You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abinad Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis and we are on the cusp of another amazing week right here in the Clearview Today studio. Thank you so much for joining us today.
We're here with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host. Of today's show, Dr. Shaw, so good to have you in the studio. Thank you, good to be here.
Absolutely, absolutely. Just a quick reminder before we get into everything today. All throughout the month of October, Dr. Shaw is live on Prey Radio every single morning, Monday to Friday, 7 a.m. on Prey Radio.
That's 7 a.m. Eastern Time, so you can adjust accordingly. But it's a great, great experiment that we're running all throughout the month of October that the guys over at Pray Radio Have set up for us.
So make sure you're tuning in because that's gonna let Prey Radio and their AI algorithm know what content you wanna be consuming. While you're over there, make sure you subscribe to Dr. Abadan Shah's channel atraynpray.com. You're gonna stay up to date with everything coming out on Prey Radio, but not just Prey Radio, all the videos that are available, discerning doctrine. The Lighthouse podcast, all the things that are available over on Pray.com, lots of resources and some content that you can engage with from Dr.
Schott every single day of the week. Dr. Shot, the Lord speaks to us sometimes through dreams, right? But then also sometimes you just have dreams that don't make no sense. Like I think about God creating dreams and He's telling the angels, like they're gonna lay down every night and sometimes they're gonna really vividly hallucinate.
And the angels are like, oh, but it's. not going to mean anything. I was like, sometimes they will. Not always. Yeah.
Not always. Not always. Sometimes it's not. It's like the indigestion. Are you going to let them know how to discern?
It'll be hard, but they can do it.
So I had this dream last night. Actually, it was this morning as I was waking up. And I wanted to, I told Dr. Shah about it off mic. I wanted to tell it on the air.
So there's a great friend of ours. I'm not going to mention names, but he's a great, great friend. He's been a guest on the podcast before. And I dreamt that we were all overseas together. We were taking a boat ride on the Sea of Galilee.
Dr. Shah, you've been on that boat ride four times now? Yes. And I've been on it twice. Very, very cool boat red.
And you usually want to take a time if you're leading a group like Dr. Shah does, you want to take just a moment to say, Hey guys, think about where we are. Jesus walked on those water.
So, in my dream, our friend was there and he was leading a group, and he came to Dr. Shah, and I was overhearing this conversation. And he said, Dr. Shah, what I want you to do is I want you to stand up and start kind of teaching. But I want you to get some things wrong.
I want you to say some things incorrectly and then I'm gonna come in and I'm gonna kind of correct you. And Dr. Shaw was like. No, I would rather, I would, I don't really feel comfortable with that. Kind of frank, but also kind.
Yeah. You were like, I don't really feel comfortable with that. I would rather just tell you the information and you can, and you can lead it. And I don't have to say anything. He was like, no, no, no, no.
I want you to say it wrong so that I can come in and actually correct it. That'll make me look good. Like, just really frankly. And I was like, Should I step in? Should I say something?
Like, I think the show's got it, but maybe I should say something. And Dr. Shaw was like, I really don't feel comfortable. He was like, just do it. Just do it.
It'll be good. And I'll come in and correct you, and we'll know. But they, you know, they'll.
So, Dr. Shad got up and said, guys, I knew he was going to be uncomfortable. He was like, I want you to just think about where we are on the water right now. Think about when Jesus walked on this water and the Apostle John. stepped out on the water and walked with him.
And right on cute. This is all a dream, by the way. Right on queue, our friend stood up, went to go correct him, slipped and fell overboard and fell into the water. And as I watched him disappear under the waves, I was like, This feels real. This is a dream.
This can't be real. And I remember looking around to see Dr. Shah. I didn't see him. And my eyes just opening up and I was awake.
It was the craziest thing. I just laid there in the bed and I was like, Oh my goodness. I gotta I was like, I gotta write that down in my notes and tell Dr. Shaw about that dream. That's funny.
What is funny I told John is that actually just happened not very long ago. Uh I was at a um Kind of an orientation, sitting with other pastors, and people were getting up and kind of introducing their ministries, their roles in various capacities. This isn't real life. This is real life. This is not a dream.
And so this gentleman got up. for some agency. And again, I I support the work. Got nothing to do with that. It's great.
But he got up and he very passionately began to talk about what he did and was going to challenge us to step out of our comfort zones. And then to step out and do what God is calling us to do in this generation. And so I was like, okay, all right, we're listening. And a lot of pastors in that room. When I say a lot, I'm talking about.
At least 20, 30 pastors.
So Then he says, he says, I want you to think about it. What kind of a man was Matthew? I'm thinking, Matthew, the tax collector.
Okay. He said, yeah, he was a tax collector. I mean, back in those days, and I mean, and he even. began to explain the how The Jewish people looked upon tax collectors as sort of the betrayers of their people and working with the Romans. He didn't have a good reputation.
And so I was like, okay. That's true. All that is true. And then he says, you know, but when? Jesus walked on the waves.
And Guess who stepped out? It it went Matthew. Matthew stepped out. And so when he did that, it was kind of interesting throughout the room. Because pastors were either looking at their food or they were Listening to the man or just kind of in a way.
And still listening to him. All of a sudden they're like. Imagine imagine thir imagine thirty heads just all being like Huh? Yeah, I I had a pastor across from me. I'd never met in my life.
He had introduced himself. just maybe about thirty minutes earlier. And I had to introduce myself too. Other than that, we didn't know each other, but it w it was funny, we both looked at each other like eye contact, like. What just happened?
So let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. You've been preaching for over 30 years, right? Right. Was that an ill-prepared sermon?
Did he misspeak?
Well, I've misspoken before, and people do that while in the midst of it. It's like, you know, and then Abraham at the burning bush. Right. Well, it wasn't Abraham at the burning bush, it was Moses. Right.
But, you know, you just kind of. Say the wrong wrong name. Yeah. And and by mistake or uh other names like Saying Isaiah instead of Jeremiah. It's like a glitch, it's a harmless glitch.
It happens.
So Peter instead of Paul. But here he gave this extra information very much about Matthew being a tax collector. He drew out principles. He didn't talk about Matthew when he was a fisherman and he started following Jesus. Oh, wow.
Matthew put his detailed information in. If he had said Matthew was a fisherman, and I would have been like, I think he meant Peter. He means Peter. But he talked about the tax collecting and how he had. I guess the lesson for us is a lesson in humility because I'm sure the man was wondering.
I'm sure if he had any. Read on the room. Did something just happen? I just did something. How tangibly did the room change?
I mean, it changed because. People just kind of went from If it's 20 to 30 people, it's not this vast multitude where you can't really read people's expressions. That's a tight enough group that you can see people sort of react. And we're sitting in close proximity, so. I'm sure he knew something had happened.
Did anything. Do you think at any point? beyond the preaching, he realized his mistake. I did not stick around because I had to leave and come back here. What year was this?
This was recently. Not very recently. And so, anyways, it was also a reminder to self. You know, just be careful because some point you may. Tell a story or g you know Really?
Double down on some fact which is actually a non-fact. It's probably rare for you because scholarship doesn't allow for that kind of thing. You can't just start talking. And giving opinions on things that you haven't like really researched and devoted your life to. Yeah, I I have um in preaching I have made mistakes and said the wrong name or the wrong date.
And you can see a couple of people will smile.
So I'm like, I think I s said something wrong. And it's funny when this smile is like, Okay, you caught me there. Yeah, yeah. I said Abraham at the burning bush instead of Moses. You you got me.
But obviously based on what you're saying, based on the context that you're using. You know that it's Moses. Yeah, you can tell. There's a difference between like an error and like a little glitch. Right.
I mean, like, you're like, oh, that just. Like, oops, I thought of the wrong name. Right, right, right. Yeah. Dr.
Shaw, we have a check-in today. Yes. Our check-in says: Hey, Dr. Shaw, I enjoyed your episode on election last week, but don't you think it's unfair that God chose to work through Jacob and not Esau? They were both sons of Isaac, and yet God chose Jacob before they were even born.
What was special about Jacob that God wanted to continue his plan through one and not the other? Based on what we find in scripture, whether the Old Testament or the New Testament, there was nothing special about Jacob that God picked him. To the contrary, I would say. If you were to level the playing field and then put a Jacob and an Esau side by side, Esau was hands down the winner. He's the more competent, or even the more spiritually competent.
I won't say spiritually competent. He was just. A man's man. Gotcha. Portray him wearing some animal skin or hunter-like look.
Sound like a brute, like a barbarian. Yeah, I don't think he was like that. Mm-hmm. I think he was a person who uh who was um Yeah, he was outdoorsy, but at the same time, he was. He wasn't like a Neanderthal.
No, he was not a Neanderthal. He was not some brute of a man. He was. I think he was as cultured as it can get. At the same time, he was.
Good. A good hunter.
So nothing. that I can say that this man was just dense. No, he was He was a natural pick, I would say. Right. Especially in today's world, when you have pastors who are trying to be cool or, or, personalities and and Christian Christian circles who are trying to be uh admired by other people.
They're the cool guys. They'll ride that motorcycle or they have a leather jacket on. And again, nothing wrong with those things. But if you're doing that to be cool. Like I'm gonna go get a tattoo so that everybody can think, Oh, look how How rough and tough of a man I am.
I don't mean nothing against tattoos, but. They're doing that so you would think I am this cool dude. Right. Um Esau would have been the one. Yeah.
Yeah. Hands down, he would have been like, That's the guy I want to be like. Yeah, I'll follow him. Yeah, oh, he's the example that I want to be like, him, like, like uh, the pastors in their 30s and 40s, and they're like, I think it's time for me to get a motorcycle because I saw someone like Esau doing it. Even based on the description that were given first of Jacob and Esau, not down the road when Jacob is more spiritually minded, but Esau was a man of the field and he prepares game and he's a skilled hunter.
And it says Jacob dwelt in the tents. Yeah, like pale-looking fellow. I kind of relate to that because, you know, growing up in the south, there's that's that is kind of how it is. If you're indoorsy or if you like the arts or if you like music, you're not out there hunting and fishing and doing all that stuff. I do kind of understand that there is that skew towards those are the competent.
Yeah. Those are the competitions. The man's man. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Jacob was more of the sickly mama's boy.
Mm-hmm. who was uh having visions and stuff and just kinda odd fella. You know, this comes from our talk, like, just like this user checked in. We were talking about this on the Friday episode: this idea of election. It's something we've been building towards.
And we did a few episodes months ago on Predestination. And I think people wanted us to jump ahead and address what was in Romans 9, but. It wasn't time yet. We were walking through Romans. Everything is a progression.
You cannot just jump around in that book, in the book of Romans, because one thought leads to another. Right, that's true. And we wanted to stick with. The flow that the Holy Spirit had given to the Apostle Paul rather than just. Answering our questions and picking and choosing, like in a buffet.
There's a progression to what Paul is saying here. Speaking of picking and choosing into a buffet as though you're in a buffet, is that what God does with us? You know, that's kind of the question behind election. Yeah. The mashed potatoes been out the Brussels.
You can go to heaven, you can go to heaven. You three are not going to heaven. You're going to heaven. And all of this is before. The foundations are even laid before people are even born, he chooses.
That's right. I mean, that's what people think. Right. And that's not true.
So I want us to go back to Romans chapter 9. in verse 13 because here in Romans 9 We kind of ended at, as it is written, Jacob I have loved. But Esau have hated hated uh kind of talking about The book of Malachi, because that's where we find this reference. But that statement when God made, that statement, Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated. It was given to a stubborn, obstinate, Rebellious people Who were Doubting God's love for them.
Mm-hmm. Because they had been to exile, because they had now come back and life was not. Simple anymore. They had to build the temple. They had to rebuild the walls around Jerusalem.
All this, things were now not as stable as they used to be, or so they thought. Where is the god of Jacob, where is the God who blesses us? They had become very cynical. You know, when people go through times of stress, if they don't have a proper way of Dealing with that stress, they become cynical, critical, arrogant Very like resentful. Resentful, again, another important word.
They become. Yeah. you know, just bitter. They had become bitter. Yeah, God loves us.
Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's how He shows us His love. Kicks us out of the land. Drags us back in. Half our family doesn't want to come back into the promised land.
So we're all scattered all over the world, but hey, we're God's people. He chose us. And so, what God is saying to them is. Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated. Means my love for you is so deep and so.
a non-conditional That it almost seems like I hate other people. That's how deeply I love you. Yeah, because the way I treat others, I love them too. Yeah. You know, Jacob Not only was Jacob loved by God, Esau was also loved by God.
But compared to how much he cared for Uh The descendants of Jacob, it almost seems like he hated the descendants of Esau. Yeah. That's the whole point of what is being said here. Right. It's not about I've chosen Jacob.
Esau is doomed for all of eternity because I didn't choose him. That's so important because that verse is often a stumbling block for people. It's often difficult to reconcile. It was for me. I mean, until Dr.
Shah, your message, and until our conversations, I've had a hard time with this verse. Like, how do we, I mean, how do we even say that Esau was hated by God? Like, how do we work that out? But that makes much more sense when you think about the magnitude of the love that God had for Jacob and for Israel. Is so deep that even God's love for Esau seems like hatred in comparison.
And I know there's people online, there's pastors online. I think there's pastors from the pulpit who would take that and say, you know, this actually is, no, this is this tracks. God does hate people, he hates his enemies. Oh, yeah, people will absolutely use this to justify that double predestination. Like, you're in, you're out.
Well, not only that, but they'll take it as I've seen, I've seen it done. People will use this, Christians especially, will use this as a permission to hate others, to hate people, because I don't hate. People, I hate God's enemies, just like God hates his enemies. He tells us to hate his enemies. It's written right there: Esau I've hated.
So, yes, you have to hate the enemies of God. I've seen Christians do that. And that is not. biblical that's a that's a poor Exegesis. You have to understand the context.
You have to understand how Paul quotes the Old Testament. Recently, I have seen how. Many times people, scholars, especially from the Reformed perspective, when they come to Romans 9 through 11, they just throw their brains out. They you know, they have an idea of how How New Testament authors have used the Old Testament, but when they come to Romans 9 through 11, all of a sudden it's like, yeah, Paul said that, but he is misquoting. But he's doing it under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
They say that? Paul's misquoting it. Both of you say the Apostle Paul is misquoting under the inspiration. The Holy Spirit is leading Paul to misquoting. To make it confuse us?
No, not to confuse us, to make a point. Oh, got you, got you. Paul meant this, but the Holy Spirit meant something else. No. That Paul has taken an Old Testament reference and completely ignored the context.
and has reused it, but in a whole different way.
So for example Here is a cup, right? This or mug. This is what you use to drink coffee. Great. But I'm gonna pour this out.
and put pens in it and put this coffee mug on the table. Is that what the mug was designed to do? No. No. No, it was designed to be used for liquid, but it's being used to put.
pens and pencils and then placed on a coffee table. They would often say. That's what Paul is doing here.
So nothing wrong. Yeah, you can use it. You can do that, but it's not how it was designed. Yeah, that's what some of the reform scholars will say. Like, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.
What's wrong with that? Do you d does that mean that every time you drink, use a mug, it has to be used for coffee? No. It can be used for Putting pens in it, uh putting pencils in it, uh it can be used to um Put a candle in it. Yeah, I guess my follow-up question to those people would be, what is the gain of doing that?
for the with the word of god If not, to make the word of God say what I wanted to say. Exactly. And I think that's what they're doing with that. When they say these kind of things and say Paul is quoting the Old Testament, but guys, chill, just relax. He is using some echo principle, or he is now Distorting the context, but it's okay.
It's okay. It's not something you can do, it's not something I can do. Because you and I are not Paul. He is. He can do that.
And that's fine.
Well, I have a simple solution. What if he's not doing that? Right. What if Paul wouldn't and shouldn't do that? Right.
What if he is quoting the Old Testament the way Old Testament should be quoted by keeping the original in context intact? Yeah. Keeping the original context, and the only reason you are claiming that Paul is, in a sense, improperly quoting the Old Testament is because you have And Alternate agenda. Right, you need this scripture to get you. to this point.
God is finished with Israel. And that we as Gentiles, the church, has superseded Israel. What is that logical device where you cut away the things that are just. ridiculous that don't make sense. Is it Aachen's razor?
Yeah, I was going to say reform exegesis. Anyway, for those of you who are listening, I am reformed. If you talk about. Justification by grace through faith, absolutely no works involved. You you you have to come Uh with nothing in your hands.
Yeah. And by grace, Through faith, you received you received the gospel. I am not an Arminian.
So sometimes people say, It's like, oh, if you're not reformed, are you some my Pelagian? No, I'm not. Yeah, I must be Arminian. No, I'm not. No, Arminianism has its own problems.
I think a lot more Christians need to think that way. I've said this a lot on the show, but if you're listening for the first time, one of the reasons I really admire Dr. Shah's doctrine and theology is you don't have to, just like you said, if you say, okay, I'm not this, people will say, okay, so you're this. It's like, no, I don't have to be either of those two things. I'm not going to allow you guys, like the crowd or the other, you know, I'm not going to allow the crowd to.
Define the terms of what I have to do. Don't let people do that to you. Don't let them just because you say I am not reformed when it comes to supersessionism. For those of you who don't know what supersessionism means, that is saying that Israel has supersed I mean, the church has superseded Israel. The church has replaced Israel.
Okay. That's that's a major tenet of uh reform theology. I don't go with that. Uh the way I read it? Church hasn't replaced Israel.
Right. Right. But does that immediately make me Non-reformed? No. I don't go along with reform.
Theology in that aspect. Does that automatically make me a semi-Apple agent? That's a good way they'll immediately try to label you. Mm-hmm. I know.
I'm not bringing words. to support my salvation. Does that make me Arminian? No, Arminian is a is has his own problems. No, I don't have to be that.
When it comes to my salvation, I don't have to become those things.
So What is Paul doing here? I guess let's get back to that. Listen to verse 14. This is Romans chapter 10. I'm sorry, chapter 9, verse 14.
What shall we say then? Is there righteous unrighteousness with God? What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Is God playing favorites?
Certainly not. There you go. God does not play favors. For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.
Now, this is a very important passage for us to remember, because now Paul is going to give four evidences. On why God is not being unfair. The first one is. what God said to Moses. I'll have mercy on whom I'll have mercy.
In the context. What was happening? In the context, Israel had just committed the This Gross abomination before God. Mm-hmm. By making a golden calf.
Moses' own brother had aided them, aided and abetted them in building this golden calf while Moses is up on Mount Sinai getting the Ten Commandments from God. God sends him down, he's angry, he breaks the tablets, he is mad at them, and he knows that God's going to kill some of them, and he even begs God's forgiveness. And God said, Please, you know, don't kill them. Take my name, blot my name out of the book of life. But don't abandon your people.
What will people say about you? I mean, he's telling God, Moses is telling God, what will they say about you if you destroy these people? Because they're going to say that this God of theirs. This God of the Hebrews took them out of Egypt and then kill them in the wilderness. Please don't do that.
To that God said, Um In verse 15, I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion. Because Moses was trying to. claim That he was more merciful than God. I don't think he was trying to be arrogant, but it was the implication. It ended up being like that.
He's like, Take my name out. If you're not going to be the merciful God, I'll be merciful. I'll take the job. I'll be the merciful. I'll take the job.
And God's like, don't. Don't do that to me. Yeah. Don't do that to me. And that's when God, in that context, said, I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy.
I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion. Means you do not decide. Whether or not I'm compassionate. You don't get to decide whether or not I'm merciful. I am good there.
You don't have to help me on that, Moses. That's a hard one, I think, for people because that's one of the very that like the second people start debating theology, Christians and non-Christians, people will typically do that. They'll say, Well, I'm going to list out this and this and this and this, and these are all things that are in the Bible. And that just doesn't seem very just or very loving to me. And it's hard to argue with those people because you end up at that same exact spot where it's like, God is justice, God is mercy.
Right. It doesn't have to make sense to me. The only reason we even have those concepts in our heads is because of the character of God. We cannot conceive of justice, of fairness, of love, of compassion, of mercy without God.
So mapping our understanding of those things onto God is the pinnacle of arrogance. And it's crazy because even Moses, who was so close with God, fell into that same trap of being like, God, that's not merciful. What you're doing isn't merciful. It's like. How do you know what merciful is?
I would say he got caught up in the moment. I don't think he intended to teach God a lesson on mercy. Moses knew God. Better than all of us do. He was known as a friend of God.
So I don't think he was trying to do that, but in the moment he. Cross the line. As people do that, and the moment they cross the line, Good intentions, but still cross the line, and you have to go, mmm, that was not right. And I think that's what happened here. Is it That Paul is misquoting?
I don't think so. The whole point Of That quotation from From Deuteronomy, I believe it is, or is it Exodus? I can't be sure. The whole point of that quotation is. At the end of the day I am in charge.
That's right. Not you. Yeah. In Romans chapter Nine. At the end of the day.
I'm in charge, not you. That's right. From Exodus. Right. Exodus, right?
So. Paul is not misquoting. Right. Paul knows exactly what he's saying, and he knows exactly what he's trying to get at. It's us who have trouble.
Getting on board with Paul. Yeah, yeah. Moses is, I mean, Paul is telling the church in Rome and all of us that. God is in charge. Just like Moses should have hushed.
So you need to hush. That's a great point. And you can't really tell people that. I mean, I guess you can, but they never take it well. It's funny because they bring this up: I just don't understand God electing people or saving people.
And then others are like, no, no, no, He does that, and that's exactly what He does. Yeah, at the end of the day. Yeah. When in doubt. T that one.
There you go. Two that one right there.
So. That's the whole point here. That's our first one. We got three more evidence. Yeah.
Look at that. That's right. Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow. We're going to continue this great conversation here on the Clear View Today Show. Thanks again to our sponsors for supporting today's episode, especially LeBlue Ultra Pure Water and Mighty Muscadine.
And don't forget that if you'd like to sponsor the show, you can do that by sending an email to contact at grewviewtodayshow.com. That's right. Or give us a call or text into the show at 252-5825028. We'd love to talk to you some more about sponsorship. Don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes, Spotify, ApplePodcast, Pray.com, anywhere you get your podcasting information.
You can always support us financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give. John, what do you want to close with today? Just want to direct you over to our friends at the Truth Network. That's what this show is syndicated through for all of your East Coast radio. We also have some big news coming out regarding the Truth Network.
But we're going to wait a couple of weeks, make sure we iron out some final details before we let you guys know. But big things are coming, so stick around. That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on the debris today.
