Tuesday, August 15th | The Church of Laodicea

Hello, everyone. Today is Tuesday, August the 15th. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm Jon Glantis. You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearViewTodayShow.com.

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Absolutely nothing less than five stars. I am watching you at all times. We are going to leave a link in the description of this podcast so you can do just that. It's like Big Brother's always watching. Clear View Today is always watching. Oh, yeah. It's like Professor Oak when you try to ride your bicycle, and even though you're like thousands of miles away, he's like, you can't do that in here. You can't do that here.

You can't do that here. I'm always watching. The verse of the day today comes from 1 Peter 2, verse 12, having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation. I think that's something that we don't think about a lot, is that our works here on earth actually do serve a purpose. We're so conditioned to hear that it's grace by faith and not of works less than anyone can boast. That's true, but that is for salvation. Our good works as Christians are still critically important to the Christian life. 1 Peter tells us that, that by your good works which they observe glorifies God in the day of visitation. They serve a functional purpose in the Christian life.

Absolutely. They should necessarily follow salvation. Read the book of James. Works don't save you, but they should be an integral part of your life as a believer.

If they're not good works in your life, then you need to take a look at what it is that you believe. I just want to clarify that Professor Oak thing from earlier. That's a Pokemon reference. I've realized, as I was making the joke, so many people are going to be like, I don't know.

Who's Professor Oak? He doesn't want you to ride your bicycle? Yeah. The way the old games would be set up is, if you had a bicycle that you could ride at certain points when you're outside in the world. Yeah, because you walk slow as molasses.

Slow, slow. But when you got that bike, oh, man, you were zipping around. Then you tried to ride it inside a museum or something. Professor Oak would pop up somehow in a chat bubble. You can't do that here.

You can't do that here. Speaking of Professor Oak and Pokemon, I'm glad-slash-hurt that you brought this up. Uh-oh. So, I'm a Pokemon fan.

As am I, yes. Since it hit the United States originally, I have been a Pokemon fan. The 90s were a great time for young nerds.

Oh, man. I was all on that Pokemon mess. I was too young for the original red and blue, but gold and silver on the Game Boy color, that was my jam. I logged a lot of hours into blue. Shout out to Bulbasaur, my OG starter.

However, new generations, new games. You started with Bulbasaur? Oh, yeah. Okay. Greatest. We'll talk about that.

The original dual type. I got you. Okay.

Grass, poison. Anyway, so, the newest generation, Gen 9, is out. Pokemon Scarlet and Pokemon Violet for the Nintendo Switch.

We have two Switches in our house, because they were bought independently for the kids, and now we have two Switches, which works great, because I have five kids. We also have a copy of Pokemon Scarlet and Pokemon Violet. So, they can trade in between. Right.

Yeah. You get the best of both worlds. And the great thing about these two games is, you can actually play together. You can see each other in the world and run around in co-op. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I didn't know that.

It's a ton of fun. I didn't know that. And that makes Pokemon that are exclusive to one version show up in your game. So, if you couldn't get this version, if you couldn't get this Pokemon in Violet, if you link with somebody in Violet, it can show up in the overworld. Oh, bro, that's fun.

While you're linked together. Anyway, lots of cool stuff. I started playing Pokemon Violet. Beat the whole game. But, as with Pokemon, there's lots of in-game stuff to do. Oh, yeah.

Logged a lot of hours. Some people in my family, who shall remain nameless, but it's not me and it's not my wife. Okay.

Well, that does narrow it down. Caused damage to the cartridge of Pokemon Violet. When I tell you it is microscopic, it is the tiniest little dent in the cartridge. But, you put it in the Switch, and it's like, this cartridge is unreadable. But, I was like, Nintendo has a repair option now. I was like, okay, let me log on and see what it would cost to get a repair. I looked at it, and I was like, okay, $30. That's not the cost of a game that might be worth it.

So, I looked into, the service charge is added, and the shipping is added. By the time that all the little extra charges were added, when I went to go check out, it was, I kid you not, only $3 less than buying a new game outright. Then just buying a new game. Nintendo games are expensive. Oh, my. That's an expensive hobby to be a video gamer, anyway.

But, excuse me, especially if you play Nintendo games, you are going to spend some money on those. That's bad, dude. I was so defeated.

So, what are you going to do? I started Pokemon Scarlet. So, Violet's the one that got messed up?

Violet's the one that got messed up. Why don't you just buy a new one? We probably will. Make the kids buy it. Honestly, I might. They could get you a bunch of birthday money and be like, hey, here's your service charge. Fork it over. That's what parents do, anyway. When I got birthday money, my mom would be like, let mama hold it for you. But, let me hold on to it so you don't lose it. Let me hold on to it in my bank account. You better believe I lost it either way. My mom was holding on to it.

It's just, she helped you lose it. Yeah. Well, that stinks, man. Everybody's got to play their Pokemon. I'd go ahead and get that result.

Here's the first world problem. Here it is. In addition to Pokemon Scarlet and Violet, we also have Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl and Pokemon Sword and Pokemon Snap. Pokemon Snap was my jam. I didn't play the one on the Switch. Have you played the new one? It's pretty good. No, I haven't played it. It's pretty faithful to how the original played. Pokemon Snap on the Nintendo 64 was my jam, fo' sho'. I spent some hours in that game.

It was good. Anyway, all that to say, I'm kind of bummed. Well, I hate it for you, man.

I'll be praying for you. I know what it's like to lose all your Pokemon, man. That's horrible. Yeah.

Lots of hours. Anyway, that's just good to know. Is the save data still there? Or is it gone, you think? I think, from what I understand, I think it's still there. But I don't actually know.

If you get a new cartridge, I don't know if it's still there or not. I'm interested now. I'm kind of impressed. It saved my profile, so I'm hoping that save data will transfer over. That's a lot of hours.

That's a lot of trades. Yeah, we'll be bringing this back up. We're going to get Dr. Shah and start the show in just a second. If you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028.

If you have any advice on how to repair broken Switch cartridges, hit me up, let me know. Or visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. We'll be right back. There's a number of ways that you can get in touch with us at ClearView and share your prayer requests, but the best way is by texting us at 252-582-5028. You can also send us an email at prayer at ClearViewBC.org, or you can download the ClearView app on iTunes or Google Play.

On that app, there's a dedicated prayer wall that helps us to get to know what's going on in your life, how we can pray for you, and how we can take any necessary steps to get you moving in the right direction. Thanks for listening. Now, let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abaddon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028.

That's right. If today's your first time ever joining us here on the Clear View Today Show, we want to welcome you, let you know exactly who's talking to you today. Dr. Abaddon Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show.

You can find all of his work on his website at AbaddonShah.com. Dr. Shah, let me run this by you. We talked about this in the opening, and I want to know if I'm alone in this. The Nintendo Switch, that gaming console, has little cartridges that go in it. Tastes terrible. They're designed to taste terrible. They made them taste bad, because they're so small, little kids put them in their mouth. They taste horrible.

They really did put a chemical taste in there, so the kids wouldn't put them in their mouth. We didn't have that problem, but we did have one of them get damaged. They have a repair service, so I looked at sending it off. Well, it turns out, by the time all the shipping is calculated and everything, it would be $3 more just to go out and buy a new copy of the game. Have you ever run into anything like that?

Repairs just frustrating the whole procedure? Yes, the world has changed. 30 years ago, you would keep that same thing, whatever that same thing was, some gadgets, like cords and cables and stuff, you would keep that for years to come and go back and use it, reuse it, whatever. But now, everything is obsolete. To get a replacement part is close to impossible.

It's impossible. So we had to make it work. There was one time where, I kid you not, he came in, this isn't repairing something, but just MacGyver-ing stuff, making something out of nothing. He brought in a record, like an album, a thumbtack, a cardboard box, and made it play, and you could hear the music. I can't remember exactly how he did it. That was the wildest thing ever. Is this magic?

How did he do that? Now, before we ever send anything off that we typically take cameras and stuff, you look at this, you just see if you can cut it. I wish our kids would be more like that. Just work on it. Make it work. Do something.

Learn. I know sometimes parents are scared because they're going to take it apart and can't put it back together. I know that happens, too.

A lot of people noticed that David has been talking in some of the episodes, and he hasn't been on camera. It's because we had to send in one of the cameras for repair, and they were like, honestly, if you saw the price... They said, there's nothing wrong with it. We can still ship you a new one, but the cost is going to make you physically sick. It's going to make you nauseous. It's going to make you sick to your stomach. Sick to my stomach.

And you will spew the cost of that repair out of your mouth. Absolutely disgusting. Got to work on our segues. It was smooth, but it was gross.

Yeah, it was smooth and gross. We're talking about the churches in the book of Revelation, those seven churches. Today, we actually come to the seventh and final church, the church in Laodicea.

This is a very interesting one. I think this is the one that most Christians know, or those who know the Bible somewhat. They know about the church that was neither hot nor cold. Because it was neither. It was lukewarm.

Jesus says, I'm going to spew you out of my mouth. That word lukewarm. That is such a buzzword. Don't want to be lukewarm. Yeah. I don't want to be the lukewarm Christian. It is the one.

I don't know if it's just saving the best for last or what it is, but this is the one that everyone's like. They look to them. I guess it's just such a visceral image of Jesus spitting this church out of their mouth.

Golly, that's strong language. That's right. For this church, Laodicea, the city is known as Laodicea on the Lycus. One of my favorite, most favorite sites to visit in Turkey. It is situated on the Southwest side of the river Lycus, and it's in the Lycus Valley. So, you have Laodicea, Hierapolis, and Colossae.

These are the three cities of the Lycus Valley. Laodicea is on the Southern Anatolian highway. Being on this highway, it became very prosperous because all the traders would come right through there, going from East to West, West to East, and it prospered. Laodicea had a banking center. We tend to think that banking centers began in the medieval times in Europe and all that, but not true. Laodicea had a banking center. In fact, Cicero, the Roman orator, philosopher, statesman, in one of his writings, he talks about going to Laodicea with his bill of exchange. He gets paid to do his work, whatever, and he actually cashes it in Laodicea. The more that we talk about this, and the more that I learn from you, Dr. Shaw, about these ancient civilizations, but really, it wasn't quite that long ago, they're not nearly as primitive as people believe.

Shenen No. We elevate ourselves so much. I don't know if it's hubris or complacency or what, but we think, because I've got a laptop in front of me that connects to the internet, I'm so farther above even the kings and emperors of old. It's the evolutionary mindset world in which we live, where we think that we have evolved. That's the common theory of life, that everything has evolved from a microbe or some ooze in the ground.

We tend to think that people in the past were just primitive, but they may not have the technology that we have today. We know that for a fact, because if they had video cameras, somebody would have filmed from the inside of the ark. Right. What's going on, guys? It's Noah. It's your boy, Noah. I'm here.

Sending thoughts and prayers out there. Yeah. I don't know what they would have called it. Maybe not apple, because it was too close. Too soon. Too soon. Too soon. Too soon.

Too soon. I don't know. Maybe they call them bananas or oranges.

Yeah. They try it as a joke. That's not funny. That's not funny. That's not funny. This is what got us in this mess. No, we're not going to have an apple with the one side bit off. Tragedy plus time, man.

You got to time that, right? I'm not sure what they had. Maybe a pineapple. I don't know. That's SpongeBob. Yeah. If it was during the flood, it would certainly be under the sea. Under the sea. Yeah.

I don't know. They didn't have those kind of technologies. We know that. But they did have an understanding of the way of life, about just the standard of living, the basic amenities of life. They knew how to master them and make them really work for them. Like indoor plumbing. They had it.

Go to Ephesus. Walk up the terrace housing and you will see toilets inside the house. Yeah. You see evidence of civilization as we know it today. Right. Exactly.

Because people talk about it. Like, you know, back in the day, you know, there used to be an outhouse and when I would go visit grandma, I had to walk down the path. In Ephesus, they had indoor plumbing. Yeah. That may be true for you, but that's not the way that it was.

Yeah. Maybe true in that part of your world and Western world in the 18, 1900s, but doesn't mean this was across the board in ancient times. So also in Laodicea, they had a medical school. Wow.

We don't think about stuff like that. They had a medical school specializing of all things in ophthalmology. Oh, wow.

Nice. They had two very well-known ophthalmologists who came from Laodicea. One of them was a man by the name of Demosthenes Phalalites. Demosthenes Phalalites actually wrote the textbook on the eye, which was in use until medieval times.

Like the human eyeball. Yeah. Wow. Amazing. Yes. How the reflection happens or, or maybe not that deep about the reflection, but at least about what are the infections of the eye?

Why is this happening? What can you do to slow down the deterioration? What can you do to heal the infections of the eye? Yeah. That's incredible. He studied in Laodicea.

Yes, he did. Wow. And Laodicea also had, along with banking, along with business and medical school, they also had a very thriving textile industry. Hmm.

That's something I always heard about in school, like the textiles that like the exports and the imports of like all these materials that they used to build with. Yeah. Like our town was known for Harriet and Henderson. That's right. That's right. Back when I first came to town in 1999, the Harriet and Henderson mill was still working, still operating. Yep. My grandfather worked at it. Yeah.

I think most, most people back in those days worked at the mill. Was your mom's dad? Mm-hmm.

My mom's dad. Yeah. Yeah.

I remember going to that part of the, the, the city at night where things was kind of quiet down and you would hear those big machines just going, wow. Right. Right. And there were people who lived in the small little homes around there that worked, walked away to to work. And our church, this church Clearview was at one time known as Tabernacle Baptist Church was located. In fact, it was planted in the heart of the mill village. That's right.

That's exactly right. And the pastor or the founding pastor planted it there so that they could reach the mill workers who sometimes were quite rough. You know, many of them came from the mountains and they came just to find a job and it just, they needed Jesus. But Laodicea had a thriving textile industry. The wool of the sheep, these black sheep in Laodicea were beautiful. I mean, they were very prized. The wool was very prized. And then also they made tunics there. You know, tunics were like these robes that go up to your knees and Laodicea and tunics were known for all over the world. I think that's one world.

Right. And that, that's one thing that we're seeing this pattern of these, these churches and these cities, not all of them, but most of them are very prosperous. They have made a name for themselves. Now Laodicea was, it was very proud city, if I may say that.

Proud because of course their prosperity, their business, medical school, textile industry, so many other things. And so just like other cities in the area that were hit by earthquake, earthquakes, I should say plural, Laodicea was also hit by earthquakes. And at times the Roman government helped them, but then there was a time that they actually refused. This was in 8060.

They refused to take the aid from the Roman government. Wanted to rebuild it themselves. Yeah.

They said, we don't need your help. In fact, Laodicea means people's justice. I didn't know that. Yeah. Laus, decale, people's justice or righteousness, something like that. Wow. Like we, we rule ourselves. Like the, like the, we don't need your help. Yeah. Kind of like the, the ideal utopia sort of thing. Right.

Now that name also comes from the name of the queen, Leodice. So we don't know for sure, but anyways, you get the point. Yeah, absolutely. But these people were more than just business people trying to survive or trying to thrive. They were also lovers of art because in Laodicea you find two theaters, one of them on the west side that could seat about 8,000 people. Wow. This is pre-Christ, 200 years or so before Christ.

And then the second one was built about 200 years after Christ to accommodate the growing population of the city. And this one could seat, get ready for this, 12,000 people. Goodness. That is a huge theater.

Yeah. 12,000 people. The theater in Ephesus, you mean you're talking about hundreds of thousands of people. So much, much bigger. But then again, you get the point.

Two theaters, one eight, the other 12,000. And their prosperity is even reflected on their coins. You see these images of cornucopia, right? Cornucopia, everybody knows that.

There's this goat's horn with fruits and vegetables kind of coming. It's kind of mythological idea. But anyways, it was to tell people that we are very prosperous. They understood that they were prosperous and they wanted to demonstrate.

They want to communicate that image to people. Sometimes the coins have corns on them. The Jewish community, and we make a remark about that because we know the first Christians in each of these churches were Jewish background people. The Jewish community in Laodicea was also very wealthy.

In fact, at one time, one of the Roman proconsuls confiscated one of their tides that was going to Jerusalem. It may have been for a couple of months or whatever. 20 pounds of gold. Wow. Right. Goodness. So that's a lot of money. And that's not like for the whole year.

I think it was just for like a season, like all, maybe even a month. Goodness. 20 pounds of gold is a lot of money. So I hope you get the point. They're very prosperous and especially this Jewish community.

I wish I had more time to talk about them. Unfortunately, it was working against them. Yeah. I was wondering like how all this prosperity, like you, you set up the, you set them up to be this prosperous, wonderful people, but at the same time, you know, the warning that's coming, like how does this contribute to their being lukewarm? Yeah. It becomes a hindrance when we make a God out of prosperity.

And it happens in our American culture a lot because God has blessed us, blessed these United States and, and we tend to make a God out of money and success rather than God being God. Yeah. So Laodicea, the Jewish community were prosperous, but at the same time, it did hinder their spiritual life. And by default, the Christians who were coming out of the Jewish community also had the same mindset.

Even though they were saved, they received Christ as the Messiah, but because that's how they grew up, money was right up there with God. Yeah. If not a little above God.

Yeah. Because it sort of, I guess I'm thinking about him saying you've become lukewarm. It's like the money and the success and the prosperity has watered down their need for a spiritual life. Because if I don't, they treat themselves into thinking if I don't have the spiritual life, I'm still okay.

Like I'm pretty comfortable. That happens a lot with us too. Like I'm thinking about people who were raised a certain way or like with a certain set of values and not maybe even not inherently bad, but a lot of times we will default to our programming for lack of a better word. We go back to these things that we were raised on and these values that were instilled in us or that we just kind of developed growing up and the Christian life sort of takes a backseat. Because if I take away all my money and my house and my wealth, I'm going to immediately feel it. If I take away Jesus and I take away like the Bible and my spiritual life and the church, I'm not going to feel it immediately. You know, it's going to take some time to realize how far.

We should, but we probably won't. But that's what I'm saying is like, I think they saw, and maybe just even with us, you start chasing the success because that's going to give me that immediate satisfaction rather than the satisfaction that truly lasts. Nothing new under the sun. And so Jesus had to warn them to change or else. And he begins just like he began all the letters with giving his credentials. And the credentials here are very interesting. Revelation 3.14, and to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, these things says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

Wow. The beginning of the creation of God. That's like taking it to the next level. Like each of them have been very unique and specific, but the beginning of the creation of God, you cannot get any more original than that. Neither can you get more original than the Amen. Amen, Hebrew word found about 130 times in the New Testament.

Jesus used it. Amen. Amen. We translate in some of the translations as verily, verily, but I like Amen. Amen. Because Amen simply means that it'd be so, or that's true.

Just like we say that during a preaching, depends on what tradition you come from. Amen. Yeah, I agree.

That's true. Or at the end of a prayer, in Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen. Which is let whatever this person prayed, I affirm it.

I agree with it. So where do we get this idea of Amen? Well, we know that when John was writing his book, the apocalypse of the book of Revelation, he is of course filled with the Holy Spirit. He's hearing the voice of Jesus, but it's not written in a vacuum. See, we have such an idea that he's sitting there on the island of Patmos, the sun is beating down on his forehead, and he is, you know, just parched and in a trance as he's receiving this and he's just writing things down.

I don't think so. I believe he had before him the scrolls of the Old Testament, especially scrolls like Isaiah, Zechariah, Ezekiel. And here, Amen is actually from Isaiah. Isaiah 65, 16 says, so that he who blesses himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth. And the word actually is Amen. Wow. So he is telling the lay out of scenes, you're blessed, but you should be blessing yourself in the God of Amen.

The God who made it happen. Yeah. Right. That's right. Now a good reminder for everything that he has made happen.

Absolutely. And it goes on to say, he who swears in the earth shall swear by the God of Amen. Amen.

Because the former troubles are forgotten and because they're hidden from my eyes. Something else Jesus is doing when he says, I am Amen, he's telling them, I am the God that Isaiah talks about. I'm no ordinary man. I am fully God, fully man. In fact, I am the God that Isaiah mentions in Isaiah 65.

And I like that you're talking about those early believers being Jewish background believers because they'll immediately, like where we have to kind of sit here and think about that. Okay. Yes. I see. I see the connection.

I think they instantly would have known like, oh, this guy's not. He is claiming deity. Yes. And the second title is sort of like the first one, which is faithful and true. And then the third one, the beginning of the creation of God, we need to be careful. Beginning does not mean that he was the first one that God created. No, it means he is the one in charge for God, the father. He is the one who created everything. He is the one who began the entire creation. That's an important distinction because there are some heretical lines of belief that, that believe that Jesus was the first creation.

He was the first thing that was made by God. Right. And I would love to maybe in the future, take an episode and explore that because people will almost use John 3.16 or other stuff where he's the only begotten son. See, that means Jesus was created. Right.

I would love to kind of dive into that. Begotten, that monoganeis is actually the one of a kind son more than just born of God. And even if you want to say born of God, that's fine. It's a relationship. It's not the process. Right. But he had the relationship of being a son. That's right. And that relationship extends in eternity. That's right.

Both front and back. And hence he is, he is the beginning, it says right here, he's the beginning of the creation of God means he was always there even before creation began. Sometimes English translations really mess things up, but that's who he is. Yeah.

Well, that's the purpose of the show is to kind of dive into those translations and see what those words mean. Right. Yeah. Right. So something else, when Jesus warns this church in Laodicea, his warning is, again, we've already talked about this. He says in verse 15, Revelation 3.15, I know your works that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So you have to turn to that.

Absolutely. We're going to dive into what lukewarm means on tomorrow's episode. But if you guys have any questions or suggestions for future topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. Or you can visit us online at cleareveetodayshow.com.

You can partner with us financially on that same website. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Cleareveet Today. We'll see you tomorrow.