Vision Week - Part A

When we speak about vision, it shouldn't be what is my vision, what is your vision, what is our vision, but what is God's vision, spelled out in Scripture, overarching principles that God has given us in the community of the Church. A vision for ministry.

We will look back at the great grace that has been enjoyed and look forward to exciting challenges in the future. This requires clarity of vision. You'll want to order our Vision Resource Package for this month, which also includes a full-color magazine about the vision that drives Skip's ministry. You'll also receive an audio copy of Skip clearly outlining his philosophy of ministry in the past, present, and future. Receive your Vision Package when you make a donation of $50 or more to connect with Skip. Give your gift by calling 1-800-922-1888 or online at connectwithskip.com.

That's 1-800-922-1888 or online at connectwithskip.com. Now, let's join Chip Lusko for this conversation with Skip. Well, hello and welcome to Connect with Skip Heitzig. Today on special programs, we kick off Vision Week, and we have Skip Heitzig right here in the studio. Right, and I'm glad to be in the studio. And let me just make clear that Vision Week is not about giving your eyes checked for glasses or contact lenses. It's about something much more profound. Exactly. Hey, welcome to your program, Skip. Thank you.

I'm glad to be here on the Connection. Let's talk about vision. The Bible does say, without a vision, the people perish. Can you give us an overview of that principle?

Sure. You know, the context is not saying, without a clear man-made direction that lets the audience know where they should be going, the people perish. It's specifically a prophetic revelation in that context, but there's a principle in that. And the principle is that when we speak about vision, it shouldn't be, what is my vision, what is your vision, what is our vision, but what is God's vision, spelled out in Scripture, overarching principles that God has given us, and then getting more specific with those principles, what He wants for my life, for our life in the community of the church. So it's really ascertaining God's will, God's vision, God's direction. And from there, we can tweak it and make it our own and kind of edit it for our own particular circumstance, but it should always be, what is God's will?

That's what we're taught to pray. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Let's talk about your philosophy of ministry. When you began the church, your scope of responsibility was relatively narrow, but now, these decades later, it is significantly deeper and wider. The question is this. Has your vision changed for the church over these years?

That's a good question, and I would say, to begin with, no, it hasn't changed. It has been honed, it has been tweaked, it has been refined, it's been clarified, but I sort of began... I knew generally what God had called me to do and how He equipped me, what gifts He had given me. So I knew that whatever organization, church I'm going to be with, it's going to bear the marks based upon that. But, adding to what I don't have, there are people who do have. So we have an organization filled with very capable, competent people that are gifted in so many areas where I am just not gifted. So the vision for me hasn't changed, the vision for what I bring to the table of the church hasn't changed, but it has been expanded, and I revel in the fact that I get to collaborate with other people who have those gifts that I don't have, because all of us can get very narrow in our scope, and it takes somebody else's input to kind of get us out of our little hole and keep our eyes on the horizon, eyes on the prize. So, yes and no.

No it hasn't, but in another way it has been refined. Skip, I know we talk a lot about life change and creating an environment that's conducive for people to really see their life change. How fulfilling is it for you to watch that happen? Yeah, it never gets old. It never gets old to the extent that when I'm on campus, it's one of my favorite places in the world to be. I love it, it's liberating, because I know I get to see visual reminders of the legacy and the history of life change through the years. I remember meeting that person there, the time that family came forward, the time that guy trapped in that sin, and how that changed for him, and there's just so many stories that I have collected in my own psyche that it's a constant stream of refreshment. Or I dedicated the parents and now I'm dedicating their children. That's generational legacy.

It's pretty awesome. So it shows me that the prayers of the saints have worked. We prayed at that service 20-some years ago for that person. Now that person is bringing their child in the same church to get prayers for their future. So it just shows me it's not—in one sense, yeah, it's gratifying for me in a generational legacy. The other thing is, wow, the prayers of God's people really work. Here's the fruit of it.

Anything should inspire us to fruitfulness and further prayer, it's that. It would seem to me, Skip, that young pastors today have more pressure than ever to do a wide variety of things, to meet these different needs. What would you say to a young pastor about forming their vision for their ministry? I would say don't go too wide. Stay narrowly focused.

Find out your gifts, your gift mix. Work within that. Don't try to be somebody you're not. Don't try to put on Saul's armor if you're a David. A David was really good at stones and slings, not good at armor and swords.

He used a sword to cut off Goliath's head, but after he used a sling and a stone to kill him. So find out who God made you, operate in that, then you won't get burned out, then you won't get overwhelmed. I think people get overwhelmed because they're trying to do the work of God and the energy of the flesh. And it's something we were taught by our pastor a lot. That was one of his cardinal principles. And it's a liberating principle. So I would say only look to other people as examples and find in those examples both the good that you want to be and the bad that you don't want to be. I do think there's a lot of pressure for people in the ministry, young men, young women, who are leading groups and running churches.

And so I think, here's the principle. In Acts, there was the temptation to cater to a group of people that were complaining because they didn't get the fair distribution of the church in the book of Acts. So the elders said, you find men to do that besides us. We're going to give ourselves to prayer in the ministry of the word. I would tell any young man who's going into ministry, put your rear end in the chair, open your Bible, hear from God. What you have to say as God speaks it to you from the pulpit, Sunday, Saturday, Wednesday night, however you do your services, is far more important than you trying to do the work that everybody demands that you do. Have a clear word from the Lord when you get in the pulpit. I saw a new book recently coming out in the near future, Skip, about de-churching. And that's a relatively new word.

We heard deconstruction and all of that. But what would you say to an individual, a leader, who has otherwise lost their clarity, their vision, passion, and zeal for walking and for leading in the Lord? The only thing Jesus said he would come to build and to bless is his church. And Paul said the church is the pillar and ground of all the truth. What a statement.

What a comprehensive statement. The pillar and the ground of all the truth. So if that's what Jesus came to build, and that's what Paul said is the pillar and ground of the truth, you know, sort of the milestone by which we measure all other values and systems, how on earth could you de-church something or deconstruct that?

You're fighting against the very thing Jesus said he came to build. One of the things I appreciate about you is that you are intensely curious. And that keeps you edgy, and it keeps you on the mark of growth, doesn't it? That's a nice way of saying I have ADD.

That's a nice way of saying you're interested in a lot of things. But would you say that you're always learning something new about ministry even though you are a veteran? And what have you learned over the difficult years we went through as a church? It has reinforced to me not to put your trust in men, in institutions, in governments, in organizations, be they governmental or health organizations.

I mean, there were so many conflicting reports. It also clarified for me the need of the body of Christ to come together. Listen, in history, the church has gotten together even if it costs them their lives.

So we were worried about a virus. People would get together when they actually were threatened by machine guns or machetes, and they still do in cultures. So we went along with some of what we were told to do. But there comes a point where when you start saying strip clubs or bars or liquor stores are essential, along with actors guilds in Hollywood and movie sets, but the church isn't, then you've crossed a line that defies what Jesus said is important and vital and what he came to build. So I learned that clearly during the last episode. And it gave me strength to know what to do when that comes around again. Because it will come around to you in a different costume. The church has to continue as it is, it has to grow, and it cannot be allowed to be deemed non-essential.

Correct. And we have to realize it is nothing new, and you're right, it will happen again. Because truth, which is really what we're talking about, not just the church, truth is always assaulted in every generation. Interesting, because we have The Vision magazine for 2023 and 24 from Calvary. What are your thoughts as you see how God has fulfilled the vision that was cast early on but continues to move forward? Yeah, what I love is how our team has looked at our history, where we've come from, where we are today, and they've codified truly what is important, what we deem as a value system or a culture as we call it in our church. We have culture axioms. The idea that the church is not just a place where people come to get fed, though I know people hearing this broadcast tune into it, they may or may not come to this church in Albuquerque, they may hear it, and chances are most of them will in a number of places outside of our local area in the United States around the world.

But it shows what this vision is all about this year. It's the New Testament idea that we're part of a community, that we're a textual community, where it's around the teaching of the Scripture, but nonetheless we have to share that with other people. So even if people around the world are using this to supplement their growth, they need to be plugged in, whether it's a watch party, watching our services online, or they go to a local church, but they need to be plugged in and share their gifts with other people, or they're just not going to be all that God wanted them to be. The church was always a group of people. Acts 2.42, that was done together, not alone, right? They gave themselves the Apostles' Doctrine, not just private Bible study, listening to the Apostles' exposition in concert with other believers, fellowship, that demands you have people around you, breaking of bread, you have to have people to break it with, that's the communion table, and the love feast, and prayer. So all of those things are exercises in the context of that chapter, always done with other people.

There are so many one anothers in the Scripture, love one another, serve one another, you have to have people to do that with. So, let's circle back to your philosophy of ministry. My observation is that very little has changed. But what has changed?

What have you adjusted to as the years have gone by? Well, technology has changed, delivery systems have changed, platforms have changed, the way we get the word out has changed. It's no longer print or giving flyers out, it's delivering things on social media, on the internet. And that's just, it's a portal, it's open doors to reach people who couldn't be reached. You know, YouTube, and all of the things that are available today, all of the things that could be used and are used by the enemy for evil, God in this case is redeemed and is using for good, His good. As we said, we've just completed a long-term, in-depth study of prophecy about the last days. What do you think the earth looks like from heaven's standpoint in terms of prophecy?

Well, that's a good question, and it's a question you and I brought up yesterday, you brought it up to me. From heaven, of course, you could say, well, God looks at it and His heart is broken, of course, but He knew all along what was going to happen. He predicted before we were born what was going to happen, so it doesn't take Him by shock or surprise. In fact, you would say, we could say and do say that the earth and the days we live in are marching in perfect schedule according to God's sovereign plan. History is going somewhere, and that somewhere is eventually an eternal state preceded by a millennial kingdom, preceded by upheaval on the earth, preceded by signs that lead to that. So it's exciting to live in the day in which we live and to realize that God is just giving us the cues, we're seeing that things line up around us, being fulfilled in our midst. So, yeah, from heaven you could say God is disappointed. On the other hand, God knows that we're but dust, so He's not shocked, He's not surprised, and He's moving history toward His direction. The title of your series is The End is Near? Right. And we've seen just some fantastic response to this series, both locally, nationally, and internationally. And do you think the Church needs a booster shot of prophetic insight?

I do, and here's why. So much of the Bible is prophecy. You could even argue when we talk about the kingdom age, the coming kingdom of Christ on earth, the millennium, you know, the second coming of Christ that leads to the kingdom, that that is the mega theme of Scripture. Next to faith, the second coming leading into the kingdom is the most discussed topic. And if there's so much stuff in the Bible about the coming kingdom prophetically, why are pulpits silent about what the Bible is shouting over and over and over again?

Why on earth would we be quiet about that? And the Bible is preoccupied, preoccupied with prophetic Scripture. So the Church isn't, and it's time that we are.

That's a great term, preoccupied. And to my observation, and I don't pretend to hear everybody speaking every Sunday, but that the second coming, the rapture, things of the kingdom, and even Israel, are talked about not as much by the young men as they are about the old school guys. But I think there's a poverty of it in the new generation of teachers. Do you agree?

I do too. I think the pulpit is weak. I think that we're afraid to go deep.

I think people start ministries thinking they have to be cool and relevant and wear tight jeans and cool-looking shirts and have smoke and all the stuff that attracts a crowd, but that the pulpit should just sort of be fun and feel good and not go too deep because people won't understand it. My goodness, by the time I was in high school, I was studying physics. I was studying advanced math in high school. So why do we think that we can't give people from junior high on the depth of Scripture? I mean, why do we carry the book around in the first place if we don't really find out what it says? And how has this study impacted your view of current events?

Man, it has impacted. Just studying this week on the kingdom, I have so many books on this and I've read so many this week, and just the plethora of detail. For instance, I'm studying this week on the thousand-year reign of Christ. Revelation 20 is sandwiched between, obviously, chapter 19 and chapter 21. If you just follow a chronology of the book of Revelation, you have the second coming in chapter 19, you have the new heaven and new earth in chapter 21, and you have a thousand years of the nations on earth in chapter 20.

That's the millennial kingdom. Now, granted, chapter 20 is just a very slim outline, just stating the length of time six times, thousand years, thousand years, thousand years, six times. So it's unmistakable, the length of time.

And just a few salient features, and so it doesn't go into much detail. But what I discovered is the reason it doesn't go into much detail, where it does previously, it tells us a lot of detail about the tribulation, the book of Revelation does, but hardly any detail about the millennium, is because all of the Scriptures in the Old Testament are filled with it. It's already understood. It was the hope of the Jew that the Messiah is going to come and rule and reign over the earth, there's going to be longevity on the earth, there's going to be a lush atmosphere on the earth. They all believed those things, longed for those things.

There's no need to take all the hundreds and hundreds of Scriptures in the Old Testament and slam them into one chapter. It was understood. It was already anticipated for. It just gives us the basic outline. You can go back and hang the supplemental material on that outline, and you have unmistakably the millennial kingdom. Well, just going through that again, it was so apparent to me this time. And it's like, wow, that's awesome. And so I've been just sort of sifting through the details of that. And as you know, I take the Bible literally, I don't spiritualize it, and there's just no way to have a literal, grammatical, historical view of the Bible without not just seeing the millennial kingdom, but getting really jazzed about what it's going to be like on this earth.

And it has to be. If it doesn't happen, what I discovered is that then we could look at God and say, you're a liar, because you made promise after promise after promise throughout the Old Testament. If you don't fulfill them, or if you say, well, that just applies to the church spiritually, well, then everybody all along has been mistaken, and that makes God to be a liar.

Skip, I know you'll agree with this. The critical keyword is Israel, and you're an intense student of Israel. How big a mistake is it for pulpists to neglect the teaching about Israel's place in prophecy? It's so detrimental that it borders on anti-Semitism.

Let me explain that, because I could be taken out of context. The church in Europe during World War II was an amillennial theological stance. Israel was marginalized. They didn't care. The Jews rejected Christ. Christ rejected them. Of course, Paul would beg to differ. Has he neglected Israel?

God forbid. So if you look at the roots of what happened with Hitler and Nazi Germany, you find a theological predisposition toward that, an anti-Semitism borne by that theological stance. So Israel is important, and it features as primary in God's calendar. Seventy weeks, the angel said to Daniel, seventy weeks are determined for your people, that's the Jewish people, and your holy city, that's the city of Jerusalem. So God's prophetic timetable hinges on Israel. That's how he tells time.

He has a Jewish calendar. Skip, this has been great and very interesting for me and I'm sure our audience as well. I want to drive them and let them know about the website, connectwithskip.com, and look for the series, The End is Near?

It's fantastic, it's deep, it's wide, it's really good. This has been the first day of Vision Week with Skip Heisling, Chip Lusko, in studio, back tomorrow with Lenya Heisling, and join us as we continue Vision Week right here on Connect with Skip Heisling. You've been listening to a conversation with Skip Heisling as part of our Vision Week. Join us next time when Chip will sit down with Lenya Heisling to discuss her recent trip to the Ukraine, plans for Reload Love, and the growth of Sheology Women's Ministry.

Now listen to this resource offer. Listen to what the message version of the Bible says about the necessity of a clear vision for the future. If people can't see what God is doing, they stumble all over themselves.

But when they attend to what he reveals, they are most blessed. Vision for your life. That's the theme of our resource package that features five excellent full-length messages by Skip, including Six Things That Will Surprise You About Heaven and God's Purpose for People. Now, here's a comment from Skip Heisling on the topic of purpose.

God has a desire. God has a purpose for you, and one of his purposes for you is that you know him, that he walk with you, that you do life together with him. Do you walk with God?

Is that a concern of yours? Is that a stated goal in your head, in your heart? I want to walk with God. I want to live to please God.

I want to know God. Clear vision for your life. That's the theme of our vision resource package that features five excellent full-length messages by Skip, including Six Things That Will Surprise You About Heaven and God's Purpose for People. You'll want to order our vision resource package for this month, which also features a full-color magazine about the vision that drives Skip's ministry. You'll also receive an audio copy of Skip clearly outlining his philosophy of ministry in the past, present, and future. Receive your vision package when you make a donation of $50 or more to Connect with Skip. Give your gift by calling 1-800-922-1888 or online at connectwithskip.com.

That's 1-800-922-1888 or connectwithskip.com. Join us next time when Chip will sit down with Lenya Heitzing to discuss her recent trip to the Ukraine, plans for Reload Love, and the growth of Sheology Women's Ministry. In our DNA, we're high risk for the gospel, and with great risk comes great reward. And honestly, I think we're indestructible until God's done with us.

And so why not? You know, go into all the world, and I'll let God worry about if I make it to the bunker or where I'm supposed to be when. And look, we're still going.

We're in our 60s. Make a connection, make a connection at the foot of the cross and cast all burdens on His word. Make a connection, connection. Connect with Skip Hyten is a presentation of Connection Communications, connecting you to God's never-changing truth in ever-changing times.