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Now let's jump in. We've talked about God the Father, we've talked about God the Son, but now there's God the Holy Spirit, the one that we think we know about, but really goes much deeper than we ever give credit for. Let's enter that conversation right now, coming up on the Clear Vee Today show. You're listening to Clearview Today without Drawbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.
I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Show. We're glad you're joining us here in the studio with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah. And if you're listening for the very first time today, we want to hear from you.
We want to know your story, how God is working in your life.
So text the word today, T-O-D-A-Y to 252-429-6069. Dr. Shah, praise the Father. Praise the sun. Praise the spirit.
That's right. Three and one.
Now, Dr. Shah, our listeners, I feel like we kind of get the spirit, right? We kind of understand because I've seen Star Wars. Like, I know about that. I know.
Force says what did Yoda say, man? Yoda said wise words. My ally. is the force. Powerful ally it is.
That's not the Holy Spirit. That's not the Holy Spirit. Luminous beings are one. Not the Holy Spirit. Neither is he some energy field.
Oh. No. He's not like the progenitor of all life in the galaxy, this unseen sort of mystic wave that's kind of floating out there in the world. He's not tied to your Mediclorian count. Don't even with me.
I don't even want to get started on that. Dr. Shah, how do we understand the Holy Spirit? Because a lot of people think that way. He's missed.
So, to begin with, He is a person. I just want to say it as clearly as possible. Just like you are a person, you are a person, I'm a person. The Holy Spirit is a person, he is not a thing. He's not just some force or some energy field.
He is a person.
So a person has feelings. The Holy Spirit has feelings. I hear what you're saying. You're saying, like, he's a dove, he's like a bird. Right.
No. No. That's how he's often depicted. Yeah. Even on certain denominational icons.
But he's not a bird. He's not a bird. He's not like a dove. He's not a bird. He descended like a dove.
what appear to be But it was not a dub. Right, right, right. Yeah. In the manner of a dove, not in the Body and shape of a dog. We're being kind of silly, but I think a lot of times we talk about the Holy Spirit's role, what He does for us, without talking about really who He is in the Godhead.
But this episode, we're going to focus on that and go deep. And again, I want to say with all reverence possible that he deserves. All the respect and honor that is due to God the Father and God the Son. And often he has been neglected. But then the people who have.
Put attention on the Holy Spirit have done it for the wrong reasons, for the wrong outcome. And that's also a problem. Right. So, lack of attention. But also Wrong attention.
Both of those things. have to be replaced with biblical Perspective on the Holy Spirit.
So let's back up. Who is the Holy Spirit? He is the third person of the Trinity. He guides men and women. Boys and girls, into all truth.
He exalts Jesus Christ. He convicts of sin, righteousness and judgment, He cultivates Christian character. He comforts believers. bestows spiritual gifts by which believers serve God, And he seals the believer unto the day of final redemption.
Something else. His presence, the Holy Spirit's presence in the lives of believers, is the assurance of God to bring us into the fullness. of the stature Of Christ. The Holy Spirit does all of these things. And oftentimes, he is reduced to some force or some disembodied power.
We have a concept of what a father is, God the Father. We have a concept of what a son is, and we see pictures of Jesus and like storybooks and stuff. But the Holy Spirit is...
Sort of this mysterious other part that we don't really understand. We kind of represent a sub-person, right? It's more of a function, right? It's more not necessarily even a mathematical function. It's just his job is to bring you into the presence of God without giving him the credit that he is God.
Right. It's like a wind that pushes you in. Right. But no, he's not just a wind, he's a person. And I think that's where we need to really understand Honor him.
But also, we're going to see later on in this episode, or maybe the next one. Where when we honor him, He will tell you to go honor the sun. He will lead you to the Son.
So, when you start honoring the Holy Spirit, like some of the churches, denominations will say, We need to honor the Holy Spirit, brother. We need to be focused on the Holy Spirit. We're not doing enough worship of the Holy Spirit. If you try to worship the Holy Spirit, He will take that worship and deflect it towards the Son. That's what He does.
That's a great point. And maybe we can get into that in a little bit because I do want to. Latch onto that because I think that's a really great, not only just a great thing that shows how God functions within the Godhead, but I think it's also a point. Of reference for us to always focus our attention on Christ. But talk to us a little bit more about the person of the Holy Spirit.
Who is this person?
So the Holy Spirit is also God. fully God, who specially manifests God's presence to us. Fully got who specially manifests God's presence to us. And what does that look like?
So let's just walk down. Let's look at the person of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is on the same level as the Father and the Son. Same level. He's not God's butler.
No, no, no. He's not somebody. He's not some usher that kind of points you in one place or another. He is God. He's not demigod.
Right. He's not semi-god. He's 100% God. Matthew twenty eight, nineteen go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father? End of the Sun And of the Holy Spirit.
How much more Trinitarian, can you get? That's it, right there. The Great Commission gives us the Trinity: Father, Son. And the Holy Spirit. That's right.
So, if somebody has a problem with that, which I don't understand. How you can claim to be a Christian and have a problem with the Great Commission, then you have a problem with core biblical, historic. Christianity. That's right, because that's the model that Jesus laid out for us, to go and baptize the world in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And he puts them in that order for a reason, but he also puts them all together.
Yeah. Well, if we're going to be founded on the identity of who God is as believers, as a church, we've got to be founded on all that God is, and including the three persons within the Godhead, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. We can't neglect or minimize any of them. We have to hold them all as unity in the Trinity. That's right.
We talked about this a little bit, but this idea of subordination where Jesus is subordinate to the Father, the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Son. We've tried really hard. Yes, yes. We've tried really hard to make it to where there's not hierarchy of, to communicate that there's not hierarchy in value. There is different roles.
Yeah, that's right. And I think that's one of the reasons maybe the Holy Spirit does get neglected is because we think of him and Jesus as being subordinate to this Almighty Father who's unapproachable.
So we need these two. Yeah. characters, I guess you could say, and for lack of a better word, to get to him. Right. And there is some truth to that.
So there is that subordination between The Son and the Father, where the Son is subordinate to the Father, and the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, but it's not in any way indicative that. He is less. And that's what we're saying here. He's on the same level. And if I can, I'm going to give a couple more passages from the Bible.
in First Corinthians chapter twelve and verse four. There are diversities of gifts, but the same spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it's the same God who works all in all.
So Same spirit. No difference there. That's right. 2 Corinthians 13:14. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Amen. This is a benediction. And Again, just like the Great Commission, you see the three persons of the Trinity are laid out for us. Father? Sun?
And the Holy Spirit. Ephesians four four, There is one body and one spirit. Just as you were called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father of all.
So you see the Lord is Jesus. You see the Father, of course, is God the Father, but the Spirit. One Spirit. One Spirit. Again, Trinity is seen there.
First Peter 1, verse 1. Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ to the pilgrims of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father. In sanctification of the spirit? For obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.
So, right then and there again, he's put alongside the other. Yeah, you see it right there together, the three listed in the same passage. I don't understand when people have a problem with the Trinity, I'm like, what do you do with all this? Yeah. Here's another one, June twenty.
I said twenty because there is no Chapters is only a chapter.
So we could say Jude chapter 1 verse 20. But you, beloved, building yourself on your most holy faith. Praying in the Holy Spirit. Keeping yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
So there you have. Holy Spirit, love of God, we're talking about God the Father, and the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the The Son.
So it isn't just how they function. You're going to do this in the Holy Spirit and this in the Father and this in the Son. It's also the case that they are always seen together. That they're seen together for a reason because this is a picture of this complete Trinity. That's right.
Do the people who neglect or minimize one of the persons in the Trinity, do you think they have an answer for? like based on these passages, we said that a second ago, how do you handle these passages? Do they have a response to that? Or is it just they're gonna do the same heretical business, which is oh, th those are just different modes. Oh, those are just different You know, manifestations and not different persons.
I got you. Yeah, I think it's one of those things that. For those people, they're never going to not be right because it's such a core doctrine, right? How are you gonna, how are you going to, especially if you're older in years, how are you gonna turn around and be like, oh, you know what? These 50 years, I think I was wrong about the Trinity.
I'm gonna start believing correctly. I think it's unfortunately one of those things you just. You don't change your mind about it. Yeah, the longer it changes. The longer you believe wrong, the more likely you are to continue believing wrong.
That's right. And you grow up in a situation, and I didn't mean to cut you off, but it was like: you grow up in something like this where it's like, I've just always assumed that this is what Christians believe: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. No problem there. Is it a widespread problem that Christians don't believe correctly about the Trinity? Or is it like fringe groups that are really loud?
Fringe groups who are just crazy. But then also there are Christians who have never been taught biblical doctrine correctly. And so they just. See the Holy Spirit like a force. I don't think they're not saved.
They haven't been taught. And so, our job as pastors and teachers and Sunday school leaders and small group leaders is not just to powwow and come together. And just give you some practical tips on how to live a better life, it is to also teach you who God is. He is a triune God, Father, Son, Spirit, three, and yet one. We need to teach people that.
Would you say that is it fair to say that the Holy Spirit is the is the presence of God that we can most immediately interact with. Yeah. Yeah. I would say so. I mean, we can pray to God and we can pray to the Son.
But the Holy Spirit who lives in us and guides us and helps us with our thoughts, our conscience, stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. He's like the most readily available. The nearest to us.
I agree. Yeah. Because he's always there. Yeah. He has been there since the beginning.
I mean, he was there. When The earth was nothing but a big ball of water, right? There was a crust underneath, but then there's a big ball, you know, body of water just. just the Holy Spirit was just hovering over the face of the deep. And that's when God said, Let there be light.
Yeah. Isn't there a passage in Acts where someone like lies to the Holy Spirit's face or something like that?
So, like, one of the questions I always had about that was, like, what does he mean? That he's lying to the Holy Spirit. Because he's lying. I can't remember the story. It was Ananias and Sapphira, right?
Where he's lying to the church, but also lying to the Holy Spirit, therefore lying to God. Yeah, is there a distinction from just telling a lie? Is that what makes it lying to the Holy Spirit? Right. Yeah.
I mean,. It it's Big. Yeah. It's a big no-no. You're not just lying to a person, to me, to your parents, to your teacher, to your employer, to your church family, your church pastor.
No, you're lying to God. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And we find that illustration in Acts chapter 5, verse 3, when Peter said. Ananias.
Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price for yourself? While it remained? Was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart?
You have not lied to men but to God.
So previously Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and later? You have not lied to men but to God.
It means it's one and the same. One and the same. You know, a lot of times I think we. Consider ourselves more shrewd, more cunning than we ought to. And a lot of times, when we do that, we don't consider the fact that the Holy Spirit is living in me.
He's having to share room with these evil thoughts, these wicked thoughts. Yeah. You know, I'm having to make him scoot over so I can play with all these wicked thoughts that I have. Yeah. Imagine if you treated a house guest that way.
Yeah, I know. Hey, I've got to engage in this illegal activity. Would you mind just hopping over to the other couch real quick? Because I've got to do something that's unsavory right over here. Godly.
But that's what we do. That's what we do with the Holy Spirit within us. And Psalm 139, verse 7 says, Where can I go from your spirit? Talking about the Holy Spirit and where can I flee from your presence? If I ascend into heaven, you are there.
If I make my bed in hell, you are there.
So the Holy Spirit is omnipresent as God is omnipresent. I also like that this is a specific example of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament. I feel like we don't really see that. We don't talk about that a whole lot. Right.
He said the Holy Spirit is: all right, Pentecost happens, Holy Spirit's new challenger approaching. It's like they show up in different chapters. The Old Testament is God the Father, and then you get the beginning of the Gospels, which is Jesus, and then after Jesus, then the Holy Spirit enters, and this is his chapter. That's right. But that's not the way that it works.
It's the Trinity. That's right. So the Holy Spirit is also omniscient. He's not just omnipresent, he's also omniscient, just like God is omniscient. 1 Corinthians chapter 2, verse 10, but God has revealed them to us through His Spirit.
For the spirit Talking about the Holy Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him, even so no one knows the things of God except The spirit of God. The spirit of God. Wow.
So. The Holy Spirit is all-knowing. That's right. You know, I think about how. He lives and he works in our lives, right?
We consider him a lot of times. We consider him our conscience. He's just the one that tells us what to do good and tells us what not to do bad. But we also don't think about the way that he guides us, the way that he grows us. The way that he, you know what I'm saying?
Like, he kind of becomes our lifeline to God, especially in ways that. We don't even consider day-to-day life. Yeah. The Holy Spirit is, I mean, for us as believers now, the Holy Spirit is the touch point, is the connection that we have. You know, we talked about being connected to God through the humanity of Jesus.
But when we ask, like, when we functionally talk about being saved, when we talk about being a Christian, the presence of God within us is the Holy Spirit. I know a lot of times online you see videos of churches that are. In the middle of a worship set, and I think you know exactly where I'm going with this. Like, there's just energy, there's life, there's tears, there's dancing, there's music, there's lasers, there's smoke, there's just all sorts of energy. And we say, man, that's what the Holy Spirit looks like.
Or people are running up and down the aisles and they're jumping on the stage. And we're like, that's it. That's what it looks like when you have the Spirit. And we don't think about this wise old man. Who's reached the end of his life and he's sitting alone reading his Bible, just contemplating on wisdom?
We never look at that and say, That's the Holy Spirit. Yeah, yeah. And yet, that's where often we see it show up the most. Yeah, something else here: being born again is the work of the Holy Spirit. Our salvation is the work of the Holy Spirit.
In John chapter 3, verse 5, Jesus answered. Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the spirit. He cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
So, talk about that a little bit, because I think a lot of times we equate salvation just with the cross. Yeah. Because Jesus did it. Yeah, Jesus did that, which He did, and now I'm saved. But then we don't think about how the Holy Spirit works in our salvation.
Yeah, I mean, this is. Where he begins to come into our life when we receive Jesus as our Savior. He's the one who also draws us to Christ. Then comes the big debate. Does he draw everyone to Christ or does he pick and choose?
No, he draws everyone, but doesn't. Doesn't mean that everyone responds equally. There will be some who will respond positively and some will reject him.
So the Holy Spirit does the drawing. And uh people come. And They give their life to Christ. Amen. And then He.
begins to work. And make the life of Jesus real in us. That's right. That's the work of the Holy Spirit. I think some of that misunderstanding even comes in when we use language like, ask Jesus into your heart.
Like that language has kind of seeped in. And, you know, you are asking Jesus to be your Savior, you are asking him to save you. But the come into my heart, Jesus, and live within me. Functionally, is that happening? It's really the Holy Spirit who is indwelling us as believers and drawing us to who God is.
He is, but then what does he do? He makes the life of Jesus real in us. That's his work.
So you may say, well, are we not saying the same thing since they are all three parts of the Godhead? three persons, but they are gotten yes. But their roles are distinct.
So, yes, it is God working in you. But it is more specifically God, the Holy Spirit, who's working in you. That's right. And more specifically, He's not just working the life of God in you. No, He's working the life of Jesus in you because that is the life that.
connects with you. That's the life that can relate with you. That's the life that gave his life for you. I think that's important for us to parse out because it's conversations like this that aren't happening that are leading to misunderstandings and misapplications of the different persons of the Godhead and the lack of understanding, especially how these persons within God work together. Yeah, and it's, I think it's also, I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily, but you hear little kids say that all the time: I asked Jesus into my heart.
Jesus lives in my heart. And I'm not saying like that's a bad thing or that it's like heretical or anything. But it does lead to unlearning as you grow up and you become a Christian. You hear conversations like this. You're like, okay, so it is really the Holy Spirit manifesting the life of Jesus in me.
And I just wonder. Even though I know that's a that's a very theologically deep sentence, if we could teach little kids that. You know, if we could teach little kids that it's really the Holy Spirit who works in you, you teach them the Godhead, rather than this kind of, like you said, this. Nomenclature that we have to then unlearn later in our Christian life. Yeah, you've got to work to kind of unlearn is the best term to kind of sort back through what we truly mean when we say come into my heart.
Even how we started this whole episode where people think that the Holy Spirit is some mist, he's some cosmic force out there that just sort of works in our lives and. And it's like, well, yeah, no, I guess he would be a person. I've just never thought about it. You know, I wasn't taught that he was a nist or a force. I just haven't had anybody talk to me about this.
Right. His work is to manifest. The active presence of God in this world, especially in the church, and the believer. And that's what he's doing. Yeah.
Manifest presence of God. Yeah. You know, I think about that. What does that look like in our life, Dr. Shaw, when we've got the Holy Spirit?
Because a lot of people claim to have the Holy Spirit. Like you said, if I. Shout high enough and my music is good enough, then we cry and worship. If I cry, if I hold each other, and all this weird stuff that Christians do, we can just say the Holy Spirit was here today. But how do we really know He's here in my life?
Yeah, how do we really know that if He's here? Or if I'm looking at these physical markers in someone, that that person is a man or is a woman of the Holy Spirit. Right. Yeah. What are those signs?
What is that outward working that we could say evidence of the fruit of the Holy Spirit in that person's life? We use that term too. I mean, what is the fruit of the Holy Spirit? It's not behaviors, is it? Oh, I thought for sure you were going to say it's not a banana.
It's not a turbo banana. It's not a coconut. It's not a watermelon. It's not. There are three people watching who got that reference.
Everyone else is like, what is happening? Yeah, the first time I ever heard that. It's funny when you didn't grow up as a Christian, you did not grow up with veggie tales at all or any of these Christian songs. They are weird. They're like, what is this guy talking about?
They are a little unusual.
Well, when we're talking about the work of the Holy Spirit. There's several things he does. One he of course gives us life. Right? And uh Psalm one hundred four, verse thirty says, You send forth your spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the earth.
So in the world, he is the life-giving spirit. John 6:33 or 63, it is the Spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. Wow.
Romans 8:11. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies, life to your mortal bodies, Through his spirit who dwells in you. The Holy Spirit is a life-giving spirit. Wow.
What an encouragement. I think as we're going through our day-to-day Or day-to-day procedures in life. We're missing that. I think we're missing this source of life. I think we're going to get it from.
The world around us. We think we're going to get it from our hobbies, our spouse, our relationships, but really, it's always coming from the Holy Spirit. And he goes unthanked. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, and you know, you would then say people who don't have the Holy Spirit, people who aren't believers, do what do they just drop dead? Do they just like cease to exist? No, I mean, physically, of course, their heart is still beating, their brain is still functioning, they're still breathing by the grace of God. They're still doing those things, but they're walking around in a death-like existence. That's right.
That's right. They still love, they still give, they still do nice things, but life is not them. It's not in them. And this life we're referring to is not just the physical life, we're referring to the spiritual life, the life that is eternal and that can only come to us through God. But he also, the Holy Spirit, gives us power for service.
Uh numbers 27-18. And the LORD said to Moses, Take Joshua the son of Noon with you, a man in whom is the Spirit. And lay your hand on him. Judges 3:10, the Spirit of the Lord came upon him. Talking about Othniel.
And he judged Israel. Judges six thirty four. But the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon. Judges fifteen, fourteen. When he came to Lahi, the Philistines came shouting against him.
Then the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and the ropes that were on his arms became like flax. that is burned with fire, and his bonds broke loose from his hand.
Okay, talking about Samson. Isaiah 11:2, the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him. the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord. Luke four fourteen. Then Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and news of Him went out throughout all throughout all the surrounding region.
Matthew 12, 28, I can go on and on, but all of these passages are teaching us. That the Holy Spirit not only gives us life, but he gives us power for service. I think that's a great point. Because a lot of times we think of that, and we say that there's lots of worship songs talking about the whole the Holy Spirit gives you power. And we take that, we interpret that to mean like I am strong, I can conquer life, I can do this, I can be rich, I can be the man I always wanted to be.
But all of these examples are showing how he gives you the power to serve. Yeah. Well, I think even there are some people who would interpret that I have supernatural power. The Holy Spirit empowers me to do things that are beyond a normal human, that are beyond an average unbeliever, what I can accomplish in the spiritual realm. I have that power.
Dr. Xiao, what power does the Holy Spirit have for us today? I mean the the main reason for that power other than like giving us life. The life of Jesus is to empower us to share the gospel. On the day of Pentecost in Acts chapter 1, verse 8, They were told, But you shall receive power When the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you shall be witnesses to me in Jerusalem.
And in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth.
So the power was not just so you can go around. you know, doing amazing things and and performing Mm-hmm. Axe. of amazements And just these feats of of you know, craziness. But this these powerful things were changed lives.
To the gospel. That's right. That's right. I think the importance there is on sharing the gospel. And once again, I mean, this goes back to the relationship the Trinity has within itself.
That the spirit exists to point people toward Jesus. That's right. It's all about, it's all about the gospel. It's all about what Christ has done for us. That's right.
And we're hoping that as you're listening to this, that's your heart as well. You know, the gospel of John says that over and over and over. I'm writing these things that you may believe. Yeah. You know, the Holy Spirit is going to help you do great things in your life, but it's for a goal.
It's not just to make you successful, make you a lot of money, make you a wise person unto its own end. It's to make sure that you are equipped to share the gospel of Jesus Christ because ultimately, that's where the Holy Spirit wants your attention to be. And maybe we're going to talk about that in an upcoming episode. That's right. And that's our goal here on the Clear Read Today Show is engaging hearts and minds for the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I mean, that's the Holy Spirit's directive to us. And that's what our goal is here on the Clear Read Today Show. Here's how you can help us do that. You can subscribe to the show on any social media platform. You can follow along with the show.
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