When you're suffering, sometimes the most painful word you can hear is just move on. And today we're going to talk about that, passive bystanders, and why silence in the face of injustice is never a neutral answer. Untacking all that and more coming up right now on the PB Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome again to the Clearview Today studio. We've got a great conversation with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah.
If today's your first time ever listening to the show, first and foremost, welcome. We're glad you're here, and we want to let you know exactly who's talking to you today. Dr. Abadan Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr.
Shah, back in the book of Job yet again. Absolutely. And we're going to be talking about justice. That's right. We started talking about that a little bit yesterday.
Unfortunately, we ran out of time.
Well, that happens, you know, when the conversation gets good. I've said it before, that's one of my favorite things. When the conversation gets really good, we're like, ah, I got to continue it to another episode. But there's so much in the book of Job. And we reminisced a little bit about that yesterday, about how, you know, going into Job, everybody thinks they understand what the story is, but there's so much depth.
There's so much theology wrapped up in the book of Job, both who God is, what it means. To be tempted at what it means to go through suffering. And we talked yesterday about the concept of justice as it ties to God's righteousness. Yeah, we think we, I mean, suffering is an obvious theme in the book of Job. That's the one everybody goes to, but we don't talk about justice a lot, right?
And especially when it comes to Job.
So you start thinking, like, okay, yeah, when you're suffering and you're going through something, the goal is just to move on. But where's the justice in that? If something really terrible happens to you and you didn't do anything wrong, you can't just move on. That's not just. And so, Dr.
Shah, what is the theme of justice as it plays out in the book of Job?
So, as I began last show, Explaining how complex the book of Job is. You know, I didn't realize that at the moment, how deep it is, how complex it is, the dialogue cycles and how everything works, and then seeing the role of Satan. And it's not that Satan caused the suffering, it is God. who bragged on His servant Job, and then Satan took that as an opportunity to then accuse him and all that stuff. Complexity.
Is one aspect we focused on leading up to the justice. But I want to highlight something before we talk about justice from the book of Job. The book of Job is so relevant. It's relevant. In 2026, because we're talking about justice or And now it's sort of become passe, which is social justice.
Job was talking about justice. 2000 BC. He was talking about justice. He was telling God that, please, you have to acquit me. You have to vindicate me.
You say, what does that mean for today? When people are going through trauma, One of the biggest needs is not comfort or grace or love or compassion, It is vindication.
Somebody to tell them. You're not wrong. In fact, You are You're doing what's right. What is happening to you, number one, is not a punishment. Number two is not a learning moment.
This is something That is happening Uh you know Because God is bragging on you. God is using you in a powerful way to use. Make a point, and it's not for you to learn a lesson. This is something that God is doing. Just know that you are vindicated.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a hard pill, I think, for us to swallow because we've stomached this idea for so long that God is punishing us or that God wants you. Maybe He's not punishing you, but there's a lesson you need to learn.
You're lacking in some way, and God's going to make you whole through this suffering. But that's a new thought, I think. And maybe preachers and pastors have said that before, but I've never heard it before: that God is using your suffering to brag on you, to show the world around you how righteous or how, what's the better word, how righteous. How he's using you. Yeah, neither are you guilty nor are you lacking.
You're not guilty for something you've done, neither are you lacking something that will be. met through this suffering It's got nothing to do with those two things. This is just God. Using you To brag on you. It flips what we're used to.
It flips the script because the most common objection to Christianity is: I can't believe in a God who allows bad things to happen to good people, which assumes the reality of like good things happen to good people, bad things happen to bad people. You do bad, you get punished, you do good, you get rewarded. But that's not the way that. God works. And what do you do when your reaction is like Job, where you're like, I'd rather you not brag on me?
My life was pretty good. I wish you'd just brag on that. Yeah. And when we say that, we are very naive when it comes to the spiritual realm, the principalities, the powers, the rulers of the darkness. Uh b because that's where the battle is taking place.
And one day that battle is going to be over. God's going to win that battle. He's already won, but he's going to completely throw. The enemy and all those who follow him into the lake of fire. We don't have to worry about that in the future.
But right now, There is that realm Where God Does he hold his people up as trophies to say, Look at him, look at her. Yes, you can take everything away. Yes, the thing that he or she treasures the most, if it's gone away, he will still serve me. She will still be loyal to me. There you go.
And Satan says, Okay, well. If you say it that way, then maybe I'll try. Yes, you can, but you cannot do this.
Okay.
Well, since you didn't let me do that. Yeah, it's not really a real test.
Okay, you can do that, just can't kill them.
So this is how God Um it's not really testing us. Here, he is simply bragging on us. That's right. That's right. So.
For a trauma victim. That is very helpful when they are vindicated, when they are acquitted, when they are told that.
Now, if somebody is a lost person. What they need to do is get saved. But to a same person who is going through some trauma, what can the trauma be? The trauma can be divorce. The trauma can be cancer.
that trauma can be financial loss. That trauma can be Breakdown of some relationship, breakdown of something.
Something can be very traumatic. And that person in the heart of hearts knows it's not because of any sin they've committed. And that's one thing we have to. Dispense. As soon as possible, I am not being punished because Satan will use that against us.
Okay, that's done. Is God teaching me a lesson? Like C.S. Lewis would say, you know, maybe God is using the bullhorn. To really get your attention.
Okay, that can be true. I'm not saying it's not true, it can be. But most of the time in a believer's life, that's not what's happening. It's not a teaching moment. Right.
Oh, you got cancer.
Now you're going to learn about the Faithfulness of God, yeah. In this one or two years you've got left, I'm going to teach you a good lesson. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you're going through a divorce.
Now you're going to know the one who doesn't leave you. Isn't that great? Like, yeah, I guess it's really great. Yeah, that's just. Swell.
It's a shallow understanding. When we really look at it, there's no depth to it. There's no room for God to really reveal himself to us in a way that is profound, both in suffering and out of suffering.
Well, you go for, I think Christians, especially, myself included, go for the shallow fruit. I've led devotionals on our worship team saying that exact thing. Like, listen, guys, the sufferings that we go through in life are not just things to grit our teeth. God's going to teach us something. God's going to use this in some way to come together for good.
And like you said, yeah, it can be true, but it's not the whole truth and it doesn't go very deep into the character. Yeah, most of the time, that's not happening. What is happening is that. God is using us as exhibit A to demonstrate The power of redemption. the power of a changed life, That they serve and love Jesus Christ, not because of what He does for them, it's because of what has been done.
They love him because of who he is. That's right. And so Justice. The trauma victim, especially I'm talking about a believing person. Uh Desires for God to say, you're good, you're good.
No. No, I'm not punishing you. Definitely not. Neither am I trying to get your attention You're good. You doing right.
But here's the sad part: the enemy will constantly tell us: no, you're not, no, you're not, don't listen to that voice, and you have to bring that thought. Into captivity to the obedience of Christ and say, No, I'm listening to Jesus. I'm not a bad person. I haven't done evil. I'm not paying for it.
Yeah. I'm not like like missing the lesson here. Right. No. Everything is okay.
I have to be Uh what I need is for God to say. You're good. That's justice. As a Human being, we are made in the image of God. God is a God of justice, God is a God of righteousness, hence we are.
Also. People who desire justice.
So when something bad happens, whether it's in our lives, someone's life, We want the record to be Set straight. Yeah. We want the scales of justice to be equalized.
So what is happening in Job's life?
Well, throughout the book of Job, he uses that the legal terminology. The Forensic Terminology. To emphasize that point. I am simply needing. God to set the record straight.
'Cause y'all I mean, when you truly understand that you realize how frustrating his friends were. Yeah, it's funny because you read Job and from the outside perspective, you kind of agree with them, especially when they start bringing in God. And they're like, how can a man be righteous before God? How can you be blameless? You're a sinner.
You're born into sin. And you listen to all of these different sermons and all of these different online pastors who talk like that. And you're like, yeah, that sounds right. But then you start studying Job itself and you're like, wait a minute. Why am I suddenly anti-Job?
You know, it's funny because then you're like, I know the point of the story is that the friends aren't right.
So I have to. Job, I think, and maybe tell me what you think on this. Job kind of forces you to either dig deeper or abandon the book. I think that's a great way to say that. Yeah, yeah, I would say that.
Because it's like, it's like, okay, I don't make sense of this. I'm going to go back to James. I'm going to go back to the Gospels. But the more we study, the more we see that Job is a template for us. He's a template for us to walk through suffering and understand that there is something more going on than what immediately meets the eye and even what popular voices and friends might propose to us.
Michelle Keener calls such people who stand around while you're suffering as passive bystanders. Oh, my goodness. They're watching the show. Yeah. And they sure have a A little something to add to the conversation, like, which is a very, you know, tier one.
Oh, you must have done something bad.
Nowadays, people don't just say that. I mean, they may think it. But They don't say that. Yeah. I hope, hope not.
Yeah, I've seen people definitely. When I when I went to New York, I saw, I won't get into the details, but I saw a fight breakout and I was like, hey, Ellie, let's go the other way. But there were so many people just on their phones. Nobody's helping this guy getting jumped in the middle of the street. And nobody's saying, hey, call not you, call 911, get the police.
They're just a crowd of people. This guy's getting jumped in the street. A crowd of people just on their phones. And I'm talking about like a legit crowd. And I'm like, all these people just standing by doing nothing.
Yeah. And I know exactly what you're talking about. This bystander effect is very, very real. When the friends start out with the lowest hanging fruit, clearly you did something wrong. Yeah.
You did something to deserve this. And we may not say it that way, but we do talk about karma, which is a misunderstanding of karma. But that's what we say. It's like, karma, man, karma is terrible, whatever. Yeah.
So. That's what s passive bystanders do. And they're telling Joe, be quiet, just take the guilt, stop trying to set the record straight. You are messing with the cosmic order. It really bothers the friends because.
To say That you are a good person going through this. Then who's to be blamed? The friends didn't cause this.
So the implication is someone has to be to blame. More than likely, God. Yeah. And we cannot do that.
So it's got to be Job. Job, just take the blame. Yeah. They're like, Job, you are so bad at taking L's, man. Seriously.
It sounds a lot like, I mean, the several popular voices, even today. Of, you know, you are sinful, you are bad, you are broken, you are messed up, and the guilt and the focus is all on what you've done wrong.
So they, like you said, Dr. Shaw, they might not say it outright, but the undergirding truth is there. If you're suffering, it's because you've done something wrong. It's payment for your sins. Yeah, but you know what, though?
Something I was just thinking about, Dr. Shaw, tell me what you think about this. It's funny because the friends are getting frustrated. And even sometimes as a reader, you get frustrated with Job because he just won't take the L. And so we think of it as like, you're not humble.
And I think what we've done in our minds is we have almost rewarded passivity. Like, okay, fine, I'll take it. I'll take the blame. I'll. I'll lower myself.
And you're like, okay, now that's a good guy. But really, it's not. Rewarding humility is just rewarding passivity. I'm not going to stand up to this. I'm not going to defend myself.
Whatever. You win, I lose. Self-deprecation doesn't automatically equal being good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that might have something to do with it.
So. Job, even in a sentence, is thinking maybe God is a passive bystander because I'm going through all this, but you're not doing anything. You're not helping me. And if you want to set the record straight, please do it. Please do it because these guys are telling me.
That I'm the cause of my misery, please set the record straight. And there's no answer.
So he feels like even God is a passive bystander. And, um, Uh You know, in discussing this issue, Michelle Keener points out that sometimes there is even victim shaming that can happen. Even among Christians.
So sometimes it it comes in the form of quoting from Romans 8:28. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose, which means this. You need to believe, man, that all this is going to work together for your good. Yeah. So You're upset right now.
Yeah. when you should not be upset. You should be working towards gratefulness. That's not good either. God's got a plan and you got to deal with it.
And look, you just, if you're not okay with it, you just got to wait. You just got to be patient. It's going to happen on God's time. You got to get okay with it. Yeah, you got to get okay with it because it's going to happen on God's time and not yours.
That's the one thing that Christians love to say, even when you're in the middle of suffering, they're like, hey, it's not about you.
Something so heart-wrenching. And I mean, someone's world has just been shattered. You know, that God works all things together for good. And it's funny because. I didn't say that right then.
Yeah, well, it's funny because I think a lot of Christians, even like before this, myself included, think that that's the thing to say because it's the easy thing. It's the easy verse to go to, and we don't realize the implication. Because we we think that, okay, well if they take that quote unquote the wrong way. And get hurt by it, you just got hurt by the word of God. Can't do that.
Yeah. And the thing is, that verse is precious. That verse is true. It's the inerrant, inspired word of God. Everything is right about it.
It's just not something that we should throw in someone's face. Use it for yourself. Yeah. Right. But don't throw it in someone's face.
That's right. Because that's called victim shaming. Because if they don't believe at that moment that all things are working together for good, then now you have added more burden upon them. Yeah. Now you've added more guilt on them because.
You're not seeing how God is working all things together for good. How ungrateful can you be? Not good. Neither is it good, Ephesians 4:31, 32, which says, Let all bitterness. Rat anger, clamour, and evil speaking be put away from you with all malice?
and be kind to one another. tenderhearted, forgiving one another even as God in Christ forgave you. I understand you're going through something hard, but all this complaining ain't gonna help. You need to forgive and forget. That's the last thing you want to hear sometimes.
My dad thought that was the wisest thing he ever said. Hey, son. Ain't no use complaining. Don't nobody want to hear it. Thank you, Dan.
Thank you, man. Yeah. You know, telling a victim Not to be bitter. Is not the best thing because there are times, not that Job ever got to that place, where there is revenge feelings. Mm-hmm.
Because you've been through something terrible and you know the person and you start thinking.
Sometimes you even say it. Man, I hope this happens to you, and then you'll know. Whoa, wait, what do you mean? Come again. What they're saying is.
I want you to go through this.
Now in a good godly Christ honoring spirit-filled moment. They probably won't say that, but right now they're feeling. Terrible. Yeah. It was very painful.
What you did is very painful.
So they feel like I want you to suffer like I'm suffering. Yeah. That's revenge feeling. When people go through that and they exemplify that behavior, and if you come along and say, you know, you need to forgive. Mm-hmm.
That doesn't help matters. That's right. Yeah. That's right. You're 100% right.
Just cannot do it like that. I don't know if this is a good illustration, but I think of it like. Ingredients in a meal, right? When you put the ingredients in is actually very, very crucial. You can't just be like, well, the ingredients are good.
Like, if I'm making like spaghetti or something and I've got the noodles boiling in a pot and I just take the cheese and throw it in that water, it's like, why would you do that? The cheese, it's good. It's good to have it on there. Yeah, it's supposed to go in there. Yeah, it is, but you have to know when the time to put that on.
And I think both, maybe, Dr. Shad, both of these verses are good. Like you said, they're inspired, they're true. But when you use them is critical to their effectiveness. Right.
Yeah. So. What happens when there is no apology? You will have to rest on the grace of God. Because sometimes people may not apologize to you and say, I'm sorry for saying that you caused this.
or you brought this upon yourself. Or you should forgive and forget. Or you should not be bitter, or you should believe that God is working all things together for good. And people do that, or they hurt you in some ways, but they've never come to you and said, I'm sorry, I'm the source of your trauma. They never apologize or never truly apologize.
You know, we also say that truly apologize because people can say, I'm sorry, but they don't really mean it. Yeah, I really am sorry that you felt that way. I'm sorry that that elicited never on my heart. Yeah. Like, yeah, I never meant to.
I don't really care that you heal. I just care that you know what my intentions were. Anyone ever hit you with, I'm sorry you felt that way? Oh, yes. Yeah.
Oh, I'm sorry you felt that way. I'm sorry that was your perception. There's somebody listening right now who's like, what's wrong with that? I say that all the time. Don't.
Don't do that, no more. Don't do that. But but I imagine there are many people listening who are in that situation where they feel like they need an apology and it's just not happening. And it looks like it will probably never happen. That passive bystander will not do it.
Sometimes they may even walk away from you. Michelle Keener said that on an Instagram post. She said, Some people would rather walk away from you. Lose you Then face the pain they caused. Wow.
I mean, that's a great post. Yeah, I wish. I'm wondering if I could actually steal that and put it on my Instagram. That's a tough truth, too. I mean, you would think that people would value a relationship more, but the fact is, they're just I'll walk away from you.
And never talk to you again. Then come and say, Hey, I'm sorry 'cause I really hurt you. Yeah. What do you do with people like that? I mean, I guess all you can do is let them go.
You have to rest in the grace of God. You have to look to God. You have to lean upon God. You have to just let God heal you and then use you. To help other people.
Other than that, nothing can be done. You cannot bring those people back and force them on, say, gunpoint to say, tell me you're sorry for what you did to me. I mean, and they may even do it. Is that really sincere? Probably not.
Yeah. For our listening audience, can you walk us through what that looks like practically? How does someone begin the process of daily choosing to rest on God and to depend on His grace?
Well, I would say. you know, if you are that person Who is that victim? and somebody in your life has not truly apologized to you or It's not going to apologize to you. Lean on God's grace. In other words, Just know that daily you will have to fight the thoughts in your mind.
The thoughts that kind of well up in your in your heart, anger. bitterness. Heart pain Sometimes people even have thoughts not to like fight you now of just walking away. Don't give in to those thoughts, don't give into those feelings. Instead of Ask God to help you.
You know, the Bible talks about that: take every thought captive and bring it to the obedience of Christ. Means take that thought. The thought of anger, bitterness. Self-deprecation, insecurity. Doubt and just put it under the feet.
Of Jesus of Nazareth. Say, it does not belong in my life. I'm not going to entertain it. Maybe I'm entitled to feel that way. Maybe the world tells me I need to feel that way, but I refuse to wallow in that evil thought.
I'm giving it to you. And instead, Lord, I want you to work in that person's life. I want you to bless them, I want you to guide them. I want you to use my story to touch other people. I Submit to you.
And I need you. I need you to fill my heart. with love and truth and grace and wisdom and awareness. What you're doing in this world. I don't want to just allow the enemy to take that thought, take that emotion.
And wreak havoc in my life. And the lives of people around me. I don't want to go down that road.
Someone's listening to this and they're saying, listen, I'm on board with most of that prayer. I'm on board. I'm going to ask God to heal me and to use me and to help me get rid of all that anxiety that I'm holding on to. But this person, I can't pray for them. I can't, I can't, especially, I can't pray for God's guidance and blessing on them.
Anytime I try, it tastes like ash in my mouth. What do you say to those people? Like, I've done it before. I've shared with you guys how a gentleman helped me tremendously. He asked me to pray for a person who had hurt me and said, Pray for 21 days.
Three weeks. He said, first it'll be very hard to do. Second, it'll be still hard. Third, fourth day, you may be able to mouth that. prayer but probably not even mention that person's name.
And then The next week you're able to even say that person's name. And then the week after that. You're able to pray for them as if you're praying for your best friend. And before you know it, you have been set free. When you truly pray for that person, And pray for God's blessing, not just spiritually, but also.
physically and Financially, you're praying for God's blessing upon that person. That's the way to be set free. But I will also add to that We have to remember that we have wronged God. In the relationship that you and I have with God, guess who the victim is? God.
God, Jesus.
Now, don't misunderstand. He is not a victim like we are victims, like helpless people in the hands of God. No. Here victim means We put Jesus on the cross. Isn't that what Peter says in the book of Acts?
You took him with lawless hands and crucified the Prince of Life.
So Just think about it. When you're trying to judge someone for What they did to you, and how they victimized you, and how they traumatized you. Just think about the trauma. That we caused Jesus. Two thousand years ago when he hung on the cross.
It was because we put him there. He said, but I wasn't there. Spiritually speaking, every single human being was there. That's right. crucifying Jesus Christ because we were in Adam.
And so all of us were there. We crucified him. We mocked him. We spit upon him. We put the crown of thorns on his head.
We pulled out his beard. We lashed him. We did those things to him.
So we are. Not only are we guilty because we have a sin nature, but we're also guilty because we crucified Jesus. Right. Yeah. That's true.
So what could God do to us? I mean, completely destroy us, but he doesn't. Those who call upon him, he saves us through that very death, which becomes. The sacrifice for our sins. Amen.
The same death becomes That's right. That's so profound when you stop to think about it, especially if you're going through a season of suffering, because the temptation in suffering is to have the focus on you. Yeah, of course. I'm struggling with this. I'm dealing with this.
I'm having a hard time. But this puts the focus back on God and who he is. And ultimately, I think we forget sometimes what Jesus went through for us. We forget the trauma that Christ endured. We think, yeah, he suffered, but he was God.
So, I mean, in the back of our minds, it didn't really count. But it absolutely, I mean, he was human just like we are, not just like we're human, but he was human. He possessed a physical body.
So all the suffering was very real. All the physical pain was very real. All the mocking, all the brutalizing of him was very real. And I love ending on that note because, you know, the main goal of this show is to help make Christ visible in your life. That's why this church exists.
That's why Dr. Shah's ministry exists. That's why this show exists. It's because Jesus, in so many of our minds, is this vague figure, this mythological character. Who came down, and we know the story.
We're familiar with the story, but I don't really know the person. You know, we want to make Christ visible to you. And so, if you're suffering, just know that this episode is aimed at you. We're talking directly to you. All of these things, you should go back and listen to all of these episodes that we've done on the book of Job.
Dr. Shah's sermons here lately have been on the book of Job. We'll link those in the description. But just know that this episode is for you. It's not something that you can just take a couple of helpful tips and try to make it just through today, although you may be at that point in your suffering.
But just know this is aimed at you, this is for you, and God is bringing it to you for a reason. Yeah, that's right. Guys, make sure you join us next time. Same time, same place. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today show.
Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show anywhere you can find podcasting content. And today's your first time listening to the show, and we're glad that you're here praying for you in your moments of suffering. And just know that God is at work, He's doing something bigger than you can even imagine. Look to Him and lean on Him.
That's right. You can always support us financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give. That's right. Next week, oh no, week after next, we're going to be in Nashville, Tennessee, NRB 2026 through the 17th through the 20th of February. Dr.
Shah is going to be there. I'm going to be there. Ryan's going to be there.
Some of the other guys from our team are going to be there. We want to meet you. We want to hear about your ministry. We want to do some shows on the convention floor. Dr.
Shah is going to be part of the Truth Network, yeah, Truth Network booth, and also the Pray.com booth.
So we want to be able to meet you guys also. Big, big, big apologetics conference is happening here in Henderson, North Carolina at Clearview Church, March 28th, talking about the Byzantine text. A lot of people are. Signing up for this thing.
So, we want to make sure that you have your tickets. The link is in the description, and you can get 20% off at checkout by following that link and entering promo code today, T-O-D-A-Y. That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you next time on Clearby Today.
