Thursday, March 14th | An Overview Seventh-Day Adventism

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A healthier, happier you is just a click away. With that said, let's start the show. Welcome to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart with the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. And you can find more information about our show on our website, ClearviewTodayShow.com. If you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, write in and let us know at 252-582-5028. Or you can email us at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com. That's right, and you guys can help us keep the conversation going by supporting the show.

You can do that by sharing it online with your friends and family, leaving us a good review on iTunes or Spotify, anywhere you get your podcasting content from. Today is March 14th, which means the date the word is coming to us from Titus 3.14. It says, And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs that they may not be unfruitful. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, Paul. Are you telling me I've got to have good works for salvation?

Oh, no, indeed, my friend, and don't you ever interrupt my scripture. That's Paul. That's not me. No, that's not me. That's Paul.

No, of course you don't do good works. This is your Christian life. This is what we've been... Sorry, I hurt my hand really bad. I appreciate that you committed to the bit, though.

That really hurt. It's what we've been talking about this entire time. You commit yourselves to good works, not for salvation, but for your Christian life. Once you get saved, you've still got a whole life to live here on earth.

A tree that does not bear fruit is still a tree. It's just not giving evidence of the work inside of it. So, likewise, if we're not bearing good works in our lives, does that make you not a Christian? Well, good works don't lead you to salvation, but they should result from your salvation.

And if they're not, you need to take a look at what it is that you believe about who God is and who you are in Him. That's exactly right, Ryan. Good to see you today, my friend. It's good to be seen today. Today is Thursday, of course, which means that our segment is moving on to advice no one needed. This is the segment we do every single Thursday where we give you, our valued listeners, some advice to live by.

It's not licensed. It's not professional. Heck, guys, sometimes it's not even good, but we're going to give it to you anyway. David, our engineer here on The Clearview Today Show, has said that he wants to give us some advice that no one needed to live by. David, what is your advice? You've got a great track record on the show, by the way, of giving some great, great advice. I don't like to think of myself as the bearer of wisdom.

That's only Christ. But I think that I do have something wise to say here and now. Okay, let's hear it. If you are going out into a place where there are lots of people, or if you're just going out into a job interview, or maybe you're going out to meet a friend, or anything where you're interacting with one to multiples of people. So often. So any time other than when you're alone. Right.

What you should do, even if you're at home with your spouse. What? Very broad.

Okay. You need to size up the person that you're meeting and that you're talking to, to see if you can beat them in a fight. So you look, what's their frame? What's their build? Do they look athletic? If they do look athletic, are they muscular? Do they lift? Or do they have a lean build?

Maybe they fight, or maybe they box, or maybe even they're just a runner. You have to kind of determine all of these things. You said I need to do this with my spouse as well? You need to do this with everybody.

Huh? Okay, so here's my immediate reaction. That is not wise advice, but I do that. It's not wise advice?

It's not wise advice. Yeah, because you're constantly just living your life on guard. But I do think that is a guy thing.

It's something that I do, yes. I think it's something that people do, it's just different for women. Women are like, what is dangerous about this situation?

How am I going to be harmed, potentially, in this situation? Guys are like, if something goes down, what am I going to do to fight out of this? I do. Now when I walk into a place, I do immediately. The very first thing I do is I find the exits.

That's true. Like, if I walk into a new restaurant, the first thing I do is I see, well, first I smell them. I'm like, hmm, this smells good. But then before I sit down, I know, okay, there's at least one exit there, one exit there.

Let's try to sit somewhere where I can access either one. I will do that. That's not, see, I think that's a good idea, but the first thing that I do is when I walk into a restaurant, I see the server, I size him up. Boom, I fight today.

Why the server? I'm like, okay, if he comes at me with some weak stuff. Like what? He looks like he has weak knees. I could kick him in the knee and maybe take him out there. And then if I give one good shot to the liver, he's done. A shot to the liver for the server?

The server's probably a teenager, dude. Exactly. So I know I can win. That's only if something goes south.

Now there are, I mean, I hate to say it because I don't think it's good and I don't think it's wise, but when I meet new people, when we shake hands, that is the first thing that goes through my mind. Like if it came down to it, could I take this guy? And sometimes you just got to take the L. Sometimes it's just like, yeah, no. Nah, I can't take this guy.

So I'm going to be on my piece and keys. Well the thing is, even if you're like, I don't think I can take this guy, you have to devise a strategy. Find the weak points. No, because by that point I've moved on.

No, you need to find the weak points. You can't just be resigned to lose. Nicholas, do you do this? He's nodding yes. He's like, yeah. I wonder if this is all men, because I wonder if Dr. Shah does this.

If he does, he won't admit it. Yeah. We're going to bring Dr. Shah in and ask him in a second, but write in and let us know if you do this. Especially guys, write in and let us know if this is your kind of MO, if you're looking around, sizing up a situation.

If you shake somebody's hand and you're like, can I take you? Mike S. from North Carolina, who writes into the show almost every week, 100% does this. 100%.

100%. 2-5-2-5-8-2-5-0-2-8 or you can visit us online at cleaviewtodayshow.com. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Elizabeth, my darling bride, what would you say is the most beneficial thing you could do for yourself in the morning? Probably drink an entire pot of coffee when sitting.

I'd say that's a close second. Now, the best thing you can do for yourself is to start every morning with a daily devotional. If only we had one to talk about.

Well, as it turns out, we have two. Right now, you can unlock the power of daily inspiration, wisdom, and spiritual growth in our devotional series, 30 Days Through a Crisis and 30 Days to a New Beginning. Written by our pastor, Dr. Abaddon Shah, and his wife, Nicole, the 30 Days devotional series is designed to reveal new biblical truths every single day. That's right, and every day is a new revelation to guide you on your Christian journey toward a more meaningful and purposeful life. You can pick up your copy today from our website, that's cleaviewbc.org, or you can grab both books on Amazon, Apple Books, and Audible.

That's 30 Days Through a Crisis and 30 Days to a New Beginning by Abaddon and Nicole Shah. And don't forget, these are only the first two in an expanding devotional series, so keep your eyes peeled for future installments. Thanks for listening. Now, let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abaddon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You can visit us online at clearviewtodayshow.com, or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. That's right, we're here on the Clear View Today studios with Dr. Abaddon Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, jujitsu master out here, by the way. Yes, that is true. Taekwondo. He was like, what? I did take Taekwondo for about... Did you really?

I didn't know that. What about... About six months to a year. Does it ever come up when you meet people? So what I mean by that is, do you have this thing, we were talking about it on the intro today, I don't know if it's all guys or some guys or most guys, but when you meet someone, you shake their hand. Is there any thought in you that's like, I don't know if I can take this guy?

I might can, but I don't know. Not really. It doesn't really come into your mind. No, but I mean, there are times that in a crazy controversial conflict situation that I've thought about, it's like if this person acts up, what can I do? Yeah, what can I do? Yeah, I think like that. We talked about that in the intro.

I think that's an inherently male trait. If things go down in this room, what is going to happen? How am I going to protect the people that are close to me?

How am I going to handle this situation if things pop up? Or if you go into a new place, do you look for the exits? Yeah, I do.

I do that as well. I do have a funny story I can tell you about sizing people up. Yeah, let's hear it. So I was a principal, and this family, somebody worked at the school for me, and then one day she came by to introduce me to her son. Her son was a big guy. I mean, he was a big dude. And Nicholas was there in the office with me. So we're talking, and the guy's like really chill. He's like a big dude. I'm like, hey, it's good to meet you.

Your mom does a great job and all that stuff. And then I hear this growling behind me over here. And it's Nicholas. I was going to say, is it like a puppy? No, he's growling.

He's like grrr, grrr, grrr. And he's like moving around as he's doing that. Like fronting on the guy? Yes. He's flexing on this big guy?

Why? And I was like, why is he doing that? And so I forgot who said it, but they said, I think he wants to wrestle him. Nicholas was ready to go. And I was like, hey buddy, are you okay? He just kind of laughed.

And I was like, do you want to fight him? Oh man, I don't know how to segue out of that into what we're talking about today. I think it's time for a hard shift. Yeah, our encouragement for the day. Other than being ready to fight a two-year-old, what is your encouragement for our listeners today? Know your faith, know what you believe, know why you believe. It is so vital. It's always been important.

There were apologists in the early church, but especially now it's become even more important because a lot of times people are saying the same thing, but they don't mean the same thing. That's right. You know, we went to an event very recently, the three of us, I think we all went together. We were at this really, really great event.

And as with any big event, there's people outside hawking their wares and selling shirts and selling hats and selling memorabilia. And so one of the people came up to us as we were leaving. This was actually as we were leaving. And they were like, hey, we have this book, it's free. And I was like, yeah, sure, free book. And I think that's what a lot of people do. And this was not the exact copy, but this was the book.

It's called The Great Controversy, Past, Present, Future, How Will It End? No author even listed. I noticed that. So I was like, okay, cool. Also, the title is not centered. I've just noticed that now and it's kind of irking me to look at it. Yeah, it's got some chess pieces.

It looks like it was made in paint. I'm not trying to even be insulting. So I was like, okay, wow, well, whatever, free book. And so Dr. Shah actually leaned over and he was like, hey, I wouldn't read that.

And so that kind of led this conversation on the van ride home that kind of spawned today's episode because The Great Controversy is not literature. This is not Dr. Shah's book club, by the way. It's not literature we'd recommend. We're not recommending this book. And I have it in my office.

I have it just so I can refer to it if I were needed to. And the other one is The Great Controversy Ended. And both of them are by Ellen White or Ellen G. White, who was a key figure in history, especially with regards to the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Yeah, and that was kind of the thing that I think sparked this conversation because I remember on the van ride home, for me, I think a lot of Christians are kind of where I'm at, which is there's Mormons and there's Seventh Day Adventists and there's Jehovah's Witness. And we know that they're on the fringes of Christianity, but are they Christians? Do they share our faith or are they something completely different?

And I think a lot of us just don't know where to fall. Right from the beginning, I will go ahead and say I wouldn't put them in the same category as the Mormons or the Jehovah's Witness. There are believers among the Seventh Day Adventists who are true believers. I wouldn't even call it a cult. I don't believe it's a cult. I will call it a sect, a Christian sect, because there are some beliefs they have that do not line up with historic biblical Christianity. So Jehovah's Witness and Mormons, you say, are further from the truth.

They're not even in the same category. They're not even playing the same game. They got the wrong game. Seventh Day Adventists are in the game, but I think they got some wrong uniform on, I guess.

The others brought a football to a chess match. I'll go along with that. So yeah, that's who they are. I think it's so helpful, especially discussions like this, because with social media now, with TikTok, with creators, it's very easy to appear polished and knowledgeable on social media and to use the appropriate tags in your video and use the appropriate keywords, like Jesus and church and doctrine, and people will latch onto that. But a lot of times what we're seeing is people will latch onto these videos and not really do any research, not really do any digging, and just kind of absorb what the video is saying as truth. And so that's one of the things that I love about this show, is that we want to dive into doctrine, because there are people, even like me, who can be handed a book and just either out of naivete or insecurity just be like, if it's in a book, then there must be some truth to it. Seems legitimate.

Yeah, it seems legitimate. Is it like a naivete, stupidity? Naivete, insecurity.

Audacity, naivete, stupidity. There it is. There it is. I'm sorry.

Patent pending. People are like, what just happened? It's an inside joke, man. Maybe one day you'll hear it on the Clearie Today show. But it is true, because it's funny, it crossed my mind as soon as I said it, too. It's a thing that when people, like I said, I was handed a book, and it's like, oh, okay, cool, I just got something for free.

Already there's something in my mind turning, and now I'm open to receiving this information. And I think it's also the same with the pastor you were talking to. When you have a platform, it almost gives you a leg up over other people, and that's why I love that we have this radio show, because you have your 30 minutes in the pulpit, but we also have this show where people can get to know you as a scholar and as a pastor and as a theologian. And a trusted voice. Right. I hope so. And as long as I line up with the Word of God, and the Word of God is the truth, as long as I'm lining up with that, hey, believe me, listen to me.

If I don't, then please don't. What is the core of Seventh-day Adventism? So let's just set aside things that people may have doubt about them, and I'm going to go and do that. Number one, they believe in the inspiration and the authority of the Bible. So this is a plus point. They also believe in the Trinity of the Godhead, which Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses don't. So right there, we're not even in the same game.

We're not even in the same continent at that point. But at least Seventh-day Adventists do. They believe in the fatherhood of God. They believe in the deity of Christ. They believe in the person and the deity of the Holy Spirit. They believe that human beings were made in the image of God, but we are in sin.

We need redemption. And they also believe in Jesus, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, and then was crucified, died, buried, rose again. So they believe all these things.

So they are in line with what we would call a historic biblical Christianity. Okay. These are the plus points, the things that we can find common ground on.

That's right. I don't want to malign somebody unjustly, unfairly. So I want to go and put that out there. Okay. Cool.

And I guess it is an important place to start, because like I said, I think that is the true question, is are these people Christians? Yeah. Well, and a lot of times people will have grown up hearing things about Seventh-day Adventism, or like a friend said this, or my mom taught me this. And so it's important not just to know what we believe, but to know where right categories are, to know where we can actually, like you said, find common ground and things we can agree on. Yeah, where categories and boxes overlap, there's a lot of times that's where conversation can actually begin.

You know what I mean? Like if you focus so hard on the differences and what you believe that's different than what I believe, then there's not a lot of grace in a conversation like that. But starting here with these are the things that we have in common. We can at least start here. Look at some of these things that are on the outskirts a little bit later, but let's at least start with what's important.

And I think the purpose behind this show is not to stop there. Right. Because then you'll just be like, they're just like us. Right. So let's now talk about where we differ with them.

Right. They're part of what was very popular in the, I would say, 18th, 19th century, which is restorationism. There was a movement among people to restore Christianity to its early origins, roots, whatever. So they felt like the church had gotten so far away that we need to go back. And there are many groups like this who are restorationist in their ideology, their theology.

And unfortunately, many times they are restoring the wrong things. They're trying to restore the church to its early church roots? Right. Like early Christianity?

Early Christianity. And it sounds very commendable as far as like, we need to go back to the original stuff. Right. And sometimes they also produce some really good biblical scholars, archaeologists. And so, and I read their work and their works are beneficial. Right. Because they really do good research.

Seventh-day Adventists do have some very good scholars. Having said that, they are also driven by this agenda to restore. And once they find that something to restore, they will defend it at every cost.

Wow. Like as if it's inherently good. Inherently good. Like just by nature of existing. Right.

It's virtuous. Without taking the whole spectrum into account, they will just hone in on this one or two things. Like this has to happen. So I don't know how that works out, but restorationist movement end up majoring on the miners. That's a good way to put it. Like the things that are kind of insignificant or smaller or that we've moved past, that's what they're fixated. Like traditions? Huh? Like traditions specifically?

Not necessarily traditions, but ideas and sometimes even deviances. They get fixated on it. It's like, can you look beyond that? No, no. This was there.

We have to fix this. And it's like, okay, I think you lost your focus already. Yeah.

Is there a belief that the early church or the further back you go in church history that the church was almost infallible? Yeah, pure. Okay. Yeah.

Really? And to me- Sinless pure? Not sinless pure, but it's like they were more in line with what it was supposed to be. The main, the mission.

Yeah. That's why I don't preach that way. In my preaching, you'll not hear like, hey folks, we got to go back to how things- Because, go back to the early church.

What do you find? You find the Hebrew widows fighting with or the Hellenist widows fighting with the Hebrew. Yeah, that's true. You see Ananias and Sapphira lying in church. You'll see Peter being a coward and- Going and fraternizing with the Jewish believers and not with the Gentiles.

On purpose he walks away. I mean, you see racism. That's what you see.

So which pure Christianity are you going back to? That's true. That's true. Yeah, we're cherry picking at that point.

Right. We always had problems. You see Paul and Barnabas not getting along because Barnabas, you know, the bleeding heart feels like, oh, we got to take John Mark. And Paul has said, no, he's not fit yet.

He's being immature. And guess who was right? Paul. Paul was right. Because later on Barnabas began to vacillate as well when it came to the Galatians. Paul even calls him out and says, even Barnabas was led by his error. So the early church was not infallible in them. No.

They were certainly not something that- They were full of sinners who make mistakes just like us. Right. Right. There is a core. There is a truth.

For some reason, movements like this end up majoring on the minors. And that's the problem. That's why I don't care about Restorationist Christianity. Is Restorationism just one? Is that the core of Seventh Day Adventism or is that just one of their tenets? One of the things.

There are other things. I just talked about Ellen G. White. The church teaches that she possessed a modern spirit of prophecy. She was a prophet? Yeah. And so her visions, her writings were divinely inspired interpretations of scripture. Wow.

Was it gaining traction before her or was she really what kind of- her writings were what kind of catapulted it further than just kind of- It was gaining traction before that, but this is the time in history, this 19th century, 18th century into 19th century, really 19th century, where these kind of movements became very popular. I didn't realize it was that old. Yeah.

Ellen G. White is 1827 to 1915. Wow. That's what we're talking about. Okay. Yeah.

I didn't realize it went that far back. Yeah. So there's a remnant church, there's a Restorationist church. And so what we say is the church is the body of believers in Christ. It is the body of Christ in which the gospel is proclaimed. The church Christians are to grow in their faith and exercise the gifts that God has given to them.

Preach the gospel, love the saved, reach the lost, be the salt and the light in the world. But no one can claim that we are the exclusive real church. It seems as though they're putting an undue focus on the church. Because we put a lot of focus on the importance of the church, but is it that they overextend in their importance on the church?

Like the church needs to go back to what it was so that it can be pure and holy and almost divine in a sense? In a sense. But what makes it bad is that they're saying, we are it, they are it.

They've already achieved it. Yeah. They are the ones. So the perception of a Seventh-day Adventist to other churches, like if they were looking at us, they would say, you guys are doing good work, but you're not the true church.

We're the true church. Right. And there are several others like that. That makes more sense. I thought they had an improper goal, but they're saying that it's that they have an improper view of themselves as the church.

I would say so. And then they look down on others. That's what makes it bad. And the other things, of course, just like the name says, they believe that a biblical Sabbath must be observed, that hence Seventh-day, and we need to keep the Old Testament law in that sense. And so they claim that the New Testament kept the Sabbath, so we also should keep it. And of course, we have preached on that. I preached on it before.

I explained it. The Lord's day very quickly became the day. And that is Sunday because so many things. I mean, Jesus rose from the grave on the Sunday. Church was born on the Sunday. The church was meeting on the Lord's day. John the Revelator, the disciple on the island of Patmos, was on the Lord's day, which is Sunday when he got the revelation. Not because of that we shouldn't meet on Sunday, but that tells you that very early on they did not keep the Sabbath. They kept the Lord's day, and it had different meaning for them. It was not the same kind of stuff. And they also believe that salvation, they may not claim that.

They believe that it's by grace through faith, but then they also have certain outward acts that keep you saved. Really? Yeah. So your salvation is something you have to maintain. Yeah. That's where you go, huh, no, can't do that. Yeah. Starting to raise some warning signs.

Certain dietary regulations you have to keep and all that kind of stuff. Gotcha. I would even, I guess, disagree with Paul on that. Yeah.

And if you disagree with the Bible, can it be inerrant? Like, that's what I'm saying. I know. Go ahead.

Go ahead. Well, that's just what we say on this show all the time. We're so quick to overlook things that we consider secondary or tertiary doctrines, but see how very quickly, in like 15 seconds, we can tie it back to a primary doctrine. It's like, well, I know what Paul is saying, but I still like to do it. It's like, okay, so is the Bible inerrant or isn't it?

Was Paul wrong? And they would say that the Bible is inerrant inspired. They would say that, yeah. So you can't say one thing but functionally believe another. Yeah.

It didn't take an entire episode to get there. Just one or two clarifying questions and you get to a point where a primary doctrine is compromised. That's right.

It's going to be compromised. Other things is like in 1844, according to them, Jesus began the second phase of his atoning ministry in 1844. Keep in mind, this is also, you know, the Mormons are doing their thing, the Jehovah's Witnesses are doing their thing, even though SDA is not in line with those groups, but still they're claiming things which are just so like, where did you get that? They said in 1844, Jesus began a second earthly ministry? Atoning work in the sense of kind of like an investigative judgment. Okay.

All right. So examination of the dead to determine if they're worthy of being part of the first resurrection and to determine who among the living are abiding in Christ and keeping God's commandments. So this... Did something happen in 1844 to put them into that? That was a good question. Was there like a big historical event? I feel like I know the answer to this, but why 1844? It's about the time that this, all this movement was being born. That's what I was going to say. It's convenient that it was around the same time.

Yeah, it's about the same time. And one of the biggest ones that, one reason we were going to talk about this, but we, I wanted to introduce our people to our listeners, our viewers, to this whole subject, is the whole concept of soul sleep. Like when you die... Sounds kind of like Odin's sleep from Thor. The Odin's sleep. Yeah.

They teach that those who have died are kind of like in an unconscious sleep-like state. And so that... And there are plenty of things. And I brought old Wayne Grudem here. Oh, there he is. Nice, nice.

Second edition. He does a great job explaining some of these things. The whole idea of sleep or falling asleep, when the Bible talks about that, it's more metaphorical. It's not... You know, when Jesus said, Lazarus is asleep, let's go wake him up. He's not talking about soul sleep at that point. So they believe that the soul is still in the body, it's just asleep. It just, at that moment, it's like, boom, you're gone.

Can't wake him up. Yeah. And there are many things, many passages that I can quote here. Like for example, the thief on the cross. Right.

Today you will be with me in paradise. Yeah. Not in the nap time bed. Yeah. You won't be unconscious. Right.

You'll be with me unconscious. Yeah. Right. Let's see.

Paul, it says in Philippians 1 23, my desire is to depart and be with Christ, not my desire is to depart and go to sleep. Yeah, and be there one day. Yeah. True. Yeah. And then there's so many other passages. Chapter 12, verse one, when it talks about all the cloud of witnesses who are encouraging us to run the race that is set before us looking unto Jesus. Right.

They're not asleep. These are very, very serious implications for doctrine. Right. That's one thing that I think I've changed a lot in the past couple of years is I've started taking doctrine a lot more seriously.

And you know what's funny? I actually feel way more confident as a Christian now that I've done that. And again, we're not saying SDA or Seventh-day Adventists are not believers. Right. No, no, no.

There are so many born-again, saved believers. But here's the big problem. Yeah.

Some things they hold that disagree with and divert from mainline biblical Christianity. Right. And agree to disagree may not always be the best option. Right. It's kind of, I think, our point.

Yeah. So important for us. If you guys enjoyed today's episode, if you learned something, write in and let us know, 252-582-5028. Or you can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. You can scroll to the bottom and support us financially on that same website, click that Donate button, and become part of our Clear View Today Show family as we together impact the nations with the gospel of Jesus. Also want you to visit MightyMuskatine.com. They're the sponsors for today's episode.

Check out their line of products. Use the promo code TODAY when you check out T-O-D-A-Y. It gets you a discount on your purchase and a portion of that purchase comes right back here to the Clear View Today Show. Jon, what's up next for us? We're talking about the blessed assurance of our salvation.

Fun fact, Ryan, did you know you could actually pay money to get saved? We're going to be talking about that tomorrow and talking about the assurance that Christ gives us in our salvation. Love it. Make sure you guys tune in tomorrow. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear View Today.