You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. You know one thing I've never thought about before is that we record these episodes in batches, but anybody who watches us online, they're gonna think I've been wearing the same khakis for like four or five days in a row.
I promise you that's not the case. Dr. Shaw, would you let me wear the same khakis four or five days in a row? You can wear them as many times as you can. How many days could I wear a pair of khakis before you start saying something?
If you don't smell them. You just noticed that I'm wearing them two, three weeks in a row, but they're always fresh. I won't say a word. I won't say a word. I mean it's it's there are times that I have worn the same clothes several days in a row because there are It'll be a filming or something like that, so I'll wear the same clothes.
Yeah. Because we have to. You can't. I feel like. With some pants, jeans especially, you get a little bit of legal.
I don't know. There's a little wiggle. I'm not going to say who and embarrass him, but there's a member of our staff who will wear a pair of jeans once and then immediately wash them. Really? Yes.
Yes. I'll tell you off. I'll tell you off, Mike. I didn't know that. That's not good for the jeans, is it?
Doesn't that make him wear out? I don't know. I think that's why his jeans are always pale.
Well, I think that's why he doesn't own a pair of dark jeans. I think they start off as really nice jeans. Anyway, all of this is to say, all of this. All of this is to say, welcome to the Clearview Today Show. We're so grateful that you're here with us, and we're going to introduce our host, Dr.
Abadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament and textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author. Full-time pastor and the host of today's show. Dr. Shaw, good to see you. Thank you.
It's good to be here. Amen. Look to see the show. Jeans are looking nice. Thank you.
Your jeans always look immaculate.
So I got to say, you always wear like really nice dark jeans. I don't know how you keep them dark. Anytime I wear dark jeans within a year or so, they're pale.
Well, so I have different sets of jeans. This one is one of my more dressier jeans, so I don't wear them as often. Gotcha.
So that's why they stay dark. Gotcha.
But then I have some others who do. Fade over time. Yeah, true. It kind of fades out. Jeans do that.
I need to. Yeah, I need to do that. I need to get that kind of thing where, like, I have dress jeans. Yeah. And then I just have jeans.
Because I end up getting my jeans and they're really nice, but then I get excited. Then you wear them, Abaja. And then with my shoes. I get new shoes. I've been wearing these on clouds and I was really excited about them, took them to Greece, and I've just been wearing them ever since.
Now they're going to get tore up. And they get a hole in the heel. Dr. Shah's sister has been really roasting me about my shoe game lately. Really?
Because I wear my shoes out until they get tore up. And then I'll wear my shoes here. And she told me, she said, you need to wear better shoes than that. You can't wear those on a Sunday morning. You don't need to.
She's going to make sure you're looking right. Oh, yeah. Lynn's going to help me out.
Well, guys, just a reminder before we get started, make sure that you are following Dr. Shaw on Prey Radio. Many of you are already tuned in on Prey.com, and that is wonderful. We are so grateful for you following along, joining us in this Clear View Today show journey. But make sure that you're also following along with Dr.
Shaw on Prey Radio every day, Monday through Friday at 8:30 a.m. You can start your day off right with a dose of the Clear View Today Show. It's only happening through the month of October for right now.
So, Prey is really, really big on metrics. Prey is really big on working with you to try to capture your audience.
So, they have given us a month of Prey Radio to see how many people respond, where they're responding from. They're very, very big on that. We're grateful because Dr. Shaw is the mind of a scholar. Gathering data is one of the things that you do.
And so, it helps us make informed decisions on what do the people want to hear? What do they want to see more of? Absolutely. In our previous show, we talked about that research and how to do research in an AI-dominated world now, you know, how to do independent. And research.
So hopefully our people are taking advantage of what we have. Absolutely. Absolutely. The month of October, you can consider it a big experiment with Prey Radio. Every single weekday, 8:30 a.m.
That's on the East Coast. You'll have to get that. If you're on the Mountains Coast or the Pacific Coast, you just got to do some of the math. The Mountains Coast? The Mountains Coast.
That's the Mountains Coast. What is it? Pacific time, Mountains Coast. What are the four time zones? East Coast?
Well, if you're in the Mountains, you're not on the coast. What are the four time zones? There's so there's Eastern. Yeah. There's Central.
Yeah. There's Mountain. Mountain, and the Pacific is the west coast. Hey, Dr. Shah, I got a question for you.
Yeah. Have you ever forgotten the four times on? No, I'm just joking.
So I heard that. I heard through the grapevine. that you had a very awkward encounter at the gym this morning. I did. And I wanted to give you the opportunity to share this experience with millions and millions of listeners.
So sometimes, you know, things like that happened.
So I don't even know if we should talk about it, but I think we can. I think we can.
So the gentleman began to talk to me about his uh health issues. Thinking, I'm a doctor. I wonder how come. Yeah, I wonder why. That's why I'm not a Doctor, like in a medical field, I was going to head in that direction, and then I ended up coming to America.
I didn't go into all the details, but I ended up going into the ministry. He said, Oh, okay, okay. You just look like one of my doctors. I said, Okay.
So he didn't know you as Dr. Abadan Shah. He just. Saw you as a random person, as a random Indian person. Yeah, and he thought I was a medical doctor.
So, let me ask you this: I've always wanted to ask people this, and I get too scared to ask them. When you do, when people say that to you. Is there Part of you that's like offended, or is that part of you being like, eh, people in ignorance say silly things? Yeah, I mean, just that's how I see it. I don't look at it as almost ignorance or.
or or silly things. I I see it more as ah, they're just Trying to be friendly.
Okay, okay. They're trying to be friendly. Stumbling a little. Yeah, and then they. Mm-hmm.
Just Want to be nice.
So he said, You look like one of my doctors. And then you told him, No, I'm not that kind of doctor. But I am a doctor. Right. I told him I teach theology.
So. in a sense I am, but in a different watch. Oh, okay, but he ended up telling me his story anyways. And then when it came some some kind of discrepancy is going on between hi uh him and the The miracle. world and he's gonna Sue them or whatever.
I was like, Okay, okay. You know, and then I said, Well, what's your name again? Uh-huh. Because he asked me my name, so I told him my name. I was like, What's your last name?
Oh, I can't tell you that. Oh, I thought that was the funniest thing. I said, Oh, okay. Is that because you look too much like some of the. I'm just trying to be, I'm just, you know, I'm just being protective here.
You know, I was like, okay. I was like, so at that point, it moves from: okay, this was sort of a. It's kind of harmless. It's kinda silly. Harmless, kind of racially, not racially charged, but it's kind of like a harmless little social faux pas to, okay, now I think we're getting into it.
I think we're getting it into somewhere that might be problematic. I'm uncomfortable. Like, I'm uncomfortable with that. I just kind of ignored it. But it was kind of.
Odd. Is that is that rare or is that kind of common? Oh, that was rare. That's rare. That part was rare when he said, I can't tell you my last name because you may just know.
some of those people who look like you. I said, oh, okay. I hope that works out for you, man. Because India is like the most India's like the most densely populated country on the planet, right? But all but you might know these one or two specific people.
Me yeah, who are happen to be doctors here in America. That's pretty stinking funny. I don't know him.
Sometimes people, I feel like the gym is one of the worst places for this. People just say, they don't know what to say.
So they just. They don't handle themselves well. Like, it's just like a breeding ground for awkward conversations.
Well, my motivation was because he asked me my name. I told him, even where I work and all that. Right. You know, because he was like, okay.
So I thought it was going to be discourteous to ask him. Yeah, which is the name of the name. The reason I asked the last name is because. Was he from around here? Right, right.
So I may know him. And he said, no, I was born and raised here, but then I moved away, but I came back.
So I was gonna say You know, you wanna make make connections with people.
So maybe his last name may trigger some memory of somebody else I know with that last name that I can say, Oh, do you know so-and-so? Mm-hmm. So That was my motivation. I don't know if it's like this in all gyms everywhere. I suspect it is, but I know at least for our gym, there's definitely a morning crowd and there's a night crowd.
Like, the morning crowd is like, we're going to talk, we're going to be friends. We're going to exchange names. I'm going to see you every single morning.
So, we may as well go ahead and be friends. Night crowd is like, don't approach me. Don't look at me. Don't look at me wrong. If I need you to spot, I'll come find you.
Other than that, don't talk to me. Yeah. And that's the night crowd. Yep. And never the two mix.
Well, so great point because I was in that night crowd for like. A couple years. Yeah. And here recently, taking Gavin to school, I've had to start going in the morning. And boy, it's an adjustment.
Because like I'll be I'll be taking a rest and someone will be like, Hey, so how you doing? How are things? I've not seen you here before I'm like, Oh yeah, man, it's it's all good. But even like people from the church, I'm so used to like putting AirPods in and ignoring people at the gym. Then I have church people coming up and talking to me like Oh, I've got to like switch modes in my mind.
Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Well, note to.
Word to the wise. If you are going to make conversation, make some good conversation. There you go. And don't. Don't do silly things.
You've actually used the gym as a witnessing point for people to talk about Christ a lot. You know, a lot of the stories that I hear about you actually witnessing to people and talking to people about Jesus are in the gym. Right. And I and I try to uh make sure every conversation has something about God, more specifically about Jesus Christ at least.
So Never know. Maybe that may be the draw. For them to come to Christ. Yeah. There's definitely at least one or two people I can think of who come here.
Pretty regularly because you've talked to the DM. Yeah, I can think of like. Three people right now. Yeah. And that's that's a good, I feel that's a good motivation, not just for the gym, but for everyday life.
Like, right, every conversation that you have. Probably ought to work Jesus in at some point.
Well, I like how you said that, Dr. Shaw, because people, especially in the South, people have a pretty easy time saying, Man, God is good. God's good. But when you narrow it down to get more specific, hey, Jesus saved my life, that's a very different conversation. And that's what I want to make sure I always leave with is the name of Jesus.
That's right. Or how he has changed my life, or man, he, you know, people need Jesus. That's right. I bring it to something like that because just a generic God loves us, or may I keep you in prayer? That's great.
If that's all you can do, that's great. But if you can go a little further, Go a little further. That's right. Well, speaking of good conversations, I think this is going to be a doozy today. Absolutely.
Let's start out with the verse of the day. The verse of the day today is coming to us from Romans chapter 9, verse 1. I tell the truth in Christ. I am not lying. My conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart.
Dr. Shaw, we've been looking forward to getting back to the book of Romans. People have been actually messaging us on pray and on the through the text number asking if we were going to continue Romans or if we were done with Romans. But, you know, you preached this message this past weekend, and we saw how Paul has such this immense sorrow in his spirit for the Jewish people. And I was thinking about it after you preached it, even though it was that same system that he went through that turned him into.
I would say not a very nice person, but even though he came out of that system, he still had a sorrow for his people. That's right. He's not thrown them away. That's right. Because, and again, this is a tough thing to understand, but it's one we do need to understand.
That when we study the book of Romans, we look at the context. And how do we find the context? We find the context based on sort of like a mirror reading. We go back and look into the book of Romans for clues that help us understand what Paul was driving towards? What was his point?
What was he trying to convince his readers or his listeners? And one thing that. A lot of scholars have come to the conclusion is that Paul wrote Romans to bring unity in the church in Rome. The church that was divided between Jewish background, Gentile background, believers, Paul wanted to help them come together as believers in Christ. While at the same time also maintaining the distinction between Israel and the church.
That's what most scholars Believe that this is the purpose for the book of Romans. I think it also has a higher, deeper purpose, but I think this is on the surface a good one to go by. And so when we read that. Read the book of Romans with that understanding and we come to Romans chapter nine through eleven. That's where we see Pause.
Hard In writing this letter, he wants. The listeners Which may be Gentiles, but also Jewish background people. He wants them to understand: hey, God still has a purpose for ethnic Israel. Mm-hmm. Because in Romans 9 through 11, Paul quotes, like, I may be wrong, but about 30 times from the Old Testament.
Just in those three chapters. Just in those three chapters, nine, ten, eleven. Wow. Douglas Moo, who wrote a commentary on the book of Romans, he said that one-third of all of Paul's quotations from the Old Testament are found right here in these three chapters. Wow.
That's incredible.
Now, you and I know Paul quotes from the Old Testament a lot.
So one-third of all are right here? That's a lot of quotations. And that ought to direct our attention here. I mean, we ought to pay extra special attention to what Paul's talking about here. I think a lot of times people look at Paul and they look at Peter and they think, okay, well, Peter was going to the Jewish people.
Paul was headed to the Gentiles. And they sort of oversimplify their mission into those two categories. Yes, they do. Uh in fact, maybe that's a conversation for another time. But the ho the whole um our understanding of Who were the two groups in the church?
Mm-hmm. Jewish background, Gentile background, even that may not be sufficient. It may that in fact that may not be very accurate. There were The There were more grey areas there. More overlap.
Mm-hmm. More categories. Right. I think there was probably ABCD and E. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
So there you have. Gentile background person, maybe that's just one category. Um then there could be a Gentile background person Who was also a God-fearer. But now had come to Christ, you know, they have a different understanding. They had an appreciation for the Old Testament.
And from that source, they came to Christ. The Ethiopian eunuch was sort of like that. He had come to the temple in Jerusalem to worship. And now he was headed back home. I would put him as a God fearer.
But not A Jewish person, of course, but a God-fearer who came to Christ. But then there were also Jewish people who were not, I mean, I'm sorry, Gentile people who were not God-fearers, but they just came to Christ. People In the book of Athens, I mean, book of Athens, in the book of Acts, when Paul was in Athens. They were not God-fearing Gentiles. They were people in the Agora.
They were people. On the Areopagus, who Heard Paul's message, Acts chapter 17, and they came to Christ. They did not go through the Old Testament to come to Christ. They came to Christ. That's a different category.
How about Jewish people? You had Jewish people who were um more Hebrew background. What does that mean, Hebrew background? Means they were more from. From Jerusalem area.
Mm-hmm. Different. Jewish people more from Galilee. Different. Diasporic Jewish people.
those in Greece or Parthia or Babylon or Egypt. Different background, Jewish people. Paul was a diasporic Jewish person. Different background. Mm-hmm.
So For us to just put them all in one category. That's that's not very accurate. Right, right.
And then there were people in the church who were um false brethren. Judaizers They would come in, and you know, Paul talks about them coming in as in like in stealth. They would come in claiming the name of Christ, but they were trying to take people back into circumcision. Mm-hmm. That's a whole different category.
Right. That's true. A bad category. Right. But a whole different category.
Yeah, you wouldn't just lump them in with the Jewish people. Right, because many of those Jewish people were not interested in infiltrating the Christian movement and then taking people to circumcision. Right. They were like. I I don't know.
It's it's a sect. But they were not out there to persecute everybody. Right, right.
That's a different group.
So, if we really spend time studying these different groups, you realize There are many layers here.
Well, you kind of have to do that, don't you? Because now we're getting into Romans 9, right? Like, whereas everything in Romans 6, 7, 8. Do you find that people will falsely separate them? Yeah, I don't think that's a good way to break.
put a break between Romans chapter 8 and 9. Right. Because Paul, I don't think, saw that as a As a break. Right. Uh You know, we talk about verses and chapter divisions.
Chapter divisions came through a man by the name of Stephen Langton, who was a scholar. Archbishop of Canterbury in England, who Came up with these verse chapter divisions. And boy, he did a great job. If you really look at him, Yeah. You know, amazing.
Some places, I mean, he perfectly ends it at the end of a discussion, beginning of a new one. I mean, great job. But then there are places that it hasn't helped us, it has hurt us, right? Because Romans chapter 8 ends with. Nothing can separate us from the love of God and Christ Jesus our Lord.
I tell the truth in Christ. I am not lying. Like like Paul went to bed that night. And the next morning he got up and said, you know what? I think I need to talk about this.
Well, so even though I knew the point you were making, I think we're so westernized, especially with like novels and fiction and stuff, that even just hearing you describe it like that, I felt the separation in my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're kind of built to think in terms of chapters because it's like this is a thought and it is enclosed. Right.
And it's part of a larger story, but this is an enclosed thought. Whereas the chapter divisions in our Bibles were not there originally. They were not there. Yeah. Paul may have not even.
dipped into the ink pot, For Fresh ink to start chapter 9, verse 1. I think he probably was continuing. Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. I tell the truth in Christ. I tell the truth in Christ.
I'm not lying. My conscience also bears me witness in the Holy Spirit. I mean, he is still rolling.
So we need to make sure we recognize that. That these chapter divisions sometimes are not very helpful. Yeah. Yeah. He says that too.
He says, I've got great sorrow in my heart. Like he's still. I think we have painted this picture of Paul where he was so sold out for Christ that he completely abandoned the Jewish people. And he was like, nope, that's wrong. I'm on the right path for Christ, and that's where my life is.
But then you come to Romans 9, where he says, no, I have this really deep sorrow for my people. And if you look at the context, I think Paul was setting it up to explain how much God loves us, and nothing can separate us. Neither death nor life. principalities nor powers, nor Anything Past or present or future, nothing can separate us. nor height nor depth nor any other created thing.
I mean, he's giving all these um Descriptions to help us understand that nothing can separate us. Why is he saying that?
Now we typically apply that to our lives. Like as I'm going through a difficult time. No matter how low I feel, no matter how separated I may feel from. life or joy or peace, God is still loving me through Christ. But in the context, what he's saying is Even if right now the Jewish people, his people, collectively seem dead, to Christ Even though His people, the Jewish people, seem to be more Like serving the enemy.
principalities and powers. You get what I'm saying? It seems like they are separated from God. That hasn't happened. It's stretching my mind.
Seriously. It's stretching my mind to have to recontextualize something that I've heard for years and years and years and years and then realize that Paul was more than likely saying something very different. Yeah, he was saying that. Yes, it applies to you, but I'm going for a Bigger issue here. The issue is.
Because As a nation, Israel has rejected, or the Jewish people have rejected their Messiah. Does that mean that God is through with them? Go back and listen to the last part of Romans 8. Neither height nor depth. nor any other created thing can separate us.
From the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. I tell the truth. uh in Christ. means I am in Christ. They may not be, but I am in Christ.
So, what I'm about to tell you is not as a Christian. Christian or as a Jewish person or a ex-Jewish person. No, I am in Christ. What am I saying? That my heart is broken for them.
That changes the end of Romans 8 to less of a, just sort of a. Platitude that we like to live by, someone we hold up, like that we cling to, it gives us hope. And much, it gives it a much bigger. Uh application. A much bigger trajectory in our understanding of God and how He's interacting with His people and His plans, His future plans for Israel.
Right. And I mean, and what does He say? He uses like these three sets of doublets, right? The first one is, I tell the truth in Christ, I'm not lying. That's the first set.
My conscience also bearing witness in the Holy Spirit, second doublet, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. Third set of doublets. And what is it what is your point, Paul? What are you trying to say with so much earnestness? And so much passion.
For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren.
So all this time that he has spent in the last part of Romans chapter 8 to tell us that we are in Christ and nothing can be can separate us from Christ, Paul says, I wish I could be separated from Christ. for their sake. I think that's very convicting in a lot of ways. I think there's a lot of people right now who are. Very critical of the Jewish people.
They're very critical of the nation of Israel as it exists today, and maybe even as it's always existed. And they'll stand on the Bible. Yeah. Whereas the Bible itself, Paul is saying, you know, look, I love them so much that if I could, I'd give up my own salvation for them. Yeah, that I am in Christ and I'm loved by Christ.
Nothing can separate me. But if I could, I would separate myself so that they could come in. I can almost guarantee there's probably not a soul alive today who would say that. Maybe there's one here or there, but I doubt it. I doubt it.
And even if we did, we don't mean it. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. But I think Paul meant it.
Yes. I mean, those three sets of doublets tell the truth in Christ. I'm not lying. My conscience also bears me witness in the Holy Spirit. Mm-hmm.
And I have great sorrow. It's not looking like, man, I'm I'm kind of I'm kind of down. Yeah. You're right.
Sort of bummed. I'm just having a sad day. Yeah. It's rainy today. Continual grief in my heart.
Continual grief means it's not just like an occasional, like, eh. No, continual grief means every time he saw Jewish people, whether it was in Asia Minor or whether he saw them in In Greece or in Corinth, or he saw them in Jerusalem at the temple. He was so heartbroken to see. To see those families, individuals. Um walking about And have no understanding of the Messiah.
And he's thinking. Uh man. the one you are looking for Hoping for and believing in has come, but you're rejecting him. Do you think Paul foresaw this separation of the Jewish people from Christians? Because he's not just saying, Wish I would accursed for my brethren.
He says, My countrymen according to the flesh who are Israelites. Do you think he foresaw this like... division, I guess. like between like Christianity and what would become Judaism. I mean, it was already there.
Yeah. I would say it has already begun. Gotcha.
By this time. the parting of the ways has happened. If he would have considered himself at one time when he was Saul, an enemy of. The way, the followers of the way, there is already that. distinction in those two groups.
Yeah, recently I came across an article titled When Christians Were Jews. Mm-hmm. Talking about the early church that first church, the first generation I mean they were all Jewish. Right. Peter, Paul, John, James, all Mary Magdalene, they were all Jewish people, right?
Um So But right then and there, there were some who followed, and many didn't. There was a parting of the ways that had already begun. And there was a lot of sorrow. You see that coming out. On the day of Pentecost when Peter gets up and he preaches that powerful sermon.
And calls people to repentance, and many do come. I mean, the church grew by leaps and bounds with who? Indians, Anglo Saxons, Africans? No, they were Jewish people. Yeah.
That was the early church. And the ones who didn't receive it. receive the gospel. Parting of the ways. Yeah.
They went their way, and now all of a sudden there was a break. Yeah. How should we as believers? I don't know, we're coming to the end of the show. How should we, as believers, as the church today, think about and stand with?
The nation of Israel.
So, one thing I would say, personal application, I hope you and I have the same kind of brokenness for our own families. True. the way Paul talks about his people. His countrymen according to the flesh. I hope we have the same heart for average everyday Americans.
A brokenness for our People. Good point. Yeah, it's easy to get frustrated by our people. It's easy to get frustrated, especially in America where you've seen like the other side of the aisle. It's easy to get frustrated and rush right them off.
I do that. I can't say in full honesty right now that I have the same broken heart that Paul does. Yeah. So for your family, or just for fellow Americans, or for people around us, whether they're Americans or not. We should have a heart for them.
I would also add Then going a little step further in this application, I have a heart for the Jewish people. Mm-hmm. If Paul had that heart, not just for anybody, but for the Jewish people, we should have the same heart for them. That's right. You know, when Jesus gave the great commission, go into all Jerusalem.
What we have done is we made it into our immediate radius, like my community. Judea My state. Samaria. other states. Like the whole Country of the United States, uttermost parts of the world.
Oh, that's where. C countries like Uganda or India or or uh Honduras or Ukraine comes in. No. That's true. You can you can apply it that way.
But that's not what Jesus meant. Right. Jerusalem meant Go to the Jewish people first. Go to the capital first, Judea. Go to the surrounding area of Jerusalem second.
Samaria means now go to people Who are to the northern part of Jerusalem, who are Samaritans? Make sure we don't forget them because they also need. Christ. uttermost parts of the earth. means now begin to Go beyond that into Galilee and into Egypt and into Babylon and to Syria and Asia Minor and Greece and Rome and Spain and all that, start going everywhere.
That's right. That's what Jesus May. That's right. Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow. Same time, same station.
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