You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Definitively, I'm Ryan Hill. That is who he is.
Most of the time I go up, I'm like, I'm Ryan Hill, and then you go back down, but this was definitive. And I am 100% for certain. There's no thing I am more sure about. I am John Galantis, and we are here in the Clearview Today studio. It is Wednesday, and we are back on the East Coast with our host, with the most, ladies and gentlemen, that's Dr. Abbadon Shaw. You knew we were back. A lot of people didn't even know we had taken a break.
Yeah, we were in New Mexico for our staff retreat. So every year our staff goes away to spend some time in prayer, just to read a book or some devotional or even work through one of the books of the Bible. And then we will go see some sites. And this is a great time for us to sort of rejuvenate, to relax, to have a great time, but also to spend time in prayer, to plan out the upcoming year. And that's what we do. So we don't like sit there with a calendar and say, okay, we're going to do this this month.
No, that's a different thing altogether. This is the planning as in the big picture, big vision planning of where is our church headed? What is God doing in the life of our people?
What is it that they need? And what is he showing us that people need? And based on that, we spend the time four or five days, five days. Yeah. It's always encouraging to see people sort of take ownership in those discussions where we're talking about, you know, whether it's a book or whether it's a book of the Bible, like you said, Dr. Shaw, or even just that strategizing about where is Clearview? Where are we headed? Where does, where's God taking us to see people speak up and to see spouses speak up and know that we're all in it together is, is exciting. Absolutely. And we really appreciate the leadership of Clearview because they support this, they support this endeavor, this, this, and this whole planning to go away. Now we could just go and rent a house at the lake or ask one of our church members, can we borrow your house for, for a couple of days?
Easy to do that. But we don't want to do that. We want to be in a completely different surrounding. It's surrounding where we are not trusting in the surroundings.
Sometimes people like the surrounding because this is comfortable. This is, Oh, this is, Oh yeah, yeah, this is my, my deal. And what happens is then it's not about the time with the church body or the church team.
This is not the time to pray and try out new things. No, this is the, I know exactly what I want to do here. And so we are all, I mean, even I was completely out of my element this time because I had no clue about where we were. It's the complete opposite side of the country and it's thousands of hundreds, thousands of miles from home.
It's a long way from home is what I'm trying to say. And without fail, I mean, the experience has been all of the unexpected kind of surprise things on these trips have usually been our favorites. That's and that's what I was going to say earlier is what makes this trip so special are the spontaneous, unexpected adventures.
Yes, that's right. And that happened twice. One, it happened on Tuesday when we all of a sudden ended up at this echo amphitheater and it was phenomenal.
Maybe y'all can talk about that. Well, the echo amphitheater turned out to be one of my favorite things, which was just, it's really on the border of New Mexico to the North and it's past this place called ghost ranch. And it was funny because we went to where Google said, all right, here's the echo amphitheater. And there was a locked gate. It was somebody's ranch.
It was not the right place for sure. And so we were like, well, I guess we just turn around and go home and Dr. Shaw was like, let's just go see, let's just go see what it is. So we went up.
There was a little speaker box and it said, press zero to call the house. I will clarify. I did say, let's go and see. But internally, once we got there, I was like, all right, let's guys just turn around. Let's just back up.
You went up and you started to hit the code. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, oh no. Oh no.
I don't want to get shot at. Yeah. And then you did it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, uh, that that's the, that was the entitled millennial coming out in me.
I'm like, what can happen? I can do this. I can talk to someone. So I, I dialed the number that was on there on the little code and someone was like, hello. I was like, Hey, is this the, uh, empathy, the echo amphitheater?
And he's like, all right. Uh, did you look it up on Google? I was like, yes, sir. I did. He's like, yeah, you don't want to do that.
It's not here. He said, you're going to go, uh, to the North about man, 15 something miles. I have to wonder how many times a day he answered. He had it on law. He knew instantly. He was like, did you find it on Google?
So we did. He said, you're going to find the ghost ranch. All right.
This is how you know, you're out in the sticks and the boonies. They don't give you the address. They're like, here you go find the ghost ranch. All right. You're going to go about two miles past that ghost ranch to the North. All right. And then you're going to find it.
All right. You're going to turn up. You're going to turn to the left. You're going to go about 15 more miles. You'll see it.
I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like we're not, we're never going to find this place. So anyway, we go, we end up finding the ghost ranch. We go past it.
And then it's funny because we're like, I think this dude just give us bad directions. We're driving for a long time. There's nothing around you. And you don't realize like how big this place is.
It's like, you can just drive for 30 minutes and feel like you've made no progress. And then all of a sudden we started seeing signs, echo amphitheater. Yep.
Yep. So we go in, take this long hike. And I mean, genuinely, it is a gigantic amphitheater, but it's not an amphitheater where it like goes down into the ground. It's on the side of a mountain.
It's like, it's like, it's like, yeah, it goes vertically up and in to the mountain carved out of the mountain itself. So you get there and you start like talking and you can hear yourself like ping ponging all around you in your ears. So we just had a great time. Kids had a blast, but then you guys came together and did a song.
Yeah. We started doing some worship songs. We had like a five part harmony. That was pretty cool just to hear it kind of reverberating around the area and to know that there were other people who were pulling up in the parking lot and people who were taking pictures. I mean, they heard worship music.
Absolutely glorifying Jesus. And then it was, it was funny cause like the kids, all the kids wanted to do was go and that was like, all right guys, you have to be quiet for just a few minutes and then they, you would start singing, but then the kids wanted to sing too. It was like, let them sing, whatever. And then as soon as it's all done, we're like, all right guys, you can go first thing they do. Well, we took her to a place to amplify sound and then told her to be quiet.
Yeah. And I, we were hyping Gavin up in the car. We're like, Oh buddy, when you get here, you can shout, you can scream. There, there was all sorts of good stuff.
I loved, I loved the echo amphitheater. One of my favorite parts is just the interaction y'all have with your little children. Now we have it with our kids too. You know, our oldest one son, Nicholas was there.
And then of course our youngest one, Thomas, who are number three, number four in our family sibling. And just this time I got to spend with them and then to watch you guys spending time with your children, interacting with them, laughing, joking. That is what makes it more special than strategizing for the church or going places spontaneously or eating food that we typically don't eat.
No spending time with your family. That to me is the, this is the greatest blessing of being on these staff retreats. It's so special and it's memories that we take with us, you know, that lasts a lifetime. And so thank you Dr. Shah for making that a possibility for us to go and spend that time with our kids and spend that time with each other's families. You know, I have memories with Gavin and Holden from this trip that I'm going to take with me, which is so sweet.
I'm really grateful for Nicole, you know, Nicole, Dr. Shah's wife is really the one who's putting they, I mean, they work together as a team, but Nicole is the one that's going and finding the house, you know, communicating everything, getting everything lined up, flights, flights, all the details. What was, what are you going to do on each day? How long does it take to get there? Where are we going to rent some car or whatever? I mean, it's a lot because you think, you know, you hear about all the adventures and the, you think, Oh, we're just going to go, we're going to hop on a plane and go.
But then you start thinking, it's like, you're going to hop on a plane with 22 people. You're going to get all everybody's children, everybody's children. You're going to get their work schedules. You're going to get all this stuff.
So it really was a lot of work on the back end that I think even after all these years, a lot of us on the staff really don't see. Right. So can I give my word of wisdom for the week?
Let's hear it. So it's an old statement. I didn't come up with it. Sometimes crazy people have used it too. But it's a great statement that it's hard to hate up close. True. And that is a huge benefit of going on a staff retreat when you are so close, whether you're so close in the airport or in the plane or so close in the house or so close when we're traveling in the van to place to place. But it is hard to hate the person when you have been so up close. That's true.
What do you think? Why do you think churches don't do this more? Like, I think a lot of churches would listen to this kind of an episode and say, Oh man, I wish my church could do that. Or like that's, that's the sound of a church that's doing well is that they get to do stuff like that rather than saying, no, no, no. That's like the bare minimum of what we need to be doing.
Yeah. One is ignorance. They just don't know. They have the mindset that break means I get away from here. I get away from these people that I work with.
That's how they see a break. And to me, you are diametrically opposed to the vision of the church because you're trying to get away from the very people you should be getting close to. Yeah. Spend time with your family. Of course you have your own family. You have your own extended family. Spend time with them. Nothing wrong with that. Have your hobbies, play your games, go golfing, go swimming, whatever you like to do beyond the lake. But spending time with your church team is vital. Yeah.
And I think that's, you, you brought a good point. Spending time with family. The point of that is not to get away from the church family. Like imagine it's like, alright, I love Jesus and I want, I want more and more of Jesus in my life, but it's also important to schedule some time to get away from Jesus. You know what I mean?
It's important to schedule some time where I just take a break from the Holy Spirit and I take a break from God. If alarm bells are ringing in your ears, they should be. Yeah. That's what I'm saying.
Like imagine, imagine that. But you're saying that about the family, the body of Jesus, the children of God. You're saying I need to get some time away from those people.
And that's, and really that's going to take the form of me spending time with my family. Well, that premise also assumes that ministry and life need to be separated. That ministry is something that we clock in and do, and then we clock out of ministry and go home and do life. Lots and lots and lots of churches do exactly that. The staff is simply clock in, clock out, and then they're expecting some great things to happen and they don't. Right.
They don't. So when people's families are not involved in the ministry, it's just the, the employee, the person on staff is involved in the ministry, but their family is completely separated from that. Do you find that a lot of times the family is the one that ends up pulling them away from ministry?
Oh yeah, absolutely. Because they feel like this is not their ministry and sometimes foolishly ministers and pastors even get up there in the pulpit and they'll say something like, well, listen, let me tell you something. I'm going to protect my family. They are not your ministers. I am.
And I'm like, wow. Okay. You may be technically right, but you have just sabotaged your influence on those people because now those people look at you and go, he thinks we are attackers.
We're going to take his family away or we're going to harass his family. And I know there are churches who may do that, so I'm not going to put that past many churches. Uh, but overall, all of us are in ministry and that's how it should be received. All of us involved in ministry together, partnering together. And you know, you said it in well in the message this weekend, Dr. Shah, about the Holy Spirit is that when you serve God, he gives you the energy to keep serving him. And when you back away from that service, even what little energy you have starts to starts to wane away as we're talking about the Holy Spirit and how the Holy Spirit leads us. I mean, it's such an impactful message this weekend and understanding who the Holy Spirit is, what the Holy Spirit is not, and how, how our life is hemmed in by the Holy Spirit.
That's true. You know, today's verse of the day actually is all about that. It comes from Romans chapter eight and verse six where it says to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. And I think about that, like you, you have to consider what is it that shapes our thoughts?
What is it that shapes our priorities? Because I think a lot of Christians will ignore the fact that there is this conflict within them, the carnal versus the spirit. You know, we want to, we want to just say, all right, I'm going to get rid of all these earthly desires, but we can't do that without the spirit. I can't be strong enough just to do that on my own and prioritize God without the Holy Spirit leading me to do that.
Absolutely. Well, the verse prior to reading what you just read is Romans chapter eight, verse six. But if you read Romans chapter eight, verse five, at least in the new King James, it says for those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the spirit, the things of the spirit, a better translation would be for the minding of the flesh is death, but the minding of the spirit is life and peace. Minding means you have to, it's a verbal noun.
Kind of like when is it, is it the same as like when Southern people tell their children that you need to mind, you need to mind this person, like obey this person. Yeah. Like it's almost like you're not just listening to the person, but your mind should replicate the mind of that person. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. So it's your mind replicating either according to this verse, the flesh, the things that are carnal or your mind replicating the Holy Spirit. Right.
Right. Now this is very important when it comes to Romans chapter eight, because Romans chapter seven leaves us, leaves us with a man who is exasperated because he cannot live the Christian life. Romans chapter seven begins with just a description of the unregenerate man or woman for that matter.
Somebody who is finding that the law really cannot help them, but then it quickly transitions into the last part of Romans seven, 14 to 25, I believe transitions into the image of a regenerate person, somebody who is saved, but they're still trying to live by the law. And that is impossible. Common? It is very common. Yeah. Yeah.
Very common. Because what people do is they, they begin with by grace. I mean, how are you saved? You're saved by grace through faith. They begin by grace, but then they try to live by the law. And then somebody comes around and says, Hey guys, no, no, no.
It's grace through and through. Okay. Then I'm done with the law. It was like, no, that's not true either.
What do you mean? I'm not going to keep the law like the, the, the, the, all the priestly sacrifices and going to the temple and, and all the festivals and no, the principles continue. Every law that God gave, some are very obvious, like 10 commandments, very obvious what the principles are, but the rest of the laws, the principles are easily seen.
They are, you can distill them down to see why God told them to do certain things and not do certain things. You still keep the essence of the law. So yes, you begin by grace and yes, you live by grace, but the law is not eradicated.
Right. That's a great point in keeping the essence of the law because people get stuck on semantics. They get stuck on like, the Bible says this, so I have to do exactly this or, and they'd ignore the distinction between these laws were meant for a specific purpose. These laws were meant to be carried through and how we understand that relates back to our understanding of salvation. We talked about that earlier on the show as well in the, in the previous weeks is that there were different types of laws. There was the moral law, but then there was also civic laws and there were ceremonial laws.
And so it's not that the civic and the ceremonial laws are done away with forever. They were derived and correct me if I say something wrong there, but they were derived from the moral of that moral principle. Yeah. And they, they represented a moral principle and that was really the coming of Jesus Christ. So people like to get shallow and like to get pedantic and they like to say, Oh, well, so you're gonna, you're gonna not wear wool of with polyester or you're not going to eat shellfish and you're not going to get tattoos and you're not going to do all this stuff because the law says so.
Right. But what they're, what they are in essence are trying to drive towards is look all those commandments that talk about homosexuality is a sin. Oh look, if you're going to do that, then let's stone people.
And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Homosexuality is still a sin. No, we don't stone people anymore. That was for a certain group of people that were living under direct theocracy. God was their King and this is what he wanted. He wanted them to be protected. He wanted them to be different. He wanted them to be separate from the world because they were carrying the son of God. Right. That's right.
Okay. So they had a whole different expectation. God had a whole different expectation from them. Now that Jesus has come, we don't do that anymore. We're not expected to do that anymore.
But homosexuality is a sin or fornication is a sin. It doesn't go away. That principle does not go away. That continues.
That's right. Do we eat pork? Of course you can eat pork, but we also understand the importance of purity.
Okay. Some foods were considered impure. Some foods were considered pure.
Today we don't distinguish between clean and unclean. Right. You know, God gave that vision to Peter upon the roof in Joppa and the sheet came down three times with all kinds of animals. Peter rise, kill and eat. Oh, I can do that. Peter rise, kill and eat.
I can do that. Peter rise. What I have called clean, don't call unclean. That was done to help him go to the house of Cornelius and preach the gospel to him.
He was a Roman. So Peter, you can, you can eat anything you want to, but does that mean for a single moment that Peter can now say, oh, so being clean before God doesn't matter because I can eat pig. Right.
No, you can eat pig, but being pure and holy is still applicable. Right. Those laws had a specific principle. Those laws had an overarching principle, but they also had a specific use for the people that they were originally given to. That's right.
The people of Israel. And when Jesus came, it did not get abrogated. It just came to an end, but the principles continued. That's right.
You can see God connecting the dots for Peter in that moment and you know, zooming out the larger picture of connecting the dots for us. We don't keep the minute details of every single law that we read in Leviticus, but the principles are still there. Absolutely.
We live by them. Absolutely. And so that's why they're usually used to, to, to support an agenda. Right. It is usually, unfortunately is sexual agenda.
Yeah. Because they really don't care. They're not saying, Hey, you really shouldn't get tattoos.
They're saying, look, you see how that law is silly and how this law is silly and how this one, so also this is also, it's not about the tattoos. It's really about homosexuality. It all comes down to that. To be very honest, we met dance around that issue, but it really comes down to that.
That's what people want to say. That is okay. If people are listening and they are hearing this, this shift that takes place between being minded toward the flesh and minded toward the spirit, what is the Holy Spirit's role in walking us through that process? Great, great, great question.
So now that we have come to Romans chapter seven and verse 24 with Paul just exasperated or wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death? The answer comes back immediately. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
I mean, he is excited because he knows the answer, but the point for us is this. That is where each of us has to come. We have to come to the end of ourselves. Some people come right away. Some people, it takes years. Some people will never do. And does that mean they're not saved?
Of course not. Salvation is by grace through faith. When you receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior, you are saved, but you can still go back to legalism .
So legalism is not just, I'm trying to keep the law, but I have rules and regulations. And that's never the way Christian life was to be lived. Is it significant that Paul is coming to this end of himself as a Christian? Like he's already saved.
Yes. Cause we, cause we tend to think like, okay, you come to the end of yourself. Now you've got Jesus and you're different forever. Your whole life is completely new right then and there. Yes, but it's, it's an, it's a knowledge that requires a faith that requires an action. Say that one more time. It's a knowledge. Knowledge requires faith, which requires an action.
Wow. So knowledge that we cannot live the Christian life in our own strength and our own power. So what, how, what do we need? Well, let's go to the next verse, Romans 7 25. So then with the mind, I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin. Remember those four laws, law of God, which is good. Law of in our members, all our habits, our eyes are trained to see ugly things. Our mouth is trained to say ugly things.
Our ears are trained to hear trash. Now that law is still operating. Even though we're saved, the law is still the law of our members.
The law of the flesh is still operating. Then there's a law of our mind. We have a new mind. That mind is the mind of Christ. That this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.
Carmen Christie, remember Philippians chapter two. Then there's a law of sin. That's, that's the indwelling sin.
This is a sin that requires you to go back into the old ways and sin and subject yourself to master sin. So now what happens in Romans 7 25. So then with the mind, I myself serve the law of God.
So you have four laws and they pair off in twos. The mind, the law of the mind goes with the law of God because they say, I want to serve God. Mind of Christ says, I want to serve the, that's why when people say the law of God is gone. No, with the mind, you want to serve the law of God.
That's right. You should want to serve the law of God. Jesus did not come to destroy the law.
What do you say? I did not come to destroy, but to fulfill it. And, and you, you said it from the, from the pulpit like this. And I think it was so simple.
It's not even an oversimplification. It's just the simple truth. It was like, how can the law of God be destroyed? It's the word of God. Right. If it's the word of God, it can't be destroyed.
Yeah, it can't be. It's eternal. Yeah. And so just because certain things were only meant to be kept in principle now does not mean they're eradicated. We already covered that plenty.
So let's move on. But then the other pair is the law of my members goes with the law of sin. Isn't that what it says here? But with the flesh, the law of sin. Yeah.
So now these two are boring. And the end of the experience of most people like, man, man, I really need to obey God. And then your flesh says, just obey sin.
Yeah. There are two, there are two powers, which I don't even know if I'd call them powers, but there's two like external laws, which is God and sin. And then the internal laws, which are my members and my mind.
And they each, they each pick a team. So now there's this conflict in me. Paul says that explicitly. I mean, this is the verse that says the thing that I want to do, I don't do in that, which I don't want to do. I end up doing. And Mr. Law or the law of God cannot help us. It's not going to help you one bit. He's just going to sit there and look at you.
I'm really struggling. The mind can say all he wants is like, Hey man, I'm going to do you. Okay. This is, this is us working together. And the law is like, yeah, go for it. Nothing. Not even that is like, I'm nodding.
I need to stop nodding. It's just like, yeah. Ten commandments cannot help you live the Christian life. True. That's a great point, right? That's a great point.
So many people listening across the, across the world, really, I mean, with pray.com, there'll be people listening everywhere have put their faith and their trust in their ability to keep those. Oh yeah. We put them up in our houses. We get them framed. Granny had them framed in her house all the time.
And the big 10 I'm good. Yeah. But granny didn't realize like those 10 commandments, they can't help you. They can't make you live the Christian life, right? Even if you follow them. Yeah.
And they're not bad again. I hope everybody knows that. So what is the solution? Romans chapter eight is a solution. And Romans chapter eight is all about the Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit is mentioned 19 times in Romans chapter eight, more than any other chapter in the entire Bible.
Wow. Chapter seven is full of eyes. I, I, I, I, I, or me, me, me. Romans chapter eight is the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit. And what does it say? Romans chapter eight, verse one, there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the spirit, no condemnation.
Yeah. So while you are in this this, this I guess the, this war where neither side is winning. One side is mind and law. The other side is flesh and sin.
Neither are winning. How does a person feel? They feel condemned. It's like, I am, I am through.
I don't know what to do. Yeah. There's, there's a defeated spirit. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't want to do this. My mind tells me that, but my body does not listen. And I think you, you put it really great and I know we're almost out of time, but you put it really great. I'm in a previous episode where it's like, that's the response you should have the defeated, like, okay, I'm throwing my hands up. I'm done.
I'm done. That's where we allow grace to come in. Yeah. You get to that point. That's, that's where you need to be.
That's the sweet spot. Yeah. We see that as defeat, right?
Yeah. But what you realize is Jesus has already planned that. He plans our failures and some of us get that very early and go, okay, that failure is actually good that I cannot live the Christian life in my own strength and my own power. Some people get it way later in life in their sixties, seventies, they go, Oh, so I've been trying to be a better person and God never expected me to try to be a better person. He expected me to let the life of Jesus flow through me as the Holy Spirit helps me. That's too complicated.
I'll just try to be a better person. I like this better. That's what I know. And I said it last time in our short service. If that is the case, why in the world are you following a Jewish man who died outside an execution hill? Right.
What's he doing for you? Of Jerusalem. Yeah.
2000 years ago. Why are you following him? Right. Let me give you some better people like follow Alexander the great follow. Give me a name. Give me, give me, give me George Washington. George Washington.
Napoleon followed John F. Kennedy. Yeah. I mean, follow somebody. I mean, why are you following him?
That's a great, what is so better about him? Right. That's a great point. I mean, people, people laugh at the, the simplicity of it, but that's, I mean, that's how the Christian life is set up. It's meant for us to sort of take a setback and realize that we've come to the end of ourselves and say, all right, Jesus, you're the one who's got to live this for me. I can't do it in my, in my, that's exactly what he says. But because people will then balk at that and they'll say, well, I'm going to follow him because he's God.
And it's like, exactly right now. You have to, now that's why you have to step out. You can't, you're not, you're not God. So you're not going to be living the Christian life on your own. And Christianity is God living through you.
That's right. Amen. So beautiful. Guys, if you enjoyed today's episode, write in and let us know what you got from it.
2 5 2 5 8 2 5 0 2 8. Write in and let us know how you're going to apply that weekly wisdom this week. It's hard to hate up close and so good, such a great advice for us. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes. If you want to re listen and you can always support us financially at clearviewtodayshow.com.
John, what are we closing with today? Definitely want to plug Dr. Shah on pray.com. A lot of you guys are listening to this on pray.com right now, but you for some reason have not followed Dr. Abbadan Shah.
Make sure you go ahead and do that. We are closing in on 5k followers. Very, very grateful for everyone who's giving and supporting on pray. Uh, like, uh, like to let you know that there's a lot of exclusive content on pray as well that you can only get on that app. So download it for free right this moment. That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
