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Is the Son Eternally Subordinate to the Father?

Core Christianity / Adriel Sanchez and Bill Maier
The Truth Network Radio
November 15, 2021 6:30 am

Is the Son Eternally Subordinate to the Father?

Core Christianity / Adriel Sanchez and Bill Maier

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November 15, 2021 6:30 am

Episode 837 | Adriel Sanchez and Bill Maier answer caller questions.

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Questions in this Episode

1. I am following up on what you said about “not forsaking the assembly” in Hebrews 10. I want to go to church, but what if you are crippled and can’t get to a church on your own and no one seems to want anything to do with you? I love the Lord but I have no one who wants to pick me up and take me to church.

2. I would like to ask a question about some of the recent statements by Owen Strachan on the trinity. He says that the Son if Eternally Subordinate to the Father, not just submissive to the Father in his earthly ministry. What do you think?

3. How do I parent my adult children while respecting their boundaries?

4. Why should we bother praying if God is sovereign over everything?

5. I notice that people who practice witchcraft or play with ouija boards seem to get answers to their questions almost immediately. But when I pray, it seems as though I don’t get answers by God until months, sometimes years later. Why is that?

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Eternally subordinate to the father.

That's just one of the questions will be answering on today's edition of core Christianity why this is Bill Meyer along with Pastor Israel Sanchez and this is the radio program where we answer your questions about the Bible and the Christian life every day. You can call us right now with your question. At 833 the core that's 1-833-843-2673 also post your question on our Facebook, Instagram or twitter account and you can always email us your question at questions at core, first up today let's go to a question we received from one of our listeners named Mary what when churches don't want to call myself all now I can play the keyboard like you wouldn't believe that down now and I can still walk a little but now they want to be bothered with what might get you a wonderful relationship with the Lord that nobody wants to handicap people or somebody that can afford one of those big break and share your mobile carrier and hello my hi Mary, I am just so sorry to hear about the situation that you're in a sense that you're not able to get a ride to church. I would recommend contacting the churches in your area. Several churches in your area that you know teach the Bible faithfully and just reaching out seeing if if maybe they have a system of getting people to church often unite our church. For example, when when somebody's jutting they can get to church for one reason or another. If the issue is transportation. A lot of times the deacons of our church will will provide rides that's I'm just really sorry to hear about about that minute.

It is something that were called to were called to fellowship with one another than the passage that I mentioned I sound like you were referring to a question that we received the other day from Hebrews chapter 10, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, that it sounds like you you want to gather with other believers, but you're not able to because of your your handicap and so I would just I would just pray that the Lord opens doors and provides people who are going to love you and and come alongside of you and and help you get the church, assuming we can pray for for Mary right now to do that in Lord, thank you for for Mary thank you for the question that she called in and I I pray for her Lord, that you would lead her to a church in her area, Lord, that she can get into contact with.

That will be able to provide rides for her to church so that she can gather together with your people. I thank you Lord that she wants together with your people that she wants to worship you and and so I asked Lord that you would just open those doors and and surround her Lord with the community of Saints that is going to love her and take care of her as one of your sheep, Lord, so please be with her. I ask in Jesus name, amen, amen. Well that is really a tragedy Israel to hear of her situation.

I mean, what is the body of Christ all about. I'm sure it is. A pastor must break your heart to hear that yeah it it it absolutely does and you were called to take care of one another within the body of Christ and in the needs to meet the needs that are there when somebody is struggling with with sickness by financially even it's one of the reasons why the church has deacons.

A lot of people don't understand you know that the role of the diaconate, but that the deacons near throughout the history of the church.

One of the things I did was was helped to care for the sick and and provide rides to church those kinds of things and so I do hope that she's able to find a solid Bible teaching church where the community there is is can come around her and encourage her faith. If you have a question for Pastor Israel about the Bible or the Christian life, theology, doctrine, how your Christian walk intersects with our culture. Give us a call right now. Here's the phone number it's 833 the core that's 1-833-843-2673. There's a call that came in from Julie hi Pastor hey Jill please can you author a question about I will install and the train attainment because he saying that Jesus is submissive to the fact that any sanitation not just Internet/cell and that he can't give me your take on that thinking yeah so thank you for the question. Were talking about God, the holy Trinity in the life of the Trinity. If you will now. Historically, the church has been willing to say that Jesus is subordinate to the father in the economy of salvation that is in the incarnation, the humiliation that Jesus underwent you think of passages like Philippians chapter 2 describing that humiliation that Jesus Hunter underwent and then his exaltation, and so is it so there is a sense in which we can talk about Jesus being submitted to the father and and that's the way in which the church is historically under understood this. There are some today who are saying, well, it's not just in the economy of salvation, but in the very life of the Trinity. God, as he is in himself, if you will that there is this this hierarchy, there is this authority and submission that takes place even subordination and that raises a lot of red flags in in people's minds. It certainly raises red flags and in my mind because you want when people in the past he think some of the Trinitarian controversies in the early church I went to when they would talk about the subordination of Jesus them that there was there was heresy there that would talk about it as Jesus being less than the father a created being.

No, that's not what people are saying now but but I still think that there is quite a bit of confusion when I think some people are are are not saying that now I'm referring to the people who hold this view, this is internal subordination of the son, so that there saying that there is a subordination, even within the very life of the Trinity than one sense the sun Jesus is eternally subordinate to the father and that just seems the language there seems very unhelpful made it sort of sounds like some of those ancient Trinitarian heresies that that the church addressed long ago and so I'm II think that we need not speak in that way I don't think it's faithful to what the Bible teaches pertaining to the doctrine of the holy Trinity, and the way in which I think we can talk about subordination and that has to do with the economy of salvation with with the father sending his son into the world to take human flesh for us so that we might be redeemed. Just take it that a step back here and say you were talking about the, the Trinity, we have to be so careful of this is that the great mystery of the faith who God is and so we stick to what the Bible says and into what the church has affirmed throughout her history for the last 2000 years ago to places like the apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed and you have these great articulations of the faith once for all delivered to the saints that the doctrine of the holy Trinity, the relationship between the persons of the holy Trinity that we have to stick to that language in and I realize you are there some people that are beginning to criticize as a will.

We don't need that was go to the Bible but but even even during the time of the Protestant Reformation that the Protestant reformers were sticking to the Scriptures who wanted to recover. Faithful Bible teaching. They didn't jettison that the early creeds of the church like the Nicene Creed know that they they actually bolstered them. If you will with with with this biblical teaching. They help people to understand how to censor what you had there was the teaching of the Scriptures and so I think we should be skeptical of people of teachers who want to do away with church history.

Want to sort of redefine all the terms and are stable were just doing it on the basis of of the Bible I think there's a huge problem there because oftentimes it's exactly not really on the basis of Scripture.

And it's not incorporating the wisdom of the Catholic Church that is the universal Christian church throughout throughout all time and so I would. I would just recommend avoiding that that kind of teaching and teachers who hold those views so thank you for your question all the way for them from the UK and for listening to core Christianity great advice.

Thanks for that Israel.

This is core Christianity with Pastor Israel Sanchez. Our phone lines are open right now will be taking calls for the next 15 minutes or so. If you have a question about the Bible or the Christian life, pick up your phone right now. Give us a call 833 the core that's 1-833-843-2673.

And you know if you have some doubts about the Christian faith were open to hearing that as well.

A rules, always willing to engage with folks who may have a different perspective. So give us a call at 833, the court thanks giving coming up just a little over a week away, and beyond that Christmas, and we actually have a brand-new free resource to help you get ready for the Christmas season at the 25 day Christmas devotional called the promised seed on December 1. The devotional starts off with the fall in Genesis 3 and God's promise to put enmity between the seat of the serpent and the seed of the woman through short daily readings.

The devotional traces how God's promise of the seed of the woman would one day come and crush the serpent once and for all and a course in the birth of Jesus, the promised seed has come to fulfill been been fulfilled by this is what Christmas is all about our and our new devotional highlights God's faithfulness in the Bible, and is faithful at faithfulness to us now in times of uncertainty and so get a hold of this resource that's really an excellent devotional put together by our very own Dir. of content can resolve your core, Christianity, and she's done an excellent job to get this free download of our new Christmas devotional just head over to core

You can also call us at 833-843-2673 for help getting out or any one of our offers later. Here's an email that came in from one of our listeners. This is from Millie and she says my son will be turning 18 in a few months.

What advice can you give to parents like me letting their child go while still having some say in their lives. Thank you. Yeah, my oldest is is nine so I would. I would just encourage you, I mean II. I can only imagine. Of course how difficult this this must be, but I would just encourage you to say Lord I'm entrusting my son to you, you know I'm I I've I've prayed for my son. I've sought to teach my son about you, but at the end of the day he's in your head so I would say continuing to pray for your son and and to to commit him to the Lord.

I love you.

Probably if you listen to core Christian, you probably have heard me bring the story up before, but I love that the story of St. Augustine and his mother Monica who prayed for him for years and years and years, and for many years. He wasn't faithful to Jesus. He wasn't walking with the Lord.

But it wasn't until I think it was his early 30s that he P actually came to Christ was converted but he says my mom watered the ground with her prayers for me and and her heart was just torn for so long because you know she wanted him to love the Lord to walk with the Lord, and he was he was making decisions, life choices that were not pleasing to God not honoring to God. And so what you do is you she didn't. You know, try to try to strangle him. She she prayed for him and she continued to cry out to the Lord on his behalf, and that we should be doing for our children and so is is your son gets ready to go. I would just I would just continued it to be committed to praying for him and Bill that I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this one as well.

I think it's a great answer Israel in our our role really does change as our children enter young adulthood and we become really more of a coach, you know, earlier on in life we have to set uniform boundaries with our kids. A lot of our parenting is really instructional but then as they as we release them as they had off into the working world or in the college. We need to take more of a coach mindset where we encourage them and we still you know, give advice, but we need to hold on rather loosely to any no sense of control over them because there are adults now specially you know, given the age of adulthood in our country being 18 which was changed a few years ago, but man it's it's a tough road to hoe. My son is 18 and went off to college in August and and so we are navigating that in our our family ourselves so far so good. Yes, that were still in the were still in India boundaries stage so so ugly but that's that's great advice. Bill thinks you're listening to core Christianity with Pastor Israel Sanchez.

Here's the number of you have a question about the Bible or the Christian life. It's 833.

The core let's go to Michael calling in from Kansas. Michael what your question for atrial bill like. However, Dr. Christian and I asked that I don't have an answer. They always say.

Out they all are what God though I question is if it Christian believes that God has a divine plan and I did know your life before you. You love it, then how is praying for somebody is hell, or somebody is well there was that not questioning God divine plan.

Michael, thank you for that question. So two things. One is wont to say, man. I'm sorry that that's the response that you that you received when you ask questions. I think that's that's unfortunate. One thing I happen to appreciate about the Christian faith and in the people that I've been around at least as is. I've had a lot of questions over my 20 years as a Christian.

Walking with Jesus, difficult questions that I that I've struggled with and thought answers and had people around me who are willing to wrestle through those questions with me and and there are I think really good answers to the questions that people are asking. The problem is, a lot of times we aren't people are Christians aren't willing to dig in to do the research is I think it's it's what I think. There's nothing wrong with asking questions. Frankly, you see that in the Bible itself. I think of the Psalms of lament. For example, where were people are praying in of the psalmist is praying, asking God why why why is my life the way that is why my struggling with things that I'm struggling Reno with white why our circumstances as they are in light of your promises got their art. There a lot of questions that the people of God.

Ask even in Scripture and so I think I think questions are are a good thing in and we should be encouraged. Ask them and then we should search the Scriptures in order to find those answers now praying that you you're totally right in a lot, I believe, according to the Bible that God does know all things and that everything happens according to his his decree you read about this in places like Ephesians chapter 1, the question is, well, well, this does that mean that when I'm praying for something.

Maybe that's health or you know to get a job or something like that in my MI questioning God in my going against his his will will typically the way in which Christians are talked about this is, is it we think of God's will in two ways. One, we have a God is revealed and in his word, his law, ultimately his revealed will. Some people refer to this as his prescriptive will and and it's what God calls us to in Scripture. You also have God's will of decree if you will what God has determined from eternity past that we don't know that we can't, I can't. You can't climb into heaven and and you know look at what God is thinking that having all we know is what God has revealed in his word, and so we pray according to his word. We seek in the a in in light of what he's revealed to us when I pray. Dear God, please sanctify me. I I can pray that prayer confidently because I know that God's will is for me to grow in him to know him more to to be holy and so so it's it's understanding. I think there that the distinction in in how we talk about the the will of God. There's nothing wrong with with praying for things and and even if those prayers don't get answered. The way that we were were hoping that they would be answered in a one of the ways that God is at accomplishing his sovereign purposes in the world today is through the prayers of his people. He doesn't just zap things into existence. Often times I did call the world into existence from nothing, but ordinarily as he oversees the world. This is the doctrine of of Providence. He uses means uses people.

He uses preachers to God and preach the gospel so that other people might hear about you know that the grace of God. He uses Nino mothers to pray for their for their sons so that their hearts might be open to God uses us and he wants to use a seat. He wants to hear our prayers and so we should be encouraged to pray and Mike, let me just also encourage you mail when you have when you have those questions please give us a call we we really want to welcome those questions in an wrestle through some of the difficult questions that are out there do to help people out so God bless and I'm thinking we should send Michael a copy of our book core Christianity just to help him get acquainted with some of the core doctrines of the faith that seems like a those are some great questions could be answered by the book so Michael, if you hang a line will will send that off to you a compliment or a copy of core Christianity by Dr. Michael Horton. This is core Christianity and let's go to Daniel who was calling in from Tracy California Daniel what your question for atrial I'm doing well Daniel how you doing yeah bubble up question what so when people babble like your look like that, you know, like going to eat you boards or like just anything to try to call her and especially paranormal work that we showed where they like some of the spirit, or something of that nature the spirit someone right away you will circumvent you. You will not. It's interesting to show our relationship think you show quick you know real quick. But when we pray to the Holy Spirit old pray to God as you will find the shows that Angel won't go a hard time. It takes time for the you know, even if were lucky to be in this lifetime. Any any drop of the old nature of God or in a peroration in the amount good and the good work.

Instead of or so my question basically why Wayne pray so that you actually show up right away, going pray to God and his angels. We never got any sign or anything of that nature. Well Daniel, sounds like you do know that there are supernatural forces at work in the world. Good forces and and also evil forces in the Bible is very clear about that and that the evil forces that are at work in the world. Satanic demonic forces at work in the world can manifest signs I've heard about things. It sounds like you've heard about things as well.

Whether it's you. You see stuff on TV or you just hear people who are coming out of the occult, witchcraft and and they can tell you they will tell you all yet there's there's something there, something sinister. There is a supernatural power there, but it's not the power of God it something else.

I think of that. The scene that we have in acts chapter 16 it says in verse 16 as is. We are going to the place of prayer.

We were met by a slave girl who had a spirit of divination and brought her owners much gain by fortune-telling the receipt she was able to tell people, for she had this this this insight. This demonic insight because she was possessed by a spirit of divination and is the text continues. Essentially, the apostle Paul of having become greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her, and came out that very hour but it sounds like you're single. How come when we pray to the Lord. How come when we ask the Holy Spirit to manifest his his presence in our lives and in a powerful, why doesn't he just do it well. God is not like a genie in a in a bottle that we can just in a new city. Rub the bottle and God is in a shop and do whatever it is that we want.

Often Jesus even rebuked that the scribes and the Pharisees because they would say you show us a sign newest. I didn't do a trick for us. Jesus and Jesus as you guys are you guys are missing it.

Daniel God has already given us.

He's Artie given you the ultimate sign was in sending his son in the death of his son on the cross and the resurrection of his son from the dead. That's it. That's a historical reality that's that's what God did in and for Frank. That's what Jesus said to the to the Pharisees.

No sign is to be given to them, except that the sign of Jonah right is this idea of being in in the belly of the earth for three days.

He noted that the death of Christ being in the tomb for three days and then his resurrection, but that's the ultimate sign. I think a lot of people even Christians today Daniel are looking for something else. We want God to do something cool to do something powerful to to show up, you show me an angel that kind of a thing and can God extraordinarily do those things does he. Are there instances where where we might have a magnificent experience because of just the grace of the Lord in his providence. Yeah that that can happen, but the main thing God wants from you from us is to fix our eyes on what he's accomplished for our salvation in the gospel in Jesus is to go to the word to search the Scriptures to know him as he's revealed himself to us in his word. Jesus, you know, again, he rebuked that the Pharisees because he said when you search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, and these are the very Scriptures that testify of me. But you're not willing to come to me that you may have life. We go to Jesus so that we might have life, the forgiveness of our sins. Salvation that we might walk with him and grow in holiness. We don't go to Jesus so that he might just give us things and a lot of people have this confused there there searching for some supernatural experience. They want some kind of assigned.if you would just do that this that and the other, then out, then I'll follow you, but God is already revealed himself to us in so many ways that the psalmist said that the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament shows his handiwork Dan today, utter speech, and night unto night reveals his reveals knowledge.

That is to say the world around you. Daniel is a sign of the creator God's power his glory and he doesn't just give you that sign that that he's real he's overall things he sent his son into the world so that our sins might be forgiven.

That's what we need going to go back to the gospel back to the Scriptures and we do that or we see that the spirit of God at work in the world today. God bless. Thanks for listening to core Christianity request your copy of today's special offer. Visit us at core, and click on offers in the menu bar or call us at 1-833-843-2673. That's 833 when you contact us.

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