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Tom Hanks on his first Novel, King Charles, Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen on Fatherhood

CBS Sunday Morning / Jane Pauley
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May 7, 2023 3:02 pm

Tom Hanks on his first Novel, King Charles, Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen on Fatherhood

CBS Sunday Morning / Jane Pauley

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May 7, 2023 3:02 pm

Hosted by Jane Pauley. In our cover story, Mark Phillips recounts Britain's coronation Saturday of a new monarch, King Charles III. Plus: Seth Doane talks with singer-songwriter Ed Sheeran; Ben Mankiewicz visits with Tom Hanks, actor and (now) novelist; Ted Koppel sits down with Henry Kissinger, who this month is turning 100; Anderson Cooper chats with Andy Cohen about the joys and frustrations of parenthood; and Kelefa Sanneh finds out how the Michelin Guide's anonymous inspectors rate restaurants, to award its coveted stars.

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That's Cerebral.com slash Wondery for 50% off your first month. Good morning. I'm Jane Pauley and this is Sunday Morning. Long live the King. Charles III was officially crowned King of the United Kingdom Saturday. In a Westminster Abbey ceremony filled with all the pomp and circumstance an estimated 100 million pounds can buy. With Mark Phillips, we'll look back at a coronation fit for a king. God save the King. How do you make a ritual that goes back almost a thousand years seem modern? That's what King Charles said he wanted to do.

Not everyone agreed. I don't think modernity is what we're in for. The coronation, modern or magnificent or both, coming up on Sunday morning. Seth Stone will be checking in with four-time Grammy winner Ed Sheeran, the self-described nerdy kid who's been very much in the news this past week. It has been a busy stretch for Ed Sheeran, releasing his latest album. You put all your heart and soul into this thing and you're really proud of it, but then when you put it out, who knows?

And passionately defending one of his biggest hits in court. Yeah, it just, it rolls me up, man. It rolls me up.

Ed Sheeran opens up ahead this Sunday morning. Our Ben Mankiewicz will be catching up with a first-time novelist who has a familiar name, Tom Hanks, a serious movie star who never takes himself all that seriously. Actors always go, are you going to be in here? Are you going to get a shot? Where's the camera going to be? What's the shot going to be? Tom Hanks is ready for his close-up.

This is what I used to do. I'd go in the mirror and I'd say, here's what I want to do, here's what I want to do with this thing, I want to go like this, here's what I want to do. Hamming it up and writing it down, the Oscar winner's first novel later on Sunday morning. Ever wonder just who's behind those elusive stars in the Michelin Guide?

Kellefer Sanneh embarks on a tasty tale of discovery. Ted Koppel sits down with renowned statesman and diplomat Henry Kissinger, still giving no quarter to the calendar, even at age 100. Plus, thoughts on fatherhood from Anderson Cooper and close friend Andy Cohen and more.

It's a Sunday morning for May 7th, 2023, and we'll be back after this. Scammers are best known for living the high life, globetrotting on private jets, dining at five star restaurants and driving six figure sports cars. That is until their house of cards collapses and they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit. Scam Fluencers is a podcast from Wondery hosted by Sarah Hagee and Sachi Cole that tells the unbelievable true stories behind some of the world's most infamous scams, swindlers and con artists. Scam Fluencers has covered jaw dropping scandals from Ponzi schemes to a fake Saudi prince to a sexual predator masquerading as a wholesome yoga guru. These scammers cost their victims hundreds of millions of dollars and a measurable emotional anguish.

So how does our culture allow them to thrive? Each story on Scam Fluencers will take you along the twists and turns, the impact on victims and what's left when the facade falls away. Follow Scam Fluencers wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. On a cold night in 2010, a boy is stopped by the police while walking home from a party in the Bronx. He's only 16. He's been stopped by the police before, but this time is different. In a special four part series, the Generation Y podcast unravels the story of Kalief Browder, a young boy who was falsely accused of stealing a backpack and held without bail at Rikers Island for three years. He endured regular abuse by prison staff and inmates and was held in solitary confinement for more than 700 consecutive days. Three years later, Kalief was released, never having stood trial. This is a story that digs into the injustice of the justice system and a young life caught in the middle. We say innocent until proven guilty.

But where do we draw the line between due process and cruelty? To hear this four part series, follow Generation Y wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Yesterday's coronation of Britain's King Charles III was a golden occasion from the crowns to the carriages. Mark Phillips has some royal highlights. This was billed as a slimmed down coronation for the more modern monarchy King Charles had promised.

Now we know what that looks like. It means taking the newer, lighter family coach, the six horsepower model from the palace to Westminster Abbey. Instead of the heavy, unwieldy eight horsepower gold state coach Charles's mother, the queen, and every monarch for two and a half centuries has used. It means holding a service where some of the participants were more reflective of today's British multicultural society.

It means cutting the service down from the seemingly endless more than three hours of 70 years ago to about two and a half hours this time. There was always controversy over just how much news should be added and how much old should be retained in the ancient right of crowning British monarchs that goes back almost a thousand years. Many think the spectacle is still a necessary part of the royal story. This is an historic, solemn, religious and state event, but it's also a TV show.

It is. And the king, as you know at the beginning, put out this expression that he wanted it to be more modest. Hugo Vickers is a royal historian. And he is absolutely delighted that people, including me, have said, well you may want it to be modest, we want it to be magnificent. There was plenty of magnificence, enough flowing robes and gold and jewels to make you squint, swords and orbs and sceptres representing ancient hereditary power and assumed heavenly approval. And if all that can seem very unmodern, well that's just the way it's always been. I mean, of course a coronation, rather like a monarchy, is completely irrational.

Robert Hardman is a royal author. Orbs, ointments, sceptres. Where is there a place for that kind of thing in the modern era? The fact is, we are where we are. We've evolved in this way.

As humans, we like ritual. And public opinion polls consistently show a solid majority supports the monarchy. But in a less deferential age, the monarchy isn't viewed with the same reverence anymore. All the same kind of nonsense of mystical oil being anointed, out of sight of cameras, the hand of god descending on our king. Pauline Toynbee is a newspaper columnist.

I think all that sort of folderol seems extraordinarily old-fashioned and peculiar. Like all stories involving this royal family, there were unavoidable subplots. When the crown was put on Queen Camilla's head, the woman who had been the third person in Charles' marriage to Princess Diana was finally having her day, and allowed herself a little smile. When the self-exiled Prince Harry arrived, alone, he was given a seat in the third row.

And as soon as the service was over, he hopped in a car, skipped the royal lunch, and jumped on a flight back to LA. Hi William, Prince of Wales. The leader of the monarchy is now firmly in the hands of his brother.

The Golden State coach was put into service for the return trip to the palace. No coronation, ancient or modern, would be complete without images like this. But will this coronation be remembered the way the Queen's was, as a turning point in history, when the grim post-war years gave way to a new optimism? Maybe, but that new queen was young. This king is old. Historians talk about coronations reflecting the nation, and the state of the nation, and the mood of the times. Roya Nika is royal editor of the London Sunday Times. And this country has been through a lot of turbulence in the last few years. Politically, economically, our own royal family has been through turbulence. And I think it's almost the opening of a new chapter and the turning of a page. Their friends and their fathers.

We asked Anderson Cooper, anchor of CNN's AC360 and contributor to 60 Minutes, to take on a different sort of assignment this morning, talking with pal Andy Cohen about fatherhood. Well, this is weird. It is a little weird. Well, it's very weird. Your whole body posture is weird. Am I weird? Yeah, you seem like formal.

This is not a different version. I suddenly feel very vulnerable. I don't know where this is going. You need to do your Barbara Walters Jedi thing right now and make me feel comfortable. So it turns out interviewing your closest friend is not so easy. I met Andy Cohen nearly 30 years ago.

He had really long hair then and was a young producer at CBS News. Over the years, we've become really close. We vacation together.

We are taking a mystery shot. Spend New Year's Eve together. And both of us decided to become dads in our early 50s. He's very lifelike. That's Lucy, Andy's daughter, who just turned one. His son Benjamin is four.

I have a three-year-old son, Wyatt, and a one-year-old named Sebastian. So what's Lucy done today? She went to music class.

Yes. It turns out we both wanted to have kids for similar reasons. Your mom loved that Peggy Lee song, Is That All There Is. That's where I was. I was approaching 50, and I heard that song in my head. I was like, there's got to be a greater purpose for me.

This is wonderful, and I absolutely love it. But this is not, there has to be a greater purpose. How has parenting changed you? How are you different? I mean, I think it's changed me in every way. I mean, I think my priorities have completely shifted. I think my sense of accomplishment has totally changed. And even just getting your kids breakfast and getting them out to school. When I drop him off at school, I'm like, you did it, dude.

That was a rough two and a half hours. You know, like, you did that. Do you feel? I mean, yes, I do. Has Wyatt moved to a toddler bed yet?

No. What is your obsession with toddler beds? Well, call me when Wyatt moves to a toddler bed. It is hell. How hard can a toddler bed?

Oh, you are messing with your life. Basically, what we're all doing with All Do is keeping our children in a cage, which is the crib, OK? No, I mean, they can't get out. It's not a real, it's a beautiful, you know. But like, the toddler bed is a nightmare.

That's an expressway? Because they now have free will. And they are coming to you at all hours. All of the rules, no more. The lines are blurred and the power shifts.

Young Benjamin holds the keys to the castle. Andy writes about his new life with kids in his fun and fast-paced new book, Daddy Diaries, The Year I Grew Up, the third in a best-selling series of diaries he's written. Yeah, I know, I'm trying to get this off, but I can't. It's about the high highs and low lows of being a single dad who also works long hours in the center ring of an often manic media circus. He has two radio channels on Sirius XM, a book imprint, a late-night talk show on Bravo, and he presides over the Real Housewives franchise. You said you sat in Julio Iglesias' lap as an executive producer and host of those drama-filled reunions. I think this book is really as much a statement about pop culture in the year 2022 as it is about being a father or my life and what I did. How so?

What do you mean? Well, because I think it's a reflection on how pop culture works in a weird way. The sheer number of celebrity encounters you have, it's like, oh, Meghan McCain texted me and Cher, and Jane Fonda gave me advice about raising a girl. I love dropping names. And I feel like if you're going to write a book like this that's inspired by Andy Warhol's diaries, you better be prepared to drop some names. And I think that's one of the reasons why I latch onto this format so much, because I think it's fun. When you're hosting a talk show, you're interacting with everyone who's kind of in the mix and in the zeitgeist. And I'm certainly trying to create water cooler moments that feed into that pop culture machine. There's a lot of stuff I learned about you in this book that I hadn't known. You subscribe to a service that emails you every morning with clippings any time your name is mentioned?

On television. Are you insane? Why would you do that? I think it's interesting. Well, of course you think it's interesting. It's about you. Well, I mean, I don't send the clippings to you.

I mean, it's for me. It's my own thing. I always like to take stock on where I am in the world. You say, I can't believe how much my life has changed, how much I'm building for my family's future. It's a heaviness I've never felt, but also a sense of sureness that feels good.

What is the heaviness? Well, you know, it's interesting. I've never, as I think you know, I am not someone who worries. I am not someone who walks around. I've never met anybody who is as happy and optimistic and enjoys their life more than you.

And I think this year for the first time, I think having Lucy, my second child, I think suddenly I was like, wow, I have two kids. I'm doing this alone. You obviously, you have help. Yes. And doing this without a partner, did that give you great pause? I'm happy to say it didn't.

I just thought I want to do this and I'm doing it and I know it's going to be really hard and I don't know what that actually means. Has it changed the way you think about finding somebody to be involved with? I mean, is the bar a different bar for what the person needs to be like? Yeah. I mean, I think that some, you know, go-go dancer that you would be trying to set me up with three years ago maybe wouldn't be the... Have I tried to sit you over the go-go dancer?

No, but why haven't you? Anyway... But are you really ready to... I don't know that you're ready to have somebody there all the time.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I got two kids here all the time. So what makes you think I'm not ready? Like, have I not shown enough that I'm settling down? I mean, what do I have to prove to you? Good morning.

Good morning to you. Andy often Instagrams about some of the joys... You're crying because you want to stay at the supermarket? ...and frustrations of being a parent.

And I've noticed he's starting to sound a little bit like his mom, Evelyn Cohen, but I wasn't sure how to mention it to him. Do you find yourself becoming your parents? One of the things I realized in writing the book is that I am becoming Evelyn Cohen, who looks for and finds things to worry about. And I now am in my bed with a carousel of worry, churning in my head. It's not fun. It's not who I am.

I'm like, who is this guy? What do you worry about most with them now? As a single parent, I just worry about being everything to them. And I want to be everything to them.

And I know how impossible that is in a weird way. If I spend three hours with Ben and then I have to go to work, you know, you're at work and you're like, did I spend enough time with Ben today? If Ben tells me that I'm his best friend or he grabs for my hand to hold it or he cuddles me extra tight, I mean, there's not going to be a bigger win in my day than that. Hmm. That's sweet. You're sweet. Marry me. Do you want to get married someday?

To you? No. Was that a proposal? Are you proposing? Do I want to get married?

I got to tell you something. Not only do I love love, but how fun would my wedding be? If you're searching for the perfect place to dine, let the stars lead the way. Michelin stars, of course.

California is our guide. So I know I could never cook this. Let's see if I could successfully eat this. Even to an untrained palate.

It has that like earthiness to it. This duck entree. Oh, and the crunch. Oh, I'm taking another bite.

Go for it. What I prepared by Mary Atiyah, executive chef at the Musket Room in New York, is really nice and it really isn't like anything I've had before. With dishes like that.

Now we're just going to set the dish. Atiyah has earned tons of praise and one coveted title. Michelin starred chef and that's something that'll follow you around forever.

If I think too much about it, it gets a little overwhelming, but it is something I'm really proud of. The Musket Room opened 10 years ago. It was awarded a Michelin star in 2014 and every year since. Atiyah took over in the kitchen in 2020.

I felt like I had some big shoes to fill to kind of maintain the standard that was here, but also impart my own vision on it. The Michelin Guide's restaurant reviewers, known as Inspectors, took note. They said Mary Frances Atiyah is the master and commander of this restaurant. Is that the phrase you were expecting?

It wasn't, but you know, I'll take it. The work of Kamari Mick, the executive pastry chef, was recognized too. And they said that the desserts were thought-provoking. We were a bunch of nerds.

Yeah, we are. I wanted to have meaning and not just be random ingredients thrown together just because they sound cool. There should be a little bit of a story behind it. Congratulations again for the Michelin star. Gwendal Poulanek is the Guide's international director at Michelin, known for its Michelin man, and for the slogan, Michelin, because so much is riding on your tires. Do you still sell tires?

We do. But the ones making the tires are not the professional anonymous inspectors eating out in the restaurants every day. The Michelin Guide, first published in 1900, began awarding stars to restaurants in France about 100 years ago. The founding brothers, Frere and Michelin, had this brilliant idea to have a guide to help the people travel. Today, international teams of inspectors review restaurants in countries around the world, including this one, with guides in Washington, California, New York, Chicago, and, as of last year, Florida. So the idea is while you're driving around on our car tires, here are some places you might stop for a meal. One star is worth a stop, two star worth a detour, and three star worth a special journey. Restaurants often brag about having a Michelin star, or two or three. There are only about 140 three-star restaurants worldwide, but the inspectors who award them are strictly anonymous.

We sat down with one on the condition that we not reveal his name or his face. What do your friends think you do for a living? They know I'm still in the industry, they just don't know what I do exactly. He says he has experience in hotel dining and a degree from culinary school. He's been a Michelin inspector for about 20 years. Have you ever been made?

I have not, but I will say that having worked in the industry for so long, I do run into people that I've worked with previously in restaurants. He says he tells them he's a consultant, but sometimes advanced spycraft is required. It's hard to keep that anonymity in this day and age, isn't it? It is.

We use aliases, we change them up routinely, we use fake numbers. All for this, the master and commander of this restaurant. Does that phrase sound familiar to you? It does, it does, yes. So are you allowed to reveal to us that you have eaten at Musket Room?

I have. And what impressed you about the food there? It has a personality, something that makes that dish quite unique or special. Gwendal Poulinac says the guide is single-minded. The store is only about the quality of the food.

It's not about the service and the setting. Michelin inspectors rate food based on specific criteria. The quality of the products, the mastery of cooking techniques, the harmony and balance in flavors, the personality of the chef as expressed on the plate, and last but not least, the consistency both over time and throughout the menu as a whole. Do inspectors usually dine alone when they're reviewing a restaurant?

We send the inspectors in pairs or maybe more, but they can also of course go alone. The Michelin Guide decision and recommendation is never a one-man show to ensure the quality and the worldwide consistency of a restaurant's recommendations. Mary Attia says these stars are valuable. Having Michelin Star maintains business. People seek out restaurants with the honor. So, you know, we always try to keep an eye on anyone that might look like they're inspecting a meal. Like many restaurants, Musket Room keeps photos of influential critics on the kitchen wall. Michelin inspectors are harder to spot.

They could be anyone and they could be anywhere or almost anywhere. Have you eaten a hot dog from a cart? Yes, I did. You did?

How'd you like it? I think that's part of the New York experience as well. That sounds like a very polite no star for you. My momma always said life was like a box of chocolates.

You never know what you're going to get. One of the most beloved movie stars of his generation has written his first novel. A conversation custom made for our man in Hollywood, Ben Mankiewicz.

Where are we right now? We are on about as famous a backlot as you're going to get. Just another ho-hum day in Hollywood.

A tour of Paramount Studios with Tom Hanks. It looks real. It's impossible to believe that these aren't real. Take your hands and just block off the sky, you know. And honestly, that's a city street.

Today, he's revealing some show business truths. Once you're on the lot, you can walk around. You can go almost anywhere. Let me tell you something right now, and don't put this on. Of course, keep it on. There are signs that are always on sound stage that say, this is a closed set. Nonsense. Anybody can walk onto any set, anytime they want to.

No one is going to say, hey you, come back here. Hanks took me to sound stage 25. It looms large in his history. Oh my lord, look at this.

I don't need you to worry for me, cause I'm alright. This is where Hanks taped Bosom Buddies with his co-star Peter Scolari. The show ran just two seasons. Peter and I had the first two dressing rooms right next to the hair and makeup thing. Bosom Buddies going off the air was not because you were going on to bigger and better things.

No, no. We got fired. You got fired. Yeah, we got fired.

Since losing that gig, things have improved. He's now a two-time Best Actor Oscar winner, a producer, director, one of the two or three defining stars of his era, and 43 years after his first film, he knows the audience. Movies are this one-on-one relationship. Movies are made for one person and one person only, and that's the person that is viewing. We all have our own memories that are connected to a specific film that if we think about it, we can remember where we were, what theater we saw it in, or maybe what weekend it was when we happened to see them on TV. It's like as personal as reading a book. Now Hanks is combining the two with his first novel out this week, the making of another major motion picture masterpiece. And action, Tom.

When I was born, my mama named me Forrest Gump. It's the story of the process, often spectacularly messy, of bringing a movie from the page to the screen. I had never read a book that captured the movie-making experience as I experienced making a movie. Hanks' novel tells an epic story from actors and agents to teamsters and gaffers. I think anybody who works in an office or on a construction site, even just a supermarket, doesn't think that the efforts that they put into their job are as far removed from what goes into the making of a motion picture.

It's actually much the same. Who causes a problem? Who's got an interesting idea? Who can make things happen a little faster? The end result is just different because you get a movie at the end of it. Getting a movie completed well, says Hanks, means following the text, which is much more than merely the script.

Text, I don't mean not just your dialogue, but the entire movie. Because actors always get, are you going to be in here? Are you going to get a shot? Where's the camera going to be?

What's the shot going to be? Dude, just behave, all right? And everybody else will make that happen. Because otherwise, all your performances end up looking something like this. You know, it's like, dude, no one turns and looks that way at the horizon.

No, no, no, no. This is what I used to do. I'd go in the mirror and I'd say, here's what I want to do. Here's what I want to do with this scene.

I want to go like this is what I want to do. You know, oh my God, could something be more, more, more artificial? No, but I tell you, I'm sitting here next to it, I'm like, that's pretty good.

Not bad. The novel is, of course, a work of fiction, but the stories are inspired by Hanks' experiences on roughly 100 movies, including an early hit, Splash, directed by Ron Howard. I was incredibly intimidated because I'd been on two years doing Boos and Buddies, in which our whole job was to be funny. Our whole job was to be flashy, say funny things in a funny way.

Splash had two legendarily funny cast members, Eugene Levy and John Candy. Do you think we're going to steal the mermaid? What are we going to do, fold her in half and put her in a briefcase? I operated from a place of, here's what my job is, to be as funny as these guys. And it was not a great read through. And Ron Howard, my boss, came up to me and said, I know what you're trying to do. I know, I know what you're trying to do. And you can't. You can't do that, Tom. We won't have a movie. He literally said, we won't have a movie if you do that. And I thought I was going to get fired at that movie. He said, your job is not to be as funny as Johnny or Gene. Your job is to love the girl.

All right. And that penetrated, like you heard that. Oh, dear. It ended up being part of the first lesson in an ongoing doctorate in understanding what the movie is, knowing the text. The funny thing is, delivered a million passengers over 40 years in the air. Everybody involved in a movie, from the director to production assistants, has a job.

As an art form, it's entirely collaborative, a word that gets Hanks thinking about his old friend Nora Ephron, who wrote and directed Sleepless in Seattle. Aren't you going to read any of these? No, because this is not how it's done.

I'd much rather just see somebody I like and get a feeling about them. I was cranky. Why were you cranky? Without realizing it, I was cranky because she was a woman writing for a man. How often has that been the opposite, a man writing for a woman? Thousands.

Millions of times. Eventually, I came around. The problem with this, Nora, is that you're a chick and I'm a dude and dudes don't think that way in these circumstances. And she says, well, how do men think in that circumstance then? I said, he wouldn't say that.

He'd say, diddle-a-be-bop, diddle-a-dee-da-da-da-da-da-da. And she said, well, let's put that in the movie then. And that had never happened. It happened in ways but never as specific as this because she and Delia literally took what I said and put it in the movie. And then afterwards, I said, that actually worked out great. She says, well, you wrote that. I said, no, I didn't write that. I just complained. You guys wrote it down. She says, that's what writing is.

Down there was Taxi, Laverne and Shirley, and Happy Days. So what of motion pictures? Does this novel mean we'll be seeing less of Tom Hanks, the movie star? Is there a scenario where you think, I'm going to basically stop acting. I'm just going to write.

No, dear God, no. There is an aspect of how long you can actually, I think, do it and be part of the cultural zeitgeist. Does that make sense?

Sure, yeah. Where you become too familiar or the countenance becomes so overbearing. But there is nothing that is more fun.

Coming to work and putting on clothes and pretending to be somebody else for a living, that's a blast. This morning we have commentary from Washington Post humor columnist Alexandra Pietrai. She has thoughts on ethics and the United States Supreme Court. You know how it's a bad sign generally if your neighbors start saying, yikes, maybe Generally, if your neighbors start saying, yikes, maybe it's time we had a policy about not welcoming grizzly bears to the pool.

It just implies that the situation is already out of hand. Well, more and more people are saying, yikes, maybe it's time the Supreme Court adopted some kind of code of ethics. On the one hand, I love the Supreme Court. I love that they don't have term limits.

And it's a comfort knowing that the people who could, at any moment, take my rights away on a whim, at least have to wear little matching outfits while they do it. Still, I think they should maybe get a code. So does the Senate.

It is critical to our democracy that the American people have confidence that judges cannot be bought or influenced, and that they are serving the public interest, not their own personal interest. First, objectively and as a serious matter, I think a code of ethics would be good to have. It's a clear statement that they don't technically have a code, but have often found themselves inspired by the concept of having a code to be unsatisfactory. Second, I think the specific code that they would have to get now would be objectively very funny.

If somebody who owns a Nazi tea kennel wants to give you free yacht and plane rides and buy your mother's house, you do, in fact, have to disclose it. A weird thing for the highest court in the land to have to specify. And to me, those are always the best codes, when people have to specify something that makes you go, huh.

And finally, I think a code would be a good idea for building empathy. For years, the justices have just been going around living their lives in accordance with what they thought were the rules, and then suddenly they're going to have to live by other rules they did not select and don't agree with. Imagine living like that under the Supreme Court.

I say, give them a taste of their own medicine. He's one of our best-selling recording artists, and Ed Sheeran's newest album, like much of his work, is very much a reflection of recent times, which for him have been filled with no small measure of controversy. Seth Doan talks with Ed Sheeran for the record. Top star Ed Sheeran has been on a stage of a different sort this past week, defending himself in court against a claim of plagiarism.

I'm obviously very happy with the outcome of the case, and it looks like I'm not having to retire from my day job after all. The lawsuit alleged he'd copied parts of Marvin Gaye's 1973 hit, Let's Get It On, with his Grammy-winning song, Thinking Out Loud. How is that as an artist, as a creator?

I just think it comes with the territory. Glenn's getting nervous now, but it's four chords that get used in pop songs. Glenn, honestly, it's fine. Glenn is off camera here.

When we spoke with Sheeran before the trial near his home in England, his reps did not want him talking about the case. There's like four chords that get used in pop songs. And if you just think mathematically, the likelihood of this song having the same chords as this song, there's multiple, multiple songs. It's all the same four chords. Some of them are like A, B, C. I'm a musician. I can speak about this. You are going to get this with every single pop song from now on, unless it just stops, which I don't think it does because it's a big money business to take things to court. But like, you can only get caught out if you've done something wrong and I'm not, I have not done something wrong.

I used four chords that are very common chords to use. Are you cool? Yeah. Yeah. It just, it rolls me up, man. The verdict was not the only good news for Sheeran this past week.

Critics are praising his new album, Subtract, released Friday. Interestingly, it was not the record the 32-year-old was planning to release. And I had to kind of get my head around scrapping 10 years of work to replace it with like a month's worth of work. Explain that. You've written all of these songs, you've planned for a totally different album and then life happens and you change course?

Pretty much, yeah. He chronicles the process in a new docu-series on Disney Plus. For Ed, if something really intense happens to him, he will go and write songs.

I'm going to have to remember the words now. My wife had gone in for a checkup and they found a tumour in her and she was six months pregnant and I then wrote a bunch of songs about that. Then about a week later, my best friend died and so I then wrote a bunch of songs about that. At the same time, he was in the middle of an earlier copyright case, which he also won.

And then I went into this like really, really public high-profile court case where you're being sort of shouted at every day and called a liar and a thief and stuff. So I'd written about, you know, the fear or depression or anxiety or all of these things that had been encapsulated in that time were what the songs ended up being about. The result is a stripped-down return to Ed Sheeran's singer-songwriter roots. It's a departure from the string of polished pop hits that have made him one of the world's best-selling music artists.

At King's Theatre in Brooklyn, about an hour before taking the stage for the sold-out debut of his new album, Sheeran seemed decidedly relaxed. I'm quite like comfortable in my skin. I know who I am and what I do. The lyrics in some of these songs seem to paint another picture of not being so comfortable in your skin.

Yeah. But that's the human. You're talking to the artist right now. The artist who can stand on stage in front of 110,000 people in Melbourne is not the same person that has anxiety and insecurity and depression and yeah, it's not the same person. You put on a cape, I guess, and go, I can entertain you and this is good. But if I was that off stage all the time, it's horrible. You're just this egotistical maniac that's just walking around. The British musician has been selling out stadiums on his mathematics tour, which just started in the US.

Part of what makes the artist Ed Sheeran so successful is that he's willing to expose that human side. Paint a picture of you as a kid. Really small. I had red hair. These big pink glasses. I had a stutter.

This is before I played music, so I didn't have anything impressive that I could offer and I was just weird. Yeah. Do you think of that kid? You? All the time, yeah.

I find it bonkers. Sheeran says he's never looked the part. You know, I've always been, I keep my weight in check now because I do a lot of exercise, but I've just always been a fat bloke. You're not fat. Well, I know because I keep it in check. I did like an hour and a half worth of exercise this morning, you know, and I'll be on stage for another two hours today.

Like I'm, I've watched what I eat and I exercise a lot and I've tried to not binge as much. He's open about that struggle to a point. I just don't want to turn into like the poster boy for it, you know? I think what is important about speaking about it is letting people know that it is not a problem that is just for one gender. By it you're talking about bulimia.

Yep. Showing that kind of vulnerability can require a level of confidence that's apparent when Sheeran takes the stage. This ego that a performer needs to have, where did it come from in your case? Oddly, no one caring. I guess I developed it from the age of like 15, playing in rooms where I was largely ignored. I don't know if you went to a bar and there was a kid being like, hey guys, this song's good. Listen to this.

You'd be like, okay. His songs are good if selling 150 million records is any measure. The single from his new album about his friend's death has topped charts, putting Sheeran in third for the most number one hits in the UK, just behind Elvis and the Beatles.

Oh, I keep dancing with my eyes closed Oh, I keep dancing with my Wow. It's a really personal song for you. All my albums are super personal. They're all reflections of where I am at this time, but this is more uncomfortable, I think.

Sheeran refers to this uncomfortable period lyrically as the end of youth. Is that autobiographical? Totally, yeah.

Totally. But then this is like uncomfortable talking about these things on interviews because you don't necessarily want the whole world to know everything that is going on in your mind the entire time. But then if you write songs about things and you're then releasing the songs, you should be giving context to them.

Music helps him process, and here at home on the English coast, he finds perspective. How much do you care about what's written, what's said about your work, about an album? I mean, I used to care a lot.

I used to care a lot because I spent my whole life trying to become successful, but you're not always going to be everything to everyone. I've never really been a critical darling, but I don't know. I think it's more challenging to write pop music than any other kind of music. Critics' minds may change, but Sheeran is unwavering when it comes to the value of a good pop song. Songwriting doesn't always have to be introspective and emotional. Sometimes songwriting can just be fun. Shape of You is just a fun song. No one listens to Shape of You and thinks deep and hard about their life.

They just go, I quite like that song, I quite like dancing to it. He may be the eldest of our elder statesmen. Henry Kissinger, former Secretary of State and National Security Advisor, is turning 100. He's in conversation with senior contributor Ted Koppel, who's been covering Dr. Kissinger for some 50 years. That Henry Kissinger is still alive will come as news to some people. He's hard of hearing, blind in one eye, and has had multiple heart surgeries.

I work about 15 hours a day. And incredibly, he remains relevant on a global scale. If you've had one of your aides here pick up the phone and call Beijing and say Dr. Kissinger would like to speak with President Xi, would he take your call? It's a good chance that he'd take my call, yes. What about the Russian president, Vladimir Putin?

Probably yes. If a president were to come to you and say, Henry, would you fly to Moscow and talk to Putin? I would be inclined to do it, yes. But I would be an advisor, not an active person. I wasn't thinking about reinstating you as Secretary of State for the... Of course you'd be an advisor. Yes, absolutely. In anyone else, the arrogance would be staggering. But the nimbus of photographs surrounding Kissinger and displaying the former U.S. president's living and dead whom he has served or advised is compelling.

Confirmation of the old adage, if you can do it, it ain't bragging. He believes that the current crisis in Ukraine may be approaching a turning point. Now that China has entered the negotiation, it will come to a head. I think by the end of the year, we will be talking about negotiating processes and even actual negotiations. On the cusp of turning 100, you might think Kissinger is sympathetic to the notion of an 80-year-old or a 76-year-old running for president.

He's skeptical. It takes a certain capacity physically. There are some advantages in maturity.

There are dangers in exhaust and a limited capacity to work. Kissinger has been at the center of things for longer than most Americans have been alive. Back in July of 1958, a young Mike Wallace asked an even younger Harvard professor, Henry Kissinger, to explain why the threat of massive nuclear retaliation, which was then U.S. policy, made absolutely no sense. This means that against almost any form of attack, we base our policy on a threat that will involve the destruction of all mankind.

And this is too risky and, I think, too expensive. One of the positive outcomes of the policy that was in fact pursued by every American administration of both parties was that nuclear weapons have not been used for 75 years, nor were they used by any adversary. So that, I think, is an accomplishment. In 1971, on a secret mission, Kissinger set the stage for Richard Nixon's historic visit to China the following year. Over the past 50 years, China has evolved to become a world power. As you look back now, is the world better off because of that opening, or is it a more dangerous place now? Now, China's re-entry into the international system would have happened.

You cannot exclude it from the international system. Today, China seems poised to take Taiwan by military force. And President Biden has said that the U.S. would come to Taiwan's defense. So we have a problem, which is that it could evolve into a general war between two high-tech countries. That's something that requires urgent attention. But it's a dangerous period.

From that point of view, it's a very dangerous period. As Secretary of State in 1973 and 74, Kissinger fashioned a new style of diplomacy, sometimes spending weeks in the Middle East flying between capitals. Shuttle diplomacy, they called it. Egyptian President Sadat was an early convert. I like him as a man before everything. And then after that, as a statesman, I admire him, really.

Kissinger laid the groundwork for an uneasy peace between Egypt and Israel that has lasted now for almost 50 years. The brilliant, all but anonymous Harvard academic was becoming hot stuff. Now, Kissinger, action biography. This ABC News special was introduced by my late friend and colleague, Howard K. Smith. He's been named the most admired American, has won the Nobel Peace Prize, a constitutional amendment has been offered that would let him run for president.

It won't pass, but what a tribute. There was a cancer growing on the presidency. By the summer of 1974, however, the American presidency itself was in crisis.

The country was obsessed with Watergate. And Kissinger was determined, as he told a very much younger Ted Koppel, that he and U.S. foreign policy be seen as separate and apart. Mr. Secretary, if you ever felt that foreign policy was being manipulated for the sake of domestic political reasons, what would you do? I would resign, and I would say so publicly. Foreign policy has to reflect the continuing values of the American people.

And it cannot be the subject of partisan policy. I shall resign the presidency, effective at noon tomorrow. It would be Nixon who resigned, Kissinger stayed on as secretary of state. A public figure who has shaped an era. What will history's judgment be? Kissinger's career has been one of extraordinary achievement and relentless controversy.

The bombing of Cambodia, the war in Vietnam, Argentina, Chile. Arrest Henry Kissinger for war and crime! Many of his critics were not even alive when the events they condemned occurred. There are people at our broadcast who are questioning the legitimacy of even doing an interview with you. They feel that strongly about what they consider, I'll put it in language they would use, your criminality.

It's a reflection of their ignorance. It wasn't conceived that way, it wasn't conducted that way. Look, there is no question when you and President Nixon conceived of the bombing of Cambodia, you did it in order to interdict- Come on, we have been bombing with drones and all kinds of weapons. Every guerrilla unit that we were opposing, it's been the same in every administration of either party. The consequences in Cambodia were particular- Come on now.

No, no, no. We're particular- Look, this is a program you're doing because I'm going to be a hundred years old. Right. And you're picking a topic of something that happened 60 years ago.

You have to know that it was a necessary step. Now the younger generation feels that if they can raise their emotions, they don't have to think. If they think, they won't ask that question. Well beyond an age at which most people are unwilling or unable to learn about the latest technology, Henry Kissinger became obsessed with the subject of artificial intelligence. In theory, the United States has declared that it will always maintain and insist upon human control of artificial intelligence.

From a practical point of view, it's impossible. Well, it's a highly desirable objective, but the speed in which artificial intelligence acts will make it problematical in crisis situations. A wartime situation, for example, in which AI recommends a course of action that the president and his advisors consider horrifyingly unwise.

In relying on the answer, we cannot double-check it because we cannot review all the knowledge that the machine has acquired via giving it that knowledge. But this would be one of the big debates. I am now trying to do what I did with the expected nuclear weapons to call attention to the importance of the impact of this evolution. But you know there will also be an artificial intelligence arms race. Yes, but it's going to be different because in the previous arms races, you could develop plausible theories of how you might prevail. It's a totally new problem, intellectually.

Just the thing to engage Henry Kissinger at 100. Thank you for listening. Please join us when our trumpet sounds again next Sunday morning.

Hey, Prime members. You can listen to CBS Sunday Morning with Jane Pauley ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-05-07 16:19:02 / 2023-05-07 16:40:07 / 21

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