Friday, February 7th | Why We Need Christian Governance

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Link is in the description below and we are here with Dr. Abbadon Shah who is a Ph.D. in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full time pastor and the host of today's show, Dr. Shah. Happy Friday, my friend. Happy Friday. We finally made it to the weekend. It's good to be here. Good to see you. It's a great day. That's what Rebecca Black said. Friday, Friday.

Got to get down on Friday. Today's verse of the day is coming to us from Jonah chapter two, verse seven. When my soul fainted within me, I remembered the Lord and my prayer went up to you into your holy temple. Dr. Shah, I remember in 2019, we went to Jaffa in Israel. We walked around the town where Jonah departed from or was from.

No, no, he departed from there. And I remember, I don't know if you remember this, but like there was a shot. I might see if I can get this shot and give it to Nicholas to put in this episode, but it's a shot of you walking down in slow motion towards the dock and this humongous wave just like crashes up. It looks like something out of a movie in like slow motion.

We put really cool music to it and stuff. But I think about that. I can think about Jonah being in the belly of this whale and saying, when my soul fainted within me, when all this, like imagine being at the ocean floor and then saying, I remembered the Lord, you know, I remember the Lord, my prayer went up to you. Well, it has of course layers of application, one meaning, but layers of application. So the meaning definitely is about this prophet being in the belly of the fish, the great fish, and he is crying out to God. And so, so of course that is what's happening here, but there is a meaning there that's deeper and has applications, which is it represents Christ who is in the grave. And on the third day he rises again. And of course, Jesus himself used that typology to explain his coming resurrection. So what application of course, when we are in the midst of a difficult time, we can cry out to God, even if it's as absurd as being inside of fish and going down to the roots of the mountains in the ocean, you can still cry out to God and he hears you. Another deeper application would be, I would say, knowing that Jesus has conquered the grave, right?

He has gone down as deep as they can go. And because he was sinless, because he was the prince of life, he came back to life. And now through him, we also have the assurance that one day we will have the resurrection. That's right.

That's right. You know, there's a woman right now who's going through what some could be, what some would consider to be an absurd trial in her life. I don't think she's turned into God, but there's an American woman. Her name is, we were talking about this at lunch. Her name is Onijah Robinson. And someone mentioned this at lunch. Someone said SNL, Saturday Night Live, could not have written this sketch.

It's so absurd. So she got catfished by this 19 year old. What is a catfish? So catfish is where, okay, let's say Ryan is single and I want to catfish him.

I will make an online profile pretending to be a beautiful woman to make him fall in love. So he's talking to who he thinks is a beautiful woman. Or sometimes women will do it. But in her case, it'll be some man. It's a man.

Yeah. So for her, she thought she was talking to like a grown man that she was going to marry. Turns out it was a 19 year old kid trolling her. Oh. So she flew to Pakistan to marry this online boyfriend.

But then of course, when she got there and found out. So she wanted to be married? I think she's already married. Oh. I think she was already married.

I think she was, I think it's the deeper you get into it, the less it makes sense. Really? Yeah. So she's got, she's got some problems. Oh, this is the beginning of a problem. She, she got, gets to Pakistan and she finds out it was all a fake.

And then the family, the boy's family forbade this relationship. Right. So, so you would think, okay, she's just going to go back home. No, she just stayed in Pakistan. How long has she been there? I think for like a year now. Really? I think for like a year. So it says, it says she traveled there in October. Yeah. So it's become, maybe not quite a year, three, four months.

Yeah. So she came there from New York. It has become an internet sensation. People are talking about it.

It's happening right now. And so she's now refusing to leave Pakistan. She's playing like she's stranded, but she's just not leaving. They're trying to deport her, but she doesn't want to be deported.

And so here's where it gets weird. She started holding her own press conferences out on the street, like protesting, protesting other charities, protesting organizations. She was holding her own press conference. She's giving updates on this weird situation where she's supposedly stranded, but she's also giving feedback on the state of Pakistan and how it's being run. And she's demanding large sums of money so that she can fix the country. And I know that all those sentences that I just said seem like they don't go together and you're right. I mean, she's making good of a bad situation. I mean, if this seems like it doesn't make sense, correct. Yes, of course.

Everything I said makes no sense and that's where we're at now. So this is a video of her interrupting this conference. It's the Chippah Conference. I don't know what the Chippah Conference is. Do you have any clue what Chippah Conference is supposed to mean? Not a clue.

I mean, is it Pakistan's? I have no idea. Okay, let's watch it and see. There's this guy. He talks too much. Listen, he talks too much. That's it.

She's giving him the business. Listen, you talk too much. We don't know what you're saying.

Don't listen. He must be a politician. I mean, I know exactly what he's saying. What is he saying?

Can you translate it for us? He's talking about enough is enough. He's like getting on, I think, to the press reporters about their questions or what they're asking. So I think he's trying to help this woman. He's turning on him, I think. I think he's trying to help this woman who turns on him and says, you talk too much. And he's like, yes, that's it. They are. And she's like, no, you talk too much.

He's like, okay. Chippah is a, it's a well-known charity in Pakistan. It says it provides emergency and humanitarian services. And she's going there asking for money. So this is one of her where she's in Karachi and claims that she's going to move to Dubai with this 19 year old. Now these are two different places, right? Yep.

Same woman. Dubai is in United Arab Emirates, if I'm not wrong. That's in the Middle East.

Yes. This, this video is taking place in Karachi. I'm not sure where Karachi is. Is that where, is that in Pakistan? It's the capital.

Is that where Shankhan was talking about? Yes. Okay. Okay. I should, maybe we should text Sean and see if he knows this woman. We may need to. Yeah. All right.

Let's see. I'm on your camera. I'm married to Nadel Hamid. I'm Onijah Hamid. We are moving to Dubai very soon.

We're going to have our baby in Dubai. It's private. I'm Muslim and it's against my religion to tell y'all my business. She's Muslim. Yes, I guess so.

So she's certainly not turning to God for her problems here. That's um. Excuse me. I just said it's against my religion to tell you my business. Okay. I'm fine. Thank you. Is that the overwhelming majority of Pakistan is Muslim? Oh yes, definitely.

Okay. So India and Pakistan were one country up until 1947. And after we got independence, the country split into India became Hindu dominated and Pakistan Muslim dominated. That's the partition. That's the partition that took place. And so in the partition, now Hindus and Muslims were scattered all over India, which is India and Pakistan together.

But when the partition happened, it was kind of like a fear between the Hindus and the Muslims. Like you're going to kill our people. No, you're going to kill our people.

So we're going to come together. So if we are a majority in a region, then we can protect ourselves. I mean, it was sort of true, but much of that was just propaganda.

All right. So the leaders behind the scenes wanted countries, of course. And the British did not want to leave such a big country that had such powerful things going for them like railways, educational system, a strong military system, a strong police system, hospitals.

I mean, you're leaving a very, very successful place now in the hands of the locals. And they were afraid that we're going to create a superpower here. They were afraid that India, Pakistan, or both would become superpower. India, Pakistan together as India would become a superpower.

Got you. So are the British behind the partition? They're the ones that- I mean, it depends on who you listen to.

I believe they were. And I think in some sense, I don't know. I mean, it was probably a wise decision to split the country. It's not a good decision from India's point of view because all of a sudden what was one, kind of like a one nation now it's two. Keep in mind, keep in mind though, if you go back in time, this whole idea of countries was not there.

It was just kingdoms. They all fell under, like even all the way up to Kabul, Afghanistan was all part of this India, I guess you can say. So how do you know what is a country? Today when we talk about nations and countries, it's very different. How would your parents, we got to cut to a break soon, but how would your parents being Christians, how would they have viewed the partition? I'm guessing they were alive when it happened. Well, growing up, I grew up in India up until 17 years of age when I came to America.

Yeah. I mean, we were patriotic people, right? Now on my dad's side of the family, okay, more Muslim, they were more for the British.

On my mom's side of the family, they were, especially on my mom's father's side of the family, I'm sorry, mom's brother, I'm sorry, mom's father's side of the family, they were sort of anti-British. In fact, my mom's uncle was one of the bodyguards for a revolutionary by the name of Subhash Chandra Bose. It seemed just like the Bose you have, you know?

The Bose like Bose speakers? Yeah, it's an Indian company. So Subhash Chandra Bose, he was a revolutionary Indian, a revolutionary from India, fighting against the British. And my grandfather's brother was his bodyguard. Wow. Yeah, yeah. So he went to Germany, met Hitler and all that because Germany was trying to get India to rebel against the British during World War II. Right, right.

So who do you go to? You go to the anti-British people in India. So I mean, it's kind of weird. But then other side of the family were pro-India on my mom's side.

It was kind of all kinds of things going on there. So it wasn't necessarily- Pro-British, I would say. That's a good point because I was thinking that with your parents being Christian, it would be like, well, it's not really a big deal because it's between the Muslims and the Hindus, but then you also got to think your country is being split apart. So yeah, I guess that does make a big thing. To the fact, I mean, my dad was 10 years old when the partition took place. My mom was five years old when the partition took place.

I mean, how much do they know? But being the first generation in the new country, yeah, there were certain sentiments of patriotism. And then there were wars between India and Pakistan several times. And so it was kind of a sad thing. Like we were friends. We were brothers. We lived there.

There was a lot of hurt and anger. Not in my family because we didn't live on the border or anything. So it was not an issue for us. But as Indians, we feel for that. But now I don't see it like that anymore.

It's like, I'm very objective when I look at this. Personally, I wish British would have allowed Christianity to spread in India. And in many ways that would have helped Christianity grow and spread.

They didn't do that. In fact, many of them obstructed missionaries from doing their job. You know, I think about even the conversation we had with Sean Con, where now it's like it has been kind of put on us, Christians in the West, to spread that. Maybe we can talk about that a little more after the break. Sure, of course. Absolutely.

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You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. Dr. Shah, I feel like there are people around the world. We looked at this woman earlier where she was talking about all these things. She was like, I'm just going to take it upon myself to fix Pakistan. So give me $20,000.

Give me $100,000 and I'm going to fix Pakistan. And, you know, we're kind of laughing about it. But at the same time, it's like there must be some solution. You know what I mean? We look at the countries around us today, even our own country, and rather than throw our hands up and say, well, it just is what it is. It feels like everybody kind of thinks they know what it would take to fix a nation. So why doesn't it just happen?

You know what I mean? Fixing a nation. I mean, go attend a city council meeting or county commissioners meeting and you'll realize the complexities of fixing something. You really have to understand the issues that are taking place.

You really have to understand the source of the problem and understand what steps you need to take to fix that problem. You have to see the immediate and the ultimate. You need to see how everything is going to benefit people.

You have to take the roads or the paths that will help facilitate the change. I mean, many times I've sat in some of these meetings and I'm thinking, wow, wow, that's okay. I don't get it. Like, what are we doing here? Maybe I'm the one completely off or maybe something is wrong over there. You know, I don't know. We're going around and around spinning our wheels. Yeah, or just incompetent and should not be doing this job.

So anyways, I don't know how to get on that subject. How is it that it's city council meetings or things like that where there's county commissioners meetings, things like that, where there's this group of people, this delegation that's supposed to be making choices for the betterment of a society, an organization, a city, a town, a nation even. And why is it that incompetent people usually wind up on those borders? Yeah, I'm not saying everybody is. I think there are a lot of good people there. I believe there are a lot of people with the right perspective and an intelligent, very intelligent, understand situation.

But many times they do not have the majority. Or it's like they just like they don't even be focused on the right thing. Like they just sit in there worried about like what they're going to eat in a few minutes. They just got bor-bor-gum in their stomach. You know what I mean? What is the word?

I don't know. What? Bor-gum? I don't even know what... Bor-gum? Bor-bor-gum.

Huh? B-O-R, B-O-R-Y-G-M. You know that rumbling you sometimes get in your stomach? This is a term for that sensation. It might be a little more difficult to say than saying I'm hungry.

I think it's just hunger. I don't have no clue how to... Bor-bor-gum? B-O-R, B-O-R-Y-G-M. I don't know how to pronounce it. Bor-bor-gum?

Bor-bor-gum. Yeah. But I mean, I do see what you're saying, though. And that's why I appreciate you being on a lot of these council boards and these like city council and stuff like that. I'm not on the city council or the county commissioners, but I'm aware of what's happening. But you are on a lot of... You're on the public education board. You're on the YMCA board. You're on tons and tons of boards. I was on the truest board at one time when we had those local boards with 20, 30 banks.

I think that many. But now, I'm not doing that. I'm doing some other things, nonprofits. And you learn the importance of understanding how change is made. You try to understand what people are really asking for and what is the cost. And I'm not just talking about dollar and cents. I'm talking about the cost of making that change. How is that gonna impact other people?

Is this really fair? And when all this is done, are we gonna be headed in the right direction? Does this support the foundation of our nation, our values, our community?

Does it really even go with that? Right. Because communities are making decisions and they keep going because people have to live their lives and survive and make ends meet. So a community keeps going, but it's not necessarily going in the best direction.

And in third world countries, you see that right there smack dab in your face. Here, even if a community is like, it's horrible, it's terrible. Because the surrounding, whether it's the county or the state or the region is doing well, or the nation, even if a community is like really garbage, right? Overall, it still is okay.

Because the rest of the country will pull it up. Okay. I see what you're saying.

I do. So yes, in some sense, it's really bad for that community because certain leaders are in power. So we're like really stuck. But because 30 minutes down the road, we have a different county. Or 30 minutes down the road, we have a different region. The troubles of that one specific county that's doing poorly don't affect. Or the cities. Things aren't as widespread.

That makes sense. And so it's more likely not to get fixed because it's not affecting the surrounding counties or the surrounding communities. More than likely not going to get fixed as long as those people are in power. And also because people can find a better restaurant in another town.

Because they cannot get a job here, because no industry can come here because of how poorly we're managing this. Well, I'm just going to have to go to the other county or other city to get a job. That's a good point that I think I have never actually thought about that. My wife and I, it is nothing for us to get in our car and drive down to Wake Forest to go to one of our favorite restaurants. Like there's tons of places in our town that we could go and yet at the same time we choose to go elsewhere. We choose to go like 30 minutes down the road. And some of it is just to get out of here just to have different sceneries. But some is because it's better over there. I agree.

I agree. Let me ask you this, because you are on a lot of these boards and you're on a lot of these sort of organizations and you're a pastor. Do you feel like if there's not an intentional push to get pastors in these community positions that the Christian perspective isn't thought about?

You don't know 100 percent, 100 percent. That happens a lot. Even if the people on the board happen to be Christians, if they're not pastors, then they haven't there.

Is it easier for them to overlook? Yeah. Or they need to bring in a pastor to do the prayer. Like right now, I do a lot of prayers at county commissioners meetings and, you know, one of the commissioners, you know, help make it happen.

Now they were doing it, but then they were going to do away with it because pastors were not coming or whatever, whatever. And I said, look, you call me even if it's like the day before or that morning and say, hey, we don't have anybody or somebody backed up. I'll be there because that's that's something we cannot give up.

Right. You know, I don't make any decisions. I don't say anything at the county meetings, but I definitely get up and I pray. I don't I don't pray.

I don't like preaching my prayer or anything. I just pray. I pray for God's blessing upon the commissioners. I pray for God's blessing upon all our workers and all those employed by our community, our county. Pray for God's blessing upon our people. Help us to be a great community that glorifies you and lifts up Jesus Christ. Always put the name of Christ in there. Has involvement as a pastor, has involvement in the community on that level, like being a part of boards and decision making committees or, you know, county commissioner prayer type things. Has that something that's always been important to you or is it something you learned as you got into ministry?

I learned watching my dad because he was always involved in the community. Now, of course, in India, he didn't get up to pray in some of those places because they're all Hindus or Muslims or whatever. But he definitely was involved in the politics.

Then they didn't have any problem with him being involved being a Christian pastor. No, not at all. Now, I don't know what it's like. That's probably a very different world. But back then, no problem. Yeah. Fifty years ago. No, it was not. Today, I don't think it's the same.

Yeah. So I think this lady, what she's trying to enact this change in Pakistan, it's not just a community that needs better leaders. It's the whole system is built on a faulty foundation, whether it's Pakistan or India. The reason America works and reason much of Europe works is because it's built on a Judeo-Christian foundation of liberty, of freedom, of prosperity, of the value and worth of every human being. That's a great point. Even in our worst communities in America, the entirety of America is built on that Judeo-Christian foundation.

Hence, those little communities sort of survive and keep going and doing their stupid stuff. Right, right. I was going to ask you if there's pastors, because I think there is a growing push in America, especially in the South, to get pastors involved at the community and the local level. I think it's great. And I mean, we've been a part of that. We've been part of that organization. We got to meet a lot of great people.

We met Mike Huckabee through that event. Do you think that there's this sort of, I don't want to say delusion, but this sort of misunderstanding that as soon as I get involved, change is going to happen overnight, within a year or two, maybe even within five years, it's going to be radically different and people have to discover that it takes time to enact these changes? It takes time, but I think if, unlike a church, I think it can happen much faster in these city council or county commissioners, because it's not a church. A church is where it's a voluntary organization. This is not a voluntary.

Good point. Which means if you need to make a change, you make the change, which is the best for the community. You fight for that change. In church, it's not the same. Yes, you fight for the word of God, you fight for the gospel of Jesus Christ, but you still want to love and live with people and work together. Let's just say somebody is a troublemaker or a scoffer, then you have to cast them out.

But other than that, you still have to work with people, so it's not the same. It's not like you can just enact a law within the church and be like, all right, now everyone has to obey. This is here now.

Yes. You are still obligated to send your taxes in or tithes in. And if you don't do it, you're going to get punished for that. Yeah, I can't.

How can a church do that? Yeah, true. Right. Good point.

You can't do that. It's all built on good feeling. Again, please don't misunderstand me. A church is much more than good feeling, but that's, as proverbially, it's known as a good feeling. Right. You need more buy-in from a church congregation than you do from town residents. Absolutely.

Yeah. Now, you do need a buy-in, but that buy-in is based on how good a job you're doing in making that, in improving that community and helping the people of that community. And so this lady trying to do this in Pakistan, I think it's just a show. I think she's following and she is sensationalist and those silly people in that part of Pakistan are following her.

Maybe somebody is paying them and saying, hey, keep this going so we can keep our ratings going on, I don't know, TikTok or whatever. We have partnered with people who like really, really great people. In fact, here in just a few weeks, we're going to NRB and we'll probably have lunch with those guys.

But we've had them on the show here who are bringing the good news of Jesus Christ to Pakistan. What would you say to someone as we're wrapping up? What would you say to someone who's listening and say, well, I want to see change in my community. Most people don't care. I genuinely care. I'm just not even a pastor. I'm just a guy. I'm just a woman. Yeah, you don't have to be a pastor to do this.

Yeah, you can be a regular person. But educate yourself. Educate yourself. Go to some of these meetings and sit and listen for a while.

Don't just go there to fight. Sit and listen and see how things are done. And some things you will agree with, I'm sure many things you won't agree with. Figure out how our republic works. What are the foundational values?

What made us so successful? And what you realize is the Judeo-Christian values are the basis of our nation. But then also study our founding fathers. See how all this works. And then you will understand the system of government.

How does that work? How do you make decisions? Sometimes I think people flip through their folders five minutes before the meeting and they're ready to, and then they ask questions and you're going, really? You should not be asking clarifying questions. Your question should be to figure out that person's position.

Clarifying questions? Yeah, you should know that. You should know all your homework. You should be an expert on that subject when you're sitting down at that meeting. That's right.

Very true. Make sure you guys join us next week, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on The Clear Read Today Show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes if you want to re-listen. And you can always support us financially at cleareetodayshow.com. Jon, anything you want to leave our listeners with this weekend?

Absolutely. Make sure you pick up Dr. Sean Nichols' book, 30 Days of Praying for America. This is book three in our three-book series. Book four is going to be coming out very, very soon, but you can pick up all those copies on amazon.com. You can also get all our original music on iTunes or Spotify. We've got a brand new single coming out. It's called Great and Awesome. We're going to let you guys know just the second that it's out, and we're going to publicize it all over the place so you can add it to your worship repertoire at your church.

That's right. Find a church to worship with this weekend, and we look forward to seeing you bright and early on Monday morning. We love you guys. We'll see you Monday on Cleareet Today.