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Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Mm-hmm. This is Jane Pauley. He gained popularity on the show Schitt's Creek.
Now Dan Levy has a new streaming series and telling Sunday morning's Anthony Mason all about it. You actually wrote the pilot for this in a day, is that right? Yeah, Rachel Sennant and I sat down and wrote the pilot in a single day.
Well, the first draft of the pilot. Yeah, but still. I know, but I am a planner.
So the context around this, because there's writers out there that are going to watch this and be like, The outline process was intense. Was it? I always liked to really enjoy writing, and in order for me to enjoy writing, the outline needs to be. Yes.
So we spent a lot of time putting a very clear Detailed outline together before we wrote. But yeah, I think we got together in the morning and by the evening, the whole episode.
So, where does that obsession with outline come from? I think it comes from a fear of failure. Ah. I never want to do anything that I don't feel like I could be good at.
So when it comes to pitching an idea to somebody, when it comes to writing something, I always want to know what the idea is in its totality before I begin to actually write it. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's actually really smart, but I don't think a lot of people actually do that.
Well, I think a lot of people aren't riddled with anxiety and self-doubt.
Some of them, for sure, are. I just happen to be plagued with it, so it's like. You know, if I'm going to go to Netflix and ask them for some money to make this thing, I don't want to be stuck in a situation where. What I'm delivering is sour. Yeah.
So. You gotta do the work in order to then have it.
Well, I mean, it makes complete sense, because I've written things sometimes, not knowing where I'm going. I just have a scene in my head, and I think, oh, this is a fun scene, and you start writing. And the next thing, you know, you're at a dead end, and you can't get out. Out of gas real soon. Yes.
So you got to put in that legwork to make sure that the idea has some gas left in it for you. But I mean, I do remember when you and I talked during the pandemic via Zoom. Yes.
You described how when you were creating Schitt's Creek, I think it was your father who basically said we have to create each character. We have to fully write it out. That was a lesson I've taken with me with everything I've written since. Right.
So was that the first time you did that? That was the first time I'd written television. Oh, my God. How is that possible? I came from a, I was an MTV VJ.
Yeah, I know that, but I was thinking you must have been writing like. alone in your room at night or something. No. No, it was, I was. I hit the ground running.
I had to catch up and it was all just, that process was all just like. absorb, absorb, absorb. Right.
And I had the greatest. teacher and my dad. What did you learn? What did you learn in writing that that you've employed in writing this?
Well, a lot of it was the same. A lot of, I mean, it's it is a philosophy that I have inherited from my dad, from Catherine, from, I mean, they came from the Second City School of. Everything has to be grounded. You could make a character as ridiculous as humanly possible, but they have to live in a. In a real world scenario.
And so with Schitt's Creek, we. Spent weeks. Granted, my dad is a little slow.
So I don't know now how much time that would take me. But at the time, it was days and days and days and days. And I remember thinking, like, Do we really have to do this? I want to just get to scripting. Yeah.
But that was the key. Yeah.
Because so much of the discussion around character, the dissection of who a person is, the like brainstorming ends up making the writing process all the more easy.
So, Rachel and I. I'm I'm sure she had a sort of similar reaction to me, to my dad, which was like, Okay, so we're really gonna... deep dive into what the kindergarten experience of this character was like and it's like yeah Because it will help us down the road. Because a little joke somewhere in season three might have to do with that kindergarten class.
So. Yeah, I mean, I took all of that into this show, and it's been so helpful. Yeah.
Character is so crucial.
Well, I mean... But then It's interesting, well you talk about kindergarten. I mean, that's, you know, you're talking about very fine details here in understanding your character. But isn't that when we all get screwed up? Yes.
Oh, yes.
Somewhere in our very young life.
Well, I'm convinced that's the secret to everything.
So, if you don't know what the early days were like, it's hard to shape the person now if you don't know. what those moments of Trauma were like in their childhood that made them who they are. Yeah.
When you were. When you were writing big mistakes, was there any part of you that was like I have to live up to no. No. I wouldn't let it in. I don't think you can.
And you really have to lock the door on that. And almost accept the fact that if that is the big crown jewel. Fabulous. How wonderful. Everything else has to be something that makes me feel good.
And if an audience loves it, Excellent. Yeah.
Let us continue that st storytelling. Yeah.
And you don't ultimately have any control over that. No. Yeah.
And I think the internet has also created this like incredibly judgmental tornado effect of like A lot of it is really negative.
So any connection to other people's opinion is corrosive to me. Yeah, I can totally see that. Um Where did the idea for this show come from? I think Uh It came from a fear that I have of being trapped. Yes.
I like my freedom. And part of being trapped, and part of what goes into this sort of fear that I have is the idea of being blackmailed into organized crime. It's an irrational fear, but it is, I've now, in talking about it and in writing the show, realized that the foundation piece is a fear of being trapped. My fear of getting blackmailed into organized crime. Is a direct result of that.
Will I ever find myself in a situation where I'm being blackmailed into organized crime? Absolutely not. It still lingers in my brain late at night when I'm going to bed.
So that scenario was a terror and has always been a terror for me. And I've read about people who have been entrapped in those types of situations and The stories never really end well. Um and I just know that if I ever were tasked with Helping a criminal organization, I would be the biggest liability.
So that to me felt like a very funny place to start. Yeah, you saw the comedic possibility. I saw the humor in it. Yeah.
I saw myself. in that world and thought, okay, this is an exciting place to explore.
So, all right, so you've got that premise. How do you take something like that? and start to run with it. I think it was, I knew that I wanted to be a buddy. Comedy.
Yeah.
And I also knew that I wanted it, I wanted the thrills to feel real. Yeah.
Because I haven't really seen a lot of television that Is suspenseful? And funny. Yeah.
Um And that became the challenge because you have to legitimize the suspense. and the comedy. And the comedy's hard enough to pull off, but crime. Writing crime is The seventh ring of hell. I had no idea how hard that was going to be.
I had no idea how difficult it is to thread a criminal storyline through a season of television. It paid off in spades in the sense that we had the greatest time shooting this, and I love the show and think it managed to do it. We got there. But man. Right in crime is I have a lot of respect for For crime writers.
What did you find most challenging about writing crime? Earning the moments and the twists. Earning the stakes You want, you know, you got to keep people invested. Yeah.
And this show is very much a domino effect. One small thing happens, the domino tips, and it builds and builds and builds and builds. And I never wanted to go after the cheap. Yeah.
You know Gags that can make someone jump scare, but doesn't ultimately get into their bones. I wanted the story to really connect. I wanted the crime to connect. It's why we had a. A crime expert on hand as we were writing it, an organized crime.
Mm-hmm. Enthusiast expert who was able to then go through all of our scripts. Not a criminal, just an enthusiast. I hired a man off the street and had him read all our scripts and tell me, does this feel right for you? But it was so important that.
It was legit. I didn't want to do a surface level crime thing. I wanted it to feel real. And it was all vetted. It's all possible.
In the same way that you know, I play a a a pastor on the show and I wanted that to feel very legit.
So we worked with the a pastor to legitimize the That whole world of the show as well. You know, it's again, it all goes back to groundedness. Yeah.
If you break the bubble of the grounded world you're creating, you've lost your audience. It's true. I mean, But this is true, 'cause you all of a sudden you go, This is ridiculous. Yeah.
I'm out. And if an audience doesn't believe that we're in peril, then our shows toast. That's true. Um One of the things that's so distinctive about both shows is the casting. The casting It's extraordinary.
Thank you. It's how do you do that? I mean, I'm so glad there's a testing option. Is it terror? It's terror.
I think if you ask anyone, the casting process is... terror. Because and this is where what actors don't understand as well. You have, when you walk into a room as an actor, everyone in the room wants you to be the part. I spent so many years as an actor walking in and feeling like, They want to hire you.
We want to get the job done. Yeah, yeah. Um And I think again, the only comparison I ever had in this show was. I want this cast to live up to the cast of Schitzkrieg. We had the greatest cast on Schitz.
Everybody walked into the room and embodied their characters. It was an instant. Connection, I knew instantly that Annie Murphy was Alexis Rose. And So that was the process. That was the struggle on this.
Uh Was that luck, or was that. It was a combination of luck and circumstance and people being in the right place at the right time. I think that is. What casting is. Cast?
And that is also what an actor's... Journey to stardom is. It's them being prepared at the right time, meeting the right project, and walking into that room. And it's yours. And that was Taylor Ortega.
Yeah.
It's um It's so interesting. Directors have said to me that casting is like 50% of the whole thing, maybe more. I'd say it's more. Would you? Yeah.
And editing. And editing, yes. Yeah.
Actors need to be thanking editors more in award show speeches. You can carve a real stunning performance. Actually, you know who said that to me? Daniel Radcliffe said that to me. He said, I said, why do you like theater?
And he said, because he said, frankly, he said, your performance in a movie can be made by the editor. That's right. He said, on the stage, it's all you. Yeah, he's right. Yeah.
And I hadn't even thought about that. You do to give actors a lot of credit. You got to provide the material. You have to have something to work with.
So when you're done with the casting process, are you pretty convinced you have what you need or you are? I think when you when Laurie Metcalf says yes to your project, you know that you're good. Yeah.
I knew that the writing had to have been good if she read that and said yes. And you know the the show as the matriarch on the show It's dictated by the power of the actor who comes in to embody that character. Yes.
And when that person is Laurie Metcalfe. Even if everything else fails, she will be great. Every time she opens her mouth, I get excited. That's right. Yeah.
That is to be in the presence of Laurie Metcalf. Yeah.
It's like you're just like, oh my God, what's she going to do now? Yeah.
It's That's got to be was that a hard sell? No. No. I wish it, I mean, I wish I had to sell harder, honestly. She deserves it.
But we sent her the script. Yeah.
And I think within 24 hours she got back. Um Within 24 hours, she got back to us and said that she wanted to do it. Yeah.
One of the great joys of my life was getting that call. Um You mentioned Well, you meant, you meant. I want to go back to MTV. Yeah.
Because that was. That was kind of a Right. What did you And I remember when I read that you'd done that and I was like, It's not where I would have imagined. It's not where I would have imagined myself either, but it happened. And I was 22 and thought this is the coolest opportunity in the world.
Yeah.
Let's go. Yeah.
I don't think I was a good VJ. Why not? Because I was too nervous. and I had social anxiety and my job was to interview people. To this day, I question how it all happened.
But it was a place where we had very Little resources. And I learned to write for myself. I learned to edit. I learned to produce. I learned to be in front of the camera.
It prepared me for the totality of what it is to showrun. Um And I'm grateful for it. You know? I wore some wacky clothes back then and had a great time while I was doing it. But I knew in the back of my mind that it was not.
The end goal. I knew that there was something not. What was the end goal at that point? I had no idea. Because I I left for Los Angeles after MTV.
And at the time, I had become kind of recognizable in Canada. And in your 20s, when you can like get into a bar and get into a restaurant and, you know, it's like, It's nice. It's a nice feeling. But I knew in that moment that if I carried that level of expectation into what I was doing next, I'd be done for.
So I said to myself, on the plane to Los Angeles, if I end up working at a bookstore, I have to be okay with that. As long as I love it. And within six months, I had started to formulate the idea for shits, and within a year, I was back in Toronto. I had done a whole farewell tour to all of my friends in Toronto, being like, anyway, heading to LA. Nine months later, I'm back asking if they want to get breakfast.
They were kind. Um I want to go back before I go forward. Because you mentioned you did theater in high school. Yeah.
Um And you basically started the high school theater group?
Well, we had, there was a lot of teacher strikes. There was a lot of union tension at the time. And I went to a public high school in Toronto and. Um they shut down our drama program. Yeah.
And a handful of friends Uh and myself, we Started to produce all the school plays. We wrote them, we directed them, we lit them, we went to, I mean, there was a lot of film and television shooting in Toronto at the time, so we would go to all the props houses and ask if they could just loan us props for set pieces. And it was an incredible. Really, kind of memorable moment from high school was that. I think that was the great joy of my high school experience.
this kind of renegade group of people doing theater when yeah the politics of our education system was swirling around us. That's the Mickey Rooney Let's Put On a Show thing. It's very that. Yeah.
We did Clue. I adapted the film Clue to the stage. And I made Mr. Green. Yeah.
So What made you want to do that? I mean, obviously it's not. No, no. Just theater in general. I've always loved perf uh like performing.
Yeah.
You know, there's like very incriminating video footage of me and my sister and my cousins uh performing. for my dad's beta camera. Remember those? Yes.
Yeah.
There's a group of people out there that have no idea what this is. But yeah, there's, you know, it was, I loved. S making sp Mm-hmm. commercials. I I watched a lot of SC TV.
My dad would kind of put them on for us and as kids we'd watch them and it was so smart. And even at a young age, I was so fascinated by the concept of satire, comedy satire.
So that's where it really started. My sister and I and our cousins would film us making like weird commercials and. Sketches and talent shows and well, when your dad does that, it's all seems very possible, I would think. Yeah, I mean it was I I watched I you know I watched possibility happen. And that's the great opportunity of having someone in the...
Industry be in your home. What, um, So you go to LA. Yeah.
And suddenly you start writing this thing. And I'm like, I remember when I first started watching Shit's Creek, and I remember thinking. Whose head does this come out of? Right.
Well, my therapist is asking the same questions.
So it's a decent one to ask. I don't know. I don't know where it all came from. I mean, a lot of it is. Credit to the actors.
Yeah.
Like, but you gotta, you gotta, you gotta set the table. You gotta build a frame in which for they can do that. That's right. But for someone like Catherine or Annie, You know They just knew their characters, my dad. Um Emily, they knew their characters so well that it was I think that's the great joy and the humbling nature of being a writer.
If you write the script, then if you cast it properly, the actors come in and make you look so much smarter and so much better than you actually are. I mean, it was, I remember the first table read for Shit's Creek. that cast together even in the very first episode.
Something was working. And I remember hearing the script come to life, and it wasn't my script anymore. It was all of ours. And it was like that till the till the end. That's exciting.
It's the greatest thrill. Yeah.
And that was the first table read for big mistakes too. Yeah.
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Subject to change. Um Catherine originally said no. Right.
Catherine, we had made a presentation pilot. Yeah, she did that. 10 minutes. And that's it. Then the show got bought.
My dad went to her, said, Yeah. Do you want to come and do a season? She said no. Yeah.
He called me. And I don't know where I got the... Audacity, honestly, at the age of that, I think it was like 29. And I said to him, call her back. Wow.
Call her back and tell her we will only do one season if she hates it. She doesn't have to sign an option. And this, again, is the beauty of being in control of your own show. Because we could do that.
Now I don't think you can. If she hates it, I don't want to make a show that she doesn't want to make.
So let's just He went back to her. He pitched one season. She said yes. And that was that. Um The thing I felt when I was watching it, because it's I mean, it's It's become like my plane go.
I'm on airplanes when I'm like, I can't figure out what to do with myself. I just re-watch episodes. And I mean I'm just, I was looking at it the other day and thinking. What are they thinking when she does that? A lot of the times you could read it right on my face.
I broke so many times on that show, and you can see it. We kept it in because I liked the idea. that actors That the characters would laugh at other characters. You know what I mean? You don't think about it really because.
Um I think so often the funny things are not met with, like the people in the scenes don't think the person who's being funny is funny. Yes.
It really tickles me. to have the actual characters laughing along with the audience. And so we left in a lot of the times where I would be smirking or where I was struggling to keep it together because I thought, well, maybe that's what the character was doing too. You felt it at the table read, you said in the beginning. Yeah.
Did you feel it while you were shooting all the time? Yes, you did. Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, mainly with Catherine. Yeah.
I mean the fruit wine commercial. I knew when we shot that that even if the show was a disaster. Please let that clip go viral. Yeah.
Please, someone find it and put it on the internet. What's it like to be in the presence of something like this? It's awe-inspiring. Yeah.
And she would never do the same take twice.
So as an actor, it's the most exciting thing in the world because you never know what you're going to get. You could do the same scene six times and she would find different ways of performing that scene and keeping the audience alive. It was her curiosity, but it was also a tremendous generosity on her part to give us all that kind of spontaneity.
Well I mean, I was thinking about it. It's like she gave you a gift, but you gave her one too, because you gave her an incredible role. Do that in. It was there for her to make. Yeah.
And thankfully, she took it and ran with it. And it was then my job to just make sure that she had everything she needed to make that character what it became. Yeah.
And, um, Yeah, it's like one of the great honors of my life. Um As I watch that, whenever I go back to that show, which I do with great regularity. I remember thinking I don't know if you ever watched the Andy Griffith show as a kid. Of course. I mean, that was one of our references.
Was it? Yeah, yeah. It's funny because I was thinking, as I was watching, I was thinking, why does this show make me feel like the Andy Griffith show? Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like. It's got a lot of very eccentric characters. And But there's a There's an empathy in the middle of it. There's a warmth. Yes.
Yeah.
And there's a feeling of like community. Yes.
And people love each other despite their very obvious flaws. Which makes it very familiar. And timeless in a way. Yeah.
It is timeless, and that's the hardest thing at all to create. How did you know to do that? I just don't have a desire to write. Trends. Yeah.
I I would much rather create something that feels like it's suspended in this. I mean, shits very much feels like it's suspended in this. time that is both the present and the past. There is nothing At least for the most part, there's nothing that really defines it as being. Anytime, in the same way that we didn't want the town of Schitt's Creek to be.
A real place. It's a place that lives in people's minds. We don't need to say exactly where it is because that's not the point. The point is the story that happens in this town. We don't need any other context.
out outside of that. From what I've read, you knew what you wanted the show to feel like right from the beginning. Yo yeah. Yeah, yeah. But again, it was preparedness.
We knew the boundaries. And as long as you know your boundaries, you can have as much fun as you want. How did you learn how to do that though? Through my dad. You did.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
And, you know, I mean, the work that he did with Chris Guest on all of those films, I think, was also really informative for him. I mean, that level of improvisation required them to deep dive characters and. understand how they talk and understand the little details because From what I believe to be the case, I I they just outlined Scenes. And there were pieces of dialogue, or there were details that had to be worked into the scene by the actor. But other than that, it's left up to them.
But you still had to provide. The backstory, the two left feet, the fact that Cookie Fleck had thousands of suitors over the years like yeah That comes from character excavation. And he brought that to me, and it was the greatest gift I think a writer can receive: that kind of like. wisdom via experience from somebody who is as sort of brilliant as my dad is. The um The time we talked before during the pandemic was the eve of the Emmys.
Um Which had to have been it Just a mind-blowing night. Yeah.
Yeah.
It uh yeah. It was one of the great nights. You can't script it. If I had scripted that night.
Some executive would have been saying it's too on the nose. You can't win them all. You want them all. Yeah.
And I look back now on, because you know, those some of those clips of made their way onto the internet and it's Um I was euphoric. I was like. Out of my I was not even there. It was the greatest happiness. I've experienced in recent memory.
Yeah.
Well, it's hard to get. Greater validation than that. And it wasn't even the validation. I mean, yes, it's validation for sure. Yes.
The real, and this is not false humility. The the thrill for me was seeing Everybody else win. Yeah.
With seeing the show win, with seeing my co-director win, with seeing my cast win. That was the, I mean, when Annie Murphy, who I believe was the last award of the night. One. We had just been looking across the table, and she mouthed, I'm sorry. across the table because she thought she would break the streak.
Yeah.
And she didn't. And It was just. Everything kind of flashed back in my brain. When we walked into that tent in Toronto to sit down for that award show, I looked. I looked at Annie.
and saw Our first day of shooting Shitt's Creek. We were sitting on a bed. It was a scene opposite my dad and Catherine. Annie and I were terrified. We had very little experience.
All we wanted to do was a good job. And I looked at her in that moment and saw that young. Girl, and what had happened to us. And then, when her name was called, it was this. rush of How is this happening?
She deserves the world. And there's no greater feeling than finding someone. At the right time, giving them that opportunity and then watching this happen. It was. I still get goosebumps thinking about it.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, her performance is amazing. I was thinking this morning, it's like how there are names now. From your show. that I can't hear. in any other way than I heard them.
in the show like you like Catherine saying Alexis like Annie saying They did. Yeah.
I still get that on the street all the time. Yeah.
People saying ooh to me all the time. And I love it. It's great. I'll take it. Yeah.
It's pretty good. You also talked when we talked last time about what it meant to you to have a gay romance in the middle of that show, and you have one again in this show. And One of the things I was thinking about as I was thinking about Shit's Creek, and actually. There are certain shows that in their own way are kind of subversive. But they're actually They sort of slip in because they feel so good, but they actually accomplish something.
Do you know what I'm saying? Uh-huh. In the same way that I felt as a kid, that like Motown music was incredibly subversive, but nobody knew it, which is what I loved about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know how proud of that you were.
Yeah.
I oh yeah. I think when you're given the opportunity to write your own experience or the experience of your community, you have to tell it truthfully and honestly because so often it's reduced to something that is not fully representative of the truth. Yes.
And I think the reason. Schitt's Creek hit, and what I hope people respond to with what we're navigating in this show, which is a very different. Kind of queer story, but something that feels just as truthful. It's just the connection happens when you see yourself reflected on screen in a way that feels. Um Yeah.
Generous, I guess, for lack of a better word. Like, there's so many times where I'll watch gay characters and TV and film. be reduced to like things that cringe me out. And I think all people want is to just have some honesty when it comes to, and empathy when it comes to seeing themselves on screen. That's it.
I don't think it's a big Active I'm I'm not doing much. I'm just writing. The lives of my friends. I'm writing my own experience and trying to make sure that that is communicated as honestly and As sympathetically as possible, I guess. Yeah.
Yeah.
Was When you came up with the name, well, I think it was, was it your dad who came up with the name of Schitt's Greek? Yeah, my dad and the late, great Martin Maul. Did anybody tell you not to call it that name? Everybody did. Yeah.
You either loved it or you hated it, but it was what it was. It was exactly what the story was. Yeah.
What else do you name that show? Yeah.
Family misfortune? I don't know. That doesn't sound entertaining to me.
So you weren't gonna name it anything else? No. I think my dad was the one that was like. It's this or nothing. Really?
Yeah.
And CBC here in Canada just said, okay. Yeah.
Yeah.
I think you could, in Canada, they would let you do it. We did find the name in the phone book and say, this is a real name. It's also not spelled the bad way. Yes.
I don't know what else to tell you. It's just a sound in the end.
Now, you know, now we're being exclusionary of people who have that last name. Yeah.
That doesn't feel very nice. Name inclusivity. You achieved it. That's right. You did it.
Through all the shits out there, I'm so glad that we could represent your family. Your heritage, your lineage. It's there. Yeah.
One other thing I wanted to touch on, because you talked about anxiety. You've done it again with big mistakes. You did it with... with Shitt's Creek. You're acting Your show running.
You're writing. You're doing wardrobe. Yeah, I mean Budget. You're across a bunch of things. I was very lucky to have incredible people on both shows manage all of that.
We had uh it's Um But that's not, I don't feel anxious about that. You don't? No, I feel it's it's like invigorating.
Okay. I love supporting Every department, making sure that we're all on the same page, making sure that we're loving what we're doing. My job is to make sure that when people come to work, They're proud of the work that they're doing. When Schitt's Creek was called at the Emmys for Best Comedy. My Joy.
was for the team. It was for everybody involved in that show because It was such a group effort. That it wasn't my win, it was our win. And if I do my job properly, That's how it should feel. People do their best work when they feel like they're being respected, when they feel like they're a part of a team.
So for me, it's like, let's get some really excellent people together. We're all doing this together. This is not my show. This is our show. And if it succeeds, it's our success.
It creates loyalty. It's why the cast and crew of Schitt's Creek came back season after season. It's what I hope will happen with this show. Because we had, in both cases, incredible crew and incredible cast.
So. I'm just there to make sure that people Are excited to be at work and that the work is challenging. That the actors come back season after season feeling like. They have something to chew on because that in and of itself is a commitment. You know, an actor who signs a three-season option, you want to make sure that they're excited to come back and that they don't feel like they're doing the same thing season after season.
So No, and I don't mean to suggest it's all yours. I just mean that's a lot of responsibility. It is. But I don't think about that. I just think about making people, I just think about the end goal.
That's it. I get tired. Yeah.
And grumpy sometimes, but like. Great. Yeah.
Great. Well, I mean, it does mean you also have some control over it, more control over it. Yeah, thankfully. I don't think I'd do it if I didn't have. control over it.
Yeah.
That's a worst case scenario. Yeah.
is having an idea and it happens all the time.
Someone comes to the table with an excellent idea. A thousand opinions get thrown in. The end product doesn't reflect. The original. And that writer.
has to live with the fact that the idea they had ended up being something that they either don't like or don't understand. And if it if it doesn't work, you gotta have closure.
So I say this through the entire process to everyone I work with. If I can't make the show I wanna make, I don't wanna make it. And that's a privilege and a luxury that I know that I have. At this point in my career. But if we're not gonna do it properly, and if I, at the end of the day, won't feel.
That closure of knowing that what I'm putting out into the world isn't a direct reflection of what I wanted to make, it's not worth making. It's a betrayal. For me, and everyone who signed on to the original concept of the show.
So if you're going to fail, you'd rather fail on your own. Yeah, and if I'm going to fight, I will fight to the death because this is because I believe in what I'm doing. I don't make a lot of things.
So when I'm making something, I know what it is, trust me. When millions of dollars are being thrown around, it's hard to just trust somebody blindly.
So I get that part. That's the problem. Yeah.
But on the other hand, it's like, I know exactly what you're saying, because it's like. Look, either trust me with this or don't. That's where I think all the great Ideas where all the great like art comes from is. Letting people do Their thing. Yeah.
And often, if you think of everything that hits culturally, it's never what we expect. It's always the thing that comes out of left field. Because I think as people, we love.
Someone showing us something we didn't know we want. I think we love that way more than being spoon-fed something we think we need. Mm-hmm. And I think we're in a cross-section right now in entertainment where there's a lot of people that want to make things. Right.
It's so much more exciting as an audience member. to be taken by surprise, I believe. How do you know what you want to make? You take a lot of time. This was six years since shits ended.
Yeah.
Um And I know the commitment. I know the toll it takes on me time-wise, like physically.
So it was really about figuring out what is the story I want to tell for hopefully five, six years. And it took a long time, but. the minute we started to develop This idea, I knew it was right. And I know where it's going. I know how it ends.
At the very, very end, I have the image in my head of how this series ends. I think that's important. And I'm just so excited to start. The adventure. When you said it took a physical toll, what was the physical toll?
On, well, it's time consuming. Oh, okay. I was in a foam neck brace for the entire last season of Schitt's Creek. Why? anxiety.
Over. Over getting it right. And I was stretched really thin. I was directing. on top of writing, on top of acting, on top of producing, on top of At that point, there was press involved.
I oversaw a lot of the costume with our costume designer, Deb Hansen. Um I wanted to land the plane. I wanted to make sure. It's why I stayed.
So many showrunners. Leave a show after two or three seasons. It was an impossibility to not see that all the way to the finish line. And I take my tension in my neck. And my neck seized, and I couldn't move it.
So we would, I would direct in the mornings. At lunch, I would have an acupuncturist come to my trailer. This sounds insane, but it was true. Make me able to move my neck, and then I would perform in the afternoon. And It was not, I didn't even think about it because for me, it was an obsession with just making sure the show.
Hit. That we, that last chapter of that show, that it worked. But it's physical. I was working around the clock. I was writing all through the night, then getting picked up.
two, three hours later. Yeah.
acting all day, directing I mean it was but again I was Mm-hmm. 30 when I started making the show. This was the greatest learning experience, and I wouldn't trade it for the world. Yeah.
But it is a, it's a, it's an, I mean, there's a reason why showrunners don't get paid a showrunner fee. It's not a job. Technically, a showrunner is not a job because if you were to financially compensate a showrunner for all the work they do, I mean, it's endless. Yes.
You gotta do it for the love of the game. I don't know why, but I'm surprised.
Well, I do know why. I'm surprised you were that stressed out then. Because it felt like you'd set everything, I mean, you'd set everything up. But we didn't have any money. What do you mean you don't have any money?
Like everyone thinks that by the sixth season of a show, you're rolling in cash. We did not see a huge influx of cash.
So we were working with Kind of the same budget we had the whole show. Really, okay.
So the anxiety and the stress was not about. anything other than continuing to work under very tight circumstances. Making the most out of it, it was very scrappy. It was scrappy till the end. The show didn't really hit until we were done.
So it you know I had to, I was spinning a lot of plates. But I was having fun while I did it. Except for the neck brace part.
Well, I was having fun in the neck brace too. I just couldn't turn to say hi. Yeah.
I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts. CBS Fridays are a smoke show and they're hotter than ever.
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