Thursday, February 6th | The Order of Salvation

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Absolutely nothing less than five stars. Links in the description below. And we are here with Dr. Abaddon Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism. Dr. Shah, welcome to the show. Happy Thursday. Welcome. Thank you. Good to see you. Good to be here.

Absolutely. Our verse of the day today is coming to us from 1 John chapter 2 verse 6. He who says he abides in him ought himself also to walk just as he walked.

Sounds simple, don't it? Just walk like Jesus walked. Just do what he does.

Just be like he is. And you'll be right as rain. And it's one of the things that sounds really simple until you go to actually live the Christian life and then you realize this is not as simple as I thought, you know, because I'm full of sin. I'm full of my own earthly desires. And Jesus only had, you know, I mean, he had desire, sure, but he also had his godly desire. And so you realize like it's definitely not as easy to walk like Jesus as it sounds. But we're supposed to. We're supposed to emulate him, follow him, but we're also supposed to live through him.

It's not just we doing the best we can. We're also living according to the new nature he has placed in us, which is his nature. We are connected to the holiness of the human nature of Jesus. And that human nature, again, is distinct from the divine nature together in one person. Jesus is not two persons. He's one person with two natures. We're connected to that human nature who is God, right? And so it's not like he is distinct or something separate.

No, he is God. And so we are able to live in a way that is godly and still please God being a human. You see how beautiful is the incarnation, the Trinity, where all those things have been thought through by God for us. So we are connected to him, not becoming God. And at the same time, we have his nature in us through Christ without becoming the nature of God because human and divine is distinct. So I know that's not exactly what John may have had in mind when he said all those things, and I think maybe he did.

But that's definitely how we can understand it. There are people who believe that, right? That like the holier we become, we become gods in and of ourselves. Like we become sort of divine. Yeah, it's known as deification. It's kind of an Eastern Orthodox theology where it's also known as theosis where you are connected to God. And to some extent, I agree with it. I think God's purpose for us even before the fall was to unite human beings to himself.

He created us out of nothing and then to unite us with him and then share his love and his nature with us. But at the same time, I think Eastern Orthodoxy takes it to another level where we become God. They would never, ever say that you'll become like a god, but it's almost... Like you start to take on some of God's essence? Not essence, but energy. Really? Yeah. There's a difference between essence and energy.

Wow. Like Dragon Ball Z style, like you get some of his energy. Yeah. In Eastern Orthodoxy, God is essence and energy. You're connected to his energy, not essence.

Not his essence. Okay. All right.

So you don't have the office and the reverence that's due to God, but your nature takes on a more divine sense in your ability, in your perception, in your... Exactly. Okay. Wow. Exactly.

Without becoming God. So yes, they also mean... But I don't find any essence versus energy distinctions in the Bible. So why get into all this speculative stuff when we can stay simple and say we're connected to the humanity, the human nature of Jesus? I think that's more biblical.

This may be a larger question, and if we need to devote another episode to it, we can. But do they get that from... Do they take passages of scripture and derive that from that? Or is it from other biblical writings? Other extra biblical writings, I mean. Well, there are passages in the Bible, like Peter talks about this, and if I can find that passage, I'd be glad to read it for us.

I think it's... I wanna say 2 Peter, I think it is, where he talks about partakers of the divine nature. So while you're looking for that, that was one of the sermons that you did that I thought drew a lot of people to Clearview, and I think they drew a lot of people to the radio show as well, where you said that we did partake in the divine... I mean, the Bible says that.

It wasn't something that you came up with. And yet partaking in the divine nature, how do you do that without becoming God-like? You know what I mean? So, 1 Peter... 2 Peter 1, verse 4, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. So that's usually the verse that is invoked for defecation. But I think in the context, and I explained this in the Message Coddled Partakers, which was last year in 2024, where we explained that it's not divine nature as in deity. So the human and divine natures coming together without commingling is still divinity. Do you all get that? That's why I was sharing with a young man, you know, he's like, but that's humanity.

I was like, no, that's still divinity. But that's human. Right.

But that does not mean he's not God. Right. Not the same kind of human. His humanity is different from our humanity. In a sense. In a sense.

Because he is the original, we're the copy. Right. It's the same, but it's also different. Right. So that's where the divine nature is not the divine side of things. No. Jesus being fully God, fully man, is divine. Not just the divine part is divine, and the human part is human. No.

The divine and the human part is God in the second person. Yeah. It seems like when you talk through it, at least at first value, because I know it did to me at first, it can seem like this is really nuanced. Like, okay, well, you're just splitting hairs.

Like you're doing the same thing. Right. It's like a semantic game.

But when you really dig into what the implications of each position are, it has wide reaching ramifications that you might not even realize. Absolutely. Right. Because I think, you know, I think we walked through it, and if Jesus is the same type of human, if we're already represented, then there's not really any need for him to take on human form.

We're already the same. So him being born in flesh didn't really accomplish much. He could have just descended from heaven, died on the cross. Right. I remember that being a big thing where it was, it sort of rendered the incarnation sort of moot, sort of inert. That's right. That's right. And back at the Council of Chalcedon, you know, this is something they discussed. Yeah. And I know maybe we didn't make all the sense right now, or maybe we misspoke in some particular terminology that maybe we need to be clearer or correct ourselves.

I hope everybody gives us a little break on that. But hopefully you understand what we're talking about here is something that the church affirmed. It was not that they created this, they affirm. This is what the early church already believed.

Okay. But the council came together to affirm, for one, to go ahead and have a formal statement on the nature of Jesus, but also so that somebody who is promoting heresy could read that and go, I guess I'm out of line here. Or you can judge someone who is promoting heresy and say, you're out of line here based on the statement from the Council of Chalcedon. Yeah. So anyways, yes, we are to be emulating Christ. And this big discussion we just did is not just, you know, ramblings. This helps us understand how do we emulate Christ?

Yeah. Who are we emulating? And where do we have the power to emulate? Because we are connected to Christ. Great point.

The holiness of the human nature of Jesus. We talked about this a little bit further on the radio show last year, back in February. February 26th is an episode tapping into the divine nature. Okay. Almost a year ago. Yeah. Almost a year ago, we had an episode devoted to this. So if you're curious about this, or if that sparked a question and you go back and listen to that episode, we'll link it in the description below. Yeah.

February 26th. The title of the episode is tapping into the divine nature. There you go. There you go. Good. Good. A little research there. Doing a little research right on the spot. We're going to do some more talking about theology.

Today's going to be a theologically heavy episode. That's what a lot of people listen for. There's some people out there, man, on the internet talking, and they do a lot of this one. They do a whole lot of that one right there. That's what you're doing. But they don't do it. That's what I want you to do.

They don't be doing a whole lot of this one right here. There you go. There you go.

Guys, don't go anywhere. We're going to take a quick break and be right back with more Clear Read Today. Hey, Clear Read Today listeners. We want to take a quick moment to thank you for tuning in. As you can imagine, producing a show like this takes a lot of time, effort, and resources. And we're grateful for The Truth Network for giving us a platform to syndicate our show. But the vast majority of our support comes from listeners just like you. If you enjoy these talks with Dr. Shah and you want to see Clear Read Today continue to grow, consider making a donation today because your contributions help us deliver fun, relevant, and biblical content right to your phone every single day.

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Thank you for being part of this community. Now let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com.

If you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028. Dr. Shah, we mentioned this guy yesterday, this guy on TikTok. We've mentioned him before on the show. He makes some pretty outrageous claims. He made some claims last time about baptismal regeneration, saying that you have to be baptized to be saved. If you accept Jesus, you believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, but you don't get baptized, you ain't going to heaven.

That's what he says. And I will say one of the things that I really am thankful for is that God doesn't seem to have a lot of viewers. He doesn't get a whole lot of followers, but he's very, very good at getting people to argue in his comments section. They're arguing about theology. And since we were talking about theology today, you know, he's claiming that it was only the Ephesians who were saved by grace through faith. So I guess that implies that the rest of us are saved by something else.

So anyway, for those who can't see the video, there's someone left in his comments. The gospel of Jesus Christ is we are saved by grace through faith. When I believe I am impute, I am imputed with righteousness and I am obedient.

And so this is his response to that comment. Gospel of Jesus Christ is the death burial and resurrection. The gospel first Corinthians 15, one through four, the death burial and resurrection. That's the gospel.

The good news is that we are as the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We the Ephesians, the Ephesians were saved by grace through faith. So grace gives Jesus faith. Faith says whatever you say goes, I'm going to do that. That's faith. That's what the Ephesians did. It's recorded in Acts 19, one through five.

I think I've given it to you already. When I believe I am imputed with righteousness and I'm obedient. No, no, that's not true. When you obey, that's the evidence that you have faith. When you've obeyed, that's when you benefit from his righteousness. And that's when you're clothed in Christ. Galatians 3 27 for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have been clothed in Christ.

You got some things backwards. Listen to listen to the order Jesus gave. He that believes and is baptized will be saved. Mark 16 16. Jesus. Jesus is right. So that's his point. So he's back on.

You got to be baptized to be saved. Yeah, I think he's always going to end up there. Yes, there's not a whole lot he has other than that kind of stuff.

This one drum, I'm going to hit it several times in several different places. But I wonder, and I even left a comment on his video. I said, Are you are you saying then that the Ephesians are saved differently than we're safe?

He hasn't responded because I just I just left it like a little bit ago. But is that what he's saying? That the Ephesians are saved by grace through faith. We're saved by obedience.

Yeah, that's probably what he is saying. Is that an obedience? The first step of obedience as a Christian, which even I say that is to be baptized. But if you think about what I just said, the first step of obedience as a Christian is to be baptized. So you implies that you are you are already a Christian. Hence, I will be baptized. Right.

Not the first step to be saved as a Christian is to be baptized. Right. That's different.

Right. So I guess here's my question. Why so many people so eager to not only gatekeep salvation, but also change the rules of salvation? I mean, they were doing this for a long time where they think baptism saves you. It's called baptismal regeneration. I think we sort of, you know, rebutted this guy sometime back, I think maybe a year and a half ago. I think it was.

Yeah, we did. And again, this is a bad theology where baptismal regeneration was part of the, you know, the eighteen hundreds, Campbellite controversy where Church of Christ people were talking about you got to be baptized to be saved. And there was a big battle between the Church of Christ and the Baptist, especially in the mountains over this issue. And to me, it's very clear salvation is by grace through faith. Nothing else you cannot add to it, even baptism as wonderful as that is.

And I don't think baptism is just an act. I think it's a it's a spiritual moment. Right. Right. Just like Lord's Supper is not just we do this as a symbol. Yes, it is a symbol. I get that.

But it's also a time to take seriously spiritually what is happening there. Right. That you're claiming that you're one with Christ. How can that just be symbolic?

It has a it has a something special. There's some spiritual weight. Yeah. Without being a sacrament where it provides healing or some spiritual strength to you.

Right. I think it's more spiritual, but it is something special. So also baptism. But it's not a prerequisite to salvation. Any time you bring something as a prerequisite to salvation, you you are removing the grace element. And grace is the key.

Read Paul's letter to the Romans. Grace, grace, grace. It's a gift of grace. It's a gift of right. It's a gift. It's a gift.

Right. Everything is put in that package. Now you have to open open the gift.

There are some people who will say that it's a gift and you can't do anything about it. It comes it's coming your way. Get ready or not.

You're going to heaven whether you want to or not. Yeah, you go. Yeah.

And I don't agree with that. My question is, did you see his username, by the way? Yeah. Neanderthal. Yeah.

Yeah. Who is that supposed to be? Like a Neanderthal. His name is Paul Mays. His username is Neanderthal Mays. I think he thought he was he thought he was being clever. I would not tell him the truth.

I would. Well, yeah. My question is, if he if he latches onto this passage where it says, you know, by grace, you've been saved through faith and he applies that to just the Ephesians. What justification does he have on taking that and making it just the Ephesians? And then if we look at all of Paul's letters, was it just specific for that group of people or are they meant for all believers? Yeah, because it seems like there's it seems like there's people wanting to chop up.

I understand. I don't agree with it, but I at least understand people like, hey, the Old Testament, the New Testament, they're at odds. But now it seems like people are like chopping up the New Testament and saying, look, he was only talking to the Ephesians that only applied to them.

Well, it's not just him. People have done that through the ages. They've tried to come up with a canon within the canon. So there are certain books that it's OK. Now, Martin Luther did that with the Book of James, which I think he was absolutely wrong. The Book of James is canonical scripture is the inspired, inerrant word of God. And it's on the same level, I would say, as the Book of Romans. It is just giving you the other side of justification by faith. It's a faith that works.

OK, so people have done that at times. I would say the classical form of dispensationalism does that, where the synoptic gospels are not for you. Yeah. Don't go to synoptic gospels to find principles to live your Christian life.

Wow. That's just the story. It's supposedly just the story of Jesus. It's important. It's important, but it's not applicable. So the parables, none of that is applicable. Yeah. They will say, no, it's not. That's why I'm not a dispensationalist.

Right, right. Now, there are different forms of dispensationalism. There's classical, there's revised, there is progressive dispensation.

I mean, I still have trouble with all three of them. Do you think he's bringing dispensationalism in saying that the Ephesians are saved one way and everyone else is saved another? I don't think he's a dispensationalist because dispensationalists will actually say Paul's letters are the only ones applicable to us today.

Really? They're only Paul's letters? No, the rest after the book of Acts.

Okay. So I guess Petrine and Johannine letters also are for us. They're applicable in the sense of salvation or just Christian life? Where we are as the church today. Is that because we're Gentiles? Not just Gentiles because Jewish people who are also living in this age have to go to Paul's letter.

Oh, okay. Because when Jesus was speaking to them, blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Does that mean poor in spirit is all that you need to do to be in the kingdom of heaven?

That's what they will say. But why would, I wouldn't assume that about anybody, let alone Jesus. I wouldn't let alone when he says, hey, people who are, that's the same kind of rhetoric we have in our politics where it's like, hey, this group of people has had it really hard.

Oh, so you're saying the American Indians haven't had it hard? They're the only people? It's like, no, of course I didn't mean that. But dispensationalists will do that with Jesus?

Uh, in some way, I don't quite understand your illustration. So like they're saying that Jesus is what Jesus was saying in the middle of in like in the Beatitudes, blessed are the poor in spirit. So you're saying that there, that's all you need? It's like, no, of course nobody would think that that's what Jesus meant, that that's all you need to do is be blessed. The same thing, like what we see in politics today where we say that this group of people was marginalized, other people will come out and say, so you're saying that this group isn't? And it's like, no, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm just talking about this right now. I got you. Um, that's what I would say, but their argument would be, okay, but that's not what I'm reading here. Okay.

That's not what I'm reading here. Uh, or pick up your cross, deny yourself, deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow me, right? Is that what it means to be saved? Just deny yourself, pick up the cross and follow me.

And we're not even talking about the literal, I don't like myself. Where is that wooden cross? I'm going to follow Jesus.

Where is he at? I'm just going after. I don't think it's a literal issue either. It's just, I thought it was about receiving the gospel of Jesus Christ. I thought it was about believing that Jesus is God's son who came, died, buried, rose again and trusting you in him, I can be saved. Like first Corinthians where it talks about the gospel. Is it that, or is it deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow me? And I would say yes, to some extent, yes, to some extent, some of the things, the way Jesus said it were only applicable to that group that it was there in some sense, but in many sense, it's still applicable to us because what Jesus was doing in that three and a half years of ministry, we, once we put that filter on it, right?

Three and a half years of ministry, prepping him to go to the cross. The message is still the same, right? There's some context to where it's like, I understand he's talking to a specific group, but that doesn't, that shouldn't imply, I think this is what you're saying. That should not imply that we're to throw the whole thing away. Like, like he was talking to these people and that it's not applicable to us. It's like if you're preaching the gospel to people on a Sunday morning, a hundred years from now, if someone finds that YouTube video, they're saying, Oh, well, he was preaching to them in 2025.

So that really has nothing to do with me. Let me give you an example from our American experience. Sure. George or Patrick Henry, Patrick Henry at St. John's church in Richmond. Give me liberty or give me death. How would you read that today? Now I don't know what he said is not the word of God. Okay. So there, there is that huge distinction between what Patrick Henry was saying and what the word of God says, the Bible says. But still, I can apply that today.

Let me tell you how I can apply that today. Liberty, freedom is at the heart of what it means to be an American. We are a people who are born free. We, we have freedom to exercise our religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom to make ourselves whatever we want to be, right? This is what he was saying does have application and is very relevant today.

Right. Go back 150 years to the civil war. Would Patrick Henry's cry of give me liberty or give me death. Was this still applicable then? I would say yes, it was applicable maybe in several ways.

Maybe it was applicable in the sense that even African Americans, black people in America could, could claim that and say, that's what we're talking about. Give us liberty or give us death. It works for us. That's, that's what we want.

We want to follow Patrick Henry. Right. Or the Confederate armies or the South could say, give me liberty or give me death means state's rights. We have the right to determine how our state is going to go.

So they could, they could use that as well. Right. You know, and to some extent I would lean on the side of the African American community because yeah, but slavery has got to go. You cannot keep this institution alive any longer. I get the state's rights and I'm very much for it. I think it's, it's a very neglected thing. But at the same time, the states don't get their act together and you're going to keep people in, in slavery.

How long, how long, how much longer do you need? Right. Good point. You know, and that's why Abraham Lincoln was saying, get with it or I'm going to raise up an army. Right. You know, and definitely has a point. Of course, you know where I stand on state's rights, but at the same time, this was it. Yeah, this moral evil can't. But you see how Patrick Henry's statement applies differently because at the time he was talking about against King George, like give me liberty or give me death means you cannot control us anymore.

I'd rather die. And coming from the Southern, you know, the, the, the, the Scottish Highlander background up in the Appalachia, we know what he means by that. Right. Liberty to him is very important.

It's like my natural right. See how, how it applies. Right. And so also with Jesus, like even though he was talking to a specific group about a specific issue, the heart of what he says is still very much absolutely applicable. And it does not for a single moment, compromise Genesis three 15 or John three 16. Yeah. It doesn't compromise.

Right. If we follow this guy's train of thought, which I mean, we're not, hopefully you've listened to the show and you can tell that we're not, you know, in this camp. If we follow his train of thought and we get the order of events mixed up with salvation versus obedience, what's at stake?

What do we, what do we stand to lose? I don't think he would agree with me on this, but I think his view of the Bible is, is seriously flawed. He may claim inerrancy, but I don't think he is, he's actually being a good inerrantist. Really? Yeah.

Yeah. Such a great reminder for us, especially in this day, this day and age of social media, everybody has a platform. Everybody can be a TikTok theologian and no look all polished on the internet. They sound confident too. They do sound confident. It's easy to sound confident when you're in a room by yourself in front of a screen. And he's like, no, sir, no, sir, no.

What you just said is not true. Maybe this is something we can talk about later, but the whole being imputed with his righteousness, like that's, I mean, I don't think we're going to get it in the next two minutes, but that's a topic I would love to, uh, to run by you. What does that mean? How do we get Christ right?

Does he just look at us and pretend that we're righteous because of what Christ did or do we actually went and close one eye and sort of see, I can sort of see Jesus or do we actually become righteous? I think that's a great topic as well. Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clear Read Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes. If you want to re-listen or share it with a friend, then you can always support us financially at ClearReadTodayShow.com. John, what's in your hands? Oh, I felt like a little kid at kindergarten.

This is Dr. Shot and Nicole's book, 30 Days of Praying for America. We want you to be able to buy it on Amazon right now. This is actually book three of the 30 day series. I'm very pleased to announce, Dr. Shuh, tell me if this is too early, I'll cut it from the show, but book four has begun drafting. We are now drafting the fourth book in the 30 days.

We're going to reveal that title to you a little bit later, but book four is coming. We're hoping, hoping, hoping it's going to be out by April, maybe June, April, May, June. I would say somewhere at the most May. May. May would be good. May would be great. And we're going to do some radio shows on that. But you can get book three, book two, and book one all on Amazon right now. You can also get all of our original music on Amazon, Spotify, iTunes, Rhapsody, anywhere digital music is streamed or sold. Brand new single called Great and Awesome coming out in just a couple of days. I want to make sure that you guys get that as soon as you possibly can.

That's right. Make sure you guys join us tomorrow. Same time, same station. We love you guys.

We'll see you tomorrow on Clevee Today. No, um, secret word? Oh, I forgot the secret word. The secret word was collywobbles.

Let me get the, let me get the, let me get the womp, womp, womp of shame. I completely forgot. It was collywobbles. I didn't even think about the secret word.

I'm not a good secret word. Collywobbles is wild. Do you think you would have caught that? No. You, you don't think you would have caught collywobbles?

I don't cauliflower. Well, I'm saying you would have, do you think I would have gotten away with collywobbles? No. Immediately, yeah.

Immediately right out. All right. I'll try it again next. I'll try it again next time. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clevee Today.