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Now let's jump into the show. It's weird, I keep hopping from job to job, church to church, place to place, town to town, and for some reason I never find myself satisfied. Cracking the code on longevity is coming up right now in the presentation. Yeah. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr.
Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome back to the Clearview Today studio with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah.
If you're listening for the very first time today, Dr. Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, welcome. It's good to be here.
Amen. I'm excited about the topic today. Yes, it is. This is a good one. Good one.
Good one. But speaking of good topics today, it was brought on by today's verse of the day from Sandra P in Chicago, Illinois. Sandra P, what is the verse that she sent us? Sandra P sent us specifically Jeremiah 17, verses 7 and 8a. Ooh, Sandra, I think Sandra might be something of a biblical scholar.
She might be. Sandra 8A.
So it says, Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord and whose hope is in the Lord, for he shall be like a tree planted by the waters. Wow. I like that. You know, that could certainly pass for just verse 7. It's a complete thought.
All right, but it's seven and eight. Dr. Shop, being planted like a tree by the waters, it has this image of longevity, where you are planted, that's where you stay. And I know that's advice that you've given to pastors, to ministry leaders, to bloom where you're planted. But where do you think this comes from?
Like, where do you think this idea comes from that wherever God puts you in your life, that's where you should invest yourself? Yeah, you see that in biblical characters in the Old Testament. You see that in the apostles in the New Testament. These were people who persevered. The word that the Bible uses is perseverance.
So use that not only for your Christian life, but also use it for your professional life, for your family life, for your work life. And I hope we dive into this deeper today because there are reasons why people don't persevere. And hopefully once you see that. By the power of God you'll be able to make some changes.
Okay, you and I cannot change ourselves, but by the power of the Holy Spirit, we can change the trajectory of our life. We don't have to be bound by our upbringings. We can choose to persevere. Yeah. So I'm excited about talking on this topic.
I think a lot of times when people hear the word perseverance, they think in the face of adversity or in the face of difficulty or hardships that are coming to them, not just perseverance for the sake of longevity or perseverance for the sake of blooming and being successful where God has placed you. And when we say like bloom where you're planted, maybe correct me if I'm wrong on this, Dr. Shaw, but you're not necessarily saying wherever you're born and the circumstances you're born into, you have to make the best of that. Don't seek to change your environment. It's not that.
No, not at all. I mean, we're saying, you know, if you, if you want to. Um Uh embark on a educational journey, by all means. If you feel like there are better opportunities out there that will help you grow and mature and use the gifts and talents that you have, by all means do that. But if constantly every other year You are moving, you're shifting, you're changing jobs.
Something's wrong with that. Yeah. What are some of the reasons that people look for those changes? Like, is there a specific timeframe where people begin to start looking to the right or to the left? Or is there some maybe life factors that happen that come in that cause them to start saying, you know what?
I think it's time for a change. Yeah. Like, I think it's time to mix things up a little bit. Like, I can see, like, okay, maybe this person's in their 40s, 50s. They're going through a midlife crisis.
They're trying to figure this thing out. But even in my life, I've seen this behavior in like 20-somethings. Like people that I've known, people that I grew up with, it seems like every year, or maybe even sometimes every few months, there's a new job. There's a new church. There's a new lifestyle change.
And even those things where they do persevere for a while, like five, six, seven, eight years. It's a matter of time before they're going to move. They are very I don't know what the good word for that is. It's a very nomadic life. Is that a generational trait or is that a personality trait?
I think it's an upbringing trait. They saw that kind of a behavior growing up, or they lived in that kind of a turmoil where very quickly they feel. Either unappreciated or they feel like there needs to be some relief.
So uh i i if things get a little bit difficult. If you have to deal with somebody who does things a little bit different, or if you feel that they're looking down upon you, then you quickly have to get out of that situation. That's what I was about to ask: is this a fight-or-flight response where it's like. Like when we have problems come into our life, where the average person may say, or let's maybe even say one type of person would say, Okay, how can I overcome this obstacle? How can I even pray to help God, to ask God to help me overcome this obstacle?
This type of person would say, How do I avoid this obstacle? How do I get out of this? Yeah, I deserve better. It was great. Man, they took care of me and they.
I mean, it was great and everything, but you know, sometimes you just you it's just it's just bad. It was very toxic. And so you know, it was just like I felt like just didn't get appreciated. You think it's like Wow. That's the same thing you said about the last one.
Right. I feel like that becomes almost like the one before that. It's like the last 20 bosses I've had have all been toxic. They've all those bosses have done that has been toxic.
Well, you know, it's just the environment. And it's sort of this nebulous concept. There's not really any one clear-cut example. Yeah. And so that just becomes a label we slap on things when we're ready to move on.
Yeah. And I think it's because of an unsettled heart. It's an unsettled heart. which leads to this unsettled commitment to a job, to a church. Even at a church, they may stay for years and all of a sudden you go, You moving?
Why? I just I mean, we've been unsatisfied for a while. Really? Do you ever notice? Like, I'm thinking about the people that I know in my life, and it's always, it's never.
It's never like that, where it's like, I'm unsatisfied, I'm looking for something. It's always. Not only a situation, it's usually a person, like that they attack. It's always my boss, my director, my supervisor, whoever. He's super bad.
And I've always noticed that. Yeah, and tell me if this happens in the church too, where they always attack the person's character, like the pastor's character, the boss's character. It almost always. Excuse that way rather than I just can't find what I'm looking for. Yeah, it's it's always toxic.
And I do agree. There are places which are toxic. They are just, they don't help you grow. You don't feel good. You get.
You feel sick every time you go there. You know, it's just not a place you want to be. Did you ever work in a place like that? Have I ever? When you were younger?
No, not really.
Okay. Not really. I've never really been in a situation. No, I have been. in situations like that where you feel sick because of you know people are just all against you.
Yeah, I've done work like that where I felt like, man, I'm watching over my shoulder to see what you're up to. Right. But it hasn't been like every place I went because I have a different mindset. My mindset watching my parents grow up was We are going to plant ourselves here. If God wants us here, we're not leaving.
Right. You can do whatever you want to do. We're not leaving.
Now you can fire us. And then we may have to move along, and then it is what it is. But other than that, I'm not leaving. For leaving means I gave up. I gave in to you.
Now there are people who are listening and saying, I'm not a I don't give up. But I had to do.
Okay, well, you did give up. You did give up. You just think the reason you gave up was justified. Right, right. Sure.
You gave up. Yeah. But if you feel like God is there, you can send, and no job is perfect. There's no such thing as a perfect job. Every job, even here.
I mean, clearly it's an amazing place to work. But yeah, it has its ups and downs. It's stressful. It's a lot on our plate because we want to really make an impact. I mean, like just today, we had so many things back to back to back to back.
And then we had a funeral as well.
So that doesn't come with a warning. Right. So, all of a sudden, our workload just not really doubled, but it really increases. Oh, yeah, it'll increase exponentially because how do you plan for that? It's something that you have to be ready for.
You've done a great job over the years of getting systems into place so that when a funeral is required, we've got systems we know, like, okay, we can shift things around. But yeah, absolutely, it increases your workload. Yeah. When it comes back to why we do what we do, especially in a ministry setting, is number one, for you know, to advance the gospel so that people will get saved, but also because we're serving people. We love our people, we care for them.
And so, when life events come up, What's the alternative? We just don't do the funeral. We're not there for them. But it also goes back to what you said, Dr. Shaw, about our hearts being settled.
You know, like I think the three of us and our staff as well, we have a. An understanding that this is my home. This is my church. If God keeps me here by God's grace, And I'm able to make my way pure and live my life with integrity. I'll be here for the rest of my life.
So there's no sense of like, golly, this is too much. I might start looking for plan B. And there's people in ministry and people just in the secular jobs that just don't have that.
So this is an interesting concept of the idea of a settled heart because I feel like this applies in, you know, you talked about workplace. This applies in marriage. If you take the option of like, oh, this is difficult. This is hard. We're going to, you know, we're just going to call it quits.
No, we're going to make this work. I might be frustrated with you. You might be frustrated with me. We got to work through some stuff. But there's not an alternative.
Same is true for us in this context. You know, there's not an alternative, we're going to make this work. And you know, I feel like that applies in so many different ways. How can we cultivate that idea of a settled heart? Yeah, you have to begin by not really, really discarding your past, like your upbringing.
Like your parents, your grandparents, your family, love them. Love them. You know, there's no call for hating your family. Love them, but at the same time, know that. I ha um I have to move forward.
I thank you for the impact you made on my life, but I have to move. Forward. In fact, he even thanked them because they did the best they could. Don't hate them. Don't be like, you're the reason for my faults.
You're the reason for my problems. I'm the way that I am. It's because of, no. Just say you did the best that you could. And one day you will see that You're proud of me, right?
Yeah. But even if you don't see it in this life, I know on the other side you will know. That I did so much more that you were hoping for me and even didn't realize, but I've achieved.
So Learn to leave the past in God's hands? And step out? Trusting God, grateful for your family. But trusting God for Um For shaping you, maturing you, growing you, and using you. And with that comes perseverance.
You know, this show is called Clear View Today. And so, if let's pretend like we're looking at this issue through the lens of a camera, if we were to zoom in and tighten the focus up, we have this really blurry image of. What satisfaction in the Christian life looks like, right? Like we accept Jesus.
So from now on he's our satisfaction. He should be all for us and we should never want or... Need for any sort of emotional satisfaction again, right? But we know that's not true because there's people who are Christians who are acting like this, hopping from church to church, hopping from job to job, never looking. Where is this discrepancy coming from?
Wow. Yeah. I think um Again, going back to upbringing is a big part of that. Lack of investment in where they are. Also um Is a big part of that.
Upbringing, not just in the sense of seeing. Parents and grandparents being very transient in their daily lives, actions, behavior, no investment in the community, no investment in the church life, just living in their own world. And you have that same thing. You feel like that's what I need to do, because that's what they did. Yeah.
You can always trace it back. and see the the uh for example, in my own family, My dad left his his family. to follow Christ. But he did not just bounce around. He was not just a um Tumbleweed, just going through life, just going from place to place to place.
No, he had a very solid, established family. Our family tree goes back. Fifteen hundred years. Wow. That's quite amazing to see that.
Yeah. So once He finished his education once he came to the church where God was calling him. He surrendered to that. He burnt his ships and he planted himself in that little town with a little church that was not going anywhere, run by a family. And just No future.
He said, I'm staying here. He made up his mind.
Now, of course, there were days he would struggle and he would go talk to his. mentor, doctor Fred Shalander, and he would always have a resignation letter in his pocket. to give to him. And Dr. Fr Frederlander would take that resignation letter and put it in his pocket.
Oh, actually, he gave it to my My grandfather, Thomas Franklin, and then later on he would give it to Fred Shalander, same thing. Resignation letter, like, I think I'm done. And Thomas Franklin would take it, put it in his pocket, and then two, three days later, my dad would be like, give it back. They would go back and forth. That's funny.
But since he grew up with that kind of a mentality, he came to the church with that same spirit that I am going to invest myself here. I'm not going here, I'm not going there. And he was invited. Several times bigger churches called him, wanted him him to come be their pastor and he would not leave. Wow, that's such an important example for people to hear because just because you have a settled mind and just because you say, This is where I am, I burn my ships, doesn't mean you don't struggle.
Yeah. Doesn't mean you're exempt from that. That's important for people to realize. Yeah, you'll have tough days. Yeah.
We had tough days. Uh, being in this community, Henderson, North Carolina, pastoring a small church, struggling church in sort of a bad section of town. Not that the people around were bad, it's just uh. The people who came into that community from outside were coming there for the wrong reasons, that made it bad.
So it was tough. It was tough. Um, and yes, there were times we thought about moving along and going somewhere else and trying again, and then my dad's words came back to me: if you run now, you can run all your life. Yeah, and I was like, I can't do that. Yeah.
So I Stayed and thank God. Look at look at today what we're doing. Amen. Amen. You know, I'm thinking about the people that are listening to this.
And I'm sure there's a ton of people who are listening to this that are saying, Yes, amen. You know, I've been at this church, first church, only church. 40, 50 years. But let's say there are young people, maybe people in their middle age who know: okay, this is me. I would assume these are people who would probably begin with denial.
Okay, I hear what you're saying, but you don't understand. You don't know what my work is. My situation was different. My situation was different. We had to leave.
How do you begin? to address people like that. I would say just truly be honest with yourselves. Look in the mirror. Ask yourself.
Is there a pattern here? And you have to be honest. And if you see that there is a pattern, which means it's not the job, it's not the people, it's not none of that, it's you. And it's unfortunate because you picked that bad habit up from your family, you picked that bad habit up because of your own personality, bad experiences in life, pressure got high a little high and you had to move. You kept moving.
And so, I'm not even here blaming that person. All I'm saying is, look in the mirror. And you will find the source of your problem. And then begin to, by God's grace, start making some changes and say, I got to stop this. Yeah.
It's not your fault, it's not your fault, it's not their fault, it's not somebody else's fault. It's not even my fault, but it is unfortunate. This is a pattern that I have adopted in my life. I need to stop. Yeah.
Do you think there's a way to reframe it?
So instead of, so let's say they accept that. I've looked in the mirror.
Okay, this is a problem that I have. Rather than stop doing this, is there a way to frame it to say these are the rewards of perseverance? This is what perseverance brings in your life.
Okay, so for me it was Years ago Okay, going when I say years ago, I'm talking about 2003. to about two thousand five six. I began to craft out a vision for my life. I read in a couple of books, Christian books, about you need to have a vision for your life. This is also about the time that I was Looking for God's vision for our church This is also about the time that I became the principal of a school, and I began to help the school discover.
It was a Christian school, discovered that core values, mission, vision. All those kind of things.
So vision was like heavy on you. Heavy from 2003 to about, I would say, 2008. For this five years, personal church. School. I was trying, I was living in this world of what is the vision, how does vision work.
and I was thirty years old. You know, 2023, 30 years old.
So I was like, okay, I have 20 years before I hit the half. time point. I can do this now. No sense in doing this 10 years from now when I'm 40. It needs to happen now.
So that's when I began the process of discovering my vision. God-given vision. It's a lot of prayer, a lot of study of God's word, a lot of examining. the lives of people who were successful For God in the word In history People who were successful in business. I used to look at them and say, Wow, they're very successful.
Let me see how they did in their family. Oh. Not that hot. You've been married and divorced four times. I can't go with that.
Somewhere you're not doing it right. Yeah, yeah.
Somewhere you failed. You may be a great president. You may have written. the bestseller book on whatever subject, but you could not could not stay with one person for life. Four times you did this, so something is not right.
So I would put them aside. I don't try to judge them or hate them. I'm not ready to follow your life after that because something is missing there. Glaring and insufficient. There's a problem.
And that is a significant red flag to watch out for. That was my big test. Anytime I found somebody who was successful, I felt like, man, that's pretty good. I can, let me look at their marital relationships. Oof.
Yeah. That's that's crazy. I don't I I didn't know that.
Okay, sorry. You didn't make the cut. Yeah. I got to find somebody else.
So looking at. such people I then began to draw out the commonalities of what they were doing right. And one thing that all of them had Was what what they call it stick to itis. They were stick to it. They would stick to it no matter what.
Not jump from this church to that church, not jump from this business to that business. They were not into climbing the ladder and. Hanging onto someone else's success. We're building something. We're crafting something here.
Right. You are going to be the master of your own fate. Again, keep in mind when I say that. Please remember, we're talking about God being sovereignly in control. His providence is all over us.
Without him, nothing would be possible.
So, when I say that, Master of your own fate. I'm not saying without God. Right, that's right. I mean, this is. Everything is God.
So Um Once I found that that was a big part of that, I said, okay, that's what I'm going to be. I'm going to of course stick in my marriage. I'm not going to uh even consider stepping out. Mm-hmm. Which I wasn't going to anyways, but Just to kind of make that clear.
Uh with my Education at the time, I was um doing so many things that my PhD sort of took a back burner.
So I said, okay, I am going to make sure that I'm going to stick to this and finish it. It was very tough. 250 to 300 pages of dissertation, footnoted, all these things, while at the same time. Having a family of four children and a wife, my wife did an amazing job, you know, keeping us all together. While also trying to work a second job, being a principal of a school, while at the same time helping a church grow and transition into a kind of a church that knows its vision and mission and core values and moving forward, while at the same time taking care of my health.
I mean, so so many things are happening. while at the same time being involved in the community. Being a chaplain at the hospital. all these things. But I felt like Yes, I cannot give these things up.
But I need to finish my doctoral work.
So, I mean, y'all were here at the time. Yes, absolutely. I remember thinking. In the early stages, like you've got, like, even if you don't have a PhD, like, it's almost like, as I was in the point where it was like, in the undergrad, it's like, I don't need this right now. I think the fact that you were like, it's not about needing it.
I want it. And I'm going to make sure that I get it, even if it takes 20 years. That stuck with me because I had been taught that ambition was ungodly. Wanting something and pursuing it with that level of excellence and passion, I had been taught that's not what God wants for you. You've said on more than one occasion that a PhD is not.
Primarily about academics, although that is involved. It's about tenacity, it's about your stick-tuitiveness. We've been talking about that. Absolutely. Yeah.
So That that was a big part of that. Then it was um Just getting into the community. It's not easy to be an outsider.
Some of you pastors know that.
Some of you people know that. You've moved to a community, you love the community, and then you go. We've been here 20 years and we still feel like outsiders. I get it. Yeah.
To Then invest yourself and plant yourself and get involved in the community is difficult. Because people will always reject you because They were born and bred here. They go back three, four generations here. You just got here. I've been here 20 years.
It doesn't matter. Yeah. I've been here twenty five years. Doesn't matter.
So, what did I do? I said, I'm not going anywhere.
So, I'm going to genuinely try to make this place a better place. I'm actually doing what Jesus commanded us to do, which is be the salt and the light of the world.
So I'm going to do that. I'm going to genuinely do that, which means I'm going to genuinely get to know the people. Not this flaky Surface-y relationships, you know. Hey, buddy, how are you doing? Good to see you, man.
Man, what's the guy's name? Yeah, yeah, no, means you don't really care about that person, you only want that accolade, or you want to be known as a guy. No, you have, if you're going to. drop the anchor, then you really need to drop the anchor. You cannot drop a fake anchor.
Yeah. People can tell. People can can tell.
So genuinely getting to know people means you genuinely join those boards and those committees and you show up there and you sit there and you go there month after month. And you attend those meetings.
So would it be fair to say that a lot of these people who are struggling with this, who are always hopping from place to place to place, are really doing the bare minimum while they're there? Of course. And even if they get on those committees. You can just tell they're not here for this. They may even talk like it, sound like it, momentarily be vested in, but.
They're not.
So when they leave, It's like Maybe for five minutes people are like, Oh, I'm so sorry. What ha I mean, I didn't know. Uh, yeah, I understand. And then they're like, Okay, next. Yeah, business is back to business.
Yeah. Because they never were really connected, so when they left, they were never really missed.
So I have tried to invest myself here. And really, truly, genuinely get involved in the community. But so, also with you, you know, if you're listening to this right now, then you're identifying with this, like, man, I've had like 20 jobs in the last 10, 15 years, or 20 churches. It could be that you don't even know what those core values of yours are. And so, I hope all of this stuff that Dr.
Xiao is telling you is hitting home and is something that gets a piece of paper out, right? All this stuff, this is gold for your life. See if I can give you this verse, James 1:12. Blessed is the one who endures trials. Because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
Of course, this is in the context of the Christian life, but I think you can apply this to other aspects of your life as well. Absolutely. Give me a clearer perspective on the road ahead of you and why staying matters, why longevity is important. That's right. Guys, make sure you join us next time, same time, same place.
We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clear View Today Show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And if today's your first time listening to the show, hey, we love you. I'm glad that you're here. I hope you join us again tomorrow.
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