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Fun fact, no. I have to make my own with McDonald's Sprite, and you guessed it, Texas Pete. I am genuinely horrified to hear that.
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Where's my Mountain Dew? Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. That's right, and we're here once again in the Clear View Today studio with Dr. Abbadon Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor and the host of today's show, along with, drum roll please, a very special guest, drum it Ryan, drum it Ryan, drum it Ryan, Mr. Sean Conn. It's good to see you, my friend. Good to see you.
I'll give you some air horns. Welcome, welcome. It's great to have you on the show.
Any long time... I didn't mean to cut you off, but I was going to say, any long time listener of the Clear View Today show knows that Dr. Shah was actually on your show, the Sean Conn podcast, maybe four or five months ago? Yes, that's right. And the response that we had in our church was so overwhelmingly positive. It was, it was. People loved that episode. They watched it in droves.
I don't know if you know that, but people at our church gravitated to that episode. They loved it. They couldn't get over the fact that I was talking in Hindi with you. So you never spoke in Hindi to them? No, no, never had. That was the first time...
I've known Dr. Shah for about 13 years, maybe 12, 13 years. I had never heard him spoken. I've given them words. It's like, how do you say this?
How do you say that? But it was never seeing me or hearing me have a conversation. So that was jarring. Well, it was just, it was really cool because it's like, you know a person for so long, but then you see another side to them. It's weird. It's like something... It's like another facet.
It is. Like it's always been there, but now we see it in action and we're like, oh, I know another side of you now. It's really cool, I think, to see people speak in other languages. Some people find it alienating. I think it's the exact opposite. It's interesting to see how people's brain works in that way and to have that conversation between you two.
I've watched, I've gone back and re-watched it. I have no clue what's being said, but it's just very fascinating to me. I love it.
Right. I love it. And the pastor who we were living with, who trusted us, whenever Sonny and I, you know, speak, he'd say, did you say that the toes got burned? That's really cool. Well, Jon, it's a great, great pleasure to see you. We met, for anybody who's wondering how this happened, we met at NRB in 2024. Which is the National Religious Broadcasters Convention in Nashville.
Nashville. Back in the spring. Yes. And they came back and told me that they met you. I said, oh, okay. And then it developed from there. It's like, let's do something with this.
Yeah. So a lot of people saw your image. Dr. Shah was filming in Egypt at the time, but a lot of people saw your image on our banners and they gravitated towards the booth. And I think, Sean, you were one of them.
They were like, so what's the show? Talk to us about it. So we just got to talking about your scholarship and then you started telling us about your ministry.
And I think it was just sort of a destined friendship. No, no, no. It doesn't happen like that. Let's take things backward.
Let's take things backward. We met at the speech, which President Trump was giving. And you were sitting right next to me.
And you know, we didn't spoke. And when we were at the coffee. So I was in line for a cup of coffee. Sean walks up to me and goes, is the coffee free?
I go, no, I think you have to pay for it. A sad look comes over his face. And he walks away and I said, hey, I'll buy you a cup of coffee.
He goes, no, no, I'm okay. I wasn't seeing any counter to pay. So I was just curious what's going on here. That's what I thought too.
I was like, oh, there's nowhere to pay. I guess. Okay. But it was the Chris fallen as he was like, oh, I'll buy you a cup of coffee. He goes, no, no, I'm okay. Walks away. I go, okay, whatever. Start making my coffee. He comes back up again. And I said, hey, I don't mind buying you a cup of coffee. He was like, what? No, I'll buy the coffee.
Who is this guy? So I was like, okay, that's fine. Walks away. I didn't realize we were sitting together because my wife Ellie was already in there. I walk in with my coffee and I see you sitting beside my wife and I was like, what are the odds?
What are the odds? And then I think the next day, the next day, you know, when we went to the booth, you know, I saw John and Ellie and you know, yes, then God works in mysterious ways. He never comes to coffee sometimes, but then being able to see Dr. Sha come on your show and shout out to the Sean Codd podcast.
We're going to leave a link in the description so you guys can subscribe. It's a fantastic show. I really love your heart, Sean, because I think, and you can kind of jump in and flesh it out, but seeing the gospel, seeing the, the Christian, the truth of Jesus Christ coming to the East, I think is, is on your heart.
And Dr. Sha, I know you as well. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Yeah. If you don't mind talking a little bit about your ministry because you're a pastor and you're also doing a lot of ministry, helping people, especially those in need. So if you don't mind sharing that for our audience on, on the radio podcast everywhere, please. Sure.
Would love to. Well, um, um, as you mentioned that I'm a pastor, but, uh, you know, the thing that I need to mention is that I'm a second generation pastor. So my dad at the age of 19, uh, accepted the law done. You know, that's due to the missionaries, you know, uh, missionary or from States came to, uh, you know, Pakistan and you know, he preached the gospel and you know, and, and, and in that meeting, my dad actually accepted the Lord. And from then he's been walking with Christ and in 2005 God gave him a vision to start his own ministry. So, uh, from 2005 and you know, from till now he's, he built 30 churches.
Wow. God gave him a vision to build a hundred churches in all over Pakistan. And right now we have achieved 30 churches and we, you know, what's fascinating is that we have the largest church in Karachi. That's the largest city of Pakistan. No, I didn't know that we have the largest church network in Pakistan and in the main city, not in the old Pakistan, but in the largest city, which is Karachi, that's the financial hub of Pakistan. So that's where our ministry is. So, uh, but you know, in 2018, God called me, uh, to, you know, uh, go and outside the four boundaries of church and, you know, reach out to people and, you know, what it says in James chapter four, that, you know, if you know how to do good and you don't do it, it is a sin. So that's, you know, that was the thing that was it God put in my heart and you know, it always keeps on reminding me that you have to do good to reach out to them. And, you know, we were in the, in the main city, you know, our city is, you know, you grew up in Karachi.
Yes. I grew up born and raised there itself. And then, you know, I went into villages and, you know, villages you have, you know, the weather is not good. You know, it's all mud, you know, you don't have, you know, you cannot drink clean water. But, uh, one thing that, you know, how we minister in Pakistan is that, you know, uh, you, you're aware of this, that there is, uh, lack of clean water in Pakistan.
So they, they drink unclean water, which actually, uh, gives their, uh, child so many diseases, cloteria, you know, many, many diseases. And, uh, you know, we just go ahead and ask them, is there anything that we can do for you? So they say that, yes, you know, we need clean water.
And what we do is we install, uh, a clean water hand pump for them. I think I saw where you posted on Facebook that celebration that you guys did. Yes. I saw that we have done. Uh, we have, you know, uh, done that so many times now and in so many villages.
Wow. More than 130 villages. But you know, there are thousands of villages out there.
So we bring them water with the living water. Amen. Amen.
I love him. And after that, when they open their heart, because you're doing something for them, you know, you cannot just go ahead and they're Muslims, they're Hindu, they're all kind of religion people out there and you know, you know, preaching directly to them about Jesus, you're going to get yourself killed. So we tell them that we are not sure to change your religion. We are here to talk about a person who loves you, who loves you more than your father, more than your mother. And you know, even though he, you don't see him, but he sees you and he have sent us to help you out. And when they see our, you know, helping, uh, helping them, you know, they just soap in their heart. We give them warm clothes in winter. We, when, you know, the flood comes, we give them the, uh, tents and you know, we just sell them out and you know, they're happy.
And now we have started educating their kids. We have given the, uh, sewing machines to which they can sew clothes and they, the women's are now, they don't have to go to, uh, have that unclean water. The what's, what's the main thing why, you know, that's the first thing that we do for them is that when it's the woman duty to go and find the water and they have to walk two miles, Dr. Shah, two miles, barefoot, wow. Woman and children, they have to walk two miles to get the water.
And it's just like a small pot, mud pot, very familiar. Yes. And you know, in that they, they get that water and it's unclean. I mean, you know, walking two miles and what you're getting, right, right.
And in that on the way, normally what happens is that women get raped, their children's are molested, sometimes kidnapped. So it's not a matter of just clean drinking water is more than that. It's more than that. Wow.
So when we installed that hand pump, uh, in the heart of the village, so everyone could drink the clean water without having to travel two miles. Yeah. Wow. That saves a lot of time and many other things. Many lives.
Yes, absolutely. So you're saving lives here. That's amazing. And I love that. I love that heart to, to meet people in their immediate need, but also to, you know, meet their spiritual need as well.
I like, I like what you said, bring them the clean water along with the living water. I mean, that's huge. That sounds like a lot, a lot like what we do with the Kindle ministry. That's right.
That's right. We, we, we do the same thing. We meet the needs, the felt needs, right. And that gives us the access.
Of course the persecution is not the same as it would be in Pakistan or even in India. I mean, it's, it's a different world, but here you earn the right to speak into their lives because now you have met their, their immediate need, whether it's food or clothing or, or helping the children, like in just about a couple of weeks, we're going to give jackets, winter jackets, children. And so now we can share the gospel with them.
We can tell them, Hey, you need Christ in your life. That's right. Or, you know, this is a, this is going to be a Bible study.
And well, of course I listened to it because you just met a very critical need in my life. So I think the same principle. That is correct. And you know, this is what it says in Matthew 25, that I was hungry.
I was thirsty. That's right. Right.
And you know, I, you know, I, there's, there's two or three other more things. I was sick. Yes. I was in prison.
I was in prison. Yes. Yeah. So this is, you know, what we are doing, right? Right.
Beautiful. You know, one of the things that I can't help but think is, is while we're sitting here, you know, Ryan and I grew up here in the States where it's very safe to be a Christian. There's, there's virtually no risk. Even in 2024, that might be changing a little bit, but we've always known safety and security and blessing and professing Christianity in the East where the two of you grew up.
That's not true. And you know, maybe you can kind of talk about that a little bit because Dr. Shaw, I know you came here to America in the nineties and, and Sean, you're still correct me if I'm wrong, but you're still living in Pakistan, right? Yes. Yes.
I'm here for just, you know, to meet my partners and friends. What is the, what is the spirit as far as Christianity goes, what is the spiritual landscape like in India, Pakistan? Maybe when you were there, Dr. Shaw versus how it is even now in 2024. When I was there, it was a different world.
Yes, there were prosecutions as there would be something against the church, but it was very sparse. It was not as, as prevalent. Right. So I'm talking about in the eighties when I was there, we would go to the villages and put the Jesus film on a big, big screen. Wow.
No problem. Now there's some places you wouldn't go because there was a strong Hindu presence or maybe a strong Muslim presence and they were sort of hostile. So once you know that even there, you could do things and not have, you know, any, any problems just kind of navigate it correctly. But since then, I would say in the past two decades, the landscape in India has changed. It's not friendly anymore towards Christianity, towards the gospel.
What do you think might have caused that? Oh, I mean, it's a, it's a very nationalist, Hindu nationalist government and that's, that's changed. Okay. But in Pakistan, at least I can talk about my perception growing up was that it was never that easy in Pakistan. It's still not easy. Right.
And it definitely not easy today. Right. Right.
I think it's gotten worse. Oh yes. Yes. I think you must have heard about it that last year. It was last year. Yes.
Last year. Uh, they, no, it was 2022 actually did 26 churches in one single day. Wow.
So they just created a history of, you know, burning the most churches. Wow. Wow. That's incredible. I didn't know that.
I didn't, I didn't hear about that. That's insane. Right. And they are so radical. You know what, I don't know what's, who is it doing? Is it government sanctioned violence or is it radicals or radical groups?
Okay. You know, these are mobs who actually misuse their religion. I wouldn't say using their religion. I would say misuse their religion because you know, this is how it is. You can do radicalists. No, no.
97% of the population is Muslim Christians are 1.6 and the remaining 1.4 are the Hindu and other religion. Okay. Okay. Wow. In India it's different. The breakdown is different. They would say about maybe close to 80% would be Hindus and then about 19 some percent Muslims.
And there are certain areas in India which are more Muslim populated majority, less Hindus, but overall in the Christians in India are even less than Christians in Pakistan. Wow. I mean, we're talking about 0.9, 0.8%. Wow. So it's less.
I didn't know that. Yeah. It's even less now. I think it's, it's growing radically in Punjab side, right?
Yeah, it is. It is growing. There are places where there's revival happening.
There are places where churches are being started. So it is happening. Right. Right. Don't misunderstand. But the population, you know, you're talking about 1.3 billion people. So then it looks like it's less. Right.
But you're talking about a lot of Christians, but comparatively it's a smaller percentage. Are you able to travel to India where it's safer to be a Christian? No, not at all.
Not at all. Not able to travel? Not able to travel to India.
It's a big thing if you're traveling to India and only celebrities are high profile people can, but a normal person, if he desires to go in India, and you know, there are a lot of people who wanted to meet Bollywood stars. So they would stop you? They would question you and say, what are you? Yes.
The, you know, secret government agencies are going to come after you and, you know, they'll ask you so many questions that, you know, you're, you're either going to end up in jail. Wow. Wow. Back in 2008, there was some terrorist attacks in Bombay. And, and so some of the elements came from that side and we were there, we were there by the Taj hotel a month before. Wow.
We were walking right by India gate. Wow. And thank God.
Cause I mean, the bad elements were there while we were there. Wow. And God's mercy that nothing happened. I had like about 30 people with me. Wow.
Our family was there and the American Christians were there. And then we come back here and all of a sudden all hell breaks loose. So it's, it's a different world. It's, it's not a good world in that sense. What do you, what do you, what is your, if you had to, let me, let me hit that again. I'm sorry.
I thought you were going. Sean, what is it that you want our listeners to sort of take away from this conversation? Like your mission, you know, bringing Christ to the East and, and spreading that influence in a safe way. What is it that our listeners, how can we help?
You know, how can we get involved? Right. Well, see what we can do as, as I mentioned, like, you know, as it says that if you are able to do good and you don't do that, it's, it's considered as a sin for you. That's right.
So if you, if God has given you the resources, like you cannot go to Pakistan. Right. But the, the, the, the $1 is your agent. That's right. That you're sending it over to Pakistan for the gospel. Right.
So that $1 is a one agent. That's right. Right. So it's, it's like this, you know, uh, what we do is, you know, we are not just, you know, uh, educating people in, in, in church. We are, you know, reaching out to people. Right. Cause that's also God's heart.
They're, they're in God's heart in God's mind. That's the reason, you know, sometimes I'm not able to sleep and you know, God is, you know, telling me that you have to go out, you have to help them out. You have to go to this village.
I want you to go there. And you know, I I've had plenty of sleepless nights, you know, that, you know, uh, because of this. So I have to, it's a burden. It's a burden. And I had to then raise funds and, you know, go out to those people.
Sometimes we had to take that big truck to help them out, you know, with food boxes that could, you know, that contains rice, oil, wheat, uh, you know, sugar, tea, you know, anything that could, that could last a month. And especially what we are doing is, you know, we are helping out to the widows there. Right.
Because those are the, uh, women's who we are helping with the food boxes and financially the most. Wow. So there are many things.
We have 12 projects in which we are working. I would definitely give you that video, which I wanted you to play. If you can. Sure. Yes.
Where is it? Right. It's, it's on my phone.
Airplay it to, I'll tell you what, um, Airplay it to me and I'll, I'll, we'll play it. Right. Absolutely.
Yeah. So these are the 12 projects that we are working in which we provide, you know, clean water. We are helping, uh, giving free education to people, uh, to children. Uh, we are empowering their woman. You're educating them. You're also working on a child and sex trafficking in Pakistan, which, you know, obviously, uh, is, is a big thing is it's a big thing that's going on in Pakistan and nobody shows that it's not even on the documentation on any or any blog out there in the, on the internet.
And then comes the Brooklyn project, you know, where they're under the generational slavery. Uh, I don't know if you have heard about it. No, I haven't.
You haven't. Okay. Well, there are forefathers, you know, the, they get loaned from like the landlords. Same thing in India. Yeah. So they, their next all generation, they had to be, uh, they're a slave and they're, they're working, they're making breaks. So whatever season is, it's summer, it's winter. They had to work.
And they'll never get out of their own debt. So we go ahead and we, uh, you know, uh, pay the money to the landlord and we, uh, you know, set them free. Yes. Wow. What a practical picture of the gospel.
That's amazing. And there are now, you know, joining a church and now we started from the main city Karachi. Then we expanded our ministry in sin. That's one state. And now we are growing in Punjab.
So technically we are going to be in all four states of Pakistan. Wow. And you know, as I told you, we have a vision of building hundred churches out there. Yeah.
Yeah. You've definitely got your foot in the door. You know, there's a lot of people who listen to the show who I think are buying into this and they're saying, I want to help, you know, I want to give, I want to support financially. Where can they go if they want to do that? Well, uh, we have our website, that's www dot D Genesis dash foundation dot org.
They could go there. There's donate option. We have that. We are, we are using the donor box, right? So that's one thing that we have added or they could contact me on my conic info. We could share them the details. Yes, absolutely. We'll leave it in the show notes of this, of this episode as a link. If you have that video, we'd be happy to play it. Yes.
I do have it. What's very interesting is we're both sitting next to each other. Of course I'm a little older than Sean here, but I mean, we're coming from two countries that are odds with each other and have been for gosh, 60 years. And yet because of the gospel of Jesus Christ, we're not enemies. I mean, we're, we're friends.
We are a family of God. And that's what, that's what Christ does is once you know, Jesus Christ is your savior and the whole perspective changes. That's right. But that's, he's right. I mean, that's, that's not how things are when you grew up in India. When somebody goes up in Pakistan, I mean, it's there, there's tension. There's really tension there. Not with the average people. I mean, no, but, but the tension is kept there, like a governmental tension there.
The media creates that. Yeah. So yeah. Average person, do you, do you hate Pakistan?
It's like, I don't know anyone to hate, but they're being told to they're being told or they're being led to do the kind of thing. Wow. Wow. Wow.
That's awesome. Well, we've got a short video we're going to play that Sean just just showed us. And then we can, anybody who's watching on the radio, you're going to want to foundation. We believe in a world where every person has the chance to live with dignity, purpose, and hope through 12 powerful projects. We are bringing change where it's needed. Most clean water project, women empowerment project, Brooklyn project, free food project, disaster relief project, free education project, aid for persecuted Christians, free or do Bible project, helping refugees project, sex trafficking and child slavery, gospel crusades and conferences project building new churches project. Imagine women and children walking miles each day for unclean water facing, not only the risk of severe diseases like cholera, dysentery and typhoid, but also the threat of harassment, molestation, and even rape along the way through our clean water project, we install hand pumps in the heart of their villages, providing access to safe drinking water and protecting women and girls from danger alongside clean water.
We bring the living water sharing the love and gospel of Jesus. We're not just providing clean water, we're empowering women to create a brighter future. Through our women empowerment project, we equip women with sewing machines and training, enabling them to sew clothes and earn an income.
These women supported by their families are able to provide for their loved ones, bringing financial stability and restoring dignity. In many communities, children can't afford even a small school fee, leaving them trapped in poverty. Through our free education project, we provide free schooling, teaching these children to read, write and dream of a better future. By offering education, we show them that Jesus values their potential and desires for them to grow, learn and succeed.
Together, we're building a foundation of hope for the next generation. In the Bricklin project, we address the heartbreaking reality of generational slavery. Many families are trapped in cycles of debt from their ancestors and forced into harsh labor from childhood. We help free these families by paying off their debts, giving them a fresh start and to rebuild their lives. Through our Aid for Persecuted Christians project, we stand beside those who are suffering for their faith in Christ.
In places like Pakistan, where blasphemy laws often result in persecution, Christians face discrimination, violence and even death simply for believing in Jesus. We support these brave families with financial aid, shelter and hope, showing them that they are not alone. Our project to fight sex trafficking and child slavery focuses on rescuing victims, especially vulnerable Christian refugees from Afghanistan.
These survivors often endure severe abuse and exploitation. We work with trusted partners to secure their freedom, offering them safe shelter, emotional support and resources for healing. Our goal is to restore their dignity, help them find safety and show them the love of Christ. When natural disasters like earthquakes, floods or tornadoes strike, entire villages are left in ruins and families are left without basic necessities. Through our Disaster Relief project, we provide immediate help by offering food, shelter and essential supplies.
But we don't just stop at survival, we help them rebuild, providing resources to restore stability and hope in the aftermath of devastation. Our Gospel Crusades and Conferences project is dedicated to spreading the message of Jesus Christ across Pakistan. We hold large-scale events where we not only preach the gospel, but also equip local leaders to spread the message and lead their communities effectively. Alongside these efforts, we are building new churches in cities and towns, providing spaces for worship, fellowship and community. We also distribute free Bibles, ensuring everyone has access to the Word of God. By supporting these 12 projects, we are transforming lives, providing hope and expanding the Kingdom of God. We invite you to join us in this mission through your prayers, donations and support.
Together, we can help more people experience the love of Jesus and live the life they were meant to live. Amen. Wow. That was great. Beautifully done. Beautifully done.
Wow. Man, Sean, thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank you for your heart sharing that with us. It is so encouraging to hear about the bad. Certainly, you've heard about the bad on the show today, but we've also heard about the good and the work that you're doing. Just your heart, Dr. Sean and Sean, your heart as pastors to see the gospel go forth.
That's right. That's what it's about. That's what we're about here on The Clearview Today Show. And encouragement to all of us who didn't grow up overseas, who grew up here in the West, who grew up privileged and who grew up where it was very safe to worship Jesus, not only to understand, but to get on board, to become active and say, you know what? There are people around the world right now in parts of the world that I may never be able to go to, but that I can help right now for the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's more than just being thankful that I grew up safe and sound.
It's also knowing that I can change that for someone else. So we're going to leave all of Sean's info in the link below. Make sure you click on it and please donate and do everything you can to help because the gospel is bigger than all of us. Amen.
That's right. And if you're listening on the radio and you don't have access to those links, you can always write into the show and ask us how you can support 252-582-5028. Be part of this partnership that God has orchestrated in seeing the gospel go forth and seeing lives transformed. Sean, anything you want to plug before we leave? Oh, well, I just wanted to say thank you, Dr. Sha. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you, John, for inviting me.
And it's always, you know, good to see you guys. Amen. Amen.
One last thing. You're going to NRB 2025. Oh, yes. Yes, we'll see you there. It's going to be different because this time we're all going, baby, it's going to be a good time. Yes, I'll be there.
This whole team is going to be there. Yes. Oh, yes. Hey, why don't we do an episode when we're there?
Oh, yes. We'll go out and grab some lunch. We'll do an episode and that would be great. That would be great. Love it.
Love it. Stay tuned for that, listeners. John, anything to plug as we close? Yes, absolutely. We want you guys to pick up Dr. Sean Nicole's book, 30 Days of Praying for America. These are daily devotions to heal our nation. You can also pick up our debut album, Heaven Here and Now.
It's available on iTunes, Spotify, anywhere digital music is sold. As always, we appreciate you. We appreciate your support. We appreciate just your support for the gospel as we do everything we can to continue bringing it into the world.
That's right. Lots of great content coming your way the rest of this week. Make sure you guys tune in. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
