How to Form Biblical Opinions

You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. Happy Taco Tuesday to everybody who is listening today. I did not bring any tacos. So I brought some tacos. I ate them in the car, like in the parking lot.

I ate like 12. This is elementary school rules. You don't bring enough to share with the class.

You don't bring them to class. We have about 10 people on staff. I did bring 12, but unfortunately I ate all 12. I ate 11. I ate 11. I gave myself a little bit of wiggle room. It was 11 or 12.

If I'm being honest, it was 13. Wow. That was really funny. Wow.

Wow. Ladies and gentlemen, we want to welcome our host, Dr. Abbadon Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show, Dr. Shah. And lover of tacos. I do like tacos.

So I will say, Dr. Shah, I'm really glad, because you're a man after my own heart. You really like Mexican food. I do. And you are also willing to eat Mexican food that's not that good to be eating Mexican food. I appreciate that. I'll go along with it. Yeah.

Sometimes I'm like, why am I eating this? It's not good. Well, most of the time, Mexican food that's not that good is better than just not Mexican food. Yes, I agree.

That can work. Mexican food is sort of like Star Wars. It's like even the one, even if it's not that good, it's still great.

It's still Star Wars. Yeah. I'm going to, what am I going to do? Not eat Mexican food. It's really, it's really funny because we like to eat Mexican food a lot. We'll go out to eat at least once or twice a week.

And it's funny because Dr. Shah's wife will be like, are we really eating Mexican food again? And it's like, yes. Yes. Yes. Of course.

Of course. Did you really think we were going to live in a world where we don't go out to eat Mexican food? Also the Mexican food, the turnaround is so fast when you go to a Mexican restaurant.

Well, don't even worry about the turnaround. You sit down to bring your chips in immediately. It's like, why would you not go someplace where the food is there right away? Yeah. Like we're conditioned from the time we're preschoolers on to respond to snacks. So like if you give me a snack, I'm going to keep coming back. That's right.

That's right. And like, like another restaurant, they might give you like a little piece of bread. You eat it and it's gone. But as soon as they see your chips and sauce that you can't beat that. More chips. Oh yes. Yes.

Most chips. Mucho gracias. I was dead.

Dr. Shah. Today's check-in is coming to us from someone on pray.com. This was left as a comment on your, by the way, we're closing on 10,000. We're we're really closing on 10,000. It's really ramped up. Thank you. All of you who are praying are following us on pray.com. Thank you for praying as well. We were in it's, it's become exponential at this point.

Like when we were in New Mexico a couple of weeks ago, not even like two weeks ago, it was at 5,000 and it's closing it on 10 now. So it's almost doubled in two weeks. Praise God. Praise God.

That's the power of, I was going to say that's the power of math, but that's really the power of God. Someone left this comment on your profile and it says, Dr. Shah has a way of making difficult passages in the Bible make sense. This is from Judson W. I appreciate his insights as well as helping us navigate the issues of our world.

Judson W. I do not know what state he left that comment from, but Judson W. if you're listening, thank you for your encouragement. We praise God for that. God's word is so powerful. You can take this word at any time in history and it will apply. Yes. You can take this word to any place in history and it will apply.

You can take this word to any person anywhere in history and it will apply. This is so amazing because it really gets to the heart of our issues, our problems, our need for Christ. And so I'm grateful that people all over are commenting and responding and connecting with us and telling us how much they appreciate this. This is a confirmation that God is working.

So something I wanted to know, and I think a lot of people want to know this, but what, Oh, he's from Mississippi. Very thank you. So when it comes to difficult passages, cause that's something that I often hear from our church members and from people online is that you take difficult passages and make them make sense, which I think is your goal. That's like something that God has placed on your heart.

Right. We, we only see the explanation from you. We only see like the conclusion that God has brought you to, but do you wrestle with this? Like, do you go home?

Do you go home and like pour over these pages? And do you say to yourself, like, what is Paul trying to say? Or do you, is it more that God has gifted you with an, a spirit of just understanding like, okay, I'm, I think this is what Paul is trying to say. And then the spirit kind of shows you, yes, that's right.

Or do you really like wrestle with this and, and have to untangle it? Well, let me back up a little bit. Whatever is difficult for the average person is also difficult for scholars.

Okay. There are scholars who have been struggling with the very same passages versus maybe a few more that the average person may not be aware of. I get it.

I get it. There are a lot of passages and, and issues that the average person does not know about. And then in my messages I'll say, Hey guys, he may not realize this, but this passage has been a big source of disagreement and contention for centuries. And people are like, Oh wow, I didn't know that.

So that, that is true as well. Having said that, the very thing that a lay person comes across and says, I don't know what that means. Trust me when I say a lot of scholars come across the same passages and go, what's going on here? And what you find is that there is a history of interpretation behind those verses or chapters or sections of the Bible. So what I do is I read scholarly material on the disagreements over that passage.

I spent a lot of time on that. I am a scholar myself. I have a PhD in New Testament, more specifically in textual criticism, but still it is New Testament. So I will identify which passage am I coming to now?

And then I will do a survey of what is it? And most times I know, but I will still do a systematic survey of is that passage, does that passage has, have any disagreements about it? Is it a textual disagreement? Is it a theological disagreement? Is it a grammatical disagreement? And so I will spend some time researching that.

Where have people come down on that passage? You know, is it, can you lose your salvation versus keep your salvation? Or is it about, is it a present benefit or is it a future benefit?

Is it something that is more dependent on circumstances? I try to figure that out because all those apply to the Christian life. And then also I'd like to see how is that impacting other theologies that are very important?

They're very critical. They're very important to our faith. I'll try not to distinguish between first and second and third tier theology.

Some people do that. That's something that I've heard in the past, that you want to focus on primary doctrines. Don't get wrapped up in secondary doctrine.

Then people will put even baptism and that's secondary. We can disagree on that and still be safe. Yeah. And I agree to some extent, yes, but just no sooner or later is going to impact other areas. Right. And we've said that on the show before. I mean, you do a great job of illustrating that, but everything is connected.

If you chase it down, everything is woven back together. So while in the media context, it might not have wide reaching ramifications, every doctrine is connected to itself. Yeah. I mean, just like creation, people have made creation, whether you believe in a six day literal creation versus millions of years, people, some people, some genuine Christians say it doesn't matter. And I say it does matter. I'm not saying that people, if you believe in millions of years and then God made Adam and Eve that, oh no, you're lost.

I won't say that, but I will say that it will definitely impact other very important passages and doctrines in the Bible. Right. Yeah. You have to compromise somewhere. Oh, you will, you will compromise. And so, so I do a serious study of the passage to see where the contentions are. Then I decide where am I going to come down on based on grammar, based on linguistics, based on theology, based on canonical theology, based on, in a biblical theology, systematic theology, all these things matter. I'm not a systematic theologian, but I will make sure that I am, what I'm teaching over here is not at odds with what other big passages are about. Remember sometime back we did a show, biblical theology versus systematic theology. Yes.

I want to leak that show into this because I think it's relevant for this session. Yeah. And people who are like New Testament scholars or Old Testament scholars, they will say, oh, definitely biblical theology. Systematics, man.

They're just taking verses here and there out of context and putting it together and creating these theological systems. And they're, they're wrong. And I'm like, Mm. Wayne Grudem's over there like, what the heck did you just say?

We'll just say it again. And right then Millard Erickson shows up behind him. He's got like a baseball bat. Yeah. He's like, and Augusta Strong comes up and John Calvin, I mean, they all come in and like, what are you talking about?

He's got a baseball bat with like nails driven into it. And we were just joking, dude. That's the thing.

Yeah. You can see some exegetical problems in systematic theology, but I see systematic theology as as a guard rails that keep you from going overboard. If someone's listening to this conversation, they're like having just never heard of systematic theology.

What exactly do you mean when you say that? Well, systematic theology has been in the making for hundreds of years and it's simply taking the key doctrines like God or salvation or eschatology or if you get more specific, pneumatology or Christology and just taking various passages and of course, exegeting them in the context, but then bringing them together to create a fuller understanding of that theology. Whereas biblical theology is like, what does the text say?

Okay, that's what it is. In that context, in that book, maybe larger context would be the New Testament. Even larger context would be the whole Bible, the whole canon, but with no regard to where it may go. It may go somewhere, but it is what it is because that's biblical theology. That's the pure stuff.

But without the guard rails, you can have the pure stuff and go off the deep end. So you need both. So systematic theology, if I'm understanding it correctly, systematic theology just says, here's all the doctrines that the Bible espouses.

Let's try to codify them, put them into a, not a list, but put them in, like you said, put them in within their boundaries and so that we can understand them. Right. That episode we did was very helpful in the distinction between biblical theology and systematic theology. And so if people, if you go back and listen to that episode, it really is helpful in engaging in that conversation. And I think systematic theologians should listen to biblical theologians and make some changes where it's justified. So if, if biblical theology says, Hey, look, all this time we have been misinterpreting this passage here or these passages here or these doctrinal principles here, then systematic theologians should take that into account and say, okay, bring it in. Let's now make some adjustments. Oh wait.

If you make that adjustment, this is going to impact. Let's go back and study that again. Maybe it's not saying what you're saying. It's saying, I'm taking a class right now on Bible exposition and Dr. Shaw, you gave me a book even just last night.

Yeah. Which is, Oh, what was it called? Howard Hendricks Living by the Book. Living by the Book.

I couldn't remember the title and it's got some of that stuff in there. And it was kind of funny because the copy that you gave me was Nicole's dad's. Yes. And I was like, let me not take this one home. Cause I don't want the kids, you know, my two boys are destructive. I don't want them to tear up Nicole's dad's book. So I grabbed the other one that wasn't hers.

I don't know what happened, but somehow we did the switcheroo cause I got home and I saw that handwriting. I was like, what? I also, I got Nicole's dad's book, but it's pretty much that it's like, how do you study the Bible?

How do you get in there and actually start? And I'm sure that's more of an entry level book, but I guess what I'm saying is this is something that is on people's hearts. Yeah. Well, for those of you who may not know, Howard Hendricks was a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary. He was a good friends with people like Chuck Swindoll and, and sort of mentored them as well. He was big in the promise keepers movement back in the day, if y'all remember that. Just a great, wonderful, wonderful person. Some people who were close to him shared with me that man, he was an introvert as an introvert.

Really? Not a people person? No, not, not as much as a people person, but when you get him behind a microphone, mind blowing, it's like, oh my goodness. I can listen to this guy all day long.

Wow. One-on-one engaging people and not his, unless you were his friend or you were at least close to him. Yeah, he would be. So did you ever meet him? No, I've seen him.

Gotcha. I've seen him. I've heard him in person. And of course, very engaging, a lot of wisdom.

I wouldn't say that I agreed with everything that he ever did and said, but overall I think Howard Hendricks was was a giant. Yeah. Wow.

Especially at the time when he lived, but living by the book lays out the basic principles of Bible interpretation, study, application, and has been used by a lot of, a lot of preachers over the years. Yeah. So if someone's listening to this, cause we're talking about like interpreting the Bible and reading the Bible, learning how to study it, even having the desire to study it at all, you know, what, cause people will, you start throwing out words like that. Exegesis, eisegesis, exposition, hermeneutics, aren't all these things the same thing?

And if they're not the same thing, how do I know which one is which? Yeah. Great, great, great question.

Big and small. I mean, if, if you're just getting started and if you don't have a seminary background, then begin with something like Robertson McQuilkin's, understanding and applying the Bible. And he lays out all these principles and these terminologies and they're great places to start. But then you can move on and read, say, The Hermeneutical Spiral by Grant Osborne.

Great, great book. And, and then you can move on and read some, some heavy hitters like New Horizons in theology or Two Horizons in theology. You can go there. If you really want to keep, keep climbing the ladder, you know, there are, there are some big, big names out there like Kevin Van Hoos are big, big name in biblical hermeneutics. Again, I don't agree with them.

Just because I'm mentioning their names does not mean like I'm sold out on those guys. They're places I, I take big issue with them in how they are applying hermeneutical principles. But overall there's a lot you can learn from them. Why does this matter for the average church person who's thinking like, I have my Bible and I do my devotions and I listen to my pastor on Sunday and that's, that's me.

That's where I go. And I get it. I get, most people don't have the time or the, or, or the patience to sit there and say, I'm going to really study the principles of studying the Bible. And I get that, but I would encourage them to at least try a little more than you have been. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I've, I've been doing this for, man, I've, I got saved at 15 so I've been saved for 17, 18 years and I'm 33 now. And you know, not only that, but you know, I've been in school like, like I've taken hermeneutics one and I've taken hermeneutics two and I can sit here and tell you, I probably could not define hermeneutics if I tried. But that, that just kind of shows that when I was taking those classes, the effort wasn't there. I was just in it to take that class. The older I've gotten and the more that I've started doing this show in these past couple of years, really diving into doctrine, the more fun it becomes. I don't think I'll ever study doctrine as a hobby.

Like that's not who I am to get into the nitty gritty of, what does the Bible really mean? But at the same time, I am starting to fall in love with reading it and talking about it and understanding it more so than I did when I was actually in school to learn it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Yeah. So it's, it's wonderful and it helps, it applies to your life. And then you take more interest in what the pastor is preaching because you're taking the time to study for yourself. So when he preaches, you go, oh wow, okay, I wonder why he said that. And you study that.

Not just do you constantly trying to find faults with him, but you study. And then of course, if God calls you to be a Sunday school teacher or a discipleship leader or a small group leader or a Bible study leader, you can study the Bible for yourself. Yeah.

Yeah. I think there's a lot of people in churches today who are, could function as gifted teachers and gifted leaders. I mean, they had that kind of personality, that engaging, comfortable being in front of people and pulling a room's attention together, but they lack the confidence in their knowledge of God's word.

Very true. They lack that, you know, I don't know enough, I don't know about enough about the Bible, but just like you've said, just start small, start taking small steps and then build up that understanding and utilize those God-given gifts for his kingdom. I was reading the Howard Hendricks thing last night and he's, he pretty much said that exact thing. He said that he, he talked to a man and doctor, I'm sure you've, you've had this experience as well before he went to like a Bible conference, like a conference across the country. And there was a man there that he was talking to at his table and he said, you know, how, how far did you drive? He said, I drove 1200 miles to be here.

I brought a whole family. And it got to the point where he was like, so you know how, you know, what are you doing? He was like, well, I just, I just kind of come to these conferences. He said that man was willing to drive across the country to a Bible conference, but was not willing to get up and walk across the living room and try to read it for himself.

He wanted, he wanted someone else to just tell him he wasn't willing to wrestle with it. And I think that's, that's kind of what, what you're talking about is people lack the confidence to pick up the Bible and start studying it. I mean, I know you can't dive into a cold turkey and just expect to get like these hidden secrets. You, you, you need to be under biblical preaching and you need to be, you know, being mentored under someone that you trust. But at the same time, like the book is there. You know what I mean?

It's, it's available for you. Whatever you want to study, you'll find the time, you'll find people, you'll find shows like this one where we discuss books like this. Like I mentioned just a few moments ago, McQuillan's book or, or Gordon Fee's book on new Testament exegesis or Douglas Stewart's book on old Testament exegesis or like Grant Osborne. Again, you may not agree with all of them. Like I won't agree with Gordon Fee when it comes to his Pentecostal views. I won't agree with Grant Osborne when it comes to his classical Arminianism. But, but there are things that are powerful principles I can take away or exegetical fallacies by D.A. Carson. Again, I may not agree with D.A. Carson on everything, but wonderful book. If you want to deal with some of those fallacies in your own interpretation.

So I have something I want to ask you, and this is something I've thought about this for a while, but I didn't know how to really, how to really frame it, but like with me. So like I'm really into like audio video, right? And so a lot of that is patching and un-patching, routing a signal. I have a signal that starts from my mouth and it's got to get to the microphone and it's got to go through the cable and into the board and then out of the board to the speakers. There's a pathway.

And when you do that with like 20 musicians, things can get crossed up. And so it's very satisfying to spend a day patching cables, un-patching cables, and then everything works. It's clean, it's routed. With someone like you who's a biblical scholar, you've pour a lot, let's say your, let's say your, your paper on the flesh and the bones or, or the one on the Ethiopian eunuch, you're, cause you're trying to say, Hey, look, I'm presenting evidence that this either was original or was not original. And I've poured all of this in here. And so here's my findings. And to me, this is simple.

This is clean and it's conclusive. And another scholar could be like, nah, I don't think so. Does that ever frustrate you? Like to know that I'm getting to the end of this and I'm presenting closure as far as I'm concerned, this matter is closed.

Yeah. And I get their point because they're looking for something that I may not be providing or they are, they have a question in their mind that I did not answer or some qualification that I did not lay out. So I get it that they don't agree. I don't like it when they wholesale just dismiss the work. Oh yeah, that happens. Like it happened with my dissertation. Somebody dismissed it, say, Oh, you did a good work, but I disagree with him. So I was like, okay, so that, you know, that is true. But maybe say, what is it the good work is about? Right.

You know, what is, what is it that you do agree with? If you just disagree just like that and just flippantly say, I don't care for that. I don't think you're a good enough scholar then. A good scholar will not be like that. And sometimes some of the older guys get like that and it's not, it's not helpful.

It's not helpful. I've heard you do the opposite where you will talk about a scholar. I mean, earlier in this episode you said it, I don't agree with everything that they say, but I mean, they're a giant in the field or I would consider them a reputable resource for this, not necessarily for this, but I would trust them in this regard. I mean, that's the mark of good scholarship. And I hope I am like that. I hope I will continue to be like that where you recognize just like, you know, eating a fish and just spit out the bones. That's what you have to do with some of these works. You taught me that. You taught me that early on, not in biblical scholarship, but just in leadership. There were people who come into your life and they give you advice and some of it is probably good. Some of it may not be good. Some of it will make you a worse leader. And I remember coming to you and saying, you know, I just don't know what to think about this person.

And you were like, this does not have to be complicated. Take what works. If you don't, if you feel like they're giving you advice, that's good. Use that.

If you don't think the advice is good, don't do it. Exactly. And it's the same in life and in scholarship. Right. Right.

Yeah. So I hope people realize that and appreciate it and study the book of Romans. Take the time to study the book of Romans.

And that's how I do it. I studied the passage. I see where scholars have disagreed, the history of interpretation behind it. And then I will take my stand. Which side am I going to go on based, not just in just that passage.

I also need to look back. If I'm in Romans five, does Romans one, two, and three and four, what I have said, does it still continue if I take this view in Romans five? And if I take this view in Romans five and then I already know what's going to be in Romans six, seven, eight, nine, 10 and on, does it still continue? Is it going to impact something in say old Testament? Is it going to impact something in say Peter's letters or the gospels?

Is it going to impact that? I look at all of that. Then the next step is how can I now break it down so people can understand it?

How can I give them conclusions with enough argument there that they will appreciate it and feel like they have something, some resources with them, but not bogging them down with like a seminary class level or a PhD seminar level detailed work. Do you ever find, friction really isn't the right word. Do you ever find a discrepancy on how, no, that's not even a word. Do you ever find a difference just in how you present things to your church congregation to like you would present at like ETS?

Like on the surface, yes, those need to be very different. But at the same time, these are Christians who are wrestling with real problems. You know what I mean? Like do you try to bring your sermons the same level of detail that you would present like with a paper or with people at ETS with other scholars? Yeah. For one, I never try to look down on scholars. Sometimes people do that. Sometimes there is this, and scholars do that definitely towards lay people.

They call them pedestrians or I knew one scholar who called lay people pedestrians. Really? Yeah. And I'm like, really?

You call church people who are paying for your salary through the Southern Baptist Seminary. So through the cooperative program, so you can have a living, you calling them pedestrians? Yeah. Maybe you shouldn't be talking like that. Right. Right. Maybe. Anyways. Like our first show was Hoi Paloi and we were doing that like as a joke to make fun of those people who were saying stuff like that, but you're doing it for real?

Yeah. Don't do that. Don't do not do that. So scholars sometimes have a way of looking down on church people. Church people have a way of looking down as scholars like those, you know, they sit in the ivory tower and talking about how many angels can dance on the head of the pin and all that.

You know, don't do that. So when I am in a church setting, I, by God's grace, will try to treat people with dignity that they are better than me in areas like business or family or communication or understanding of how the world works and community works. So I need to respect them and then I need to present them the gospel or the message or the Bible study. When I'm an ETS, I don't try to look down on them like, hey, I am a pastor and a scholar.

You guys don't know the real world. I don't go with that kind of an attitude. I go with, okay, they earned their PhD.

Yeah. They're giving their time by attending my paper. So I'm going to make sure that it is worth their while. I'm going to cover the main issues. I'm going to make sure I talk on their level.

I'm going to not talk down to them. And so it changes your perspective and how you present. That's very, that's very Paul coded.

I become all things to all people that I don't know that I might win some very true. Yeah. Yeah. I love that meeting people where they are and engaging them for the sake of the gospel. I mean, that's, that's the whole heart behind the show.

I was just about to say where they are and engaging heart and mind for the sake of the gospel. That's, that's what the show was originally set out to do. You know, you can be a scholar and you can listen to the show and hopefully you get something from it. You can be a lay person and listen to the show and I'm really hopeful you get something from it. It's supposed to be for all people so that we can share the message of Jesus Christ. Not just that if you haven't heard now you've heard, but hopefully you're listening to this because you've heard of Jesus Christ and you want to keep falling more and more in love with him.

That's right. Guys, make sure you join us for tomorrow's episode, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clear View Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible.

And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes and you can always support us financially at ClearViewTodayShow.com. John, what are you going to leave the listeners with today? Getting dangerously close to 10,000 followers. Dangerously close. I'm getting like, Ooh, Oh, it's hot.

I can't get too close to it. But listen, I thank you, man. I almost stepped out of bounds there, but we really, really want you guys to go and follow DrShaw on pray.com.

I love seeing that number go up because guess what? That means 10,000 people have chosen, not just came across it, but have chosen to be involved in our ministry here at Clear View, getting the message of Jesus Christ to as many Christians as we possibly can. We are so grateful for all of your support. Thank you for giving. Thank you for supporting Dr. Shaw, but we will see you next time.

That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear View Today. We'll see you tomorrow. We'll see you tomorrow. We'll see you tomorrow. We'll see you tomorrow.