Hello, everyone. Today is Wednesday, February the 22nd. I'm Ryan Hill.
I'm John Galantis. You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for future episodes, send us a text at 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearViewTodayShow.com.
That's right. You guys can help us keep this conversation on the airwaves by supporting this podcast. You can share it online. You can leave us a good review at iTunes, Spotify, anywhere where you get your podcasting content from. We're going to leave a couple of links in the description for you to click on, follow, leave us some good reviews. That's really going to help us out.
Appreciate you guys leaving those. We're going to set you up for success. You can set us up for success.
You say that much better than me. Yeah, yeah. We're going to set you up for success, so you can set us up for success. There it is.
That's how it is. Beautiful. You want to deliver the verse of the day?
Yeah, man, I'm ready. It's Mark 8 29. He said to them, but who do you say that I am? Peter answered and said, you are the Christ. And that's the linchpin, isn't it?
That's really, that's like the foundation. That's the, that's Peter's big moment. Jesus puts him on the spot and he says, who do you say that I am?
They've been having this back and forth. Like these people think you're this and these people think you're this. And Jesus says, who do you say that I am? And ultimately, I mean, just like Peter did, that's a question that we're going to have to answer. Not this is what my parents believed about you, or this is what my pastor taught about you, or this is what my Sunday school teacher said about you. This is what I know to be true, that you, Jesus, are my savior, God's son, the hope for mankind. I mean, it's the key to salvation and we love to, we love to not really put Peter down, but we love to kind of try to put Peter in his place.
You know what I mean? We, we love to, I guess, humanize him or, or devalue. I don't know what it is, but we, we, for all of his faults, Peter got it. Peter understood. Well, in just a few verses after this one, Jesus looks at me and says, you're right. No one has, no one has said, said this to you, but the spirit of God has revealed it.
And on this foundation, I'm going to build a church. This is where the name change happens from Simon to Peter. That's right. I love that. You, you look tired. And I hate to say that. I know that's kind of rude to say. No, I'm very tired. What's up?
I have learned something about myself over the course of the past few weeks. I will either go to bed, go to sleep at night at home. I'll either go to bed at eight 30 or midnight.
There is no in between. It is either eight 30 or midnight and I hate both. Why are you, why are you doing that? What's going on at your house? So I, I will, eight 30 is usually about the time we put the kids to bed for school between eight 30 and nine. All five. Yeah. Okay. That's, that's a, that leads into the good question. Which of your kids can put themselves to bed? Like, hardly a no, I assume.
Most can. Okay. Asher likes to be like, kind of, Hey, I'm going to tuck you in and I'm going to give you a kiss and like all that.
He likes all that kind of stuff. But most of the time it's like, Hey, mom and dad, I'm going to give you a hug and then I'm going to bed. Gotcha. They can turn, they all have a sound machine in their room. They can turn their sound machine on and turn the lights off.
They're pretty self sufficient. Asher, I would say is the one who still wants a, wants a little bit, but if, if he had to, he could put himself to bed. So eight 30 there in the bed, eight 30, eight 30, eight 45. And after that, I'm just like, whew. And sometimes I'll just be like, I'm going to sleep. I'm falling asleep on the couch.
I'm like holding my phone, like my doing one of these numbers. I just go to sleep. Or other times I'll be like, Hey, it's my time to finally hang out with my wife. We'll put something on the TV, get a cup of coffee and like get a second wind. Uh, and then like I, it's like midnight.
I'll be like, I look at the, the clock and be like, why on earth did I do this to myself? Cause I'm going to be livid in the morning and I'm exhausted. But either of those options result in a groggy morning, right? The eight 30 is either too much sleep and I'll wake up and be like, Oh, what time is it? Yeah.
Or midnight I don't get enough sleep and I wake up and I have to get the kids up for school and get them ready and neither one is good, but that's the options that I have. And then, and then there's always going to be that person who's doing the obvious like just meet in the middle and go to bed at 10. Oh, thank you.
I didn't think that. Great. Wonderful.
Appreciate that so much. The problem is that I don't ever like feel that moment of tiredness at 10 we're in the middle of something and I look at the clock and it's like, I look at the clock and it's nine and then I look at the clock again and it's like 1145 and I'm like, what happened? I'm in the, yeah, I'm in the throes of despair now where it's like, there's no point going to bed.
I understand. Um, the baby is going to start screaming. I went to bed now. Last night was good. Last night I went to bed, I came home, I was like, Hey Ellie, I'm, I'm dog tired.
I know that you've been with the babies all night, but I need to go to bed. I don't feel well. She was like, okay, that's fine. I was like, Ooh, this is like a unicorn.
Find a unicorn in the wild. I was like, okay. I was like, well, love you. And then she comes in, uh, I think she stayed up till like two o'clock just, I mean, Ellie's a night owl anyway. Ellie's just going to stay up, clean the house, do whatever. But it was good because typically I'll, we'll go to bed around 12 and I'm like just full of dread. I'm like, there's no point at two o'clock.
The baby will be screaming. So then two 30, the baby's like eaten asleep again. Now I'm dreading four o'clock because I know four, three, three 30, four o'clock will be up again. Yep.
So I'm like, should I even go to bed? I understand my friend. I have been there.
Oh man. There, there are times, well you have five times I'd say. Yeah. There are times when like I would, I would just dread going to bed because I knew as soon as I close my eyes, somebody's gonna be crying. It doesn't help when you're in the thick of it.
No, I don't want to be too tired to enjoy those moments. I understand. Be like, that's just kind of what it is right now. It just kind of is what it is.
Yeah. Well I hate that for you. I hope you can go to bed more closer to like nine or 10 tonight.
I won't. Sorry to hear it. Me too. I'll just be tired again tomorrow and that's just wash, rinse and repeat. That's kind of what it is.
That's life. We've got a great show plan for you guys today. We're going to get Dr. Shaw in just a minute, but if you have any questions or suggestions, send us a text to 252-582-5028 or send us an email at contact at Clearview today show.com.
Hey there, listeners. I'm John Galantis and I'm Ellie Galantis and we just want to take a quick second and talk to you about Dr. Shaw's and Nicole's book 30 days to a new beginning daily devotions to help you move forward. You know, this is actually the second book in the 30 day series and the whole point of this devotional is to help us get unstuck from the ruts of life. You know, when it comes to running the race of life, it matters how you start, but a bad start doesn't ultimately determine how you finish the race. You can have a good finish even with a bad start and that's where this book comes in. No matter who you are or where you are in life, you're going to get stuck.
Instead of going out and buying some gadget or some planner like I know I've done several times. I know that's right. 30 days encourages you to find your fresh start in God's word. Life doesn't have a reset button, but our God is a God who does new things. His mercies are new every day, which means every day is a new chance for you to start over. You can grab 30 days to a new beginning on Amazon.com. We're going to leave a link in the description box below and if you already have the book, let us know what you think about it.
That's right. Send us a text 252-582-5028. Share what God has done in your life through this devotional. Hey, maybe we'll even read your story on the air. Ellie, you ready to get back to the show?
Let's do it. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com or if you have a question or a suggestion for a future episode, send us a text to 252-582-5028. Dr. Shah, welcome back to the studio today. How are you today? I'm doing very well. Hope you guys are doing well.
Absolutely. Happy Wednesday to everybody out there. We hope you're having a great day. You're about to have an even better one because you're tuned in to Clear View Today. This is the first time if you've never listened to the show before, we're going to let you know who's talking to you. Dr. Abbadon Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's episode of Clear View Today.
You can find all his work online. That's AbbadonShah.com. That's right. On yesterday's episode, with it being the anniversary of the passing or the recognition of the legacy of Billy Graham, let's put it that way. The anniversary of the recognition of the legacy of Billy Graham. That was a lot of ofs in that statement. I'll work on shortening that.
A lot of big words and a lot of ofs in between. We talked yesterday about the life and legacy of Billy Graham, the impact of his life, the impact of his organization that he started, and how we're still seeing those ripple effects throughout history, even talking about it on today's radio show. One of the things we want to focus on today is the significance of Billy Graham's team. People are very familiar with his name, but they may not be quite as familiar with the team of people that he surrounded himself with.
That's something that we prioritize. That's something that you've instilled in us, Dr. Shah, here at Clearview, is the importance of the team. Do you want to kick off our discussion today about what the role of the team was in Billy Graham's ministry?
Absolutely. I am honored to talk about that subject because my own dad was associated with one of the members of his team, Akbar Abdul-Huk, who was a Muslim convert and made a big impact for the gospel. My dad worked along with him. Akbar Abdul-Huk, I think, was a second generation Christian.
I think his father, if I'm not wrong, was a Muslim convert, but I don't have those exact details in front of me. So much has been said about his team that there is a book out there called The Leadership Secrets of Billy Graham. If you've never read this book, a good one to read. We read it as a team several years ago, and guess what?
We're going through it again. A book is a good book, right? Now, there's no book in the world like the Bible.
We already have set that aside, okay? The Bible is on the top list. It has to be read every day. But there are books that make an impact in your life, and they make such an impact that they should be read again. Because when you read them again, you find things that you did not get to the first time.
And sometimes you get that message in a whole new, special way because you are in a different stage in your life. But this book right here, The Leadership Secrets of Billy Graham by Harold Myra and Marshall Shelley, who are just amazing individuals. Just to quickly tell you, Harold Myra was a CEO of Christianity Today International years ago, not now. And Marshall Shelley was the vice president of Christianity Today and editor of Leadership Journal.
I don't know if Leadership Journal is still out there, but I used to read it back in the day. And they put together what they consider to be the important leadership principles of Billy Graham's ministry. And the place to begin the first chapter is, of course, igniting the passion and the vision and all that. But the second is forming the team.
And that's what we're talking about today, forming the team. And it's funny because a lot of people don't think of leadership when they... I'm sorry, a lot of people don't think of teamwork and leadership, I guess, when they think of Billy Graham. They think of the evangelizing.
They think of those little memes, those Facebook memes that we see where it's just him. It's just one lone man in front of thousands upon thousands of people. Yeah.
Or the power of God or his integrity or his, you know, his adherence to the word of God or his love for his family. And all that is true. That's right. But I think what people don't see and what we've seen, I know definitely what I've seen more and more in my time working here at Clearview is that behind the scenes, there is a strong team making things happen. So that hour on the stage looks so easy and looks so effortless.
And it looks like, man, that alone is winning people. But behind the scenes, there's so much prep that goes into it and there's so much heart and care behind it. Yeah. Like you said, if you don't care about that hour on the stage during the week, then that hour on the stage on Sunday morning really is not going to make that much impact. You have to care just as much about that time on the stage beforehand. And I think that's what made Billy Graham's team so winsome, not winsome, so impactful is that that time was prioritized and made the absolute best it could possibly be.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, he set out from the beginning to put a team together of people who had the same heart, same mind, number one, about the gospel of Jesus Christ, about the word of God, but also a sense of integrity when it comes to personal life. He wanted people who were, you know, honest in their marriages and faithful to their spouses.
And thirdly, I would say he wanted people who were industrious, who were hard working. This team, okay, so I'll give you some name here, Cliff Barrows. You heard of Cliff Barrows, George Beverly Shay, Grady Wilson and his brother T.W., Ted Smith, Walter Smith, George Wilson, Charlie Riggs, and Russ Busby.
These were his, that original team that came together. And like, for example, Cliff Barrows, you know, he has a book out there. Somebody can find the name of that book. That'd be great.
But it's almost like the title is something about being the second, being willing to be the second. That was huge because Billy Graham went to him and said, hey, look, I need you. I can't do this without you.
I need your help. Because he would lead the music and all that. And of course, Cliff Barrows agreed and joined him. And later he wrote his biography.
I think it's something about being second. Cliff Barrows, if you find that book. So anyways, that was him. And then George Beverly Shay. George Beverly Shay lived up to a ripe old age of 104, you know, amazing singer, performer. But I grew up in a Christian home, got saved early in life. All that was great. But then, you know, he was, he had his own music career. And Billy Graham went to him and said, I want you to join with me.
And I promise you, you won't be disappointed. You will be glad that you did because God is moving and I need your help. Yeah. That's how he went to each of them. Initially, I think George Beverly Shay sort of hesitated. He's like, I don't know. I got my thing.
You know, I'm pretty happy where I'm at. All that stuff. But later he joined and thank goodness he did because he was, he's probably the most watched, I guess, performer in the world, in history. Because of course, every time there was a Billy Graham peruse, there's George Beverly Shay singing either How Great Thou Art or singing Just As I Am, you know, some of those famous songs. I'm trying to think what else did he sing?
He's an incredible, I had the opportunity to hear him sing live when I was younger. Did you really? I think I was maybe nine or 10. It was at like a men's conference. And I didn't know at the time who he was.
I was like, oh, okay. And then they said something about him, you know, being on that team with Billy Graham. And of course he gets up to sing and he's, I mean, I can't remember how old he was at that point, maybe in his 90s. But he got up to sing from a chair on the stage. And just when he opened his mouth, just the most beautiful, I mean, just smoothest voice. And it was just, it was stunning. Just even in that old age, just to still have that gift and to be able to turn around and say, you know, I owe everything to God and to Billy Graham believing in me and giving me that platform was phenomenal to hear. That is incredible.
Wow. So, you know, these are those guys. Then there was another team that assembled, you know, these were people who assisted him, names like Harold Jones, Ralph Bell. I think that was Ruth Bell's father, if I'm not wrong. John Wesley White, Leighton Ford, Roy Gustafson, right?
Again, family. Akbar Abdul Haq, I mentioned his name, Robert Conville. And he said it this way, Billy Graham said, without them, burnout would have left me nothing but a shard cylinder within five years of the 1949 Los Angeles Crusade. Wow. He said I would have been done.
I would have been done. That's unbelievable. To have someone like that who, you know, without question, he was the one that was front and center. He was the one who was kind of like in the limelight more so than the other men. And I mean, the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association has his name on it.
The Crusades were tied to his name. But for him to say, you know, without these men around me, this would not have been possible. Right. To recognize, yes, I understand that I was the one behind the microphone. I was the one whose face was attached to everything. But it was not just me.
Make no mistake, without these men, it would it wouldn't have worked. Right, right. Some of the principles that came out, you know, in through this book, there's so much to to talk about here.
But here's one. Cliff saying to said to Billy, I'll carry your bag, go anywhere. Wow. Somebody asked Gritty Wilson, how does it feel to be a caddy for Billy? And you can imagine Gritty Wilson must have felt that sting, you know, and he said, no, of course not. Count it all joy. That's the name of Gritty Wilson's autobiography. So these people were really sold out not only to Lord Jesus Christ, but also to support and help Billy Graham. Well, I mean, there's there's a secureness there, you know, when you can say that.
And I couldn't find the title of that biography. But, you know, you can say, I'm okay carrying your bags. I'm okay being second.
I'm okay supporting you and making your vision come to life. You know that that's God saying, hey, you're secure. Yeah. You know, there's no there's no backbiting. There's no desiring someone else's position. You are secure because this is something this is a place that I've placed you in. Right.
Right. Something else we know about Billy Graham is that they had to guard him because there are people waiting to trap him. You know, those old stories are true from what we heard that, you know, there were people just wanting to smear him somehow, you know, somebody in the closet as he gets in the room and jump out and somebody with a camera taking a picture.
And, you know, by the time you explain and say, no, that was a setup. Well, it's already out. The pictures are out there. And how are you going to, you know, how are you going to fix that problem? Right. Yeah. So they had to make sure that he was well protected.
People would go in, check, make sure everything was safe, clean before he would go in. There's something powerful about seeing so many individuals unite under a common vision, being united under like, we understand what you're doing. We believe in what you're doing and we want to be a part of it. And we want to support you however we can. That's just, that's such a powerful, I remember reading that the first time reading through that book when we read it as a team and just being just captivated by that, that mindset of, I understand what you're doing.
I believe in what you're doing and I want to be a part of it however I can. That's right. You know, in the multitude of counselors, there's safety, you know what I mean? There's like, there, you know, that when there's people around me that I trust and people who are willing to protect me, like you said, Dr. Shaw, there's safety. And then with this safety, there's freedom and we can, we can preach and we can do what we came here to do without having to worry about stumbling or without having to worry about watching our backs. Right. But what you said right there, you know, let me, let me use that as a jumping off point when you said we came here to do what we came, we, we did what we came here to do. Right. Talking about a mission. Billy Graham was known for being laser focused on his mission. That's right.
And he was getting it from his, not necessarily mentor in real life because deal Moody had already died by that point. Billy Graham came along, but deal Moody had a motto, which was consecrate, then concentrate. And Billy Graham took that as his motto as well. I love that. Consecrate means surrender yourself, give it all to the Lord. Now let's concentrate.
No fooling around, no wishy washy, no back and forth. No, none of that. Let's do the task. Right. And that's, that's what his team did. Yeah.
It was not just sitting around and things are happening, but no, they went after it. And I mean, that's even true for us. Like as Christians, if you truly believe that God has placed a calling on your life, if you truly believe that he has you doing this and he's called you to preach or to lead worship or to support your pastor or to support your local church, if that's something you truly believe you can't balance, I mean, you can't like juggle all that stuff.
You have to be laser focused. All these other things in life that we try to just fit God into or fit the mission into. Yeah.
It'll never work that way. Yeah. That's one of the things that has made such a profound impact on me just working here alongside you, Dr. Shaw, is the emphasis that you've placed on the team and on building together this team that impacts beyond what any one of us could individually. It's something to where, I mean, reading those words in that book about the leadership secrets of Billy Graham and just how there was this team of people who united under a common vision with Billy Graham at the helm, and then they united underneath that.
It was like a light bulb for me. That was the moment where I was like, that's what I want my life to be about. That's what I want my life to look like is to be united with you and to partner with you in making your vision a reality because that has become my vision. And to see that level of teamwork, that level of coordination, I'd love that consecrate, then concentrate.
To see that sort of played out in even this radio show is, I mean, it's phenomenal. It's the answer to prayer. Absolutely. And kind of taking that as a springboard point, when you are in a ministry like that, whether it's Billy Graham and his team or our team right here, it will automatically naturally draw critics. There will be people who will oppose it. There'll be people who will attack it. There'll be people who will be upset about something. It's the nature of growth.
So this team also had to learn how to withstand critics, how to deal with people like that, who will be unfair, unjust, mean, hateful. And you can't just say, well, that's it. I'm done. I'm out. No, you're not done.
You're not out. You have to take care of the event that comes up next. You have Wednesday night to worry about.
No, you cannot be sent them hoping. You got Sunday morning messages coming up. Saturday night, you have a program going on in the community. You have the book to write. You have radio show to record and film.
You got things to do. And can you imagine Billy Graham and his team? And of course they made mistakes, right? We talked about that in our first show. So imagine having to deal with all this criticism and still not giving up.
That's right. You instilled in me years and years ago, this idea of there's always going to be critics in your life. There's always going to be people who criticize you, but some of those critics are actually your coaches.
There's always a difference. And you told me this, you said, I always, anytime someone criticizes me, I always think, is this person a critic or are they a coach? Do they want me to succeed? Or is it just, Hey, everybody, look what this guy did. You know, are they trying to expose me or are they trying to build me up?
Right, right. And when, once you know that, then you can go, okay, all right, I listened to you because you have my best in mind, you know? And so, so also in Billy Graham's ministry, they had critics, but here's something that Billy Graham was very good at, or the Holy Spirit through him, which is he was not mean to his critics.
He did not become hateful, mean, angry, resentful, bitter. Instead, he was like, okay, all right, I see what you said. I can't give in to you, but at the same time, I'm not coming after you. I'm going to leave you alone. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to give you grace. I'm going to maybe even share the gospel with you. And that's, that's very important.
His team was like that too. Wow. Willing to love the person, right? Willing to show compassion even to his enemies. That's hard to do. It's one thing to say, but it's much harder when that criticism is actually flying at you or you're reading about it second hand, like somebody's published an article or somebody's put a post out there and they're criticizing what you, not just what you're doing, but what you've devoted your life to. It's much, it's much more difficult to then show that grace and show that compassion.
And like you said, even, even share the gospel with those people. And then there's learning from mistakes and then there's seeking the truth. You know what I mean? Like, like reading that article or reading that like smear piece and having to like being angry and being hurt, but then actually looking at it and go, is it true? Is there some truth? Like, can I, even if I don't engage this person or if I don't fire back at this critic, is there something that they said that's true that I can fix?
What can I learn? Yeah. And then something else about him and his team was that they were very optimistic, very hopeful. I mean, you don't set up, you don't set up tents and crusades and gymnasiums and football fields and you feel like this ain't going to work. That's true.
That's true. They had no, I mean, there was no like headcount of people who were coming. They didn't know, yeah, we'll have this many hundreds of thousands of people.
It was like, well, just plan and God's going to bring them. And just to have the optimism across the board, not that one person like, well, I don't really know. I don't know these days. It's too cold. I don't think people are going to show up. People don't go for that sort of thing. The team had to be optimistic and hopeful and courageous. If I may add something to that, I mean, they had to be courageous. You know, where we are in our country today in our world today, especially in Christendom, it's hard to find courageous people. And this is why our people around us, our young people are struggling because they don't have enough strong, good models to follow.
Right. I think it was Billy Graham who said that or some form of it, which is when courageous people stand up, the spines of the weak are stiffened. And it's important to talk about this because it would be very tempting to listen to this radio show and be like, man, these guys really love Billy Graham, but this is your ministry team we're talking about. This is, you know, your team has critics. You might not think so, but your team has critics. Your team can benefit from being courageous. Your team can benefit from being men and women of integrity.
This is your ministry team. I mean, we read this book, not just because we're Billy Graham super fans, but we want to be a team that has the impact that they had. Right.
Exactly. Something else that I would say about Billy Graham and his team was that with time, they kept changing. The gospel didn't change. The word of God didn't change. Their messages didn't change, but they changed in the sense of they adapted to the new world.
Okay. One way you can see that is Billy Graham's hairstyle. What we're saying here is that he was willing to be like Paul who said, I'm all things to all men, all people so that I may win some beautiful. That's what Billy Graham was doing. Absolutely. And that I appreciate you bringing that out so much, Dr. Shah, and you holding up Billy Graham's team as an example for us, not just here on this team, like you said, Jon, not just here on this team at Clearview, but for all of you, for your team that you're a part of, for your organization, that's the model.
That's the example of how you can have a legacy, have an impact beyond your life and have a lasting thumbprint on the pages of history. If you guys enjoyed today's episode, you have questions or suggestions for future episodes, send us a text at 252-582-5028, or you can send us an email at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com. That website is also where you can partner with us financially. There's a little donate button there.
And every gift that you give goes not only to building up this radio show, but countless other ministries for the gospel of Jesus Christ. Amen. I got a question coming in from, oh, I just had it. Michael W. Smith himself. Yeah.
Believe it or not, if you could travel back in time and witness only one of Jesus' miracles, which miracle would it be? Oh my goodness. You guys got some great questions. Whoo-wee. I like that. I like that feeding of the 5,000. That's what Ryan said too.
That's what I was going to say too. It's not five. It's like 30,000 if you had the women and the children, right? The Bible says, not counting the women and children.
So 30,000 people getting fed by five loaves and two fish. Oh, I want to see that. I'd love to see that. If I could be not on the boat, I think I would choose to walk in on the water. I don't want to be on the shore somewhere. Yeah, I would want to be on the shore kind of floating Mario camera style, just kind of floating and see it. But I would love to see the walking on the water. And Lazarus coming out of the grave is not too bad either.
That would be pretty cool. Man, that's a hard choice. Yeah, there's a lot. Once you start, because once you start talking about it, you're like, oh, what about this one? What about this one?
Yeah. Write in and let us know what you guys would pick. We love you guys. We'll see you next time on Clear V Today.
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