What's going on guys? Hope you're having a great Tuesday and thank you so much for listening to the Clearview Today Show. I want to let you know that today's episode is brought to you by Mighty Muscadine, king of the super fruits. Mighty Muscadine offers a variety of products from their signature Muscadine grape juice to powerful dietary supplements.
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John Galantis. You can find us online at clearviewtodayshow.com, or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at clearviewtodayshow.com. That's right. You guys can help us keep the conversation moving forward by supporting the show. You can share it online with your friends and your family. Leave us a good five star review on iTunes or Spotify, anywhere you get your podcasting content from.
Link is in the description below. And we are here, I think, for one last episode, one last huzzah, huzzah, huzzah, say it. Huzzah, huzzah for Jan Ara.
We are here at NRB. You know who Jan Ara is, right? I do not know who that is. This is Element Lad from DC Comics. It's a deep poll.
It's a deep poll. I'm impressed. So you know that, and I don't know his actual name. I've been reading some DC lately.
Also, I think he was in The Big Bang Theory. I'm very impressed. We are here at NRB 2025 live on the expo floor in Dallas, Texas. Good old Dallas, Texas. I'm going to miss Texas.
Yes. There's something special about it. I mean, we talked about this on an earlier episode, but like you walk into a restaurant, you walk into pretty much any building here and you immediately know you're in Texas. There's a lot of Texan bride.
They are going to brand their state. I've been eating burgers the size of my own head. I'm going to miss that.
I can't go back to McDonald's after this. Our verse of the day today is coming to us from Colossians chapter three, verse four. When Christ, who is our life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. That's our hope, right? That's the hope. That's our future. And it's not just our hope like I really hope this happens. That is our guaranteed future. If you're a Christian, if you are in Christ today, the Bible says that you will appear with him in glory. This resurrected body of yours or this sinful body of yours is going to be resurrected in glory. That's a great, great hope for us.
That's right. And the promise of looking ahead to eternity changes the way that we live here now. It changes the burden that we have for people around us. It changes the burden that we have for our culture. You know, we're gonna hear from somebody on the episode today who has a burden, has a heart to see culture shift and not just shift for the sake of moving, shift back toward the truth of the gospel.
That's right. Our culture is in danger. I don't know if you believe that, but the way of living, the Judeo Christian values that make America what it is, it's in grave danger. Now we've got some good days ahead of us, don't get me wrong, but the pendulum is always going to swing. We're going to hear from that for a special guest today. Have you ever heard of Turning Point USA? Once or twice. Have you ever heard of Charlie Kirk?
Once or twice. Yeah. Vaguely familiar. Well, he's not an NRB, but we do have the next best thing is a guy named Sloan Adams. Sloan is a good friend. We actually met him when we were doing the Bill Fetter interview. Great, great guy.
We sat down and we talked. Dr. Shaw said, we got to get this guy on the podcast. I think Dr. Shaw is actually with him somewhere right now. We're getting ready for the show, but listen, we're going to take a quick commercial break.
We're going to come back with Dr. Shawn Sloan and we'll see you there. That's right. Hey, Clearview Today listeners. Every day we invite you to join us in these conversations and explore the never-ending truth of God's word. And if you've been following the show for a while, if you feel like it's blessed you and you believe in the mission we're on, we invite you to partner with us through your financial support.
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That's right. We appreciate every single one of you. Now let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028.
That's right, Dr. Shaw. We're here live again at NRB, still day two, still going strong. Is it day two really? It's still day two, man. We are trucking along. Day two subset 45. It's like every single interview we do, every single show we do, it's like, surely we're getting to the end of day two, one after the next.
That's the magic of NRB though. That's the energy that we're bringing here to the expo floor. I never thought for a second we'd be doing shows here on the expo floor.
Meeting people, learning from people, and then collaborating. I mean, today's episode is this, I'm looking forward to this one. Yes, absolutely. This is another one of those unexpected ones, right? Because we were doing an interview, you might've seen yesterday's interview with Bill Federer that we were doing. And then Sloan Adams, first before we say anything else, you've got one of the coolest names I've ever heard. That's a great name. So just from talking, we found out we're all kind of Marvel fans here, right? And I said, you know, I understand why you're a Marvel fan because Sloan Adams is the most superhero name I've ever heard.
I don't know what your superhero name would be, but like you've got your Frank Castle's, you've got your Matt Murdock's, you've got your Sloan Adams. It just works. Yes. I appreciate you saying that. Just so you know, I did not have much choice in the matter on my name.
So if you ever did, you would have picked this one. Look, that's destiny. That's that's fate. That's how, you know, it's just meant to be.
That's it. Well, welcome to the show. We're excited to have you on today's episode. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what it is that you do.
Yeah. So I am the central senior strategic director for TPUSA Faith. I have the privilege of serving with Pastor Lucas Miles, who was our senior director at TPUSA Faith. And we obviously work with and alongside our president and founder, Charlie Kirk, founder of Turning Point USA. And we're just so honored.
We work with churches and we're trying to awaken the church to be engaged in what's happening in culture and in government and really take a leading role in seeing God and morality be restored to our country. Wow. Wow. We love Charlie. Oh, yes. Just about. I think we've all been fans of Charlie Kirk for a while, but I have to tell you, I gained a new respect for him just in the past couple of months when he did the Jubilee, when he did the Jubilee conversation where he was sorry.
If you don't know, Jubilee is a Jubilee media. They do these really cool videos and it was Charlie Kirk surrounded by twenty five liberals who were very hostile towards him and his convictions. And man, he took them every single one on it. He did.
I gained a lot of respect for him after that. Yeah, I think we've talked about this a little bit already, but I think one of the things that you find when you're dealing with with leftists, when you're dealing with liberals, is there's no there, they're their best tactic is, is fear and intimidation. Yes. Because their entire framework is based on emotion. Yeah. And they intimidate you by coming at you loudly, boldly, proudly, with the goal being to shut you down before you ever get started.
But if you can weather the storm of that initial barrage of emotion and actually start talking about substance, then what you find is that there's nothing there. Yeah. That their faith is built on, that there and it really is a faith.
It really is a religion. Right. And so once you get beyond that and you find that there's no foundation, you discover exactly what Jesus was talking about in chapter seven, where he said that the man that does not build his life upon my words is like a man that built the foolish man that builds his house upon the sand. That's right. Well, the leftists and the, and the liberals have built their entire framework, their entire life around a foundation that is as weak and ineffectual as sand. And so if you can just get through that initial barrage, like I mentioned, man, you can, you may or may not have a conversation because they might just get up and walk away.
It's pretty common. But if you can have a conversation, you actually have the ability to lead them into a place where truth is brought to bear on their beliefs. You said a lot of things that I really agree with. And I think one, Dr. Shah, you can comment on this as well, that you said it really is a religion. It really is a religion that they're espousing, but rather than truth being their key weapon, their key weapon is shame. Their key weapon is intimidation and fear. And you know, it's a religion, just like you said, it's built completely on sand.
There's nothing underneath it. And I think in our culture, people are starting to see that. That's right. And ultimately our goal is to reach them with the gospel. We're not here just to fight back and slap them down. No, no. Ultimately we're hoping somehow the veil would fall, their eyes would be open and they'll say, you know what? I need a savior.
I need Christ. Yeah. I think that, I mean, that's ultimately the goal, right? We saw over the last few months of 2024, we saw college campuses erupt with conservative values, which was super exciting because it wasn't always the cool thing to be a conservative on college campuses. I wasn't around in the sixties, but I know that that was the sexual revolution swept through. Liberal ideology started to permeate college campuses, the march through the institutions, that whole idea. And so now what you have is in that moment, it was the rebellious cool thing to do, to be liberal, to rebel against conservatism, to rebel against traditional family values. Like, so we're going to rebel against that. Well, now leftist ideology and liberal ideology has now permeated the institution of collegiate education. And so now it's the rebellious thing to do to be conservative, which is super exciting.
Here's the problem. If we do not tie those conservative values, those traditional values back to an objective moral framework built on the absolute truth of God's word, then when the next fad sweeps through the country of what's the new rebellious thing to do, those same kids will now be in their thirties, forties, and fifties with their kids. And then they will watch their kids flip against everything that they believe. And we will just continue to go around and around this vicious cycle that's what we've been in as a nation. Pendulum always swings back.
And if we're not ready for that pendulum swing back, then of course we'll pay for it. There's a whole different battle coming. There's always a battle coming. The enemy never stops to rest. Now we think about what we want is this great.
His life is wonderful. No, the enemy is always regrouping and restrategizing. It's not over. I love that you said that. It reminds me so much of the temptation of Jesus that we find in Matthew and Luke 4, where it says that the devil left him until a more opportunity. So he didn't like abandon the mission. He didn't abandon the target objective of I'm trying to get him to follow me or to really take a shortcut to his destiny.
The Bible clearly says he left him until a more opportune time. And I believe that right now we are in a moment where we have been granted a reprieve as a nation. This is not a rescue. This is a reprieve.
And I've heard it said that when the opportunity of a lifetime comes that you must act within the lifetime of that opportunity. This is a small window that we have to really see God do something that we've claimed that we wanted him to do. We've prayed for him to do this. We've wanted revival, right? But I'm going to tell you something right now that revival is messy. The types of people that need to be revived, they're not coming in cleaned up before they get revived. They're coming in dead.
They're going to look a little off. They're going to look a little weird, but Jesus didn't push people away because they looked weird. He pushed people away because they looked religious.
He said, no, no, no. It's the sick that need the doctor. So do we want the sick in our churches?
Absolutely, because they need a savior. But if we never make the transition beyond just the church being a hospital, because the church has to be a hospital first, then a family that we build relationships. We go back, you know, we're all in families. We all come from families. There's conflict in families. There's challenging in families.
There's accountability in families. But then there's a third iteration, which is we go from a hospital to a family to becoming an army. It's actually taking back what the enemy has stolen from us and stolen the heritage of the saints that exist in this nation.
So I'm just so excited about it. This is one of my favorite parts of NRB is hearing people use the same kind of language that you have used. You know, adopting that army mindset and what does it take to reach people? Just like you said, you know, it's very trendy right now to be conservative. It's very trendy to hop on that bandwagon, but how do we capture that Gen Z demographic and show them that there is something to latch onto?
It's not just like this is a trend to ride. It's that there's truth here. As a pastor, what can we as a church do? How can we come alongside and point people toward that truth to latch onto?
Well, go back to the Beatitudes. You know, we are called to be the salt and the light of the world. It's the cultural mandate. And a lot of churches have forgotten that.
I mean, for hundreds of years now, because we felt like, you know, politics, that's not for us. You know, we preach the gospel and the world is more than glad to tell us. That's right. You get the people saved. We'll take care of them. We'll give them values. We'll give them success. We'll give them fun and joy and enjoyment.
You save them. And I think there's a mistake. We have to be out there in the public square, whether it's in government, in entertainment, in media.
We need to be there. One of the things that I think Sloan said, and Dr. Shah, I know you can hit on this, being an academic is that they have for so long, ever since the sixties, liberals have owned the universities. It feels like, and maybe I might be wrong with this because I'm sure you have a much more firm grasp on how these things work, but I feel like that's going to be one of the last things they give up because they're so deeply entrenched in higher education. And as a Christian academic, it almost feels like to be conservative, you have to be in Christian academics, not just higher education.
How do you think that's going to get solved? Well, so I think that's an interesting point, but I think it actually begins a lot sooner than just collegiate education. The public school system has been overrun with this demonic leftist ideology and our kids are being indoctrinated. And I submit we have, we as believers have to stop using the language of education.
When we refer to sending our kids to public schools or sending them to college, they're not being educated. They're being discipled. And so when you understand it that way, when you, when you see it in the framework of like, no, no, no, my child is being discipled and they may or may not be being discipled in the way that I would be discipling them. But if you don't take an active role in what's happening, then you're just letting whatever happens happens.
And I know that you guys have, you guys did an interview, you referenced it earlier with, uh, with Bill Federer, where he talks about silence equals consent, the idea of tacit consent, that if I say nothing, I'm giving agreement to whatever's taking place. And so that is why, you know, I know you mentioned colleges, but that's why I'm so passionate about parents going to school board. That's a great point. I mean, like if you like, number one, you need to know what your child is being taught in schools. That was one of the, the, the silver linings to COVID is that kids came home and were being taught on zoom and they're like, excuse me, what did he just say? Sorry, America is a racist nation. Like, hold on, maybe not.
So that was one of the benefits of that. But if you don't, if you don't convert that over into action and like taking a front row seat to what's happening and showing up at school board meetings and saying, no, no, no, no, this is not acceptable. You don't get to teach my child that. Well, it's almost like people have forgotten that they have any authority in this world at all. It's almost like parents have forgotten that they have a voice, you know? Well, I mean, if that's what they're teaching at the schools, who am I? It's like, have you forgotten how PTA meetings work? Have you forgotten that the school board is reliant on you as a parent? And I think that was one of the chief tactics of the enemy is to make you forget that you do have that authority.
It's authority that God gives you. Yeah. Using ignorance of the people like, no, you have no part in that.
We, we tell you what, what goes on. Now you have a part. Now we want people to run for local government. Right. You know, there was a gentleman in our church who, when I was talking about, you know, the importance of faith in government, he said, well, that was a turn off to me until he began to talk about how, you know, America is built on a Judeo Christian foundation and how our democratically elected constitutional republic, as Bill Federer says it, he said, this is who we are. And if we don't speak out, then, then we get the government we deserve at that point.
And so that, that inspired him and he's running for a county commissioner seat. Right. And, and I, I love to hear that people are getting engaged in what's happening in their government, because if we don't, we're just allowing the enemy to run roughshod over our lives. And we're just saying, yeah, cool.
Like we'll get, we'll go along to get along. And I think that there is a, there's this misunderstanding that exists that like it never, it never like, we're not in some communist country or like some, you know, a tyrannical state where, you know, we're being thrown in prison for, for preaching the gospel. Right. I mean, for Pete's sake, we're here at NRB and a massive convention center, all with faith-based organizations. So clearly we are not there yet.
That's right. So religious persecution has never shown up on our shores the way that it's done over in some of these other countries around the world. But I think that that's part of the, the, the, the context in which a lot of this stuff has grown is because we've been at ease and we haven't faced the religion. Tertullian said that it was the blood of the martyrs.
That's the seed of the church. So we really haven't had a lot of martyrdom taking place in America. So there really wasn't a cost associated with following Jesus. Well, one of the great things about you, Dr. Shaw, especially is that coming from the East, you have seen Christian person.
So it's easier for like, I mean, I completely agree with what you're saying. And I think for me and I and Ryan too, it's hard to imagine what being persecuted. Well, it's hard for us to speak with any kind of authority because we haven't lived that, but that is your lived experience. It's like you know that it happens, but you haven't lived through it. Yeah. What you were saying, Sona, about persecution, coming home from school, I think I was 12 to 13 years of age and it's about March, April. So it's getting to be the hottest time of the year. This is in India and our power was cut off.
Why? Because we were Christians. We, you know, because our home was right next to the church.
It was a parsonage. They cut the power to the church. Why should we give power to a Christian church? And so, so we know what can happen. And I think you're exactly right. Living in this war in America, we are so at ease. We feel like, nah, that's not going to happen here until it happens.
Until it happens. And I that's, to me, this, I'm so glad you brought this up because for me, what I've watched the church do over the last 30 years that I've been alive is, well, we don't want tyranny and we don't want conflict and we don't want opposition. So we'll just agree or stay silent against whatever, whatever the new thing is, you know, we, we yielded and we, we seeded the field on homosexuality and on gay marriage. We've seeded the institutions back to, to really the forces of darkness, to the detriment of our children.
We've seeded government because it's like, well, we don't really want to do the whole political thing. Like, it's just like, we, we want to, we just want to stay in our nice, you know, nice little box and we're just going to do our thing. We're just going to, you know, wave the banner of Jesus and we'll be good. And we, with no impact on culture. And I'm like, what part of the gospels was Jesus not engaged in changing culture. And I love that you use the language, the beatitudes where Jesus talks about us being salt and light. That's right.
Cause I don't know if you've ever had a stake that has all of the salt on it. But I remember my, my wife and I, when we did our rehearsal dinner, they offered us a free dessert. They offered us a, a cinnamon sort of a cinnamon sugar loaf of bread.
They brought it to the table. I know. Yeah.
That's the whole problem with NRB, right? When are you going to eat? So we're my, my food is to do the will of the fathers.
There you go. So, so they bring us this loaf and we take one bite and I spit it out of my mouth. I was like, Oh, what is that? I, because I'm a guy, I had to take one more bite. Yeah. Good. Just to make sure it's all there. Just to make sure, make sure it's all good. We did the thing like, here, smell this right now.
It was like really, really salty. Come to find out though. The lady in the back that had been making it had mistaken the sugar container for the salt container. Find that mistake pretty quick. Okay.
You learn it real quick, but here's the reason why I bring that up. If the stall only stays in the church, we're no better than that. We don't want it. Salt was never meant to stay in one location. Salt was meant to be seasoned over the whole earth so that the earth starts to look like heaven. The same could be said for light. If you, how many of you have been in a room when it's just like this massively bright light because it's contained within a single space, right?
No light needs to be diffused in an entire area where it's actually at value. That's right. So this is what the church has failed to understand. Our role is to be out in culture. I believe, and I, Dr. Shaw, you can correct me because you're the New Testament critic here, but I maintain that if Jesus were to show up to America today, obviously we know that there are some religions that believe that he came here. We know that that's not what happened, but you know what I'm saying?
But if he were to come to America today, I maintain that he probably would spend very, very little time in our actual church building much more times out in the marketplace evangelizing and talking to people about the kingdom of God, where they are, and understanding that the kingdom has value and has something to say about the place where they live. Absolutely. Absolutely.
I totally agree with that. And that's what is needed today. And that's why we're here at NRB to make those connections, to see and hear what you're doing at Turning Point and what we're doing here and how can we come together and partner so we can have a greater reach beyond the four walls of our church. So tell us a little bit about what you do with your work.
Yeah. So we're really excited that we have the privilege of getting to work alongside close to 3,000 pastors and churches across the country. We've only been around for two and a half years. So it's a miracle that we are at that scale already. We hope to get to about 5,000 by the end of the year, but we really primarily want to focus on number one, eradicating wokeism from the American public.
This idea of cultural Marxism, that there's an oppressed class, there's an oppressor class, that if you make money or if you're in positions of power, you're the oppressor, or if you have a certain skin color, you're the oppressor. We want to kick that nonsense out of the church. So that's number one. But it's sad that that came into the church. I can understand why they kick it out of culture, but it's so bad that you now have to have an organization getting it out of the church. Well, I think if you understand deception, the nature of deception is that you can't know you're deceived. Otherwise, you're not deceived. You're just being stupid.
Yeah, right. So deception and the enemy was so crafty, and we know Paul talks about that don't be ignorant of his devices. What happened was he took Christian sounding language, compassion, kindness, mercy, love, and infiltrated it and perverted it with all this demonic ideology of Marxism, and so brought it to bear. And now pastors are like, well, I need to be merciful.
I need to be kind. And so we're teaching this identity politics from the pulpit. And so I think 2020 was an eye-opening year. We've already talked about what happened with education, but I think it was an eye-opening year for a couple of reasons. Number one, in the beginning of that year, obviously we started out with COVID. So this is what gave rise to TPUSA faith. We saw COVID happen. We saw local and state and federal government offices tell churches, you're not essential. Meanwhile, and strip clubs were allowed to stay open as being essential. Also, apparently COVID knows like geographical location.
Like it's got a geo locator. You're at a church building and now we know we're at a Costco. So that's number one. So the thought was, is that when churches were told that they had to close churches, but pastors are bold. Pastors are courageous. Pastors aren't going to put up with this. Charlie will say to this day that he made the worst prediction in the history of American podcasting, which was that pastors would not put up with the tyranny of their churches being closed. Well, we know that there are churches that have tons. There are churches that are still online and there are churches that never reopened. So that was number one. Then number two in these, the church went online. So in empty sanctuaries with prerecorded worship sets and prerecorded sermons, pastors are speaking into their cameras. Then we get to the summer of love with George Floyd and all of the, and the riots that take place in the street. Now, whatever you want to say about what happened to George Floyd, that's a separate conversation, but the writing that took place in our streets is what caused pastors across this nation on their sermons and on these live streams to scream into their cameras about how America is systemically racist. And it was at that point that Charlie Kirk, our founder decided, wait a minute, the same Marxist communist socialist ideologies that I've been seeing on college campuses for 10 years has infiltrated the American church.
And I didn't realize it. So it was at that point, he's like, well, I've got to do something. So what do pastors need? Well, pastors need, and you're a pastor, so you'll know this number one, pastors need relationships.
That's right. Boldness is easy for a season when you're doing it by yourself, but you need brothers and sisters who are with you in the journey in the fight to sort of carry the load as it were. So with that, we had pastors that would be in the same city and some cases on the same street, both were keeping their church open, but they didn't know each other because they were in different denominations. So, so we need to bring pastors together to build relationships across the denominational lines. Secondly, pastors need resources. Pastors are busy. They've got a lot on their plate, right? So Charlie was like, they probably don't have six hours to do a deep dive into Antonio Gramsci and Herbert Marcuse and the march through the institutions and cultural Marxism, but we do.
That's right. So we can offer that to a church. We have a course that we've done with Patriot Academy called Biblical Citizenship in Modern America.
We also have 10 other courses that we offer. We've done some with Frank Turek, Rob McCoy, speakers that you guys would know, because we want to add resources into the church to say, Hey, you can put this in a small group. And now your church is being educated and equipped or should I say disciple on how to think biblically about what's taking place in our culture. Beyond that, we also have events that we do throughout the country. So coming up in March, we have our pastor's summit, which will be in Gainesville, Georgia, Free Chapel with Jensen Franklin, because we love to get pastors in a room and say, Hey, we'll pay for your flight. We'll pay for your hotel. We just want you to come and be, we want to pour into you. You're pouring out. We want to pour into you. So, so we've got these events in a lot of ways. And more often than not, everything that we offer to a church is free because we don't want the financial element to be the, to be the thing that is a barrier for them, taking advantage of the resources that we're offering.
Yeah. We simply want to come alongside churches and strengthen them and say, Hey, we're with you. You are not forgotten.
We are going to stand with you in this journey and we are going to see America be saved because that is the ultimate purpose of the church. Amen. Amen. Goodness.
I did better myself. That was perfect. Thank you so much for being on today's episode. It's so encouraging. Like we said, at NRB to hear people who think the same as we do, and as many of our listeners do hope you are encouraged by today's episode. If you have any questions, write in and let us know two five two five eight two five zero two eight, or you can visit us online at clear view today's show.com. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. Before I was going to say, before we close, what links can we put in our description so people can get to turning point USA.
Yeah. So you can certainly visit our website, www.tpusafaith.com if you're interested, if you're a pastor and you want to attend our summit, www.tpusafaithevents.com all the links, all of our socials are on there. Certainly follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, all, all the places where social media is happening. We're on there.
And so we're really excited about what God's doing and the, just the opportunity that we have in front of us. We're going to put all those links in the description box for you guys. You can go click on it right now and get, uh, get, get active, get involved, right? Yes. Yeah.
Absolutely. Make sure you guys can make a turning point in the way that they're doing so great. And say two more great NRV content coming your way the rest of this week. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow. I'll clear you today.