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This is Jane Pauley. She's a popular author, podcast host, and CEO. Mel Robbins shares the secrets behind her success with Nora O'Donnell.
So, you know, 2026, the beginning of a year, people are all looking about how to improve their lives. Mm-hmm. Do you have some early, simple advice in early 2026? I have so much that I could say about this because I have been doing a year-end planning exercise since 2004. My husband and I take the time around this time of year.
You can do it at the end of the year, you can do it at the beginning of the year, to really think about what is it that you want. See, I think one of the reasons why so many of us get stuck in our lives is we don't actually understand what we want. And so, my advice for how to make 2026 one of the best years of your life is to stop and really ask yourself: who am I right now? Because you're not the same person you were a year ago. There are things that have happened in the last year that have impacted you in positive and negative ways.
There are experiences that you've lived through. There are lessons that you've learned. And you have values based on the things that you now know about who you are and the things that you've experienced and the things that have changed in your life. And so, before you kind of set resolutions or goals, I want you to stop and really ask yourself.
Well, who am I right now and what is it that would make my life personally a little bit better in the coming year? And it may be that this is the year that you put your health first. It may be that you realize that you didn't see your friends a lot. It may be that you want to spend more time with family. But if you can define what it is that you want, and you can define for yourself based on your values and where you are right now.
What would make your life better? What's amazing about the moment and time that we live in is that there are extraordinary resources available to you. to be able to make those small changes that over time do change the way you feel in your life. Why is it so hard, do you think, for us to define Who am I and what do I want?
Well, one of the reasons why it's hard right now to define who you are and what you want is that you are so focused on what everybody else wants from you. Work, family, friends, expectations, the message from society, the things that people are marketing to you, that you are so up in your head thinking about everybody else that you have not slowed down long enough to truly go, wait a minute, what's gonna make me happy? What's gonna make me feel more content? What are the things that are important to me that I've lost sight of because I've been so busy at work or I've been so busy taking care of my family that I forgot that I matter and I forgot that feeling good in my life day to day is actually important. I sat at a wedding one time next to one of my husband's good friends and he said to me, How are you?
And I said, Oh, you know, good, work is this, da da da da da. He said, No, how are you? And I said, Oh, well, you know, the kids are doing this and da da da. He said, No, I asked you, How are you doing? And I was like, I don't know what you're asking.
He said, I'm asking, how are you doing? I'm not asking about work. I'm not asking about family. I'm asking about you. And I didn't have an answer.
This was a while back.
Well, it doesn't surprise me. I think, you know, if you really look at what's happening in the world, and if I look at our inbox and I look at what I hear from our global audience, people are tired. They're overwhelmed. They are either worried about themselves or they're worried about somebody that they care about. They are feeling as though they don't have any time for themselves.
And so I do think that not knowing how you feel right now is a very normal reaction to what is a very overwhelming moment in time. I think one of the Really spectacular and inspiring things about you for many women is that Your kids are now grown. You're 57. People know you as an author and a podcaster. But you're also a bad Businesswoman.
Yeah. I mean this is a business, Mal. Oh yeah. This is a big business. It is.
It is. Just, I mean, explain what that is, what Mel Inc. is. It's a lot. You do work for corporations.
Yes. We have grown over the last decade. From really more of a corporate-focused business, where I would be speaking at massive conferences for big Fortune 100 companies. Moving into then corporate training programs, into creating content for corporations like Starbucks, JPMorgan, LinkedIn. We have a big partnership with Audible where we've created six different titles for them, audio series.
Built courses for LinkedIn. I mean, it just- Mel, you're a media mogul now.
Well, I don't really feel. I feel like I'm a mother of three that lives in Vermont that hosts a podcast that makes a huge global impact. But here's. What I love. about what I do.
I love the technology. I love the nuances. See, I have this opinion. that being good at something Is actually the price of entry. Like, you got no business giving a speech if you're not actually prepared and good.
What makes you exceptional at something. is paying attention to all the details. that most people ignore and don't understand are actually important. And if there's anything that I'm really proud of as a businesswoman. Because I see too many of my friends in their late 40s and 50s.
making a mistake. which is when technology starts to change. People tend to lean back because they're afraid, and I have always leaned in. There's not a job in this company. Whether it's talking about YouTube or it's talking about editing or we're talking about thumbnail design or we're talking about the syndication of the podcast on YouTube versus Spotify versus Apple, which are all different platforms, there's not a job in this company I can't do.
Because I leaned in and leaned forward and started Demanding of myself that I understand the tech and the nuances, because if you don't, People who do will run you over. And I think a lot of us in the media could learn a lot from all that you're doing, the traditional or legacy media from all that you are doing with tech.
Okay, from your first TED TOK, you started by saying I help people get what they want. That was a good hook for me. Still true? Uh yeah. But I think I've more than anything I help people imagine.
a bigger possibility. for their lives. That I inspire people to see something bigger. Than where they're at, and bigger may be the wrong word. Because what's interesting is that I don't know.
and can't tell you. what you actually want. And I don't know what's best for you. But what I do know is that if I can get you to slow down long enough, and I can get you to really think about what makes you happy. What's important to you based on your values?
then that is the first step. in you getting what you want. I mean, most people feel stuck, right? Stuck is the single most misunderstood human experience. And it is foundational to being a human being.
And so, this is the way that I think about being stuck.
So, Maslaw's hierarchy of needs, right? And if you don't know what that is, don't worry. I'm gonna explain it real quick. Your body is wired with all this amazing natural intelligence, and it is designed to send you signals when one of your fundamental needs is missing.
So, for example, When you feel tired, what's missing? Energy.
Well, yeah, but you need sleep, right? Yeah, yeah. When you're thirsty, what do you need? Water. When you are hungry, what do you need?
Food. Yeah. Uh, when you're scared, what do you mean? Comfort. Yes.
When you're stuck, Do you know what you need? Motion? Yes, growth. Human beings are designed to grow. The research is very clear on this in terms of the fact that you can learn new patterns, you can learn new skills, all the way up until you die.
Your muscles, even in your 90s, the experts will tell you, somebody who's never exercised, if you just teach them to lift some soup cans, their muscles are designed to grow. If you feel stuck in your life, it doesn't mean you're broken. It means that what's missing in your life is growth. And people, like I know when I felt stuck, I'm like, don't tell me to take a class. Like my life is broken.
No, what's missing is you are stagnant. And if I can get you to grow and learn in any area of your life, you start to change. Things start to loosen up and you start to see different things. And part of getting unstuck is to let them. Explain that theory.
Because I do think getting unstuck is let them. Yes. So the let them theory is the single fastest way. to gain control on your life. is to stop trying to control and change everybody else.
and let them. Let people be who they are. Let them think what they think, believe what they believe, do what they do, heal when they heal or not. and pull all the time and energy. that you are currently burning through.
Wishing people were different, being frustrated by what's happening, trying to change everybody. Latin. Button. and then focus on yourself. And when you learn to let other people be who they are, What's fascinating about this, because it's literally Stoicism, it's Buddhism, it's the serenity prayer.
When you learn to just let people be who they are. You Have this incredible thing happen. You recognize that, probably, like me, you've been living your life in reverse. You've been pouring all your energy into things you can't control, the number one thing being other people. and you've lost sight of where all the power is.
which is in focusing on the let me part of the theory. Let me focus on what I think. Let me focus on what I'm going to do or not do. Let me focus on the things that I feel and processing my emotions so they don't run me over. And then let me respond.
in a way that aligns with my values instead of being so emotional and stressed out all the time. It's incredible, honestly.
So, this is the very popular book, almost 10 million copies. Let them. But I kind of think the let me part is more important. It is way more important. Nobody likes the let me part.
Everyone loves let them, because let's face it, other people are crazy annoying. I mean, from their opinions to the way they behave to their mood swings. And so people love, I love let them, let them, let them, let them, because you feel superior. Right, like not my problem. Yeah, like not my circus.
Yeah, we want it, yeah, not, yes, exactly. Like it's stiff arming everybody. But this is the secret to the book. Because the book does two things, Nora. First of all, it lowers or removes the single biggest source of stress in your life, which is other people.
Right. And that's why people love it. But then you start reading the book. And you're like, wait a minute. I can say let them, let them, let them, let them.
But then I'm going to be sitting with myself. And at the end of the day, your power is in your response to things. This is the main thesis of Viktor Frankl's Man Search for Meaning. It's not about what's happening out there, it's your response. to what's happening out there.
The let me part is where your power is. Because once you say let them, you've just put up a boundary between you and every annoying person in the world. Normally, your family, right? And I say that with love because I'm the most annoying person in my family. The people that use let them the most are people related to me and everybody that works here.
But then you do the let me part. And that's where you take responsibility for yourself and your life and what comes next. And let's look at the word responsibility: it's the ability. to respond. And I personally spent most of my life blaming everybody else and being pissed off and feeling like a victim and being all righteous and judgy.
You did? Oh my God. I was like. I'm embarrassed. Frankly, when I look back at who I was and how I was in relationships.
I wanted to be a good friend. I wanted to be the kind of parent that was calm and never took my stress out on my children. I wanted to be that spouse that didn't have a lot of marital resentment in my marriage. I didn't know how. I was 54 when I started writing.
the Let Them Theory book with our oldest daughter, Sawyer. And I could not believe Nora. How out of control I was with my emotions and my behavior. And the let them theory taught me first how to stop judging and controlling other people. and learn how to accept people as they are.
And then the let me part really forced me to look in the mirror. And learn how to settle my emotions. Like, I was the kind of person, you ever get one of those work emails? where an email comes through and you're so. angry that you're like Or a text, yeah.
Yes, and you're like typing to, and then you like hit send, reply. Nobody ever responds to those. No, we have a rule: if it feels good, don't do it. That keeps us from getting in trouble on my team. Ha ha ha.
Oh my God, I love that. And I don't have the self-control.
Some people type it and then I just don't send it. I'm like, how do you not send it?
So I. Really with the let me part. Understood both how much power you have in a relationship. And I also started to understand that your energy is extraordinary currency. And I love this saying, leaders bring the weather.
And every single one of us is a leader because a leader is just somebody whose behavior impacts another person. And if you think about your energy, You can either be A warm person. Who is like a blue bird day? I'm looking at your blazer. Just this warm, welcoming, incredible energy.
Or you can be a thunderstorm. Energy is contagious. It is. It is powerful. Kindness, calmness.
warmth. purpose. This type of energy Is the most powerful energy in the world, in my opinion, and for far too long. I think I live my life either tiptoeing around people who were emotionally immature. or extremely like dysfunctional.
and by tiptoeing around them gave them power.
Now, when I say let them, I'm not allowing anybody to do anything. I'm recognizing who I'm dealing with. But does let them mean F them, or does it mean let them be who? I mean, do you confront bad behavior still? It depends on you.
See, this is the thing about. It depends on whether it's worth your emotional energy or not. Correct. And that's why this theory has become so powerful around the world. Because we're living in this moment where there's unprecedented change.
The headlines are terrifying. People are scared about everything. They're worried about people in their life. People's behavior is pretty obnoxious right now. And so it's not a matter of saying, let them as you know what them.
It's you drawing a boundary between yourself and things you can't control. I can't control whether or not somebody's a jerk. I can't control whether or not somebody's in a bad mood. I can't control whether or not somebody is racist or discriminant. I can't control any of those things, but here's what I can control.
I get to choose every day. Whether this person who's narcissistic gets in here or gets in here. And I get to choose every day whether or not they deserve a response or no response at all. I get to choose how much time and energy I put into relationships or not. And so, what happens is, instead of giving your power to other people, you're giving other people.
This space, and you're operating with a level of acceptance because you're not just saying, Oh, let them disrespect me, let them walk all over me. No, no, no, that's already happening. When you say let them, you're forcing yourself to recognize. what's happening. And then you're forcing yourself to swallow the next bitter pill, which is your power is not in trying to change that person.
Because that person's showing you through their behavior exactly who they are. Stop gaslighting yourself and telling yourself that person's got to change. Live by the rule that people only change when they're ready to change for themselves and they're not changing for you.
So if this is the table scraps they're offering, Let them. And let me recognize it. And now, let me choose whether or not this is attractive or worthy of my time or how much energy I want to put into it. Let me remind myself of my values.
so that I am choosing how I show up. Because your power in life is in how you operate. Your power in life is in how you change. And when you change your energy, and you change how you spend your time and energy. The whole world around you changes.
I have this thing, we can only control what we can control. When there's like some drama swirling about something, I'm like, We have no control over that. We cannot do anything about that. Like, let's not spend any energy on it.
Well, it's incredible when you understand, Nora, how much peace. Is available to you. Internal peace. When the outside chaos, whether it's stuff going on with your family or at work or the world at large, Does not rattle you. And the truth is.
If you are ever going to make yourself feel better, And then have that ripple through your family in a positive way and through your community in a positive way. And if we're ever going to tackle the problems that you see in the world today. We have to all get ourselves back to a point where we're not so emotionally frazzled. And where we're able to think clearly, where we're reconnected to our communities, where we are living our lives based on what we value. That's how we get back.
to life feeling good again. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview after this break. How many discounts does USAA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount, safe driver discount, new vehicle discount, storage discount, legacy discount.
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So if you read Mel Robbins, if you listen to Mel Robbins, you might think, she's got it all figured out. What do you still struggle with? Oh. What day do you want to talk about? I am always struggling with something.
Um I believe it or not. I still struggle to get out of bed in the morning. And one of the things that I believe is that it is a huge disservice to all of us to say that it takes 21 days to build a habit. I think that's only true if you like it. There are things in your life that you will always hate.
And it is always going to be a challenge for you. And for me, getting out of bed, especially on a cold morning, I live in southern Vermont. Is a real struggle. That's number one. Number two, as a mom, I very much struggle still.
with letting My adult kids. go through the ups and downs of life, And stopping myself. From running in and either reassuring them or rescuing them or trying to fix it. I love that you said that because let them does have some limits. Big time.
Big time. It has limits because if you have little kids, you're in charge. But learning to let your adult kids struggle. and stand let me stand by the side, and let me tell you that I'm here to support you. What I've learned in just the two years of writing this book and utilizing this every day in my life is.
That when you take a step back, but you still are very clear that you believe in them and you think they can figure it out. You're actually signaling that you believe that they're capable of it. And The other thing that I work on a lot still is just emotions. Like, I really don't want to bring my stress into work and take it out on people that work with me. I used to be the kind of person that would come home after a really stressful day at work and like drop the bag and snap at the kids and then I would say, oh, I'm really sorry, stressful day at work.
And my son Oakley would be like, look, I don't work with you.
So don't take it out on me. And That still gets me. at times. I think the other thing that I struggle with is You know, I think it's a mentally healthy response. to feel weary.
about the state of the world. but I am profoundly optimistic. because I believe in the goodness in people. And I believe that 90% of us want the same things. And I see like hope bubbling up.
I see goodness bubbling up.
So how does let them only go so far? First of all. It's so personal. and universal at the same time. Because it's a tool, right?
And it's a tool that you're going to use for stress management. You're driving to work, some idiot cuts you off. Let them. You get to choose whether or not you say let them. What if your husband's drinking too much?
Okay, well, this gets challenging because let's go back to one of the fundamental rules. People only change. when they're ready to change for themselves. And we dig deep in the book, into the research why.
So there's 57 world-renowned experts that we interviewed for this book. And one of the big chapters that people write about all the time and ask questions about is: what do you do? When somebody that you love has behavior that either drives you crazy or it's scaring you. And can be dangerous. And can be dangerous.
Yes. And here's. what I want you to know. Wanting somebody to be sober is a beautiful thing. Wanting somebody to be more motivated, to take better care of themselves, to make more money, to be kinder to themselves, to not date these string of losers that they keep dating.
It's a beautiful thing to want that for somebody else. The question isn't. That it's bad. to want someone to be doing better. The question is what's the most effective way?
for you to go about influencing that change. And what I learned in researching the let them theory and writing this book and developing the theory is that I was going about. Those situations, somebody drinking too much, in the exact opposite way. that all the neuroscience and all the psychology proves doesn't work. For example, I would suggest, I would ultimatum, I would roll my eyes, you didn't have another beer, didn't you already have four beers?
And when you do that, And you judge, what happens is, I now am trying to change you, and every human being needs to feel in control of themselves.
So by me judging you and me knowing it all and me having an ultimatum and me worrying and me this and me that, Instead of motivating you to change, I'm actually now judging you and creating resistance to you doing it.
So, how do you motivate the change?
So, you're going to follow the method in the book. First of all, this is the hardest part. You gotta let them. You gotta let them have the dignity of their own experience. You gotta let them heal or get sober or get motivated on their own timeline.
And you gotta understand the more judgment you bring. the more you're delaying the possibility that it's happening. That the most important thing you can do is to let them. be who they are and be who they're not, and then let me follow the science that works. And there's a method we write about in the book called ABC.
It comes from Dr. Kay, Harvard trained psychiatrist who specializes in gaming addiction. And A is apologize. Hey. I'm really sorry.
I've been nagging you, I've been judging, I can only imagine how difficult that is for you. That I've been so opinionated. I'm sorry. A. Apologize, ask open-ended questions.
I haven't asked you. How do you feel about your drinking? Yeah. Even if it's like fine, it's fine. Bologna.
You've just stirred up by asking them how they feel about it this friction. And friction is important because there's a certain amount of pain that people need in order to move towards something that feels hard. B back off. Might take six months, might take a year, back off. No eye rolls, no No, nothing.
Back off. back off because people need the space to actually feel in control. of choosing the change for themselves. C Celebrate any small thing.
So if they don't crack open a beer, on Sunday night football. Don't be like, see I told you you're gonna no. Just be like, hey, oh my god, you look so cute holding that cup of tea. Give him a little kiss. That's it.
No, I told you so. Because now the person's going to feel like you're trying to control them, and people need to feel in control of them. This is how you influence. Ask open-ended questions and apologize. Back off.
Let them, let them, let them, let them, let them, let them, let them, let them, let them, let them, let them, let them. And then see. You're going to celebrate in small ways the positive change. That's the only way. And look, there are going to be times where you do an intervention.
You might do it three, four, five times and then you're going to go, you know what? I'm done doing that. I'm done. Doing it because you're showing me through your behavior, you're not ready to change.
So I've got to let you, not because I want to, but because I understand I can't control this. and the way that it's been working. It's not working. And now I got to do the let me part. Let me tell you I'm here.
when you're ready. But I'm no longer paying for things. You're no longer living with me. I mean, this stuff isn't easy. That's why the let them theory is both deeply personal and completely universal, because it is operating.
within the fundamental laws of human nature. The lethal theory is a modern Tool that I created that is based in stoicism, it's based in the serenity prayer, it's based in radical acceptance, detachment theory, boiled down to four words. for you to be able to use in Modern life to help you erect boundaries between what you can control and what you can't, and then focus on what you can, which is your thoughts, your actions, your response. Great. Thank you.
You're welcome. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts.
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