Extended interview: "Survivor" host and showrunner Jeff Probst

Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet? Yeah, sold it to Carvana. Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy. The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months?

Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient. Just like that? Yeah. No hassle?

None. That is super convenient. Sell your car to Carvana and swap hassle for convenience.

Pick up these may apply. Start fresh in the new year. As you set resolutions for 2024, consider how learning a new language can enrich your life, whether through travel, career advancement or cultural appreciation. Keeping in mind everything you've learned over the last year, it's time to build on that and learning a new language can help you connect with others and explore new cultures. With that in mind, there's no better tool than Rosetta Stone, the most trusted language learning program. Available on desktop and mobile, Rosetta Stone immerses you in the language so you truly learn to think, speak and understand it naturally. With Rosetta Stone's intuitive approach, there are no English translations.

You're fully immersed and the built-in true accent feature acts like a personal accent coach, giving you real-time feedback to make sure you sound just right. Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to get started.

Start the new year off with a resolution you can reach. Today, listeners can take advantage of this Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. Visit Rosettastone.com slash RS 10. That's 50% off unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life.

Redeem your 50% off at Rosettastone.com slash RS 10 today. I'm Jane Pauley. Can you believe Survivor is turning 25, which is why this week our Sunday morning extended interview is all about Secrets of the Tribe from host Jeff Probst. Anyone living under a rock, how would you describe Survivor? Wow, that's a good question out of the gate because on the surface it is this social experiment because you're taking a group of people that are strangers and you're dumping them in a jungle and you're saying figure it out. Storm is coming.

Can you make fire? Good luck finding food. But then on top of it you put this game of politics where you conspire with and against to get rid of people who might have been the people you were relying on. And so there's trust and there's insecurities come up and then justified ethics and all kinds of things happen and at the end of a season you forget you played Survivor because you transformed your life by the things you did out here. And you bear witness to this and we're gonna get to that in a little bit but I can't begin without first saying congratulations season 48.

Thank you. So what goes on in your head on the eve of launching the 48th competition? It's a combination of excitement and focus because you want to get out of the gate with everything firing, all cylinders.

That means every big theme you might have or every tiny twist or something you've hidden in the jungle. You want to make a good first impression with the players. You want to inspire them. Come play this game. Don't sit on your hands. You didn't come out here and leave your family to be timid.

You came out to swing for deep center field. You will probably fail. That should give you the permission to play to win. So you want all of that to happen. Do you still get nervous? I don't get nervous on Survivor. It's weird.

I've never gotten nervous. I lean into it. I love the uncertainty because as much as we might have something planned, we don't know. I don't know what any of the players are gonna say to me or what they're gonna do with the twist we might have hidden in the jungle. So it's always this sort of game of improv where you might have an idea. I think we should talk about this and then somebody else says something more interesting and you go, let's follow that story. What's been incredible as someone who has seen Survivor, watches the tribes on the island, you think of this small group and then there is this massive village that we have seen at what you call base camp.

Yeah. Can you take me through this community that exists behind the scenes that makes this all possible? Yeah, it's a great trick because when you're watching Survivor, it does feel intimate and it is. When the tribes are on the beaches, there's just a small handful of crew there and producers. When you get to a challenge or tribal council, you know, there's cameras everywhere. We have roughly 400 people that are our international crew.

Then we have another 400 Fijians who work with us as well. So we're close to a thousand people to put this show together and I'll tell you, we need every single person. And all of the message boards and everything that exists out there, there is a Survivor universe out there.

Can you take me back to the beginning of this universe in the U.S.? How did Survivor come about back in 1999? Well, the story is that Mark Burnett had this idea to take Survivor and do it in the U.S. and he went to every network and every network said no. That's a crazy idea.

We don't want to do it. But Mark is not easily deterred. So he went out and got sponsors for the entire show. So he went to places like Target or Budweiser and said, would you pay to be on this show? And then he went back to CBS and said, I've paid for the entire show. It's paid for. And Moonves, who was running things at the time, said, so I can't lose. You've already paid for the show and we'll split the ad revenue. This is a very famous story that everyone knows.

I'm not speaking out of school. So Mark got 50% of the ad revenue. CBS got 50% of the ad revenue. Survivor was a massive hit. CBS said, we need to talk. Let's figure out a new deal.

And I think both did okay in the long run. I think you're right. Before it became a massive hit, before it even got off the ground, where were you as all these discussions were going on and Mark is scheming up a way to make sure this thing is picked up? I was literally the last person hired. I heard Mark talking about Survivor on a radio interview when I was driving on the 405 and he described the show. And from that moment to today, sitting here with you, I have not stopped thinking about Survivor. I knew when I heard it, I told all my friends, this is my show.

This is, this is what I've been waiting for. It's not just a game show. It's not the dating show. It's this thing.

It's about us. And I, when I met with Mark, I gave him that pitch and he looked at me and said, oh, well, very nice to meet you. I'm like, what? Nice to meet me. I thought, oh, I guess he doesn't get me.

And then months later I got a call saying, you know, you're in the running. You're a student of psychology and anthropology without the degrees. So you never, you never studied psychology because the way that you hone in on the personalities behind the people that we see, you're really creating a cast with different DNA that all compliments or destroys one another.

Yeah. I mean, I have always been into psychology and philosophy and I watch a lot of police interrogations to watch how a detective works with a, with somebody he already knows did it, but I want you to confess like, so I've always loved all of that. I just never formally applied it. I didn't want to be a psychologist. I wanted to be a storyteller and it just, John, it was just craziest thing that it worked out that I ended up on a show where I get to play in the world of psychology while being a storyteller.

It's, I still can't believe I ended up on the one show that has all of the things I'm into. Police interrogation. Yeah.

Okay. So what did you take away from those interrogations? Are there tactics that stick with you today? There are lots of tactics. Teach me one.

Well, I need, I need something in my toolbox. My favorite, see if I can explain it. I call it the catch and release and it's when a detective appears to catch the suspect early in a lie and they go, well, wait a second.

That doesn't make sense. Cause you said on Friday, you were over here and then they let the suspect win and they go, Oh, okay, my bad. And in that moment, the suspect believes, Oh, this guy's easy. He's a dope.

This will be no problem. And what he doesn't realize is, no, I caught you and I released you so you can think you're okay and now you're really going to open up and I'm going to get you to confess. I don't know why I watch this stuff, but I watch it. My wife laughs. I have it on all the time and it's not like I'm sitting, sitting there studying it. It's just in the background. I'm like, Oh, that was really interesting. It took him an hour and he got there with one final question, which is, so let me go back to the first thing I asked you. Did you kill her?

Yeah, I did. You know, I love that stuff. How do you apply this in ways that viewers will understand? Well, you know, the fun part of my job is I don't have anything at stake, so I have a bit of an advantage. The players are playing the game and you have a million dollars at stake. So I always say to the players, my questions are opportunities for the smart player.

I'm not asking complicated questions. I might be asking precise questions, but if you're prepared, you should be able to take that ball down the middle and push it wherever you want it to go, to move your story, to move somebody to a vote that you want to have happen, to make sure it's not on you. And you see it on Survivor. There are people that are so good. No matter what I ask them, they find a way to move the story and other people bury themselves.

That's on them. We've been on a long time. You know how the game works. Sooner or later, I might ask you a question.

Be prepared. When did you know that Survivor was going to be ahead? Day one of season one.

Really? When I knew Survivor was going to be interesting was the first day of the first season when we abandoned everybody on the beach and Richard Hatch, who ended up winning the first season, got up in a power position in a tree and he was looking down on everyone and he said, I think we need to talk. I think we should all talk. And Sue Hawk, a truck driver from Wisconsin, looked up and said, where I'm from, we work while we talk. There's the show.

A collision of people from different walks of life that are gonna have to rely on each other and conspire against each other and those two did that the entire game. Didn't know it would be popular, but I knew that's what I was hoping I was signed up for, is a study of humanity, of behavior. When some people hear host, they think all you do is look good on camera and speak pretty. Yeah. But you do so much more.

You don't wear an IFB, from what I understand, during tribal council. Yeah, no, never. And early on you insisted on writing your own copy. Right. How did that happen?

Because that, I think, is very rare. Yeah. It's not usual that a producer would let you have that freedom. Yeah. Yeah. That was Mark. Mark and I talked early on and he said, hey, I heard this thing you can put in your ear and I can talk to you and tell you what to ask. And I was like, can we try it without that? Because I think what's gonna happen is you're gonna go left, I'm gonna be going right. We're both gonna end up at the same place, but it's just gonna be confusing and just give me a chance.

And that's something Burnett was really good at. He would believe in you. And you're a new guy at this point. A new guy. Kind of unproven.

Yeah, totally unproven. And he gave you this very long leash. Yeah, he did. And I'm sure there were times he probably second-guessed it early on, like, oh, why'd he ask that question?

Or you didn't ask that question. But to his credit, he gave me the freedom to make mistakes and in that he gave me the opportunity to become confident. So I'm confident now. It doesn't mean I'm always right or always good, but I'm confident. Give me the ball again.

I'll shoot again. I'll get it sooner or later. It almost sounds like those early days were kind of like startup territory. Totally great analogy.

Never thought of it that way. 100% startup. And we'll have more on the 25th season of Television Survivor when our Sunday morning extended interview continues after this. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast?

Easy. Just use Indeed. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With sponsored jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster.

And it makes a huge difference. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. Plus, with Indeed sponsored jobs, there are no monthly subscriptions, no long-term contracts, and you only pay for results. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash listen. Just go to Indeed.com slash listen right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.

Indeed.com slash listen. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. This cold and flu season, Instacart is here to help deliver all your sick day essentials. Whether you're in prevention mode and need vitamins, hand sanitizer, and that lemon tea your nana swears by, or you're in healing mode and need medicine, soup, and a lot more tissues. Simply download the Instacart app to get sick day supplies that reinvigorate or relieve delivered in as fast as 30 minutes. Plus, enjoy zero delivery fees on your first three orders.

Excludes restaurant orders, service fees and terms apply. There's location, and then there are the people that define that location. The cast members, those that are competing. How do you begin casting? What's your involvement with casting? Casting has changed tremendously from when we started.

Okay. And COVID had a big impact on that because when we couldn't see people in person, we started doing FaceTime calls or Zoom calls. And we discovered that we could do a lot over FaceTime.

And so I changed my approach. And now casting starts if you were somebody that our casting team thought we should meet. I go into my office.

The dogs are there. I have a cup of coffee. I hit FaceTime and type your number in. I say, John, what's going on? What are you doing right now? And we talked for two minutes, ten minutes. I know within 30 seconds. Honestly, within 30 seconds, I'm pretty sure you're gonna be on the show or not. You know when people ask me, hey, what should I do when I apply?

I say, this is gonna sound like an oxymoron or a trick answer. Just do nothing. Just turn on your phone and just tell us who you are. You don't have to do anything because who you are is what we're looking for. So you can be in your kitchen.

You can sneak out of work and get in your car. You can be in the opera. We had a guy getting ready for surgery. He's soaping up.

He's like, alright, Jeff, I wanted you to see what I do. I'm about to cooperate on somebody. Okay.

All of those work. I mean, when we changed things starting with season 41 and became much more diverse, not only was it the best thing that's ever happened to Survivor because we have all these amazing stories that we weren't getting, but it also showed people at home, oh, there's somebody who looks like me. She talks the way I talk.

He's from where I'm from. If he can do it, I can do it. And we have people now coming in to apply to be on Survivor saying, you know I'm here because Mary Ann from season 41, she said it's okay to be weird and I've always felt weird.

I mean, that stuff is beautiful because now you realize, yeah, you're as welcome as anyone. Come on, be a part of Survivor. How do you whittle down the cast? So you have a smaller group from those that apply. From what I understand, you give lie detector tests, IQ tests? We do give IQ tests.

We do a very deep dive when we're in our casting process. We know your background. We know your IQ. We know your net worth. We know if you've had surgeries.

We know a lot. And all we're trying to get at is to understand you. It's not that we're investigating you to find something wrong.

We're just investigating you so we know who you are. So then we can look and say, okay, John is this way and he has a tendency to do this in crisis. So we should put him on a group where somebody else complements that or contrasts that. And then it's a roll of the dice. You get out here and your group dynamic takes over and you're like, oh, this is not what we thought was gonna happen. Take me through the psychological testing. What does that involve? That is probably the most intense and deepest part of our casting process is if you get past us, the producers, then you meet with our psychology team and what they're gonna do is really examine your entire life.

And that's what happens. A full examination of your life. And again, it's not to try to find something wrong. It's to understand who you are. And it involves things like, you know, how you were raised or birth order or relationship with parents or that you didn't have friends or that when you dropped out of high school you were lost for a while and you got arrested and then you had a drug issue. It can be anything.

You can be a Harvard model student. You can be somebody who struggled your whole life. We just don't need to understand you because you're gonna take on something that's really intense. Survivor is fun to watch.

It is a monster to play. It brings you to your knees. Do you then use that testing when you are determining who goes into what tribe? Yeah, yeah. We sit with our psychology team and what they will tell us is, here's John and this is his upbringing and in these kinds of situations he's likely to respond this way. And so then we have these sort of little packages on everybody and we go, well, John might be really good with, you know, Veronica and Veronica might have something in common with Charlie. Let's don't put them on the same tribe. Let's wait for that. Let's put Charlie in another tribe.

But there's no science to it. It's literally a desk with a bunch of faces. We're like, okay, we know they're on the show. The question is what tribe are they gonna be on? And that's the part of the show that's luck for the player. It's like, I got on a good tribe. Propes put me on a lousy tribe. That's why I sucked.

I listen to you and how much you're invested in every step of this. After all these years in television doing what you're doing, do you consider yourself an expert in human behavior? Absolutely not. No.

That was a twist. I didn't expect you to say not. Really? No. What I've learned is nothing surprises me. Really?

Nothing. And I get asked that all the time like, are you ever surprised anymore? I'm surprised every day because you don't really know. This is what I think I've learned. It's easy to intellectualize who you are and how you would respond in a certain situation. But when you're in the situation, it's a whole different thing.

And you see it on Survivor all the time. People get overwhelmed at things that they're surprised to overwhelm them. And things happen and they drop and they crumble or they want to quit or whatever. But it's the same with me. You know, I sit in my life and they go, I know who I am.

And then a situation arises and I respond in a way that I didn't expect to and usually in a way that I'm not proud of. I'm like, man, still learning. It's crazy. I'm still learning. I'm a million years old and I'm still learning.

What fascinates me and strikes me is you have this cast of characters, real people, that you put together in such a way to see the unexpected unfold. How difficult is it to survive on Survivor? Are you gonna try it at all while you're out here? Yeah, I think later today we're gonna do some fishing. I think I'm gonna suck at some of it and maybe do well on others. But here's the thing. You just said it. I think I'm gonna suck, maybe do well at other things, but you're gonna attempt it.

Yeah. You're gonna pursue it. You have an idea. I want to see if I took a spear and I went underwater, could I catch a fish? And then if I did, what would I do with it?

Could I make a fire? Would I want to eat this fish? Do I even want to kill this fish?

All those questions are interesting. There's no right or wrong. But that's why Survivor is so compelling is how often are you gonna be in the middle of the ocean with a spear and try to go spear fishing? How often? Yeah.

But not usually. No. And then when you put on top of it the pressure of not letting other people down. They're relying on me to feed them. I'm the guy that can go feed them.

What I don't know is while I'm underwater they might be talking about getting rid of me. It's just this crazy thing. So I think that's why Survivor is so compelling is that it tests you in so many different ways and then shows you maybe parts of yourself you didn't know. I would like to think if I was hungry enough I would be motivated enough to figure out a way but after watching all these seasons of Survivor it becomes very clear hunger plays a very critical role in one's ability to even function on a basic level.

Yeah. You know what you learn like when you're when you're starting to be a rider what you learn is that people will do the least possible thing to get what they want. So if I only have to walk two steps to get where I need to I will. If I have to walk a mile okay I'll walk a mile.

So on Survivor you see it. People start out and they don't want to do the heavy work out of the gate. They want to do the least amount of work possible to survive. Then they get a little hungrier and they realize wow I've barely gone six hours and I'm starving. Now what do I need to do? Maybe figure out how to open a coconut. Then they get a little hungry. Maybe I'll take the spear.

Maybe I'll try to spear fish. Then they get a little hungry and they start looking around for nuts. But all of that requires effort and the more calories you expend the more tired you get. And it's just this it can just cycle through things but what's happening is you're realizing you're okay. You're hungry. Okay.

I get it. We're not usually hungry but you're not dying. And then day 14, 15, 16 people start walking around going I'm doing it. I am living in a friggin jungle.

How am I doing this? And I've not been voted out either. I'm still in this game. That's what I like about Survivor is that the game is the lure. Yeah.

It gets you here. But the experience you get as a result of playing the game is the prize. You've watched and observed and hosted nearly 25 years of game and strategy. Part of that strategy I think for most players is lying. Yeah. Which is for a viewer uncomfortable I think it makes us come to terms with our own behavior.

There you go. Take me through that as you yourself have had a front row seat to it over all these years. I think you just said it really well is part of the game of Survivor by design is that you're gonna have to lie. It's gonna be very hard to win and be completely honest. I don't know that it's ever happened. But what makes the lying tricky is that you're lying to somebody that you might have relied on just last night.

We had a season recently where one guy was having panic attacks at night. They were real. They went back to his childhood and he was having a really rough time having these nightmares in the middle of the night and there was another player who was comforting him and she was saying I got you. In that moment they weren't playing the game.

But the game was still being played. So when it's over does the woman have to lie to the guy? Does the guy have to lie to the woman who just took care of her?

Probably. And that's what's so tough. It becomes personal. You told me you'd never lie to me. That was a lie. But I believed you. That's on you.

I swear on my mother's life. And I don't have any issues with it because I just look at it as this is your experience. I don't know how I would do. I'm not sure I could lie to somebody that took care of me in the middle of the night. I'm not sure I'd have it in me. I might just say you know what you earned my respect I'll never lie to you and if you vote me out.

But other people like no that's the perfect opportunity they're vulnerable. What's your track record for guessing who wins? Once. Once? I guessed once.

Wendell in Ghost Island. I've been wrong every other time. I stopped doing it because I'm so bad.

Really? Only once? In 47 going on 48 seasons?

One time. It's very tough because you just don't know out of the gate what's gonna happen. You know you can have somebody that you want on the show. We had somebody in Survivor 47 that we were so excited to have on the show. But it takes a lot for them to last on the show. So they could be the first person off and then you go oh well we'll never know.

And then you could have somebody who you weren't sure about who lasts a long time and they become a favorite. So you really just put compelling people on and then stay out of the way of the game. We don't mess with the game. One of the things I'm most proud of is we have never messed with the integrity of the game. Ever.

You'll never find a player who will say it felt weird. Never. And a lot of shows do that. We're approaching season 50. How much longer do you stay on as host? You know I can't believe that we're coming up on season 50. And when I think about it it reminds me how old I am. How long I've been doing this. And yet I'm telling you I have the same enthusiasm. And it's weird even to me when I see other people retiring or saying well I did that for 20 years. I'm in the middle of 48 right now and I'm loving it.

And everybody's talking about 50 and I'm down for 52. I don't know what we should do yet. It's kind of a monumental task to imagine. But I love doing Survivor. And I also hear people say well Survivor would never be the same without you. That's not true either.

Survivor the format is the key. It's just what you do within it. And if you brought somebody else on to be a leader or the host they'd have a completely different point of view. Like even from our interview today if you took over you would bring a different point of view to your questions. You have a different background. You have different interests. And so then the show might start going this way.

I'm just me. So the stuff we're doing is the stuff I'm interested in. It doesn't mean it's right. I'm wrong all the time as fans remind me all the time. It sounds like you're in this until the end. I'm in it now. I don't have any thoughts of not being in it. But I mean yeah if you're saying at 86 I mean maybe I'm too old then.

But I never really look at it that way. I feel like I'm a part of a team and I've said to the people I work with as long as you all keep showing up I'll keep showing up. Season 50 what can we look forward to? Season 50 it's funny to be talking about 50 when we're still doing 48 and then we have to do 49.

Here's what we know. We want to bring back returning players and then we want to have some fun. I don't exactly know what that means but I'm just trying to put my mind in the mindset of a fan.

What would they like to see for 50? Forget about the things you should or shouldn't do. Have no boundaries.

Let's just start a clean board and write down ideas what would be fun and we'll see where it leads. I'll see you back here in a year and we can talk about it. All right well CBS Sunday morning it has been a pleasure to have you out here and I hate to say this but it is time for you to go. See you next time.

I'm Jane Pauley. Listen for the trumpet next Sunday morning and for more of our extended interviews follow and listen to Sunday morning on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Survivor 48 is here and alongside it we're bringing you a brand new season of On Fire, the only official Survivor podcast. If you're a Survivor super fan you won't want to miss this deep dive into every episode where we break down how we design the game, the biggest moves, your burning questions. It's the only podcast that gives you inside access to Survivor that nobody else can. Listen to On Fire, the official Survivor podcast with me Jeff Kropes every Wednesday after the show wherever you get your podcasts.