You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abinan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and welcome to the Clear Read Today Studio. We are here with our host, Dr.
Abadan Shah, who's a PhD and New Testament textual criticism professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, we wanted to finish out the week on a strong note, but unfortunately, we got a text today from you. Talking about the loss of another prominent Christian figure in this Dr. James Dobson.
That's right. Yeah, he is a very well-known figure in child psychology and, of course, also family psychology, and was very prominent, especially in the 80s and the 90s. But he still had a big ministry up until recent. For those of us who might have never heard of Dr. James Dobson, of course, we've all heard and familiar with his work.
But just for our listeners out there, who was he? What was he best known for?
Well, he was best known for giving biblical or Christian advice on a lot of family marriage and children issues and family relationships. And of course, you may not agree with everything. I didn't. But overall, it filled a vacuum at a time when people were searching for some. Good solid wisdom on how to raise your family in an increasingly secular or even anti-Christian, anti-biblical values culture.
So lots and lots of people really appreciated him. I heard his show and I used to listen to the show back in the 90s.
So Focus on the Family was a show. Yes. Gotcha. Gotcha. I can remember riding with my parents and listening to Focus on the Family in the car.
And, you know, just his heart to see families met with biblical wisdom, biblical advice. Dr. Shai, I know that mirrors your heart as well and the work that we do here at Clearview is to reach families in a world that is trying to offer them any and every solution other than the Bible and even that it's trying to break down the family unit.
Well, the hardest thing is to stay strong and stay firm on biblical values at the same time adapting to the culture that we're in.
So how can you still give solid advice without compromising? And yet be gracious to understand that some things do change with time.
So, should people dress like the Puritans did back in the day to have Christian biblical values? I would say no. You can still have biblical values without having to keep the wardrobe of, say, the 18th or the 17th century.
So, there are certain things you have to go, you know, times have changed. We're moving with the times. And at the same time, certain foundational values do not change. You know, that reminds me of our verse of the day, which is actually coming to us from Philippians chapter 1 and verses 22 through 24. Ryan, do you want to read that for us?
Sure. It says, But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor. Yet what shall I choose? I cannot tell. For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.
Nevertheless, to remain in the flesh is more needful for you. You know, I can see that, like where you're coming towards the end of your life, and Paul is sort of seeing, like, you know, I would be. Completely fine. If I went on to heaven, if I went on to be with glory, I would be much, far better off. But it's better for you that I remain.
And I imagine that people like James Dobson and who have these really, really influential ministries at some point have to confront that same reality: like, listen, I want, I'm ready to go. Yeah. But at the same time, my work here is not done. The culture around me, just like you were saying, Dr. Shaw, the culture and the society around me are denigrating.
They're breaking down. That's right. And what it needs is what I'm providing through God's grace. Unfortunately, what we have seen over the past few decades is once certain Individuals that God has raised to speak to the church, once they are called home, there's no one there to replace them. There's a vacuum.
And so, unfortunately, you have the wrong voices that will try to fill that vacuum, giving wrong advices, and it actually is to the detriment of the family. And so, Dr. James Dobson, for a long time, was that good, solid voice. And again, I want to clarify: you may not agree with everything that he said, and that's fine to do. Who do you agree with on every matter?
Exactly. Right, so there may be some things people may say, I don't care for this part, or I don't care for his views on discipline, or I don't care for his views on you know, whatever.
Okay, I hear you. We're not trying to line up every single doctrinal views and then. Fine blessing. Through their advice, we're simply saying, Hey, they were a big source of blessing to a lot of people on many issues. Yeah, that's a great point.
And you brought up the point as well: who else is speaking in that space? Who else is a voice that you would, okay, if not Dr. James Dobson, then who else are you listening to? I mean, for many years, he was kind of the only voice in the game. That's right.
And, you know, being a monumental voice out there and impacting the ministry in this way, especially in like family and children, just because you're making a huge impact and we want to recognize and acknowledge that impact doesn't mean that we're saying that these people are infallible. You know, they're still Christians. They're still people. And so I think, you know, one of the things that we really value on this show is being able to disagree with some of those views. But the disagreements are not ever what we focus on.
You know what I mean? You know, it's much more beneficial, I think, for our audience to point out the things that he did get right and the things that he stood for that the Bible also stands for. We can always talk all day about what we disagree with, but at the end of the day, I really don't know. Who that serves. It might be entertaining to listen to, but I don't know who it serves.
That's right. That's right. Other than focus on the family, is there another big major work that Dr. Dobson is known for?
Well, he's known for his books. I mean, he wrote several books that are in my library.
Some of them I inherited from Nicole's father and her family.
Some of them were even in my dad's library back in India. Books like The Dare to Discipline or The New Dare to Discipline, The New Strong Will Child. And again, you may not agree with everything. I don't either because some understandings have changed. You don't try to break their will.
You try to work with them. But at the same time, you are trying to do the best you can with what you know to raise your family. Bringing up boys, bringing up girls, when God doesn't make sense. These are just some of the books that he wrote. And they were.
Very, very popular. And he was a big presence in Washington as well, right? He was an advisor to a couple of U.S. presidents. Oh, absolutely.
Yeah. He was on several councils with, I think, President Reagan, President Bush, even President Trump. I think in his first term, maybe. Yeah. I think he was.
So, yeah, he did, if I'm not wrong, at least five presidents were, you know, used his services on some executive board. Yeah. And that's definitely a testament to the impact that you make in the. Was he a pastor? No, he was not a pastor, but he sort of became the family pastor to hundreds of thousands of couples all across the United States and even the world.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but you have that ministry and you have that drive to bring these biblical truths. And I think that's even more impressive, honestly, to not be a pastor.
You have that full scope of your attention is on your biblical writing and your biblical ministry. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. What led?
To the establishment of Focus on the Family? What inspired him to capitalize on this lack of a biblical presence in the family realm?
So, this is going back to 1977 is when Focus on the Family was birthed. And he, I mean, he has a doctorate in psychology from the University of Southern California. And he felt like God was leading him in this direction with daily broadcasts. And so, he founded this organization, Focus on the Family, that went on to. influence a lot of people and pastors were very grateful.
I mean, most of them I would say.
Some may have Taking an issue here and there. But overall, most pastors are very grateful to recommend their members. To somebody reliable.
So you could be like, hey, so listen to focus on the family. There's some good stuff there. Or listen to Focus on the Family about parenting. He was a resource for people. He was a great resource that you can recommend to.
You know, that's one thing. Lots and lots of pastors struggle with is recommending their church member to somebody they can trust. Why do you think that is? Just these days, you mean? Specifically, I would say in the past four decades, it is difficult.
Wow. Because you never know what someone believes. You know, he was very strong on the gender issues against homosexuality and those kind of things.
So. Um you could trust him and s to know that he was not gonna mislead Your young people, or somebody struggling with homosexuality, he was not going to mislead them.
So it was someone. You could recommend His writings. Do you think problems within the American family unit in the seventies? Were lesser or just different than the problems that we have today? I think they were so.
Pioneering in a wrong sense. You know, they were just coming out. Previous boundaries were being torn down. You know, some of, of course, when it comes to racism, that's what we agree. You know, those don't need to be there.
But then there were other boundaries that were also being broken down, especially with regards to marriage and gender and sexuality. And so. People did not know how to respond to that. That generation Okay, the generation coming out of World War II did not know how to respond to their young people Who have a very different perspective. And that very different perspective is coming from what they're learning in the colleges.
That's a great point. I wouldn't have ever thought about that. But in this spirit of revolution, in this, we're gonna take the establishment and do away with it.
Some of those boundaries, like you said, with racism, were things that needed to be abolished. They needed to be done away with. But in this, I guess, steamroll of breaking boundaries, there are some boundaries that get crossed that. Boundaries are meant there to be there for a reason.
Well, it is interesting that you say that because I would think of people like my parents. You know, my parents are pretty straight-laced, conservative, Christian people. And so I think through the way they would look at the world today, where they would see all these transgender issues, all these homosexual issues, all these gender issues that are going on that are so flamboyant and so colorful and in your face. And they would say, This is a, when I was growing up, the world was not this way. And yet, these issues were going on in the 70s.
Maybe were they hidden? Were they less obvious? Or was it just they were so new people didn't know how to deal with them, so they just didn't.
Well, those issues have been with us in American cultural society for some time.
Okay. Really, I would say these issues became public back in the late 1800s. Really? Oh yeah, back in the late eighteen hundreds these issues were coming to the surface. With homosexuality and with transgenderism.
They were coming to the surface even back then. But thank goodness for revivals and awakenings and things like that, that some of those things sort of were mitigated because the culture was still very Judeo-Christian value focused as America was seeing more immigration. You know, some of those values were being challenged, but they were being challenged from other Judeo-Christian Value holders.
So let's say the Irish came here. They were more Catholic.
So they challenged certain Protestant beliefs. But basically, when it came to moral and sexuality, or morality and sexuality, they were. The same as Protestants. No problem.
So it sort of curbed some of those um Some of those outliers. But then when you get into the 1920s and 30s, they began to come to the surface again. And I mean, that generation was very flamboyant. I didn't realize it went that far back. Oh, yeah, 1920s and 30s, it became very flamboyant.
And that's when prohibition was hitting the scene. And so that was also sort of wrapped into that: that as we're hiding alcohol, we're also hiding our certain. You know, behaviors and and lifestyles.
So that was also big then. But again, it was sort of curbed. As World War I and World War II happened, so they're. Bigger things to deal with. There's ebbs and flows of this issue rising and falling beneath the surface.
But then, when immigration laws changed, okay, we're going back to the 50s, 60s, where more and more people were coming who did not have the Judeo-Christian value system, same kind of morality.
Now you had an influx of people. who disagreed with you even on on sexuality.
Okay, and so now all of a sudden your your students are hearing in colleges about socialism. Are you hearing about feminism? Are you hearing about Of course, homosexuality and things like that. And so In the 60s, 70s, these issues came up, but there was no curbing them. Do you think that's the reason?
So it's not that these issues surfaced for the first time in the 60s and 70s, but because the response, whereas there was usually something to curb it, something to put it back down. In the 60s and 70s, that didn't happen. It didn't happen. There were movements like the Jesus movement and others, and they were great, but they were sort of like, hey, look, we're going to focus on loving you because you need to be loved. You need compassion.
So they were not as forthright. I'm not saying nobody was, because there were people who were forthright, and they stood against things like this. on a wholesale whole scale, um, I would say Many people were not.
So the reason that in the twenty twenties one of the reasons I would say in the twenty twenties that we're dealing with it in such a flamboyant, in your face, like hard to put down issue is because there was no Curbing in the 70s, 60s, 70s. Yeah. And I mean, there has been with people like Dr. James Dobson. And, you know, he also helped start the Family Research Council and other organizations like that.
That helped. Good. Deal with some of these issues in the church body. But Again, not As many voices, and then the culture was also moving towards the left, and now the colleges were firmly entrenched in leftist. philosophies.
So a lot of people coming out of schools You know, they abandon the value system they grew up with. Yeah, sort of an indoctrinating thing happening. Yeah. Not just socialist doctrine indoctrination, but also anti-Christian value indoctrination. Like, who gives you the right to tell them how they can live?
Who says that your way of a man and woman for life is right? Who says that children need to be corrected and disciplined? Like he believed in corporal punishment, right? Dr. James Dobson.
Now, you may disagree with that or whatever. That's up to you. Sure. Okay. Who gives you the right to to spank a child?
How dare you?
So when things like this are are happening. you know, most voices go along with it. Other than, say, a James Dobson. Do you see after people like James Dobson focus on the family, others who are kind of these voices, albeit? maybe quieter ones or more scattered ones, when these values have been so entrenched for so long and they've become so prevalent for so long.
Do you see another side of this sort of wave of Transgender, homosexuality, LGBTQ emphasis, liberal values. Do we see another side to that curve yet? Or is that still to come? I think it's happening now. I think it's happening now.
But the challenge is Greater than it has ever been in the past generations. Because when, let's just say, this wild grass has been allowed to grow like a kudzu. It's not just a little hill here and a little trench there. It's like the entire hillside is covered with kudzu.
So even if you are.
Now seeing more support for Judeo-Christian principles and values, but it's so much more ground to clear. Yeah. It's far more territory to clean up.
So it's tougher now. Do you see anyone rising to fill that vacuum that we would, like someone that we would want in that position? Or do you feel like he's left a vacuum that's going to be filled by the wrong people? Um. I don't know.
I mean, there are people here and there who do talk about these issues, but like I would put. Dennis and Barbara Rainey in that group. But again, they're also sort of passing the baton.
So those are some of those people that we've looked up to. That fit our generation more, Dennis and Barbara Rainey.
So who is coming up next. You have a lot of marriage advisors, like how to. How to fix your um Your differences in a marriage or how to solve your problems, but not as much as this is what makes for a Christ-honoring marriage. Very few. I think you're right.
And I think that's one of the things, and maybe you can kind of speak to this: is that. Even in the 60s and 70s, I don't see a James Dobson type as being really concerned about what's hip, what's going to appeal to the most amount of people. This is just the truth, and I'm going to stand on the truth. And I feel like now. Like, even Christian marriage counselors, there's an image to protect.
There's, there's a, there's a marketing side to this where I want to say what's going to appeal to the most amount of people. Yes, on the surface, I want to quote unquote help people and I want to stick true to the Bible, but really, what I'm interested in is getting as much appeal as possible. Um, and I don't. think that's going to make a lasting impact for marriages and families. Does that make sense?
Oh, it definitely, I think. And plus, uh, we're living in a different culture, different time where Where the where we're people Think I can't tell you how to live. I can't. I mean, what gives me the right to tell you how to live? Oh, you can't tell me how to live.
Mm-hmm. You know, that's a very different mindset. In the 90s, in the 80s, it was like: please tell us how to live. Not everybody agree would agree with you. Not everybody wanted to be told.
Of course, we know that. But most people, especially in the Christian realm, would be like, please tell us. Please give us advice. And now, in a church setting, you will see a lot of people like that, but not everybody's like that. You know, what's interesting to me is we have this spirit of you can't tell me what to do, don't tell me how to live, who are you to tell me this?
But how many of those same people get life advice and relationship advice and even spiritual advice from social media, from TikTok, from somebody on their algorithm? How many are turning there for answers when the church offers those answers or when somebody from a biblical perspective offers some advice? They're like, Don't tell me how to live. It's weird because I think those, like I would even, I would even take that a step further. I think those same exact people who would say, the church can't tell me, the Bible can't tell me, no one tells me how to live my life.
I think those same exact people are always in therapy. They're always going to therapists and counselors and paying money to have people tell them how to live. I think it's an authority thing. Maybe Dr. Sha, you can speak to that too.
I think it's this idea that if you're telling me what to do, you must be my dad. You must be my boss, and I will not have another dad. I won't have another boss. I won't have a master. I won't have any of that.
Yeah, I mean, that's the culture in which we live now. You can't tell me how to live. You cannot, you're not the boss of me. You want to be my friend? Then you should.
Validate. How I feel. You should validate who I am. You should validate my struggles, my trauma. Don't call it my.
Problem that needs to be fixed. You should simply validate it.
So it's a different culture, different time period. And yeah, it is, I would say, in some ways, it is. A an old problem, but at least. An American Experience There was a sense of, yeah, we need to Change, and yeah, we need to listen to our elders, but it's since the sixties. when the elders themselves are suspect.
They are so-called the source of the problem because you are the gatekeepers who have kept good ideas from coming in and good values from coming in.
So, you are the problem, and we're not coming to you for advice. You should be brought down. And so, you know, it's in some ways we're still seeing the vestiges of that way of thinking. I think you're right. I think your messages, too, that remind us that God has given you a family.
Now, is your earthly family perfect? No. Do your parents make mistakes? Yeah, they're going to make mistakes. And maybe even in the family relationship, there is the source of some of this.
Trauma, the source of some of this dysfunction, the source of some of this strife. But ultimately, God's given you a family for a purpose. And here's how to, here's how the Bible speaks into you having a family. Here's how the Bible speaks into your marriage, your relationship with your kids, parents, and then kids, your relationship with your mom and dad. There's a very real voice out there.
And, you know, God willing, Dr. Shaw, I think you need to be that voice of a move from dysfunction to resiliency, of helping families discard this idea of I'm broken beyond repair. And how do we have a God-honoring family? And how do we deal with our struggles in a way that honors God and cements us together? Absolutely.
I hope so. I feel like theologically we are on a very solid ground. You know, talking about Dr. James Dobson, he came from the Church of the Nazarene, which is more of a Wesleyan holiness type tradition.
So we're not Wesleyan in that sense. Of course, we love John Wesley, but we believe in salvation by grace through faith and eternal security of the believer.
So some of those things I would say would possibly be lacking in his way of thinking. Although. He was very tactful about that. He tried not to get into denominations and individual denominational beliefs. But overall, that's the value.
We come from a value system where. human beings are born dead in trespasses and sins, which I think he agreed with that. We're all dysfunctional. In some ways, I think he would agree with that as well. We also believe that The Holy Spirit begins to work in your life, and as He works in your life, He begins to change and transform you.
Which I think He would also agree with that. But Just know that sometimes uh you know, as human beings we are we are flawed and The things that we struggled with years ago may come back as a struggle today. And it does not mean that you're a bad person. It just means the struggle of sin is real.
So we may not have the platform that focuses on the family head, but Dr. Shah, you've got a massive following on Pray. I mean, we're closing in on 40,000. And by the time we're recording this, we may be at 40,000 followers.
So that's 40,000 people that are potentially listening to this show right now as it's airing. Maybe some of them are on the older side and they remember James Dobson's teaching. Maybe a lot of them are very young and they've not heard of James Dobson. And so if you imagined. doctor Dobson passing you the baton in this moment, what would you say to the forty thousand people who are listening like right now as far as like their family dynamics go?
I would say the family is a very important institution. This is an institution that God has created even before he made the church. And so the family has been under attack. It was under attack in the Garden of Eden. It was under attack after the Garden of Eden.
You see what happened to Adam and Eve and their relationship. You see what happened to Cain and Abel. The murder, the first murder was in the family. And since then, families have been struggling. And so just know that you are in the same struggle that our great, great, great, great grandparents were in.
And we need God's Word. We need encouragement. We need good advice. We need biblically grounded advice.
So Pray that God will. bring people into your life. who will model for you. What biblical marriage looks like. Not a perfect marriage.
There is no such thing. If somebody pretends to have a perfect marriage, they're lying to you. Yeah, that's right. Um Pray that God will bring people into your life who would model Good parenting. Again, there is no perfect parents, but people who are trying.
By God's grace, to raise their children. In God's way.
So pray for that. Encourage your pastor when they preach on marriage and family issues, you know, go tell them, thank you for doing that. Because they're doing it for you. They're doing it so you will find hope and healing in your family. That's right.
Encourage them and ask words. Say, hey, you know, I love it when you preach on marriage and family. I get to hear that a lot. You know, hey, I love it when you preach on marriage and family.
So, Ever so often, you know, I would say maybe every three to four months, I will stop and preach on marriage and families. We just are finishing up a series of things. Yeah, that's true. That's why Nicole was just on the show earlier this week. Yeah, yeah.
That's a good reminder, too, that I mean, Dr. Shah, your heart is to shepherd the congregation here. And that includes those who are listening and those who are viewing this podcast, to shepherd them well and point them toward the truth of what God says about who they are and what their families need to be. And in the wake of a vacuum, there will always be a voice that will rise up. We want it to be the right voice.
And I believe truly, you know, Dr. Shah, in this absence, it'll be yours. And I think God has put us in the position with the platforms that He's put us on, the networks that He's introduced us to, and even the people who are still to come, the people who are listening to this right now, I think that the truth is always going to find its way to the top. And our prayer is through the Clear View Today show that the truth will find its way. Amen.
And I thank you guys for your heart because being in a different generation, a younger generation, you all share the same biblical. Christian values on marriage and family, that is. There is an encouragement, and there is an answer to prayer. Amen. Amen.
Thank you. Thank you. Guys, make sure you join us next week, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible.
Don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast from. And you can also support us financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give. John, what do you want to leave listeners with? Lots of things coming down the pipeline. A couple that I want to highlight.
Number one, make sure you download Dr. Shah's devotional podcast. It's called The Lighthouse: Weekly Devotions with Dr. Abadan Shah. New episodes drop every single Saturday morning at 8 a.m.
Also, we've got a new book coming out in the fall. It's 30 Days of Seeing Christ in Judges. It's a great, it's a fourth edition to our daily devotional, our 30 Days Daily Devotions. And it's basically starting a new sub-series, if I can say that right, within the 30 Days, which is Seeing Christ in the Old Testament. We wanted to start with Judges because obviously it's the most difficult, but it's also the most rewarding.
It's a great, great devotional, and we can't wait for you guys to get your hands on it at this point. That's right. We love you guys. Have a wonderful weekend. We'll see you bright and early on Monday.
Thank you.
