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After three critically acclaimed seasons, its characters have made it to the big screen this week. Sunday mornings Tracy Smith recently visited with the creative force behind the show, and the movie. Director John Favreau.
So let's talk Star Wars. Clearly you love Star Wars. Yes. When did this love story begin?
Well, I was born in 1966, so in 1977, when the first Star Wars came out, I was the perfect age. To get my mind blown. And the movies of the 70s, you know, we were a family, I went to the movies. And At that time, there was one set of movies for everybody. And it was a really a golden age of filmmaking.
But as a kid, None of it spoke to me the way that the movies like Star Wars did, right? Because there were good guys and bad guys, it was special effects, there were heroes, it was adventure. And to have a filmmaker of George Lucas' caliber Take. What was essentially what would have been a pulp story, like a cliffhanger-type Saturday morning serial genre, and turn it into this beautiful cinema that had. Its underpinnings, I didn't know at the time, but in other cinema, like influenced by Akira Kurosawa, the samurai films, Westerns.
But also, his, you know, he was a student of Joseph Campbell, so there was a lot of mythic dimension to it. But as a kid, all you know is you're watching these mind-blowing, magical visual effects. By the time the third movie came out, I was an usher in Queens in a movie theater called the RKO Keiths. uh on Main Street and And so I got to see Return of the Jedi over and over and over and over again. And it wasn't really until later on that The prequels came out when I was already a filmmaker by then, or already in the Hollywood, an actor.
Uh And then um When Disney Plus was starting, that was an opportunity for me to pitch a show. I had. been at Skywalker Ranch. We were doing the sound mix for Iron Man up there. And Skywalker Ranch is this beautiful facility that George Lucas created.
And he has other filmmakers, hosts other filmmakers there to finish their films. I met Dave Filoni, who now runs Lucasfilm. At the time, he was just doing Clone Wars, which was an animated show. And I showed him Iron Man when we were mixing it. He showed me early cuts of the Clone Wars.
I offered to do a voice and so my relationship professionally started with me just being a voice performer as a guest on his shows and then later we were paired up by Kathy when I came in with the pitch of The Mandalorian and we've been working as partners ever since. What was your initial pitch for The Mandalorian? Simple. You know, because Star Wars was big. I wanted to keep it small and I wanted to be, you know, the Mandalorian walks into a bar to collect a bounty.
And you know, have it follow more the Not so much being influenced by Star Wars as much as being influenced by what inspired Star Wars with George, which was. the Curosawa films, the Leone films. You know, Boba Fett was very much influenced, was the first character you ever saw in Mandalorian Armor, influenced by the man with no name. And so just keeping it really ground level and And not being afraid to be small and to start from the beginning. Because if somebody was going to watch it on Disney Plus, we didn't assume.
they knew anything about Star Wars.
So for the fans of Star Wars, they understood the detail. every little thing that goes into a a Star Wars set. A Star Wars fan will tell you, like, I don't know if you could see it there, but There are little, there's silver, little, silver, what those are engine pieces from a Rolls-Royce engine that was originally used. In the bar in Tatooine, in Mos Isley, and then later used as the head of IG88, who's a bounty hunter droid. All those little details are things that we make sure that we include and try to give it that dimension.
But if you don't know any of those things, you could just watch The Mandalorian and see a story unfold following this hero or this anti-hero, when we meet him, a bounty hunter. who gets paired up with Grogu, who everybody Knew his baby Yoda when he first appeared on the show in the first episode. How'd you come up with Grogu, baby Yoda? You know, it's sort of riffing on what George did. I knew that there was a, it was, I thought it was fun to have a mislead.
Of this bounty hunter hunting down someone, all they knew was his age. He was 50 years old. And then, when you finally revealed that character, he was in a pram. He was like, because that species grows. much slower.
Age is much slower, and so when you found him, he was a child. And so it forced a moral. Yeah. and he decided to go against his code as a bounty hunter. and protect this kid.
And From then on, they change each other's lives. It was influenced in no small way by Lone Wolf and Cub, which was a Japanese samurai serial, both from graphic novels and from films.
So, again, drawing upon the influences that influence George and finding a path where a character is not just navigating the galaxy, but all of the moral decisions and choices that have to be made. Because even though we love the magic of Star Wars, what was actually in there, underneath it all, is it's about character growth, it's about the dark side, the light side, about What makes a character a hero, whether they're using the force like Luke Skywalker, or even Han Solo deciding not to. take the money and go, but to come back and help his friend out at the end of the first film. And I think it's those moral underpinnings that create the mythic Uh backdrop that I think was Infused in it from the very beginning by George, and we try to keep that tradition alive. And these relationships, like the father-son relationship that develops between the Managerian and Grogo.
And father-son relationships have always been a big part of Star Wars. And even when you have biological parents, they're not always the best relationships. And this one is different because this is one of the, I think, most positive father-son relationships in Star Wars. And ironically, they're not related in any way, but it is a A family of choice. And Star Wars has always been about families coming together.
It's not necessarily your biological family, but families that you develop. over the course of of uh of a lifetime.
So true. Did you know when you guys created Grogu that he would? Blow up like he did? We knew it would be exciting, and we knew that if we could surprise people with that reveal, that would be huge. Because in this day and age, there's so much is about marketing, is about merchandising, and to have a toy created, you need to give them.
a year head start. And so Disney and Lucasfilm were were uh really cooperative when we pitched, hey, let's just save this one reveal. Because it was one of the first Disney Plus shows. It was the first time Star Wars was going to be on television in a long time, and we wanted to make sure that we We wanted it to be so that if you missed a week, you felt like you were behind, like you couldn't wait and see. You didn't want it to be spoiled.
And so we held back the surprise at the end of the first episode, which Dave Filoni directed. We have the reveal. that he pulls the blanket down and you see that he's of the same species as Yoda, except much younger. And we knew that if we could, that it would have impact.
So, yeah, so once that reveal happened, then that character became a bit of a phenomenon. Baby Yoda was everywhere on social media. Murals would pop up in parts of the world that the show never even ran, because Disney Plus wasn't running in all territory.
So it was, we didn't realize quite what a phenomenon it would be. And then when we saw the balloon and the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade, that's when it kind of, as a New Yorker, it really hit me like, wow. This has really hit another level. Yeah, what was that like for you? It's the whole thing's surreal.
Just having the job I have is a bit surreal anyway. It feels a little dreamlike. that you get to do this thing that you love, that you, you know, I was a kid who watched movies, loved movies, never thinking I could do it.
So I'm just, and the older I get, the more grateful I get when I really understand the opportunity that I have and that we get to work with people who share that passion. It's it's really a I just feel very grateful that I get to do this. And then to be working in the world of Star Wars, I've been doing it for eight years now. And it doesn't wear off. Let's talk about your beginnings since you touched on that.
Go back, growing up in Queens. What did you picture? your future would be. You know, I didn't know what I wanted to do. I knew that.
Fortunately, I had people in my life like my dad who he was a school teacher but loved what he did. And I learned early on that you that you should expect that. Of a life, of a career, if you do something you're passionate about, it's something you shouldn't. compromise on if you could help it.
So, does that mean you went down some wrong roads before you found that thing you loved? I didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't think being an actor or doing artwork, any of that, was a realistic possibility. That wasn't even in the dream. I don't think so.
No, I like doing it like. In a school play, but I didn't think, I just didn't live in a world where that was a possibility. But I loved reading how special effects were done, and I was just a fan. and loved all that stuff. And then at a certain point uh when I was in my early twenties, I I passed through Chicago and uh saw people doing comedy there and and and and I decided I wanted to give that a shot.
I had gone through school. I hadn't graduated yet. I had tried working for a while. I actually took the fire department test to be a New York City firefighter because the people that I met that were in the fire department really had tremendous passion for it and it seemed like a really cool, fulfilling thing to do. I hadn't gotten called in on that, and I stopped in Chicago and decided I want to.
I saw people doing comedy, people who are like legends now. Doing it, like Chris Farley and Mike Myers, they were all just on stage doing, you know, not even barely professionals, places like the Second City. Improv Olympic. And I decided to give it a shot. And over the course of the next few years in my early 20s, You got into the Screen Actors Guild by doing a commercial, little by little, and writing shows, doing sketch shows.
Chicago is a great place to start. There's a very supportive Community for theater there.
So if you put up a good show, people come out and check it out. And it was a great place to live and it was a good start. And that's where I got cast in the film Rudy. That was my first big break. I got cast in a pretty significant supporting role.
And it was a wonderful production. It was a very special film to be my first film, because it's a film that has most people have seen, it has lasted many years, will show again and again on television. And it was a really inspiring film and it was a hitting at a moment where That was a huge break for me. I thought I was, once I was discovered with that, that. You wouldn't look back.
So once you did Rudy, you thought you were safe. I thought I was in. You know, when I did get agent and I did. you know, get to go on auditions, but. It didn't really pop for me until I started writing.
Then I did swingers with Vince Vaughn. What about that?
So, what was your career? Where were you in your career when you started working with the city? I worked enough that like you'd get like there would be like pilot seasons, so maybe you get cast in a pilot. you'd get paid for that performance and then you'd wait to see if the show get picked up and usually it wouldn't, but it would be enough money that you didn't have to worry about paying your rent.
So there were little things like that that would give you encouragement. I was surviving and I was learning about the business. And I was, you know, when you're auditioning, you're reading a lot of scripts, you're going into a lot of rooms, you're getting to walk around the studio lots. That was very inspiring to me, that you were walking around these back lots and by these sound stages and seeing work. There was a lot of work here in town, in Los Angeles at that time.
Things have changed quite a bit, unfortunately. Doesn't feel the same. But it was alive. And when you're dreaming big and you're seeing other people accomplishing things and you're getting a chance to work on doing little roles in films, asking questions, you know, it's like an apprenticeship. And I had even done extra work when I was in Chicago.
So everything from doing background work to supporting acting. and then eventually doing bigger roles. And then you get to talk to all these really talented people behind the camera, crew members. You understand what they do. They ask you to help cooperate with them.
So you learn how to look out for what's important to them, and they're looking out for you. And you develop these partnerships and it's a whole culture on the film set. And I was lucky enough to get invited into editing rooms to watch things, visual effects reviews on some films that I was in.
So you're slowly just absorbing. And that was my film school. And eventually I started writing. And A few breaks.
Sometimes a film does really well at the festivals but doesn't gets distribution or doesn't make a lot of money in the theaters.
So I had incremental successes that kept me working and learning and expanding what I thought I might do as a filmmaker. And then eventually, you know, Swingers was a huge break for me because that got me a lot of attention. Although the film didn't do a lot of business, most people saw it. No, no, it didn't. But a lot of people saw it, and it did have, you know, it was impactful for me.
It got me, because I wrote it, so I got a lot of work as a writer, and once I was doing script work, and development work for the studios. That paid well enough that I could actually make a comfortable living. outside of acting and it and I would partner with studio executives, directors. And when you're writing for them, you're really getting a lot of insight as they're guiding you as to what they want. Uh I can't think of anything that I wrote that got made through that process until I did work for about a year on a movie that turned into ELF.
And then I ended up directing that film and that was a big break because that actually turned out well and it did well at the box office and that opened up a lot of doors for me. And from there on, you know, things have been steps up, but that one.
solidified it where I knew I could make a living and do well in this field. Go back to Swingers for a second.
So much of Swingers' dialogue is classic. I'm sure people come up to you all the time and say you're so money. Still.
Well, people my age, but there's also younger people who do. That's pretty cool. Yeah, and it was really a snapshot of. You know, where we were living in Hollywood as out-of-work actors, you know, Vince Vaughan, of course, brought a tremendous amount to that. A lot of the dialogue either came from or was inspired by conversations that we had had, and he just was always a very talented, funny guy from the beginning who wanted to make movies too.
It opened a door for a lot of us to pursue careers in a more meaningful way. And again, I was fortunate enough to make a living all the way through this over the years and decades. until things started to roll and and then I got uh you know, with success you get more opportunity. Before we talk about ELF, do people also Do people come up to you about friends? Friends I do get a lot of.
Friends I did after Swingers, and it was really eye-opening. I did about five or six episodes. And now with streaming, it's in rotation, and my kids' generation have watched it all the way through. And I learned a lot from that experience. And especially in the UK, a lot of people recognize me still as Pete.
from friends. That's interesting that that's in the U.S. Different places, different people recognize me from different things. Yeah, different age groups recognize me from different things.
So a lot of it is happy Hogan. You know, I play a. You know, a supporting role, a character actor in the Marvel universe. And people know me because I've been in the Iron Man films, the Avengers films, the Spider-Man films.
So there's a lot of people who grew up watching me as sort of the hagrid of Marvel. The Hagrid. I look out for Pete. I'm not too swift, but I'm big heart. And you've survived, which is something in the Marvel universe at this point.
That's right.
So, Elf, you've set out to make a classic Christmas movie, and boy, did you do it. I mean, it is on rotation with those other classic movies every year. It's a big one. I really like that one because for that reason, that it's perennial. And that Mm-hmm.
Families will introduce you know every year they'll people will say oh i'm showing my kid this for the first time We're sharing this. It's like, I like when. multiple generations could enjoy something together. I feel like we're all kind of off in our own corners. And uh we have uh an embarrassment of riches when it comes to choice and You could find something.
That's exactly what you want. I remember when I was growing up, you sort of had to all decide together what you're going to watch on TV or what movie you're going to go to.
So I think there is something nice about Doing things together, maybe checking out something you might not have thought you'd like because somebody in your family or a friend is. you know, introducing you to it. And I feel like at Christmastime that happens, and with ELF, it happens, and it's still screens in theaters, and it's still people. Connect with it, they've grown up with it, it makes them feel a certain way. And that was the hope when we made it.
Like, the hope was. Could this be something? that could join the pantheon of other Movies like Christmas Story or Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, like things that show Charlie Brown, that show every year that become part of the tradition. And so we're, you know, we've. We've not just here, but around the world, people know that film.
It's a family tradition for our family. We watch it at least 10 times every Christmas. Do you watch it with your family? I do watch it. I'll do watch it or I'll.
You know, sometimes like John Debney, the composer, did a concert.
So I'd go and they'd screen the film and they'd play the music live and pop in and introduce it. Or, you know, like the American Cinematech plays it.
Sometimes I'll intro it there. I really feel connected to that film. And it was a very special moment. I'm a New Yorker. We filmed it not long after 9-11, and it felt like a really nice celebration of the city.
And reminded people of what New York was about and what I grew up with. Because we showed all the landmarks, and there he was, this, you know, this innocent. You know, Will Farrell did an amazing job, as he always does. Just being innocent and exploring the city, but still putting a comedic edge to it so it didn't feel like a kids' movie. It was appropriate for kids, but also.
His fans and fans of his type brand of comedy also were digging it.
So it was, it just, it just, you know, sometimes you get the recipe right. You don't always control every element, but it was a good combination of people, of story. right timing, everything kind of clicked and the stop motion characters. It was a really, and then of course it's a great talented cast.
So, you know, you learn to appreciate. It's more like a sports team. When you're making a movie, like you could put the elements in place and You do your best, you work hard, but you got it's gotta. It's got to break your way and you got to. Other things you have no control over have to line up.
And so with filmmaking, I've grown to really appreciate When things click, because you don't control everything. And for that one, I was really. really proud that it did and that again when it does and then when you can still It would be relevant. for even not just in that moment, but for for future generations, it's quite fulfilling. I mean, you've had a lot of things click.
Yeah. You know, they say it's a miracle every time you're able to make a movie and for a movie to become successful. You've had a lot of miracles. Things have lined up well more often than not. But enough times when it doesn't that we forget in the in the fullness of history, as they say.
But there are disappointments and ups and downs every step of the way. And I think it's those disappointments that where you learn your lessons and then it's And then every once in a while you get rewarded and you feel um And with film, especially, you get this tremendous sense of community as people come together to enjoy this experience together. It's a great gig. Take me back to the beginnings of Iron Man, because Iron Man was at the start of the Marvel cinematic universe. Did you?
D was it a gamble? I think it was. They were smart in that they, Marvel had split off onto their own. They had been making movies in partnership with other studios, but they decided to create the Marvel Studios and distribute at the time through Paramount and later with Disney. But it was almost like an independent negative pickup film.
So it was a film that we were doing for a relatively modest budget for that genre. There had already been a crazy run of great superhero movies with the Spider-Man films, X-Men films.
So it was already a tried and true thing. The question was, is it still a relevant genre at the time? And at the time, also remember Nolan's doing Dark Knight.
So he's hitting, you know. He's just a tremendous filmmaker and connects with an audience and understands genre.
So even though now Iron Man feels like a It has significance because of what it started, at the time it was one of many and sitting in, you know, uh It it it It was a wonderful success. It was a great reintroduction of Robert. It was the You know, kind of coming out party from Marvel Studios and the MCU, and Kevin Feige was really able to build on top of that into others.
So we kind of started off, but then later came Avengers and, you know, all the. dozens of films that have followed. In retrospect, you see, oh, that was the beginning of it all. But at the time, we were just scrambling to get this movie done and trying to make something that made people feel something and make them laugh and take this character that was rather obscure at the time. Using emerging technology with CGI, a lot had been developed.
With ILM for transformers that allowed us to do metal and hard surfaces in a way that hadn't before.
So I think that we benefited from. The beautiful visual effects, and having a character and a hero that could do things that they never could do before because of technology. uh in in visual effects. And again, a team of people, of cast members with Wynneth and Robert and Kevin and everybody, and everybody else, Terrence, everybody else that was surrounding that, everybody coming together, it clicking in just the right way and coming out at the right time, and people connected with that character and continued to. It's hard to believe looking at it now, but the studio wasn't convinced about Robert Downey Jr.
at first. At the time, it was, you know, they were, they were. The studios are qu always questioning everything, is what it comes down to. And unless you're casting somebody who is has Uh uh a box office record, every piece of casting is there always a lot of hand wringing around it. Nobody questioned his talent ever, and it was a really great fit between actor and character and timing.
And Tony Stark was one of the older heroes in the Marvel Pantheon. You don't think of it now because he fits the character so well. But all of those factors are questions. But Fortunately, as soon as he went on film, there was no question. As soon as he did a screen show.
As soon as he did, yeah.
So, whatever, whatever. you know, uncertainty there might have been. You know, his talent went out and his commitment, and just he was locked in. That was his, it was, he knew that that was. his role and his moment and and uh and as a filmmaker Once you have that together, then you just Everything else was just me helping.
You know, it's like curling in the Olympics. I'm just sweeping the ice. I'm just sweeping the ice. And really, that's my gig: I watch curl. I love curling because that is so much of what filmmaking is.
That's what you feel like you're doing. You're just sweeping relentlessly, just making it go a millimeter this way, a millimeter that way, because you can't touch the, the thing's moving. And all you could do is help shape that. Try to look all the way down to the end and figure out what do I have to do now to get to there. And usually it's a lot of.
consistent commitment to a vision. Over time. That's a great metaphor. Yeah, it is. Did your improv roots, I mean, I think I see your improv roots in a lot of things, but did your improv roots come into play with Iron Man?
Yeah, always, always. Because with Iron Man, there's actually, Robert actually excels and he loves to improvise and discover. And so there are certain techniques that I know as an actor that I could use to encourage that. Like certain scenes, like with him and Gwyneth, I knew they were going to. Go all over with, you'd set up two cameras so that you never have to worry about matching or turning around.
And then there's other sequences where it's visual effects heavy, where I've been planning that thing for months. And we've got to stick to exactly what was storyboarded. But it's giving yourself room to explore and let characters bring life to something because in film. You just need a moment. You just need a twinkle of the eye or an unexpected delivery of a line or a reaction.
And that breathes life into this, and especially when you have a very effects-driven genre. You want to have moments of Spontaneity, inspiration, humanity, humanity, because people, at the end of the day, people just care about people. That's what they focus on. that human interaction, those emotional relationships. We're humans, we're dialed into humans, and everything else is in support of that.
We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview after this break. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. They make it super simple.
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So you do these big Iron Man movies, and then you did a beautiful small movie, Chef. Why did you decide to make that turn back to a smaller film? I mean, chef uh by the time I did chef, I had come off of a film that didn't do well. And and so Yeah. It was a moment to kind of I had been doing directing pilots for television, some commercials.
I wanted to do something, see if I could even do something personal and small and to be in it too. And I hadn't done anything like that for over a decade. to see if I could write something and keep the budget modest. I thought food was really, I love food and film. There are certain things that are that are hard to To show on the screen.
Hacking a computer hard, playing poker, hard, playing blackjack. You could do it, but it's a lot of work. There's something about food that's inherently visual and cinematic and It creates If you do it right, you could almost, other senses get engaged. There's almost like a synesthesia that happens with it, where if you see the food, you'll feel like you smell it. It's just a very visual craft, and it's a creative craft.
And so the idea of doing something around food and the food truck thing was exciting. And I met with Roy Choi, who Was one of the pioneers of food trucks here in Los Angeles, and he had the Kogi truck. the script that I wrote. was very similar. There was enough similarities to his experience that he wanted to come on and offer insight and help me shape that.
And of course, taught me how to cook. And it was a It was a a bit of a a new chapter for me because We made that movie small enough that I could really concentrate just on. whatever the vision of that was, and not really feel like I had to compromise in any way. And And that opened me up. in a lot of ways.
And then off the success of that, then I was able to move back into, I think, Jungle Book was what I did after that. And that was a big movie, but I still felt it still felt very personal to me. And the process that I had learned on Chef, I had been able to apply that even on a big studio film like Jungle Book. Understanding what the vision of it was and understanding that you got to stick with what that is and be very clear about what you want to do and develop the relationship with the studio of being clear about your vision. and making sure that they're on board with what you want to do and then it feels like you could follow that.
follow that through. You know, there are a lot of circumstances when you're working on other media Sometimes you have to, it it becomes a compromise where you have to all agree upon certain things and you know that when you're going. If I'm directing a television commercial, I have to do what the client wants. I wanted to make sure that I was going to put all this time and effort into a film. that it was going to feel fulfilling from beginning to end.
And not always that it works out well or that you're always right, but at least you get to fail or succeed on your own. That it's your vision, it's your baby. And Chef was what kind of brought that home to me. It did, and that's what it's about, too. That's what the movie's about.
But it's also understanding that you have to work within the means so that you're a good partner.
So that if you're going to be spending a lot of a studio's money and doing a lot of visual effects, you have to make sure that there's a comfort level with them.
So I've actually become a better partner, I think, because I'm very clear about, hey, this is what I want to do. Here are certain things that we're going to go for. And what makes you comfortable? And so, as you're dealing, also, when you're dealing with underlying material that belongs, like Star Wars. I know it doesn't belong to me.
This belongs to Lucasfilm. And so I have to make sure that we have a good partnership. But within that, I'm clear about what I want to do. And communicating and aligning early on and communicating throughout the process and partnering with like-minded people, you could end up making things that are very creatively ambitious, but still fit within the box of what makes them comfortable. And some of that has to do with how much money you spend, how long you take to film it.
You know, being uh being responsible in those ways. you get a lot more opportunity and permission creatively if you strike up a partnership and they understand that you respect what they need, but they also have to respect what you need. You could be talking about human relationships, marriages, the way you're talking about this. I think this would apply. Does this apply to your relationships?
Yeah. It's called getting old. And you realize that everybody's out there. Making their way, and the older you get, you realize everybody's got their hands full, and the more you could. Understand and empathize with that, the easier it is to cooperate.
I'm in a field where you have to cooperate. This is not a solo sport. I'm not painting, I'm not making oil paintings in my basement. I'm working with a lot of people. And there's a lot on the line, there's a lot of people counting on all of us, and there's a lot of people who are going to see it if you do it right.
So it is a, you know, you have to understand teamwork and you have to understand collaboration. And it's also, once you do that, you could start. Working with people who are really smarter than you and more talented than you, and who could teach you things. And once you could unlock that, then you really have then it really becomes fun because you could Then you're learning every day? You know, I don't know if you've had this experience.
But the older I get, the more they shouldn't make you go to college when you're old. Because I'm curious now and I like to learn. When I was younger, I didn't have the patience for any of it, but the older I get, the more, whether it's learning how to cook or learning how to. about technology, about visual effects, storytelling. Uh I just feel like I'm so curious now.
as I get older and I'm very lucky that I work in a field where that's still part of my job. See, did you know how to cook before chef? Enough. Enough. I knew how to cook enough that I enjoyed it, but no, I went to culinary school, and Roy took me under his wing and started off.
picking parsley. For the mise and place, and then slowly working your way and then going to the, you know, learning your knife cuts, your mother sauces. And then practicing, which was fun to do with my kids when they were little then, because they love cooking now. My kids all know how to cook. which is a tremendous gift.
The whole experience was really wonderful, and it's something I still do. And it's a great way to interact with people, and cooking still is part of my life where I like to cook with other people. you know, I find you gather everybody around a kitchen table and you build a meal together. you make fast friends. And then at the end of it, then the people who don't like to cook get to eat.
And so it's it's a I think it's a it's a I just enjoy it tremendously. Do you make a mean grilled cheese? I make a really, really good grilled cheese sandwich. Yes. And if you look at the end of Chef, one of the things we included, if you look at the end credits, It's Roy coaching me of how to make the grilled cheese sandwich.
Between takes, and we let the camera roll. And then, if you watch this, the chef show on Netflix. We've done episodes where we actually go through that, those recipes too. Yeah, yeah, kick it. It was a lot of fun.
It makes my mouth water just thinking about it. Yeah. But it's all about attention. It's really what it is for most cooking. It's about Focusing and being attentive to it and making sure that you're getting every little thing right.
Has that helped you when it comes to filmmaking? It does, yeah. Filmmaking, visual effects, and because chefs work with. Chefs can't do it alone. Right?
Each department Has a different set of talent skills, and then you're also. There's an apprenticeship in the kitchen too. You need people who are coming in, who are stodging. You know? On a film set, you have young actors, you have sometimes new writers coming up, or people who are working their way up the various departments, and so there's a There's a teaching process that's happening in the background of this as well, which is how I learned from being on a set.
And that's part of what's nice as you get older, as you see these new young, smart, talented people coming in who really love what they do, and you can.
Sometimes it makes minor adjustments or give a little bit of advice, and it's very significant for them in their course of their. Of their path. That's cool.
So you have apprentices behind the scenes and a little apprentice in the movie, too, right? It's all based on apprenticeships. The whole thing is. Grogu is the apprentice of The Mandalorian, and it's about, you know, it's about family and parenthood. And that's what's nice about this particular project is as my generation of original Star Wars fans become parents.
they can relate to in a different way. And then young people Like Baby Yoda, you know, and then they see that. It it works. From either perspective, there were always funny, cute characters. R2D2 was my favorite character growing up.
You know, there's George Lucas always made room for comedy and for understanding that younger audiences needed things to connect with as well. But there's also serious themes, and it's a dangerous Star Wars. You know, the consequences are high. And there are, you know, not it's not a safe world. But people can be heroes in that world and can persevere.
Mm. Nicely put. How do you I'm trying to picture technology at this point, because you're always pushing, pushing, pushing the edge of technology. Is there something that you keep in mind? Is there an important rule when you're dealing with technology that you try to keep in mind?
Well, yeah, I love technology. and I find it fascinating, but I'm not an early adopter. If you look at my use of CGI, I didn't really embrace it until For certain use cases in Iron Man, and then eventually by Jungle Book, I was like, okay. I understand this well enough, and it's ready because you have to ensure a certain level of quality. Because as much as it's about the technique, it's about the audience.
How's the audience going to feel when they see this? And sometimes it's about what they're seeing on the screen, sometimes it's about the story, about how you're making something. But I know that, like an elf, we didn't use CGI. We used stop motion. The Kyoto brothers did stop motion.
little figurines for certain characters in ELF when he's in the North Pole. It wasn't the easiest way to do it. It wasn't the highest tech way to do it. We did forced perspective in camera. It gave an audience a feeling that worked for that story.
I think oftentimes people become preoccupied with the technology, not understanding it's a storytelling and the human creative. the human creativity that speaks most to the to the audience.
Now, if these tools can be used in service of human creativity and a human can curate and shape it. I think we're always going to be, film has always been about the conversation between storytelling and technology. right? There's a constant back and forth between innovation. You want to tell a story, you there's no way to do it, you create a technology to do that.
Then that new technology is available to all other filmmakers, and filmmakers tend to be very generous with their Mentorship and information, and they'll help guide you if you want to do something that they've done. That inspires a story that you wouldn't have thought to tell. You know, Iron Man, we were talking about that before. If it wasn't for the breakthroughs in CGI that were happening, you couldn't have had a flying superhero in a metal suit 15 years earlier and have it look that convincing.
So, new stories open up the imagination, but it always has to come down to how does that hit the audience.
Sometimes the tech could be distracting, sometimes the tech's not ready yet and it doesn't feel right.
Sometimes the audience doesn't like the use of certain technologies. It might feel weird to them. because it's all how it hits the human brain. And so I think there's constant exploration, and everybody innovates. And you have certain people that are real hard chargers, and certain people that really want to hold back to the.
Most fundamental, you know, shooting on film, photochemical process, not using DIs. Avoiding CGI using practical effects, like that's one end of the spectrum, the other people are just hard charging right ahead and everybody falls somewhere in between. And ultimately, the audience gets the final vote. And they decide what they want to see. Do you have worries about technology, AI?
I think there's, you know, there's a, I think I have a healthy concern about What might come. I think each generation faces different challenges around technology. Even positive technologies are disruptive, and there are ways that we can Trying to avoid innovation doesn't seem to be a winning strategy, but helping to have transparency. When using new technologies, understanding as best we could the ramifications of them, really thinking things through and trying to be responsible. I think that's important.
But I don't think it's just in my industry. I think that's across society. Again, as I get older, you look at the world, and the world is changing, and it changes rapidly. Um And we benefit so much if you look at what life was like when we were younger. In some ways, it was better.
But most breakthroughs have been positive, I think. life has improved, but there are always unintended consequences when uh if Mm-hmm. Anything novel is is embraced without uh without being thoughtful about it and being measured and uh And fortunately, there's all different types of people, and we're going to have an ongoing conversation about how these things work their way through.
So I think I share most people's Um You know, uh sense that we we you know We have a certain responsibility as we move into the next phase of whatever field we're in. in general. And and I and as I get older, you start to feel that more than when you're younger. And so I try to be helpful in that conversation. I try to stay up on it as much as I can.
and try to understand it so that I I, you know, I form opinions slowly, but I try to learn. quickly. Going back to The Mandalorian, you had written a season four? Yes. Well, I wrote season four, and there was.
It was as we were coming out of COVID and then there was a strike. And so everything kind of stopped. And so I had written it with the thought that maybe You know, I we could be ready with material in case things resolve quickly or And so everything, everything ground to a halt. At that time. And at the same time that was happening, there was also a lot, the industry was changing.
in many ways. There was a contraction. because of the amount of productions that were being made contracted.
So there was a lot of vectors that were affecting my particular industry, streaming. Studios And what I do as a writer. to as a director. The actors, everything was realigning and reorienting. And as we were coming out of the strike, there was a, you know, there had not been a Star Wars movie in a long time.
And Lucas Film and Disney approached me about these particular characters. Um I was like prepared to move ahead with the show, but Uh Uh season four implies that you've seen three seasons. And maybe other Star Wars stuff on streaming. You're engaging, you're continuing a story. And even though season three kind of wrapped things up.
There's a larger story that Dave Filoni is exploring with Ahsoka, and there are other characters that are laid out, and a bigger picture that he has been working. Uh on. And I have to fit within that. And now This would mean that Ahsoka season two would be coming out before season four.
So, all of that shifts. And for me to do a film, I can't assume that everybody had seen. The shows. Because in a movie, you know, you want to, there's a... It's been seven years since the last Star Wars film.
And so I have to operate under the assumption that there are people That weren't old enough to go to the movie theater to watch Star Wars when the last film was out, that are now might be coming to the theater. I can't assume that they know anything about any of this.
So You have to make this an introduction. To a new audience who might be approaching it because it's in the movie theater, it's an IMAX release, it's a big screen event. That has to be something that If you're a Star Wars fan, you'll go, but you could bring somebody who might not be that you might want to introduce to Star Wars. I have to make. We have to shoot for making it feel the way I felt when I first saw Star Wars.
And even though that first film fit in the middle of a longer story, it felt like an introduction to me. But then you also have to know that these people have been, a lot of these people have been Star Wars fans since the beginning, since 77, and you have to make sure that that experience also speaks to them. and how do you give them enough detail and richness and bring things into it that they might recognize and appreciate. That wouldn't interfere with the experience of somebody who might not have, might not be as familiar. And it was very similar to what we did season one.
on the show. which is we started fresh with a new story, a new set of characters there, a new adventure. And a lot of people, that was their first Star Wars experience, watching it at home on Disney Plus. But we also had enough in there that the Star Wars fans really dug it.
So that's the balancing act here. But remember, I've been doing this for eight years and to get the opportunity to do Star Wars for the big screen. Which is as much fun as we were having, it feels like you know you're getting a shot to to to pitch in the World Series. And you're getting, you're finally getting to do the big show. And Star Wars.
when I grew up was about the crowd, was about the energy in the room. And to have a group of people that have been working on this for so long together, and for us to get the opportunity to make a case for. You know, this being in a movie theater and having that taller IMAX screen, that aspect ratio, we had to turn around and do the show. In less than a year for each season. Here we had many years.
We had a lot of technical innovation. For using video walls for backdrops. Here we had a whole studio lot of sound stages to build sets. To look at the old sets that were used for Star Wars. What techniques did they use?
How do you get that feeling? and also to explore a whole sub-genre that we didn't really get to do, which is the That Flash Gordon, you know, space opera thing. We were, you know, we were very. small stories from week to week, here we got to really go bigger. And all of that was like having a whole new paint set to paint with.
And we just had a great time. And now we're just finishing up after all these years. And I'll actually get to go to a movie theater and feel the energy. And I'm excited to introduce a whole new audience to Star Wars. Is there I mean you mentioned there hasn't been a Star Wars movie in Almost seven years.
Almost seven years, yeah. How much pressure is there? Do you feel the pressure? I'm lucky I don't feel the pressure of that particular aspect of it. You know, I did my job, we worked hard, we did the best we could.
I feel excited. I want people to go to it. I want people to like it. I want it to speak to people. When you connect With an audience, and they feel the energy that you feel about it.
That's the to me that's the Place that that's the most fulfilling part when you actually bring people together and they feel a certain way. And if you tell a good story, You know, that's really what they want. They want a good movie. They want a good story. People want to be entertained for that two hours.
It's a lot of, it takes a lot to go to the movie theater. You got to get the babysitter. You got to go and you got to pay for parking, go there. You have to make it special for people. But if you do, they Appreciate it so much.
There's very, me as a film fan, like to see a great movie, you know, you'll even go watch it again and again later, but it never feels like when you see it. in that theater for the first time, you feel like you're discovering something. And I think it's an important moment, not just for Star Wars, but for films, for theaters. You know, there's so many things that are competing for people's attention now. And there's entertaining things on your phone, on your TV.
People have great TVs in their house. is different than we're growing up. We had black and white TV in the house. You go to a movie theater. It was a big deal.
Now, everything is competing for your attention. And so I think it's an important moment. I think this year is important because a lot of filmmakers are coming out, a lot of people. You know, of course, weren't going to the theaters when they were shut down. There was a strike.
It's not in somebody's habit to say Like when I was growing up, what are we seeing this week? It was a regular thing. It was a regular thing. Where are we going to go? That doesn't make you nervous at all?
I think that feels like a responsibility for people who care about this medium that we want to do our best to show a new generation that this is relevant. Fortunately, the films so far that are coming out this year, there have been Really successful films and filmmakers who've done really good work. And I know there's a lot of good filmmakers that have stuff lined up. Everything's kind of aligning and I, you know, I'm really. Rooting hard for everybody because I want to see.
You know, it's something that's movies have changed my life. even before I worked in the industry. And I think it's a great I think anything that brings people together to have shared experiences, I think are mean a lot to people. I think it's meaningful. I don't take it for granted.
as much as I used to. And so um But if we could make people fall in love with not just Star Wars but movies, I think I think that's a I I think that's an exciting prospect. And it's entirely possible. I hope so. Could you Take yourself back to that young kid sitting in a theater watching Star Wars for the first time.
If somebody had whispered to you, hey, you know, you're. These things. Yeah, these things. No, I mean, it was so unfathomable. You know, but I do think that.
It's just life is a surreal experience. The older you get, the more life starts to feel. Surreal, and certainly the life I've been able to Participate in the journey that I've been a part of, and sharing with other people I've gotten to know, things I've gotten to do. You don't think about it a lot because it's you just sort of Keep going through it and try to make the most of every experience. Because it does get surreal at times.
and overwhelming. Um but also very fulfilling. And Uh At the at the center of it Very human-sized life with people, family. collaborators, relationship. you know.
and the people who can maintain that nucleus of that I find doesn't just apply to what I do, but across, you know. That people who who Invest in the things that are going to ultimately pay off over the long run, like those central relationships or. working hard at something that you're passionate about. Those are the that seems to be the thing that you got to just keep doubling down on, and the other stuff. Good or bad kind of comes and goes and happens.
Some of it's bigger than life, some of it's strange, some of it's weird, but it's a. It's a fun ride. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday morning on the free Odyssey app.
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Now streaming on Paramount Plus, Beth and Rip are back in Dutton Ranch. This life here is gonna work, isn't it? We'll make it work. To the woman. Starring Kelly Riley.
A legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Cole Hauser. What's gonna work? Ed Harris. Family is the only thing worth fighting for.
And Annette Benning. I can make this a lot harder for all y'all. And peace will have to wait. Dutton Ranch, new series now streaming on Paramount Plus.
