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Fun fact, no. I have to make my own with McDonald's Sprite, and you guessed it, Texas Pete. I am genuinely horrified to hear that.
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Where's my Mountain Dew? You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abaddon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.
I'm John Galantis. You can find us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearViewTodayShow.com. That's right, and you guys can help us keep the conversation moving forward by supporting the show. You can share it online with your friends and family. Leave us a good five-star view on iTunes or Spotify, anywhere you get your podcasting content from.
We're going to leave a couple of links right there in the description so you can do just that. Absolutely nothing less than five stars. That's just what I look forward to, man. It makes you happy. It's just like perfecting. It's like getting all the achievements in a video game, man. You see those five stars and you're like, I did it.
I can finally rest. Speaking of video games, I have a question for you. I know that you are, like me, you're a video game guy.
You enjoy playing video games. Not a lot of time after kids. I was just about to say, I wish I had time to actually play. Not a lot of time after kids. What is your go-to... Let's say you had a busy day, stressful day, lots of things here, there, everywhere.
I feel like you haven't had a chance to catch your breath. You go home, you're like, man, I don't have any responsibilities for a little bit. I just want to kind of unwind with a little video game action. What are you playing? So it depends on like now, like today?
It depends on the season in my life that you asked me. Give me both. A few years ago, it would have been like probably Mass Effect, like probably something goal related, goal oriented, side quest oriented, something where I'm like, I got to get this done. I just got to get this done.
Now that stuff here at the church has picked up, the new building is getting close to completion. I've got kids. I don't want to be checking off any more checklists.
I just want to... So probably it would be right now I'm playing Mario vs. Donkey Kong, which is like a little puzzle game, but Gavin really loves it. And I'm just going more and more back to the Nintendo games because there are no achievements.
There are no checklists of things that you got to get done. You just jumped the mushroom and it's fun. And that's about it. So I am kind of the opposite of that. And I clocked this about myself. Within the past few weeks or so, I was like, man, I really want to just kind of like relax, unwind for a little bit. I got a little bit of time for, you know, it's time to go ahead and head toward bed. I want to play a game.
But I can have like the busiest, most hectic day just making phone calls and make sure this gets done and doing this and doing that. And I get home and the game that I go for is like super in-depth RPGs, side quests, like make sure you get this done, this goal, this, you got to get exactly right here. I have no idea.
I have no clue. I don't know why. But for some reason, like when I clock out and want to kind of like, you know, just do a mindless activity for a little bit, it's the most complex convoluted video game.
That is weird to me because that's something like on a bored day, on a boring day when you got nothing to do, that's the perfect game. Because it's like, I've got stuff to do. I'm busy. I've got to go over here to the Citadel and I've got to talk to this ambassador about finding this missing data chip. But I can't do it because I don't have the, I don't have the VIP key to get into the Citadel. So I got to take it to this planet and meet up with these people, have that conversation, choose the right dialogue options, get that VIP key, go back here. Now I've got a random encounter with these aliens I have to fight. But I can't fight them because I don't have the right armor upgrade. So I got to go back to the Citadel. Go back to the Citadel.
Now that unlocks another side quest that I have to go craft this armor. Yeah. That's my jam. I don't know.
I don't know. But not after a real busy day. On a real busy day, I just want to jump turtles. For me, that's like, that's like the unplug activities.
Jeez. Crash Bandicoot is real good for that too. Crash Bandicoot is good for that. Where you just, you just don't think you just jump.
Like linear jumping level. I don't know. I don't know why. I don't know if it's because my brain has been in like in, in gear, like on, like on go. That's the relaxation. I don't know.
I don't know what it is, but I thought about that the other day. I was like, why am I doing this to myself? To me, those games, I like those games on slow days because it feels like work.
And that's the reason I don't like them after busy days is because a lot of games these days feel like work, which if you're bored and you have no life and you have, you're not doing anything, you can turn that game off and be like, I got a lot accomplished today. How are y'all enjoying your stinking galaxy? Yeah. I saved it. You're welcome for that. I guess for me, it's just like the, I just enjoy the story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like just to be able to kind of sit with that story, even if I'm actively participating in the story, just be able to sit with that story.
That's the, that's the relaxation activity for me. I guess so. There are different types of gamers out there, people. Y'all didn't know that. Y'all thought it was all just mashing buttons and flashing lights, but man, it's, there's some psychology behind it.
Maybe we could talk about that another time. Video gamers, write in and let us know what is your go-to after a stressful day. You want to unwind, get a little bit of time for video games. Write in and let us know what you'd be playing. 2-5-2-5-8-2.
Especially if you've got kids because I want to know where you're finding that time. 2-5-2-5-8-2-5-0-2-8 or you can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. We'll be back after this. Hey Ryan. Hey John. Hey man. I'm having an awesome time doing the Clear View Today show with you.
Thanks man. And I hope people are having an awesome time listening to it. Well listen, I think our listeners would actually be interested to know that Clear View Today is not the only podcast we produce. Oh, do go on.
Oh, well go ahead and stop what you're doing right now. Mosey on over to your podcast app and subscribe to Sermons by Abaddon Shah, PhD. As many of you know, Dr. Shah is our lead pastor here at Clear View Church. And every single week, he preaches expository messages that challenge and inspire us to live godly lives. One of our core values at Clear View Church is that we're a Bible-believing church, which means that every single sermon is coming directly from the text. And it's great because whether you're driving, cleaning the house, working out, whatever you're doing, you're listening and receiving timeless biblical truth. And God works through every sermon differently, which means you're always going to get something new. Sometimes it'll be conviction, sometimes it'll be encouragement.
That's right. And you guys can check out Sermons by Abaddon Shah, PhD, on the Apple Podcast app. You can find it on our website as well. That's ClearViewBC.org. You can even read the transcripts of every message on Dr. Shah's website. That's AbaddonShah.com. Love it. Jon, you ready to hop back in? Let's do it. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abaddon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.
You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. That's right. And we're here once again in the Clear View Today studio with Dr. Abaddon Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, the host of today's show. He's got over 300,000 gamer score on Xbox Marketplace. Unbelievable. Dr. Shah, how have you been getting these achievements, my friend?
I'm seeing achievements pop up on my phone left and right. What was the last game that you really got into that you were really, really, really passionate about? Last game I really enjoyed playing? So I enjoyed Metal Gear Solid.
Man after my own heart. Yeah, I enjoyed that. But I would say Mario Kart on 64, I think. Yeah, Mario Kart 64 is a great one. Metal Gear Solid, see, this is what we were talking about. Metal Gear Solid was back in that day where there wasn't all these achievements.
It was a linear story, didn't have all these side quests. It was fun. That was a fun game. And games just ain't fun nowadays. Everything has shifted to an open world concept, which is great.
I love it. I mean, you kind of go wherever you want to, make your own path, make your own way. But it also can be very overwhelming. Well, it's kind of funny because right before we started, I was talking about it, I was like, yeah, so we're going to talk about this. This is what we talked about in the intro. And Nicholas was like, you didn't play Red Dead 2?
I was like, that's exactly what I'm talking about. That is one of the most open, meandering side questy games out there. That is not fun. What do you want to do next?
Whatever you want. Now, that's what I said. If on a boring, rainy day when you got nothing going on, well, yeah, those are those are fun games.
But who does that anymore? Yeah, but I've watched Nicholas play Red Dead and it's crazy watching the terrain. I'm like, I wish I could just snap my finger like this and be in the game. It looks unbelievable.
Unbelievable. It's immersive. It's immersive. Those rock star games.
For those who don't know, this is not like some weird, crazy game. It's the West. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. It's countless. The verse of the day today is coming to us from Luke chapter 10, verse 2. Then he said to them, the harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few. Therefore, pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest. Dr. Shaw, I know that's that's a prayer that is on your heart all the time is just give give us bring us the people to to make this harvest actually happen. And he has. God has sent so many people. And this was a prayer that we prayed, I would say at least 20 years ago.
God sent more hands. I there are certain gifts I have. I can talk to people about Christ, but it's not I'm not always comfortable because I am sometimes I'm outside my comfort zone. People who I don't know, I don't interact with on a regular basis.
Very little we have in common. So I need people who can meet people where they are and like a mechanic. I can talk to them. I can talk to them. But then after a certain point, it's like, what else can I say about it?
About something I do not know about under the hood or sports. When we first came to North Carolina, it was like basketball country. Oh, yeah.
Yes, that's true. In Georgia was football or race cars. I knew about race cars because I've worked with a guy and our friends with some. So I knew about race cars, football. Not as much because we were in Toccoa. Not many football teams. Yeah.
And then come here by basketball. Yeah. What's your team? What's your team? Yeah.
I don't know. You better pick the right team too. Yeah. You don't really have that over over football.
Like they definitely have they definitely have like, you know, I like my team and I like my but basketball is where it's really. So I didn't have much in common. So I said, God sent people who can actually communicate with people, whether it's sports or occupation or or military. I don't have military experience.
How do I communicate with them? Right. So I prayed for that. God sent more people. And now if you look across our congregation on any typical morning, or our evening for that matter, you will see people from all walks of life.
Yes. We have nurses, we have EMTs, we have police officers, we have business people, we have engineers, we have sales, we have teachers, we have government workers, city officials. I mean, it's like, that's what we prayed for. It really is beautiful to see, you know, such a diverse collection of people.
And all here gathered united and focused on the same thing. That's right. Exciting.
That's right. I love it. I love it. Ladies and gentlemen, it's time for the Clear View Current, where we cut through the chaos of today's headlines with a clear Christian perspective. We're here to keep you up to date on what's going on in the world, big or small. You know, there's a Texas pastor who was known for fiery preaching and he was he appeared a lot alongside John MacArthur, but he's been removed from ministry after an alleged inappropriate relationship with an unidentified woman. Of course, this is we're talking about Steve Lawson. Yeah. You know, that news broke a little bit last week and people have been falling out over it.
People, I know there's a lot of people in Trinity Bible Church. The elders are stressing discipline after his removal and all this stuff. And we've talked about this stuff a lot on the show and we wanted to kind of take a different approach from it for it today because we wanted to talk about, you know, what we typically will talk about, you know, why does this keep happening?
How is this getting more and more rampant? And we can only have that conversation so many times, you know what I mean? But there's other conversations. And I think, Ryan, you brought up a great point is like, what do we learn from this?
Yeah. What other than just saying this should never have happened? This was wrong.
This is sad. Like, what do we actually learn from it? It feels like it gets to a point where it's like, OK, here's another one. OK, here's another one. OK, here's another one. And, you know, we can we can keep the same old rhetoric like that shouldn't have happened.
And that's true. But how do we move forward? What what do we as believers, how do we process this? Especially I'm thinking about those who are growing up in a culture that is very antagonistic towards Christianity. I mean, this is going to be another sort of weapon used against us.
Like, look, another one has fallen a bunch of hypocrites. Right. Talking about what can we learn? I think we have to go back to the drawing board and ask ourselves the question, are we implementing certain systems or ideas or principles? And then stamping them with because it's in the Bible and thinking that that system, principle, idea, concept, whatever it is, is actually biblical and it should work.
And then it's not working. And then we're we're sort of like at a loss. And a lot of people are confused, like, where are you going with this?
The big word, the big word is accountability. And it seems like everything that people say is when, you know, you have to appoint elders in your church because when you've got elders in your church, then you've got a group of people around you, a group of men, godly men there to keep you accountable. And it seems to me like every single one of the yeah. Yeah. Every single one of these stories that comes out, every single one, there's a response from one of the elders. I mean, there's elders there. Yeah. My question is like, what were you doing?
What happened? So at what point did the elders start becoming accountable? Yeah, right. Well, the problem is, what if this whole idea of accountability of this elder rule itself is flawed? What if what if you're looking to the wrong place to find integrity?
What you're saying is at the heart of this whole idea that I got to have a group of people around me to hold me accountable is like, as long as you are watching over me, I'm not going to mess up. But if y'all ain't there, I might. I might.
I might. It seems like, I mean, I'm going back to elementary school and the scientific method testing a hypothesis in place and you test it and it is proven to not be effective. Then you go back and you change the original premise. Like the original premise was faulty. Yeah. Very interestingly, a lot of these who are coming out right now with messing up and losing their their their moral integrity are coming from elder rule churches.
What is happening there? I would say I would say almost every single one. Right. I mean, I can't. There are some who are not. OK. I don't know what they're coming from. Yeah.
I was going to say I can't think of any that have come out that haven't been from elder rule. And yet this is always the this is the what you call it, the template that people espouse. Right. But if you had this, this wouldn't happen. But it seems to be at a certain point, we have to say, like, OK, it's clearly not the key to success here because it's not working. It's not working. And what if it's not in the Bible? Right.
I know right now, a lot of you are just like they perked up, you know, they spewed out the coffee in their mouth all over the windshield. Like, what? What do you mean?
Show me some verses on accountability that are often used to say this is why you need it. So I decided to do a Google search. I did one over here and I did one on my iPad. Unfortunately, this sync.
So I kind of had to say, no, stop syncing. I pulled up two different sites. Right. Scriptures on accountability. And the other one is verses on accountability. Just Google search.
Nothing special. No book on accountability. Just these searches. So I came up with a few verses. First one here is Romans, chapter 14, verse 12.
If you can be, like, quick to open them. Yeah, you get that. Let's read them. So first one is, and John, if you want to find James 5 16. Got it.
14 12. Yes. Romans 14 12. So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Oh, not to the accounts of elders.
Yeah. OK, James 5 16. Confess your trespasses to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed. The effective fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. Is that about accountability or about prayer? Yes, prayer.
OK, the effective fervent prayer. All right, James 4 17. Ryan, John, First Thessalonians 5 11. First.
OK, got it. James 4 17. Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it to him, it is sin.
What's the next one? First Thessalonians 5 11. Therefore, encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. Is that accountability or is it like encouragement? Encouragement.
All right. Next one is 2 Corinthians 5 10. John Matthew 12 36. 2 Corinthians 5 10. For we must all appear before the judgment see of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in his body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Matthew 12 36. But I tell you that everyone will have to give a count on the day of judgment for every empty word that they have spoken. All right. Proverbs 27 17.
Ryan and John. Matthew 18 15 through 17. 2017 through 17.
Let's do it. 17. As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. Is that really about accountability or is like, Hey, I'm going to help you be the best you can be. Right.
It's building him up and encouraging him. Right. Okay.
All right. How about Matthew 18 15 to 17? If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church.
And if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Here's the question. Is that really about accountability and ministry or is it really about somebody in the body of Christ sins against you? Right. I can go on and on and let me go a little further in because it may seem like, Oh, you're just picking accountability versus.
Let me go further in. Let's go to Hebrews 4 13. John and Ryan, if you would take Proverbs 28 13. Hebrews 4 13 says, Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight.
Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Proverbs 28 13. He who covers his sins will not prosper, but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy. Alright, James 5.
Let's go back to James for a quick second. John verses 19 through 20. And then Ryan, if you would take Galatians 6 one and two says, My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this, whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way, they will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins. Yeah, I would hate to say that to you guys. If you think that's the verse, the person's already gone off the edge.
This is to bring them back so there won't be more sin and more condemnation. So it's not really accountable. It didn't work out at that point. Right. Alright.
Galatians 6 one and two brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restores such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted, bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Right. I mean, this is not about a group of people keeping each other accountable. So the question comes back to how do we do that then?
Because we think the system is going to hold it. The system comes from a lack of trust in leadership, which is coming from a response or a reaction against Catholicism. Yeah, that's a good point. Right. This against Roman Catholicism, the response that how can this one man sit up there and be called a pope, which means papa, and tell us how to do things.
And he has these cardinals under him and blah, blah, blah. We're going to make sure we don't go to that system. Hence, we're going to have plurality of leadership. Yeah.
Okay, well, do it. Well, that's the way we're supposed to be. Well, when you go to any of these churches that have this plurality of elders and plurality of leaders, it's always that one who is the shining star. Yeah.
So what is really happening there? And is that even true when they said that's the way it was supposed to be? No, it's not true. I was going to say like, like they always point back to the early church into the Bible, but there was never any, I mean, I don't see any mention of, I see mention of like pastors and leaders of that church, but I never see like, Hey, this group of guys held each other accountable and held each other when they messed up. They always mentioned the church and the leader of that church. Right. I think it's, again, I'm not asking for a dictatorial rule or whatever. What I'm saying here is if you want to get back to the heart of accountability is if that person does not fear God and the judgment to come one day and the consequences of your sin on your family, on your church body, on your staff, on the testimony before the lost world, no amount of five guys sitting across from you and saying, what did you watch this week?
So how was this week? Yeah. It's going to do that. That's true. That's true. There's a, there's a great book we read and I, I think it's Jim Collins. I think it's what is that? Oh man. Creative followership, I think.
But he talks about that. You got to pick your boss. You got to pick your leader. And if you, if you feel like, Hey, I really love this church, but the pastor or the leader of this church is not a man of integrity. Like you said, there's no way that I'm going to, or a group of guys is going to make that person be a man of integrity. They can, they, I can't get to the truth of that man's heart.
They may be talented, but that does not mean they're a person of integrity. Right? Yeah. Right. If I'm not, if I'm not conscientious enough that the God of the universe is disapproving of my actions, I'm going to lie to a team of people sitting there.
Who already look at me like a look at that person as if like you are the reason for all our success. So we're going to just make sure we are the hedge of protection. You really need a hedge of protection around you. Right. Right. Yeah. That's a good example of how traditions have become, become sacred for some people.
I mean, it's elevated to the place of scripture when in reality that's never outlined in the Bible. It's like we're expecting to implement what a parent should do with their child with a grown man. True.
Like a mom and dad are to watch over little Gavin or little Holden to make sure they don't do anything dumb or run out the road and out the door into the street. Right. Well, that's what a parent is supposed to do. You're expecting to parent one of the elders?
Yeah. Or the pastor of your church. It's a sad testimony. I mean, even then that's what, that's the word they use. It's funny that you say that because the headline is Trinity Bible Church elders stress discipline. They're going to discipline this guy. They're going to give this guy a whooping. I mean, look, I know that's not what it's saying and I get this is a serious thing, but at the same time it does kind of point out the flaw.
Like even the terminology, the nomenclature is the same. It's we're having to babysit and parent our pastor. And if that's the model, if we have to, if he requires that much supervision, do you really want him as your leader? Do you really want to be set up in a church that you've got to constantly watch over and hover over and babysit and scrutinize every move? We trust the guy is the Satan. So you're, you're going to stand against Satan for this guy, right? Good point. My, my suggestion is yes, we need to be together because Satan is, has more trepidation when we are in fellowship rather than when we're isolated.
Okay. That's, that's given to all of us, right? To live in the body of Christ. And there are scriptures for that, but to think that a leader can be sorta kept in line by other group of people, that person will find a way to sin. So, so I'm, I'm reading this, I'm reading this article now and this is actually coming from one of the elders. This is a direct quote from him.
I'm not making this up. Just like parents discipline their children out of love and concern for their wellbeing. The Lord disciplines his children because he loves them and wants what's best for them. So what do I got elders for?
You're, you're, you're all, all, you're all undermining your own position. What is the, is the Lord going to discipline through you, through this man? Is that what elders are there for? I mean, I'm asking because we don't, we don't do this at Clearview Church. We don't have this set up.
You know, we don't have it where there's an elder rule. There's the pastor, there's this pastoral staff, and then there's the congregation. There is accountability, but in three areas. Number one is financial. Second is sexual or marital.
And the third is doctrinal. Financial accountability. We don't handle the money. We have a finance team. We have a CPA.
All that happens there. That's accountability. Secondly, sexual accountability. How in the world can any of them hold anybody accountable when you are not in front of them all day? The only person who can hold that person accountable is his own wife. If he's lying to her, if he's doing all these things behind her back, I mean, that's a bigger problem there.
And if he's lying to his wife, don't you think he's going to lie to a group of elders, a group of guys sitting across from him? Great point. Give him applause for that. Oh yeah, let me get that.
I'm a little slow with myself. Hey, there you go around here. I'll give you that too.
Thank you so much. He's going to lie to y'all, man. He's going to lie to y'all. And then doctrinal accountability.
Where does that go? So we're going to have a bunch of, but the average person is not going to be able to do that. But they can tell when you're preaching the truth. They can tell when you're mincing words.
So doctrinal accountability to me is the church body. How do you know that you have gone off the deep end? They'll stop coming. You will see the discontent. You will see life go out of them. You will see people going, I don't know. I don't get this.
This is something new and weird. Maybe I need to check out another church. And that's at that point, the church has to decide, should we keep this guy or does he need to go? And I think as well, you can tell, that's a great, great point. I think as well, you can tell when you have people who are staying for years and years, who are not only coming in, because I mean, you've got people who have these huge mega churches, but I bet you there's a constant rotation of people who are coming in for the first time, seeing that it's not the truth.
And over the course of a few months leave. But then when you've got a church like this, where people have been here for 20, 30 years and they know they're raising their families, they're having kids here, they know that it's the truth and God's blessing it because of that. So those three levels of accountability, financial, sexual and doctrinal, that's it. Financial, make sure we have a separate entity that handles money, a CPA that handles the audits.
Sexual, that has to be with that person and his wife, right? I mean, that has to be, or even the staff I was in a sense are like, we're keeping an eye on each other. And then doctrinal, that's the congregation. And we have the statement of faith. You can read it any time and see if the preaching is deviating from there to go away. I think now we're preaching sinless perfection, or I think we're teaching annihilationism, or I think we're teaching some preterist doctrine.
I mean, you can tell something is not right, or we're teaching universalism and the system itself is flawed. We need to go back to, does that man really understand the holiness of God? Does he really understand the judgment that is coming?
Does he understand the accountability that he has in a sense to his congregation, to his wife, his kids? Like, I did this to you. I just completely demoralized you. I may cause some of you to question your faith for the rest of your life. I may cause some of you to no longer desire to be saved. I'm going to be a stumbling block for the lost person to come to Christ and how terrible that is. If he doesn't feel that, then no amount of elders is going to change. You can put a thousand people around him 24-7.
He'll still find a way. 100%. So important for us in clarifying terms and talking about how accountability works and how it doesn't work and how to apply to church leadership. If you enjoyed today's episode, write in and let us know, 252-582-5028, or you can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. Don't forget, you can partner with us financially on that same website. Scroll to the bottom, click that donate button and let us know it's coming from our Clearview Today Show family. Lots of great content coming your way the rest of this week. Make sure you guys tune in. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
