down to visit him, And when he got involved in seeing what was happening, he saw that there were two different systems. that if you were wealthy, that you committed a certain crime, you can hire a lawyer. you could get away with it.

You have a minimal sentence and you move on. If you were poor. Then you're going to get slammed You're going to go to prison. and you're going to get out of prison and go back to prison. that it was not an equal system.

And in particular, obviously, the way it works out is going to be in that pr kind of setting, demographically, disproportionately slanted against poor blacks.

Okay? How many of you are shaking your head like, yeah, we all know this? All right. What I want you to understand. is this is something that has been near and dear to the heart of Jared Kushner for years.

Soon as I have a little time to focus on this, do a little more research, I plan to write on this.

So, yeah, here on the As reported, That was not breaking news. Just do a search and here it is. Father of Trump's son-in-law Jared Cushman has spent 14 months in Montgomery Federal Prison.

So this is news, this is known. just do a search for it like my producer did and there you have it.

So The point is simply this. Jared Kirshner seized the inequities. seize often, how whites can get treated better than blacks or how the rich can get treated better than the poor. Or how one ethnicity can get treated better. than another ethnicity.

and it concerns him, and he feels that something must be done on a systemic level. And this is something important to the President as well. I think that's important to know. I think it will colour.

some of your thinking and give context. Do I wish President Trump from the first moment of that horrific car attack Explicitly condemn white supremacists, neo-Nazis, white nationalists? Absolutely. He did it today. Let's take him at his word.

Let's condemn this junk together. Let's move. forward. Give us strength to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Alright, we're we're gonna S get our heads. Out of the water here and Take a deep breath, get our heads clear.

Because here's the bottom line. as we look at all the division and tension and problems. in our nation. The greatest need, the single greatest need we have. is for followers of Jesus to live followers of Jesus.

I just posted this on Facebook moments ago, and I'm going to bring on a guest, and we're going to talk about the life that God is calling us to live as believers. It's timely in the midst of all the chaos and controversy around Charlottesville and racism and political divide in America that we focus on the church being the church, which means you and me. individually, living as God's people. I posted this. You know what grieves me the most?

It's how we, followers of Jesus, handle the divisions in our country.

So many of us seem to be so quick to react, So quick to get all our news from one side only, so quick to make superficial, semi-informed judgments against others, so quick to divide over race or politics. We must step higher. How are we being salt and light? How are we, in the words of Dr. King, serving as the moral conscience of the nation?

My guest, David Shibley, is a world missions leader. He serves as international representative for global advance, founded the ministry in 1990, author of over 20 books. He's equipped hundreds of thousands of leaders in 65 nations to share the gospel of Jesus. He's written a new book, Entrust It. Anchoring Your Life in the Gospel.

It's a book calling us to discover our priceless stewardship.

So without further ado, let me bring on to the air David Shibley. Hey, David, thanks for joining us today. Thank you, Dr. Brown. It's always great to talk with you by whatever medium, and so it's a delight to be with you.

Thank you. Yeah, last time was face-to-face, this time it's by phone, but it's a joy either way. David, before we talk about your book and trust it, as we see so much bad news all the time, A lot of problems in America. Terrorism around the world, North Korea, what's going to happen there. You have your eyes on something.

also something else. which is what God is doing around the world. Give us a couple of minutes of good news of what Jesus is doing right now around the world. Michael, you know, to Jesus promised us, he prophesied that the wheat and the tares would grow up together. And that is exactly what is happening even as the schemes of men grow worse and worse, The gospel is going at record speed around the world, and the reception of the gospel in many nations.

Is absolutely breathtaking. As persecution against the church increases, for instance, in India. The church is standing strong. It's continuing to grow. There's been this dramatic spike.

There's questions among missiologists as to exactly how many now profess the name of Christ. In India, but I've heard figures and read figures based on research anywhere from eight. to as high as 11 or 12 percent. and historically up until about twenty years ago. It was 2% or 3%.

So there has been this dramatic surge in coming to faith in Jesus Christ. For instance, in India. Perhaps one of the healthiest and most vigorous church planting movements in the world right now. is the underground church in Iran. and of course, also facing tremendous scrutiny and persecution.

So it's exciting what the Lord is doing throughout the earth. I think there's a fresh call to evangelism today, a fresh sharing of faith. Uh by many people. around the world, and so I'm encouraged in what the Lord is doing. It's as the Lord spoke to Habakkuk: look among the nations, be utterly amazed.

I'm going to do a work in your day so incredible. You would not believe it, though, if we're told you. And so I'm thankful that I Most believers, new believers coming to faith in Jesus Christ. They see persecution as part of the package of coming to the Lord Jesus. And they get it, and they stand firm in Him.

Certainly, we need to pray for our brothers and sisters who are in any kind of distress because of their profession of faith in Jesus. But it's a great time for the church right now, and the church is moving forward in nation after nation. How can we maintain an attitude of victory, confidence, and faith here in America? You know, Michael, uh every day I kind of go to the end and work back. And every day, I remind myself that when all the dust settles, This is a fixed fight.

and the kingdoms of this world will become. the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ. No belligerence against the gospel can stop that. No antagonistic government, no terrorist groups can stop. the determined purpose of God to bring honor to his Son, among every tribe, every people, every nation.

And then To begin to work back from there. and realize that in the midst of a lot of chaos and a lot of confusion, The Lord Jesus has called us to be His ambassadors, His representatives in this hour. He's bequeathed us with His good news. He's given us His Holy Spirit to animate and empower us for this task. It's a tremendous hour to be a Christian.

And I also remind myself that my times aren't in the hands of terrorists or of those who would want to do harm to me or to the gospel. My times are in the hands of the Lord. And so I just place myself in his hands for the day. But to be brilliant light and potent salt at this time. I think is absolutely crucial and I so appreciate uh the posts that you have been sending out over these last couple of days And I think they're spot on what God is doing among us and the standard to which we are called.

I say in the book. Entrusted Jesus the old hymn, Jesus paid it all, all to him I owe. Jesus paid it all, that's the gospel. All to him I owe, that's the standard. of the gospel.

And that's the standard to which the Lord calls us today. All right, so living out the standard, your newest book, Entrusted, anchoring your life in the gospel, discovering your priceless standard. Stewardship, all to him. I owe what he has given us, what we're to give back. What motivated you after all these decades of ministry to write this book?

Okay. Michael, I've had the privilege of being in vocational ministry in some form now for 51 years. I started preaching. As a teenager when I was 16 years old, I've just never stopped. And it became an increasing concern to me over the last several years that you could go into many charismatic churches, you could go into many evangelical churches and go for weeks, sometimes even months.

and never hear the gospel itself. It's as if that which was meant to be front and center center stage has somehow been pushed to the periphery In many believers' lives and also in many of our churches. I'm grateful that there is now a call back to the centrality of the gospel. And I just wanted to bring things down to the I boiled them down to the least common denominator. And after these 51 years, I can say for me, prayerfully over these decades, but certainly for the rest of my life.

Uh the focus is Jesus. The message is the gospel, and the task is the Great Commission. It really boils down to that. And as a result, I believe great things are in store in the days ahead. certainly not without pressure.

But The Lord is up to something wonderful. And we've come to the kingdom for such a time as this. He didn't want Spurgeon for this day. He didn't want Wesley for this day. He wanted you and me.

The awe of that is thrilling and humbling. and also energizing. And so I'm grateful for voices like yours, Dr. Brown. who are lifting a biblical standard.

We are not uh uh beholdened to the right or to the left We are under obligation to the King of Kings and to the biblical standard wherever that happens to fall. Yes, so so well said. We've just got a minute before this first break. But is this book just for leaders or is this for all believers? It's for all believers.

It's for the brokenhearted people who leave church sometimes wondering where has the gospel gone. It's for those who who want a fresh uh scripturally infused encouragement to bring things back to a proper alignment. Putting Jesus first. putting the gospel first and really anchoring our lives In that which does not move, and that is, of course, the gospel itself. And there's a stewardship for every believer.

It's not just leaders that are going to give account. There are gifts, there are special things given to every believer, correct? Absolutely, and I'd like to talk about that after the break of the difference between God-called evangelists, but also the privilege we all have of being witnesses for Christ. Yeah, so we will do that on the other side of the break. The new book, Entrusted, Anchoring Your Life in the Gospel by David Shibley.

I could start reading the endorsements, but then we wouldn't have time for the rest of our interview. The gospel, clear in its content, captured by its subject, compelled by its beauty, convinced of its power, called to its standard, committed to its truth, commissioned for its advance. Those are the... Chapters, you know, it's a good time to focus on the gospel. This is a great time to focus on the gospel.

We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Friend, the greatest stewardship we have, the thing that's been entrusted to us, which is of most value, not just to us, but to all those around us, is the gospel message. We have been entrusted with it. That is the name of the new book by David Shibley, Entrusted Anchoring Your Life in the Gospel, Discovering Your Priceless Stewardship. All right, so David, we all know of the Billy Grahams of this world, of the mass evangelists, of the powerful revivalists like Steve Hill and the people who lead many people to the Lord. We see videos on YouTube of dynamic street evangelists healing the sick, and we think, man, I could never do that.

So is it just the evangelists that have been entrusted with the stewardship of the gospel? How does this relate to, quote, your average believer? The average believer is the one God uses most in the world. to advance the gospel. Uh the gospel uh over these last two hundred years since the days of William Carey in the beginning of the modernization movement.

has been borne on the backs and in the backpacks. of uh twenty somethings. Y Wim kids. Just men and women who give themselves to the gospel. But again, it's not just to missionaries or to evangelists, as you said.

It's for all of us. What happens when we allow our lives to be controlled by the Holy Spirit, the consequence of that is very clear, Jesus said. Said in Acts 1:8. The consequence is that you will be witnesses. To me.

The transliteration of that Greek word is where we get the English word martyr. Jesus was saying, even to the point of putting your life on the line. you'll just bear witness of me. And I think a lot of times, we've been too man centered in our approach to the gospel, confusing our testimonies with the gospel itself. Our testimonies are not the gospel.

They bear witness to the power of the gospel. The gospel is about what Jesus did. in our behalf, in his death and resurrection, and his offer of New and abundant and eternal life, everyone who has the hope of Christ in them, everyone who has been genuinely born of the Spirit. Through a new birth in Christ, placing their faith in Christ, they have this wonderful deposit. With which they are entrusted.

And even if we do it in faltering ways and halting ways, simply opening our mouths for Jesus, even if we don't get to share the whole nine yards of the gospel. Is extremely beneficial because scripture says, you know, some water, some plant, some reap the harvest. But it takes all of us together. And in a day when belligerence to the gospel seems to be growing very markedly. Uh that's the great time.

For us simply to do what Ann Graham Lotts just said in the break, for us to not be ashamed of the gospel and let the light of Christ shine. Shine through us. As you know, Michael, people are desperate today. Behind the facade of their ideologies, There are broken. Searching.

people. And if we simply care and let the light and love of Christ come out through us, amazing things Will happen.

So, this is for all of us. I had a pastor tell me one time, a young pastor, he said, You know, I don't have the gift of the evangelist, therefore, I. I don't have to win souls. I just have to nurture the flock. I said, okay, let's take that to its logical conclusion.

Uh next Sunday when you stand up to receive the offering, Say this, all of you who have the gift of giving, prepare your gift. The rest of you, of course, are exempt from giving.

Well, how foolish would that be? The rest of us have the privilege of giving. And in the same way, all of us have the privilege of bearing the light of Christ. And a witness for Christ. Witnesses something we do with our mouths.

The gospel is a message. Again, we get muddied and confused today, confusing the ramifications of the gospel and the result of the gospel with the gospel itself.

Someone recently told me, he said, you know, digging this water well is preaching the gospel. I said, brother, I'm glad you're digging that well, and it honors Christ, and it honors the gospel. But that is not preaching the gospel. Preaching the gospel is preaching the gospel. sharing the good news of what Christ has done in our behalf.

And What you're reminding us of, it's not the eloquence of our words, it's the power. of the message. And Paul also told Timothy, who was not by gift an evangelist, do the work of an evangelist.

So it's for those that are called to be pastors and for those that are called to be moms and dads and computer programmers and garbage collectors. That's the work of the evangelists we all do. Jesus didn't say, follow me, I'll make you apostles, said, Follow you, and I'll make you fishers of. of men. And when you talked at the beginning about what God's doing in India and Iran and these other places, it's people sharing the gospel with others, yes?

Absolutely, Michael. And in fact, There is no such thing as non-evangelistic discipleship. I've heard some people say, well, I'm not into evangelism. I'm into discipling believers.

Well If you're truly a follower of Jesus, as you just quoted in Matthew 4:19, you are going to fish for men, you are going to search out. For those who need to know the Lord Jesus in a real way. And this ridiculous dichotomy that some have made, where it's almost evangelism versus discipleship, there's none of that in the New Testament. It boils down to something very simple in the composite of the Great Commission. If I'm interacting with an unsaved person, my assignment is to get the gospel to that person.

If I'm interacting with a believer, my assignment is to move both of us. Toward maturity in Christ and to encourage and assist him as a disciple maker.

So that's it, we make this too difficult. Jesus just told us to be salt and light and to bear the name of Jesus, to exalt him. And he said, if that happens, I will draw people to myself. And as you said, The gospel itself has power. I think some of us have been inoculated to it, but this message of what Jesus did on the cross, taking our sins on himself.

And then rising again the third day. That message has transformative power, and it's proven itself over and over and over again. It's happening this very day while we speak, somewhere, someone is experiencing the power of the gospel. And if we'll just open our mouths in behalf of the Lord Jesus. And here's good news, amazing things begin to happen.

Yeah, I'm I'm listening here and getting convicted and thinking about you know I was flying last night sitting next to a a gal and thought maybe I should share the gospel. I thought I want to write and I want to rest And it's really not about what I want. It's about what the Lord wants and what this woman might need.

So your book, it's not going to drive us by guilt, but it's going to present a great, great picture. The new book, Entrusted by David Shibley. And again, let me just run through the table of contents with you. The gospel, clear in its content, captured by its subject, compelled by its beauty, convinced of its power, called to its standard, committed to its truth, commissioned for its advance. David, I pray that God will use this to spark a fresh wave of evangelism from readers and through believers everywhere.

Thank you so much, Michael. And of course, that's my prayer as well.

So it's going to happen because the two of us are in agreement. Amen. God bless you. Thanks so much. Thanks.

All right, friends. I think it was very healthy for us in the midst of very, very intense emotion and discussion regarding. racism, division, president, politics in America to step back and focus on our great message, the gospel. We'll be right back. Boy, I'm pent up.

A lot to talk about today from racism to Charlottesville to the president. Oh, pro-life missions and more. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. All right, friends, the world is swirling around us.

Never a dull moment as we're doing live talk radio. President Trump issued a statement a few minutes ago that we played in the first hour where he categorically denounced white supremacists, neo-Nazis. Right now, what we need to do as God's people is be the church in the midst of all of the confusion and chaos around us. What we need to do is rise up and be the salt and be the light and not be torn by division that's in our country and strife. What we need to do is step back, get our heads clear, and then speak redemptively into the chaos that's around us.

In the second half of this hour, we're going to be joined by a former KKK member who now pastors a multiracial church. We want to be as redemptive and clear as we can, but there's a subject that's always of great concern to us here at the Line of Fire, and it's the ultimate issue. Of life and death, and the ultimate issue of justice in our country, and it has to do with the treatment of the unborn. We're going to start there, and then later in the show, we'll go back to what's happening in Charlottesville.

So, I'm joined in the studio by a couple of special guests: Fletcher Armstrong, who is the director. Of Southeast Director for the Center of Bioethical Reform. She's got a PhD from Clemson University. And Joanna Kilson, graduate of UNC Greensboro, having earned her BS degree in public health education. Fletcher and Joanna, great to be with us.

Great to be here. Thank you for letting us. Wonderful to be here. Thank you. All right.

So, Joanna, you are fairly new. To the Center of Bioethical Reform, tell us about the calling burden in your heart and what exactly you're going to be doing. Thank you. So I got started. In pro-life work in college, um, it was a time that God was really waking me up.

Um a lot of things and one of the things being um what's going on. In our culture and in our nation, we're killing our children, and it continues. And Someone should do something and I can do something.

Now so so here as as a single young woman you get gripped by this. Was it the atmosphere at your college? Was it something that happened in your private life? What what is it that that got you burdened? Yeah, so I knew about the issue.

My mom actually helped start one of the first crisis pregnancy centers before. They even existed in Maryland years ago. And I got involved with the local pregnancy center. There was someone at my church that just. I thi I don't even remember exactly how it got started.

God just called me and said, I said, Okay, I'll do something. And there was a campus organization that was getting started. At UNC Greensboro, and they had to fight the university because the university Said, no, you can't be. Um Based on these values. And so we got legal help, and then they said, okay, you're an organization.

And so I led the. campus arm. of the pregnancy center, um my senior year in college. All right, we've got just 45 seconds before this break, but you're sitting here talking to me with a big smile on your face. You seem to be energetic.

You seem to be joyful. What is the source of that energy and joy when you're in the midst of a real life and death struggle? God I have hope in Christ and that he's working and, um, we just get to enter into it and be a part of His work, and I know who wins, whose side we're on, even though it looks like the majority is on the other side, and that Satan and death, the culture of death, is winning, but we know that it doesn't. And so I'm pretty. Privileged to be part of the fight.

Awesome. All right, we come back, want to begin to speak with Fletcher and Joanna about what the Center of Bioethical Reform does. and what progress is being made. If we can make progress here, With the stronghold of Roe v. Wade and the stronghold of over 55 million babies slaughtered in the last 40 plus years, we can make headway anywhere.

We'll be right back. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame. Send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire. A little bit later in this hour, we'll.

Be talking redemptively about what the church can do in the midst of racial strife and division, political chaos, how we can be, in the words of Dr. King, the moral conscience of the society. But if there's ever an issue where the church must be the moral conscience of society, it's in the issue of abortion.

So, sitting in the studio with me, we've got three guests from the Center for Bioethical Reform. Fletcher Armstrong is the Southeast Director. Fletcher, welcome back to the line of fire. That was good to be here again. Thank you.

What is the Center for Bioethical Reform?

Well, we exist to as an advocacy organization on behalf of vulnerable people, including the unborn, the aged, the infirm. But we really, to be honest, we spend most of our focus and effort on abortion because as long as we're killing a million children, our own children every year in this country. We're never going to get these other things right.

So we really s spend most of our time working on abortion. We are an education organization. We don't do lobbying. We don't endorse candidates. But we absolutely advocate on behalf of unborn children.

And our main our main role is to develop new educational materials and and develop um educational materials and programs that people all over the world are using. Got it. I remember some years ago you commented on what the church prioritizes. you know, we we will pay for certain staff. And this is important, you know, and we'll have a youth leader or have a worship leader or have children's pastor different things like this.

A conversation I had, if not with you, another pro-life leader. Probably it could have been me.

Okay, I thought it was you. I thought it was you. But I remember you making these comments, or someone that strikes me as being you, making these comments that we prioritize all these different things, and we say we're pro-life, but we don't seem to prioritize it. We don't seem to put money, energy, attention, effort into it. I mean, think about it.

They're decapitating and dismembering little children down the street. And there's a and if you look at the budgets and the graduates of most major Christian universities around the country, you would think that one of our biggest spiritual problems that there are is that our music isn't good enough on Sunday morning. And we spend millions and tens of millions of dollars around this country, church money, Uh hiring. Full-time people to make our music sound better on Sunday morning, but yet babies are dying down the street, and we spend almost no church money, no church staff time, no effort to do anything at all about that. And, you know, if you look through the Old Testament, you'll never find a single time in which God chastened his people because their music wasn't good enough, but yet.

He sent his own children into captivity. He allowed the Babylonians to come. And kill many of them, take them into captivity, burn their cities, and so forth. Because of the practice of sacrificing their children to pagan gods. And that's what abortion is.

Abortion is sacrificing a child to a pagan god. Why do you feel that we have this blind spot? I'm all for having good music power in terms of worship and the importance of that in the life of the body. But Even if we weren't devoting money, just effort, energy. You know, you don't have to devote money to be a presence in front of an abortion clinic.

You don't have to devote money to be involved in a pregnancy crisis center or to help it. You know, there's so many things you can do. And then, of course, we should invest money in the effort. Why do we have this blind spot? I mean, we we know it's wrong, we say it's wrong, but it doesn't seem to connect.

All right, go back to Birmingham in the in the mid 1800s and try to find a church in Birmingham, Alabama, or any southern city, where they routinely preached against uh uh against slavery. because so many people in our churches have been either complicit or complacent Well, I say it's complicit. One of every five women who aborts her child identifies herself as a born-again or evangelical Christian.

So that means 200. Yeah. children are being aborted in our evangelical or born-again churches every year. And that's and it's not just the women. If we've got 200,000 women involved, then there's 200,000 men involved because they play a part in this too.

So the church is involved in this, and Doing anything about it, saying anything about it, showing people the truth of what it looks like. I mean, Most most Most people who attend a pro-life church have never actually seen with their own eyes what an abortion is and what it does. And if you've never seen it, You tend to think that it's evil, but you don't really know how evil it really is, and you don't really understand. The nature of the evils to the extent that you would understand God's command that we be a witness against this evil. Got it.

Got it. And we see it all over. I mean, uh, The church has become a business. And people are very reticent to do things that they know are going to upset people in the church because. Those people leave the church.

Um My p my boss gave a talk at a church in Wichita, Kansas a few years ago, and He spoke at all the services, There were like six services, and 14 families left the church. But three women wrote a letter to the pastor and said, I came to your church, I heard the sermon on abortion, I saw the abortion video you played, and I've decided not to go through with that abortion that I had planned to have.

So, when we show people into pews, when we show Christians, What abortion is and what it does. Then they get a sense of how evil it really is, and they get a sense of their own personal responsibility to avoid. That sin in the first place, but also to be a voice against evil and a witness on behalf of the victims. Got it. Got it.

Well said, clearly said. Michaela Raymond, also with us in the studio, is a recent graduate of Liberty University, and she's joined the team, the Center for Bioethical Reform. I've joined the team in May. Michaela, welcome to the line of fire. Oh, thank you so much.

All right, so how did you get the burden to get involved and to say, hey, I want to give this season of my life full-time to doing this?

Well, at Liberty University, I learned what abortion was just because there was a little pro-life group on campus. And they just said, hey, do you want to join? I didn't really know much about the pro-life movement or anything about abortion, but I was like, oh, sure, you know. I kind of knew, I don't remember how much I knew, but I knew a little bit about what abortion was, I think. And I kind of assumed that everyone was pro-life and that anyone who was, you know, in favor of any kind of abortion, that must be such a small part of the Of America.

So I joined without even really thinking about it too much. But that's when I learned in that group that it's a huge issue that we're We're avoiding Hundreds and thousands of children every year, and everyone's celebrating it or thinking it's okay, or just not even talking about it at all. And I was shocked, and I was just. You know, I figured I should definitely do something about this at least while I'm here in college.

So, in college, I got involved with the sidewalk counseling ministry. And when I did that, I was faced with a lot of persecution. I kind of felt like all of the pro-choicers who might exist on Liberty's campus would come to me and kind of be shocked and surprised about why I was doing this. And just to be honest, as a black person, I feel like a lot of people kind of assumed that I would be on the other side. And so, when they would come and talk to me, they would assume that I would be on their side, and you know, they would, you know, talk normally, talk honestly with me, and then I would reveal that I was actually not only pro-life, but doing something about it actively because it was, you know, we're decapitating and dismembering these little children, and we're just calling it a political thing, we're calling it a liberal thing, but it's just an evil thing, basically.

So, I was faced with a lot of persecution, but That persecution just kind of led me towards God a lot more and focusing on Him, focusing on what He wanted me to do instead of what I wanted to do to be comfortable. And I think all of those things played a factor in why, when the Center for Ethical Reform came and asked me if I would like to work with them, I was able to, you know, pray and honestly seek out what God wanted for me and to say, Yes, you know what? I think God is leading me to work in this organization and to just kind of. Go for that as well as I could. And you know, in my mind, demographically, if there's any one.

Segment of the population that should be at the front of the pro-life w movement, it's black women. Because I look at this as a black genocide, I look at this as a satanic attack to destroy black lives. And then the black women in particular can be the victims in so many ways, the whole culture and on and on, and the fatherlessness and men not taking responsibility.

So I think if there's anyone to champion the cause, it'd be someone like you. Yeah, no, I think I agree with you because, I mean, abortion destroys so many black children every year. And in fact, it suppresses the black vote more than the Ku Klux Klan and basically any other thing that people will accuse of trying to suppress the black vote. You know, and it's just a terrible thing that's happening in our culture and people just kind of look at it as a political thing, like, oh, you know, um, it's not really a big deal, but, you know. Thousands of these black women are killing these black children.

They're misinformed, they're scared, and they're dealing with the difficulties in our culture. But they're not really getting that not only education and support, but just that honest talk about what abortion actually is and what it's doing to us. When we come back, I'd like to do this. I want to ask Fletcher another question. Then I want to speak to Joanna and Nikayla as young women.

in terms of what they hear from other young women. But last question, we've just got 30 seconds, Michaela. In your mind, from what you could tell, How large was the, quote, pro-choice? Uh population at School Like Liberty. Oh, I don't know how to say it honestly, but for me, every single person who talked to me about abortion was pro-choice.

And so, out of a campus of 14,000 students, That's got to be at least 100 students at the least. Got it. So, and you don't know the size of the minority, but even at a Christian campus, a campus that big, that everyone's going to. Share these views in depth. Hopefully, they get educated in it.

All right, we come back. I want to ask Fletcher a question: Is it appropriate? Is it really appropriate on a Sunday morning church service? to show pictures of abortions. Is that the time and the place?

We'll start there and then Talk to these two young ladies. We'll be right back. Angel World It's fire we want, for fire we It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire, 866-34TRUTH. Number to call, this is Michael Brown. And we are focusing, as we often do, on the issue of life, pro-life.

Incredible call we got a couple of weeks ago, moving call from a Christian woman who had taken a job at Planned Parenthood as a single mom, thinking she needed it to make money, and her friends saying you're not actually involved in performing abortions, wanted to know what I had to say. And anyway, I told her she had to get out of there. As of now, she couldn't go back to work another day, and that God would forgive her, but that she needed to move on, and it was no different than if her job was counting slaves getting off a boat or counting numbers of shoes of Jews getting killed in the Holocaust. And anyway, after that, she began to pour her heart out, broke down sobbing and saying that they call it the products of conception. It's not, it's baby.

And she just went on. And so we've been connecting her with pro-life friends. And she called in that Monday and got out of there.

So, I mean, we're... We're talking about life and death issues. Right before the break, we were talking to Michaela about Liberty University, and it's a great school, fine school, wonderful school in so many ways. But she was saying that anecdotally. She ran into a hundred students.

that were all talking, that were strongly pro-choice and were surprised with her pro-life position.

So 100 out of how many, we don't know. But In other words, even at a Christian campus, who knows? You might have 5%, you might have 10%, you may have 20% that are, quote, pro-choice, because that's the environment in which so many were raised. Fletcher, Showing pictures. Of aborted babies.

Is that the kind of thing you do in a Sunday morning church service? Come on, man. You're there to worship God and meet with God and be uplifted and encouraged. Is that the time to do that? Absolutely.

The Great Commission says to go out and make disciples into the world. But that's part A. Part B is to teach the disciples to obey all that I commanded.

Well, what did you what did God command? When he listed the commandments for the rich young ruler, the first commandment he listed was do not murder. And about fifteen nearly fifteen percent of our Um Women in our churches and born-again evangelical women are having abortions, and that means f Nearly 15% of our young men are fathering children and often paying for abortions.

So their abortion is happening in a church. And um And the reason that it's happening is because people They know how ev they know abortion is and evil, but they don't understand that it's how evil it really is. They don't understand that it decapitates and dismembers a little human being. They don't understand that it's child sacrifice. And when the church is silent, Um Babies are killed.

When the pastor speaks but does not show the pictures, some babies are saved, but other babies are killed who could have been saved if he would have been willing to share the whole truth. We need to give the whole counsel of God. Got it. And people have to see it in order to understand how evil it is. Got it.

All clear. All clear. So we're going to swap out Fletcher and Joanna here for a moment and go back to Michaela.

So When you are talking. Sidewalk counselor, young black woman. uh talking to other young ladies what what would you say is the most Powerful objection you hear, the the thing that is emotionally, psychologically the toughest thing to to answer or the the most heart-rending. Um well, I don't know if I would say it's the most heartrending, but I know that the most common one that I would hear is that these mothers just don't have the time and money, and that's very difficult for a lot of families. And, you know, we don't want to turn our nose up at those things, but um it was the most common one I heard, and it was one that it just it hurts the mother and family to just, you know, be so focused on how much money they have, how much time they have, whether or not they can financially just support a child, but they're not focussing on the humanity of that child or what that child would What would happen to that child in an abortion?

And Joanna, and get as close to the mic as you can as you speak. Thanks. Women that are contemplating abortion, many of them think they're doing the compassionate thing to have an abortion. That's hard to say, I think that they want to believe that. But Um, I think reality, they know deep down that they're what they're doing is wrong, but they are told by society and they tell themselves, you know, this is for the good of myself, my family, my life, and even my children.

You know, they would I can't take care of them or, you know. And Right, so what do you say then? Do you encourage them, Michaela, to think in terms of adoption? Do you tell them that there are alternatives? Or do you just focus on the humanity of the baby?

Well, with my background so far, doing sidewalk counseling and actually talking to these women, we were able to, you know, if they came and talked to us, to actually help them directly. You know, we were linked to pregnancy centers and other organizations around college our college campus, and we would offer to you know house them if they needed, give them food, give them whatever they needed to escape a dangerous situation they might be in.

So those are the things in my background that we've actually offered to them. And when you see someone make a decision, Joanna. to to keep their baby. uh or if you've watched over the years, maybe with with your mom and pregnancy crisis center, that kind of thing, do you ever get to see afterwards, hear from the person or see the child? Or have you had that experience yet?

So, in my background with the pregnancy centers, I wasn't a peer advocate, but I definitely heard stories of women who did choose life. and we're so thankful and I know the statistic that, you know, even in the case of the hardest thing, rape, you know, or one of the hardest things, um, that the overwhelming majority of women are grateful that they chose life even in that circumstance. And, um, Yeah, so so Getting someone on the other side of it, we get emails periodically from a local ministry here where they send, here are the baby showers for the babies, and here are the couples or the single moms, and it's just amazing, because that's me. I said, okay, that's what didn't happen, that's what wouldn't have happened, and could have ended up as so-called products of conception cut up in pieces in a bottle somewhere.

So as you young ladies are in the midst of conflict and people pushing back against you, Do you see the pro-life side, the pro-life argument, getting out. More, do you see hearts and minds of young people being changed, ultrasounds, those kinds of things? Go ahead. I definitely do. I think that we're seeing in our youth definitely more pro-life.

mindset and as people's minds are being changed and as you know our generation is maybe rebelling against the liberalism of our parents' generation. I know people younger than myself, I have friends who are going to college and they're so strongly pro-life. And definitely, you know, there are the people that are strongly committed to the pro abortion or pro-choice side, but there are so many people that are open and it's the most beautiful thing to have someone listen. Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree with that, Joanna. And also for me, when I was at Liberty University, I noticed that when the David DeLeiden videos came out, they were kind of helpful to those who are already pro-life and learned about that to actually mobilize them and get them into it.

And it's just that imagery of the abortions that actually happen and take place and, you know, selling the body parts and all of those things. You know, seeing those things in an actual video kind of motivated more pro-lifers to get involved. Yeah. Any final comment you wanted to add? I wasn't sure.

No?

Okay. So. Let me just say this. If you go back to immediately after Roe v. Wade, it was settled, it was done, that's it.

galvanized, move on, and I don't think the pro-abortion activists figured that over 40 years later, the pro-life movement would be stronger than ever. Every life matters deeply.

So let's rejoice with every life saved and let's cry out until the tide has turned. Center for Bioethical Reform, pray for these young ladies on the front lines. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. We are going to be Redemptive. We are going to be peacemakers, not troublemakers.

We are going to be ambassadors of reconciliation. We are going to build bridges, not tear bridges down. This is Michael Brown. Welcome to the line of fire, 866-348-7884. I announced A few minutes back.

Those of you just joining me now, that we'd be speaking with a former KKK leader who now pastors a multiracial church. There was a mix-up with the guests being on today, but hopefully later in the week we will do that. What I want to do. What I want to do today is focus on how we can bring a redemptive note. in the midst of the racial division, political division.

even spiritual division taking place in America Today. And I'm saying this in the aftermath of the tragedy in Charlotte. I'm saying this in the aftermath of President Trump as of today condemning white supremacists, neo-Nazis by name. I'm saying this in the aftermath of charges of racism flying both ways. I'm saying this in the aftermath of All of the exacerbating of racial tension that we've had in the last years.

under President Obama and under President Trump. Whoever is responsible whatever reason or cause. things are much more exacerbated now. I want to be as redemptive as possible. You can weigh in.

Number to call 866-348-7884, but only relating to the divisions of the country. In other words, it's not. just answering your Bible questions or general theological things. We want to focus on this. Not even not even talking about North Korea and potential of world war and all that.

Not today. Not today. Let me read something again that I posted earlier. And I wrote this during a break. I was just so grieved in my heart.

You know what grieves me the most? It's how we Followers of Jesus handle the divisions in our country.

So many of us seem to be so quick to react.

so quick to get all our news from one side only.

so quick to make superficial, semi informed judgments against others.

so quick to divide over race or politics. We must stop. step higher. How are we being sought and light? How are we, in the words of Darka King, serving as the moral conscience of the nation.

So I'm looking at comments pouring in on social media. from different folks who identify as followers of Jesus. And the level of divisiveness in the comments, the level of just believing One side of the news without even thinking there's another position, the level of being as worldly. and politically influenced as anybody else, that's grievous. And look.

It's one thing if you say I think what the President said was divisive. I think what the President said was healing. That's one thing I said. I think that President Obama should have handled this this way. I think President Obama could have handled it this way.

All right, that's one thing, and of course, we're going to have our opinions. It's another thing where, based on limited information, We're going to call someone a racist or a bigot. I'm just look, I've never written an article in my life defending Steve Bannon. I don't know him at all, but as far as I know, he's not a racist. And Breitbart is not a white supremacist website.

That I can tell you going there a lot is one of the news sources I go to. I go from all different sides and get news from all different viewpoints. But when I see people posting Steve Bannon is a white supremacist, that's a heavy accusation. And it's a heavy accusation without substance. And if we're going to throw those things around, whether it's on the right, on the left, Black, white, green, yellow, Jew, Gentile.

Just throw that stuff out. We gotta be careful, friends. Our words Carry Wait. Let us speak. carefully.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire 866-348-7884.

Here is a narrative that I am strongly rejecting. Are you ready? Here's a narrative that I am strongly rejecting. I'm strongly rejecting a narrative that says because the KKK endorsed President Trump, therefore if you voted for President Trump, you are pro-KKK. That is complete nonsense.

Did the the New Black Panthers endorse Barack Obama. I assume they did. I mean, they certainly stood in front of certain voting places. Does that mean that those that voted for Barack Obama endorse New Black Panthers? Of course not.

Of course not. So it's it's this kind of narrative that I'm not buying into. And I'm not buying into the narrative that President Trump as President has encouraged neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups because he has not. And there is not a a a plank of his uh of his platform that was in any way explicitly racist. And as I mentioned earlier in the broadcast, there are folks working close with him that have told me about his genuine burden to help those in the inner cities and to help empower them.

And there we are talking about primarily minorities.

So the fact that he has an issue with certain people coming into the country is not because of race or ethnicity, it's because of possible terrorism or possible crime. But those that are legitimate immigrants and looking to take refuge under the wings of the United States and become Part of our country and help us build our future, people like that are always welcome, and that's part of the lifeblood of America.

So here's some of what I have shared about Charlottesville. And I'm going to lay this out. Feel free to disagree.

Alright. 866-34TRUTH and the larger issues we're facing right now. in the body. Here in America, as we face the challenges of a divided country. Number one, Although there were certainly divisive aspects to Trump's campaign, there's little evidence that he's racist.

And from the reports I hear from people close to me, it's a genuine burden to help the inner cities, which are largely minority, as I just said. Chew. Let's assume that many white nationalists voted for Trump. Still, they make up a tiny part of his overall base. They don't reflect the sentiments of the vast majority of his voters.

Three. It's a non-sequitur to argue, no, it doesn't follow, that because the KKK supported Trump, others who voted Trump support the KKK. I'm sure the new Black Panthers overwhelmingly voted for Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton doesn't mean that a white California Jew who voted for Obama and Hillary supports the new Black Panthers. The vast majority of evangelical Christians denounce racism. and have no connection with the alt-right or with white Supremacists.

The fact that some white racists use Christianity as a cloak tells us one thing only: they are. Hypocrites Five. Identity politics can be just as dangerous as outright racism. Both are divisive. Both demean the value of others, and both make judgments based on skin color or ethnicity.

Six? We should distance ourselves from the extremism of groups like Black Lives Matter and Antifa, just as we distance ourselves from the extremism of white nationalism. exposing the hateful rhetoric, rejecting the violent acts, and saying with one loud voice, As Americans, this is not who we are.

So It's quotes from my article directly. If you haven't read it yet, go to askdrbrown.org. It's called Charlottesville: White Supremacists, Evangelicals, Racists, and Trump. You can read it at askdrbrown.org, a-sk-d-r-brown.org, along with a number of videos on a wide range of interests. Answering all kinds of fascinating Bible-related questions and some great interviews we've had here on the Line of Fire, all on the website askdrbrown.org.

So I've been sharing some from my article here. Here's how I close it out. Right now across the country there is massive distrust. polarization, misunderstanding, and misrepresentation. rather than bring us together much of the media is fanning the flames of division and fear.

They're often grossly hypocritical. They find fault with one extreme and downplay the other. At volatile times like this when our blind spots only become bigger, We must decide to be part of the solution and not the problem. That means listening before speaking? Yeah, that's a big one for me.

Listen first. Digest what's being said first. Consider the possibility that the person speaking has a perspective I don't have or you don't have. Consider the possibility that the person speaking may have a valid point. All right?

listening before speaking understanding before giving an opinion, And caring before the criticize it. Come on. I'm not the only one that immediately my tendency is to argue my point rather than to hear the other side. Or am I the only one that does that? Am I the only one who, as the person speaking, I'm formulating my response rather than digesting what they have to say and thinking, is there any truth to it?

Am I the only one that just judges others? Am I the only one that does that? And that says, oh, oh, oh. Oh, you're having that position because this is your bias, this is your background, this is your news sources, as opposed to objectively evaluating, am I the only one that sometimes does that?

So I do my best. Here, when you call in, Here's what I see. On my screen I see your name I see your city, And I see in less than one line, I mean, one line meaning a few words, just one line on a tiny little box on a screen. what your subject is.

Sometimes it's not even clear what particular position you're going to take, just the subject you want to address, but then other times specifically clear. You have this view, you have that view, this question, that question. We get as clear as we can before you come on. I may think I disagree with you looking at that, but here's my stance when you call. Let me see what you have to say.

Genuinely. That that's my stance. I may even recognize, it's not often, but I may recognize a name and a city. It's like, ah, I remember that guy, because it's a different name, different city, that kind of thing. And so I know where that guy or that gal is coming from.

I still have to say to myself, okay, let's see what they have to say. And listen first before I respond.

So I'm being honest with you as a debater, as an arguer, I mean that's my tendency is as you're speaking, so I'm in a public debate, I'm writing down notes as you're speaking, I'm writing them down to rebut them. But in interaction and conversation and going back and forth, that's not what we're doing.

So we have to listen before we speak, understand before we give an opinion, care before we criticize, and the question is will we be peacemakers or troublemakers? ones who build bridges or blow up bridges. those who reach out, or those who push away.

So, whether we like it or not, with our deep differences and strong convictions, we're one nation under God, and united we stand, divided we fall, which.

Well they 866-34TRUTH. Let's go to Thomas and Raleigh. Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you, doctor Brown, for taking my call. You're very welcome, sir.

I'd like to make a quick comment with regard to the topic today. And what I see is that the President today made what I thought was a very disingenuous, scripted uh response to the events in Charlottesville. Um that the country spoke loud and clear. The truth Nature of America spoke loud and clear with the election of Mr. Trump.

And Mr. Trump is not I believe Mr. Trump is a racist. I know that I can't prove that, but I do believe that he is and those that surround him. And again, as you mentioned, I can't prove that.

But I but I but trying to equate what's happening what happened in Charlottesville with Black Lives Matter, and I'm black. Uh it's it's just not the same, sir. it's just not the same. And trying to equate what this President with President Obama It's not the same. And so I think That's Christian.

I just think we just need to take a look at at ourselves, internally, at our scripture. And it tells us that we're going to be in times like this. But I think we're in for difficult times. I think this country is more divided than ever. And I won't place that at the feet of either one of these presidents, but.

But I just think we're in in big trouble. And so that that's my comment, sir. Tell you what. Uh Just take one more minute. I'm not going to dispute you.

I want to hear your side, all right? But we've just got one minute before the break. The number one thing that makes you feel that the President is a racist. The number one thing I think is his behavior. His comments His lack of comments.

and the direction that he's taking this country. is his insistence upon destroying health care for millions of underprivileged black and Latino and poor white. His insistence on doing that, his insistence on overturning everything that Obama did just for the fact of overturning it. I think he is a racist. I think his history spoke to that in the housing situation in New York.

etcetera.

So, yeah, I think that he is. I I don't have any truth, but That's my opinion. And I guess I can be persuaded otherwise. But that president stood today. He was not serious.

He was not sincere. And anybody who watched him knew he was reading and it was not from the heart. He's supposed to be a a person who brings the country together. He said nothing but pander to the thirty nine percent and vote again on that. All right, very interesting.

All right, sir, I appreciate you weighing in. I've got a very different perspective on much of what you said, but I wanted to hear from you as a God-fearing man. Thank you, sir, for calling. God bless you. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. So you know where I stand?

I believe President Obama was tremendously divisive. I believe President Trump has been tremendously divisive. I believe that we've seen ugly divisions both ways. I believe that the church needs to do much better. and that we cannot be caught up in the political moment.

I disagree with my last caller's perspective in terms of why President Trump is doing what he's doing, but I 100%. Understand that that is his perspective and that he says it as a God-fearing man. and that he is concerned about the direction of the country. I fully respect that. I fully respect his position.

I hope he can respect my position. And that's why our phone lines are open.

Alright, so I may probe, I may want to disagree on something, but I want to hear from you. from you, our listeners. I I I did a Twitter poll earlier. A leader just sent me a note asking me why I would even do this, but I want to. see what My listening audience, viewing audience, or your social media audience feels, perceives.

All right. So I said, can you say with certainty that the President is or is not a racist? I am not trying to determine truth here. I'm simply monitoring your views. 9% said certainly racist.

60% said certainly not racist. 31% said not sure. All right. Rod Drer tweeted this out earlier, media. Conservatives must denounce white supremacy.

Conservatives, down with white supremacy. Media, you don't really mean it.

Well, What if they don't really mean it? Then that's a fair question. Why didn't the president immediately come out and say things on Saturday and name white supremacists by name? You say, well, there is. Violence on both sides or rally counter rally.

Yeah, but it was one guy. With a terrorist attack of crashing a car into the crowd. And that one guy was on the white supremacist side.

So that's what you focus on. And it doesn't matter what else is going on, you condemn neo-Nazis, period. You condemn white supremacists, period, period. Right? Uh So I understand why there's the uproar, but I believe what President Trump said, he said sincerely today.

In any case, I want to take as much time as I can to hear from as many of you as I can, and we can disagree. I'm going to look you in the eye and hug you as a brother or sister and say, come on, let's get to know each other better and bring healing to our country and bring the message of the gospel to our country. And I'm sure Thomas that just called in would say the same to me. He couldn't have been more respectful and gracious in what he said. We have a difference.

That's fine. And the truth may be somewhere between both of us, right? Let's go to Winston-Salem. Tyler, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, doctor Brown.

Thank you for having me on. Sure. Um I don't really think it's relevant, but I'll say it. Because I think it's Kind of relevant to the statements I'm going to say. I'm also a black male.

And I see a lot on Facebook, and I hear from people that all white people need to repent. Hint of per racist things that they haven't committed. And I see this I think idea of what I've heard called cultural Marxism. seeping into the church. calling for a blanket repentance for a group of people even though they may have nothing at all to do with the events in Charlottesville.

How would you say is the best way to deal with that biblically? Because I'll look at people who are. um let's say the people that I live with who are white. Yeah. I know that they are completely.

completely not you know, completely removed from the situation. have conversations with them and I'm not I have no anger, I have no bitterness towards them, but I see that it is almost to an extent being encouraged Bitterness towards those who just happen to be white or a certain skin color, and then also. A since A sense that these people, this general blanket group of people, need to repent, even though they have nothing to deal with it. Yes, sir.

So, yeah, a very important point. Number one, Just in a dialogue with someone if this came up. I would say, well, were we asking all black Americans to repent over what a black shooter did when he took out policemen, assassinated policemen in Texas, in Dallas, last year? Ostensibly inspired by Black Lives Matter rallies and those kinds of things. Did it occur to you to go to your black neighbor?

I'm a white person, go to a black neighbor and say, Will you denounce this? Or to ask black Christian leaders across America, will you denounce it? Why? Why make any connection?

So there's been a double standard. I'd first expose the ugly double standard. Then, in terms of responsibility, Here's how things work biblically. If the The sin is ongoing. For example, we were still practicing slavery or segregation, God forbid.

If we were still doing that, right? then we have to repent of not acting on it. Or if the wound remains, the thing was fixed, but the wound still remains because of the system that's been set up in place, then we need to deal with it. But if something happens somewhere else, or if a white person in South Africa did something, do I have to repent of it here in America? If a black person in Nigeria did something, do you have to repent of it here in America?

That's complete nonsense. And there is an ugly narrative. Look, there are college classes now. Just saw one. We have to abolish whiteness.

When I was part of a debate, having to be two white men debating a black woman and a black man about homosexuality in the Bible, but that just happened to be the demographic. We were basically told at one point. That we have the white supremacist position, basically. And we've even heard that there could be no black racism towards whites because whites are the majority. This is complete nonsense.

So, what we have to get back to is justice. Justice doesn't see color. Justice doesn't see ethnicity. Justice sees what's right. And that's what we need to speak to one another because we are being ripped apart.

And the identity politics that have been rampant for years are ripping us apart. And they, to me, identity politics, sir, are just as racist as the KKK.

So, thank you for calling and raising that 866-34TRUTH. Let's go to Judy and Charlotte. Welcome to the line of fire. Hello. Uh Hello, I'm right here.

I just wanna say that um Both sides need to realize that we are not going to get 100% satisfaction here on Earth. That's the bottom line. But we do have to have patience and mercy on each other. We have to have patience and mercy because nobody is perfect. No race is perfect.

So we had a Endure each other and Educate each other. and love one another. to hear each other out and realize that we're not going to get one hundred percent satisfaction on either side here on Earth. I understand that it's been locksided so far, it's been lopsided. But There are people on both sides that's willing to hear each other and willing to make.

Uh Like amends with each other and hear one another out and come to an agreement. To honor and respect each other. And that's what we have to. Uh realize and room with. In order for us to live peaceably and coexist with each other.

We are all human beings in Okay. Everyone. anyone out there has seeing the mixtures of families. You can empathize and see that You have to Both sides have to give And both sides have to be uh have mercy on each other and and I'm just Like come through uh A common ground, so to speak. Yeah, Judy, Judy, tell you what, we're out of time.

But what you said is just what we need to hear. Thank you. Sorry we couldn't get to more calls. We'll try again tomorrow. Friends, go to askdrbrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org.

You need to read the articles there.