You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome back to the Clearview Studio.
We're so glad you're joining us today. You know, you could have picked any radio show to listen to, but you decided to join us right here on the Clearview Today Show. We're glad to have you, and we're glad to be here with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr.
Shah, welcome to the studio. Thank you. Nice to see you. A great conversation, and we're going to continue the conversation that we've been talking about. But Paul is discussing this idea of election through the Book of Romans.
That's right, that's right. But before we do that, we do want to give you a quick reminder: all throughout the month of October, Dr. Shaw has been live on Pray Radio. A lot of great responses are coming in. 7 a.m.
Eastern Time every single morning from Monday to Friday. You can hear Dr. Shaw's sermon, you can hear this show. Your snippets of our devotional, which is called the Lighthouse, drops every Saturday morning. But we really, really, really want to make a big push now that November, I mean, I'm sorry, now that October is coming to a close, you've got a couple of days left.
The algorithm is listening, it is seeing what you like.
So make sure you tune in, Dr. Abadan Shah on Prey Radio every single day, every single weekday, 7 a.m. standard. And if you're not already, make sure that you are following Dr. Shah on Pray.com.
It's a great way to stay up to date with all of the content that drops. I'd love to see those push notifications come in. That's right. In the morning, new content for me to watch and for me to enjoy.
So make sure that you are subscribed, that you are following Dr. Shah as a featured leader on Pray.com. That's right. Quick question for you guys. Seems like, yes.
So this is a segment of our show where we talk about embarrassing things that have happened to us, moments in life that really just make you cringe. I gotta ask you guys, and Dr. Shah, I want you to answer this too: how many times, what do you, what would you say is the ratio? of times where autocorrect has actually helped you. Versus just made you look silly.
Oh my goodness. I would say. If I were to go on a ratio on a scale of ten, I would say nine and a half Out of 10 times, autocorrect has messed me up. Yes, I think so too. It's one of the worst things that our phones do to us.
I've never had autocorrect help me. Especially if I'm in a hurry and this keeps changing things. I'm like, no, not that. No, stop, stop. Right.
I'm talking to my watch or my phone saying, stop. Yeah. Because you keep suggesting things. And sometimes I will. Yeah.
Pick the original word that I put there and then keep on going only to realize that it's still trying to change that word. Or then you start talking to it, and then it sends to whoever, like you're texting your professor, and all of a sudden they get stop, stop, stop. You're not listening. Right. And they're like, what?
I know.
Sometimes that happens too. The thing that gets me is when autocorrect suggests words that I have never in my life used. Oh, yeah. Like it'll, I'm typing a message out to somebody. I'm like, did you mean sharknado?
No. Why would I ever have meant that? Pasta shop was a big one. When I first got my phone, I started working here. When I would speak to Siri or when I would text Pastor Shah.
It would not it it just did not like me trying to say pasta shop and all the time it was saying did you check with pasta shop Every time.
So story time for why this is a is a did I do that is uh you know on yesterday's show and a couple of the other shows we were talking about a new EP that we've got coming out. Yes. And we're gearing up. I gu I guess this is okay to say. If not, I'll cut it out.
But we're gearing up to start releasing original music or start writing original music again.
So we're looking into, okay, what does distribution look like, right? Music distribution is always. Kind of tricky when you're doing DIY. You want to make sure you do things right with copyright and all this stuff.
So I was talking to a contact that had been given to me years ago. And I said, Dr. Shaw, is it okay to contact this woman and see about maybe distributing future music? He said, Yeah, go for it. Just, you know, keep it professional as we're wont to do.
So I got her number and I said, Hey, this is John Galantis from Clearview Worship. We've talked. Briefly, or from Clearview Church a while back, we talked about maybe possibly distributing music. She said, Hey, I'm at a dinner, but can I call you in just a little bit? I said, Yes, sure.
This is over text.
So she texts me and says, Hey, I'm ready to chat. Are you free? I texted, Yes, ma'am. and hit scent. And what she received was, Yes, mama.
100% this woman who's trying to help us distribute our music and get in. Like, you know, that's kind of like an important phone call. Maybe, maybe she thought you were like a quirky musician type. Uh-huh. Like, you know, hey, daddy, hey, mama.
Hey, I got some music for all you cool cats. Maybe she thought that. No, she pretty much knew because then I panicked. And instead of unsending it, I did the thing that before. Like you had to do before unsend, which is like, I just put ma'am and then the asterisks.
And then she didn't respond for like. 60 seconds.
So then I was like, and now I feel like I need to overcorrect. And I told myself, stop, don't do this. But I just texted, sorry, that was unfortunate. And then she said, she sent me back like a ton of like laughing emojis. And then I was like, I waited like 30 minutes and she still didn't call.
So I was like, I guess I'm just going to call her. And she never brought it up. She never mentioned it. But golly, I can't tell you how many times that's happened to me. Yes, mama.
Yeah. Yes, mama. Has that ever happened to you guys? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
I have. I catch myself.
Now I look carefully through the message because, as a pastor, you know, a lot of people text me. The last thing I want to do is send something and then say, Hey, I didn't mean that. That was not me. Yeah. Because in today's world, um, You know, those kind of things happen.
Uh so I check and double check. I did that one time and David knows that. Uh somebody in our church, uh, they had a baby.
So I went to write congratulations. It didn't say congratulations. Oh, it said cigarettes. Cigarettes. What a beautiful newborn.
Cigarettes. Oh, look, the pastor texted us. Oh, what did he say? Cigarette. He says the cigarettes.
No one says to pick up smoking. No, that's not what I meant. And I was like, what? And I had to delete that message and send congratulations. And it's still trying to make it cigarettes.
Why on earth? That's the thing, but it's like you have no reason. Cigarettes is not in your text history. There's no reason to think that that's what you meant. Could you have meant this?
No. I mean, I hope AI will sort of. Step to the plate and understand and know that in a moment of. Of somebody celebrating a child, they do not want to sit on the porch and smoke light one up. Yeah, that's not what they want to do.
People talk all the time about AI is going to take over the world. And we have instances like this, and we're like, you know, Ultron wouldn't have made that mistake. Right, exactly.
Well, guys, today's verse of the day is actually coming to us from a listener, George P., over in Dallas, Texas. He submitted a verse of the day for us. He said, so if you guys at home want to submit your verse of the day or your favorite verse for us to read, you can do that at 252-582-5028. That's right. That's a cool thing.
We'd love to hear from you. George P. sent over Romans 10, verse 1. Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. You know, a lot of times we think about all these people who, the people that we talk about, right, that are saying, you know, the church has replaced Israel, Israel is done away with.
It's good to hear from listeners who don't believe that, who believe that, you know, just like George is saying in this verse that actually makes it very, very clear that Paul's desire is that Israel get saved. Not to cast them away into outer darkness and say, you know, you're done, you've had your chance. He's saying, no, if Paul desires that they get saved, then there must be some future where that's possible. Oh, absolutely. In fact, I'm pleasantly surprised that there are a lot of people who may not be public figures.
They may not have a platform somewhere, whether it's social media or church or some college university position or seminary position. They just. They're Christians. They're educated Christians. Uh I've heard from many of them recently who said, you know, I am glad that you're taking the stance you are, where you are properly and hermeneutically um Approaching the subject rather than just going by what some big name has said, you know.
church has superseded Israel or or what what do you mean? The modern nation of Israel, that's that's that's the inheritor of the God's promises in in the Bible? Come on, that's not true.
So I'm glad to see that a lot of people are listening. And not necessarily to me all. Every single person, but they're listening to God, listening to the word, and. Recognizing that Israel is Israel, church is church, and God still has promises for For ethnic Israel. That's right.
And I'm very optimistic that this. this evil wind that has taken over our world Even The Christian circles since October 7, 2023, of being anti-Israel, I'm hoping that the wind will blow back. Yeah, I agree. And some sanity will return, and some proper biblical exegesis will return. And Nobody's saying that If you are Jewish.
If you are an Israelite, a Hebrew descendant, If you are an Israeli Right? I mean, that's the modern way of saying somebody who's from Israel. that you are automatically sent into heaven. I'm not saying that. You're not saying that right.
Paul is not saying that because that's what he says here in Romans chapter 10 verse 1. Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. If being Jewish automatically puts you in The saved category, then Paul would not have said that. That's right. There would be no reason for him to write that.
It's not an auto-save feature. Like, you're just and then you automatically just kind of get ushered into heaven. There are preachers who believe that. There are, I once called them theologians, but they are preachers and they are popular preachers. They're popular end time preachers.
That you can be born into salvation just by being Jewish. Yes. Yes. They will say God has one way of saving. Christians So-called Gentiles over the world, and he has another way of saving Jewish background believers.
How do they back that up? Uh they just use um Passages from the Old Testament, the covenant language, to say that they don't have to do the whole. Praying to receive Jesus as their Savior. formula.
So they're all going in. And I don't agree with that. I can mention the name, I'd rather not. Right, right, right. Not that I'm afraid to, but we try to show some respect.
Show some respect. Yeah, yeah. But uh they they are there. And we cannot agree with them. I mean, in that by that logic, Jesus only died for some, right?
He he didn't die for the Jewish people because there was no need to. He didn't or did. He wouldn't have had to. Yeah, there's no. I mean, if that's what we're going to say, then think about A lot of statements that Jesus made.
Salvation is of the Jews. Um the way he talked to Nicodemus, you must be born again. Even the Samaritan woman, but we can debate that whether they were truly Jewish. I don't think so. I think they were people who had been resettled.
back in after the first exile.
So Uh y you know, there are many other people In the New Testament, you see them being converted.
Well, Nicodemus is a great example. No one, even if there's an argument over the Samaritan woman, no one's going to argue that Nicodemus wasn't Jewish. Jesus told him, Yeah, I mean, I'm guessing it wasn't just, hey, here's how it works. It was, no, you, Nicodemus, must be born again. Also, Paul.
I know there's some debate um in some circles, like like um I would say the new prospective type crowd who will say that Paul did not need to be converted. What happened on the road to Damascus was not really a conversion, it was more.
So they really thought they, so there are people who think that if Paul had never been converted, he would have gone to heaven because he was Jewish. Uh I don't know how they would do that. I don't think the new prospective people would say that. Gotcha, gotcha. But these other theologians may, which really is very confusing because.
If they say that, then a lot of passages in the Bible just kind of stand up and. And rebuke them. But the new perspective people will say, Even though there had to be something that happened, it's not a conversion the way. A gentile It's converted. Like you and I.
We come to Jesus Christ and we are saved. It's not the same kind of saving. It's like you go from. Um the covenant family to an awakened covenant family. A covenant family that recognizes that the Messiah has come.
It's not like a conversion that's happening, like you are a sinner, hellbound, and then there comes a moment that you are. Aware, God's grace comes to you, you respond in faith and obedience, and you are saved. And now there is a radical transformation that happens in you. It's not like that. It's like they're already in the family, just blind.
And then with um Recognizing the Messiah, it's like they're not blind anymore, but they were still in the house. That's interesting. I've never heard, I've never heard of this. Yeah, that's odd to me. I mean, We've talked about stuff on the show before that, you know, based on our background and based on hearing you, your preaching for, you know, a decade for both of us now.
It just seems like. Why wouldn't you believe this way, or why, why, why could you have that stance? But it's interesting to me to hear people say things like Paul wouldn't have needed to be converted, or it was just sort of a clarification in his understanding. Yeah, because Paul. Paul himself talks about a pretty radical change.
He talks about being the chief of sinners. He talks about being the worst of the worst. I agree. And that sounds like a conversion to me.
Well, it also minimizes the cross, right? Because now there's two ways of salvation. You could either accept Jesus into your heart and be born Jewish. And be born Jewish. They will say now, it may not be really a new perspective.
position. It's more like the Paul Within Judaism type perspective. Gotcha. Mark Nanos and maybe some Paula Fredriksen th that group will probably take that position. Where it's not like Like they don't believe in the cross.
Mm-hmm. They do believe in the cross But it's not this radical instantaneous. moment of salvation that happens. That's a great point. Was Judah...
Judah. Was Judas. Jewish?
So Right there, what are they doing? He's already going. Yeah, again, I mean, I know you don't believe that, but no, but it's a good way for us to discuss it. Yeah, of course, he's not. He's not saved.
I mean, Jesus Himself said that. Yeah, he was a son of perdition. He was a. devil entered him. Yeah.
So talking about Paul's desire here, right? He's saying that my presence. My heart's desire and prayer to God is Israel that they may be saved. He's forward-thinking. There's a goal in mind, and that's sort of the goal of that.
Kind of encapsulates these three chapters, right? Romans 9, 10, 11. Would you say that's the goal of the entire Book of Romans? formative is uh Romans nine through eleven to our proper understanding of the book of Romans. And I would say it's um It it's very important.
It's not a digression. It's not a little. Paul sort of getting off on a rabbit trail. And then he comes back to his real purpose in chapter 12. I don't think that's what's happening.
I think all of this is very connected. And Romans 9 through 11 is sort of like now, now, since this whole thing is going on, pay attention. Based on what I've told you, this is the conclusion. That is what I was about to ask you. I was about to say: does.
Like, as a scholar, do you think that Romans 9 through 11 stands out in a remarkable way? I think so.
Okay. I don't think it's an extra added-on. I don't think it's a digression. I don't think this is like an aside. This is the heart of what Paul is trying to get to.
Yeah. If Roman, I mean, Isn't Romans Largely regarded as Paul's like crowning work, his magnum opus. Yeah, that's also a debate. I mean, all these things that you're bringing up today is kind of funny. They're all points of contention against among some scholars.
Some people will say, no, Romans is an occasional letter. Occasional in uh scholarly language is not like Once in a while, occasional means it's written for an occasion, it's written to address a situation. There was something happening in the first century church in Rome. Paul was addressing this. This is not his magnum opus, this is not his crowning work, this is just something to address a situation.
So let's figure out what that situation is. And then read. Paul's letter to the Romans in light of what we figured out. Do you believe that it could be an occasional letter written to suit that occasion and also be his greatest work? That's how I approach it.
Gotcha. That's how I approach it, is that it is an occasional It has an occasional purpose. that he was writing to the first century church, which was divided. Between Jewish background, Gentile background, believers, over the issue of the law, over the continuing Promises of God for the Jewish people, whether or not they were still God's choice people, whether they were still. There are still promises left for them.
So, Paul was writing to address that issue. But in the process, he also gave some real solid. Rich. biblical theology of salvation And salvation history and God's enduring promises. For Israel and how to make sense of what's happening now, how to make sense of what's going to happen in the future.
All of that Is the book of Romans.
So it is. It is Uh pause. Pride and glory. Speaking of like the Jewish people, you know, I'm thinking about like judges. We've been editing a lot of judges lately for the new book that's coming out.
Shout out to 30 Days of Seen Christ in the book of Judges. But we've been editing judges, reading a lot of judges, and you see this pattern of. Israel's idolatry. And it's not something that ends after Judges, right? Like they continue to struggle with this.
But then you pointed out. That Once they got back from the Babylonian exile, idolatry was done. They never struggled with it. Yeah, that's true. It started this golden age of Judaism, right?
Where they were like, rebuilt the temple.
Now they're back and they're dedicated to God. How does that same I mean, I know it's not the same generation, but how do we get from that point? to them crucifying the Messiah. That's a great point. So, yes, generically speaking, or generally speaking, as a better way to say that, this was the golden age.
Of course there were also Sadducees who did not believe in the resurrection, who did not believe in The scriptures passed the first five books. Of course there were Uh the chief priests Who were buying and selling the position of the high priest. Of course, there were people who had become so Hellenized that they were completely. going away from the faith of the fathers. And I'm talking about The Old Testament.
So, when I say the golden age of Judaism, what I'm referring to is the Pharisaic Judaism, where they had come back to observing the law. Uh observing table fellowship that That true worship is not just what happens in the temple in Jerusalem. In fact, the temple has been corrupted, the priesthood is corrupt. That's what Pharisees believed. Paul was a Pharisee.
And that now we observe table fellowship where we where we when we sit together to eat, it's an act of worship to God. Like a home church type of thing? It was sort of a home church while still recognizing the mother church, while still recognizing the synagogues. But not the temple. Oh, mother church would be the synagogue.
It would be the temple, is what I'm referring to.
Okay, okay, okay. Although they didn't call it church. Church is a different organization that began after the day of Pentecost.
Okay. But. The Jewish people, the average Jewish people who were influenced by the Pharisaic movement. Where Against the Sadducees. Against the temple authorities, against the chief priests and the pharaohs and the scri and the high priests and all those.
So they were supportive of the temple as an institution, but not the people running it? Yes, because they felt like Temple had become so corrupt. And so the way to recapture some of that purity of what they were doing would have been on a smaller level.
Well, it was on a personal level in their homes.
Okay. Yeah. I mean, isn't that wonderful? I mean, I think it's got good intentions, but then how do you get to the Pharisees constantly being villainized in the scriptures? Like Jesus calling them out.
Right. Because they got so hung up on the law that they forgot that all that was to push. Point them towards the fulfiller who was Jesus.
So Remember Jesus said unless you're Righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
So Jesus also recognize the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees.
So, we're going to have to rethink. It's not like the Bible is wrong or the New Testament is wrong. No, we need to reread those passages. Mm-hmm. Because somehow We have read Only one sentiment.
When there is more That is there. Is it safe to say they were so anti-authority they ended up becoming an authority unto themselves? I would say that that's a good way to depict that. And they became So meticulous about the law that they almost became law worshipers. But They went beyond that.
They began to see human heart is evil and corrupt and sinful. Mm-hmm. So instead of saying, you know, man, they were so focused on the law that they couldn't recognize you, no. They had also found ways to shortcut the laws. They had found ways to help people Shortcut, loopholes, loopholes.
That's why Jesus called them whitewashed tombs. Because on the surface it looks like we're observing all of the tenets of the law, we're keeping everything, but really on the sly we're kind of Yeah, you're like even saying like uh you could you could curse your parents if you just say things a certain way. That's really bad. I mean isn't that a passage there?
Somebody can maybe find it for us.
So if you call your f your Father or mother, Raka, you know, that's a passage that I want us to read. That I mean, so it's like, Really? Y'all had become so bad that you would be willing to call your parents a bad name. And if you. It's not like when you're making a promise to your parents, you know, you could say, I'm swearing by the gold of the temple.
Then you don't have to keep the promise. Like, mom and dad, I will take you to your doctor's appointment. I swear by the gold of the temple. But when the mama said, Hey, you can you take us? No, I can't.
But you swore, you swore by the temple. Ah. Not the temple. I said the gold of the temple is not the temple.
So here we go, it's Matthew 15:5. Uh he uh I'm going to read in verse three. He answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? You know, they were chastising Jesus' disciples because they were not washing their hands. before eating bread.
Like washing it's not like because their hands were dirty. There's like a rich ceremonial. Purification law. For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and your mother, and he who curses his father or mother, let him be put to death. But you say Whoever says to his father or mother, Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God.
Then he need not honor his father or mother. There's your way around it. There you go. Wow. Thus, you have.
made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.
So they love the loss so much, but they also want to try to get around it to make their lives easier or to make a profit or to make themselves look better. Yeah, I mean that's what they were doing. They were trying to uh Almost like they were they were um That found a loophole. Mm. Even To the point of taking advantage of your own parents.
Now, that's pretty bad. Yeah, that's pretty bad. You know, we like to think that Christians don't do that, but I think, like, Christian loopholes are a thing that people exploit 100% of the time. 100%. Yeah, I just listen to it for the beat.
I don't actually listen to the lyrics. I can watch this. It's okay. I'm not actually absorbing that and taking it into my own. Absolutely, we still do this.
If anything comes on, I'll just fast forward through it. Yeah. Yeah. See, here's another one in Matthew chapter 5 and verse 21. You have heard that it was said to those of old, You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of judgment.
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raka, okay, so now that's an important point here. Raka, it's sort of. you know, it's it's it's uh it's like a almost like a cuss word. Shall be in danger of the council, but whoever says, You fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
Therefore, if you bring your gift to the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar. Go your way. First be reconciled to your brother and then come and offer your gift. I mean, think about That passage. Jesus is saying, No, don't do that.
First Make it right with your brother. Instead of Getting off on technicality. Right. Fix the issue at heart. Yeah.
Fix the issue at its own. The real issue. Yeah. Yeah. You fool, you know what I mean?
That's a those are different words for uh fool. And so Jesus is saying to them, don't play like that. Then do that. What is the take home for us as we're closing the episode out? Like, what do we take away from this discussion?
How do we live our Christian lives in light of what Jesus is saying? A great, great question. I think that's, I know the listeners and the viewers are wondering: it's like, what can I get out of this? That the Pharisees were bad or Jesus got them? What is the purpose?
The purpose is: without grace, you and I cannot survive the Christian life. We need God's grace. Great point. We need God's grace. The Pharisees on the best.
on their best day were hypocrit hypocrites. Uh they they they lost sight of the depravity. of the human heart. We are so wicked, we are so evil, we are so sinful. And we need God's grace to To take hold.
His forgiveness through Jesus Christ. Amen. We need God's grace. Even as believers, we need God's grace. Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow.
Same time, save station. We're going to be diving further into this topic here on the Clearview Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Prey.com, wherever you get your podcast and content from. And you can always support us financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give.
John, what do you want to close with today? Just want to say all, thank you so much for supporting us. You can be on the lookout for our new book, 30 Days of Seeing Christ in the Book of Judges, and our new EP from Clearview Worship. That's Cafe Sessions Volume 1, both of which are going to be released in the following weeks. We're going to have some release dates for you very soon.
That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Tonight.
