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Now let's jump in. Over the course of your life, you're going to change dramatically. You are not the same person you were 10 years ago, 20 years ago. But aren't you glad that's not true of God? And that's today's conversation on the Theory Today Show.
You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Studio.
We're so glad you're joining us for today's conversation. If today's your first time ever listening to the show, we want to hear from you. Text today, T-O-D-A-Y-252-429-6069. That number is always open. And anytime you join into that number, beyond that point, you can text us whatever you want.
You can text us conversations you'd like for us to cover on the show, questions you might have for Dr. Shah, or maybe just a testimony of how God is using this show to work in your life. That's right, Dr. Shah, welcome to the studio. Today it's going to be a great conversation.
Absolutely. I'm ready for it. That's right. As we continue exploring the attributes of God, getting to know who God is and what he's like, man, this conversation has been so eye-opening. It's been so insightful.
And it's helped us understand not only the Bible better, but our relationship with God better. There are plenty of people out there who just want to know more about God, right? I know I'm saved and I'm comfortable in my Christian walk. I think I can afford to just. Just learn some good, solid doctrine.
And that is what we're doing. But it's also a very personal matter to get to know God, you know, as He is a friend, as He is our Father, and we want to know more and more about Him. Absolutely. You know, God tells us that let not the rich man glory in His riches or the wise man glory in His wisdom, but let Him who glories glory in this that He knows me. And that's what we're doing here.
We want to have the right kind of glory, and the right kind of glory is the one where we say, I know God. I will never completely know him. But I know God. I know Him on a personal level. Of course, that's only.
through Jesus Christ, but I've also come to know him more of who he is. And how does he think? And what does he expect of me? All of that Is in this topic of getting to know God. That's right.
And we wanted to start with the things that are harder to get to know, right? Because anytime you do something like this, people are going to start with God as love and God is peace and He's joy and He's grace and He's all of these things, but we wanted to start with these things that God actually does not have in common with us, you know, these things that it's actually harder for him to understand. That's right. You know, in the past couple of episodes, we talked about the incommunicable and the communicable attributes. And some of our listeners and viewers wanted a little more understanding about these.
Incommunicable, communicable attributes. What are the differences? And how do they apply to us in our daily lives?
So, in this episode, if we can, for the first little bit, let's talk about the differences.
So when we say incommunicable, We're talking about attributes that are not to be communicated. Very simple. Incommunicable, not to be shared. They are non-transferables. There are certain things that are transferables to us, but then there are certain things that are nontransferable.
There are some aspects of our character that will not change. If you are a quiet person, then it does not mean that you will become the life of the party. But you will not be a scared or insecure person.
Okay, so there are some differences there.
So. Boom. You know, when we think about Incommunicable, we're talking about God is the one who is the anchor point. We are the one that is the free end. If you're looking at a compass, and God is the anchor point.
God does not change. God is self-sufficient, we are not.
So that attribute is not communicable. It is not transferable because God is self-sufficient, then I am self-sufficient. It doesn't work like that. Right. Right.
But then there are some attributes like God is loving.
So I am loving. Right. God is holy, so I am called to be holy, and I can be because of Christ. But then there are certain aspects that God is But that does not mean I am, right? We're created in the image of God, but we're not created as equivalent to God.
We don't have possess all of the same attributes. We just have sort of qualities that are derived from God, and we can map that onto our experience. But there are some things that are very, very different about God than there are about us. And if you're listening for the very first time today, you know, we've been talking about this for a couple of weeks now.
So we've talked about, you know, how God is invisible. You can't see Him.
Well, I'm visible. I'm tangible. You know, you can feel me. You can touch me. There are, what was the one that we did just yesterday?
He's self-sufficient, you know, so he doesn't need anything unlike me. And then today, talking about he's immutable, he can't change. That's right. And I think about like the way that we change over the course of our life, you know, and how that can never be said about God. And people will find beauty in that.
That, you know, well, I'm changing. I'm constantly growing. I'm a different person. And all that is wonderful. But how much more beautiful to be that anchor, like you said, Dr.
Shah, to be that entity that not only doesn't change, but can't change. Right. He is immutable. That is an attribute that is in. Incommunicable.
God never becomes. God is. John Blanchard said that.
So also I become, I'm becoming a better leader, hopefully. I'm becoming a better husband. I'm becoming a better pastor. I'm becoming a better. New Testament scholar.
I'm becoming a better citizen in this great country of the United States. God never becomes. God Incommunicable attributes. Why? Because I'm changing.
J.I. Packer said it this way: what God does in time. He planned from eternity. and all that he planned in eternity he carries out in Time makes me think about our discussion about Christ's time and how God, you know, he supersedes time, but he acts at various points in time. It also maps onto the conversation about, you know, did Jesus become human?
Did he take on humanity, or was it? Did he possess a human nature, albeit different from ours? Did he possess a human nature before the incarnation? Right, right. And he did.
And it took, it was activated in real time for us. 2,000 years ago, but it does not mean that there was. Ever a point that Jesus, the second person, didn't really understand humanity? I mean, of course, look at the Old Testament, how often he came as a pre-incarnate. Person, human.
Yeah, we use that nomenclature, like he took on flesh when we talk about the incarnation, but. Is it a misnomer, or is it just a way to say, you know, he that he walked among us? He did this because. I think about that where it's like he took on flesh, but he had flesh. Like he was still 100% man before the foundation of the world, right?
Right. I would say. Yes, but in a whole different sense. He was, but then I'd never want to minimize what took place 2,000 years ago when he was born. As a baby in a manger, I never want to say, like, well, that was really nothing.
No, no, no.
Something did enter into our realm. But in his realm, that that fully God, fully man aspect was always there. Always had been. But it was manifested. That's a good word.
It was manifested in our realm two thousand years ago. Gotcha. I mean, think about it. God made us in his image. Whose image?
If God is spirit.
Well the image of the second person of the Godhead. Who came to die on the cross for us? Who came to live a perfect life for those 33 some years? It was not God the Father, but It was not God the Holy Spirit. It was God the Son.
Why did He come to do that? Because he was setting a model for us. But even more than that, he was going to be our substitute. not the father, as sometimes Some some Some people say, some people pray. You know, I've made that mistake too.
Heavenly Father, thank you so much for dying on the cash. Dying on the cross for me. Wait, wait a minute. Patriarchationism. Oops.
Just take that out of the live stream. Let's just rewind. Everybody forget I said that. Fix that in post. Yeah.
I was a heretic. Please don't kill me. Please forgive my accidental heretics. Slip of the tongue. It happens.
Yeah. But yeah, Father did not die on the cross. That's right. The Holy Spirit did not die on the cross. The only the son died on the cross, who was already the slam The lamb slam slain.
The flood slain. The lamb slain from the foundation of the world. But if God doesn't change, then that human nature was there. That's right. It was just realized at that moment in time, manifested, like you said.
Absolutely for us. Yeah, the nature was there. Yeah. And I love how you said that Adam and Eve, you know, they had to get that template from somewhere. They were designed in the image of God, in whose image?
In the sun's image. I love that. And I think that's something that people don't really think about because they think of God being just one entity creating Adam and Eve.
So he must look like this big human guy in the sky. And that's where we get this weird picture. And it's not true. Here's something very important: God does not change in his essence. His nature and being are infinite.
There was never a time he was not there never will come a time when he shall cease to be. God has never evolved, grown, nor improved. God has never evolved, grown, nor improved. Folks, listen, what we just talked about. About Jesus in nature essence was always fully God, fully man.
And yet he was manifested in our realm. Taking on human flesh, that is not a contradiction. Right. Because in our realm he needed to. Mhm.
But he always was. He said, What was that fully man look like?
Well, Like we saw him. Take on Flesh that's what he looked like. but different. Different essence, you know, the godly essence. That godly essence took on.
the the human flesh that could hurt and bleed. Did God bleed in heaven? Probably not. I would say no. But yes, when he took on flesh, yes, he bled.
Right?
So. I know this is kinda deep, but I think it's great for us to To sort of approach this because these are some of the questions people have.
So all that he is to day. He has ever been And ever will be. That's really beautiful to think about. Yeah. That's powerful.
What do we do with that, Doctor Shaw? How does this go from being a fun fact about God that, okay, He never changes and I'm okay with that? How does that affect me, my life, my day-to-day existence? First and foremost, it puts us right in our place. All of us, including me, we need to be put back in our place because sometimes we have that God complex.
That I am so powerful or I am so you know, indestructible No, you're not. There's only one God. Yeah. The triune God, one God in three persons, Father, Son, Spirit. The sun, of course, is what we're discussing right now as being fully God, fully man, even before the foundation of the world.
But then He was manifested in our time. Oh, look, none of this is us. We were made in his image. And then we were saved by his substitutionary death. But we are not him.
You know, pe people talk about the doctrine of deification. And you know, and our Eastern Orthodox brothers will tell us, and some of our even people in the Western hemisphere of theology will say things like, Well, you know, deification does not mean you become God, but you are now connected to God. And I'm like, I hear you. I hear what you're saying. But I'm sorry.
You and I will never be deified. Yeah. You know, God did not become man so that man will become God.
Sorry, Ansel. That's not how it works. No, that was never the question. Yeah, yours was never the plan. Great church father.
Appreciate all you. Curtius Homo. But no. Di does it come from this idea that in heaven we'll have glorified bodies, but we'll still be men, we'll still be human beings, even not even angels. Whether here or there, we will never, ever, ever be God.
Yeah. Never, ever, ever be Self-sufficient. Never will we become like man. I am so one with the all my no. I am one with the humanity.
The second person of the Godhead. Yeah, I mean, even think about in heaven, if we're worshiping him, then that implies that we're not one with him. Yeah. Like, why would I worship something that I'm one with, myself? Yeah.
You know what I mean? There's still a clear distinction. When people say, man, because of Jesus, now I can touch God. No, let's back up a little bit. I can touch God through the humanity of Jesus.
That's as far as you and I can ever go. If you're thinking somehow you can sneak past that and touch the deity of Jesus and through the deity, begin to somehow stand inside the Trinity and stuff like that. Yeah. So that that's such a profound take that people often think, you know, it's because of Jesus that I can touch God, but it's through the humanity of Jesus that That we have that connection. That's only as far as we get to go because God is wholly other than we are.
So it's almost as if the humanity of Jesus is how God Reaches us. Exactly. It's how he reaches down and interacts with us. Bottom line, you and I deserve hell. I mean, that's all we deserve.
That's nothing good in us, nothing great in us. We deserve hell.
So for us to even be able to touch God, Is a privilege beyond our comprehension. Is this thought process fringe or is this more prevalent than we would think? It's hard to explain to people. I mean, look at how difficult it is for us to talk about it because I want to make sure the words are right. It took us a few seconds of kind of hovering over the over the.
Airport to land on the word manifest or manifestation because you want to make sure the words. The the verbiage is right.
So it it is hard to For an average person to explain or understand it. It takes understanding and study and and good vocabulary. That you can express exactly what's in your mind. And so I don't think this is fringe, but it's become fringe because it is a little difficult to explain. Is it seeing a recourse back to mainstream theology or is it still kind of on the outskirts?
I think it's still on the outskirts because people have a tough time understanding. What do you mean? What do you mean? He became man 2,000 years ago. Right, but if you understand that we are made in his image, what image are we talking about?
What is the reality? In the major God. I know how, which part. Right. I don't know.
What do you think?
Well, I believe it's in the second person. Why would you say that? Why I say that? Because The second person is the one who kept showing up in the Old Testament. Even before the virgin birth, he kept showing up.
And what did he look like? He looked like man. Huh.
Okay, what else? And there are so many other things that are said about him. like he was a lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Things like that. If if that those things are not just metaphorical language if there's something more to it.
Then We need to unpack that the best of our ability. with the best understanding that we can garner. And the studies that we can do, and with the aid of the Holy Spirit, we can sorta peek into what is being implied here So things like that are difficult for people. You know, one of the things we like to do at on the Clearview Today show is approach these things with humility, and through Scripture. And with the best of scholarship.
Trustworthy scholarship. Like some of these things, I didn't come up with this. I mean, I would love to take credit for it, but I didn't. I read a lot of writings of Karl Barth. And Bart, even though I may not agree with him in some of the other aspects of neo-orthodoxy and things like that.
In this area, he he's done a phenomenal work. And so reading his works I was able to go, Oh wow you're actually answering. what I've thought about for years. And you've done a beautiful job here. Wow.
Why why don't people know this? Because when you write the dogmatics, church dogmatics, which is like volumes and volumes and volumes. Most people quote it. They don't read it. You know, they call it a classical work.
You know, as someone said, classics are books that people talk about but haven't read. I believe that. That's a great point. I definitely believe that. I mean, how many classics are out there that people have I mean, how many of y'all have read the Odyssey and and Iliad and Odyssey?
I mean, I have. You you have somewhat I mean I have. And and that too was a combination reading and audible. Mm-hmm. Because It's it's long, it's long, yeah, yeah.
It's long and it's complicated. I never read The Odyssey. I read, I remember reading The Iliad in college, but I never read The Odyssey, but I would still talk. You're right, I'd still talk 100%. Yeah, I've only ever read The Odyssey, it impacted so much of Western culture.
Glory, wow, the Cyclops, the Argonauts. Did you read it? What's up? Did you? I've read the cover.
I'd read the cover several times, but you told a copy of it. Oh, I've got it on my bookshelf right now. I can show it to you. Look, here it is. I ain't not got the collector's edition.
So, you read it? No, huh? What's up? How's that? Hang on one second.
Hello? You know, I mean, and that's the thing with Karl Bart. Because of two things. One is so much he has written. Secondly, in places.
what he has written is questionable and I don't agree with it.
So, some of the gems that are buried in his writings get lost. Wow. Other than those who are systematic theology. students or Or theologians, they know. Do you think you think one of those hidden gems is the immutability of God, or this like the personhood of Christ, or both?
I would say the personhood of Christ. I got you, gotcha. Yeah, it's really awesome. Yeah, and there's some other things as well that are phenomenal when it comes to Karl Bart, but the personhood of Christ, I learned from reading Bart. I like a lot what you said, too, where you know, it would have been very easy and I don't want to say top out, but it just would have been a very low-hanging fruit to say, you know, how does this help us in our day-to-day life that God doesn't change?
Oh, we can trust him. And I think that's the way that most people would go. But I like the direction that you took, which is like this puts us back where we belong. This makes our worship real again. You know what I mean?
It has some gravity behind this relationship with God. Absolutely. You know, this relationship that we have with God. It's easy to make this like a romantic little flowery thing where I talk to my buddy every day, but this is the king of the entire universe who somehow cares for me. Yeah, our relationship must be different.
Yeah. And it also reminds us that he is God who does not change. In other words, in Malachi, it talks about that I'm the Lord, I cannot change, is his own unqualified affirmation. He cannot change for the better. where he's already perfect and being perfect he cannot change for the worse.
That's amazing.
So, that's all there is to it. Yeah, God is, God is who He is. I love the way that you said it earlier. He is now what He always has been and what He always will ever be. God is God, and that's the end of it.
And I think it's encouraging too that not only does He not change, but nothing can change Him. Yeah, He's unchangeable. Yeah, nothing can come against Him. There's no circumstance that could ever happen in this world or any world.
So, then that leads down to another, and this may be a rabbit trail that we can't explore today. If God does not change, and God has a sovereign plan for the world. How then does God respond to the prayers of his people? Does he do prayers change his mind? Can his mind change?
How does that work? Yeah, that's a great, great question. And maybe we can go ahead and address that here and then sort of go further.
So Yes, there are certain things that are God's will that will not change. It's sovere God's sovereign will. Its primary will. There are other names for the other designations for it. But this is going to be God's.
Sovereign will. It's said. It'll be done. Jesus is coming. He came the first time, he's coming back again.
There will be new heavens and new earths. is going to happen. There are many other things I can talk about. The gates of hell will not prevail against the church. God's will, you cannot change it.
All right. On and on it goes. God has a plan for uh His people, the Jewish people, who were the people of Israel, who were the Hebrews, God made a covenant with Abraham, which will not be broken. Read the book of Isaiah. It will tell you that God's covenant is is unchanging.
I was reading that in my Devotional time this morning. And when I hear people say things about Zionism and Christian Zionism and blah, blah, blah, I'm like. Uh Have you read the book of Isaiah? Oh, no, no, 100%. They haven't.
I mean, I've got it on my shelf. Just that one book? Yeah, exactly. Just that one book. Just that one.
Simple statement: Well, they rejected God, so God has rejected them. Have you read the book of Isaiah and see what God said to them? He said I will not break my covenant with you, come what may.
So this is God's Will that will be done. But then there are other areas that God has invited us to cooperate with Him. in doing his will in this world. And that's where Prayers for healing come in come in. You know, James talks about The prayer of healing.
Now, if we're going to say that, well, it doesn't really matter what you say, what you pray, because God has already determined what's going to happen. You know, God does what He wants to, and your prayer may change you. But it doesn't change God. God's mind is made up. Do you really think you can?
Change the mind of God? Listen to what it says here. This is James chapter 5. And verse fourteen. Is anyone among you sick?
Let him call for the elders of the church. And let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick. I mean, that's hard to argue with. It's pretty cut and dry. I mean, that's pretty plain.
But I mean, what that really means is the prayer of faith will change the people who are praying. The fella's still gonna go. Mm. Yeah, it says it's going to save the sick. It says save.
Is that what it says? Hang on, let me see. And the Lord will raise him up. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Not the ones that are praying. The ones that just means the boy that's laying there sick.
Well, that just means that God was always planning to do that.
Well, what about the many, many times that you pray and nothing happens, and the person still gets sick or they die, and blah, blah, blah.
Okay. I mean, we can talk about it. It doesn't change the truth in that verse. Yeah, we can talk about the success all we want, but there's been like hundreds of times where it didn't. It just didn't work.
It don't work. Sure. Yeah. I hear you. That's why you need to listen to this weekend's message.
That's right. That's right. I will be covering that. All that to say is: yes, there are times. God's will is Is unchangeable.
This is what he has decreed, whether big things or even in our personal lives, because he sees. The whole picture. He sees the future. He sees how everything is going to work together in this wonderful tapestry that he is weaving. And then there are things God says.
Mm. You you wanna build a y you wanna make a flower there?
Okay? All right, I'll cooperate with you. Let's let's make a flower together. You know, and that's what God does. Yeah.
And that's just who God is. That's right. So. To answer your prayer, Raf faith or or about about uh healing Yes, there are times God may not heal. But then there are times God heals because we're praying.
That's right. So, Dr. Shamin, this kind of leads into our wrap-up here. If someone's listening to all this, and I feel like we just kind of answered it, but if you want to just even speak directly to the listener, if someone's listening to this and say, I hear you, God doesn't change, I change. And maybe that helps me trust him.
But right now, I'm going through something really, really terrible. What can I do? How does this knowledge that God never changes help me right now in the next 24 hours? What's something I can do? Yeah.
You can trust him. You can trust him. You may not be able to trust even your own flesh and blood. You may have been betrayed by your own spouse? or even your church family or somebody you trusted in.
As your spiritual mentor, they disappointed you, they broke your heart, they broke your trust, but you can trust God. Here's something even crazier. There may be times you cannot even trust your own self. Your own thoughts, your own Emotions. And I would wholeheartedly encourage you not to trust yourself.
But you can trust God. That's right. And in those moments when Thoughts begin to just cram in and they begin to struggle in your head and you're you're you're staying up late and you're questioning and you're doubting and you're wondering if all this even is is real or if it's worth it. And all these things are Just trust. God's Word.
When I say trust God, I'm talking about trusting his word. What does his word tell us? But what did it tell God's people? When Joshua was about to Go across the Jordan River ready to take the promised land that Moses brought them to 40 years earlier, but because of disobedience, they wandered around. But now it was time.
What did God say? He came to Joshua and said, Joshua, Be strong and of good courage. means don't be afraid, be strong and of good courage, go forward. Just make sure that my word is with you. You move forward.
But if Joshua were like, I don't know, I mean, are you with us? Are you against us? What do we, you know, what do I need to do?
Well, the word came back again. It's like Wahelm. As the commander of the army of the Lord, I have come to take over.
So Are you with us for no. You get up? Get behind the lord. And start moving. Get behind.
I love that. Get behind the armies of the Lord and move forward. That's right. If I make you a promise right now and I don't fulfill it for five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, twenty years, you know, if I go, if you go to cash in that promise, that's the first thing I'll say is: hey, I was a different person back then. God has never been a different person.
And His promises to Abraham and to Isaac and to Jacob and all those people thousands of years ago still hold true today. That's the reason you can trust Him. And then if today's episode was a blessing for you, make sure you share this episode with a loved one or a family member who would benefit from it. You can do so by following along on any one of our podcasting platforms. And if it was a blessing to you, make sure it's a blessing to other people by heading over to Abadanshah.com forward slash give and becoming a supporter of the Theory Today Show.
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