5 Pillars of Intimacy Continued (ft. Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo)

Welcome back, everyone. Today is Wednesday, June the 28th. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com.

That's right. All you guys listening out there, you can help us keep the conversation going by supporting the show. Share it online. Leave us a good review on iTunes, Spotify. Absolutely nothing less than five stars.

We are going to leave a link in the description of this podcast so you can do just that. Positive feedback only. Positive feedback only. The verse of the day today comes from Hebrews chapter 13, verses 20 and 21. Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant make you complete in every good work to do his will, working in you what is well-pleasing in his sight through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever.

Amen. It kind of goes along with yesterday's verse of the day. Jesus knew that the people needed a good shepherd.

They didn't need signs and wonders and party tricks and magic shows. They needed a shepherd, someone to lead them. And what does the shepherd do? He protects his sheep. He feeds them. He nourishes them. He gives them what they needed. Psalm 23 lived out for the people.

Yeah, absolutely. And this verse reminds us that just like God raised Jesus from the dead, just like, you know, Jesus was able to work all those miracles together, that same God is the one who is working in you, working in us, and working every good work together for his will. It reminds us of the faithfulness of God. Sometimes when we look at a situation, we're so blinded by our circumstance, we forget that God is a faithful God.

And he is a God who moves mountains and he's a God who part sees and he's a God who's capable of working in us and delivering us through, not out of, but through the difficult situations in life. I'm glad you said that because there's times in life, and I think we've said this on the show before, but that's one of the benefits of having a daily show is you have new listeners all the time, so you can kind of repeat some things. But, you know, we tend to think that our problems are just to get through.

You know what I mean? The problems that we experience in life are just things that we learn patience through. We just grit our teeth, get through it, and now I'm on the other side. But then that takes all the agency out of why God put that problem in your life in the first place.

That problem is not just something for you to get through so you can trust him. That problem is meaningful. That problem that you're dealing with right now as you're listening to the show, whatever you're dealing with, it's going to be for your good.

You know what I mean? And there's a difference because you don't just get through it and now it's done. That was kind of pointless. It's going to help you in some way.

God works all things together for good. That's right. Absolutely. We're going to get Dr. Shaw in just a minute, but if you guys have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send those into a text at 252-582-5028, or you can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. Stay tuned. We'll be right back.

Hey there, listeners. I'm Jon Galantis, and I'm Ellie Galantis, and we just want to take a quick second and talk to you about Dr. Shaw's and Nicole's book, 30 Days to a New Beginning, Daily Devotions to Help You Move Forward. This is actually the second book in the 30 Days series, and the whole point of this devotional is to help us get unstuck from the ruts of life. You know, when it comes to running the race of life, it matters how you start, but a bad start doesn't ultimately determine how you finish the race. You can have a good finish even with a bad start, and that's where this book comes in.

No matter who you are or where you are in life, you're going to get stuck. Instead of going out and buying some gadget or some planner, like I know I've done several times, 30 Days encourages you to find your fresh start in God's word. Life doesn't have a reset button, but our God is a God who does new things. His mercies are new every day, which means every day is a new chance for you to start over. You can grab 30 Days to a New Beginning on Amazon.com. We're going to leave a link in the description box below, and if you already have the book, let us know what you think about it.

That's right. Send us a text, 252-582-5028. Share what God has done in your life through this devotional. Hey, maybe we'll even read your story on the air. Ellie, you ready to get back to the show?

Let's do it. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. If you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028.

That's right. If today's your first time ever joining us on the Clear View Today Show, we want to welcome you, let you know exactly who's talking to you today. Dr. Abbadon Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. You can find all of his work at his website.

That's AbbadonShah.com. I'm cracking up, because typically Ryan will do the thing where he looks away or checks the phone, but Tony and Elisa are like... I was like, don't break, don't break. Well, I had to remember that, because it's like muscle memory now. When John goes, I'm like, okay, I can like... Yeah, you get like...

But I'm in the same shot now, so I'm like... They were like, say it. Say it. I was just impressed at how you both did it without having your script up there, because even over the years that I've done it, I still look at my script. Like, I don't know.

I know this. You go home and you practice in the mirror at night, dude. You just practice in the mirror at night. Right there. Really what Elizabeth was telling me is like, I'm going to sleep in the bed.

I'm like, you're listening to Clear View Today. I don't have a team over here doing it for me. I'm like doing everything myself still.

What you do is you say it in the mirror, and if you mess up even a little bit, you just take a ruler and whoosh, wrap your knuckles. That will do it. That will do it.

That's why his hands are like, you know... That's intense. I'm good. I'm afraid of myself. I'm like ready.

Let me see your hands, Brad. Y'all, move your mic back. It's okay. It's okay. It's all right. It's going to be okay.

Okay. We're excited. Dr. Shah, just for the benefit of our listening audience, we've already, you know, interacted with you guys, but just introduce us to our special guest. We were on this episode yesterday, but just in case, for whatever reason, somebody dropped into Clearview today, for the very first time today, let us know who's with us.

Absolutely. Well, several years ago, a friend of mine told me about, or told Nicole about this show regarding marriage. And they said they're, you know, they're really upfront and honest, and they talk about some tough issues that, you know, most people don't talk about, especially in Christian circles.

We're afraid to talk about them, but they do. And so she listened to it and then she told me to listen to it or asked me to listen to it. And at first I was like, I don't know about that. I have so much going on. I'm spread out in so many ways and I don't have time to listen to that. And plus I help people in their marriage anyways, just listen to it.

And I did, and I loved it. And since then I have recommended your show to so many people. And for those who are joining us for the first time, Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo, one extraordinary marriage. So welcome to the show again. Thank you.

We're glad to be here. I'm going to put you on the spot. Yeah.

Quick doctor. Sure. Favorite episode? The first one. Really?

Wow. First one. I've listened to so many.

I mean, when we go here or there, we'll stop and listen to them. First one is still going to be my top because I have to go back and listen to it. I really liked the first one because it had such authenticity.

I mean, all of them do, but it has such authenticity, such realness about your struggles. And then to take that sex challenge, you know, we're going to, we're going to have, what was it? Was it 90 days? 60. 60 days sex challenge. And, and for those of you who just perked up when we talked about this, somebody's driving and they're like, whoa, whoa, what was that?

That you drove into oncoming traffic. Yeah. Listen to the first one. And I promise you it will revolutionize your marriage.

It was, it was very hard hitting and because it challenged us to examine, you know, how far we'd come in our own marriage and to build that relationship, the intimacy back. So yeah, first one. And you and Nicole started listening how many years ago now? Oh my goodness. I mean, you're going back, what, seven, eight years ago. That's what I was going to say. I thought it was because we were here the first time, you know, in 2019. So five years ago. Yeah. Right. Wow.

That does not feel like five years ago. I know. That's crazy. Oh yeah. That was five years ago. That's what it is. It's a thing.

That's crazy. Time keeps rolling on. Well, what we want to talk about today, we hinted at it in yesterday's episode. So if you guys missed yesterday's episode, go back and listen to it. We want to talk about the book and really the framework that you guys have developed, the six pillars of intimacy. What, what does that mean? What does that refer to as it relates to an intimacy lifestyle is a big thing for you guys.

What does, what does that mean? Well, I love, you know, Pastor Shaw that you mentioned that that first episode was the one that really it's your favorites when they caught your attention. And for those of you that are just like, what are they still talking about? The first episode is called 60 days of sex. And what became the catalyst for everything that Tony and I do was that we were at a really dysfunctional place in our marriage. We were living like roommates.

We had two little kids. We were doing all this kind of, you know, functional marriage, but not a lot of love, not a lot of connection. And it was in that journey through that 60 day sex challenge that we realized that marriage and very specifically sex and intimacy are not the same thing. And that, you know, really digging into what is intimacy in marriage and how can we have that in a lot of different ways really to create a holistic approach. And that is what became the six pillars of intimacy framework. It was going through that experience in studying marriages over the last 13 years that we realized that intimacy is more than just sex, first of all. And that when you look at strengthening your marriage across these six pillars, you can create really your own extraordinary marriage.

That's something that I think we take to heart here at Clearview as well as just laying a good foundation, getting it right the first time and understanding what those pillars are. Like what are as an organization or as a marriage, what are your core values? What are the things that matter to me? What are the things that matter to us? And then how can we build our lives, build our church, build our faith, build our marriage on those things?

I remember there was a sermon series, Dr. Shaw, that you did and Nicole was up there with you. And you, one of the things was we had a list of words and we had these poster boards designed and we could grab one of those poster boards and choose five core values from that list for your marriage. And that was such a revolutionary concept for Elizabeth and I just to think like, what do we want our marriage to be about? What do we want? Like what kind of impact do we want our marriage to have? It's much more than just like, hey honey, dinner's on the table.

Okay, I did laundry. Like what impact do we want to leave as a result of our marriage? Most people live marriage just, they spend so much on the wedding day. So much purpose is there in planning and prepping and getting ready. But then marriage, there's absolutely no direction. There's no plan.

There's no vision. They're just existing. And so, you know, that series was to help people do the same, at least a percentage of what they do for the wedding day to do it for their marriage.

And in this book, you know, you go through six pillars. I mean, these, again, this is about marriage on purpose. You know, you talk about emotional, physical, financial, spiritual, recreational, and sexual intimacy.

If you notice the physical and sexual are different, but those who don't know. And that was very intentional because even in our own marriage, there were a lot of times that Tony would touch me and my assumption was that he wanted sexual intimacy. And really he just wanted to, like, touch me. He just wanted to have that physical affection and physical connection. And it wasn't until we started to even have conversations around that and understand it that I didn't think that everything was about sex, that it came back into this place of, remember when we used to just hold hands all the way back when? Remember when we used to kiss? Like, let's go back there and enjoy that.

Yeah. And that's a big one for so many couples. I think, again, Alisa and I have been married 26 years. And so over those years, that physical intimacy has changed from that handholding or long kisses when you're first dating or those early years. And as you grow and as things change, that changes and you have children and she's getting, there's a season I remember and Alisa speaks about this a lot is, the children were young and they're just touching her all day long and she's touched out.

And I didn't understand that. Like, why don't you want my affection? Why don't you want my physical intimacy any longer? And so having those conversations later on, we begin to peel back the onion and realize like, wow, had we had the emotional intimacy, the verbal conversation with one another, we could have really skirted a lot of the issues that we had when the kids were young, because we would have had the ability to be like, hey, I'm getting touched out. What can we do so that we do have that physical intimacy, that closeness and connection? I think even just understanding that different forms of intimacy exist.

You know what I mean? Like understanding that there's different, you know, people express or take in intimacy in different ways. Some of them, which I'd never thought about, like for me, I know spending time and being recreational, having that fun time is great, but like for Ellie, like being financially secure, that's not something I even think about.

I grew up pretty comfortable, pretty privileged. And so I don't ever think about, hey, we might not have enough money to do this. I just don't because I know it's going to be there. She's not that way. And so understanding like she needs to feel secure. She needs to feel like that before anything else happens has saved us a lot of heartache because at first it's just like, well, just chill. It'll be, it'll be all right.

It's going to be fine. I don't understand why. You know what I mean? Understanding that that's not an insecurity. That's a form of intimacy.

That helped my marriage a great deal. Can I just say one thing real quick before you, before you come in, at least when we're talking about intimacy and I just want to say this from, from the top, the reason we say six pillars of intimacy is because we really looked at that word intimacy because our society has, as Elisa said, have put that in sex together. Intimacy is sex. Sex is intimacy and it's just come together. And yet being a follower of Jesus, I've heard many a times from the pulpit, a pastor go, Hey, you need to have that intimate time with God.

You need to get that, get that time. And so we looked at what the definition of intimacy and really what it is is closeness and connection. And so as we look at each one of these pillars, financial intimacy in particular, how are we close and connected? You're cool and you could be on your way and yet for Ellie, how are you going to, how are you connecting the dots so that the two of you in your marriage is strengthened?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and making that choice, even if it's something that's not necessarily on your radar screen to step into that place to show Ellie where the security is financially to you know, be doing anything you, you strengthen your marriage and create connection. And that's something that we all, you know, it doesn't matter if we married, you know, two years or 22 years need to be growing and strengthening. How often do people gravitate toward different pillars in marriage? Like for me, it might be physical intimacy, but for Elizabeth, it could be recreational intimacy. How often is there a difference in pillars? So what's really interesting about the pillars and part of the reason why we wrote the book and created this framework is that we didn't want it to become a tug of war in marriage. We wanted it to be a framework that couples could say, you know, all six of these are important and they might, one of the pillars might be more important in a particular season, but you need all six of them being strong to create an extraordinary. So you might be in a season or physical or recreational is more important. And you're like, okay, well let's, let's focus on spending the time together.

But it doesn't mean that the other five just dropped to zero. It's saying, well, yeah, we can go spend this time together, but let's hold hands while we're spending time and let's talk about what's going on with the kids or our dreams or whatever. And let's plan how we're going to do this with, you know, is it going to cost us money to go do whatever we're going to do? And so you can be doing all of these things, but they all get wrapped together to create an extraordinary marriage. That's helpful to think about it as a framework where, I mean, like, just like you said, pillars, if one is shorter or absent, then the structure is going to suffer. If six things are holding it up and one's taken away, I mean, our structure is going to come up. But I also like how you said that there's, there's seasons in life. Cause I think we, we yearn for equilibrium at all times and that's just not realistic of how life works. Right. Exactly. I mean, you know, we've gone through these seasons where initially financial intimacy was not a big deal because we're just surviving, you know, there's not much to manage when everything that comes in goes out. But in time people change. In time Nicole began to change in their thinking that is like, I want security. I want to be more assured that if something happens tomorrow, we're not going to go under because if that is not taken care of, it's definitely going to affect our intimacy in bed. Because if she is worried and anxious about the future, how do you expect sex to solve your problem?

It doesn't work. Spiritual intimacy, that's great that you come together to your devotions, but if financial intimacy is not taken care of, it's going to impact that. And if spiritual intimacy is not taken care of, it'll impact the others as well.

You know? So, so I think they all go in hand in hand. I'm going back to Genesis here after God, you know, put a deep sleep on Adam and he brought, you know, took Medivh and then it says, then he brought her to the man. And Adam said, this is now bone of my bones, flesh of my flesh.

She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man. I mean that, that's that word of intimacy. Like we are one, we are connected and nothing will separate us. And throughout life, there will be things that will try to pull us away. Even kids, even kids will try to pull us away.

I think that's important for people to hear because we don't think about that. In fact, I think a lot of people think that kids are what's going to solve my bad marriage. If we've got kids together, then hey, we'll be stuck together.

We've got to force this thing to work, but it's just not, it's just not the case. And Jon, it's interesting that you bring that up because Tony and I are a really unique place in our marriage. Our youngest is about to be a senior in high school.

She'll turn 18 later this year. And when our marriage was at its worst, she was two. And one of the decisions we were making is, will we stay together for the sake of the kids? And we're about at that point where we could be looking at the last year of our marriage and just having survived the last 15 years instead of saying, you know what, what does it look like to understand a framework to get vocabulary for your marriage? Not just, you know, go through the motions, Dr. Scholack, you were saying earlier, but to really be in this place of saying we're going to, we're going to become empowered to create something in our marriage, not just react to all the winds and circumstances and not just be like, okay, kids are gonna make us better.

No, we're going to be better for the sake of our children and for the legacy that we're going to pass on. That's right. That's right. Where marriages in America today, in the world today, it's sad. It is tragic. And I want to say that because now all kinds of weirdness is happening about who can be what, man can be a woman, woman can be a man, all this kind of, I think we have overextended ourselves. And frankly, now our culture is realizing that all this is craziness and they're looking for truth.

That's right. You know, I said this a while back that all this trans agenda and all this stuff that is happening, they are overextending themselves and they have, you know, now research is coming out that most people are not for this kind of stuff. They want to have a marriage between a man and a woman and a happiness and a joy and a family. And they're realizing that we've gone way too far.

We are off the ledge. And so books like this where you can build your marriage and find that happiness that God has promised. That's what it's about.

Right. And I know some people who have grown up in homes that mom and dad didn't stick together or bad things happen. And you know, you're like, ah, I don't know. It's, you know, down on marriage.

No, it doesn't have to be. There's help available like a podcast, like one extraordinary marriage or six pillars of intimacy or six pillars of intimacy, conflict resolution. These are things use them.

You know, even this, this radio show, we talk about marriage all the time. Learn, grow. There's so much joy there.

You don't have to be miserable. That's right. Right.

That's right. That's one of the things I appreciate so much about you, Dr. Shah, both on this radio show and from the pulpit is that you are not afraid to call truth truth and to do so in a way that's loving and but will point people back to who God is and God's plan for marriage. There was a time in my life where there was a marriage that I really looked up to and kind of like based my understanding of marriage on. So like as Elizabeth and I head into marriage, I'm like, I'm gonna have a marriage like that. And then that marriage falls apart. And it really sent me into a spiral because I knew like mentally, I understand like marriage is God's design and it's not based on this one couple that I looked up to, but I really looked up to this couple and had a lot of my ideas about marriage from this couple. And it's through meeting with you, Dr. Shah, and talking with you and you kind of directing me back to, okay, this is true in this instance, but this is not defined marriage across all platforms. And this certainly does not define your marriage. And through you pouring that time into me and pointing me back to the truth of what God's word says about marriage.

I mean, that really, that was guard rails for me when in the time of my life where it could have been disastrous and I'll be forever grateful for that. Wow. Praise God. Praise God.

And resources like this help us get that joy that God intended. When he brought Eve to Adam, he wanted him to say that. And he did, you know, that spontaneously he just like launched into this wow, you know, and many marriages right now who are listening, you may not have that wow factor.

Are you feeling like, yeah, we used to, or we never had the spark. You know, you often hear that too. We, I know what you're saying, but we never started like that. We were already, you know, no, it doesn't have to be, if you're married, you can have a wonderful marriage. That's right.

That's right. It's something we say often is in because, and especially folks will say like, I've lost the loving feeling, right? Like it's just an interesting thing. Like we can get it or we can't. And really it's, what are we doing? Lisa and I will say often, what can I do? What am I willing to do?

What am I willing to put forth? And then it's also being intentional and taking action. So in any of the six pillars of intimacy, finance, spiritual, physical, how are we being intentional in this area of our lives? And then how are we taking action so we can get that love back? And I can say from my own marriage and Elisa, I think would say the same is that we've had to put in the effort and by doing so, we have those loving feelings and we've seen thousands and thousands of couples who've done the same thing. And I'm not saying it's perfect and yet we still get up each and every day going, we're going to love on one another. How are we going to strengthen those pillars of intimacy? So that way we know that we have each other's back.

Right. Well, marriage, a happy marriage is a daily choice. It's not just, I'm hoping I'm going to get to happily ever after the day that we say I do and something miraculously will happen over the next 50 years to get me there. It's what can I do today to be the best version of myself for my spouse, instead of waiting for them to be the best version of themselves?

Because we don't know what they're going through. But start with you, the person that you look at in the mirror and go, okay, what are you going to do today to create an extraordinary marriage? Yeah.

What are you going to focus on? There are couples who may be listening today and you've already taken that step to walk away. Now if there's abuse or whatever involved, we understand that.

We're not talking about that. But if it's, you know, if you give it to God and take the steps and I would say die to yourself because most times self is the thing that is getting in the way. I think you're exactly right.

You know, Tony, you kind of just mentioned that too. Like we're chasing this feeling and ultimately at the end of the day, that feeling is more for me. It's not for her. You know, that loving feeling that I have is not going to benefit her just because I feel this gushy, you know, surge of emotion. That's not going to benefit my marriage.

That's just so that I can feel good and I can feel validated. But like you said, that commitment to another person, dying to myself, you know, it's not about how do I feel about LA today? It's what am I willing to do for her?

What am I willing to be for her rather than what am I willing to make my emotions feel like? Same thing God said to, Jesus said to the church in Ephesus, you know, you lost your first love. You know, when it comes to our relationship with Jesus Christ or with our relationship with the church body or in our marriage or with our children, you know, you've lost the first love. And the solution was go back. Remember, remember for where you've fallen and repent and do the first works again. First works. You say, well, I don't even have the first works. We just started wrong. Well, here are our resources. We just talked about it. Yeah. You know, rewind this show and listen again.

But there are resources so you can do the first works. Feelings will follow. If you put the card before the horse and say, if I have the feeling, then I'll do this. You have it backwards.

That's right. Well, and you'll never see, you'll never get there because the feelings don't change until the actions do. And when you step into taking even a small step, I mean, in this pose of intimacy, there's a lot of actions I refer to, but I start with calling them baby steps because it's the little things that we do consistently over time that create the big changes. We don't suddenly feel all gushy. It's how do I treat my spouse every day and watch them react to me when I'm loving on them? Those feelings will be there.

That's right. Like in a relationship with Jesus Christ, it's not about the pleasure it brings me, it's the pleasure it brings him. So with the church body, it's not like this is how my church makes me feel. It's how you make people in the church body feel and sense. So also in your marriage, so also with your children, so also with your parents is the pleasure it brings the other person. That's the purpose for which God has created us to serve others. And our world constantly flips it around.

The enemy constantly flips it around, you know, as a me first, me first. No, that's really good. So important for us to understand, especially in the context of marriage. Tony and Alisa, thank you so much for being on this episode with us today. If you guys enjoyed today's episode, or you have questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. You can partner with us financially on that same website as well. Every gift that you give goes not only to building up this radio show, but countless other ministries for the gospel of Jesus.

I do have a closing question, and it's not user-submitted. It is my question. So Dr. Shyla's question is for you, but it's also for you, Tony and Alisa. What is your favorite date that you remember? Not like on the calendar, like date that you went on. Oh, I thought she was going to say it.

January the 4th. I know what Tony's going to say. My fondest memory is when our children were younger. Alisa and I would have one of each, and whoever got the first one down would be the one who would go out, go pick up dinner, and then come back. Usually we'd have a blanket laid out, candles, Yahtzee, and we'd just eat dinner.

Like some music. And to me, still one of my favorites. That's awesome. Yeah.

For me, I remember when Tony planned an entire date, like literally from my clothes down to pre-order dinner at a sushi restaurant and took care of everything. So I had zero decisions to make, and it could be fully present in the moment. Wow. Yay. Very nice.

For me, somebody introduced us to Cooper's Landing. This has been years ago. I'm talking about years, almost 10 years ago. No, wait.

More than that. 2008. That's a long time ago. So that is our favorite place to go. I love going everywhere else, but when Nicole and I go there, it's our place to go. We may be going this evening with these two guys and having a good time.

But that's my favorite day. Very cool. All right. We love you guys. We'll see you next time on Clearview Today. Bye.