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Now let's get into the show. There are times in our lives where we have to pray for healing. But what happens when things get so bad that we actually lose the ability to pray for ourselves? I'm covering the importance of prayer and praying for others coming up right now on the Clear Vee Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr.
Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Show with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah.
We're so glad you're joining us for today's conversation. And if you're joining us for the first time, we want to say welcome. We're glad you're tuning in and we're going to let you know exactly who's talking to you today. Dr. Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show, Dr.
Shah. We're talking about prayer. I'm ready to pray. Amen. Amen.
Time to pray. But you know what? We've, a lot of us have grown up praying. You know, if you grew up in the church, you grew up praying. I myself didn't grow up in the church.
I had to kind of be taught how to pray. And I think it's one of those things where the more you pray, the more you get into this rhythm, it's almost like the less you ask others to pray for you. It's almost like the better I get at this, the less I feel the need to involve other people to pray for me. Does that make sense? I disagree with that.
Yeah, yeah. Let me tell you why. It may seem like it, but it's not. There's another adage that goes with it. Maybe it's not an adage, maybe this is the first time some people may hear this, which is.
The more you pray, The more you feel like you don't pray enough. Hmm. The less you pray, the more you feel like you prayed plenty.
So, also, with the more you pray, I mean, I'm not talking about just praying, but the more you really pray. And you really get into prayer. And I know I have had ebbs and flows in my life when it comes to prayer. But the more I have prayed, the more I realize the importance of prayer, and more I realize the importance of getting other people to pray with me. That's right.
Yeah, maybe the way to frame that is the people who think they pray a lot. That's better. That's better. Because in reality, the more you pray, the more you realize you don't pray enough. And more you realize, man, I can't do this alone.
I need other people to go. To the throne of God with me. And it's not like we're pleading and begging and growling at the feet of God and saying, please. No, prayer is not that. Prayer is not us begging God, please.
No, prayer is that relationship with God. Prayer is that intimacy with God that may not make sense to us. I don't think there's anything this side of heaven that truly compares with prayer. Yeah. I know we often say it's like prayer is coming like a child coming to the Father, or prayer is like you knock on the door for bread.
Those are great parables given by Jesus. But prayer exists in a in in in a class by itself. It's something very different. I I wish I had a better analogy for that. I just I just don't.
I think you hit it on the head. Have you heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect? It's basically exactly what you described, which is, and you can probably attest to this because you're a scholar, you're an academic. It's this effect that when people first start researching or first start an activity, they get this spike of confidence where, like, I'm an expert in this. And then the longer you spend in that field, the more you realize I really don't know what there's so much.
The more you do it, the more you do it. The more you realize you have a lot to learn. Yeah. By the way, that's a great point. And I didn't know about what's called the Dunning-Kruger effect.
I don't know. It's like a psychology thing.
Okay, great. My wife told me about it. Yeah, I may have heard of it at some point in time, but I don't know it right now. That's very true. And it's a great indicator when somebody talks about everything.
They know everything about everything. And when you come across a person like that who knows everything about everything, they're definitely not an academic. Yeah. And when I say academic, I'm not trying to insult you folks who are listening to us, who are so grateful that you are. Where every day we thank our listeners, our viewers.
A good academic Nose What he knows, but also knows what he doesn't know. Yes, right.
Okay, knows what he doesn't know. How does that apply to prayer? The more you pray, the more you realize I don't pray enough. That's right. The more you pray, the more you realize I cannot do this alone.
You start to develop something of a hunger for it, something like a desiring. The more time you spend with God, the more time you want to spend with God. And oftentimes, when we think about prayer, we think about it in an individual sense, like my time with God. This is my conversation with my Heavenly Father, and it's very individualistic. Maybe because we, you know, have grown up in a Western mindset where it's very individual focused.
Where does the involving others come in, the collective nature of prayer?
Well, James tells us that.
Okay.
So in James five thirteen, he says, Is anyone among you suffering, let him pray or let her pray.
So there is that place for coming to God by yourself and pleading for something or someone in your life who needs God's intervention. Is anyone suffering? Let him, let her pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him Or let her sing psalms.
Great. Those are wonderful things. But then it says in verse fourteen. Is anyone among you sick? Let him you can say let her call for the elders of the church and let them pray over him or over her, anointing him, anointing her with oil in the name of the Lord.
When you and I are sick. And this is not just physically sick. Of course, maybe in the context is physical sickness. But I think you can apply that in other areas of weakness because sickness One of the characteristic features of sickness is Is weakness. You just don't have the same energy, you don't have the same drive, you just have the same cheerfulness and excitement and and and.
Energy or whatever.
So You need help. Yeah. Yeah. So, also, when it comes to prayer, there are certain things that you and I will struggle with where we don't have the energy. We don't have the excitement.
We don't have the wherewithal. We don't have our minds and our hearts together. We're not at. operating on on all cylinders And we need somebody else or others to come alongside. And strengthen us.
and help us j k kinda like Moses and Aaron and Hur, when they were battling, I believe the Amalekites, they were fighting against them. Joshua was down there, and Caleb was down there, and others were fighting. Moses was up on the mountain praying. And then it came a point where he had his hand raised, but his hands were getting tired. And every time his hands weakened, Aaron and Hur, they got on either side and they held up his hands.
I think that's a perfect example of what's going on here. Is anyone among you sick? Means you're not operating. At your highest capacity, great time to enlist some helpers. I think that's a great point, especially for people who are listening and who maybe identify with that.
You know, I think personally, coming back from NRB, I always, this was our third year going to NRB, and it's always like clockwork. I leave, and it feels like I've got a jetpack strapped to my back. I have every great idea in the world, and I want to pursue all of them right now. And then come like March, April, we do our spring play. We do a lot of the other productions that we do with the Greek New Testament that you guys are doing.
Like things just start to get in this. It's like, oh my goodness. It's like I'm waking up at like 10, 11 in the morning. Or kids are busy, your kids are sick, or kids are playing ball. I mean, it's a lot of things.
Yeah. And you do feel that sluggishness, that lack of energy, that lack of cheer. And I think what I know where I mess up is like the mindset instead of I need to get my team to pray for me. I need to tell my team what I'm feeling and what's going on. It's like, let's just get through this.
Let's get through this. And the energy will come back. Yeah, I can't. It's such a misstep. I can't remember the last time I looked at someone and said, Hey, I need you to pray for me.
Would you pray for me, please? I'm dealing with this. I'm struggling with this. Can you pray? That's not true.
I do remember, but I had to think about it. It didn't immediately come off the top of my head. Can you pray for me? And chances are, there's a lot of Christians who, like, If you're honest, it's just you, you're driving in the car, you're cooking, you're whatever. If you're looking, you don't remember the last time that you asked someone to pray for you specifically.
Why do you think that is, Dr. Shaw? Why are we so averse to that?
Well, I mean, again, number one, just what I just said: the less you pray, the less you think you can handle it. The more you pray, the more you feel like I need help. This is a mountain that cannot be climbed alone. I mean, think about it. If you were to be going mountain climbing, yeah, if you were just gonna run around in a decent-sized hill, no problem.
I can do it on my own. It's a little bit of struggle in places, but I can climb up there. Let's take a quick break. It's John here from Clearview Today. Before we jump in, quick shout out to today's sponsor, Mighty Muscadine.
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Now, let's say you're you're gonna climb the Rockies. Let's go even higher. Let's say you're going to climb somewhere in the Swiss Alps. Let's go even harder climbing Mount Everest. I mean, Mount Everest has a limit.
You know, they put a limit there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they put a limit. They realize that. Yeah.
Now it's not like, hey, I want to climb.
Okay, come on in.
Now, you have to make process. And even if you have. All these accomplishments that you've climbed here, there, everywhere, great. But there's now a limit of how many people can get up. Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, it's you can't just roll up and start climbing. It's a whole process. And one of the things they look for is how well do you work with other people? Because climbing that summit is not an individual act, it's a team effort. You have to watch out for your neighbor.
You have to keep an eye on others around you. Those in front of you, those behind you, those right next to you, you're watching out for each other. If you're not that kind of person, if you're like a renegade, you're like, I'm here, I'm going to do my own thing and climb the top and man, take my selfie, you're not. You're not cut out to be. There's bodies littered up there.
That's true. Can you imagine that up on Mount Everest? No, like that. That they use of as the mile markers. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's probably going to be you.
If you're that type of person, you probably wouldn't even, you're right, you probably wouldn't even make it to the approval.
So, also, you know, when it comes to the prayer summit, if I may say that, that height of prayer, when you are saying, God, there is this thing right here, there's this family, there's this person, there's this relationship. It feels like it is dead. It means there is no hope here. But, God.
Something needs to happen. They say, Well, come on, your heavenly Father is ready to give it to you, just like this. Yes, most things are just right there. Take it, ask, and you shall receive, seek, and you shall find. Knock and the door shall be opened.
But then there are things. God says, now I want you to wrestle. Not wrestle with me per se. It's not like I'm going to be like that dad who, all right, go ahead, open my fist. Try.
And the kids are like all up and down, and they climb on top of your arm. You gotta pry your fingers up. Yeah, again, there's nothing on this side of heaven that truly helps us understand what prayer is. Yeah. Yeah, it's in a class by itself.
that wrestling For something where you say, hey, look, this is not going to be a one-on-one wrestling. I need backup. Yeah. Can you speak to the Christians who might hear that and might even feel discouraged? Because I think we have this fairy tale idea of prayer where it's like, I'm going to pray, and the harder I pray, the harder I forge this relationship with me and God, my problem's going to grow clearer and easier.
But really, it's just the opposite. The more you pray, the more you realize this is insurmountable about me. Because some of the things that you're praying for, God is not answering, not because He doesn't wanna answer and just relieve your problem. But he is teaching you something in the process.
Sometimes what's happening to you is not for you. It is with somebody around you. Who is watching you?
So, when you're facing that situation, you say, God, just get this off of me. God's like, yes, but don't you want to grow? Yes, I do, but not this way. Every day we figure way I can grow. I'd like to grow, but if it's more comfortable, that would be great.
How about that little hill behind the house? I mean, you know, when snow comes, man, I love sliding down that hill. How about we go there? How about you train me there and I can climb Mount Everest? Yeah.
God's like, no, not that one. We have to go. Let's go in the Appalachian Mountains. Let's go. We're going to have to try out the Rockies.
Let's try some hardcore stuff. No, no, no. That hill, I tell you, that hill. It's a little cookie club hill that we slide down. Yes, it's like so much fun.
Get on my toboggan. And even then, like I don't know my legs hurt when I get to the top.
So I guess we hurt. I mean, I honestly, I feel like I'll be ready. Yeah. Glad to Mount Everest. Yeah.
Yeah. Then when I'm done, I can pack the kids in the car, they cry, we go on home. Yeah, it's a good day. And that's what you're going to practice on to go to Mount Everest. No, no, that's not going to work.
Yeah. God leads us to and through exactly what we need to shape us into the people He would have us to be. Yeah, and also, as I mentioned a few moments ago, many of our problems are not for us. Yeah. And the sooner we understand that, The better we are able to handle it, and I know we may have to be reminded of that 32,000 times in the day, like that.
struggle is not because you sinned. Like Job. Yeah. Or you messed up here. Or Satan just after you.
No, maybe it is God teaching you how to live by grace. Maybe God is using you. To bring grace in the life of people around you, you say, I don't like it, I don't like one bit. No, okay, yeah. That's what God has called you to do.
Yeah. Job has been heavy on our minds because we are headed at the time you're listening to this, we are headed toward our spring play, an original production right here at Clearview Church, if you're local in the area, of Job Director's Cut. And this is much more than just a modern retelling of the story of Job. Yeah, it's just to read a little scripture. No, no, no, no, no.
It's much deeper than that. It's the story of a man who is disillusioned with life, disillusioned with faith, has fallen on hard times, and he is impacted and transformed by the story of Job. Yeah. And Dr. Shaw, you wrote this play.
This is an incredible story. And I think in the story, and both in the story and in your sermon series on Job, the thing that impacted me the most, if I had to pick one thing, because there was a lot, if I had to pick one thing, it was that the suffering that you go through sometimes is not for you, it's for other people. And that really wrecked, in a good way, my view of. The difficulties of life. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, some of the things that I've gone through in my personal life, family life, and no need to talk about it here. What has given me comfort, although it has been very, very, very difficult, it's not easy. Just because you know that truth does not mean it becomes easy.
Right. It just becomes understandable. Does not mean that you carry it any less. That would be no different than saying, Oh, once Jesus knew that he was not dying for his own sins, oh, it was just a piece of cake. No problem.
Like hi-fying people. They're like, Yeah, dying for you today. Autographed his baby. Blowing the whistle, like the music's rising as they lift. You get salvation and you get salvation.
Everybody gets salvation. As long as everybody knows it ain't my fault. I mean, shoot, y'all come on. I mean, it was not like another nail. No, yeah.
It wasn't like that. He knew. But it did not make the journey easy. That's right. So, also with us, just because you know this truth that much of our suffering is not for ourselves, it's for someone else, does not make it easy.
But it does make it easier in the sense of you at least understand that you're not guilty for what's happening. You're not causing this. Nobody caused this. It's not just that Satan is just running rough shot over your life and he is in control and he is going to destroy everything and there'll be nothing left. No, at least you know, okay, God.
Yes, he may be like a bull in a china shop. But ultimately, you got your hand on that bull, and you are much more than any matador. You are in control, and nothing's going to go anywhere more than it needs to go. And why did you allow this to happen, this havoc, this wreck?
Well, because someone there. is struggling.
Someone there does not know what to do. About their pain and suffering. They don't know how to lean into God. They don't know how to trust God. They don't know how to seek Him, and they're struggling.
Mm-hmm. And so Much of our suffering is not for ourselves. Again, again, I'm repeating. I know I'm repeating myself, but that does not mean that it becomes just a piece of cake, like a walk in the park. And maybe you could talk about that a little bit, about how we do involve other people.
You know, I was raised. Kind of, I was raised around people where if something's going wrong, you know, you keep it, you keep it hush, hush. And it was never really understood why. It was just you don't burden people with your problems. You don't talk about your problems.
They're your problems. And you just keep it within the confines of your household. And I've still carried that into my adult life where, I mean, I know some people are private about their problems. I get that. But then it's also like you just don't talk about it.
Even if people ask you, like, hey, how's, how's this thing going in your life? You're like, it's all good, man. God's good. And you just. Move on.
So, to Christians like that who might struggle with involving other people in their prayer life, what encouragement would you give them or what wisdom would you give them even? I mean, I would say, follow James right here. He says, Let him call for the elders of the church. Elders does not mean elderly, it does not mean you just have to get old people and bring them all and say, Can you all come and pray for me? We all know that prayer is hidden.
Now, there are a lot of elders who are mature, older saints, right? Senior adults. Praise God for that. But what it simply means is people who are mature in their faith. Mature does not mean perfect.
Mature means people who get the heart of God. They are walking in the scriptures, in the Bible. They are living in the power of the Holy Spirit. They're seeking to live the life of Christ, okay, through him, for him.
So. Get people like that to come and pray over you, anointing him with oil. in the name of the Lord. Oil in the Old Testament and New Testament was a sign of refreshment. Oil was a sign of healing and encouragement.
You know, sometimes when you're going through those difficult Situations, maybe it's relational problems, sicknesses, financial struggles. Or or whatever. To have someone come and pray with you. But pray with faith. Pray with hope.
Pray with power. I mean, we're going to talk about that later on. Maybe we're not going to get to finish that part about praying with power. But they pray with power. It brings something i it it's like brings life into you.
And it is an answer to prayer. It brings. It's like a freshness comes in. You feel like you're sitting in this. In this room with the with the blinds pulled down and no light, and barely a little bit of ray of sunlight was coming through, but all of a sudden somebody came in and and just opened the blinds.
Not that blinding you, but kind of opened it. It's a beautiful sunny day. Yeah. And You feel like, oh. Life is okay.
It's gonna be okay. Yes, I still have the pain. Yes, I still have issues to resolve. Yes, there is a still a massive bill sitting here, but I feel like God is operating. God is moving.
I can speak to that because, you know, our son has been sick for the past four weeks now, going on, going on a month. He's been, maybe three weeks, let me say, but it's been nothing but just weeping, crying. My legs hurt, waking up in the night, not sleeping, not eating, and it's just drained the energy. And when I picked up my oldest today and took him home, they put him on amoxicillin yesterday. He was laughing.
I heard him laughing. I heard him laughing like an hour ago. at the time of recording and Yeah. It did exactly what you said. I felt like just hearing him laugh.
I could breathe again. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, life came in. But it wasn't like, but he's still, he's skinny.
He still looks sick. He still is sick. But hearing him laugh, because he, because Gavin, Gavin came home and went in, and I heard him go, Gavin, and which he always did before and hasn't done in three weeks. And then I went upstairs. I, I, I think I changed my pants, something.
And I came back downstairs and I heard him laughing for the first time in three weeks. And I didn't realize how much I had missed it. And I think that's exactly what you're saying: these things come in, the sun, the light comes in, and you realize what you've lost when you haven't been praying or you haven't been praying. You know, another thing I would encourage people to be. Be that light bringer in someone's life.
Be that person who brings freshness, encouragement. Lift people up. Not by like telling jokes and you can. If you're a joke teller, by all means, be a comedian. But be that person who lifts people's spirits.
Don't always be a harbinger of bad news. You just come in and by the time you're done, The other person, I have some friends and they're wonderful people. I love God. I thank God for them. Without them, I couldn't do what I'm doing.
But there are many conversations I've had. I walked away going, I think you just dumped your backpack on top of me. You just put your huge duffel bag. on top of me.
Now I'm over here struggling to get out from under that. You you stand right there, and I'm just gonna Yeah, they do you people will do that. And then it it ends with like, hey man, I'm do you know what? Everything's about faith. We're going to trust God.
It's going to work out. Like, yes, I 100% agree. But right now, I'm under this. I'm going to work my way out. By God's grace, I'm going to come through.
And I'm glad you're free. Right. But you used me to unfree yourself and work out your problems and get your way to God. But you could have done that. By yourself, by praying.
But truly trusting, but you used me to do that. That's okay.
Sometimes pastors have to do that. Yeah, it's not fun. Yeah. It's not fun. Just give me a second.
I got to dig out from underneath the pile that you gave me. But that's great. I'll get there. But that's great advice, though, to be that ray of light for someone else and to be that encouragement for people. Yeah.
I think that's something we don't. Think about it enough, especially as we're because we're so involved in ourselves, right? This whole thing about how to pray and how I should develop my pray life. Or my prayer life without realizing that God may be developing someone else's prayer life, and you're the answer. You're the answer to bringing that encouragement back into.
Yeah, be that oil. I can tell a story. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so growing up in India, you know, it's very hot. It gets very hot.
So you use oil. You put oil in your hair, coconut oil. And people don't understand that, but coconut oil has a way of cooling your head. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's like it's got that tingle, that sort of cool tingle.
No, it's not. It's just something about coconut oil. It just does that. It's not like the minty feeling? No, it's nothing minty in coconut oil.
Nothing at all. Not to my knowledge. Never felt minty.
Okay.
But it just on its own, when it stays there, it cools.
Now, don't try that with peanut oil. You're going to catch on fire. Yeah, don't do that.
Somebody's got vegetable oil. I don't feel so good. How does somebody smell that? That's not what we said. Don't do that.
Coconut oil, coconut oil.
So, anyways, when I came to America, my mom gave me a big bottle of coconut oil. Use this. I'm like, oh, okay.
So I was going to class the first day of school, I think it was. I can't remember now. And I was like, ooh, coconut oil.
So I put some in my hair. Didn't realize the temperature had dropped outside. Oh, no.
So I walk in to class. And people looked at me, had a double take. Coconut oil, when it's like, like cool, it's sort of, you know, kind of, you know. becomes like icing. Yeah.
So I'm walking around like with icing in my hand. Did you look like he had frosted tips? Yes. I was like, huh, that's not good. Like a big schmear of a cinnamon roll.
Yeah, I look like. What is that one, the opposite of Santa Claus, the Frost Mr. Oh, the Jack Frost. Jack Frost. Yeah, that's what was me.
So you had black hair at the time and then just a big smear of white. Yeah, I mean, I yeah. Did it at least look cool? No. No.
Like, it didn't even look like it was on purpose? No, it just people were like, that's soap in here. No, it's coconut oil. Yeah. So the whole point I'm making here is we don't need to necessarily have a bottle of oil.
When we pray for people or something like that, if you want to, if it makes you feel great, by all means, use that all. But you can just bring the presence of the Holy Spirit. In that hospital room, in that living room, in that counseling room, in the sanctuary, in the lobby, in the center school, you can bring that or in the parking lot. It doesn't matter where you are, you can bring it without necessarily having a bottle of oil. I kind of feel like I want Christians to start doing that.
Like, if you're coconut oil? Yeah, if your friends are annoyed. Yeah, if your friends are going through a hard time, it's like, I am praying for you. You spray it all. Oh, let me ask you this: if someone did it in our sanctuary and got oil on the carpet, are you annoyed?
Yeah. For real? Yeah, I am. You didn't even hesitate. No, I'm a little annoyed.
But I wouldn't be annoyed about somebody praying for someone. Make sure that you not only are spending time in prayer, like we said, the more you pray, the more you realize how important and how needed prayer is in your own life. That's right. And maybe you're listening and saying, maybe I don't have anybody to pray for me. Hey, you've got people here at the Clear Read Today Show who would love to pray for you.
So if we can pray for you in any way, we'd count it a privilege to do so. Write in and let us know: 252-582-5028. We're going to continue the discussion on top of. Tomorrow's episode. Thank you to our sponsors for making today's episode possible.
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