Monday, October 24th | Can We Recover the Original Text of the New Testament?

Hello, everyone. Today is Monday, October the 16th. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. If you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com.

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We're going to leave a link in the description so you can do just that. The verse of the day today comes from Ezekiel chapter 38 verse 28. Thus I will magnify myself and sanctify myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.

And I think that's the ultimate goal, right? That they know that He is God. I've been thinking—I was reading Psalm 46 this morning, this, Be still and know that I am God. And just to know that with certainty, to know that He's God, not just to suspect or not just to have that faith, but to know that He is God, to see God magnified, sanctified. And I love that as well, that He's going to magnify Himself. He's going to sanctify Himself, because only He has the authority to do that.

It's beautiful. We are, as a people, without excuse in pursuit of God. God has less sufficient information in the world around us.

Now, we can't look at a mountain range or an ocean and be like, Oh, I have a Savior who died on the cross for my sins. But we can look around and say, there's an intelligent design here. There has to be a Creator.

There must be something, an author to all of this. And then that should lead us in pursuit of who God is. He's magnified Himself. He's sanctified Himself. And He can do that in our lives as well.

That's exactly right. Well, happy Monday. It's good to be back here in the Clearview Today studio.

Glad that everybody made it here safe and sound today. Ryan's here. Nicholas is here.

Dr. Shah will be here a little bit later on in the episode. David, you're here. Barely. Thank goodness. Barely.

Barely here. What happened? I was here early this morning doing some stuff, and then I was like, I need to go home and get ready. So I left, and I was on a phone call with Dr. Shah. I'm sitting here talking, and then as I'm hanging up, I hit the little red end button. And when I hit end, my car just starts to sputter. Your phone was connected to your car somehow.

That's end this drive. That's what it seemed like. So it started sputtering, and I was like, What the world? And the more I pressed the gas, the slower the car got.

Oh, yeah. That's a bad feeling. That's not good.

I always picture them like in the cartoons when the car's sputtering. Where were you? On 85. Daggone. That's not good. What happened? What did you do? Who'd you call?

So this is the whole story. So after I had all that happen, I just pulled off on that exit very slowly, parked it, called my dad. I was like, Hey, Dad, I ran out of gas. He was like, How'd you run out of gas? Don't you look at the gauge? And I was like, Well... A reasonable question. That's why you always hesitate for a little bit in the car, because you always know that's coming.

How could you do that? You didn't look. And then I was like, Well, the gauge is broke, so I can't tell how much gas is in there. So when do you get gas? How do you know when to get gas? Just kind of feel it out.

Feel it out? Yeah. It's worked for the past year. This is the first time. That's so chaotic.

Yeah. What does it feel like when you're low on gas? What I really do is I will look at the tank. I'll see, Okay, I've been driving. I filled up on Friday. Today is Wednesday. I probably need to fill up on Thursday or Friday again.

Okay. So like once a week. Yeah, pretty much. That's fun. So my dad did that, gave me some gas, and then we went to Waffle House. So it ended up being a pretty good day.

Yeah, a nice breakfast. That's not bad. That's fun. That's always a bad feeling when you run out of gas. I don't think I've ran out of gas in years. I have never run out of gas.

Really? Never in my life. It's a bad feeling, because the car still goes a little bit. Especially if you're trying to get gas and you see a gas station right off the exit, and you're like, No, just get me there.

Just get me there. I think it's happened to me maybe once or twice. I have never. I'm usually that person who, when I get down to a quarter of a tank, I would just go ahead and fill up. This is a story for another time, but I also ran out of gas in Creedmoor on my motorcycle once. That was a fun... Yeah, how do you even do that?

Is it the same thing? You just take a jerrycan and put gas in it? No, I pushed the motorcycle for a mile to a gas station. Oh my goodness.

A mile? Good grief. Yeah. When was that? That was in college. Oh.

That was in Creedmoor at the early college campus. Wow. Yeah, that was fun. Well, I wonder how many of you guys out there have ever run out of gas? You got any stories to top that?

Pushing a motorcycle for a full mile? Yeah, I'm interested to hear these stories. Now, write in and let us know. Or you can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. We're going to get Dr. Shaw, and we'll be right back. Hey, everyone. My name's Ellie.

And I'm David. We want to take a minute and let you know how we can actually serve you as you're listening to Clear View today. The Bible paints an extraordinary picture of who we are as a church body. The mission of Clear View Church is to lead all people into a life-changing, ever-growing relationship with Jesus Christ. A huge part of leading people is praying for them. A big reason that Christians have unanswered prayers in their life is because they're not praying.

You know, 1 John 5.15 says, and if we know that he hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of him. If you're listening to the Clear View Today Show, we want to know how we can pray for you as well. There's a number of ways that you can get in touch with us at Clear View and share your prayer requests. But the best way is by texting us at 252-582-5028. You can also send us an email at prayer at clearviewbc.org.

Or you can download the Clear View app on iTunes or Google Play. You know, on that app, there's a dedicated prayer wall that helps us to get to know what's going on in your life, how we can pray for you, and how we can take any necessary steps to get you moving in the right direction. Thanks for listening. Now let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028.

That's right. And today's your first time ever joining us here on the Clear View Today Show. Allow us to introduce you to our host, Dr. Abbadon Shah, who is a Ph.D. in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show.

You can find all of his work on his website. That's AbbadonShah.com. Dr. Shah, when was the last time you ran out of gas? When was the last time you dealt with someone who ran out of gas?

When I dealt with someone... Yes. Uh, I think it was Abigail. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This was, um, one day it was like after school.

So it was like somewhere about four o'clock, I would say, sort of winter time, if I remember correctly. And I get a phone call from Nicole, I think saying, Hey, we need to, you need to quickly go and help Abigail. And I said, what's going on?

He says, she's out of gas. I'm like, okay, where is she? She is on Dabney Drive. And this was, and this was not for our gator now.

It was about 515, 530. Yes, where you don't want to be. And even there, she was right before you get on the I-85 overpass. That bridge? She was on that bridge. She was on the bridge. Well, right on the verge of getting on the bridge. And so I get there.

And since I'm a chaplain with the police department, some of the police officers already know who my family is. So they were there sort of redirecting traffic and getting people to go around her. And I pull up and I'm like, Hey, thank you so much. And like, yeah, no problem.

No problem. I think we already got her some gas. So they already helped her out. They already got some gas for her. When you were living in India, did you ever see people who'd run out of gas, like pushing their scooters or pushing their motorcycles up the road, trying to get to the gas station? Oh yeah. A lot, lots, lots.

I feel like people usually fall into one or two camps. They either fill up like when it gets to halfway or a little bit low, or they're like, I know my car. I can push it. I know how long I have.

That's insane. So, you know, it's funny because we are talking about, well, we're talking about a lot of things today, but when we introduce the show, we always list off those list of titles. Dr. Shah is a New Testament textual critic, but also the second one is an author. Well, the third one is he's an author.

And that's relevant today because there's a new release available now, so the camera can see it, my friend. Can we recover the original text of the New Testament edited by, oh, there it is, Abaddon Paul Shah. Dr. Abaddon Paul Shah. What does it mean? What does it mean?

Cause this is something that, that I didn't know going into it. It's edited by Abaddon Paul Shah. Right. So this was based on a conference that was held here. We have something called Clear View Apologetics.

It's a ministry. And every year we have a conference. Now this year we didn't do that because we had so many of the things happening side by side, but typically October of every year since what, 2019?

Yeah, 19. We started this conference right here at Clear View. And so anyways, we talk about apologetics.

We talk about just how to defend our faith. And this book came out of that conference. Right. Which is amazing. I mean, it's amazing to sit here and like to know that we were at this conference and then to sit here and like beholding this is. Yeah.

Like an actual physical book. It's one of those things that's cool to see come to fruition from the very idea of let's have a conference, which already of itself is a, is a big deal, but then let's, all right, now the conference is over. Let's not let it die. All the stuff that we talked about here is really, really good for those who couldn't come to the conference. There's still a way to engage with everything that we talked about. And the whole purpose of it is can we recover the original text of the New Testament? That's right.

What does that mean? So there's a big debate going on and it's been around for, I would say the past 50 years, 60 years now. And it's all about the goal of New Testament textual criticism. Now, previously, the goal was very simple to retrieve the original text of the New Testament. And the reason behind retrieving the original text was that the original text is worth retrieving because it is the word of God. And we believe that the scripture is inerrant in the original autographs. So if you want the inerrant text, let's strive towards retrieving the original autographs.

Unfortunately, we don't have the autographs anymore. We don't have the physical documents, but the writings are available or they are extinct in the thousands of manuscripts that are there. So textual criticism is the science of looking at these manuscripts, understanding them, and knowing how the discipline works. Discipline in the sense of how do you evaluate readings? What makes a variant a variant?

What are the pros and cons of different theories, text critical theories or the history of transmission? And then due diligence, you arrive at the original text, which is the inspired text. And by the corollary, because it's inspired, it is also inerrant.

It means it has no errors. The scriptures is a definition that I'm about to give you. The scriptures in the original autographs, and when properly interpreted, will prove to be wholly true, w-h-o-l-l-y, completely true in everything that they affirm, whether that has to do with physical life, moral, ethical sciences, everything.

Yeah. One of the things that opponents, I guess, or I don't want to say adversaries, but people who oppose this reshifting of the goalpost back is that they'll say that, maybe even from Christian scholars, is that it's truly impossible to get back to that original text. But do they think that you're proposing to find those original autographs, or do they think that even what you're saying as you're explaining it is pointless? Yes, they do say that.

And there are people like that. And in my personal dissertation, which also became a book called Changing the Goalpost of New Testament Textual Criticism, in that book, I deal with altogether four individuals and a text critical methodology. So the individuals are Bart Ehrman, David Parker, Eldon Epp, J. Keith Elliott, and then a methodology known as CBGM. So I take the time to look at this methodology and these individuals to see why is it that they believe that the New Testament text, the original text from the autographs, is no longer retrievable, or the quest is even pointless. I guess the thing I don't understand is, for someone like Bart Ehrman, I understand that. He's not a Christian. It seems as though he wants to dissuade people from blindly following the Bible. And so there's this whole crusade of think for yourself. And I understand that.

I don't agree with it, but I understand it. I guess I don't understand why even there are Christian scholars who are saying, we're wasting our time trying to get back to the original. Because you've pointed out, it's like the very first point you make in your first book, which is also on Amazon, by the way, that if you don't have an authoritative text, then you don't have an authoritative theology. So I don't understand how a Christian could say that this is impossible, or this isn't worth the chase.

Yeah, it's surprising to me, too. But it comes from a low view of scripture. It comes from an understanding that you don't have to have the 27 books of the New Testament in order to have some authority from God in your life. Are they replacing it with personal relationship, personal feelings?

Yes. Feelings, ideas, reason, understanding. My spiritual relationship with God that He has with me through prayer, through going to church, through all that stuff, has either replaced or is just as good, if not better, than the Holy Spirit.

They won't go that far. They will just say that I don't place that much authority on scripture for my personal life. It is important because it gives me some very important information about salvation, Jesus Christ, even orthodox doctrines. All that is good, and I need the Bible, but I'm not so dependent on the Bible that it is indispensable that I arrive at the original text. It is not that critical. And your argument and the point of this book is that, well, I guess the first one is that it is that critical, and then the point of this book is that it's possible to get back to it.

Right. Even under all these different text-critical methodologies like reason eclecticism, Byzantine priority, Harry Sturtz's position that Dr. David Allen Black has taken or advocated, then there's also a different methodology, another methodology known as rigorous eclecticism or thoroughgoing eclecticism. The only thing is it's hard to find people who espouse that and are still inerrantists or they still believe that the text can be retrieved. So it was hard for us to get somebody there.

There are people there. One definitely is J. Keith Elliott, who I also examined in my own dissertation. There's also his student, Jeffrey Cloha, who I believe does hold to the inerrancy of scripture, but he doesn't outrightly claim that he is a rigorous eclectic like his mentor or like his dissertation prof, J. Keith Elliott.

But we were not able to get that one view in for various reasons. But the point of this book is to let the readers know that contrary to what these famous scholars or they may not be famous to everybody, but these leading scholars in the field of textual criticism are saying, contrary to what they're saying, that original texts can be retrieved and must be retrieved. That's what this book is about. Can be and must be.

Now, not everybody does the must be. I've tried to do that in my opening introductory chapter of this book, where I talk about basically, I say, what is the current debate over the original text of the New Testament? So I kind of give an introductory survey of this whole issue. And then I try to make the point that what people are saying that this doesn't work or it's passé or not sure why these scholars are even trying to find the original text when it doesn't exist or it's not worth it or inerrancy is not a doctrine worth holding to. It's not a traditional doctrine of Christianity, all that stuff they say. And I'm trying to say in this introductory chapter that yes, it is. And yes, the text is retrievable. And here are those three individuals from three different methodologies could have been four.

But as I mentioned, we couldn't get the fourth one. But based on these three different methodologies, we can get back to the original text, which is the inerran text. And I love that. I love that setup that that you've created here, Dr. Shah, and even in the conference as well, where there's different viewpoints and different approaches. And maybe methodologies aren't agreed on across the board. But the goal is the same. And it's recovering the original text of the New Testament. As both a scholar and a pastor, what does this book mean to you?

Well, lately, a lot that is coming out in the field of New Testament textual criticism is such a pendulum swing in the wrong direction from where New Testament textual criticism used to be. It is so different. I mean, I've been delving into it for 25 years now. So start in 1996. And this is what, 2023. So how many years is that? But 26? 96 to 23. Just about. Trying to do the quick math. Yeah, that'll be 36 years.

Right? Yes, I think so. So 26 years I've been studying this. I have seen a marked difference between what used to be the discipline and where it is today. And so like even your Nestle Island 28 that you're holding in your hands is based on the CBGM methodology. Not everything, but certain sections of, especially the Catholic epistles.

But the work is being done and it's coming out in the ECM series, which is Edetio Criticum Iore. And the readings are based on the CBGM methodology, which there are people who like, even Peter Gurry, who is one of the contributors to this book, he thinks that there is no problem with using CBGM methodology and that it does not interfere with the issue of inerrancy. But I think it does because the moment you make the first text, which is called the initial text, as a subjective text, like we're not sure, but this is a good place to start. The moment you take away the objectivity of retrieving the original text, then how do we, where do we go from there? Is that what CBGM does? It takes away the objectivity of the original? The goal ultimately of CBGM is to leave in the hands of the reader or the person working with the computer program to decide what the text should be. Yeah, it seems almost like you're running a race and you just sort of resolve yourself that you're going to sit down in the middle of the race and say, we'll never make it to the finish line.

But isn't this a nice place where we've been able to sit? Yeah, but I mean, I mean, I get that it's, it's probably, well, I guess that that's the way that it is. They would make it, they would say, well, no, it's more complicated than that. But if that ultimately is the goal of CBGM is to say, okay, we will decide, isn't that, it seems almost blasphemous in a way to say, we're going to decide what the text says. Right, right.

They have their reasons, of course. They say the whole text type issues is passe. And so now we need to use a stematology to get back to the initial text or text. And then from there we can decide what is the original text. And scholars like Peter Gurry will say, well, the initial text may be the original text and very well is, but that's not always how it works out in practice.

Also, the computer program, Gerd Mink, you know, who, or Klaus Fachtell, all these are major names in this field of textual criticism, especially with regards to the CBGM methodology. They will say, hey, look, the computer is coming up with all this. And so this is as objective as it gets. No, the computer only spits out what you have put in. Yeah.

I can't, a computer can't create an output if there's no input. Right. So the input has already been in favor of the favorite manuscripts. On one hand, you may say, oh, text types don't matter. We are way past that point.

Guys, come on, we know better now. But then when you are putting in the data, you're putting in your favorite text types. Right. Like I can't, I can't input data into a machine. And then it spits out the output and I'm like, well, it wasn't me.

It was the computer did it. Yeah. And in fact, they're even saying that the very opposite of what they're doing, you're saying text types don't matter, but when you're putting in the data that we're going to access to determine the original text is based on text types. Right. So you're saying, hey, no manuscripts are favorite.

We're not going to play favorites, but then elephant B are your favorite manuscripts. So round and round we go. So I know it's a lot maybe for somebody who is uninformed in the field and somebody may even say, you know what, how many people got saved by this? I mean, this discussion, who does, is this, is this, is this not like how many angels can dance on the head of a pen or something like that? And I would say, does the word of God matter? He said, yeah, it doesn't matter. But does it matter in that minutiae? I would say, yes, if it's the word of God that I want to know every jot and tittle, I want to make sure that nothing, nothing is in the text that is not the word of God. Okay.

I want to make sure of that. Let me also clarify and maybe put some people's anxiety at rest when I say this, don't think for a moment that any critical doctrine, critical doctrine, I didn't say doctrine, there's a difference. Critical doctrine is being impacted by textual criticism. But what I just talked about, your salvation is not in jeopardy. The Trinity is not in jeopardy. Jesus says, death on the cross is not in jeopardy.

Penal substitutionary atonement is not in jeopardy. Okay. So just let's put that aside. But for daily life and practice, I want to know every little detail because it's the word of God.

That's right. And the Bible's telling you how to live that Christian life. There's no reason not to dive into it. There's no reason not to discover all, there's something that you even said in some of your digging deep, God has hidden some of those truths. You know what I mean?

He has those hidden truths. And for us to throw our hands up and be like, I'm not interested in searching. I'll take what's on the surface. And yeah, that's good enough for me.

I don't want to waste my time doing this. But I'm sure glad that a lot of people wasted their time over this past hundreds of years to make sure that you have the text that you do have in front of you. So what is that verse? You told me a verse one time, I think it was in Proverbs, like it's God's glory to cover a thing. Or it's God's glory to hide a thing and it's King's glory to uncover something. Yeah. It was, but it was about that. It was about like finding the, like, like what God has hidden in there for you to find and discover for us to be uninterested and be like, ah, I'm good.

I have the basic 25 to is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of Kings is to search it out. Yeah. We're over here acting like peasants.

Yeah. Just content with whatever rises. God says, no, I have put it in there because I want you to dig. I want you to spend some time wrestling with these things and then get back to the truth. We have a lot to be thankful for, especially here with Clearview today, with Dutch shop, with your heart as both a scholar and a pastor and you at home listening, viewing.

This is, this is rare gold that you're getting here on Clearview today. And I'm not just saying that cause I'm on this side of the camera. I'm saying that because I get to sit in a doctor's house, preaching and teaching, go pick up a copy of, can we recover the original text of the new Testament? I promise you, don't be intimidated. I promise you this will be, uh, it will enhance your faith. It will help you grow closer to God and help you develop a love for God's word. It actually does. I was reading the first chapter before we, uh, which was written by Dr Shaw before we started this episode.

And it does read, it's not, it's not an easy read, but it reads easier than like the dissertation. I was, it is more entry level than changing the goalposts. I agree.

It's on the lower shelf. Yeah. Yeah.

But, but I don't mean that as an insult. I mean that you guys get it as, as you can understand it and you can follow it and that'll help you get into stuff like changing the goalposts. It's accessible and we'll link on Amazon where you can pick up a copy in the description or if you'd like more information, you can send us an email to contact at Clearview today show.com. Make sure you text in and let us know what you think of the book as you're picking up those copies as you're reading it. Let us know how it's impacting you.

Two five two five eight two five zero two eight. Don't forget on that same website. Clearview today show.com. You can partner with us financially, join the Clearview today show family and give to what God is doing as a result of this show. John, what are we doing on tomorrow's episode? Tomorrow is a very, very, very special episode. A most auspicious episode. Tomorrow is our one year anniversary.

One year. We'll be celebrating and turning up on Clearview today. Join us tomorrow as we celebrate our show-versary. Show-versary. Our radio-versary. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview today.