Can I Lose My Salvation (pt. 1)

Hello, everyone. Today is Tuesday, January the 17th. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart with the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayshow.com, or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for future episodes, send us a text at 252-582-5028. You can also email us at contact at ClearviewTodayshow.com.

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Did you know our podcast on Audible? I did. What I don't know is why you're wearing a hood. Because it's cute. No, it's not.

What are you doing? It's cute. Is it cute? No. I've said that. It's not cute.

People on the radio. What part of no did you not understand? It's cute if I wear it on the back. Hold on. Wear it on the back of my head.

It's my phone. Thank you, David. All right. The verse of the day today comes from Psalm 2, verses 11-12. Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the sun, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in him. It's not a very scary verse. It's not a very happy verse of the day.

But you know what's funny? We can't take for granted God's holiness. We cannot take for granted his power. I feel like it's in those moments where we really comprehend just how mighty he is.

It makes his grace that much sweeter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We oftentimes think of God as either a God of wrath, who's ready to zap us with a lightning bolt, or a God who is just all love and everything's all good, no consequences for anything, when in fact God is both just and loving. And it's not that he's half and half.

It's that he's 100% both, and it does not contradict his nature to do so. Yeah. Absolutely. Wow.

That's uplifting. So, we kind of cut the intro a little bit short today. Well, because we've got a big topic. We do have a big topic.

An important one. Yeah. It's something that people have been asking for. Yeah.

So, we want to get to that content and give as much time for that content as possible. We're going to go get Dr. Sean in just a second. But if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028, or visit us online at cleerviewtodayshow.com. Make sure you're also following us on all of our social media, as well.

Yeah. You can watch the video episode on cleerviewtodayshow.com. You can also watch it on our Facebook page, Cleerview Today.

That's right. We'll be right back. Well, good morning, afternoon, evening, Cleerview Today listeners. My name is Jon. And I'm David.

And we just want to take a quick second and let you know about another way that you can keep in touch with Dr. Sean's work, and that is his weekly podcast series, Sermons, by Abidhan Shah, Ph.D. As a lot of you may know, or maybe some of you don't know. If you don't know, you do now. And if you don't know, then maybe just hop off the podcast. David, hop off the podcast. I'm just playing.

I'm just playing. Keep listening. Dr. Shah is actually the lead pastor of Cleerview Church in North Carolina. Every single weekend, he preaches expository messages that challenge and inspire us to live God-honoring lives. Well, one of the four core values of Cleerview Church is that we're a Bible-believing church. So every sermon is coming directly from Scripture, which is great because that guarantees that there are timeless truths that are constantly applicable to our lives. This is a great resource because whether you're driving, whether you're cleaning the house, whether you're working out, you can always benefit from hearing the Word of God spoken into your life. And God's Word is always going to do something new for you every time you hear it.

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All right. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abidhan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart with the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at cleerviewtodayshow.com, or if you have any questions or suggestions for future episodes, send us a text at 252-582-5028. Dr. Shah, welcome back to the studio today. How are you doing? I'm doing very well. Hope you guys are doing well.

Doing well. I saw Ryan tried to fake you out there while you were drinking coffee. I did. I'm sorry.

I didn't have it in my peripheral. No, look, it's all good. It's all good. It's all good.

It's all good. I don't know if Nick called that. So years, eons, millennia ago, I worked as a waiter, and one of the worst feelings is when you ask a table a question and they've just taken a bite of food, it's like, how's everything tasting? It like falls out on the table. I guess good.

There goes the tip. Now, well, if you guys are new with us, if you're, I almost said if you're new and visiting with us, I've got the church welcome in my head. If this is your first time ever tuning into the show, we want to welcome you. If you're unfamiliar with Dr. Shah's work, Dr. Abaddon Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism. He is a professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. If you want to follow his work, you can do so at AbaddonShah.com.

That's right. Make sure you check out his Facebook page as well as Public Figure's Facebook page, AbaddonShahPhD. You'll see lots of important updates there, lots of great content, scholarly articles, things that you can benefit from. So make sure if you're not already, make sure you follow him on Facebook there. Absolutely. So in today's episode, we began a conversation on yesterday's episode, Dr. Shah, talking through the book of Hebrews, talking about, you know, why is church essential?

Why does that matter? And we had some people write in and say, you know, I'm really interested in this idea of church being essential, especially as it relates to our salvation. Can we lose our salvation?

What does this mean? And lots of people want to know more information about that. So I was wondering if it's okay with you guys, if we could just take a deeper dive into the book of Hebrews as a whole today. Sure.

Sure. Well, Hebrews is one of my favorite books in the New Testament. And the reason being is, of course, I believe it's Paul's letter. So I was just about to ask you, do you believe that Paul wrote it?

Yeah, I believe so. And there are very reputable scholars who just laugh at that. Really? They just laugh at the idea that I would even suggest that Paul had anything to do with Hebrews. And they have a list of things that they point to and say, this is not Pauline. This is not Pauline. This is not Pauline. But there are just as well reputable scholars on the other side who say, this is Pauline. This is Pauline.

This is Pauline. Right. And so we, you know, we're not going to get into that in this radio show. Save it for another episode. We can do that another time.

Save it for another episode. Yeah. But I believe Paul wrote it.

Okay. But I believe that this was written very sort of early on in his ministry. You know, we typically put Paul's letter to the Ephesians or something like that, like very early on. Right.

The one of his first letters. I believe the Book of Hebrews was probably written pre-8070, pre-temple destruction. And reason for that is, if you look at it carefully, you see a lot of references made to sacrifices, you know, the Holy of Holies and things like that, which means it is still standing there. If that place is gone and for me to be talking about it as if it's still there, something's not right, you know, we're not designed that way to talk about things in the present as if they're gone.

Yeah. You know, I can't be talking about the Empire State Building. No, I can talk about the Empire State Building. The Twin Towers. The Twin Towers. Right.

Yeah. As if like, yeah, the Twin Towers is standing. And when you think about the Twin Towers, well, wait, they're gone. They're gone.

Unfortunately, sadly, you know, they were destroyed. So 20 years ago. Yep. Yep.

As if they're still standing, which means they're still standing, which means I'm talking pre-2001. Yeah. That's true. So Book of Hebrews, I believe, was pre-8070. Okay.

Okay. That's one thing we know for sure. Where does this idea, or I guess why are people so fixated on this idea that you can lose your salvation? Like, where does this come from in Hebrews and why is it such a sticking point for some people?

It's almost like some people want it to be true. Yeah. Yeah. There are two combinations and doctrinal systems that are built on Hebrews. Okay. I mean, Hebrews is the linchpin. I mean, this is the one.

Because there are five warning passages in the Book of Hebrews. Can I quickly go over them? Yeah, please. Okay. The first one is Hebrews chapter two, verses one through four. Okay. Okay. So just to give you one reference of that would be Hebrews 2.1, therefore, we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. Drift away. Drift away to where? Well, people have kind of filled in the blanks and drift away to lostness.

Okay. There's another one in Hebrews chapter four. But let's begin there in chapter three, verse seven to chapter four, verse 13. And here in Hebrews 4.11, it says, let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. Fall according to the same example?

I mean, does that mean that someone can fall away? Right. Right. Okay.

Here's the third one. This is Hebrews chapter five, verse 11 to chapter six, verse 12. So let me just read Hebrews 6.4 through six. Okay. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and have tasted the heavenly gift and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit.

I mean, you cannot get more saved than that. Right. Right. And have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God and put him to an open shame.

I mean, what do you do with that? I can see that it's impossible for those who were once enlightened, who were once saved, if they fall away to renew them again. Yeah. That's tough. Right. All right.

So let's keep moving. Here comes number four, which is Hebrews chapter 10, verses 19 through 39. But for time's sake, I'm just picking out a couple of verses there for each of these five warning passages. This is Hebrews 10, 26 to 27 in this fourth section. For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Oh, what do we do with that? Yeah. Right.

And then the last one, which is the number five, the fifth warning passage, which is chapter 12, verses 14 through 29, for time's sake, I'm simply reading verse 25 of chapter 12. See that you do not refuse him who speaks. For if they did not escape, who refused him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from him who speaks from heaven.

There's a phrase, turn away from him. Yeah. Yeah. Like we were there and then we turned away.

Yeah. And it's tough because they definitely imply or it can be made to imply by our faulty reasoning, I think, that you can lose your salvation. I can see why people would base their mindset on this or their theology on this because it is on the surface pretty laid out and spelled out. At just a glance, it seems pretty cut and dry. I mean, just from these verses, just looking at these outside of any kind of context, just looking at these verses right here, it's like, I mean, that's kind of, it seems airtight. Do you think this is somewhere where Occam's Razor kind of works against us, where I'm just going to take the most obvious one because that's probably true?

Not Occam's Razor in its truest sense, because in the truest sense, it has to be something clear, but it's not clear unless you take the context. So without taking the context, what you're thinking is clear is actually a mistake, right? So what is the context? So you have to, when it comes to exegeting a passage, when it comes to applying the principles of hermeneutics, you begin with the wider context and then narrow it down to that passage.

What is the wider context? Well, to start with, it is a book that has been addressed to the Hebrews. What is Hebrews, what is that name Hebrews all about? Jewish people. It's the ancient designation of not just the Jewish people, but the people of Israel. So often in my messages, I will sometimes say Hebrews. Then I will say children of Israel. Then I will say the Israelites. Then I will say the Jewish people, okay, why do I use these different designations? Yeah, because most people would assume they're interchangeable. At times the book of Isaiah and a couple of other places do that. But that is not really the best gauge to interchange these things, other than when the Bible itself does it.

But it does it for a reason. For example, will I call John Smith, you know John Smith, the Jamestown colony, will I call him an American? Yeah, that's true because there was no America, probably not. I wouldn't say that to him. Will I call, let's see, Abraham Lincoln a pilgrim? No. No.

Why would I do that? That's past the point of the pilgrims that we're now Americans at the time of Abraham Lincoln. So also when it comes to these titles, you have to keep the time in mind. When the people were in Egypt, they were referred to as the Hebrews because they were coming from the north. They didn't know them as the sons of Jacob or Israelites. They just knew that these are the Hebrews coming from the north.

And I know there are scholars who think Hebrews are different from the Hebrews, but I believe they're one of the same thing. When they left Egypt, they're the children of Israel. Why children of Israel?

Because they are just as naive and helpless as children. Wow. I hadn't considered that in the designation. I just thought children of Israel Israelites. Like the lineage. And there is a place where the armies left Egypt and all that. So yeah, they were not like little kids running around.

Of course, it's more metaphorical. Then there is the Israelites, who are the Israelites. These are the people who are now in the promised land. They had settled. That was their land. They became a nation.

That makes sense. You know, Passover made them a nation. But then you have the Jewish people because some of the tribes are gone.

Ten tribes are gone forever. So they weren't the Jewish people until it was Judah now. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. When you talk about it in those terms, everything just kind of clicks. Yeah. Because Jewish people, Hebrews, Israelites, children of Israel, if you don't know it, it's just like, yeah, that's this people. But it's this people according to what time period they're in, what's going on around them.

Right. So they became the Jewish people. Do I know hermeneutics now? That's a cool feeling. But there are times when God will, like in the book of Isaiah and other places, where he will address them as you Israelites.

It'll call them by an ancient name. Like for me today, sitting here, I didn't grow up in America, but I became an American citizen. I am an American. Right.

I'm an American. But for somebody to look at me and say, what do they call the Jamestown colony? You colonists. Yeah. Hmm.

You know? Okay. For one, I'm not a colonist, but for you to address me as a colonist, what are you trying to get at? Right. You're trying to get at the fact that you are a bunch of rebels. You have turned your back on the mother country. You think you are strong enough, big enough, powerful enough to stand up to the redcoats, whoever the redcoats are now in this generation. See, so they can call me a period, what do I say, colonists? Yes.

But it better have some reasons behind it. Yeah. They're not mistaking what time period you're from. They're not making a mistake. They're trying to make a point.

It's a pointed reference. Yeah. So when Paul, I believe, Paul, right? Right. This is my radio show. That's right.

Yeah. You can see Paul. Hey, look, for the next 10 minutes, it's Paul.

Hey, and if you have any questions about that or if you want to know more about why Dr. Shaw believes that it's Paul, write in and let us know, 252-582-5028. But don't at him. Don't at him. Yeah. We'll block your number.

That's too funny. No, no. We love you guys.

We were so glad you're listening. So, so here's, why did he call them Hebrews is because he is making a point. And the point is this, he's talking not just to the Jewish people in Palestine, but he's also talking to the Jewish people who are scattered all over through the diaspora. And there may also be people in that list who are not Jewish, but they are part of the lost tribes. Okay.

He's addressing all of them who are now maybe sitting in Rome at a church where are, who are you? Well, I am a, I am part of the lineage of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Okay. All right. But you're not necessarily Jewish, are you? No, I'm not Jewish. I come from the tribe of Levi or I come from the tribe of Reuben or tribe of Simeon. Okay.

All right. Or are you sitting in Persia? Are you sitting in, you know, modern day Iran back in those days and well, are you Jewish? Well, not really, you know, we were the ones who came here from Judah, but since then we intermarried with some other people who are part of the other tribes. We are part of God's people. So you see how, how, how, how inner complex this is.

Yeah. The whole point is this, when you read this letter carefully, what you find it, find is that Paul was addressing this to not the first generation, but the second generation Jewish background believers, wherever this church is, we don't know for sure where this church is that Paul was writing to or churches to whom Paul was writing. But this is a group of people who are second generation. How do we know second generation? Because in Hebrews chapter one and verse one, it says, God, who at various times in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets has in these last days spoken to us by his son, whom he has appointed heir of all things through whom also he made the world who being the brightness of his glory express image of his person and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sin, sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels as he has by inheritance obtained a better, a more excellent name than they.

Okay. All those references that are given to the prophets, the majesty on high, the word of his power, they won't make any sense to Gentiles. This is talking about people who claim this ancient lineage, but then in Hebrews 5, 12 for though by this time you ought to become, to be teachers, you need someone, I'm sorry, Hebrews 2, 3 is what I want to read first. How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first, you're still with me on that, which had the first began to be spoken by the Lord and was confirmed to us about those who heard him. So these people did not get saved through Jesus's ministry. They got saved through the ministry of those who had heard Jesus. It's starting to make sense because if these Jewish believers or if these Hebrew believers that, that Paul is writing to our second, third generation, then it's very natural that they will start to slide away, right? It's natural that they will start to, I'm starting to see, I'm not quite there yet, but I'm starting to see where Paul is going.

These guys are turning away. Right. And I'm taking my time explaining this because if we do it quickly, people still go, ah yeah, but it still doesn't make sense because everything I read is saying that once you are saved, you can be lost. Right. So we have to come back and really pay attention to these markers, these clues that are in the text. So first began to be spoken about the Lord and was confirmed to us that some time has passed.

Okay. Some time has passed. So these are second generation Jewish background believers. They're part of a bigger church. We don't know exactly what has been happening in this church that is making this group detach itself from the church. Right. Isn't that what it says in Hebrews chapter 10, 24, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as is the manner of some, some, some means the whole church is not, hasn't stopped coming. Right. The church is still meeting. But this group right here of second generation Jewish background believers is detaching itself is sort of, we haven't seen them in a while. Yeah.

What's going on with them. But now when you pay attention to the context, read those, those first five, six chapters, Paul is in a sense, even chastising them. He's telling them in verse 12 of chapter five, I started reading this earlier for though, by this time you ought to be teachers. You need someone to teach you again, again, the first principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food means you're going back to the elementary principles. What's what's wrong with you?

Right? Why are you going back? Why are you retreating in your faith? But then if we pay attention to the whole four or five chapters, Paul, I believe spends time telling them how Jesus Christ is superior to everything in the Old Testament.

What is he superior to? I mean, just this, let's just pay attention to this just for a few minutes. So Hebrews chapter, let's begin in chapter two, all right, and try to find that passage here. If you have it, go for it. See if you can find it. Hebrews 2, starting in verse one. Yeah, yeah. What does it say there?

It says, therefore, we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard. Okay. All right. So let me back up even for a second. Okay.

Let's back up a little bit further. For the back, Hebrews 1.5, for to which of the angels did he ever say, have you are my son today? I have begotten you. So Jesus is superior to the angels. Right.

Right. Now chapter two, and let's go to verse five. For he has not put the world to come of which we speak in subjection to angels. He's superior to angels.

What else? Let's go down here. Hebrews chapter three, verse one, therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, who was faithful to him, who appointed him as Moses was also faithful in all his house. For this one has been counted worthy of more glory than who? Hebrews chapter three, verse three, hang on. For this one has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, Moses, right? So there you have it again, going down over here, it talks about the rest that the people of Israel failed to receive in the wilderness. But then go to Hebrews 4.14, seeing then that we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the son of God, let us hold fast our confession. We do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses.

The high priests of Israel were wonderful people, but they could not truly connect with God's people. Let's see. So he's also superior to the angels. What else do we have here?

Let's keep going here. Hebrews 6.13, for when God made a promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no one greater, he swore by himself saying, surely blessing, I will bless you multiplying, I will multiply you on and on. Verse 19, this hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus having become high priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek. But Jesus is even greater than Melchizedek, right? If you keep reading chapter seven, then going down to chapter eight, you know, talking about the sacrifices, what is that passage at? You know, the blood of bulls and goats passage here, you know, that even, you know, here it is Hebrews 9.13, for the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh.

How much, what's the word more, more shall the blood of Christ. Now I know our time is up, but I want to come back and pick this up because all of these imageries will not make sense to a person who was purely Greek, or Arab, or Egyptian, or Syrian, or Mesopotamian, or some Persian. This makes sense only to Jewish people, i.e.

the Hebrews. So second generation Jewish background believers are being told, why are you going back to the inferior things of the old religion? Right. Falling away and fading back and going back has a very different meaning to them than it does to us.

Because we here fall away and think, okay, you're just not a Christian anymore. Right. To them it was, you're going back to the old why, right?

That's ludicrous. Right. All those things are pointing to him. He is superior to them and he is the fulfillment of them and you're going back to the shadows.

So it had nothing to do, maybe not nothing, but it was not about losing salvation and going to hell. No. No. Got it. Maybe we can cover that next show.

Yeah. Let's cover it tomorrow. That's awesome. If you guys enjoyed today's topic or you have suggestions for future episodes, make sure you let us know by sending us a text at 252-582-5028. Or you can also visit us online at cleaviewtodayshow.com and you can support us financially on that same website. We're grateful to all of our giving partners, grateful for this partnership that we've established with you and our Clearview Today family, and grateful the impact that we have because of your support and the number of lives that we can reach with the gospel.

That's right. The question for today comes from Thomas G. For you, Dr. Shah. Okay. Thomas wants to know, what Bible translation do you personally use for study? Personally, I use the New King James translation. And of course, that comes from my understanding of the text. I feel like the Byzantine text form is better, but not for a single iota of a minute.

Do I think that NIV is evil, or ESV is bad, or NASB is horrible, or CSB, none of that. I prefer it for a textual reason. Neither am I against the King James version. That's great if you like that, but I'm not a King James only. Do you use New King James across the board, like for personal devotion, for study?

Just use it for all? I do. But I'm not against using the NLT. There are people who are like, oh, NLT, that's a paraphrase. I know that. But sometimes it sheds light.

Look at it as a pastor, your favorite pastor, reading the Bible and explaining to you. That's a great point. That's a good point. Just look at it like that. And other than that, don't fuss about it. That's right. Well, Thomas, hope that's helpful for you. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.