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Now let's get into the show. There's one element of life that Christians will either avoid like the plague or run headfirst into, and that is conflict. Understanding how to handle that and more coming up right now on the Cleary Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Show with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah. If you're listening for the very, very first time today, we want to say welcome.
We're glad you're joining us. And we're going to let you know exactly who's talking to you. Dr. Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr.
Shah, welcome. I'm excited to be here. Me too. It's going to be a great day. You know, part of not only the Christian life, but just life in general.
You know, if you're ever going to interact with other people in this life, you're going to have conflict. No. I got scared. You said conflict. I don't like it.
I don't like it. I know. You're 100% right. Conflict is a part of the human experience. No, it's not.
Don't say that it is. Oh, sorry. I said that it is, and it is. All right, my bad. As much as we want to try to avoid it, me especially, I don't like conflict.
I'm not a person who leans into that at all, but you know, we've got to know how to deal with it. We've got to know how to handle it when it comes and how to handle it biblically. In life, you will have conflicts. Yes. You know, the Bible does say in life you will have tribulations, but also in life, you will have conflict.
If you are a person of any convictions, even small convictions, you will have someone who will say, You're wrong and I'm right. Yeah. And that begins the conflict. Yeah. I think a lot of people, pretty much any sane person, if anyone is like, no, I actually enjoy conflict.
I like it. Like you might be a psychopath. Like pretty much all people. It's not fun for me. Yeah.
I really just feel very at peace. That one sparks joy. But I think pretty much everyone would say, no, I don't like conflict. I dislike it a great deal. But I think a lot of us, myself included, are debilitated by it.
As in conflict will come and it's like, now I don't know what to do because I will take all routes to avoid that, even though that is really what's needed. A lot of people think conflict means just drama. And to some extent, yeah, there is drama in life where there are, you know, people starting problems or they are fussing about issues that are not worth fussing about, and or they're just enjoying bantering back and forth. But that's not what we're talking about here. When James says here in James chapter 4, verse 1, where do wars and fights come from among you?
He's not thinking. About just that funny drama, or like we're just you know, playing with each other, and we got this thing going where I'm aggravating you and you're aggravating me. No, no, no. This is where wars and fights now, wars and fights can happen in a family, wars and fights can happen in a marriage, wars and fights can happen in a church, in a community. It is anything but fun.
It is painful. Shocking, it is life altering, it can really do some damage. And this is what James is referring to when he talks about conflict. Yeah. You know, I think that's it's so funny because You talk about the drama of it, and you know, we think about the stories that we love, movies we love, TV shows, books that we love, and all of them have conflict that we enjoy.
We liked, and even in real life, when you see conflict and drama happening in someone else's life, it's entertaining. It's the basis of our entertainment: seeing how the conflict is going to resolve. When it comes to our own life, though, it's so funny how not only do we try to avoid it, we hate it. We detest conflict in our own life.
Well, and like we've said over the past few episodes, Dr. Shaw, you've reminded us that James is writing to not 21st-century America.
However, the principles outlined in James are so relevant, they're so applicable for our lives today. I mean, human experience has changed, but really it hasn't. Absolutely. The message in the book of James is timeless. Right.
And. You know, talking about conflicts, Mary Esther Harding, who is a Jungian psycho psychoanalyst, she said this. She said, Conflict is the beginning of consciousness.
So, even those who don't believe the Bible acknowledge that conflict is part of life.
So James says it doesn't try to convince us that Hey guys, you're going to have conflicts or you're going to have wars and fights. He just declares this: where do they come from? And it's exactly what this psychoanalyst is saying. Conflict is the beginning of consciousness. Conflict Conflicts are a sign that you are alive.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The only people without conflict are actually dead people. Great point.
Yeah, they're not really getting into any arguments. Yeah. You know, one of the things that we do as a staff here at Clearview is we read books on leadership, right? And almost all of them have a section on dealing with conflicts, whether it's within. Your leadership structure or on the outside because it is an inevitable part of life, but a lot of times.
You will read them and you will accept as a reader that yes, conflicts are part of life, and a lot of times they are very healthy. That doesn't make them any easier, and we are still, even knowing the truth about them, we're still averse to going through them. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And so, James is going to help us with this.
And he begins by. Talking about the causes of conflicts. Where do wars and fights come from among you? And his answer is, Do they not come from your desires for pleasure? that war in your members.
So number one. Conflicts come from selfish Pleasures.
Now Meaning, the real conf culprit behind conflict is not personality differences. Oh, I'm just a. You know, I'm sort of an easygoing person, and you are so high-strung, and that's why we have a conflict. Not necessarily. You can be different personalities.
But There is a deeper problem, and the problem is selfishness. Yeah, yeah, we hear that a lot. I think, even in marriages, I think I've even said it in my marriages: like you're this type of person, and I'm that type of person, and we just butt heads over things. But really, we're missing the underlying truth, which is we want different things. Yeah, it's a self-preservation, means it's about my happiness, it's about what makes me feel comfortable, it's about what makes me.
And I know this may, some people may disagree with me and say, No, I have a mom who is, man, the most giving person, and I get it. She may be the most giving and sweetest person who lays down her life for her children, of course. And there are people like that, and praise God for them. But not all people are like that. I'm not talking about your mom, by the way.
So don't come looking for me. Don't add me. But I'm sure she has her selfishness as well. Yeah, of course. Because we all do.
Yep. In life, we all do. There's only one person who didn't have that, and that was Jesus. That's right. Or is Jesus?
We all have that self in us, which is sinful, and it only thinks about self. And no one else. At the end of end of the day, it's about me.
Now some are Kind of, you know, too obvious. It's about me. I'm going to take the last piece of pie. It's about me. I get to pick the movie.
It's about me. And I decide where we go out to eat. It's about me. I'm going to wear the nice clothes and whatever y'all, you know. Yeah, that's very obvious.
But then there's always also the subtle kind of. selfishness which is not as obvious. But at the end of the day, it's still revolving around that person. I think you're exactly right. And you guys probably remember this.
I'm living it out right now, which is that phase of life where you have young children, really, really young children. And the selfishness is on full display. My two kids, and I've said this to you guys before, but I have walked in and they're fighting. And when I say fighting, I mean arguing, I mean physically fighting fists out over a lump of brown ruined Play-Doh. Yep.
You know what I'm saying? I want that. He took it. And it's childish. And it's.
Funny to is quote unquote funny to watch on the surface. We have this idea that we grow out of that, but we really just get better at hiding it. We get more sophisticated at justifying it, we get more sophisticated and eloquent at rationalizing why we do this silly, childish thing. But it's the same thing. I want that.
And you're keeping me from getting it.
Well, I think that speaks to your point, Dr. Shaw, that selfishness is something that's common to all people. Nobody has to teach a kid how to be selfish. I mean, just spend five minutes with a group of two and three-year-olds, and you're going to hear mine, you're going to hear whining, you're going to see people snatching toys from other people because they want what they want and they don't really have a concern about what other people want. You might have the outlying two or three-year-old who's just this angelic child who wants to take care of other people likes to do that.
No, you won't. But most of the time, toddlers are going to fight and they're going to argue because they're selfish. The Easter bunny brought some Easter baskets to my house, and they each had like the little Reese's eggs in there. The very first thing that Gavin asked was, How many does Holden have? He didn't open a single one of his.
Holden was looking at his, and Gavin goes, How many does he have? I said, Why does that matter? Gavin, what does that matter? How many do you have? He was like, I don't know.
He didn't even know how many he just wanted to make. Seriously, that's it. He wanted to make sure Holden didn't have more than him. And I'm like, what on earth? You just got to shake your head at it.
That's right. James Dobson says this: He says: There are two kinds of people in the world: the givers and the takers. A marriage between two givers can be a beautiful thing. Very rarely happens, by the way. Friction is the order of the day, however, for a giver and a taker.
But two takers can claw each other to pieces, which is probably most people in the world. Yeah, I would say so. Most. Within a matter of maybe six weeks, they can claw each other into the ground. In short, selfishness will devastate a marriage every time.
Oh, yeah, 100%.
So, when you sit down and talk to couples, Nicole does that. My wife is a counselor. I have done that many, many times. And of course, in our own marriage, you can see the selfishness come out in my life, in her life, in our lives together. And it's the root of our problems.
Dennis and Barbara Rainey, again, great marriage experts, they said it this way, Selfishness is possibly the most dangerous threat to oneness in marriage. Selfishness is a dangerous threat. the most dangerous threat to oneness. Oneness is what God wants for your marriage. The two shall become one flesh.
What will keep you from becoming one flesh? Selfishness We can go on for maybe a day. maybe six hours, maybe 45 minutes. But that selfishness will come out. And the taker will will do what a taker does.
And and we all have the taker in us.
some more than others or some More subtle, or we don't want to have the fight, so we kind of give in. But it's there, it affects how we talk to each other. how we divide responsibilities in our home, how we resolve conflicts. I'm quoting the Rainies here. Even how we spend our time, men stubbornly ignore the needs of their wives.
They prefer fishing or hunting or playing golf or even spending an extra hour or two at the office. They go on to say, or he goes on to say, I once met a pastor. Who frequented Christian bookstores and libraries for the sole purpose Of avoiding his wife. Guys. Yeah.
And I have counseled women who spend countless hours shopping. Not for their families, but to avoid responsibilities at home. And to gratify themselves. Yeah, you can definitely tell like who, or even if it's yourself, like when you enter into a marriage because you thought that other person was going to make you whole, they were going to make you happy. And then when you spend years not finding that, and even I think people outside of Christianity, that's what they go into marriage thinking is like your job is a spouse is to make me happy.
I'm, I'm doing this because I feel this hole in myself that I want you to fill. And then, you know, my whole marriage is built on the fact that what am I getting from you? What are you giving me? You know, how are you sustaining me?
Well, one of the first things, you know, that you hear in, if you have a good premarital counselor, because Dr. I've heard you say this to couples before, is that if you're looking for happiness or satisfaction in the other person, you're going to be disappointed. Yeah. Because people are going to disappoint you. We're imperfect.
We're sinful. We make mistakes. Even the best person, the Prince Charming, your princess, the one that has your heart and is this wonderful, perfect picture, they're going to disappoint you. They're going to fall short of this expectation of perfection because humans can't be perfect. That's right.
Satisfaction and wholeness and fulfillment in Jesus, and then bring that into a marriage relationship. That's right. You know, James goes on to say: you lust after something, but you do not have it.
So you commit murder. Hm. You covet after something but you cannot obtain it, so you fight and war. In other words, selfishness branches out into lusting and coveting what someone else has.
So it doesn't just say like it's about me or I want it. It's more about now. I want what you have. Yeah. Yeah.
And even if I don't have what you have, I am going to see that I'm going to resent you for having it. and our entire demeanour falls, our entire countenance. falls just like Cain's countenance fell. Means his his his face just dropped. There was a Harshness that came over it.
There's a lifelessness that came over it, like almost like a devilish. Satanic glare Kind of an emptiness in his eyes. Because of selfishness. Yeah, we talked about an episode where does sin come from, and I think it was in James as well. It was a couple of weeks ago where he says.
You know, it comes from your desire. It comes from the selfish desire. And I can see conflict, like especially unhealthy conflict, like this, being that middleman to where you have this desire in you and it's starting to take root and it's bringing conflict into your life. And when it doesn't. Get handled properly, it leads to sin.
You know, it leads to secrets, it leads to stepping out or doing something unbecoming to fulfill that. That Lustful desire. Dangerous? Are all desires do they inevitably lead to selfish places? Great, great question.
Because people often wonder that. Is ambition wrong?
So nothing wrong with that. It's just your. Reaction to it. You know what are you going to do about that, the sinfulness, the selfishness? Is it because you cannot bear to see them?
That's a whole different issue. Yeah, definitely.
So we need to make sure there's a distinction maintained. Yeah. Especially when you get in that portion of your life where your friends are buying houses and they're buying cars and they're having kids and you feel that envy rising up in you. Dr. Joe, what is your advice to people who feel that or who feel that but feel ashamed of feeling it?
Like, I know that's wrong. I know that's not the way God wants me to feel, but I just can't help it. I can't deny that I am feeling it. Yeah. Well, go back to James Again.
Because James says very clearly in the next line, yet you do not have because you do not ask. The remedy for this selfish, covetous, lustful mindset. is prayer. Ask God for it.
Now let's go deeper. If you see someone's marriage being sort of ideal, which by the way is a big fat lie, no one's marriage is ideal. Very true. They all have their issues, even if they don't have the The problems or conflicts out in the open that everybody can see it does not mean. That is an ideal, unless you believe that there are two people born completely sinless.
You know, it's not We're all sinful human beings. And so, even those beautiful, sweet couples that seem like, man, they're such in love, which I'm sure they are. Yet there is sinfulness there too.
Okay. What is my point? When you see them. Instead of saying, I wish I had that marriage. Don't say that.
Say, God, make this marriage that you're in. A good, happy, Christ-honoring marriage. That's prayer. Don't look at somebody else's kids and wish. Your kids were like that, or somebody else's job, or somebody else's house, or car, or church.
or whatever. Turn that into prayer before the enemy sees what's happening. If he sees. That your eyes are turning green, if you know what I mean by that, the envious eyes, quickly pray and say, God, I want you to answer this in my life. And God may not do that today, tomorrow.
It may be. You know, a couple of years from now, that's fine. He will answer your prayers. Mm-hmm.
So ask him. Yeah. and there's nothing off limits. What do you need?
Well, I mean, I can't just ask God for like money, though. I can't just ask you. You can't ask God for money. I can't ask him for a new car. I can't ask him for a house.
Matthew 7:7, ask and it'll be given to you. Seek and you will find. Knock and it will be open to you. I mean, you both can testify that in the past year you prayed for a house. Yes.
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So thank you for that. Thank you to Mighty Muscadine for sponsoring this episode. Let's jump in. Yeah, prayed for a house, prayed for a house, and prayed specifically. We wanted a house with enough yard room for the kids to grow up, with enough rooms for them to be able to have sleepovers, have the youth over and do the spring retreats.
Yes, of course. We prayed for specifics and God answered them. Prayed for a house that was close to Clearview. It's 60 seconds down the road. Same thing.
Prayed for enough space for our kids and their friends and our students and close enough to the kids' school when they start driving. They're nearby, close enough to the church that we're still right around the corner. And God answered our prayer. Tucked away, far enough away from the world that we feel like, you know, this is our little corner of the world, but still nearby that we're still equidistant from everybody. Yes, one of them.
Without a shadow of a doubt, it was God every step of the way. I mean, putting everything on paper, 100% it was God and the people that God brought into our life. One of our major prayers with our house that we just bought was that God keep us close to Clearview, keep us close to where life is happening, and keep us close to the staff so that we can continue becoming a family. And within, I would say, six months, almost all of us became practically neighbors. Yes.
You know what I mean? Ryan, I think, lives. Maybe, maybe two minutes, maybe two minutes away from us. David lives two streets down. Adam lives a f Adam lives like a further street down.
So, I mean, all of us are practically here in the same neighborhood together. And it's it's I mean, I could more or less see the church from our yard.
So, I guess what I'm saying is, like, God. In his wisdom, he showed me that you can pray for specifics. You don't have to say, God, thy will be done, whatever you think is best. I'm just kind of here. You know, he, this, this passage, I think, became much more real for me.
Absolutely. This year. Absolutely. And in doing so, you know, God gives you the vision to see what that could be. Instead of just like, you know, God, one day, if it's your will, hopefully, maybe possibly there will be a house.
No, I mean, God, help me to see specifics. Help me to see specifically what you have for me and help me to desire the thing that you want for me. It was absolutely eyes of faith seeing, like, no, this is what God wants for us. This is what God has for us, and we're going to move forward with it. And maybe you can expand on this a little bit, Dr.
Shub, but had we not done that, Had we said, gosh, I wish my house was as good as theirs, or as big as theirs, or as green as their yard was as green as theirs, instead of God's will becoming the focal point.
Now they're the reference point that person. They're now the standard. And that exactly is lust. That's exactly covetousness. When we.
Fail to pray and we focus on whatever that is. That is lust. That is covetousness.
So, you know, James warns us: you ask and you do not receive, because there is a place where prayers are not answered. And that may be because of God's timing. That maybe because God is maturing you, that is maybe because other situations have also to line up. We're not robots.
So, God has to work on individual hearts based on their personalities, based on the setting that they're in. You know, here I'm praying for, or let's say, not me, let's say a farmer here is praying for rain. Mm-hmm.
And a farmer over there is praying for the rain to stop. What is God going to do? Right? I mean, he's got a He's got to take both those prayers into account.
So, how does God do that? In His divine wisdom, He knows how to do it.
So, He knows when, yes, this is going a little too far, but I think this will be okay. This right here, maybe it needs to come to a halt. God knows what He's doing. And sometimes there is droughts, and sometimes there is a flood. But that also works into God's divine plan.
Somehow it works. And if you're a sceptic, if you're an quote unquote atheist, Or a doubter? Yeah, you can always raise up another question, another question, another question. Yeah, you can, if you want to. But for me I'm not a sceptic.
I'm not a gullible person either. But I believe That the living, true triune God, the one who has revealed himself in the word, is sovereign, is in control, and he is in control of his world, and he answers our prayers. According to the best of his will for us.
So, when you ask, you do not receive.
Sometimes it's because. It's not time yet. Yeah, that's true. Other things have to come into play. One of my favorite responses you've ever given, Dr.
Shah, is to the person who is saying, Well, what about this? And what about this? And like you just said, raising question after question. You can ask those questions, but at some point, you're going to have to be okay with the God of the universe knowing and being capable of more than you are. Absolutely.
At some point, you're just going to have to. You're not God. Exactly. He is God. You have to trust him.
And just, you know, there's a place where you're like, I'm not sure if I'm ready to trust him. I get it. Mm-hmm.
I get it. I totally get it. Ask questions. Until you're ready. But just know.
There will never be a point where you will not have to exercise faith.
So, getting your questions answered is not so that you can place your faith in God. Getting your questions answered. is to say, Okay, I have enough Lack of a better term, collateral there that I can go ahead and make this purchase. I may not have the whole amount. But I have enough here that I can make that purchase.
So, also faith. Yeah. You go ahead and ask, and then God's timing it'll come.
Now, here's something else. James says in verse 3. you ask and do not receive because you ask amiss. That you may spend it on your pleasures.
So, still kind of going back to what causes this conflict, is these sinful pleasures. Right. But here, even if you pray, it doesn't come through.
Well, maybe check your motive. Mm-hmm.
Now, don't forget what I just said for the past five minutes.
Sometimes those prayers are not answered because God is not ready to answer those prayers. Mm-hmm.
God is working, other factors are in play. But sometimes it's because You are asking for the wrong reasons. But I want a jet plane so that I can take the gospel of Christ. I don't want to be sitting in a big metal tube filled with just. I can't say the gospel of the nations if I'm flying economically.
That's why I need a jet plane, Dr. Shah. Doesn't God understand that? You know, I know exactly what you're saying, and I'm not shady anymore. I know what you mean, and I know what you're referring to.
Here's a passage for you, for you out there: Matthew 6:33. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you. That's right. That's right. His kingdom, his righteousness.
Go after it. And the rest of it will follow. I do, I do exactly understand what you're saying. And I do love this idea that you pray for the things for the right reasons. And it sounds like too simple of an answer.
And I think what's one of the things that I've really fallen in love with about the book of James is that in its simplicity, there is a profound truth. And it's not like I have to go digging for this really deep, hidden answer under the simplicity. The simplicity of, hey, you have to ask this for the right reason is the profound truth I've been avoiding. Right. You know what I mean?
Yeah. Yeah. It's in the simplicity of James, we're led to the truth. Dr. Tron, the time that we have left, we've got maybe just a few minutes.
Speak to the person who's listening or who's watching this episode and who has realized in themselves, man, I really am a selfish person. I didn't think I was selfish. I thought I, you know, looked out for other people and did my civic duty and took care of other people. But I really am selfish. I really am, you know, desiring wrongly.
in my life desiring out of out of envy of what other people have. How can I course correct? What steps can I take?
Well, you already took the first step. When you say that you are a selfish person, you have. Done the A of the ABC, which is admitted. Admitting is the biggest. Step.
Admitting that you have a problem. You know, when you and your wife have a conflict. And let's say it goes on for several days, admitting, yeah, she may be wrong. or vice versa. But admitting that you also have a problem.
As a husband or as a wife, you have a problem is a huge step, and the moment you admit that. You can almost hear the chain breaking. What chain are we talking about? The chain that the enemy has around you. And the enemy whispering to you, or even shouting to you, and saying, This is not one that you should compromise.
You should not give ground. You should. What is he saying? He's appealing to your pride, he's appealing to your selfishness, he's appealing to your ego. But the moment you say yes, she may be wrong, or yes, he may be wrong, but I too.
I'm not handling this the right way. I also have a problem. That is the place to begin. That's the place where you can now turn to. Repentance.
Turn to seeking God's grace in your life, seeking God's intervention in your life, seeking the power of Jesus Christ to bring peace and healing and reconciliation. This is where you can see the Holy Spirit beginning to do things that you can never, ever, ever do in your own power.
Now, all of a sudden, things begin to work out. Not immediately, but they begin to work out. Admitting is the first huge step. That you also are a sinner. You also have selfishness in your life.
Yeah, and we want to talk about those other steps as well. But unfortunately, we are out of time, but we're going to be talking about this more because conflict is something that is not going to go away in your life. You're not going to listen to this one episode or these couple episodes and suddenly be conflict-free. But we want to equip you with the tools that you need to deal with it God's way. That's right.
We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearby Today.
