Have you ever had someone tell you, you're not the main character, Jesus is? Look, we get it, but what if God has a better understanding of your identity than you do? Navigating main character energy today on the Clear Read Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the studio. We are glad to have you joining us today for another great conversation with our host, Dr.
Abadan Shah. If you're just joining us for the first time, never heard the show before. Dr. Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr.
Shah, good to see you, my friend. It's good to be here. As Christians, we are on a never-ending quest for some reason to humble other Christians. We have to make sure that other Christians, especially pastors, know their place. And we have come up with, I think, the cliché to end all other clichés.
This cliché puts all other clichés to pastor. To pasture, I should say. This is not about you. The story's not about you. Did you know you're not the main character of the story?
I do. You're not the main character of the story. I do. And of course, well, you know, that sounds noble. That sounds great.
And I do understand the heart behind it. But I think many times we give over to the world what rightfully belongs to us. There you go. And I guess I'm revealing my hand here. If you say that God is the main character of the story, Then who is the director?
Right. Because someone's got to sit in that director's seat.
So, unless you have this whole divided trinity where God is instructing God, it doesn't work. That's right.
Well, God is the director. And you are the character. Right. It's like you said, it sounds very noble and it sounds very humbling, but you also got to remember: every main character that you fall in love with-Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones, Harry Potter, it doesn't matter, whatever main character you love, they do what the author tells them to do. That's right, they know how to direct her.
Yeah, yeah. If you, I mean, think about theater. Like, we're putting on a performance this weekend. Maybe we can talk about that in just a minute. But the main character of the story, if they get up on stage and do what the director says not to do or doesn't do what the director says to do, guess what?
You're not going to be the main character for very long. That's very true. That's a disaster. Yeah, absolutely. And so I think it's really cool.
We're using this illustration to sort of turn on its head this illustration that's been given. But also, Dr. Shaw, it has some theological. Applications for our lives. Oh, absolutely.
The heading of today's discussion is really about identity. What is identity? Right. Now, Brian Rosner, who is a biblical theologian, he is a scholar, he's from Australia. And well, actually, he is teaching in Australia.
And he wrote a book a few years back called How to Find Yourself: Why Looking Inward is Not the Answer. And in this book he says that our culture is suffering from what's known as identity angst. Angst A N G S T means this turmoil, this frustration, this. Inability to know who you are, identity angst. And if you wouldn't mind, let me let me read to you what he writes here.
He says, I have had countless conversations with people Of all ages in a variety of circumstances, who are wondering who they really are. people who've been laid off. people whose parents have died. people whose online identity leaves them feeling like a phony. People who feel deflated by their aspirations for life not coming to fruition.
People who feel diminished by all-consuming responsibilities for children's children or parents, people who feel lost at sea. in our rapidly changing world. And then he concludes Identity angst is on the rise In the 21st century. Wow. Yeah.
He sounds like he's got a good grasp on it. And I think he's hitting on something. All of us are eager to try to find out who we are. And it's one of those weird things because who you are, especially in Christ, is already in you. It's something that you already have.
And yet we're so willing to look elsewhere for it. That's sort of the world's mantra: go find yourself. Go discover who you were meant to be, who you were designed to be. And when you divorce that from God's plan for your life, then you're going to have some half-concocted, just kind of mess of who you think you ought to be, who the world says you should be, who you are in other people's eyes, but you're not looking to your author. You're not looking to your director to maintain the well, it sounds very Disney.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it also sounds like very like 2024, 2025. Like, where, like, I'm thinking about that Snow White movie that came out that everybody couldn't stand, where they were like, you know, this isn't about Snow White singing songs and just loving life. This is about Snow White discovering what type of leader and warrior she was always meant to be. And it was like, huh?
What? I think you didn't see it. See, if you're making a movie about somebody discovering the warrior they were meant to be, fine. But don't make it snow white.
Well, that's sort of the thing. It's like we're putting this story of finding your identity in stories that don't need it. And so, also in our lives. That's right.
Yeah. So, you know, at one time, this whole identity angst would come about, as Brian Rosner calls it, at the caspeti point. Points of life. Cuspaity. I don't even know if that's a real word.
I don't know. But he made it up. And it's one of those words where when someone says it, you nod, you go, hmm, yes, of course. Of course. According to him, is the anxiety associated with reaching the precipice of so-called cusp ages.
So you have ages like 40-year mark or 50-year mark or 60-year mark. This is the time, let's talk about the 50-60-year mark, is when you. You know, you start visiting leather shops and you get yourself that leather jacket. Right. And then you start to have the fringe.
Yes. And then you start looking for a Harley. Yeah. Snake skin boots. Yes.
And then, you know, you sell off your nice, good truck. Right. Right. And start driving a Mustang. Right, right.
Everything is up. It doesn't get good gas mileage, but it sure looks nice and it's going to impress all the 20-year-olds. Yeah. You know, so have you known people to do that like in life? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, people do that. And some do it just so they can have other people say, oh man, he is so cool or she is so cool. And Here's the problem. That Instead of just happening at that 40, 50, 60 year mark, now it's happening.
across the age range.
So ye have teenagers. having identity issues. Young adults having identity issues, you have people in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s. Like the midlife crisis is a thing of the past. It's no longer midlife.
Everybody got their own crisis. Yeah, which points to a deeper problem with our society and looking to define who we are. That's that's trickling down into the teenage years as social media creeps in and you're looking to people around you, you're looking to these influencers, you're looking to what this kind of idealized version of a teenager ought to be, all the way up to 70-year-olds. You know, what's happening? It's comparing like what is your retirement plan?
What does your yacht look like? What is your emotional? I mean, are you happy? Are you happy? I mean, it's like in your mid-70s, you're asking that question: Are you happy?
What does that mean? Right. Means, are you about to change your life? Are you going to walk away from your family, your marriage? And people are doing that.
I'm not saying across the board, thank God. It's not like every person in their seventies is now Calling off their marriage and go filing divorce. No, it's not, but it is happening enough to go. That's Crazy. You know, it sounds funny when you talk about it, like on this side, like 20-something-year-olds are having identity crisis.
It sounds funny when you're in your 30s and 40s, but I remember sitting in your office telling you how unsatisfied I felt because I was thinking that by 21, 22, we should have gold albums. We should have like platinum albums. We should be like on top of the world because you see on YouTube all and on the internet, all of these 20-somethings who are millionaires, billionaires, whether they are or not, I don't know, but that's definitely the image where they're living in these lush houses and they're making videos and they're making impact and they're changing the world and they're they're all very, very young. And so I remember feeling it like at 23, 24 years old, like, what am I doing with my life? Why is this not happening?
Right. You see these superstars that are so young. I mean, even like child, teenage stars into those early 20s, and they're getting so much airtime that your brain sort of tricks itself into believing that this is the case across the board. Every young 20-something needs to do this. Every 19-year-old needs to have this level of success.
Really, this is just a fringe outlier case, but it's getting so much airtime, you think this is normative. Right. And that's where the identity angst comes in. And you see people who are talented, gifted, good looking, and they feel like if that's happening in their life, it should also happen in my life.
Now let's back up for a moment and talk about what makes our identity. Again, I've got this information from people like Brian Rosner, Carl Truman, who have written on identity issues, especially with regards to how the Bible defines it. And Rosner identifies eleven traditional identity markers. 11 traditional identity markers.
So what do they look like?
Well, if you look at this circle, and maybe we can have it in our show notes as well. You have race, ethnicity and nationality. That's part of your identity makeup. You know, my I guess if you want to use the word race uh or ethnicity I would say Indian, but nationality, the first 17 years of my life, I identified as an Indian national. But then I came to America, and in time, I changed my citizenship to American because I believe that American values and the history of this nation and how I find myself at peace here that I chose to become an American citizen.
And One of the best decisions next to, I would say, being saved or next to finding Nicole as my wife, I would say this would be the third. Yeah, absolutely. Is becoming an American citizen. That's part of my. identity now.
Uh another uh identity marker would be the culture. People grow up in the north. They grow up in the South. Would you say they're different cultures? They're extremely different, yeah.
They're different. I mean, there's a lot of things that are similar, a lot of things that make us who we are as Americans. Or if you served in the armed forces, you know, there's a lot of commonalities, but there is a different culture. Oh, yeah. If you visit New York City for a week, I've only ever been to New York once for a week, and it's enough to tell you it's a very, very different culture.
Now, if you go further into New York State. Just know this, it's not the same as New York City. That's a great point. We went on a trip with the high schoolers to Boston on a mission trip. And you hear Boston, they're kind of like harsh, a little rough around the edges.
But that was not our experience at all. But we were not in like the heart of the city either. We were in kind of some outlying boroughs of the city of Boston. Right. People were so nice, so friendly, so hot.
The accent may have been different, but personality would be like just down south, right here in our small town. But had we been in like the heart of downtown, maybe it might have been different. Yeah, sure, sure. Also, part of your identity marker would be something like gender and sexuality. And by the way, if I'm in add here that this is being used for a whole different purpose in the past five, ten, twenty years.
Right. Where gender and sexuality have come to dominate What people think about their identity. That's exactly right. And I think it's very unhealthy. I think it's very wrong.
And most who are using gender and sexuality are using it in the wrong way. And it's it's not good. Uh physical mental capacity. That's also part of your identity marker. Yeah.
How strong you are, or just what what like what you're what limitations you have. Or athletic or not, or mental capacity. We're not gonna go there. Family of origin. That makes a difference.
True. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you guys come from different families. Yeah, I come from a Greek family.
So a lot of that tradition is sort of held on loosely, but it has lasted over the years. My family always loved going to the Greek festival, so there was lots of Greek influence. You remember going to the Greek festival? When I was a little kid, when I was really? Yeah, when I was a little kid, they did the dancing on the tables and throwing the plates down because we went to Greece, and you've been to Greece, the whole throwing the plate.
That was there. Yeah. They did that. I think they were like breakaway plates, but that was a thing. They would get on the tables.
Oh, I remember hating the food. He didn't like the food? I liked it as an adult when we went to actual Greece when I was a little kid. No, didn't like it. No, none.
He was like, I am American. Please kind of have a grilled cheese. There was a flea market across the street that sold pizza, and every year I got my cousin to take me across the street to the flea market to that. Because he didn't like it either. Oh, really?
Yeah, nah. But I definitely remember it. Yeah. And you grew up in Charleston, South Carolina. I did.
So Beachtown, I mean, the beach was very much a part of our life. It was not uncommon to work in the afternoon and go to the beach in the morning because you didn't really have to plan ahead. You could just go to the beach for an hour, half an hour, and just go back home. Beach was just kind of part of life. It was like going to the pool.
That's fine. Free pool. Yeah. Yeah. A few more wildlife critters around there, but we loved it.
I mean, so moving up here, that was an adjustment where the beach is you gotta plan ahead and that's a trip. And we're probably maybe thinking about staying overnight if we're going to the beach. Whereas growing up, it was, hey, we're going to the beach for 30 minutes. That's funny. You know, I think about your family of origin because, of course, they were Christians living in India, which means they really stood out, but also that your family was all educators.
Yes, they were. Both mom and dad were in education. Dad was more on the college level, math and science. Mom was an elementary school principal in the public school system in India, in India. Yeah, and it makes sense that you've devoted the majority of your life to academics, being that that's where your family was at.
I thought every person in India, and of course, India has that reputation of being very education-minded people, but just know this. That's not every Indian family. in India. Uh, there are a lot of them, but does not mean the majority of Indians are just nothing but studying all day. No, majority of the ones I saw growing up in my hometown were on the streets, goofing off, hanging out, wasting ball in the streets, wasting time.
That's that's what they did. Did your parents let you waste time and goof off in the streets? Oh, no, no, I mean, I did I do it, yes, but they didn't like it, but they did not like that one bit. I mean, my friends would be. had you know come to visit me And they will stand if you've ever been to my home, where I grew up.
There was like a driveway, which was not very, very long. I would say, you know, just maybe 50 yards driveway from the gate to the house. And I would stand by the gate with my friends. Why gate? Because, you know, you don't want mom and dad to hear everything we're talking about.
Of course, of course. And. My mom would come out and I mean, embarrass me and embarrass the like and like now you know your friends have already studied for everything. That's why they're here. You haven't studied.
You haven't been, you know, are not ready for your test. They'll go ahead and study. And my friend's looking at me like. If you close your eyes right now, can you see her walking down that path to come to me? No, she don't, she would just open the front door and say that.
Oh man. I mean, it was a knife, you know, because what she's saying is those guys have no desire to study. You're hanging out with them. And you're not going to study either.
So I'm like, oh, I got to go. Yeah, you know how to read between the lines. But what that means is, time to come on in. Yeah, mom knew what she was doing. Yeah, she was embarrassing them and me.
That's a classic mom move. Oh, gosh. That's fantastic. Yes. Relationships.
That's also. I'm sorry, age, age, which generation you grew up in. That. is also part of what makes you you. Great point.
You know, we have I've known People in our church who are now helping their aged parents, who are in their late eighties, nineties. And one of the things they tell me is, man, it's hard. Yeah. Because my mom, my dad, they want to keep everything. I want to throw things away because we know if they're going to come live with us or they're headed to a nursing home or whatever, assisted living, some of these things have to be thrown away.
But mom does not want to throw anything away. That's my mother. That's my mother. I'm that way, which I think I go a little bit too on the extreme where I'm like, if this is an inconvenience in any way, chunk it away and we'll get a new one when I'm ready to. And my parents, both of them, my dad, a little bit, but definitely my mom are like, no, you might need that in a couple of years.
Yeah, who knows? You may want to hang on to that. They have a junk drawer full of cords, like old phone chargers that... are obsolete completely they can't even charge 80s we had a junk drawer growing up oh my gosh still there but that's funny because your parents are not in their 80s no no no so there's something else that has happened maybe one of their parents made a big impact on their life or just somehow convinced them because your mom is is is not yeah she's in her 90s yeah no she's so How did that happen? I don't know.
It could have been her parents. I think her parents had a junk drawer, too. They had ketchup packet drawers where anytime you ate out, you would take the ketchup packets home and put them in the ketchup packet drawer.
Now, full disclosure. We have a Chick-fil-A sauce tray in our home. Oh, yes. We absolutely do. We'll get out, we'll get some extra and then just stick it up there for when we have food at home.
We're like, I'll grab one of my wives ketchup brown.
Well, now, I mean, now you're spoiled, you can buy it in the store, but for a long time, you couldn't get Chick-fil-A sauce anywhere other than Chick-fil-A. Oh, really? We had to hoard it when we could.
So, you know, that's all you hang on to stuff. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But then again, I grew up, of course, my dad. If he was still living today, he would be in the late eighties.
You know, he would be in his late 80s.
So, so he was a product of his generation, but also growing up in India, where things are not so readily available, you had to fix things. Yeah, you showed me how to make a record player out of a CD, cardboard, and a thumbtack. Yeah, remember that? Yeah, that's really cool. That was incredible.
Yeah. And doggone it really worked. Yeah, you're wrong to me. It worked. I mean, so my guy were over here.
You have to do whatever you can to make things work. Yeah. You don't sit back and say, Ah, but it's broken. I don't know. We need to order another one.
Can we order that on Amazon? No. And I think if we really watch ourselves, we can save a lot of money if we do work on repairing things. True. Yeah, that's true.
Absolutely.
So age is also one of the identity markers. Then there's relationships. Kinda Goes along with a family of origin, but it's different because relationships involve relationships with people in your family, but also relationships with your neighbor, relationships with your friends at school, relationships with people in church, relationships as in past relationships. Dating relationships, marriage relationships, people you've been divorced, the past ex-relationships, all those are. very formative in your identity.
So, that also is a very important identity marker. If relationships have been bad, then it's going to impact how you See life. How you see people, how you trust people, how you trust them, whether or not you have a guard up with people. Mm-hmm. All that makes a difference in your identity.
Yeah, that's hugely important for us to think about: you know, who are the people in our lives who have influence and are influencing us? You were actively shaped by our relationships. Like you said, family, but otherwise, I mean, the friends who come in your life, the mentors that you have. We've shared this on the show, but Dr. Shaw, you've impacted us tremendously.
That's true. I mean, in the more than a decade that John and I have been working here, and I'm David as well. Our thinking has been changed, our worldview has been changed, and it's because of you pouring into us and investing in us and helping guide us as we. You know, grow and develop and mature on our own. That's true.
Thank you. And I hope for the best. Yes, absolutely. That's why your parents tell you when you're young, they sort of have a hand in who you hang out with. If you got good parents, they're not going to let you hang out with friends or peers that are going to lead you down the wrong path because they know how relationships affect you.
You know, we're going to talk about that later on. But in our culture today, The narrative, the past narrative is being rewritten. We call this uh revisionist history. Where, if your parent kept you from spending a night at someone's home that you did not really know, but since they invited you, you're gonna go and your parent said, I don't know them, and so you will not be going there. What?
But everybody else is going. I'm gonna look weird.
Now it's I mean, he's being nice, and he they come from a good home. I mean, I don't understand why. And your parents are like, I'm sure they come from good homes, or that family is a good family, or whatever, but I just don't know them. I cannot, in a good conscience, let you stay overnight at that home.
Now, in our culture, and again, we're going to talk about this later on, but just to kind of put it out there. Yeah. Uh the the revisionist history says You were uh overprotected. Mm-hmm. You were um um Yeah.
in a in a sense, it f uh went through a form of abuse. Because your parents did not allow you the freedom that you needed to flower and grow and become the person you could have been? And all the negative things that you don't like about yourself, that you get anxious, or you are sort of protective, or you do not easily, quickly make friends, is because of how your parents treated you. They overprotected you. And so history.
Or, the narrative is being rewritten. Yeah, it's a big problem. It's a big problem. Yeah. And it's one that is, uh, it gains steam with an online presence because people talk about it and they put it out there: like, this is not only a viewpoint, but this is a good viewpoint to have.
It is a badge of honor that you have gone through difficulty as a child and you've been traumatized. And now you have every right to view your parents or view your guardians as the enemy and cut contact with them. That's right.
I mean, you know, there is a place where people have gone through abuse. And I'm not saying abuse in the sense of it has to be the worst kind, physical or sexual abuse. No, sometimes it is. Emotional.
Sometimes it is mental abuse.
Sometimes it is even spiritual abuse, where the Bible was beaten over your head and that's not good. Legalism. You're going to do this, do this, do this, do this, do this. And if you don't, then you are not loved, you're not accepted, you are shunned. That's not a good thing either.
But to take everyday normal parental concern and care, and turned that into, oh, my goodness, my life was horrible. Yeah. I've been A victim of Abuse By this Christian fundamentalist parenting. to that level, that's when you are you're going you're going to have r have troubles because You are creating a persona that never existed. That's right.
And the world is very happy to back that persona up. There's going to be documentaries, there's going to be online stories. There's going to be people who want you to feel that way and to think that way so that you can fall into that victim mindset. And I think, you know, Dr. Shaw, like you said, that's going to deserve its own episode because it's a big problem.
It's a big problem. Yeah, I definitely want to. spend some time on this because that this is a big issue. Identity angst is something that, like I said, Rosner mentioned back in 2015, I believe, or 2017. Oh, we're still right there.
Oh, yeah. And we will be here for a long time. 100%. But if you go back to this 11 traditional identity markers, the next is occupation. Mm-hmm.
Some people are called to be more hands-on, others are more intellectual workers.
Some like the medical field, some love mechanics, some like artistry or literary works.
Some are more into Um you know, landscaping. Yeah. The different occupations that make you who you are. Like for me, I I like doing things out in the yard. But landscaping isn't something that gives me energy.
No, it's not who you are. Yeah, it's not. It's not because I hate the outdoors. I love the outdoors, but that's not going to give me energy. I agree with you.
It's not something I'm passionate about. Possessions. If you come from a home where everything was readily available to you, you never had to worry about. What are you going to eat? Or what are you gonna wear?
And all those kind of things, versus coming from a home where there were lots and lots of hand-me-downs. There are times that you went without. Food, those kind of things. And there are people who've gone through that, and it does impact their identity. Yeah, that's true.
Their personality. That's true. It starts to affect their mannerisms and how they see life and how they see the world. Yeah, that's such a huge thing to deal with and process in formative years, especially. Of course.
As your worldview is being shaped, as your perspective on things is being shaped. Yeah. And the last two I want to mention, and our time is today. Make a break here: is religion. And then personality and character religion.
Man. What a huge difference does that make in a person's identity. You know, my dad uh grew up in a Muslim home.
so it definitely impacted his identity. But he did not grow up in a Muslim home as in a radical Muslim home or a Muslim home in the sense of somewhere out in the Middle East. No, he grew up in an Indian, affluent, educated Muslim home.
Some people haven't grown up in that kind of an environment. It's not the same for them. And then personality and character. If you grew up in a setting where you saw people lying. Or you grew up in a home or around people who misrepresented the truth and did things underhandedly, a lot of backstabbing, a lot of gossip and backbiting went on, it's gonna impact your mindset.
Just do understand before we close here. Christ can change everything. That's right.
Thanks to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Pray.com, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast and content from. And you can always support us financially at Abadanshaw.com forward slash give. John, anything you want to close with today? Yes, definitely want to let you guys know that we are going to be on TBN Plus starting on December 18th.
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