Wednesday, December 13th | Talk Less, Pray More (ft. Dr. Gary Miller)

Welcome back, everyone. Today is Wednesday, December the 13th. I'm Ryan Hill, John Galantis, and you're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com.

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Go ahead and do it right now. That's right. And while you're doing that, I'd like to read for you the verse of the day. It comes from John chapter 8, verse 12. Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, I am the light of the world.

He who follows me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life. We've done this thing where we make the light of the world this ethereal, bodiless thing. It's happiness. It's joy. Peace. Those are the light of the world.

Those are the things that give us energy and life. When Jesus spoke and he says, I'm the light of the world, it's a person. It's flesh and blood.

It's me. It's my presence here on earth. I'm the light of the world. He who follows me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life. And it's not just following his example. It's not just being like Jesus.

It's being in Christ. So I am a, from the time I can remember, I'm a science nerd. I love all things related to science and just scientific discovery and learning more. And one of the interesting things about light is that it is a very unique substance. It behaves as both a wave and a particle. There's nothing like it.

We don't have to go into super detail there, but there's nothing like it. Scientists are still baffled by light and the way that it behaves. But the things that give off light in the world all give off light. There's not like light A and light B. Yes, there's a spectrum. And yes, there's ultraviolet infrared.

We can talk about that. But light is just light. But there are many different sources of that same light. Same with Christ being the light of the world. He is the light. And we, as the light of the world, the Bible says that we are supposed to be the light of the world, but it's not our light that we shine. Like a torch doesn't give off torch. It gives off light.

So we are different sources, but we all give off that same light. Every opportunity, every interaction is a chance for us to display the light of the world, which is Christ. That's a good way to think about it, especially at Christmas.

You know, we celebrate that the light of the world has come. We're getting closer and closer to Christmas by the way. It's the 13th. That means we're 12 days away.

12 days on the 12th day of Christmas. I'm just kidding. I'm not going to go through the entire song. Did you know that whole song, Every Day is about birds? Huh?

I read that the other day. The Lords Are Leaping, the Nine Ladies Dancing, the Five Golden Rings, everything is a bird. A golden ring is a bird? It's a kind of pheasant.

So 12 drummers drumming, 11 pipers piping, 10 lords a leaping, 9 ladies dancing, 8 maids a milking, 7 swans a swimming, 6 geese a laying, 5 golden rings, 4 calling birds, 3 French hens, 2 turtle doves, and a huh? A partridge. I don't even know what a partridge is. It's a bird. It's a bird.

Is it really? I always thought it was like porridge. Like a partridge in a pear tree. Yep, it's a partridge.

Well, look at that. Everything is a bird. Do you feel like Christmas has changed, like the feeling around Christmas has changed the older you've gotten? Like, do you have to convince yourself that it's Christmas?

Or does it just kind of come naturally and live in your heart? I kind of feel this somewhat, but for me, if you've been watching the show for a while, and I know you know this, I'm a Christmas nut. Like, I'm too much when it comes to Christmas.

I can acknowledge that. But I recognized as I was getting sort of late teen, early adulthood years, that the magic that you feel in Christmas comes from your parents. It's from the work that they do trying to make Christmas this thing, like all these traditions and these things that we do. So I decided, I think I was probably maybe 17 when this sort of realization hit, that I was going to make Christmas the most magical for my family.

And that has held true. So for me, the reason that I'm so crazy about Christmas is, number one, it's fun. I do have fun doing it, but because I want my kids to have fun doing it, too. I want them to look forward to Christmas with the same anticipation, the same feeling of magic and wonder that I had as a kid. I want to talk to Dr. Shah when he comes in and see what Christmas was like in India growing up, because I think less than 0.1% of the population over there even celebrates Christmas, or knows what Christmas is, let alone celebrate it.

So I wonder how that's different. Also, it's not cold over there. I don't think it ever gets cold. So like, do you have a white Christmas? Do you have a Christmas tree? We rarely have a white Christmas here in North Carolina, but it is at least cold most of the time. Yeah, that's true. It's just dry.

It's cold and dry here on Christmas Day. And we have a special guest today as well. Oh, yes, that's right. We do. We do. Dr. Gary Miller's here. We're going to grab Dr. Shah and Dr. Gary Miller, our special guest as well. So make sure you stay tuned as we talk to them about, not just Christmas, but as we talk to them about the importance of prayer in our lives. If you have any questions, write in and let us know, 252-582-5028, or you can visit us online at clearviewtodayshow.com. We'll be back after this. We believe in making our content as accessible as possible. That's right. Clearview produces so much content every single week, including Dr. Shah's sermons, original music, a full online store, weekly prayer gatherings, and so much more.

Not to mention the number one best-selling Christian talk show of all time. I don't know if that's accurate. Well, maybe not yet, but that's why we want people to download the app. If you're listening from the Triangle area, we encourage you to check out Clearview Church in person. But if not, you can still follow all of our content on the Clearview app.

It's 100% free on the Apple Store and Google Play Store. And best of all, all of our content is right there in one convenient spot. Make sure you download the Clearview app today, and let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at clearviewtodayshow.com.

Or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. That's right. We are back here in the studio once again with Dr. Abbadan Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism. It is Wednesday, my dudes. You remember that?

Unfortunately. I thought about that. I think about it every time someone says it's Wednesday. Really?

It just pops right into my head. There was a whole line back in the day. It was like, it is Wednesday, my dudes. When I say back in the day, of course, I mean like 2019.

In the ancient past, back in 2019, back in the day. So that actually leads into the question, because we were talking about this earlier before the ad break. What did Christmas look like for you guys when you were young, and how is it different today?

Because it almost feels like you have to make it feel like Christmas. First of all, we do have a very special guest on the show today. Yeah, we do. We need to introduce him. I thought we introduced him. Did I not introduce him?

We have not. I didn't introduce you. I'm sorry, my friend. Our video audience knows that there's a very special guest. Did I introduce him?

No. I'm so sorry, dude. I'm so sorry. You launched on Wednesday, and then we just kind of stayed.

It's Wednesday, dude, and it went down from there. Now I feel like we either have to start over or lose all this comedy. No, no, no.

That's just a roll with it. Gary Miller, I appreciate you being here. I thought I introduced you. That was my fault.

You do it. Welcome to the show, Dr. Gary Miller. We are excited to have you on The Clearview Today Show today. Thank you.

I'm one of the most unforgettable men in America. He just got really excited to bring up that Vine reference. We were talking about humility just a moment ago. That's humbling. It's like, yep, that'll do it.

Well, that is really cool. We were talking about the differences between childhood Christmases and Christmas today. Because I remember as a kid, Christmas was like magic, and now it's kind of like that Coldplay song. It's like you have to make it feel like Christmas. Do you feel that at all, or did you guys feel that, or was Christmas different growing up? I imagine growing up in India would have been fairly different. It was different. I felt it's different now, honestly. Growing up, everything was so festive.

Mom would start cooking two weeks, three weeks ahead of time. Then we had so many programs at church. Nowadays, it's more about, let's not do things.

Let them spend time with family. Over there in India, it was like, this is where you have fun. It's when church has a picnic, and church has some event going on throughout the Christmas week. We all dress up and go there and have fun. Now, here at Clearview, it's different because we have a lot of things happening. But on an average, I think you're right. You almost have to make yourself, get the presents, get this, get that.

I don't know, you have to work for it. How about you, Dr. Miller? Christmas was always special at our house. My dad loved Christmas.

That sounds like you, right? My dad, he was a romantic. He loved it all. He always made Christmas very special.

I don't know how he did it. He was a pastor of a small church. Always, there was not money to burn. But somehow, he just made it special for us. I look back on that, and there were very, very memorable Christmases. Not having them around anymore, they passed away close to 100 years old. I only miss them every day. On the days that ended with Y.

Great memories. I was actually prepping for the episode today, and I saw a Facebook post you made where you said my house doesn't know what it wants to be because those Christmas decorations are up, but it's all orange and red leaves outside. Texas is not as beautiful a place as North Carolina.

I'll very quickly go ahead and say that. We're having a beautiful fall. We looked around. Yesterday, we had some errands we had to run.

What? This is Texas? It's not Vermont, but that tree was just exploding with colors. Is that rare in Texas? We'd get a freeze, and it goes brown, and it goes gray, and everybody just goes... Oh, wow. That's wintertime in Texas.

It's a blues song, so you can make it work for you. It's beautiful there right now. That's awesome.

Beautiful. That makes me think about this idea of values that we had growing up versus where we are now and how we continue to cultivate those values for our families. One of the things we want to talk about today, especially with you, Dr. Miller, is the importance of prayer. We know that's something that is important to you. Obviously, it's important to us as well, especially Dr. Shah, with what we do here in ministry. Dr. Miller, just tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do, and how prayer became a focus for you.

I grew up in a home. My dad was a pastor. My dad had a deep, deep appreciation for prayer himself. He practiced it, and I couldn't wake up early enough without finding him in prayer. I couldn't come in after curfew without finding him in prayer. I mean, he was in prayer. He was a man of prayer, and I appreciated that. I'm not saying I practiced it, but I knew there was a difference in him. I've been on my own journey.

I'm 73 years old. I'd like to tell you I picked up on this real quick. But it hit me one day, probably close to 30 years old, when I realized that I had preached before hundreds at that time, maybe a couple of times a thousand or so people. I'd led all kinds of Bible studies. But I wasn't praying with my wife. And my dad taught one night at my church about the road to Emmaus, and he believes there's a couple on the road to Emmaus.

You can argue with that, make a case for or against it. But I bought into that, that if this was a couple, they were at the lowest part in their lives. They'd seen Jesus die.

They're walking down here seven miles. And the Bible says they were walking, talking, and discussing, but they were not praying. And then the Scripture says in Luke 24, and Jesus himself approached.

I love that word, himself. Jesus himself didn't send an angel. He wasn't invited. They weren't praying.

He showed up anyway. And right in the middle of the crisis, and he does the Aramaic equivalent of, What's up? And just, what is it that you're talking about so intently? And they just were stopped. And then he asked him a little question that is two words.

What things? Have you not heard of the things that have been going on here in this city the last few days? Well, they all have happened to him. So obviously he knows what's going on. He's not asking for information. You've got to come to grips with that. He's saying, What things?

And so the point is that prayer is not giving him information. It's about him bringing an intervention. It turned me around. And I realized that I was a young husband, and I had said some things to my wife over the years that I couldn't take back.

And I know I said I was sorry, but she remembered every one of them. And Satan had really used that against me to keep me from praying with my wife. And I went home that night, and I got with my wife, and I said, We're going to pray together.

It kills us. We're going to do this because it's just right. And that's where prayer for me took. It came home. Not at church, which is a good place to pray, but it came home.

And that has become a burning desire in my heart. My wife and I now have a ministry called Talk, Let's Pray More. And that came when she developed cancer, breast cancer.

And any kind of disease like that will introduce you to all kinds of new terminology, all kinds of new protocols, all kinds of words that you're nodding your head, and you don't understand a word they're saying. And now we're driving home, and we're terrified as we're trying to talk through all this. And I pulled the car over on the side of the road, and I said, Look, I can't talk about this anymore. I'm already terrified. Who's going to pray first, you or me? And so that's where Talk, Let's Pray More came from. And I'm glad you bring that up because you wrote a book called Talk, Let's Pray More. And Dr. Shah, you're in the middle of writing a book, 30 Days Praying Through Our Nation. Praying Through Our Nation, yes. Hashtag, you know, oh, man, I messed the joke up. I was going to say hashtag book three coming 2024. I messed it up.

I couldn't get it out. But what I'm saying is you've both, you've both worked on literary works focused on prayer. And one thing that I've seen in your book and as well as the one that you're coming out with is using Jesus as that template.

Oh, yeah. Because he, the way he prayed set up templates for how we ought to pray. And think about it, the Son of God, the second person of the Godhead. But he still prayed. He still was having a conversation with the Father. And how is it that we think we don't have to talk to our maker?

That's right. We don't have to talk to him. That I can go about as long as I'm a good person or I love Jesus, but I don't have to talk to him.

We don't say that, but that's how we live. But Jesus, sometimes early enough, he would get up and go away by himself and pray. And his disciples, when they came to him, didn't ask him, teach us how to do a miracle or teach us how to, you know, make a feed 5,000 or 10,000 people. They said, teach us how to pray. I mean, think about that. They asked him, teach us how to pray because they saw Jesus's life so marked by prayer that they said, this is that one thing that makes him who he is. We want to know how to do that. Amen.

You're exactly right. I asked my dad before he died. He was a long time prayer warrior. He probably held prayer conferences in a thousand churches in America and he's been on every continent.

I don't know if he made it to Antarctica, but I mean, it didn't because he didn't try. Right. But it's just, so I asked him one day, I said, what's the most profound piece of scripture that you know about prayer that you would pass on to me? And it's that the Lord teaches to pray.

And that's it. I mean, it's interesting that the Lord teaches to pray. I don't know, I mean, what causes me to pray, sometimes I wish I hadn't asked that question, but cancer being one of those. But, you know, it's something that Jesus came to that point how I don't know the dynamics of it all, but not my will, but thy will be done, that it's just prayer is us getting in on what God wants to do. That's right. Yielding our will to his will. I'm not trying to wrestle God into a corner. And this is what I need from you today.

It's just what do you need out of me today? That's right. Yeah.

And I'm leaning into the yoke with him. So, to me, that's what prayer is, and I've tried to pass that on in the simplest way possible. You are so right. Jesus is the template, if I may be so bold to say that.

I mean, he's the model, if you will. And I've written several other manuscripts on talk less, pray more through Matthew. Talk less, pray more through Luke.

I'm working my way through the New Testament to just write books that pull out these truths on prayer. And, you know, it's something that if men would learn to do with their wives, men would learn to do with their children. And so I was preaching a few months ago in a cowboy church in Texas, which may be the most redundant statement I'll make today. I was going to say, I imagine they're pretty common here.

We have one that I know of in town. Well, it's, you know, great people. And these are all ropers. I mean, you can tell when you shake hands with them and don't have a thumb because they've got to pull that out.

But these are tough boys. And so this tall drink of water is watching me all the time, leaning against the back wall like this. You've got the cowboy tan with the white up here and the brown all the way down. Is it a black hat or a white hat? You don't wear a hat. You don't wear a hat and shirt.

Oh, OK, OK, OK. I was going to say, if it's a black hat, you ain't a big fella. It was just the evidence of the hat. Bob Phillips taught you that.

You don't wear a hat and shirt. Gotcha. And so, you know, he came up to me after the invitation.

He didn't come during the invitation. He came after it because he had a point he wanted to make. And I can't tell you exactly what he said, but he made it very clear. You've been kicking my caboondah all morning.

And of course, I'm looking up in the nostrils of the guy and belt buckle in my face. And I said, I didn't come here to hurt you. I came here to help you. And this is the most profound thing I've ever heard a man say. He said, I get it, preacher. I get it. I have prayed over a cheeseburger more than I have prayed over my kids. Wow.

And that's going to change at my house today. And that's what I do. I don't try to make this so hard that a simple man and a hardworking man can't get it.

This is it. That if you'll take what you know about Jesus and talk to who you know enough to get in what God wants you to know, pray for your wife and pray for your children. Let them hear you pray. That's a great man. And I'm telling you, man, it's changed my life.

I'm on a mission to do that. It saved our marriage because I'd like to tell you that we go through a crisis like cancer without any kind of... It's a dark place. And I mean, it just takes you places you don't want to go. And if you're not having God walk you through that, it'll leave you ragged.

And so that's what my wife and I do. In 2005, I was doing a prayer seminar and David Lane called me. My cell phone rings up in Gatlinburg and he said, Hey, can you help me get 50 pastors together?

OK, what do you want to do? Well, I want them to meet with the governor of Texas and he's going to talk to them about getting behind the marriage amendment. And he doesn't want to do it unless he can get pastoral support. And I said, yeah, I know 50 pastors. That's not going to be hard. Where are we going to meet at the governor's mansion? I said, oh, they'll be stepping all over each other to do this.

That's no big deal. I'm still walking across the parking lot when my phone rings again. Can you get me 500? And I said, what happened to 50? And if you've talked to David Lane, you understand that suddenly your feet are moving places you didn't intend to go.

They're going to have him on the show this coming Friday. Well, I'm telling you, it's going to be a mess or a message. It depends on how it all comes together. But he won me over by when he said 500. And I said, well, I said this to him. I said, OK, I don't have a list of 500 pastors that follow me anywhere.

And you want them to go to Austin to turn Texas around on the marriage amendment? Who's going to pray first, you or me? And that's my relationship began in this kind of work with David. For me, it's still a matter of prayer.

And if we stop praying, we're going to get our results, not God's results. Even right here at Clearview, every Tuesday morning, and David was instrumental in that, at six o'clock in the morning, we have men come together. And we began sort of hesitantly not sure this is going to happen or not. We'll just be the staff guys showing up. Close to 45 men showed up. Six a.m. Six a.m. in the morning. And ever since then, the numbers have stayed steady, sometimes even gone up. And we are going through Thanksgiving season, Christmas season. And it's a busy time of the year. And people are still coming in cold.

When it's cold, guys are like, I don't know, I want to be out there. They're still getting up. And it's awesome at 5.50 as I'm pulling in. And these guys, some of these guys are here at five o'clock in the morning ready for that prayer. It's awesome to see cars and trucks pulling into the church parking lot and walking in and sitting down. And then we have a man, it's all lay led.

We wanted this to be lay led, not us. And so one gentleman will get up and he'll get up on the pulpit. He will share devotional for five minutes and then sit back down.

And they will divide up in six to nine groups. And then they will pray. And it's a 30-minute prayer time. And so get in there. John will lead us in a song.

That's it. Five-minute devotional. By 6.10, they're in their groups praying. And for the next 10 to 12 minutes, it's wonderful to just look around and watch them chatting, but then quickly going into time of prayer. And some of the men, I never imagined they would come. Yeah, that's true.

I didn't think, oh no, I don't think he'll ever come. And they are here. Well, I have seen prayer through these American Renewal Project events change the climate in the room. I'll just be candid. A conservative person, a carnal conservative person can hold their own with any liberal activist I've ever met. I mean, when you've got these carnal opinions that are on this side and you're going after this person on this side. And Oswald Chambers used to say, discernment is God's call for intercession, never fault finding. So if you're going at somebody here rather than going here and having God do the heavy lifting in someone's life, you're going about this wrong when you're, you know, well, Joe Biden this or, you know, Governor Cooper that or Donald Trump this and, you know, Biden that. And I mean, you know, it's all going on at this level. And Christians will do this.

Oh, yes. They will do this. And they will not listen to the word of God, no matter how clear it is. In First Timothy 2, 1, first of all, I want you to pray for all those who are in authority. That's right. It's God's plan. Right. You know, if you can't pray for Joe Biden, then you need to cough whatever's up in your throat, hit it out.

You know, it's mostly yourself. And just get in obedience if you want God's results. And same thing with Trump or whoever, you know, it's just name your poison. But pray for all those who are in authority. Well, I'm going to pray at him. I'm not going to pray for him. You use those semantics with God.

You go ahead and do that. And you have a conversation with him. It's called prayer. It's a conversation with him.

He'll have a few choice words for you, I'm sure. That's right. So, you know, this is for keeps.

This is for all the marbles. That's right. This isn't a devotional exercise. This is warfare. Amen. And the weapons of our warfare are gripped. That's right. They're gripped when you pray.

That's the grip. Amen. And when you let the grip loosen on prayer, you lose the effectiveness of the weapons of your warfare. And this is war. Amen. This is not devotional exercise.

This is war. And hopefully today's episode changed your perspective on prayer. If you learned something today or if you'd like to learn more about Dr. Miller and the work that he does, write in and let us know, 252-582-5028. If we can pray for you, we'd love to do that. You know, we talk about people writing in with suggestions for the show. But if you have something going on in your life that we can pray about for you, we'd count it a privilege to do so. Send those prayer requests in to us.

You can also email them at contact at clearveetodayshow.com. Jon, what's coming up on tomorrow's episode? Tomorrow, we are jumping back into Dr. Shah's book club, talking about what Jesus was never born. What was the author? D. James Kennedy.

D. James Kennedy. Excellent episode tomorrow. Make sure you tune in. That's right. Love you guys. We'll see you today.