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Stress, Trauma, & PTSD

Clearview Today / Abidan Shah
The Truth Network Radio
May 7, 2024 12:00 pm

Stress, Trauma, & PTSD

Clearview Today / Abidan Shah

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May 7, 2024 12:00 pm

In this episode of Clearview Today, Dr. Shah talks about the difference between stress and trauma. He also talks about Paul’s struggles and how, even though he could be diagnosed with PTSD, he didn’t allow them to define his life.

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That's MightyMuscadine.com and use that promo code T-O-D-A-Y. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. You can find our show online by visiting ClearviewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text, 252-582-5028. Or you can email us at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com.

That's right. We want to help you help us keep the conversation going by supporting the show. You can do that by sharing it online with your friends and your family. Leave us a good review on iTunes or Spotify. Absolutely nothing less than five stars for any reason conceivable. I will find you. I will find you and I will scold you dreadfully. You leave a four star review. Scold you dreadfully.

I dare you to do it. Today's verse of the day is coming to us from 2 Corinthians 5-7. It says, For we walk by faith, not by sight. Do you ever hear that old song, I'm dating myself here, the, You are the way, the truth and the life, we live by faith and not by sight.

No. We're living all for you. David knows what I'm talking about. You know it? Yeah, it's the, it's the, Who sings that?

You are the way, the truth and the life, we live by faith. Yeah, you did the, the, Hey Mr. Knickerbocker. Yeah, yeah.

But it's a Christian song. Does he bopity bop with his hands? No, no. Don't do that part.

What about with his face? No. It's Hillsong, Young and Free, I think. Hillsong, Young and Free. No, I never heard it.

Love that song. But I mean, we walk by faith, not by sight. Sometimes you have to step out in faith, trusting that God is going to direct your steps.

And that is scary to someone like me who likes to see three or four or five steps in advance. Right. But sometimes you have to step out and trust that God is going to lead you where you need to be and step out being obedient.

People get messed up on like, I'm waiting for God to direct my neck. Right, right. Well, God's not going to pick you up by the ankle and put your foot down in the next step.

Right. You have to step out in trusting that you are in obedience to God, that you are prayed up, that you are doing your devotions, and trust that that next step is going to be where God wants you. And it's not blind either. It's not blind faith or blind obedience. Like I'm just stepping out in the dark and if I fail, I fail. Yeah. If I'm destroyed, I'm destroyed.

It's on God's hands and not mine. It's like my dad. Like my dad has worked 60 something years in construction, right? And so he just builds stuff all the time.

And he built the house that we're living in. So if I ask him like, hey dad, how do I nail these two boards together? He's like, hey, you just put the nail in, you just hammer. I'm like, okay, I'm just going to trust you. But if I mess up, it's like, no, he knows what he's talking about.

Right. And it's the same with God. Like he's proven himself faithful time and time and time again. So when he says, hey, I want you to do this, I don't have to be like, all right, God, I'm going out in faith here. Like you should know that God has your best intentions for you. That's right. Especially if you're in the Word, if you're praying, if you commune with him daily like we should be doing, then it's not going to be, your faith will come easier. Yeah, that's absolutely right.

If these verses are helpful for you guys, it's great to start your day with God's Word. Yes. And one of the great resources that we know of that we use is the Date the Word app. It's available for free for both Android and iPhone. It's one of the partial sponsors of this show. Yes.

And I encourage you guys to download that. It brings God's Word directly to you. Every single day connects today's date with God's Word with the hope of making it more memorable for you. There are some things that we really got to get off our chest today.

Yes. And today's segment, I think, is going to really, really help with that because it's been a wild couple of weeks. You know, we had a play recently. We've been talking about it a little bit, having to rely on technology. And, you know, as far as that goes, everything's super smooth.

But in rehearsals and then trying to get everything back to normal, we've started to run into that. Well, you know what? Why don't I let you take it? Because this is your segment.

Yeah. Well, let's introduce everybody first. Welcome to the gripe vine. Here is my gripe fresh off the vine today. The gripe vine, for those of you who are tuning in, is the segment where we just get to gripe. We get to spill the tea a little bit.

You know, Christians, we're discouraged for gossiping. Unless you have a radio show, then you can gripe all you want. Yeah.

They pay you for it. And I'm not talking about someone rather than some thing. Sure.

This is more of a... Several some things. Yeah, yeah. I absolutely cannot stand hate, loathe, despise entirely when technology doesn't work and then it does work, but you don't understand why. Like, if I had gone in and fixed something and then the problem is resolved, great. Love that for me.

It's resolved and we're going to move forward. But if we have a problem and I'm trying to figure out what's going on and then suddenly the problem is resolved, I hate that. If you work with like pro presenter or if you're like a worship pastor or just on the worship team, tech team in a church, anything, you know that this happens so stinking often where like we'll have... You'll have like a guitar cable, right? And you'll plug it in and you'll have that 60 cycle... And you're like, oh, what is that? Get a different cable. You get a different cable. It's like... And you're like, oh, why is that happening?

Get a brand new one out of the package. And then you pull it out and it's like... And then somehow you take that first one in, put it back in. No problem. Now it's fine.

No problem. But why? Who knows? So it's like, well, should we throw it away? This cable was buzzing, but now it's not. It's like, well, I don't know. I don't know if it's going to cause a problem again. Is it going to buzz again? Maybe. Yeah.

Same thing with pro presenter. Like you'll do updates and stuff and then backgrounds won't be happening. I feel like... This is kind of crazy, but I feel like we should talk about, maybe not on this show, but the white line. Oh, the white line.

The mysterious... Oh, the white line. Go ahead and talk about it. Wait.

Before you do. Did you ever get that solved? No. It's still there. White line. Yeah.

I never saw the white line. We'll have to talk about it on another topic. This is a whole other gripe. That's a whole other gripe.

Yeah. I can't stand that. We had an issue with this in the play. There was a microphone issue where there was a mic that cut out and we were still getting signal at the board. We have no idea why it cut out and then it came back to life and to this day we don't know what went wrong. And you can't prevent it from happening again. It can and more than likely will happen again and so then you have to answer for it, but then it's like, I don't know. I don't have an answer and I don't know how to prevent it from happening again because I don't know what was wrong in the first place.

That's the one thing is because when you try to tell people, you try to explain, they're like, all right, what can we do to prevent this from happening? And you're like, I cannot tell you. I wish I knew.

I wish I had the answer for you. It's like, should we get a new cable? It's like, no, that didn't seem to be the problem. Should we just get a new microphone?

No, the microphone works. I don't know why, but it does. I have no idea. I don't have an answer for you.

That's my gripe. Write in and let us know if you've encountered similar issues. If you're on it in an AV style profession or if you're on that tech team at your church, write in and gripe alongside us. You know, Misery Loves Company, 252-582-5028 or you can visit us online at cleerviewtodayshow.com.

We'll be back after this. Hello, Clearview family. I'm Nicole.

And I'm David. And we want to talk to you today about the Clearview app. You know, there are so many churches out there that put their sermons on YouTube and their announcements on Facebook and their prayer list on Periscope.

I didn't even know Periscope was still functional. Oh, it's not. And that's why nobody can find their church's prayer list and nobody's prayers be getting answered. But here at Clearview, we believe in making our content as accessible as possible. That's right. Clearview produces so much content every single week, including Dr. Shah's sermons, original music, a full online store, weekly prayer gatherings, and so much more. Not to mention the number one best selling Christian talk show of all time.

I don't know if that's accurate. Well, maybe not yet, but that's why we want people to download the app. If you're listening from the Triangle area, we encourage you to check out Clearview Church in person. But if not, you can still follow all of our content on the Clearview app.

It's 100% free on the Apple Store and Google Play Store. And best of all, all of our content is right there in one convenient spot. Make sure you download the Clearview app today, and let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028. That's right. We're here in the Clearview Today studio with Dr. Abbadan Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism. Dr. Shah, this is a very technologically savvy place. Yes, it is.

A lot of people don't know that about this little small-town church in North Carolina, but in this little place, there's technology just, can I just say, busting out the wazoo? Is that okay to say? I think it's okay, but we may have to go back and clean it up later. It's like, I think it's okay, but cool.

I think it's fine, but maybe don't say it again. Yeah, but cool it. You know, there's one of the things about dealing with technology, and we talked about this a little bit on the intro, is that sometimes it just doesn't work. And so it's like, okay, I have to, and this is something even you taught me, I have to stay on this. Yeah.

I have to figure out why this is not working. Right. What bothers us is, it will just start working again, but I didn't fix it. Right. Yeah.

It's just like, I don't know. For some reason, the problem is resolved. You can't recreate the problem, even though you have all the same variables. It's restarted. Yeah.

I don't know what, I don't know what changed, I don't know what happened, and I don't know why it got fixed, which means I can't prevent it from happening in the future. Exactly. So that's what we were saying is like, most people like, they're like, okay, whew, good, it's solved.

It's not solved. No. Because now I don't know when it'll happen again. Right. Yeah.

And when it does happen again, I'm just as dead in the water as I already was. That's right. I love technology. So that's my thing. I love technology. Always have, especially growing up in India with a dad who always was like looking for the cutting edge for technology, like we were the first ones in our church to have an overhead projector.

Yeah. Overhead projector did not even exist in our town of 200 to 300,000 people. Wow. Our church had an overhead projector. The date is 19, maybe 1980.

Wow. Yeah, maybe 1979, 1980, somewhere there. I mean, I was very young. I was maybe eight years old.

So I was born in 73, eight years would be, yeah, 80, 81, somewhere there. And I remember this projector coming and then my dad and my brother decided to open it. Open it and you have to insert the bulb, because it's coming from Germany, so you have to get the bulb and take it out of this package and everything is done with like utmost care and slow motion. But the problem is opening this lid where the bulb goes and then there's a reflection that goes up and then it projects, right?

Couldn't open it. Oh no. And we're just, we're all like standing there.

I remember this, this entire thing happening and a lot of frustrations and screwdrivers are used very carefully. Be careful. Was your dad standing over you watching you like, you got to be careful? I'm not doing anything. I'm a seven, eight year old.

I got you. So I'm like standing to the side. Don't get in the way. Who was putting this together?

This was my dad and my brother. Okay. And then finally, it was my brother who was like, oh wait, it's not like righty tighty lefty loosey. Yeah.

It was righty loosey. That's German. So it's like, yeah. Everything's backwards. Come on y'all.

You have German heritage. That's why I can say that. Yeah. And it was just like, oh, there it is.

And so open it up. And I remember my dad using it Sunday night, every Sunday night. What was it like? You know, like, like you spend like a whole day getting it together. What was it like seeing him use it for the first time?

Like you see him right. And it's up there on the wall. I bet that was the coolest thing. Oh, it was crazy. It was, it was excitement.

It was like, yeah, David just sent me a picture of this. This is it. This is the, is it the same company too? Is this a bull? Bull probably. Yeah. This is it. This is exactly what it looked like. Wow. That's it. That's it right there. Exactly what it looked like. Insane. I remember those.

I remember that my pre-algebra and then algebra teacher, that's how he taught, was writing on the projector, the overhead projector with the dry erase marker, and it would show up on the wall. Yeah, yeah. Ellie and I are part of a group on Facebook that's like church media and sound tech. And basically, I think like every Friday is N.G.D. 's new gear day, and everybody just shows off their new gear. Look at all the cool stuff we just got. But imagine like, like you said, being in the 80s. You've never seen anything like this before. Early 80s. I'm talking about 1979, 1980. Yeah.

It's like someone was writing on a piece of paper and it shows up on the wall. Yeah. Like that's insane. Yeah. Now the movie industry in India has been around for a long time.

Like, I mean, when I say long time, you're talking about 1890s. Wow. Is when movie industry began in India.

That's crazy. Older than Hollywood. Yeah.

People think Bollywood is just, you know, new kid on the block. Yeah. Keep in mind the British were in India, so they brought the technology there. True. Yeah.

So movies were being made in Bombay before movies were being made in Hollywood. Wow. That's a great point. Yeah. So technology was there.

It's just having this as a technology was the first. And then there were times that it wouldn't work, like the bolt would go out. Not fun. Nobody's having a good time at that point.

Nobody's having a good time. Lest anybody be exalted above measure, something's got to go wrong with your tax dollars. Something's got to happen.

That's the rule. As long as there's been technology, there have been technological problems. Oh yeah.

Technological thorns, if you will. Yeah. It's always going to happen. That was a very nice segue. Very good job.

Thank you. We're continuing today's conversation based on what we talked about yesterday. We began this conversation as part of a much larger discussion over the past several episodes about suffering, about trauma, about how do we navigate these difficult moments in life.

And we began talking yesterday about Paul, where he talks about his thorn in the flesh. We want to pick up that conversation today. So in light of that, Dr. Shaw, what's the daily encouragement today for listeners and viewers?

Get the latest technology. There you go. You can.

And be on top of it. That's right. Yes.

Yes. It does not substitute the message. It does not substitute hard work. But it will help you propel the message. So when I say get the best technology so that you can grow in your spiritual life.

That's right. So if you have trouble taking a Bible everywhere you go, get a great Bible app. If you have trouble listening to messages because you travel or whatever, download the ClearV app. You can listen to sermons. So that's what I mean when I say get the best technology.

Well, I think that's even a reflection of Paul's heart. Just do what it takes to get the message to as many people as possible. Win those souls. And if it means that I'm going to suffer a little bit for it or if it means I'm going to have to learn about new technology, I'm going to have to push myself, stretch myself, then that's what it's going to take. That's right.

Absolutely. Well, today we're sort of going one step further because we talked about Paul's thorn in the flesh. We all have this thing that God puts in us. It's not him causing the pain, the thorn was the messenger of Satan and he was sent to buffet him to keep him humble. And Paul pleaded, as we read in 2 Corinthians 12, he pleaded with the Lord that he would remove it. And the answer came back, no, but my grace is sufficient for you for my strength is made perfect in weakness. And then Paul concludes, if that is the purpose behind that thorn, then most gladly I will boast in my infirmities so that the power of Christ may rest upon me for when I am weak, then I am strong. What a great conclusion. What a great recasting.

And I want to talk about the recasting part of things. But before we do that, there are people who struggle with thorns in their lives. And it goes beyond just a stressful situation or a problem in their life, it even reaches a level of what we call today PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. And that's a trigger word for people today because, and maybe not a trigger word, but that's like a badge of honor that people wear. And it's an odd thing and I seem to have missed the boat on it because I don't see the appeal. And I think there's a lot of people who are listening to us who are kind of in our camp that don't see the appeal of it. But there certainly is. There certainly is an appeal to being traumatized, to being damaged, to being broken goods.

You know what I mean? Well, think about, I mean, any of the popular literature or movies or any media elements. You usually have the main character who has endured some kind of trauma, some sort of emotional heartache, some sort of, you know, physical malady, something that he or she has had to go through. They're always an orphan.

No parents. Yeah, I mean, the most memorable ones are. They have some sort of difficulty to overcome and people just latch onto that. They love that idea of the tortured hero. And it sells great media, but I think we've internalized that to where we want that badge as well. I think we even, yeah.

We talked about that. Like, art imitates life until life eventually imitates art. Now people think that's how, you know, everybody's got to be the Harry Potter, the Luke Skywalker, the chosen one with all the maladies and all the past trauma that they have to overcome. And it's also generational. When you said it doesn't appeal to you because you're a millennial. Millennials are strong and millennials are successful and millennials are sort of the center of attention.

Generation Z, on the other hand, are more subdued and they are more prone to being hurt or feel weak or feel oppressed, those kind of things. And then, of course, COVID-19 came on top of that and that really fueled that sentiment of we're together suffering and we all have our trauma and we all need therapy. And one of the things we've addressed throughout this series is that, yes, there is something called trauma and it is horrible, it's terrible, and it does happen.

Today I want to kind of delve into that a little bit. But there's a difference between stress and trauma. Very much. Big difference.

Very much. So you may be stressed out, but it doesn't mean that you're traumatized. And if you're traumatized, maybe it's coming from a stress, but it doesn't have to be. Now Kenneth Jones, who is a Vietnam veteran, he is an advocate, he is sort of a counselor, but not a clinician. He said these words, he has a blog and he said this. He said, thinking that the apostle Paul suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder-like conditions is a safe conclusion when you consider that he faced over 10 life-threatening encounters in his life as he himself testified in the scriptures. So of course he's talking to soldiers. He's talking to combat-induced PTSD soldiers. And he says, the apostle Paul at least had 10 life-threatening encounters, which more than likely says that he was PTSD. This is a scholar, by the way. This is Dr. Peter Yuichi Clark.

He unfortunately died in 2019, I believe, with cancer. But he wrote an article titled, Toward a Pastoral Reading of Second Corinthians as a Memoir of PTSD and Healing. And in this article, which is a great article, by the way, he uses the lens of psychology to read Second Corinthians. And again, he comes to the same conclusion as Kenneth Jones, who is not a psychologist, but he is somebody who was a veteran. And he works with people who have been diagnosed with PTSD in the same conclusion, which is Paul more than likely, right?

We don't know for sure. There was no psychology like today's psychology back then. There was no- Nobody to diagnose him. Diagnose him. But based on what we read in Second Corinthians, he had PTSD.

He had to have PTSD. There's no way. There's no way he couldn't have it.

There's no way he couldn't have had it. That's what it means, the markers. Yeah. And so, Second Corinthians, as I mentioned before, is the book to read if you're going through struggles in your life. If you're suffering, yes, read Genesis, great. Read Romans, great. Read Philippians, the letter of joy and all that. But if you really want to benefit from one book, sometimes people go Job.

Yeah, but you may get bogged down in all the discourses between the four friends, okay? Maybe you go to Second Corinthians, and you'll get a whole lot more benefit. Second Corinthians is an encouraging book for me specifically because when I see the way that the Corinthians treated Paul, and yet he still wrote to them in their suffering. Even him, him sitting in prison and being beaten and all, and they're pointing to him like, see, you were a failure all along. But through God's mercy, he still wrote that letter to them encouraging him. If you know anything about what John is referring to, there's a history between Paul and the Corinthians.

It's kind of a love-hate relationship. Paul founded the church there, and he taught them, he spent time with them, he invested in them, and he also corrected them. So because he corrected them, they were spiteful towards Paul.

They kind of like, we don't like you, right? Thing that happens many times when we're going through struggles and trials and tribulations, we end up listening to the wrong people. True, very true.

And so Paul wrote this letter partly to correct them, but also to comfort them. And so- What a guy. Yeah. Yeah. And he brings up his own PTSD to help them understand that he gets it. And this is how he deals with it.

So he's hoping they'll learn from him. Yeah. And this is, I think what we're referring to is this long list of things that he's gone through.

Right. And it's hard for people to misread as boasting, not boasting, but it's kind of a weird thing now because we boast in our infirmities, and yet now there's boasting about what we've been through. And it's like, well, that's just me.

I'm boasting in my infirmities. It's like trying to one-up someone with how you've gone through. Right, right, right. Oh, you think you got it bad?

Let me tell you about me. Right. But Paul's was different, and we're going to see that in a moment. He kept recasting it.

He would say all the things that he went through, but then he would turn it around. I believe it becomes boasting is when all you're doing is talk about how tough things are and have been for you, and look how strong you are, and look how many badges that you're wearing. Right. Hey, look, I've been through some stuff, man. You just want sympathy. You don't want to boast about God. Or admiration. Or admiration, yeah. It's like, wow, this man has been through a lot. Paul doesn't do that. I mean, he's like, I've been through a lot, but for Christ.

That's right. Yeah, but through Christ kind of thing. But let me just go one step further and talk about PTSD a little bit, okay? Because I think many times we self-diagnose, and we say that we are PTSD, but that's not really true. So I got Nicole, my wife's help, to get the proper or more the textbook definition of PTSD. The World Health Organization defines PTSD as a delayed and or protracted response to a stressful event or situation, either short or long-lasting, of an exceptionally threatening or catastrophic nature, which is likely to cause pervasive distress in almost anyone.

So if what you've been through did not overwhelm your ability to respond, and you still feel safe, I'm not telling you you don't have PTSD, all I'm saying is... That's a good sign that you may not. You may not. You don't meet the definition. Yeah, it doesn't mean that you're less of a person. It means you were able to conquer what came against you. Which really is a good thing. It's a good thing. We shouldn't be finding avenues for you to have PTSD after all.

Like the goal is that you don't have it, and so really that's something you should be thankful for. You should take heart that you may not have. Yeah, sometimes people say, growing up, my parents disciplined me, and now I have PTSD. And it's like, okay, all right. So what did you do?

Oh, how do I do something wrong? Okay, so you were disciplined, you were spanked, or whatever your parents used. Now, if they just went overboard and just did whatever, I get it. But if it's just that, and you are at that stage in your life where you haven't really computed or understood the purpose of discipline in your life, and you have a fundamental day difference with them in discipline, but you're claiming that's PTSD. That's a good point. A lot of the, I won't say everyone, but a lot of people who do claim PTSD are on the younger side. They're either 25 or below, where their brains are not fully developed. They are still conquering things from their path.

They're still processing. They're still understanding and developing into who they're going to be. Yeah, I'm not saying abuse your kids, but if there was discipline involved, but you didn't like it, and you're not at this stage to appreciate it because you don't have your kids yet, and you haven't gone through that. So you're quickly saying, well, that was traumatic for me, and now I'm traumatized. But in our culture today, oh, you went to a time-out?

I would take contact with your parents as soon as possible. I cannot sit in corners anymore. Yes, and I do advise that you seek professional help. Should I get Christian counseling?

No. We're not trying to make light of something that's really a PTSD. I hope you know what we're really doing here is saying people who really struggle are the ones who really need help, and we don't need to minimize it. You said it this way in a message one time is that those who are claiming trauma and claiming PTSD when it's not actually there, it's disrespectful to those who genuinely are struggling and have genuinely been diagnosed with PTSD to equate your struggle. Yeah, it devalues the whole thing, because if you've got someone who is overseas fighting in a war and they are seeing people blown up and seeing people killed and losing their best friends, and then they come home and they have PTSD, they're the exact same as someone who got stood up on a date. And now they're the same.

So we're going to just treat them both the same. And so it ends up minimizing, I think, the actual things that people are really struggling with. I have a brother over here who got shot, and here I am who just got up too quick and hit my knee on the table or something, on the desk, and it hurt really bad for like 15 minutes. It's like, man, you don't know. When you're shot, you were shot? No, I mean, I hit my knee. But I mean, I can tell you this. It was very painful. Which is about the same thing. It's not the same thing. No, not at all. I was in my office and I hit my knee on a desk.

In my nice air-conditioned office. So I know what you're going through. Oh, shit.

The other guy was shot in the desert. Yeah, I mean, I did hurt my knee and it was very painful. Tears came down my face. And I beseeched to the Lord. I said, deliver me from this pain. But it was not the same. David, you were going to add something to it.

What were you going to add? I was looking at a PTSD self-screen just to see like, because I know a lot of people are self-diagnosed. Oh, really? There's a self-screen? Yeah, but the first thing that you have to answer is, okay, sometimes things happen to people that are unusual or especially frightening, horrible or traumatic. For example, a serious accident or fire, physical or sexual assault or abuse, an earthquake or flood, a war, seeing someone killed or seriously injured or having a loved one die through homicide or suicide.

Have you ever experienced this kind of event? I was like, no. Your answer is that you do not have PTSD. Wow.

Thanks. A lot of these people who are like, my parents beat me. It's like, no, that doesn't work. And again, there are abusive parents. We're not talking about them here today.

So yeah, but you're right. Let's dig into this conversation a little bit more tomorrow because we mentioned Paul have qualifying for PTSD with some of these markers. I really want to dig in some more and show our listeners how Paul navigated that situation in his life. And maybe it would be helpful for those at home. If today was helpful for you, write in and let us know what you got from today's episode 2525825028, or you can visit us online at clearytodayshow.com.

Don't forget, you can partner with us financially on that same website. Every gift that you give goes not only to building up this radio show, but countless other ministries for the gospel of Jesus. Listen, Paul went through a lot of deep stuff, but just like we talked about, it all was for a purpose.

It was for the glory of God. And so everything that we've been talking about for the past week and a half almost now, we've been talking about it not just to put people down and make fun of people or minimize things. Just to let you know that God is working all this together for good and He's going to do that in your life as well. That's why y'all are listening. All right. Make sure you guys are here. We love you guys. We'll see you next week.
Whisper: medium.en / 2024-05-07 14:33:08 / 2024-05-07 14:48:20 / 15

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