Skip Heitzig Interviews Cissie Graham Lynch, Vince Torres, and Lenya Heitzig - Part B

What are the biggest areas of compromise that you see going on among Christians? I think one of the greatest compromises is that as a church, as a whole, that we're fearing man more than we fear God. And meaning is like what is the fear of God is that we take him seriously, that he is a holy God, and that he loves us to know the characteristics. Like I said, that you have to know God so you can stand in strength and take action on that day that God caused you to take action.

There are many gray areas and even blatant lies we encounter in our culture. How do we deal with them biblically? Today on Connect with Skip Heitzeck, Skip continues his interview with his wife, Lenya, podcast host Sissy Graham Lynch, and Vince Torres, president of Family Policy Alliance of New Mexico. Today they share how you can remain planted in the foundational truths of scripture in our shifting culture. Before we begin, we want to let you know about a resource that encourages dads to turn the tide in our culture by standing for Jesus in their homes and communities. Your gift to this teaching program has helped us grow and we want to do more in 2023.

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Call 1-800-922-1888 or go to connectwithskip.com to get your copy of Where's dad. Okay, let's join Skip Heitzig for today's program. So, Sissy, we know the Taliban doesn't like Christians. We know the world doesn't like us, but what do you do when the opposition doesn't come from the Taliban or from the secular media, but it comes from the church? I think in the last couple years we've seen a big division inside the church, especially in this last year since COVID and that ugly word of politics has just like rooted itself inside.

I say politics, I don't think it's an ugly word, but others think. But division is nothing new to the church. We've seen division in the church since the beginning of the church, divisions on theology and doctrine. But right now, I think we see the church that is biblically illiterate. So when they see a bad idea coming or a bad idea arises in the church, they don't know how to discern it because they don't know the word of God. And these are well-intended people, but bad ideas are rising in the church, whether it's a love wins slogan, and it sounds right on the outside. And we as a church, we don't want to be canceled cultured.

We don't want to see as bigots. So we kind of adopt that idea as the world has given it to us. But to know God's word, and I've mentioned earlier a Bible verse that I've clung to in the last 18 months is Daniel chapter 11, that those who know their God will be able to stand in strength and take action. And y'all are so fortunate to have a church and a pastor that elevates God's word. And he teaches from God's word and he wants you to know God's word. So when that day comes that you can stand in strength and take action, even inside with your church, with your family, and with your friends that you can discern that you would have God's word to turn to, not your own opinions, but God's word. That's so good. The Bible verse that you just quoted in the translation I'm familiar with, the New King James says, they that know their God will do great exploits. And I love that.

You have all done great exploits. Vince, you attended Liberty University. Sissy, you attended Liberty University. Meredith or Singer attended Liberty University. It's a little reunion up here.

It's like a reunion. It's a great school. So many great students have come from there.

Vince, when you went there, you studied political science and business. How important is a Christian education in this country? I think Christian education is more important than ever, in my personal opinion. And I don't say that as someone who is against public education. I am a product of public education for most of my life right here in New Mexico.

Up until the pandemic, my little girl was enrolled in a public elementary school in Santa Fe. And so I am not by any means anti-public education, but what I am concerned is about the direction of our public schools here in New Mexico and across the country. You cannot get on social media or get online these days without learning more and more stories of inappropriate curriculums and theories that are being introduced and forced upon our children. And I think we need to recognize as parents how much time these individuals, how much time the state and these teachers have with our students.

In fact, there was a Project Veritas video that was recently released, a high school teacher in Sacramento bragging about the fact that in his mind he had 180 days to turn his students into Antifa revolutionaries. And that's just some of what's happening out there. I have been, I've been able to see and look at and review content in other states like California where kindergartners as young as four and five years old are being taught to question their gender. They're being taught to question their sexuality. You have middle school students being exposed to pornographic material in the form of sex education, encouraging promiscuity and experimentation. All of these things are happening now. And I think as parents, if there was never a time where we have to say enough is enough, I'm taking back control of my kids' education.

That time is right now. We have to step up. And scripturally speaking, we are the ones who are primarily responsible for the education of our children. It's not the state.

And I realize that for many families, maybe a private Christian education or even homeschool may not be feasible. That's okay. Again, one of the most encouraging things that I'm seeing on social media lately are these parents who are showing up at their school board meetings and throwing some of this garbage back in the face of the school board members and saying enough is enough.

We're not going to go along with this anymore. Do you know who the candidates are? Do you know where they stand on these issues?

Get to know them and then show up and don't be afraid to be your child's most prolific and vocal lobbyist when it comes to their education. Go ahead. What's really vexing is a lot of our battle is a battle of semantics, where you will see the secular world take a word that we know scripturally and then bastardize it, if you will. So when they say love wins, what love are they referring to?

Thank you, honey. Like what is your definition of love? And God's definition of love is not the world's definition of love. So love outside, sex outside the bound of marriage is not love. Adultery is not love. Homosexuality is not love. So when I got involved politically, it was when SB91 and 91 wanted to amend the state's constitution to add sexual orientation to sex, gender, religion, that that should be a protected people. And I just don't agree with that definition. And so speaking the truth in love is sometimes holding on to the truth or saying, look, I didn't start this fight. You're the one that's wanting to redefine terms.

You're the one that wants to redefine the constitution or our documents. And there comes a time, you know, Christian, we can play offense or defense. Now is the time we could be playing offense. We may end up having to play defense, you know, because so many things are being trotted upon by the left. And so get involved, get informed, and do what you can now because now is the time to fight some of these battles.

Yes. I just want to encourage you, as Vince is talking about, as parents, you know, it's our primary responsibility is the spiritual development of our children. But I also want to encourage grandparents to get involved and to help help parents like us raising, I got two young children, grandparents, your job's not done yet. And to encourage that because we live in a culture where a lot of moms are working, they're busy, they're exhausted, and we have to be diligent with the spiritual formation of our children because the world is coming after them. We are in a spiritual battle for the hearts and souls of our children. They're coming after them like no other. But I want to encourage you, unless you're an aunt and uncle, be involved in your nieces and nephews life, um, where God has called you, help them in that spiritual development, come alongside the parents and help them be diligent.

Yeah. You told me a story about you, you have, all of us have our Bibles up here, but you have this particularly large Bible. Really too big to travel with, I say I'm more holy. You traveled with that, but you're more spiritual than we are because you have a bigger Bible. And, um, you, uh, you point that out to your children.

You'd have this, tell, tell, tell us what they said. Um, I, you know, I, well, I always saw my mom's Bible open up every single morning when I went down. And as a family, we read out of scripture every night when my dad was home as a family.

And so I get up super early, way earlier than my children do. I try, you know, I can't say I do it every morning, but I try on a good, I open up and I leave my Bible open, even before they wake up. Cause I want my children to see God's word open in our household. And so when my little son comes down the steps and he gets on my lap, I have the Bible and I say, Austin, what is this? And he says, God's holy word. And I said, and what is that? And he says, it's truth mama. And you know, he doesn't understand that quite yet, but I want to plant those seeds in it now because we are truly fighting for the hearts and souls of this generation. Yes, we are fighting in the book of Jude.

It says, contend earnestly for the faith, better translation, put up a good fight for the faith once for all delivered to the saints. And you guys are doing that events. Let me just piggyback on something you said about education, speak to teachers. We have public school teachers. They're doing a great job. God, put them in this position. It's not easy in that system that they're in.

What can they do? Yeah. I want to thank all of our, all of our teachers, including our public school teachers, our homeschool teachers right now, our private education teachers. You have such an important role. I can still think back on the impact that my teachers had on me.

In fact, the principal of your elementary school was my high school principal, Bernadette Shanneberger. And if she could keep me in line, I expect her to do great things with your elementary school. So thank you for what you all are doing, but I would encourage you, you know, now is the time to take a stand for the word.

Now is the time to take a stand for what is true. And I think that one of the things that we've seen more and more is teachers feeling like they have way too much flexibility on the one hand to proselytize based on a particular ideology or worldview. And on the other hand, we have Christian teachers of faith who are being told they need to do the same thing. And I would just encourage you that that's not your responsibility. And one of the encouraging messages I always like to give to teachers is the weight of the education of our children is not primarily your responsibility.

It's mine as a father, it's my wife's as a mother. And I think the best teachers are those who recognize that education, be it public or private, is an opportunity to partner with parents in the raising of their children, not to replace it, but to partner with parents. And some of that parents is a call to you, again, to be involved. I know we like to think that when we drop them off at school, now they're their problem.

That is as far from a biblical understanding of what we should be doing as parents. And so while I encourage you teachers to keep up the good work, to push back and to not go along with what is being forced upon you in many cases, I also want to call on you parents to get involved and to support your teachers to let them know that you stand with them and you have their back. Lenya, what do you say to people who know that something needs to be done, they want to do something, but they don't know what to do. What's the next step? I like to say, pray that God will open your eyes.

So you're saying they do know it. So you have seen something, whatever the situation is. And then the next thing is God, what can I do? And so that's kind of what I did when I saw Isis in 2014, God, what can I do? And he gave me an unusual plan, but, and then I kept saying yes to God. I would look for the next thing, look for the next thing.

And I kept saying yes. And look in James, it says pure and undefiled religion is this that you care for orphans and widows. So when I'm looking at Isis and orphan and widows, and I pray, gee, Lord, can I help the orphans and widows? He's probably going to say yes to that prayer. And there's so many things that if you know, the word is sissy has said, and you see a situation and you ask him to bring a biblical solution, you're more than likely going to be in a yes case scenario, not the best case scenario, although it is with the word at your back. So just do the next thing he shows you to do. And it can be so simple. I mean, I'm the kind of person, if I see someone in line who can't pay for their groceries, I just pray and I go, you know, Lord, let me pray for those groceries.

If I see someone crying, I will stop and say, can I pray for you? And so be engaged, do something, you know. But, but what do you do when you face an obstacle? And I'm asking you, no, I didn't ask that yet. So you answered it right.

This is a follow-up question. You passed. Good job.

So, so yes, you got an A so far on the test, but the follow-up question, what about when you face an obstacle? And I'm asking you that in particular, because you're not good at taking no for an answer, right? You want to work that to a yes. Yes.

You know my terminology. I always work my no to a yes. People want to get involved, but then there's obstacles.

So, um, well, I do pray and I look for another way. Sissy, you have a podcast called fearless and I think it's sponsored by the Billy Graham evangelistic association. It's a very, it's a good podcast. I've listened to it a few times.

It's very well received. It's popular, but here's the full title, fearless faith in a compromising culture. So the question for you is, what are the biggest areas of compromise that you see going on among Christians? I think one of the greatest compromises is that as a church, as a whole, that we're fearing man more than we fear God. And meaning is like, what is the fear of God is that we take him seriously, that he is a holy God and that he loves us to know the characteristics. Like I said, that you have to know God so you can stand in strength and take action on that day that God caused you to take action when you're facing this giant or you're facing this obstacle.

And you pray that the Holy Spirit shows you the Holy Spirit is going to take you back to God's word so that you can take that action. So I see the compromise is that we're fearing the church. We're fearing this council culture. We as a church don't want to be labeled a bigot or hateful.

So with good intentions, we're kind of compromising. And with that, comes the biblical literacy. We don't know God's word to stand in strength, but I think a few of the things we're seeing in compromising is progressive Christianity.

I think it's one of the most dangerous things we're seeing inside the church. And I used to think progressive Christianity was just maybe a kind of a young hip church that maybe they talk a lot about grace and maybe not a whole lot of truth, but maybe good intentions and good church. No, progressive Christianity has a whole different theology and they are aggressive and they are there to deconstruct your faith. Their theology is they don't believe this is the authoritative word of God. Yeah.

Explain deconstruct a little bit more. I mean, these are churches. I know friends that went to Liberty with me that pastors, kids that with wonderful, godly parents that grew up in a church for 20 something years. And in three months go to a progressive church and everything they knew they've walked away from because they there are to question is Jesus the son of God? Is this the authoritative word of God? They don't believe those things.

And we used to think it was like far out, but it's right here. They're coming. That's how Satan works, right? He's coming inside the church and dividing from within and they are redefining terms. And so with progressive Christianity, they are acceptance of things like love wins, right? Because it sounds right. They want, you can have your cake and eat it too with progressive Christianity. What do they mean by love wins? Because it sounds so good.

Yeah. And they think you can have your cake and eat it too, right? If they do believe homosexuality can be holy before God. And we see that with Christian leaders saying that on social media. And once again, you go back to what does God's word say about these issues. And let me tell you, you can do it with grace and you can do it with truth because Jesus Christ was a hundred percent grace. He was a hundred percent truth. We all know we all love somebody that's a part of the LGBT community, whether it's a family member or a friend, but we just don't accept it because what is it?

We love them. We want them to know the truth that how they can be redeemed, that there's a way for them to heaven, that Jesus Christ loves them. But they've also redefined terms like a social justice versus a biblical justice, right? And like Linya said, they're redefining the terms as the world would define these terms about a social justice. And we know due to Psalms that the foundation of God's throne is justice and righteousness. And we don't need to as a church go by the definitions of the world. That's a quick overview of that.

That's a good answer. The other thing they do is they spin things around. So they will call certain items spiritual abuse. So I've seen people say they came to a seminar on purity and they were talking about purity and that that was spiritual abuse to make me feel like, Oh my gosh, you were all victim.

Yes. And so it's really spinning and saying that, you know, if you believe the 10 commandments, it's spiritual abuse, you know, and so, um, it's really crafty, tricky stuff. It's very dangerous. And I would just be preparing for your children. They're going off to college to be careful, be prayerful.

There's great books, Alicia Childers. It's called another gospel because that's where they're preaching a different gospel, um, to be active with their kids lives on that issue. It's dangerous.

Vince, I want to turn toward you for a moment. I want you to look ahead and describe some of the battles that as Christians, we should be aware of that are coming our way. I think over the past 18 months, we've, we've really seen a push against religious freedom, religious liberty. We've experienced some of that here in New Mexico and across the country. I do want to, you know, just take a moment to acknowledge that we have had some significant victories at the U S Supreme court, reaffirming our first amendment rights to worship the Lord, as we would see fit. And that's something to be very, very thankful for.

It wasn't necessarily expected. Um, but as I look forward to what is happening, not only here in our state and our nation, I think parental rights is going to be a huge thing moving forward. We're seeing more and more cases of the government coming in and not only interfering with the rights of parents, but we're in some cases seeing those rights completely stripped away, especially in the areas of, of education and healthcare and something for us to be aware of. I also believe that on the abortion issue, which is the reason that I have stayed engaged in New Mexico politics for so long.

That's my number one issue. Call me a litmus test voter. Call me a one issue voter. Uh, the termination of 62 million lives over the five past five decades in our country, I believe is one of the biggest atrocities in our history. And I think it's up to us as, as the people of God to continue to speak the truth and love, which means being honest with women and young men who are facing unplanned pregnancies, um, to come alongside them, to serve them, to love them, to let them know that there is another way we can do that by supporting great organizations like care net who I've worked with in the past. Um, but the abortion issue, I really feel is, is just really getting started right now. We live in a state where it is currently legal to have an abortion through all nine months of pregnancy, right up to the moment of birth. If you have a minor daughter, moms and dads, they can be taken to an abortion clinic by someone other than you and receive an abortion without your knowledge, without your consent. That's the state that we live in.

And we're already seeing droves of women coming over from Texas, uh, to take advantage of our, our lax laws. And the governor prioritized the removal of the abortion statute this last session and pushed it through the legislature and signed it into law. I would encourage you get to know who the candidates are and get to know where they stand on that critical issue of life. And then please, please, please vote pro life, vote pro life, please vote pro life. Vince, how do you answer those who say you're really not pro life? You're just pro birth. You just, you just care about the birth of that child.

You don't care about what happens afterwards. Yeah, I get that a lot. And in fact, Nate and I were talking in between services and Nate brought up such a great point. He said, you know, when we try to have that type of argument in any other situation, we get accused of, of gaslighting, right? We're told, no, you can't bring that up. You're deflecting from the primary issue. And I think that's a great example of gaslighting, but not only as a gaslighting, it's just not true.

It is not true. We know that statistically Christians both adopt and foster kids at about twice the rate of non-believers. We know that we are the most generous people versus non-believers. When it comes to giving, we support great organizations like Care Net and Project Defending Life.

Many churches have ministries that are completely devoted to coming alongside young families who are facing unplanned pregnancies. So it's just, it's not a, it's not a true statement, but even on its face value, I will say this. I, I don't believe that on a moral issue like abortion, that you have to be involved in every aspect of it to come down and make a moral statement that killing babies is wrong. We don't allow that in any other, in any other type of situation. So when it comes to trafficking and these other issues, we don't say, well, you can't oppose human trafficking because you're not actually out there rescuing these girls and housing them and providing for them. No, it's perfectly acceptable just to say, I think human trafficking is a horrible thing.

And I think it needs to go away. The same is true with abortion. And as much as I would encourage you church to be involved in, to be the hands and feet of Jesus in this issue, there is nothing wrong. Do not be ashamed. Do not apologizing for taking the firm position based on scripture that life begins a conception that every life is precious because it is created in the image of God.

Abortion is wrong. Here, here. Amen. Can I come back to my question just before you go to prayer?

Go ahead. Obstacles are opportunities. And so there may be all these obstacles that we are facing, whether it's abortion laws, but we can go against them. We can pray against them. It's why we're hunting giants, right? When David saw Goliath, he went after him and he came in the name of the Lord. And I think we can go after some of these bad policies, bad laws, and it's a chance for us to try and take them down, whether it's through our votes, through going up to the Capitol, testifying, put your congressmen and senators on speed dial, call them, complain, send letters.

I mean, it's just a chance for us to try and see the Lord and righteousness prevail in our land. That's good. Thank you.

That wraps up Skip Heitzig's special interview from the series Hunting Giants. Now here's Skip to tell you about how you can keep encouraging messages like this coming your way as you help connect others to God's truths. It's easy to become wrapped up in ourselves or caught up with the world's ways, but we're called to a higher purpose. And we strive to encourage you in whatever the Lord may be calling you to. That's why we share these affirming Bible teachings to push you on in your pursuit of the Lord. And you can help encourage many others in living out God's calling on their lives. Your gift today means more people can connect with God's truths and that these messages will keep coming to you. Here's how you can give now. There are always more faith less people than there are faithful people.

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