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Fun fact, no. I have to make my own with McDonald's Sprite, and you guessed it, Texas Pete. I am genuinely horrified to hear that.
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Where's my Mountain Dew? You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abaddon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. You can find us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearViewTodayShow.com.
That's right. We want you guys to help us keep the conversation moving forward. You can do that by supporting the show. You can share it online with your friends and family. Leave us a good five star review on iTunes or Spotify, anywhere you get your podcasting content from.
We're going to leave a couple of links right there in the description so you can do just that. Ryan, happy Thursday, my friend. Happy Thursday. We're trucking on through this week, man.
This week has brought us a lot of good times, brought us a lot of bad times. It's brought us some times where just, I got to be honest, I really wanted to fire some employees here. Unfortunately, I don't have the gumption nor the authority to do so, but I might take it to Dr. Shah later to see if we can let a couple of people go.
Hate that for them. I don't want to say that this was a world-class hissy. Well, first and foremost, we should introduce this segment. This is a segment of our show where we talk about something embarrassing or something kind of cringe-worthy that's happened to this that we would most rather forget. But instead, we're going to put it out on the airwaves for you.
Love and tradition, the grand design, some people say. Okay, so I threw a world-class hissy. Oh. Is that the did I do that?
This is the did I do that. Well, here's what happened. I threw a hissy fit in the sanctuary. We were prepping for our new building, our new sanctuary, new worship center. We were going live.
It was a couple of days before first Sunday, and we were just getting things together. It was one of those hisses where... See, when I throw a hissy fit, it's kind of still joking. Do you know what I mean by that? Yeah.
Someone told me this, and I ran this by Ryan. They said, you know, with you, it's very difficult because people don't know when you're being serious because you joke so much. But then even when you do kind of cross the line into, hey, now I'm serious, there's still an air of joke that people are confused.
They're like, I don't know what to do. That's accurate. I was kind of throwing a hissy because things just weren't getting done fast enough. They weren't getting done on time.
I saw the deadline getting closer and closer and closer. I don't remember exactly what I said, but I think I said, hey, guys, if we don't get this going right now and if we don't get these lights hung and we don't get them aimed, I'm going to demote every single person in here to something that involves touching poop with your hands. Oh. Even that, when someone says something like that, it's like, well, he's clearly annoyed, but- That was kind of silly.
That's not threatening. Yeah. That was kind of silly. I was kind of like, oh, he's serious, but uh-huh. I get a text from a worship team member, hey, don't know if you know this, but I don't know if I should be hearing you on the outdoor speakers.
I was like, oh, that's my favorite development. I'm not going to say who it is, but someone texted me, someone on the worship team, because they were leaving and we were getting some lights and sometimes people in the parking lot, they stay and they talk in the street light, whatever. They just don't want to go home. That is hilarious. And they were like, hey, I don't know if this is on purpose, but I can hear you through the outdoors, because we got outdoor speakers to cover our parking lot.
We were testing them. And they picked up the hissy. They picked up the hissy. So I do want to apologize for my world-class hissy. I promise that I don't verbally abuse the employees here at Clearview Church. I would like to apologize to everyone here in the church, also those in the immediate vicinity that heard my hissy in the parking lot. That being said, yes, I didn't want anybody who was living down the street. Those speakers are loud, by the way.
You can hear them probably down at the stoplight. But for anyone in Clearview Church who was affected by this hissy, except for the employees that I was throwing a hissy at, I'm not as sorry to them, but I am sorry to everyone else who might have been affected. This is not me and I will issue a formal apology later on today. Sure. That's big of you. Yeah, thank you.
Thank you. I'm still going to try to get Dr. Sean here to see if we can get slowness, maybe punished by flogging. Maybe not flogging, but definitely some sort of beating.
You know what I mean? Yeah, I think just a little bit of physical violence applied. It'll just kind of burn that out of the culture. Maybe just a slap on the back of the head or on the neck or something. I really think we should have just a low-voltage cattle prod.
Maybe. I'm not looking for any lasting damage, but just a quick zap just to remind you, hey, let's move along. Do you think you might work faster, fellas, in the back? Do y'all think y'all might work faster if y'all were just assaulted more? We could just have just shot collars that are issued. When you walk in, sign in, put your shot collar on, and then if you're not moving, quicken up, just boop. Yeah, do you think that would incentivize y'all? I'm not hearing anything.
Yeah, because he's being slow on purpose. This is the cattle prod. Hey, listen, today's secret word, fraternize. Fraternize. Fraternize. Okay. To fraternize with someone is to be friendly with them or spend time with them in a friendly way. Sure. Fraternize. We're going to try to sneak that word past Dr. Shy in today's conversation.
Hopefully, he won't catch on. Why don't you fraternize with us and let us know if you've ever had a hissy that's been unintentionally broadcast to the parking lot or maybe you were on a phone call and you were pitching a hissy and didn't realize that you were still on a phone call with somebody. I have done that. I didn't realize I hadn't hung up before, and I'm like, oh, you just heard all that. If you're going to throw a tantrum, you really want to make sure that only the person you're angry at hears you. You don't want it.
Nothing takes the air out of your sails, other than being embarrassed. Yeah. Everyone heard that. Write in and let us know. 2-5-2-5-8-2-5-0-2-8, or you can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Hey. Hey, you. Me?
No, not you. You, listening to The Clearview Today Show. You're here right now because you love Christian talk radio, and I'm 100% down for that, but what if I told you that Clearview Church also produces original music?
That's right. At Clearview, we're more than just a church. We're a vibrant family where everyone is encouraged to worship God right where they are. We wanted to make sure that your worship doesn't stop when you walk out the door on Sunday morning. Our music is more accessible than ever.
You can worship God in any situation. In the car, at home, in the gym, while cleaning your house, wherever you are, we'll be right there with you. You can check us out on Apple Music or on Spotify, anywhere digital music is consumed. We've got a few singles out right now. We have an EP out as well, and right now, at this moment actually, we are working on our first ever full-length original album.
Hopefully that's going to be out sometime this coming summer. Clearview Worship on iTunes and Spotify is your 24-7 place for inspiration and worship. Follow us today and let God's message of hope, love, and faith be a guiding light in your life.
Amen. Let's hop back into the show. Welcome back to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. If you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028.
That's right. We're here once again in the Clearview Today studio with Dr. Abbadan Shah, who's a Ph.D. in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of Today's Show. Dr. Shah, have you ever been having a conversation with someone, something you thought was kind of private, something maybe got a little bit heated, but you're having what you assume is a private conversation and then you look and there's a door open or there's people listening or like, have you, has something like that ever happened to you where you're having what you thought was a... It used to happen a lot by my office and I had to go, shut the door, shut the door, shut the door. Or like even someone comes in and they're venting to you about someone down the hallway.
Let me just tell you what happened in Bible studies. Like, can you please just shut the door? Well, with other people, I'm not that, I'm like, I'll just get a walk over there and shut the door, but the staff, which they don't do that anymore.
Most don't because they know how I feel about this. And the reason is it's confidential because we don't want to talk about something or some issue someone is facing or some marital issue or something with somebody else walking by, a third party walking by. So shut the door. We have a new feature here at Clearview, Dr. Shah, which is the outdoor speakers, which means anything that gets said during rehearsal, anything that gets said during some of that downtime, if it's going through the sound system is being broadcast out into the parking lot.
Is there any way to shut that? Yeah. We just have to turn the amp off, but it's so new. We're just not used to having it. It's a step that we're having to remember. Y'all better.
Yeah, we have to because I was talking encouragingly to the worship team, some of the guys on the worship team who were moving at a speed that was not quite as optimal, had a woman text me like, hey, I don't know if you know this, but the outdoor speakers are more relevant. Yes, I know. I know.
I was there. I was like, thank you. Thank you for letting us know. Everything you're saying.
Thank you for that. So I wanted to make sure that that was something that was not just specific to me, that that had happened before. It happens. Keep it down. Have you ever seen me do that in conversation? Yeah. So sometimes we'll be talking.
It doesn't really happen as much anymore, but there were times where we would be talking and like I would get worked up about something and I'm like talking and talking and he's like, just calm down. Bring it down. Bring the decibels down.
This office, I don't know why you think it's soundproof, but I'm sure you that it's soundproof. But even restaurants. Yeah. Sometimes y'all have talked loud and I'm like, start talking to some people. So here's the thing.
Here's the thing. It's kind of funny because once you get in that habit, sometimes you bring new people in and they are not used to it. So then they get super excited and then you guys are like, yeah, like, like I'm having to do that thing. Like Ellie and I have a code.
Ellie and I have a code. If someone is getting louder, if someone's like being too much, you just just tap them on the leg. But I can't do that with new people on the team. Yeah. That's how many ways it's like. And then, so what is it? Like, keep it down. Hey brother. This is me telling you to be quiet. Hey brother.
I know this pot calling the kettle black, but you're talking too loud. Respectfully. The verse of the day today is coming from Hebrews chapter 11 verse seven by faith. Noah being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an arc for the saving of his household by which he condemned the world and became heir of righteousness, which is according to faith. One of the things that I have learned at my time at Clearview, Dr. Shaw is how rich and poetic the book of, I almost said the book of Noah. The story of Noah is I thought we were a Bible believing church, believe it or not, not in there. Yeah. The gospel of Noah.
Nope. Which is true, but not as a book. So I, I've never, I always have seen it as this is the story of Noah. This is how God destroyed the world is how much hate God hates sin, but seeing how much Christ is reflected in the story of Noah and in the narrative there is something that I never really took into account before meeting you before, and before, before coming here to Clearview. That's right.
That's right. In fact, everything from Genesis on is about Jesus Christ. Now we had a discussion about this earlier at lunch that yes, you need to first treat every passage in its own context and understand what was happening there. But don't forget that is, that is not the complete interpretation. The complete interpretation is now to see that passage in light of that story, which is one story. The Bible has one story and the story is about the coming of the son of God to give his life for us. That is the story. And so Jonah is much, I mean, Noah is much more than just this righteous man who lived in this pre-flood times and the world was just crazy.
And so God decided to kill everything, but pick this one man to propagate the human race. It's much more than that. That's the immediate context and the immediate story. But then there is a fuller meaning, which of course it's a type of Christ. They're saved by being inside the ark. Right.
Right. So there's, there's a lot of typology going on there. There's a lot of poetic, like imagery as well, but I think one of the things that we did have this conversation earlier at lunch, which kind of sparked my interest in this, and I wanted to kind of get you to talk about it on the show because I was saved in 2007 and the guy that led me to Christ and was my youth pastor at the time was more on the reformed side of things.
Big, big, like John Piper fan, he was more on that side of things. So I don't know, I didn't know at the time that I was being taught through that lens. And so I don't know if this falls on that or if this is an anomaly, but I didn't, I was always told that everything in the old Testament does point to Christ, which is fine, which is great, right?
This new or the, well, that's my thing. Is this a new idea that, Hey, no, not everything points to Christ. You have to look at it as its own story first.
Is that a new development or like a recent thing or has that always been around? It's always been around, but without marrying it to the one story, which is the Christ story. So that was separate. So covenant theological interpretation is more about that one story. Forget about the immediate context, get to the one story.
All right. And that's where a lot of times the metaphors are interpreted for something. And if, if a passage is really hard or difficult or pro ethnic Israel, we'll just make it a symbolism for Christ.
Okay. So when you say just get to the one story, do you mean the immediate context of like Noah, for example, or by the one story, do you mean the overarching narrative? The overarching narrative.
Yeah. So it's not about, they're not going to deny the historicity of Noah's Ark, but they will not stop there. They will go on and talk about Christ being the Ark, the world being in a flood is the judgment of God against sin. Those who got inside the Ark, which means those who are in Christ are safe.
And that, that is true, but it's so much more than just that. It is about the immediate context, which is this man was living in a time where angels had corrupted the human race, right? And they had completely destroyed everything.
And there was only one family left. They were, it says they were righteous before God. I'm not saying every human being was corrupted, but they may not be corrupted, but they must have been, they might've been allies to the corrupted ones. And so even animal kingdom, I think was corrupted at this point. So God decided to take only two of every kind. He could have left all the animals living, what did they do wrong?
No, everything had to go other than two of each kind and the male and female so they can propagate their kind as well and restart. So that story is important too. But then if you know, if you've been at Clearview long enough, there's another element to this, which we try to bring out, which is the whole idea about the greatest catastrophe of all times. Right? So.
The, gosh, I had a thought in my head. What I'm trying to say here is get a great catastrophe in the sense of this is how the earth is so marred. This is why the earth is so messed up.
When you see, like even what's happened in the Western North Carolina, right? Or all the Appalachian Mountains, where is all this, this loose dirt coming from? Okay. Now, if you study creation and if you study Noah's flood and read some of the things that have been written, again, I am not a geologist.
I'm not even an amateur geologist. I mean, I'm just simply studying those who have written from a six day creation perspective. Okay.
Six, 24 hour day creation perspective. And they actually take Noah's flood literally. I read those people and I study them as long as they are bona fide, genuine scientists and PhDs.
Okay. I want to know what you have to say. And thank God there are people who are all that and born again, saved Christians.
Right. So they haven't thrown their minds away and their degrees away. They just applied them for God's kingdom. When you read some of those people, you find out that some of this, when the waters receded, okay, the waters receded twice. The first time was at creation, when God separated the waters from the land, waters receded, and they moved rapidly away and in the process they formed gullies and caverns and ravines and all that stuff. And then after the flood, when God began to once again let dry land appear and even prior to that, when all those fountains of the deep broke open, it means in a sense, those mountains were the rock layers were just pretty much kicked up into the air, right? Like Mount Everest. I mean, if you see, it's not like a nice rolling hill. It's like jagged rocks. Like somebody just ripped the earth up, right?
And so that's what happened here too. So you see mountains in the Western North Carolina, Appalachian, where there are those jagged mountains and then you see rolling hills. How do you reconcile those two? And then we live in the Piedmonts, you see layers of dirt just kind of like water receded here and left all this dirt kicked on those jagged rocks and part of those rolling hills. The flood that came with Helene is as much of that as that loose dirt on top that separated and finally washed and came down with all that rain and the water that didn't saturate into the ground, it all just came rushing down and you saw the devastation. I mean, that's, we're still feeling the effects of Noah's flood. So do you, so that's, I'm glad you ended there. There's a third layer, if you know what I mean. Yeah.
Well, I'm glad you kind of parked it there because that's what I wanted to ask you. Do you mean to say, and by that, I mean, I guess is your ultimate point with that being that if you just focus on the typology of the story, you're missing a lot of very applicable context that the story of Noah's flood actually teaches us about Christian life and living and how our world works today. Both. Yeah. Christian life and living, you know, how can we also living in an ungodly generation still be godly while God's judgment is coming? So that's one layer, but then there's also the apologetic layer, which is the state of our world, the catastrophe, the greatest catastrophe that took place, which was Noah's flood and how we're still seeing signs of that and how that points to the veracity of scripture. That's another layer of, of that's interpreting the scripture.
Right. I think that's so helpful to bring that lens back in front of us and just looking at the world through, through the lens of scripture, seeing it through the account of the biblical narrative, because I remember times talking about, you know, what's happened with hurricane Helene and the mountains of Western North Carolina, I remember driving through places like Arizona and Colorado and talking about, you know, the, the geography and the topology and what has happened, why the, why the ground looks so different there. And you know, we can, we can hypothesize about a bunch of things, but when you approach it through the lens of the Bible, it makes so much more sense.
And I appreciate that so much, not just about our conversations, but about your, your preaching. It reminds people that the Bible wasn't just episodes that we saw in a TV show. It wasn't just things that happened that occurred in isolation. This is the same world that we're living in, where all of these things have happened, where Noah and his family walked, where the flood occurred, where Jesus was. I mean, this is the same, this is the same globe. Yeah. This is the same globe.
Right. So Noah's story helps us realize this is one, one location, this is not three, four, five different locations. And correct me if I'm, if I'm misinterpreting you, Dr. Shaw, but I think a point that you're also making is that if you focus so heavily on where is Christ in this story, how can I apply this to the New Testament?
You risk missing all of that applicable information. It's almost as if the Old Testament can't and shouldn't stand on its own is how people sort of treat it. It's most as if they treat it like the Old Testament without the New Testament is completely useless. Like there's just absolutely nothing you can gain from it. Right. And that's not true. Right.
There's nothing you can gain from it. You see a lot of parallels between this character of Noah and Jesus. And I know that's, that's something else that you've talked about before is that the, those Christological typology, I don't know what I'm trying to say, but those, those parallels are there on purpose. Like Noah, he doesn't, he's an upright man.
He doesn't fraternize with the enemy. He is, he's the only hope to survive God's judgment to come. And it's a limited time offer with their salvation. How do you, how do you get to a point where you're saying, okay, that's not what the story is. That's just part of it. Or would you say, no, that is what the story is.
The story is these parallels towards Christ. Yeah. I would say both. Okay. Both and. So, so both can be true. Yes. Okay.
The immediate story about, you know, how, how do you build an ark and how he preached for all those years and all that, that, that's, that's a very essential, but then how it fits in with the whole council of God, the new Testament. That's it. That's added on. I do want to just go ahead and give that to myself. Fraternize was the secret word of the day. I saw, I thought that, I thought that, but I was like fraternize. I mean, that's such an easy word. I'm like, I'm gonna let you have it. Some of them, thank you my friend. I saw it.
Some of them were kind of easy. I was like, yeah, I was like, I was like, is it typology? Cause he's talking about typology so much. Fraternize. Fraternize. Fraternize was the one.
Well, so that's, that's what I, and that's what I like about you and I really respect about your style of scholarship is that I feel like a lot of times you are really encouraged to pick a camp. Yeah. Either it's about Jesus or it's not about Jesus. Yeah. And what I like about you is that two things can be true and they can both be a hundred percent true.
Right. And this is something else we talked about, maybe we can dive into this. Is it possible for us to know the Old Testament author's full intent in writing the scripture? You know, is that something that we can ever say with confidence that this is what the author meant and that's it? I think as long as we do our due diligence in properly studying the Bible in its historical grammatical context. I didn't say historical critical because that's that, that, that is also a system of studying the Bible, but it's more to question whether or not it is true. Historical grammatical is more about studying linguistics, studying history, studying the land, studying languages.
I mean, all this is part of the historical grammatical. I don't discount that. I believe that helps us do our due diligence, the study it the way it's supposed to be, the genre, all that. Once you do that study, you realize, okay, I get what happened to these people.
What was significant for them immediately? But then if you say, okay, now I'm going to bring the fuller meaning. I disagree. I think we need to change our mind and perspective and see these people as understanding the fuller meaning. That's a great point.
Not just that we understand the fuller meaning and they don't know. I say Noah understood what was happening was much more than grabbing a bunch of animals and taking his family into this big boat and then all hell breaks loose. I think the picture we have, at least this was my picture of Bible characters growing up, is that they make it through their lives and they walk through the drama of their story, whether it's Abraham or whether it's Noah or Moses or these characters, and then they get to heaven or they get to God's presence and they look back and they're like, oh, now I see. Now I get it. I didn't understand what was happening then, but now I see how this points to Jesus.
No, no. And you've reminded us of this, Dr. Schott. They knew that they were participating in a grand story that God was telling. They knew that they were characters on that stage.
I think that was sort of the heart of my question was there's allegory, like there's a symbol and foreshadowing and it's like, this is all representative. And I believe they knew. Right. Type characters knew. Right.
A type of Christ has to be grounded in reality, things that are actually are and are happening. Right. And let me ask you this. If someone's listening and they don't quite understand why is it so critical that Noah knew? Why would Noah come be any different if Noah didn't fully get it? Why is it that it's such a sticking point that no, they, they understood?
They may not understand all the depth that we do. Right. Okay. They did. And if we don't talk about Noah, let's talk about Abraham for a second.
All right. Abraham is also mentioned in the Hebrews hall of faith in Hebrews chapter 11. And what did Jesus say about Abraham to the Jewish people? And father Abraham saw my day and he rejoiced.
True. Could it also be that Noah saw the day of Jesus and he also rejoiced? And then it was much more than just saving. Did you know that in some way, a deep spiritual way, they also saw baptism in it. So here you have again in first Peter chapter three and verse 20, who formerly were disobedient. When once the defined long suffering waited in the days of Noah, while the, the Ark was being prepared and which a few that is eight souls were saved through water. Now listen to verse 21.
There is also an anti-type. This is first Peter three 21, which now saves us baptism, not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God. So we know that baptism doesn't save us, but it is part of the steps of obedience. Right. And I think if people rip this out of context, they can walk away thinking that baptism is what saves them. Right. And that's not true. The Ark did not save the people.
God's hand over Noah and his family is what saved the people. Right. Right. Amen. Great point. Amen.
So helpful for us, helpful in understanding scripture and understanding how the characters of scripture perceived what God was doing, how God was working in and through them to accomplish his plan and helpful in how we approach and understand scripture ourselves. If you enjoyed today's episode, write in and let us know two five two five eight two five zero two eight, or you can visit us online at cleerviewtodayshow.com. Don't forget you can partner with us financially on that same episode, on that same website, same episode. Scroll to the bottom, click that donate button and let us know what's coming from our Clear View Today show family. Jon, anything you want to plug as we end the episode today? Surely I do want to plug 30 Days of Praying for America, daily devotions to heal our nation.
The election may be over, but we have a nation to live in and it's a long way back to getting on the right road towards God. We want to encourage you guys to pick up this book. It's by Dr. Sean and his wife Nicole. Also our debut album, Heaven Here and Now, is available on iTunes and Spotify right now.
Anywhere else digital music is sold. Ooh, what if we released an Alvin and the Chipmunks version of Heaven Here and Now? Ooh.
You said daily Alvin and everything. We got to get really good with our, with our tight harmonies. Yeah.
Yeah. We got to, we got to work on that. Make sure you guys join us the rest of the week. We got a great list of shows planned for you guys. We love you. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today. We'll see you next time.
