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Oracle.com slash cbs. Good morning. I'm Jane Pauley and this is Sunday Morning. If you've ever spotted a celebrity in a restaurant or at an airport or anywhere in public really, you've no doubt felt that strange mix of awkwardness coupled with delight that moment can bring. And then the inevitable thorny question of etiquette to approach and say hello or just look on in silence.
So why does seeing stars make us, well, starstruck? Susan Spencer is taking a deep dive into the curious psychology of celebrity encounters. Journalist Janci Dunn long dreamed of meeting her rock and roll hero, Stevie Nicks. But what happened when that unlikely encounter became a reality? What's the first thing you remember about actually meeting your idol? I had an out of body experience.
I honestly did. Brushes with Celebrity coming up on Sunday morning. With a tenth studio album out this week, loads of awards, and a tour billboard has called the largest in rock history, Coldplay has cemented its status as one of the most successful bands of our time. So what's their secret?
This morning, they're sharing with Anthony Mason. Coldplay has been making hits for a quarter century now. Do you typically feel it right away?
Definitely. The songs of ours that have connected with the most people, they connected with me first. I was like, oh, this is really good, really good.
The amazing communal power of a Coldplay concert. Ahead on Sunday morning. If you like to make magic in the kitchen, or at least try, chances are you've got at least one of Ina Garten's cookbooks. Now she's out with a memoir and looking back with our Rita Braver. I'm so looking forward to being in the same place. To see Ina Garten now with a popular cooking show. Look how gorgeous that is. Did I do OK?
You did fantastic. And a slew of bestselling cookbooks. You would never guess how miserable her childhood was. On the surface, it seemed like a very comfortable life.
I wasn't allowed to make a decision on my own. Later on Sunday morning, Ina Garten shares her secrets. That's doing really well. In this age when you can't always believe what you read or see, Chris Livesay takes us to Finland.
Where teaching kids to spot scams and debunk fake news begins in kindergarten. David Pogue talks with Malcolm Gladwell, one of the most influential and provocative writers working today. We'll show you a collection of some of the most cinematic vehicles ever to star in a James Bond movie. As seen by Cowan.
Lee Cowan. And more. This last Sunday morning of the month, September 29th, 2024.
And we'll be back in a moment. This episode is brought to you in part by Progressive. Most of you aren't just listening right now. You're driving, cleaning and even exercising. But what if you could be saving money by switching to Progressive? Drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average.
And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Multitask right now. Quote today at Progressive.com. For many of us, a chance encounter with a celebrity is an exhilarating, unforgettable moment. A story to tell the grandchildren. But why do these brushes with fame leave us starstruck? Susan Spencer gets to the bottom of it.
Journalist Jancie Dunn admits it. She has been obsessed with rock star Stevie Nicks ever since high school. I listened to Stevie's music for hours and hours and hours. I tried to dress in an ill-advised moment like Stevie. And she's just kind of bound up in my early years in a way that is really intense and deeply personal. The years flew by, but her feelings never faded. So imagine her joy when in 1997, Harper's Bazaar assigned her to interview Stevie Nicks at her California home.
Dunn began prepping immediately. I'm just in front of the mirror. Hello, Stevie. Hello, Stevie. Hello, Stevie. Hello, Stevie.
Stevie, Jancie. Did she understand what a fan you were? I kept it together so I wouldn't creep her out. I don't think she fully knew what a fan that I was. I mean, you know, I knew to kind of pull it back. I was probably smart. Right?
The interview even featured a surreal tour of the rock star's closet, filled with capes she had worn on stage and her famous platform boots. You've said that this was one of the happiest afternoons of your life. Yes. Correct? Oh, indubitably.
Yes, it was. Stevie handed me this shirt. That precious autographed T-shirt is her only keepsake today. So where do you keep this? Do you have a bank vault?
I have it folded very crisply in a little special place in my closet. Did you at any point in this afternoon say to yourself, you know what, this is fun and this is great, but she's just a person like me? No. Why would I think that? Never did I think that.
Because it's not true, Susan. She's different. She's otherworldly. Why are we always so excited over celebrities? In many ways, celebrities embody a lot of the things we all want.
They have some combination of talent and good looks and wealth and renown. Sociologist Carrie Ferris, a professor at Northern Illinois University, has a database of dozens of celebrity encounter stories. There's a whole sort of category of encounters that involve physical contact, and fans really get excited about that. I touched so and so? Yes, I touched so and so. I gave them a hug. I shook their hand.
I sat next to them on the bus. And then what happens? And then they get off the bus. So much for that. Right, it's very fleeting. Yeah. But it becomes the nugget of the celebrity sighting story. Ferris says these stories typically follow a pattern. First comes disbelief.
Is that really Beyonce? Then strategizing. Should I go introduce myself? And then, often, embarrassment. People get really worried about how stupid they must have sounded, looked, or seemed. Perhaps for good reason. I think to most people the mystery of these things is that the person feels a very strong connection, and yet there's no connection at all.
For sure. Psychologists will call this the parasocial. It's like a parasocial effect.
Parasocial is just a fancy term for the one-sided relationship between celebrity and fan, says University of Indianapolis professor Travis Cooper, who teaches in the philosophy and religion department. The fan is going to typically know a whole lot about the star. Maybe their life history depends on the level of fandom.
What time they feed their dog. Exactly, yeah. And the star is going to know nothing about that fan. That makes the intensity of it all the more mystifying.
It does. I think that's part of what makes it so surprising, so mystifying. Cooper should know. He's had his own celebrity encounter. One day, to his surprise, he spotted the actor Jesse Eisenberg at his local Y. You've referred to this as two worlds colliding. Explain to me what you meant by that. I had my academic training, all that stuff kind of in my head that filters out how I see the world, all that on the one hand. And then on the other hand, I had this very visceral experience. So on the other hand, it's, oh my God, it's Jesse Eisenberg.
Yeah, yeah. Are you embarrassed by your response? There was a slight embarrassment, almost a giddiness, almost a fanboy kind of reaction at some point.
You don't consider yourself a fanboy. I'd like to not, but I feel like in that moment, that's kind of what happened. It's amazing, though, in a crowd of people, if you just mention, oh, I just saw Meryl Streep, you'll stop the conversation. It's a brush with a person larger than life, and so maybe some of that glory from that person rubs off on you. So we irrationally treasure these relationships, says Vance Ricks, a professor at Northeastern University in Boston. It's a little funny or ironic to call it a relationship when it's so unidirectional. So what you're often doing is projecting a sense of being understood by that person or of knowing about that person. As a philosophy professor, what does this tell you in general about the human condition?
Oh, that's an easy question. Many of us want some kind of attachment, and in some cases, we may create that. Journalist Jancie Dunn felt that attachment, especially when after she interviewed Stevie Nicks, the rock star graciously invited her to be an overnight houseguest. I thought, okay, should I, shouldn't I? Wait a minute, why would you even think should I or shouldn't I? This is supposedly your dream, right?
It seemed invasive, it seemed weird. So you said no? I said no, and I got in the cab and as I'm pulling away, I mean, I couldn't have been two blocks down the street where I thought, you idiot. She feels the same regret decades later and even wrote about it for the New York Times, where she's a columnist for the Wells section. Even now, if I'm at the grocery store or the pharmacy and I hear Edge of 17 or one of Stevie's hits, I get a pain in my heart. I get a pain in my heart. If perchance Stevie Nicks likes Sunday morning and watches this show, what would you like to say to her? Stevie, if you were to invite me over to your house again, I would happily spend the night, I would clean up in the morning, and I would be a very good guest.
Okay, just wait for that invitation. This podcast is supported by Progressive, America's number one motorcycle insurer. Everything is more exhilarating when you're on your motorcycle, just like your bike is more protected when you choose Progressive Motorcycle Insurance. They offer coverage for your bike starting as low as $75 per year, and they keep things affordable with discounts like paid in full, multi-policy, and responsible driver. So raise your kickstands and get to quoting at progressive.com to see if you could save. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates' $75 premium is for state minimum coverage. Not available in DC.
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Visit fram.com for more info and retailers near you. For more than 60 years, James Bond has been chasing down villains by air, land, and sea. So what happened to all those made-for-the-movies vehicles? Lee Cowan takes us on a treasure hunt. These seven actors lucky enough to play 007 have found themselves in some pretty crazy contraptions. Sean Connery in something called an autogyro. George Lazenby tucked into a bobsled. Roger Moore in a microjet.
Fill her up, please. And then, of course, there's the recurring Aston Martin, the classiest conveyance of all. The theater that I saw it in, people stood up and applauded when they saw the car. It was like another character in the movie. Goldfinger! Jim Redemius was eight years old when his dad took him to see Goldfinger.
He's never forgotten that father-son moment, the first of many to follow. Up until when my father passed away, we had seen all the Bond movies together. Bond. James Bond. The fictional British Secret Service agent has been featured in more than two dozen films over the last 60-plus years.
Most differently with different generations, but for Doug, they all mattered. The former postal worker started collecting, small stuff mostly. If it was Bond, he bought it. But one day, he heard about something big, really big. The Intrepid Aircraft Carrier Museum in New York called the producers of the Bond movies in California and said, we have a submarine of yours.
Do you want it back? And they were like, what? It was the two-person submersible from For Your Eyes Only. Doug bought it for $3,000 and he stuck it in his backyard about an hour south of Chicago. We didn't know what we were going to do with it. Whispers about a guy who owned a Bond sub got loud enough that People Magazine heard about it. And then you started getting calls?
We started getting calls and finding other vehicles and that's how it got started. That yellow helicopter behind us, well that starred in From Russia With Love. Doug got a tip about where that was, too. That is the best scene, when he's just sitting there holding it and he shoots it out of his head. He drops it inside the cockpit.
It breaks yourself. Another tip led him to the fiberglass Aston Martin that made this very slippery getaway in the living daylights. Doug found it nesting with the birds in a barn in the UK. The ski actually still works. No way.
It's coming at you. Is that great? No way.
Can you swim? Nothing though really beats the Lotus submarine car from The Spy Who Loved Me. The producers left it behind in the Bahamas.
It sat outside on cinder blocks for years. What you really enjoy the most is the hunt, right? The search.
For me, when I get a sniff of anything that might turn out that I think it's real, that's what keeps me motivated. He's ended up rubbing elbows with Bond stars, even appearing as an extra in License to Kill. So can you see yourself in there? If you know where to look. If you want to know where to look at his collection, there are plenty of places, including here. There's the 007 exhibit at the Griffin Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago, where Doug has some of his more than 40 vehicles on display. He's showing off Zao's ice-jousting Jaguar XKR from Die Another Day. He's also got the jet boat from The World Is Not Enough.
Occasionally, to keep it in good running order, somebody has to drive it. Yep, that's Doug, sitting right where Pierce Brosnan did. None of these are his, technically. They belong to the Ian Fleming Foundation, a nonprofit that Doug helped found in 1992. It's named for the British novelist and car enthusiast himself who wrote the original Bond stories back in the 50s and 60s.
Money earned from Bond exhibitions, like another one underway at the International Spy Museum in Washington, D.C., all help support the storage and restoration for the rest of the Foundation's collection. Literally the roof of the shed had collapsed in on it. That's the hook and ladder truck from View to a Kill.
And that's the Kenworth, used for this unforgettable stunt in License to Kill. Well, the padding from the movie is still here. If you hadn't spent all this time doing all this, what would have happened to all this? Most all of it would have rotted away. Nothing in there, right?
Nothing in there, yet. That sadly is all that's left of the 1971 Ford Mustang Mach 1. They've got Sean Connery out of a pretty tight squeeze. When you see the shape it's in now, it's sacrilegious.
Just don't cut yourself. Once they get the money, volunteers will start restoring it. But for the last three years, they've been too busy bringing the Foundation's newest and biggest find back to life.
It's the front half of the executive jet from Goldfinger, that first Bond film Doug saw with his dad all those years ago. Did the Boneyard know what they had? No, they didn't.
They knew that Elvis had flown in it and they knew that Muhammad Ali had flown in it. And I didn't tell them that James Bond had been in it until after we bought it. That's a nice touch.
Well, that's my idea. I just thought it was great. Doug Rodenius is still that eight-year-old kid at heart. When was the last time you drove this?
Just before it went on display. And every once in a while when that kid gets the better of him, and he gets behind the wheel of one of his finds, he knows he's done his dad's memory proud. He also is reminded of some very good advice that Bond himself was once given. Need I remind you 007 that you have a license to kill, not to break the traffic laws? I wouldn't think of it.
Good. In this era of disinformation almost everywhere, a question. When it comes to identifying scams, hoaxes, and fake news, are you smarter than a fourth grader?
The answer might surprise you, as Chris Livesay discovered. They say that Finland values education is an understatement. No, that's not Finnish they're speaking. This is a Spanish class at a public elementary school in the capital Helsinki. And yet their language proficiency is not the only thing that makes these fourth grade Finns so remarkable. At just 10 years old, they're already learning to separate fact.
Can you figure out which is the fake news? From fiction. Today's assignment, let's find out if an alien really did land on earth in the past decade.
Yep, they also speak English. I don't think that there has been ever somebody who's seen an alien. So like it's already fake because it says that it was 10 years ago in 2013 and still nobody has seen aliens ever. So you're saying that if this happened 10 years ago, you probably would have heard about an alien.
Yes. These kids are already pros. They've been at it since they were six. And they'll keep sharpening their ability to spot hoaxes, avoid scams, and debunk propaganda throughout their education.
Just like every child in Finland. Lee Anderson is the former education minister. I think it should be seen as a civic skill in the current society that we live in. Because we all live in an information society nowadays. Or it's called an information society, right? But actually some of the information is misinformation. For this small Nordic nation of just five and a half million rooting out misinformation as a civic skill born of necessity. Over the years, Finland has found itself the target of fake news campaigns by a longtime foe, Russia. A few examples. Pro-Russian trolls circulating videos and making debunked claims of Finnish tanks mobilizing at the Russian border.
In reality, they were heading to a training exercise in the opposite direction. The same Russian media has been stoking anti-migrant sentiment in Finland. Finnish cities will be surrounded by a ring of burning ghettos. Fueling protests and violence against refugees. The misinformation war has Finns worried about the powerful neighbor with whom they share an 800 mile long border. After all, Finns have seen how Russia has treated another neighbor, Ukraine. Last year, Finland joined NATO and they're building a wall along the border with Russia. But it's this fake news firewall. For example, the Russian news site.
Does anyone have anything on that? They're counting on to safeguard this or any country's most precious resource, the truth. Economist, New York Times.
Media literacy, as it's called, is woven into every class, like high school English with Mrs. Terhi Korpala. And I also provided you with fake news sites, as they call them. Here, they learned to spot the red flags. This article says that Facebook's AI chat backs up the claim that 2020 president election was rigged.
And instead of the current President Joe Biden, the real winner was actually Donald Trump. Then back up their reasoning. I'm very critical about this article and the whole site. The gateway pundit is far right side and it's known for being biased and publishing fake news.
Zamzam Muhammad grew up going to American schools abroad. Were you taught to identify fake news? Not really. It was only here when I started to like get that, you know. I used to have questions, but every time I would ask them, the teacher or anybody else would be like, no, this is the way it is. Like this is written here. But only here now that I've come here, I'm able to like question things a lot. So critical thinking is a real priority here. It's a huge priority here.
One that gives English teacher Terhi Korpala hope for the future. I have to say, I was very impressed. Good. Good to hear. Yeah. I wish more adults were capable of doing what these kids are doing.
I wish the exact same thing. I sometimes at home, we know I have discussions with my husband and they are not as sort of civilized as the youngsters. By virtually every global standard, Finland ranks near the top in education. But when it comes to resilience against false information, Finland is the top first out of 41 European countries, according to a recent survey. Educators credit a system that begins the moment they enter public school, when their lives still revolve around fairy tales and playing pretend.
Sana Lindau teaches kindergarten. These are kids who still believe in the Easter Bunny and in Santa Claus. Definitely. Yeah.
You're not telling them that's fake news, are you? Well, I think that with the Santa Claus, I leave it to the parents. We act together or we play, we draw. We can live in the fantasy world as well, of course. Ah, so there is a place for fantasy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. But there's also a place to start familiarizing children with the differences between advertisements and stories, poems and publicity, she says. All while teaching the country's youngest how to navigate and understand the Internet.
Former Education Minister Lee Anderson. You start from preschool, I think, as I said, it's more about familiarizing children also with what the digital world is, to make sure that all children have a sufficient set of digital skills. And on top of that, you also have to teach them how to act in the digitalized world, how to interpret different types of texts and so on.
It's a skill, she insists, that's not only central to Finland's education system, it's central to Finland's democracy. I guess for me, the big question is, what's at stake? I mean, what happens if kids come out of school and they can't identify the difference between fake news and legitimate news? If that happens, I think it makes our societies very vulnerable. I think it will also polarize political discussion.
There is a saying in Finnish, you have the right to your own opinion, but you do not have the right to your own facts. For more than 200 years, Brooks Brothers has been the premier source for the best shirts. Anyone who has worn Brooks Brothers, and that includes US presidents, Hollywood legends and art world icons, knows that a Brooks Brothers shirt means quality. Did you know Brooks Brothers invented the button-down collar in 1900 and the button-down Oxford shirt, a fashion innovation that's inspired countless imitators? There's simply no shirt like a Brooks Brothers shirt.
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I can't hear myself die. The fun of watching her as the prickly, imperious Lady Violet Crawley, Dowager Countess of Grantham in Downton Abbey, was waiting for those withering one-liners. Hope is a tease designed to prevent us accepting reality. Oh, you only say that to sound clever.
I know. Maggie Smith said she never watched the show. This is what she told Steve Croft on 60 Minutes in 2013. If you don't watch the finished product, what do you get out of it? It's the delight of acting. Regarded as one of Britain's greatest actors, she won a Tony, four Emmys, three Golden Globes, and two Academy Awards. Her first Oscar in 1970 was for Best Actress in The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, about a controversial teacher in a Scottish girls' school. I am a teacher first, last, always. Do you imagine that for one instant I will let that be taken from me without a fight?
Her second in 1979 was for Best Supporting Actress in California Suite, a comedy about an actress who didn't win an Oscar. I'm getting lines in my face. I look like a brand new steel-belted radio tire. Younger moviegoers got to know her as Minerva McGonagall in the Harry Potter films. Perhaps it would be more useful if I were to transfigure Mr. Potter and yourself into a pocket watch. That way one of you might be on time. But still, she saw herself as an actor, not a star, primarily a stage actor.
What an invigorating prospect. Until Downton Abbey suddenly made her world famous at 75, more than 50 years into her career. Life was fine. Nobody knew who the hell I was. It has changed. By the time Dame Maggie Smith died Friday at 89, a lot of people knew who the hell she was and won't forget her.
The question they may have is, I do. Was she just acting, or was she really like that? Don't be defeatist there.
It's very middle class. You might say Ina Garten's life has been an open book, thanks to her popular TV shows and best-selling cookbooks. But now she's opening up like never before and talking with our Rita Braver. So we're going to start with bourbon. The key to this is that it's fresh juice. You know, so many times you go to a bar or restaurant and they make whiskey sours with, like, bottled lemon juice.
It's just the worst. Even making a cocktail with Ina Garten is a learning experience. But boy, is it worth it. Cheers.
Cheers to you. Olive oil because it has a higher burning temperature and the butter because it has great flavor. Of course, the kitchen in her studio in East Hampton, New York. So this takes a little time, but time takes time. Is familiar to millions of viewers. Wow. Of her Emmy Award-winning cooking shows on the Food Network. But still, someone warned me that you don't like to call yourself a chef. Well, I'm not.
I'm not a trained chef. In fact, as she writes in her new memoir, Be Ready When the Luck Happens, back in the 1970s, she and her husband Jeffrey were both working in economic policy jobs at the White House. But their after-hours therapy, as she puts it, was hosting dinner parties for friends. And I just thought, wait a minute, this is backwards.
I love what I do after hours, and what I do during the day wasn't so exciting to me. Just after her 30th birthday, she was reading the New York Times. And there was this little ad for a specialty food store called Bare for Contessa, and I went home that night and I said to Jeffrey, I need to do something creative. And that was the beginning of it.
They bought the shop for $20,000, taking a second mortgage on their D.C. home. Jeffrey would commute on weekends while Ina ran the store. It seems especially surprising and daring, because growing up it seems like you were not allowed to go off the beaten track in any way. It's not just that I wasn't allowed to go off the beaten track. I wasn't allowed to make a decision on my own.
She was born Ina Rosenberg in 1948 and grew up in Stamford, Connecticut, where her father was a doctor and her mom stayed at home. It seemed like a very comfortable life. It was a very comfortable life. But there was a family secret. You say that your father was prone to temper tantrums. He would physically beat you. Well, he'd hit me, yeah.
And sometimes drag you around by your hair. Yeah, it was bad. It was bad.
I mean, come on. You have said at times you actually feared for your life. I think I wanted to fight back, but I was afraid he would kill me. Did your mother protect you in any way? Maybe she was as afraid as I was. But her life would change when she was just 16.
While visiting her brother at Dartmouth College, another student named Jeffrey Garton spotted her through the library window. What did you find so attractive? Everything. Absolutely everything. The way she was standing, she was laughing, and she was just beautiful. He wangled an introduction, and they were married in 1968 with Jeffrey in his Army Reserve uniform. Hi, sweetie.
Oh, that looks great. While he is sometimes a congenial presence on Ina's shows, he is also a noted economist. I'd love some wine. That'd be fabulous. I saved all the letters he wrote to me when we were in college.
Ina credits Jeffrey with giving her confidence after her miserable childhood. Some of these I can't show you, but let's see what we have. Why not? Why not?
Definitely not showing you that. But not about one key thing. Were you scared that you wouldn't be a good parent?
Absolutely, 100 percent. Jeffrey would have been a fabulous parent. Just fabulous. And what did you think about not having children? I didn't think so much about it.
I was very busy just moving on, so it didn't bother me. Ina threw herself into running the Barefoot Contessa with well-heeled Hamptons clients. I love the story about the woman who every week bought ten pounds of lemon chicken. Grilled lemon chicken. And finally, after weeks and weeks and weeks of this, I had to say, what are you doing with ten pounds of grilled lemon chicken?
She said, my cat likes it. But after a while, as Ina reveals for the first time, she began to question the traditional mid-century roles in her marriage and asked Jeffrey for a separation. I love to cook dinner, but what I don't like is for somebody to expect me to cook dinner. I think there's a big difference. Yes, that's a great point.
So what I say is, don't cook dinner. They clearly worked out their problems. You know, I love that it's a small town. Ina moved her store to East Hampton. We had screen doors when you walked in.
But sold it in 1996. She was restless and wanted to try something new. Bookhampton, the East Hampton bookstore. My favorite bookstore in the world.
It's the best. So she turned her talents to writing cookbooks, the thing that really introduced her to the world outside the Hamptons. Her first, published 25 years ago, was a smash hit. I somehow connected with home cooks in a way that I couldn't have imagined. Now she's done 12 more. But I think it's kind of like exercise.
The more you do it, the better you get at it. And with another cookbook on the way. And a popular TV show. I'm here with Stanley Tucci and he's showing me how to make a fish stew called Cachuko.
Ina Garten says she's doing what she loves. And what's more, before he died, she got an apology from her father. He said, I don't know what I was thinking. That was it. And I realized he tortured himself as much as he tortured me. And it was over. It was so simple and it was so effective. And it meant everything.
And then we went on to have a good relationship. Welch's knows some things make zero sense. Like why the algorithm knows your music tastes better than you do. But zero sugar and full flavor? We made that make sense with New Welch's Zero Sugar. All that passion fruit or tropical punch goodness and none of the sugar. You got to sip it to get it.
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Or am I part of the disease? Singing to you. For decades, Coldplay has been one of the biggest rock bands on the planet. Now they're back with new music and a record breaking world tour. Anthony Mason caught up with them on the road. Dublin's Grafton Street was mobbed last month when word spread that Coldplay was coming. To shoot the video for their new single. I was a little nervous for you there in the beginning.
Yeah, but you have to just trust in the goodness of people and the proficiency of the police. Lead singer Chris Martin was joined by collaborators Burna Boy, Teenie, Eliana and Little Sims. The five of us actually had never actually played the song in the same place before. So our first time doing it was on the street in the middle of all those people. Coldplay was in Dublin for four sold out nights at Croke Park on their Music of the Spheres world tour. With ticket sales topping more than 10 million and box office of over a billion dollars, Billboard has crowned it the biggest rock tour of all time. You guys are in the middle of like a record, literally a record breaking tour. Does it feel like that to you?
Sometimes it's hard to see the wood for the trees, you know. It was definitely extremely loud last night. We're aware that we're having such a great time. We're really enjoying ourselves and so it's been, it's been amazing.
It really has. Drummer Will Champion, bassist Guy Berryman, guitarist Johnny Buckland and Martin haven't always felt the love, especially in the early years. But critics who once asked, why does everyone hate Coldplay, are now calling them the 21st century's defining band. What's interesting to me now is it seems like you've kind of been fully embraced, even by the music critics. Well, you're very sweet. I mean, that's just not true.
Don't think you're ever fully embraced. Yeah. Well, that is true. Also, we are really not a rock band. So when we're judged by those parameters, we're always going to come up short. Yeah.
One thing I'd say that we've become more comfortable with is just being ourselves. Their catalogue of hits stretches across a quarter of a century. The truth of it is some songs arrive fully formed, basically. Not Johnny's parts or Will's or Guy's parts, but my part. And those are the rarest, but they're always the best. The ones that I had least to do with.
But sometimes they're the hardest to produce because you don't want to ruin them. Do you typically feel it right away? Definitely. Yeah. The songs of ours that have connected with the most people, they connected with me first. I thought, oh, this is really good, really good.
A song called Yellow. Yeah, it's a bet on, yeah. Viva La Vida.
Fix You. All of the big ones. Yeah. Sky Full of Stars. The sky full of stars.
They just land. So in a strange way, you're listening to it. You're the first person to listen to it.
That's what it feels like. With the song We Pray, we were in Taiwan on tour about ten months ago. I think it was after a show and I woke up in the middle of the night. This song was just in my head called We Pray.
And it said you have to get out of bed and do this now. Some shelter and some rest across the place, I will be singing my writing. You sang that with all of the contributors last night for the first time on a stage. How does it feel when you put a song like that out there in that moment? To have heard a song in the middle of the night in Taiwan, and then ten months later it's on stage in Dublin, that's in itself an amazing journey. I'm praying on your love, we pray with every breath. How early did you start writing songs?
The first one arrived when I was about eleven. On a day off in Dublin, Martin told us he's always writing, even while on the road. We have a studio backstage. You do?
Wow. Every morning he sits down to write free form. You write whatever you're thinking about. I do that as a way of staying sane. For twelve minutes in the mornings I write anything that's in my head and it's often very terrible. And very depressed or very anxious.
All of the stuff that you don't really want anyone else to hear but you need to release. So I do that for twelve minutes and then I burn it. You literally light it on fire.
Or tear it up and flush it away. And it just kind of gets rid of so much nonsense. It definitely helps in a band too because in the old days we would have a lot more tension and a lot more volatility.
But that's calmed down a lot. There is an incredible sense of community in your concerts. I think this is the point where we are most happy. I think we got to that point by being in a band for twenty-five years. And then finally sort of it all clicking into place. Is that just a process of time? I think it's a process of time and hard work. We've worked quite hard on how we communicate with each other and giving each other space. We tour a lot slower now.
We only do about sixty-five shows a year which isn't that many. It feels like I'm falling in love Coldplay's new record, Moon Music, is the band's tenth studio album. You said you'd release your last album in twenty-twenty-five. Is that right? It was right and it was wrong. Like most things I say.
You've said that a number of times. It was ambitious. It was ambitious. We are only going to do twelve proper Coldplay albums but we're a little bit behind.
Not too far behind. We're asking for an extension. Why twelve albums? That's just what it's supposed to be. I don't think anyone needs more than that from us.
The Beatles did twelve. Do you guys have other things you want to do? Is that part of this?
Not at all. We'd like to keep playing live. So that goes on. Oh yeah, yeah. That gets better and better. I don't want to stop Coldplay. You can't stop Coldplay.
Chris Martin says he has to keep sprinting across stadiums. Why do you have to? I think it's like asking Apple Tree, why does it make apples? That's because that's what I was made to do.
And also I'm really happy doing it. And when it comes to your home, one second you feel safe and the next, something goes wrong. But with ADT's 24-7 professional monitoring, you still feel safe.
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Fuel up at Shell. He's one of the best-known and best-selling writers working today. The thoughtful and thought-provoking Malcolm Gladwell.
He's sitting down for a meeting of the minds with our David Pogue. On Tuesday, a new Malcolm Gladwell book comes out. And if history is any guide, it will be a best-seller. They're stories about ideas. They have characters, they have plots.
I'm usually trying to say something about the world. His first book, The Tipping Point, published in 2000, established the Gladwell recipe. He explores a theme through anecdotes and little-known scientific studies. Tipping Point was about the epidemic is an incredibly useful way of understanding how ideas move through society. And epidemics have rules.
So let's learn the rules. His seven New York Times best-sellers have sold 23 million copies in North America alone. His fee for corporate speeches is $350,000. My podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. His fans have downloaded a quarter of a billion episodes of his podcast, Revisionist History, and he founded a company called Pushkin Industries to produce it. Wow, so this is Pushkin North.
Pushkin North, yeah. In other words, Gladwell has come a long way from the small Canadian town where he grew up, son of a British father and a Jamaican mother, whom he describes as subversive. I used to skip a lot of school.
My mom used to write me notes with a blank, you know, Malcolm Dyrso and so Malcolm is excused from class today, and then the date would be blank and I would just fill out the date. He attended the University of Toronto, but his best education was the 10 years he worked for the Washington Post. I knew nothing about newspapers. I was so raw.
I was 23, I think, or 24. Bob Woodward was two rows away from me. I learned at the feet of the greatest journalists of my generation. In 1996, Gladwell joined The New Yorker. He wrote about why, in the 90s, New York's crime rate plummeted in an article called The Tipping Point. And from that I get a book contract, and that's when the book comes out in 2000. That book introduced a recurring Gladwellian theme, hidden patterns in the way the world works. He's a world-class contrarian about college.
You should never go to the best institution you get into, never. About working from home. Sitting in your pajamas in your bedroom, is that the work life you want to live? About football. I think the sport is a moral abomination. Do you like being provocative? Of course. You know, I like poking the bear.
I mean, journalists should poke the bear. Thank you for buying six books. Gladwell's fans love his storytelling and the aha moments they bring. His critics, on the other hand, wow, they've described his writing as generalizations that are banal, obtuse, or flat wrong, and simple vacuous truths dressed up with flowery language. I mean, you cherry-pick your data, you confuse correlation with causation, you oversimplify, I mean, you've heard all that stuff. I'm fine with the idea that not everyone's going to like my work.
100% of people don't like anything. Last time we profiled you, you told Kellefosani. I would rather be interesting than correct. Yeah, that is an overly provocative way of saying things.
No, what I think what I meant was, if I turn out not to be right, I'm not devastated. I accept that as the price of doing business. And this is a studio. This is where it all happens. Gladwell often turns his mistakes into new chapters or podcast episodes. In The Tipping Point, he explained that New York's crime drop was the result of broken windows policing. As he says in an upcoming episode, Little crimes were tipping points for big crimes. But that philosophy led to New York's policy of stop and frisk. Yes, doing 700,000 police stops a year of young black and Hispanic men is deeply problematic, and we were wrong. I was part of that.
I'm sorry. Which brings us to the new book, Revenge of the Tipping Point. The original Tipping Point is a very optimistic, rosy book about the possibilities for using the laws of epidemics to promote positive social change.
In the last 25 years, I've spent a lot of time thinking about the other side of that problem, which is what happens when people use the laws of epidemics in ways that are malicious or damaging or self-interested. The book's stories range from topics as obscure as cheetah reproduction to stories as big as the Holocaust. He writes that almost nobody talked about the Holocaust, or even called it that, NBC aired a miniseries called Holocaust in 1978. And what changed happened like that. I mean, it was just this kind of, there is a tipping point in our understanding of the Holocaust. The new book arrives at a tipping point in Gladwell's own life.
In a span of five years, he got engaged, had two children, turned 61, and moved from Manhattan to pastoral Hudson, New York. Is it a lot to handle, or is it all just going exactly according to the plan? Of course it's a lot to handle, but there isn't a single person who ever lived whose parents did not say. There's a lot. You know, I came quite late to parenthood.
It's like the best thing in the world. I have become the person that I once despised, and nothing makes me happier. He also despises Ivy League colleges, accusing them of prioritizing their own reputations over focusing on their students. If you want to get a science and math degree, don't go to Harvard. Has fatherhood affected your outlook on any of the things that you've written about before Ivy League schools? Well, it's prepared me for the possibility that I will be a massive hypocrite.
So, you know, it's one thing to write about what you should do with your kids when you don't have them. We're trying to do longer, more involved projects that push conditions. For all his success, Malcolm Gladwell maintains that nothing has changed in his approach, his work ethic, or his contrarianism. It hasn't changed what I do.
I don't farm out my research. I'm still in the thick of things. I still go on reporting trips, and it hasn't gotten old.
In fact, my great regret is I don't have time to do more. Hey, podcast listeners! Great news! All your favorite comedy podcasts can be enjoyed ad-free on Amazon Music. Listen to your favorite music, plus top podcasts, completely ad-free on Amazon Music, included with your Prime membership. Dive into a world of laughs by downloading the Amazon Music app for free, or go to amazon.com slash ad-free comedy.
That's amazon.com slash ad-free comedy to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. Hey Dave. Yeah, Randy? Since we founded Bombas, we've always said our socks, underwear, and t-shirts are super soft.
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Big comfort for everyone. Go to bombas.com slash wondery and use code wondery for 20% off your first purchase. Thank you for listening. Please join us when our trumpet sounds again next Sunday morning. Music If you like this podcast, you can listen ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a quick survey at wondery.com slash survey. I myself have been married for 56 years. Unfortunately to four different women.
You can work out a whole lot of shit in the hours of Target. Every week on the Moth Podcast, we share stories that are funny, strange, heartbreaking, and above all, true. I refuse to settle for being the future when I can be right now.
Listen along by searching The Moth wherever you get your podcasts. Are you in trouble with the law? Need a lawyer who will fight like hell to keep you out of jail?
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