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This is Jane Pauley. What's on country star Casey Musgrave's mind? Find out as she talks with Sunday Morning's Anthony Mason.
So you said this record was basically you learning about being alone. Part of it, yeah. Was that a hard lesson to learn? Um, I think at first, uh I think that there was this fear that I had kind of in my 20s and like earlier 30s of like just being kind of scared to be by myself. And through this record, I really I really learned to embrace that kind of that liminal, being in that liminal space where it was just very undefined.
Just kind of learning to make friends with that kind of uncomfiness. And I grew to really love it. And I found it really empowering. I think creatively a lot can happen in that space too. Oh, totally.
Yeah, yeah. It's a breeding ground for whatever's next. And I think too often we're all trying to fill, I mean, me included, we're trying to name, label, and fill where we are, what is next, what's coming, because we like the control of knowing that we know what we're doing. I just, yeah, I I went through this breakup and kind of just was in this place of really, really taking stock and evaluating just kind of where I was at, who was in my life. And I got really obsessed with the concept of liminal space.
Yeah. It's funny because Sometimes we're so busy trying to fill, as you say, fill up space. It doesn't allow us to let anything in or to feel it. Totally. You know?
Yeah. And you're kind of, particularly after a breakup. You're usually in a pretty raw space where we feel everything. Right. And sometimes you feel things you didn't even realize you were feeling.
100%.
Well, and it's nice to just be able to stop the tape and kind of evaluate: like, okay, why do I make these choices? Who am I bringing in my? Why am I picking, why am I drawn to certain archetypes of people? What does that say about me? You know?
Yeah. And. Yeah, just kind of embracing that single period and seeing kind of what came out of it. And there wasn't any. Pressure or timeline for me to create, I just kind of let it.
Start flowing out. I was in the middle of promoting my last record, Deep It Well, and was on tour. And these songs just started kind of, you know, kind of flowing. falling out and it felt really, really good. And I called a lot of my old collaborators up.
And so it was just, it felt like home to me to kind of revel in these like. um these types of songs, these This kind of sonic landscape, these instruments, this humor, and you know, it felt good. Do you feel driven? I do feel driven. For me, when I feel really driven, is when.
Like Everything starts with a seed of an idea, and then it sort of compounds and rolls into this snowball that's kind of. getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And soon this whole world is in my mind of like just a concept and shaping the concept, whether it's a song or like a merch collab or a video idea or whatever. It's the simply simply the process of taking it from Like it's Genesis. To its fully realized form.
So, once it starts rolling, it becomes a snowball. Oh, and I like, I eat, sleep, and drink that idea. And it just becomes like almost an obsession until I figure out what exactly it is. And that is the creative energy of that is what keeps me going. Right.
Yeah. But if it's not that, then it's like, You know, when I'm not on the road, I'm like, I get antsy and I'm like, I'm remodeling my whole house. Like, you know, there's always something.
Well, but that's a restorative thing in its own way, I think. Yeah. It's a distraction, but it's consistent with the But it's also like it's a way to use your Lens or your viewpoint or something on something, because I mean, like, otherwise, out of hands, just you're just, what do you do? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So So at what point is an Albums start to snowball for you with a first song with an idea? Yeah, actually, with this record, I had taken a visit back to my hometown. I'm from East Texas. Yeah.
Little bitty town called Golden. Been there. You were there, you did go. When was that? 13 years ago.
Okay, wow. Yeah. You came to my parents' house. Yes. We all sat around the table.
We all had very interesting hair choices at that point in time. I re-watched it recently and I was like, wow, my bangs. I don't know what's happening. And my grandparents were there. You took a visit to, I think, my grandpa's record collection.
That was right. Yes, which he still has. I was wondering about that because it was a great record collection. It was a great record collection. And it's still just as unorganized.
But that's the best. But it's the best. It's a little treasure hunt. It allows for exploration. It really does.
I know. But I had taken a little visit back to my hometown. And was just in this place of just kind of needing to slow down, kind of again, just like. heal from a breakup, reconnect with my roots. And I was walking around, and it's downtown, so to speak.
It's so small, but there's this little sign that someone had put up in the middle of the town that says, Golden Texas, somewhere in the middle of nowhere. And I was like, that's a song.
So, um. Yeah, that was like, that was the first song I wrote for the record and I thought, okay, a record called Middle of Nowhere. I feel like I'm in the middle of nowhere right now. Yeah. In many senses.
Yeah. That's great that you can have it just sort of arrive like that for you.
Sometimes it doesn't, but usually it is one little spark of, it's a, it's, yeah, or sometimes it's you write a bunch of songs and then you take an aerial view and see, is there an overarching theme here? Like, what is speaking to me? Yeah. So, was that the first song you wrote? It was.
Yeah. It was. And then I started kind of just.
Okay, I was like, alright, middle of nowhere. What does the middle of nowhere sound like? What does it feel like, you know? What does the middle of nowhere sound like? There's a lot of negative space, but I always love negative space in my records.
I love. I love giving the lyrics room to breathe. And I work really well by eliminating things.
So in the studio, they like to call me the axe man because they think I'm just gonna come and axe things out. But I do because we will load up a track with, you know. a lot of different production elements, trying out different paint colors, and then little by little just taking elements out here and there and just till there's like just this perfect you said architecture a second ago. And the architecture of that balance is really fun and important and refined.
So once you're on this. I hate the word journey, but It gets overused. The journey. But it is one, in effect, once you're following something. Right.
You've got a thread. Um How do you chase that? Is it just you just start writing? I mean, do you have a ritual for writing? Do you have a discipline for writing?
Not really. I I mean, as I move through life, I'm always saving little seeds of ideas or titles or just little thoughts and say, okay, that would be a song, and I put that in my My notes app. to save, to come back to a you know, a time when I can really sit and like and join up with collaborators or like You know, mess around with it. And so I usually have like this kind of basket of ideas. At the ready, usually, and just kind of dig around and see if there's anything worth messing with.
Nothing worth playing around with. Yeah. How early on did you write DrySpell? Dry spell was Somewhat early on. I just had like open time.
Like, I don't know when I hardly ever have time like that just to amble around and just see kind of what's there. And I had that title written down in my phone. Yeah. Because quite literally, I was. Going through a draft spell.
And I was like, you guys, we have to write. We have to write this. And oh my god, that day, we just like the laughter, I was weak, I was hurrying. It was so funny. Yeah.
Well, that's something that's been in your music from the very beginning. Yes. But I did get away from it for a while, because I think I got scared that I didn't want to paint myself into some sort of like bumper sticker type lyricist. But I do like, I mean, I just like, I'm such a fan of John Pryan still. He's my one of my ultimates.
You know, I just I love that like turn of phrase and Yeah. Yeah I know we're talking about the new album, but I want to go back to the previous one because Cardinals is such a great song. Thank you. And that's basically about John. It is, yes, yeah.
I like to think he's a bit of a little Guardian Angel. Yeah, he was a mentor for sure for me and his sweet wife, Fiona. Yeah. But uh Yeah, we actually tried to write a song one time. I went to his house in Nashville and we didn't end up even finishing anything because I was just listening to his stories all day.
Tell me more, tell me more. And he was just telling jokes and stories. He's a great storyteller. I guess, yeah. He's like, well, we're probably not going to write a song, are we?
I'm like, nope, probably not. At what point do you decide you have it? The record? The record or a song? Either one.
Songs more so you just know, you're like, okay. I love this. This is good. I'm satisfied. The records are really hard to say.
I'm done. It's like At some point, you have to put the pencil down, you have to stop editing. But I could edit something. If I have the time, I will edit something till the end of time. I'll keep making tweaks.
I'll keep making. I mean, even when a record is finished and I hear it back like a year later, I'm like, I remember that was that thing that I really still wanted to change, but I didn't have time to do it. Yeah. So, what does that feel like when you're singing it? Singing it is a totally different thing.
I think the live shows kind of take on their own thing. But you're not sitting there singing a lyric and thinking to yourself. I should have changed it. No, no, I will fight tooth and nail to make sure a lyric is completely as good as it can be. can be in my own mind.
But yeah, sometimes we're like Guys, they're like, Casey, we have to, like, the deadline, no joke, was like literally yesterday. We have to turn it in. Yeah. How hard is it to let go? It's really hard to let go sometimes because you also, I think, subconsciously know.
That once you let go, it's not really yours anymore. And you know, you have this beautiful thing that no one's heard, and it's yours, and it's yours only, and it's therapeutic for you. And then you turn it loose, and it's up for dissection and other people attaching all their own feelings to it, which is the life cycle of it. It's beautiful. But it is kind of like, well, here we go.
And it's also like the. My creative wind does come from that shaping, like we were saying. And so when that cycle is over, it's almost like. Oh, you gotta It's just this big cycle, you know. When's the next one going to come?
It's a wave. When is that next wave going to come? What's it going to be about? I don't even know, you know? How do you feel at the end of that cycle?
Ah. Proud, tired, drained. Excited to do something else. That's, I think, why, like, in the middle of, you know, middle to end of Deeper Well, I was like already exploring these sounds, and but and then getting new energy from that was helping me keep. Deeper wall going, you know, in a way, because it's crazy.
Most people don't really think about the fact that, you know, by the time that they're hearing a song on tour, that artist has already lived with those songs for.
Sometimes years at that point, you know?
So you better really love the songs. Yeah. Do you fall in and out of love with your songs at all? That's a good question. Uh What's interesting is, I can write a song and later.
It becomes more true than it did whenever I wrote it, which is really interesting. I don't know if that's like a self- Prophet fulfilling prophecy type thing, or your manifestation. I've always wondered if it's sort of tapping into your subconscious somehow. A hundred percent. Yeah.
Um. I mean, there are several songs that I have written in the last like couple years that that I that I wrote and then they ended up literally becoming Very, very factual. They came maybe from like a place of vision or dream, you know what I mean? Or almost just like creating a story, inserting myself in it as the character, and then it actually plays out exactly like I wrote it, which is. Yeah, I don't know who's in charge of that.
Do you get excited when you write a great lyric? Uh there is no greater drug. Yes. Oh, there is no greater high than, I mean, like. Ask any of my co-writers, if we write a really damn good song that day and we feel like we've just really like, mostly I'm always in competition with myself.
Can I beat myself? Can I make this better? Yeah. Leaving that day and playing it in your car, you're like, okay, I have not lost it. You're like, that was good.
No, but there really is no better feeling than you're like, okay. Or like, you know, you might get a placeholder lyric. Knowing this might be better. And then you'll be doing the laundry one day, and it'll just kind of hit you and be like, that's what it should be. Yeah.
Do you start with a melody or do you start with a lyric? I always start with a lyric. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know that I've ever even started with Um a melody. That would be really rare for me, but I usually start with, yeah, like mostly a song title.
You do? And then song title. And then I go, okay, well, what is this title? Can it be flipped? Like, I remember, like, back in the day with like Space Cowboy, I was on the treadmill one day.
Yeah. And I heard the word Space Cowboy in my mind. But then I heard it like space comma cowboy. You know, like you can ever space. Cowboy, but oh, but when people see the title, they're gonna think that it's face cowboy.
Oh, got you! Yeah. Yeah, I uh I I like starting with the title and then figuring out how to like flip it a little bit. That's so interesting. I don't hear that many people.
I mean most people say Probably I know, I mean. A lot of people start with the track, you know, like a track or something, but I usually just, I've got to figure out the lyric first or the sentiment. Why am I singing? What am I singing about? I have to figure that out.
And then the melody sort of like paints itself into the picture as I'm going. And I write with a lot of people that just have really brilliant knowledge of like beautiful chords and structure. I mean I get by. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening.
And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average.
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