The Christian life is not just lived in outlines and bullet points, it's lived in tension. Beauty, lament, and hope. There's moments when doctrine gives us structure and poetry gives us the language. All that and more coming up today on the Plea Read Today Show. Uh You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr.
Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. What a great week we've had here on the Clear View Today Show. We're so glad you've joined us for all these conversations.
We got one more before the weekend, but we want to welcome our host, Dr. Abadan Shah. For those of you guys who are listening for the very first time, Dr. Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr.
Shah, we are talking today about poetry. You know, it's a major, major genre in the Bible, and yet it's something that a lot of us overlook in our lives. Yeah, yeah. It's, you know, we've been studying the book of Job, and between chapter two and three, Something happens to Job.
So we discussed in yesterday's show how Juul 1 and 2 is prose. Job 42 is prose, but Job 3 through 41 is poetry. And often scholars have said, you know, must be. Different writers That wrote different parts of Job's life.
Some wrote it as prose, some wrote it as poetry, and then some editor or editors came together and just kind of slapped it together. And now we have the book of Job. Right. Nothing could be further from the truth. Right.
Anything to just undermine the Bible, we'll just stick it out there. Yeah, I mean, just take the time to at least investigate to make sure that's what's happening. But they just kind of have, you know, assumed that this is just editorial work. And by saying that, they're undermining the historicity. The authority of the word of God, right?
We've said this before on the show, Dr. Sean. I think it's a good reminder for all of us that the people who wrote scripture and the people who compiled the books of the Bible were not some backwards society that were confused by like a rock and just kind of like hitting things together and hoping for the best. No, these were very smart, brilliant men and women who authored these pages and. Assembled what we know today as scripture.
And God oversaw and ordained the entire process. Of course, it's God breathed. Right. So this isn't just some sort of like haphazard, we're going to, you know, this is about Job, this is about Job, and we're just going to slam them together and hope for the best. One of the things I think that's one of the things that we've said out here on the show a lot is that one of the biggest hubris of today's Age and today's civilization is: we think we're smarter than the ancient people.
We think we're so much smarter and so much more advanced than the people who came before us. And even more, the Bible is not just a product of smart people who lived in the ancient past, it's the Word of God. That's right. It's God's manual for life, it's God's blueprint on how to live life in a sinful world.
So what we've seen here is how from chapter two to chapter three, there's a radical shift. From blessed be the name of the Lord. Or are we not going to accept Adversity from God? Do we just accept only good? Come on, we need to accept both from God.
to all of a sudden Cursed is the day that I was born. Right. Yeah. Big shift there. Yeah.
Before we jump into that conversation, I do want to try something that we used to do on the show. This was kind of a fun game that we used to do. I don't want to bring it back. Since we're talking about poetry, Dr. Sha, I'm going to give you three haikus.
Now, now, two of them are fake. And when I say fake, I mean they're like Chat GPT. Chat GPT wrote two haikus. And then one of them is a very real and famous haiku. Not a Japanese person writing this.
No, no, no. AI. Two of them are AI. One of them is real. I'm going to post to you two gentlemen and to the listeners.
See if you can guess which one it is. It kind of stinks because if we, it's like there are Japanese poets out there who like put their all into making these and AI just goes just like that. There you go. All right, let's see. Here's the first one.
Bees nudge the flowers. babies peeped out of the nest one fine crisp morning.
Okay, here's the second one. Quiet days grow loud. Thoughts drift where answers fall short stillness learns to wait.
Alright, here's the third one. Clouds pass without haste What feels heavy now will move. Morning comes unseen. Good grief. I would say the first two are fake.
So I think it's uh I think it's fake real fake.
So Okay, so Dr. Sha, you're saying the first two are fake. You are half right. The second one is fake. Quiet days grow loud.
Thoughts drift where answers fall short, stillness learns to wait. That's AI. That's fake. Oh, the third one is fake? Third one is also fake.
Yeah. The first one is correct. The first one? That's what I was like: because what does it mean babies peeped out of the nest? I was like, that's that's that's um That's a Japanese AI.
That might not be Channel. I'm going to put it in Google and see who the author is. A Morning Haiku Nature's Poem for Kids.
Okay. It's a kid's poem. I guess so, yeah. I was expecting something more philosophical. That's what I thought, too.
I thought it was a little simple.
Now, this doesn't seem like a Japanese name. Arun Bahadur. Bahadur Gurong. Oh, that's an Indian name. Yeah.
Arun. Arun. Bahadur. Bahadur. Gurung Gurung, I don't know what that last name.
I'm not familiar with that, but the first two are Indian names.
Well, he wrote that. He wrote that. That's not really.
Well, I can't say. I mean, he may have lived in Japan all his life. I don't know. It is a haiku based on syllables. And that's as far as we'll grant it.
Yeah, yeah. I want to Google the guy just to see.
Okay, okay, I see the guy. He's he's he's a good looking dude. Yeah. Yeah. So haikus not present in the book of Job.
No, but poetry is. Absolutely. Poetry is. And it's not only present, but it is the majority of the book of Job. Chapters 3 through 41.
The genre shifts from prose to poetry, and then eventually it goes back to. Prose again.
So, why is that happening? And again, I want to quote from Michelle Keener. She says: Trauma represents an interruption in the flow of the survivor's story. And I think we read that the last time. It cannot be experienced in a linear, logical way, and it cannot be forgotten.
Thus, the trauma remains on the to-do list, waiting to be addressed, always open. The past event eventually intrudes on the present, acting essentially as a rupture in the chronology of the survivor's life. The missed encounter of the traumatic event becomes a lingering wound dragging the past where the trauma occurred into the present Interrupting the chronology of the survivor's life story and creating a crisis of temporality. Past and present blur. This rupture In a survivor's life story, it gives the traumatic event and outside of time.
Out of reach quality that is noticeably out of place. All that to say, We're talking about cognitive dissonance. It's a Kind of a psychological term. Where One's experience crashes into one's Belief or against one's belief. Right.
The thing, the worldview that you held. For good or for bad, is now completely contradictory to what you're experiencing in your life. Yeah, and it's not just worldview, it's just your. Conception of how life will be. Gotcha.
So you look at your health and you say, Man, I'm a healthy person. Oh. Uh now there's a c cancer diagnosis. Your marriage, you think it's a good marriage. I thought we're happy.
I thought he was happy. I thought she was happy. all of a sudden there is an affair. You feel like you can make plans. for years and years and great things going to come.
All of a sudden you're standing at a A funeral service. Bearing your loved one. Your children, you have certain expectations, and you feel like, man, that's going to be their life, it's going to be great. Then there is life goes a whole different way. Yeah.
You know, job, finances, home. I mean, I can go on and on. You have a certain belief system of how life will be, and then experience. crashes against it. All of a sudden, you are now faced with something you've never faced before.
How do you put it in words? Yeah. So this is where prose fails. And only poetry can help. I think you just put into words what most of our listening and viewing audience.
Is experiencing or has experienced in the not so distant past where the world around you and the events that are happening don't line up with. Your mental landscape and how you think things ought to go. And this isn't the life that I saw for myself. And I've got to reconcile that somehow. And there's just this tumult, this chaos of trying to.
Trying to figure out which way is north. That's what's happening in the book of Job. I mean, I get passionate about this because we think the Bible is an outdated book. We think the Bible is like any other so-called quote-unquote holy book of other people. The Bible is in a k is is is in a a Category by itself.
It does not. The other books cannot. even come close. They're not even the same universe. I've read these other books.
And when you read them, and then you read the Bible. And you realize, oh my word I i I'm I'm reading On one hand, something that even a child can understand. On the other hand, even a nuclear scientist cannot figure out. It's so complex. When I read other holy books, Uh it's it's like you gave A child Oh, forget a child.
You gave a dog a pin and he and he scribbled it. I mean, I hate to say that. Yeah. There's no comparison. The depth.
The power The continuing understanding of this Wondrous word of God. I mean, it just never ends. I mean, even now, people are beginning to understand the book of Job. In this poetry way that we didn't know before, but beginning to understand. I mean, no one has cracked it yet, no one has completely sorted it out yet.
And look at where we are from the time that Joe was written. Right. Yeah. This is 2025. Yeah.
That's about almost, I would say. uh four thousand years because I would say Joe was probably nineteen hundred B C Maybe? Maybe two thousand BC? I don't know. But if it's 1900, 2,000, then from us it's about 4,000 years.
So, can you walk us through what. What that looks like in our practical lives. Because I think a lot of our listeners may be listening to this and saying, okay, so I'm going to go through something. Really bad, and then I'm gonna start reading poetry, reciting Shakespeare. Like, do you wanna kind of explain what it is you mean?
Yeah. So let's go back to what is poetry. What does poetry do, especially with regards to trauma victims? And we all have faced some kind of trauma, right? Maybe my trauma may not be yours, yours might not be mine, but what I have struggled, or what you're struggling, or the burden you're carrying, is heavy for you.
Right. And my burden is heavy for me. June Francis Dickey, she um Talks about The four things Regarding poetry, And trauma victims. Number one, poetry is non-linear and does not require narrative coherence, it's non-linear. Prose is linear.
This happened and then this happened and this happened poetry does not follow that Chronological sequence. Yeah, you're right. Secondly, according to June Francis Dickey, poetry is image-based. It's not facts-based, it's image-based. Thirdly, the form and rhythm of poetry and intentional interruptions in each create tension and space for transformation.
That's why there is that cadence there. Or, like we talked about the haiku poetry, there is those syllables, they may not rhyme, but there's a you know syllables that what is it, seven, five, seven? Five, seven, five, five. Five, seven, five. Right, so there is that cadence there, yeah.
But, but that brings in that uh tension and space that is necessary for transformation. And then lastly, the metanomic quality of poetry. The metanomic quality we're talking about where one word represents an idea. Metonomic quality of poetry allows one word to represent the entirety of an experience.
So when we're facing not just Pain? But also When we're facing some level of excitement or Feeling that is overwhelming. It may be love. Right, it may be love, it may be anger. Or it may be sadness.
Sadness we know Some better nymphs would be tears. Yeah, like someone's like, hey, how you been doing recently? A lot of tears. A lot of tears. What does that mean?
That means there's a lot of sadness going on. And yes, there may be actual physical tears, but it just simply represents sadness. But I see what you're saying when it's image-based. Like you're putting something tangible, a tear, an actual physical drop of water to encapsulate this emotion. Right.
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's interesting that you say that because I remember our discussion with Nicole on trauma. And trauma is... processed and stored in the image center of your brain. It's not where words are.
It's where images are.
So a lot of times when you try to get people to talk about trauma, they've got to, like we're saying now, process it. They've got to put it into words because it's not natively in a word part of your brain. Absolutely. It's an image part of your brain. Great point.
Think about words like a broken heart. What does that broken heart represent? It means that you got hurt. I mean hearts A piece of wood or cardboard that can be cracked.
So, what we're saying is because of this pain, I'm broken inside. Right. And so that's what we mean, like when because anybody going through trauma has probably said that. I'm brokenhearted. I just feel like my heart is completely broken.
You are speaking poetically. Right. You're not just saying, I'm extremely upset that this happened. That's not going to cut. You know what I mean?
And even that sense becomes a poetry. What do you really feel? Yeah. What is really happening?
Well, they did this to me. And so I am I just feel betrayed. Again, you're bringing in poetry. What does betrayal represent? Yeah, true.
But if you could go very precise, it's like we took a vow before God and man, and then that person stepped out of the vows and had an affair, and so the vows have been broken. No, you don't say he betrayed me, he betrayed everything we stood for. Yeah, or, well, yeah, you didn't stand anywhere. I mean, whatever. Yeah.
Or, man, this feels like a bad dream. Yeah. It's a nightmare right now. Yeah, yeah, that's not literally a nightmare. You're not living, you're not walking through a dream state, you are in the waking world.
Yeah, it's a metaphor, though. Yeah, it's poetry. Anytime we enter into that feelings realm where things are abstract and things are nebulous, we've got to give them concrete terms. But that's where that's where poetry comes in. It's kind of funny how the Bible does this because we do that.
That's such a part of our vocabulary that we don't even realize that we're speaking poetically. You know what I'm saying? And it's funny to like read something in the Bible and how deeply poetic it is. And we go, man, that's out of touch. But we don't realize we're doing a very simplified version of that all the time.
Right. Yeah. Now, now there's bad poetry. Yeah, true. I mean, that's the cuss words.
Yeah. Or bad poetry. You know, when somebody uses the word which I don't like, which is GD, you know, what they're saying is we want God to condemn this to hell. Yeah. Which is poetry.
This is so it is poetry, but very bad words. Very vulgar poetry, yeah. Very vulgar poetry. And there are others too out there, which is which is not even worth bringing up here. Yeah.
Instead of doing that, maybe read the Bible more. Right. And I and I like the way that you said you mentioned this during your sermon last weekend: is that you're you are it is a poetic way of speaking because it's the only thing that you have to throw at this problem. You know, you're you're so angry or you're so betrayed or bitter that you just take the raw have the intention or the time to describe word for word.
So you just go cuss at it. Yeah, throw at it. Yeah, that's exactly right.
So where did we see that in Job?
Well, we see it right here because when you go down here in Job chapter one and starting in verse chapter three, starting in verse three, it says, may the day perish. On which I was born.
So in chapter 3, when Job finally speaks, it's not the poised Job, the one who is like, Blessed be the name of the Lord. The Lord gives, takes away. Shall we only accept good, not adverse? No. He's like, May the day perish on which I was born.
And the night in which I was, it was said, a male child is conceived. He's going in. Yeah, why so deep? Why can't you just say You know, I want to die. I wish I was dead.
Because There's so many emotions in him.
So many emotions in him that he is. He is. He is venting. I mean, he cannot just repeat the same thing. Right.
I wish I could die, which I could die. No, he's venting, but he's venting in all manner of ways. Yeah. Because he is so pent up. With hurt and anger.
I imagine him just fists clenched, pounding the ground, tears streaming down his face. His voice is hoarse. He's just, I mean, almost like wild, crying out. His eyes are darting around. He can't, he doesn't look like a man about his right mind.
No. But he's making poetry, though. Oh, yeah. And we know. I mean, we say it all the time that that stuff has to get out.
You know what I mean? Yeah. It's got to get out in some way. And I love that the Bible shows that he gets it out. It's such raw, real, negative emotions.
And yet it says he still didn't sin. None of this is this sin. And I think that's a lot of times where, like, we think that to be negative is just bad. We can't do that. We have to just say, all right, God, blessed be the name of the Lord.
I trust you. And I, but you smile on. Yeah, just, yeah, just paste this big fake smile on and power through it. But Job is like, I'm hurting, and I'm going to let everybody around me know. And he's not just going to scream or punch the wall or cuss people out.
He is describing in poetic form what he is feeling. And what is he feeling? Number one, he wishes he had not been born. The pain is so bad he wishes he did not Even come into this world to be a baby, grow up into a boy, into a young man, marry, have this conversation. Career of becoming a king and having a family with children and possessions and the great man reputation.
If I hadn't been born, none of this would be there because today I am hurting so bad. And not because I lost stuff. But because I've lost my family. And there's a big difference between Job saying that and like teenagers saying that because you don't let them go to, you know, teenagers always love to put that out. I wish I was never born.
You're ruining my life. Hey, you won't. You won't let me go to this concert. Dad. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, that's that. And that's why when people today, you know, Gen Z's say that and late millennials say that, it's like, man, I'm going through some trauma. Are you sure? Are you really?
Are you sure you're really? Yeah, you got your cell phone taken away. You're okay? Yeah, because you were. Not doing your homework and skipping school, and now you're going through trauma?
No, no, no. And just you want to have some some publicity and and be liked by people so you're making up stuff and you call that trauma?
So going back to uh Job's wishes that he had not been born, or wish that he had not been born, he goes on to say, May that day be darkness, may God above not seek it, nor the light shine upon it. May darkness and the shadow of death claim it. May a cloud settle on it, may the blackness of the day terrify it. As for that night, may darkness seize it. May it not rejoice among the days of the year may it not come into the number of the months.
Oh may that night be bare, and may no joyful shout come into it may those curse it who curse the day, those who are ready to arouse Leviathan What are they gonna do? Arouse Leviathan. May those who curse It cursed the day. Those who are ready to arouse Leviathan means this horrible dinosaur when he's awakened. He wreaks havoc everywhere.
And so Job is now saying maybe they can curse it and maybe the dinosaur can come eat up that day or something. You go feed your birthday to a dinosaur or something? Unleash it.
Something of that sort. I know what you're saying. And that's why later on, God says, who made the Leviathan? Yeah. This is not all random.
That's why, who was that guy who was saying, I forgot now. The hippopotamus thing. Yeah. I can't remember his name. Is it Shaw?
George Bernard Shaw. Bernard Shaw said that. It's like, you know, I'm going through a problem. How does it help me that who made a hippopotamus? George Bernard Shaw, if you had read the Bible.
and understood what we're talking about today. You would have said that, would you? George? Right. Get it together.
Hey, George. Hey, George, bad form, bro. Don't do that no. Don't do that. Don't do that.
So. He is upset and he even brings up the dinosaur. Why would you bring up a dinosaur? Right now, I'm angry. Yeah, and I wish a dinosaur powerful and just pound my day into oblivion.
I wanted to be like that scene in Jurassic Park where the T-Rex comes down on that guy in the port-a-potty and just like tossing him around. That's my birthday. That's what I want to do. That's what I want. If you could show Job that scene from Jurassic Park, he's like, that's what I wanted.
That's what I had in my mind. I wish I was that guy. But I couldn't describe it. All I could say was: may those who curse it who curse the day, those who are ready to arouse the violence. The whole time.
You know that scene I'm talking about where the portal is. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Job is like, I wish I was him. Yeah.
That actually looks kind of good right now. Oh, my word. That's crazy. And then um He said, May the stars of his morning be dark. May it look for light but have none.
And not seeing the dawning of the day, because it did not shut up the doors of my mother's womb. That's that's dark.
Sorrow from my eyes. That is really dark, but that's kind of beautiful. Like, that actually kind of struck me. Like, may the stars of its morning be dark. May it look for light but have none.
It's like. It's a I say this carefully, it's beautifully spiteful. Yeah what I mean by that? Not spiteful, like like sinful, but it is um I don't know. It's got a it's got a it's gotta Bite to it that I really like.
Job's words here are almost electric. I mean, they're bristling with emotion. Like, I hope you look for happiness and can't find it. Yeah. Golly, man, this dude is mad.
This dude is mad. I hope the day of my birth drowns in darkness. Yeah, there are different definitions for poetry. I want to give you a couple of these because they're very powerful.
So, William Wordsworth described poetry as: poetry is a spontaneous outflow of powerful things. It takes its origin from Origins from emotion recollected in tranquility. I mean, this is what poetry is. Spontaneous outflow of powerful feelings. Christopher Fry said poetry is a language in which man explores his own amazement, or a woman explores her own amazement.
Robert Frost, a poem begins with a lump in the throat. A homesickness or a love sickness, it is a reaching out toward expression. An effort to find fulfilment. A complete poem is one where the emotion has found its thought and the thought has found the words. Wow.
That's what's happening here. Beautiful. Yeah. These are, I love these. I love all of these.
I mean, there are a lot of great definitions. Lord Byron said poetry, by the way, Lord Byron was not a modicum of great character. Not a great. But he said. He said, poetry is a lava of the imagination whose eruption prevents an earthquake.
Wow. That's pretty good. Yeah. So, unless you want to have an earthquake. Let poetry flow.
The lava's got to erupt every now and then. It's got to erupt. Novalis said, who was a German poet, he said, poetry heals the wounds inflicted by reason. Wow. Wow.
Yeah, there's that there's that beautiful tension again. Yeah. I think a lot of people out there have been in situations where they've come to that point in their life. What encouragement would you give someone if they're listening right now and they're like, you know what? That actually sounds.
Like me. Yeah, I mean, Job goes on and says he wishes he would die. And then he ends in Job chapter 3 by saying, from my chapter, chapter 3, verse 24, for my sighing comes before I eat, and my groanings pour out like water. For the thing I greatly feared has come upon me, and what I dreaded has happened to me. Talking about his children, I would say, died.
For I am not at ease, nor am I quiet. I have no rest. For trouble comes. Wow. Yeah.
If you are that person who has no rest, Listen to what Matthew chapter 11, verse 28 says: Come to me. Jesus said, Come to me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Amen. Wow. Amen.
Isn't that amazing? Very much. Isn't that amazing? When you find yourself restless because of.
Some pain, some hurt, some bad decision.
Some worry that you have Un uh you know, it may be unfounded worry. Uh it may even be Uh unnecessary burden that you have taken on because of your personality. You've taken that on. just to prove yourself or out of fear or out of insecurity. All those things fall into this category's a category of no rest.
Come to Jesus. Ask him. to take it from you. And he doesn't just take it from us. He replaces because it goes on to say in verse 29, Matthew 11:29, take my yoke upon you.
And learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light. He makes an exchange where we are to go about do what he wants us to do, which is to seek and to save that which was lost, to bring hope. And forgiveness to the lost world, and you. uh uh uh give your worries and and burdens to him. And in his will, in his way, in his timing, he'll work everything out.
Amen. Don't worry about it. Give it to him. Amen. Such a great encouragement for us, especially for those of you who are at home and you're in that season of feeling like you are struggling to put even into words what you're experiencing.
Hey, turn to the Bible, turn to Jesus, who gives rest, who gives that hope when it all feels hopeless. Guys, make sure you join us next time, same time, same place. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for supporting today's episode. And if today was your first time listening to us, we just want to let you know we love you.
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