Extended Interview: Michael B. Jordan

This is Lee Cowan. You may know Michael B. Jordan for the film Black Panther or Those Creed movies?

Well now, he's talking with Sunday morning's Tracy Smith.

So let's talk sinners. Yes, ma'am. All right, so when Ryan Kugler shared this idea with you of playing two different parts. two different people. What was your initial reaction?

I'm gonna do what? Yeah, I I think I think it was a little um A little bit of anxiety. I think a little a little bit of nerves. Uh Uh but then equal amount of excitement. uh at the challenge of it all.

Uh I think I think um I've I've seen twins portrayed on screen before by the same actor.

Some have been amazing, some maybe not so much. I think getting the right technique down of how to ac actually shoot it started to run through my head.

Okay, how are we going to do this? And I think that's something that Ryan also new Was going to be good for me, which is a challenge, and to kind of push me out of my comfort zone. And this was the hardest thing that I've ever done to date. It it it allowed me to Imagine the best version of it, but then also the excitement of figuring out: okay, how do we problem solve? How are we going to get this done?

What's the technicality? How are we going to get into it? I had all these questions, had all these ideas. And we just kind of took a pause, took a moment, and really got back into the the foundation of like who are these brothers, you know? What are the dynamics of an identical twin?

That's such a unique, specific relationship. That only exists between identical twins that are very, very special. I had an opportunity to talk to a lot of identical twins. And it was very informative and and and there They're kind of like celebrities in their own right. You know, like no matter what town you go to or wherever the twins are from, they're known as the twins.

The twins. People know them when they're in the supermarket and they're walking on the street, and you do get a double take. People look like, okay, did I just see what I thought I saw?

Okay, it is two of them, right? I'm not going crazy.

So there's a little bit of that. Celebrity, I guess, that comes along with being an identical twin that we wanted to tap into in this movie as well.

So, going back to the original question, I think when you first told me, the overall feeling was This is something different for me and I'm really, really excited to kind of dive into it. And and just get to it. You like a challenge. I love it. I love it.

I like evolution. I love... Trying to find my limits and boundaries, and whatever those boundaries are, pushing it, you know, breaking those boundaries. I want to talk more about that later because that's fascinating. But I want to go back.

You said so much of who we are comes from our childhood.

So I want to talk about your childhood just a little bit.

Okay, let's get into it. Your mom, at the advice of someone in the dentist's office, I think it was, started you on modeling when you were young, but you didn't think you were handsome? It would I think that oh yeah yeah, they're kinda accurate, a little bit. I I think uh my mom my mom has lupus and uh she we I went I used to go to our doctor's appointments with her and the receptionist there had two boys that was modeling at the time and I was maybe like ten or so, eleven, ten or eleven and uh she was like, Yeah, you should bring your son to New York and you know, go on some of the go sees and, you know, for the print work and stuff like that and And my own personal opinion, I'm like, modeling. Like, modeling wasn't something in my mind, was the first thing that came to mind as a kid.

And yeah, I started booking roles pretty early. I think my first go see that I went out for, I ended up getting was like for like a Frito-Lay commercial. Like, you know, those old. They probably still, I mean, they probably still exist, but like the chips that came in the long pack, and you had like the different brands of chips, different flavors, stuff like that. But they had a little point system on the back that you would collect them and you would send them in, and then a little booklet.

You could pick the toys and stuff that you want. In that booklet, I was like one of those kids. One of the kids. Yeah, I'm sure you guys will find it somewhere, and this is where it'll pop up on the screen.

Some embarrassing photo of you. And your mom was thinking this will help us pay for college? I think it was just, you know, I think it was an early. You know I I don't have any children, you know, but but You know, I think it's a As you're at that age, you're you're nurturing a child's um Ambitions and wants, and things that they're good at to see what takes and what doesn't, you know, and and and uh. And um and yeah, I th I think you know, earning a bit a bit of extra money around the house was definitely helpful as well.

And uh And yeah, one small success to small success and one stepping stone to another stepping stone, it became something I fell in love with over the years and became a. you know, a a career and Something that I kinda never looked back on. It just kinda been something I just Randwidth. Was there a moment when you realized, oh I like this, I think I want to do this for the rest of my life. Maybe not the rest of my life, but there was definitely a moment where I realized I'm falling in love with the craft, and I think that was on the wire.

I think that was the time. Um it's David Simon Show. Um one HBO and that incredible cast and filmmakers and storytellers and You know, I was the youngest on set, so I had a lot of, you know, uncles, you know, and big brothers on set that that. you know, um took me under their wing and gave me encouragement and helped me. You know?

With the craft? You know, I never went to any traditional school or, you know, acting classes up until that point. It's kind of been, my work has been my experience, my classroom. And um What a classroom that was. What a blessing, right?

You know, definitely. And I remember not feeling like myself and like just really, I guess the first thing being, first time being lost in a character, like really, not just, you know, reading the lines or whatever it is, was the first time I'm actually, oh, wow, this is like a. You know, I don't feel like me, you know, being lost in a character and I kinda been chasing that feeling. Earlier on, of like, Okay, man, I wanna do that again. Is there another opportunity like, you know, and that kind of gave me that bug, I guess, of the of acting.

That feeling of being somebody else being lost and yeah, or just portraying yeah, yeah, t of s of storytelling and and making it believable and and I guess, you know, and and you know. Wanting to do a good job at it. I was always looking around on set of what everybody else was doing. I love from the boom operator to the camera operators to the DP to the PAs to just all the people that were involved in the production I always found fascinating, which I guess fast forward to now. was my love of of directing, you know, and storytelling.

And, um Yeah, it just kinda Those are early stages of nurturing what that would be like. You were soaking that up from the beginning, looking at what everybody was doing. Never knowing that you were going to be a director. Yeah. Wow.

Not knowing I was going to act. I mean, like having a career as an actor, as a kid, you know, there's nobody in my family that came from this, I guess, that looked at it as a potential career. You know, I could think. Once I didn't go to college and I decided to move to California and pursue acting full-time, there was like no, there was no turning back after that one. Your dad, not a showbiz guy, Maureen.

His reaction to your wanting to do acting as a career? At a young age, I don't think, right around the beginning, I don't think there was a, you know. You know, what what parent at that age, not many, I think, would, you know, coming from that era. Oh degree Education means security, a job, and some type of livelihood, a craft, or whatever it may be. It took some convincing for him to kind of fully get on board.

My mom's a painter, she's an artist, you know, very, very, very. you know, free-spirited and encouraged in that way.

So So there was a bit of a You know I think once I I went to set And he saw You know, because at the time, obviously, I can't go to seven myself. One of them had to be there with me, and saw, I think, how I was treated by the crew and saw. how serious I was taking it. He, um This is my dad, something my dad always tells me: you got to find something, you got to be serious about it. Just got to be serious about something.

And I think once he saw that firsthand, he kind of bought into it. And, and, uh, And I yeah, I just never really looked back. That's great. I mean, you found something that you could be serious about, that you were serious about. Correct, correct.

You followed his advice. I did. I did. You know, I think, you know, not going to school, moving to LA, and, you know, at that point, listen, being a career actor. You know, and and And working enough to let that be your main thing, your only thing, is not.

Easy. Um And I was able to be patient. I was able to. go for broke each time, you know, and l right when I ran out of money or borrowed enough to get To the next month, the rent, or whatever it may be, right? When I thought, okay, this is it, I guess I gotta move back to Jersey or whatever, I gotta move back home.

You know, I always booked something that. didn't necessarily put me in a box, but always You know? move me forward to the next level and Um You know helped give me uh the foundation of you know, of of Of the craft, you know, and the shows that I worked on and. The people that were watching those shows. that ultimately the producers, the cast and directors and always kinda opened up doors for me.

you know, from the wire to Friday Night Lights to Um you know. films like Chronicle and Ultimately, Fruitville Station, meeting my director, Ryan Koogler, and Um Yeah, it just kinda Kept going from there. And then you and Ryan pair up again to do Creed. How life-changing was Creed? Oh, it was tremendous.

Funny story, like, you know, before we even shot a frame of Fruitville Station, Ryan pitched to me the idea of Creed and asked me if I wanted to play Apollo Creed's uh it was his grandson at that time. Apollocrease's grandson. And I was like, yeah, sure, let's do it. You know, like, I'm all in. Like, you know, and and uh and uh again, just That speaks to Ryan.

And his um you know, his ability to um You know, you trust him. His leadership quality. You want to. be a part of his his world and his uh You know, he's very uh reassuring in a way. That that uh That that That you just want to follow them.

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, let's do it. You know, and and and and and yeah, so like doing Cree So many different levels. The first time I transformed my body. you know, uh, you know, learned a skill.

That I continue to do today, you know. You still box? Yeah, yeah. It's a part of me at this point, you know. And working with the legendary Sylvester Salone and Yeah.

being in the studio system. in that type of way and Um just learning a lot. You know, and then learning. through Ryan also, you know, seeing somebody who It's first film in Fruitville, um first feature. And and then you know, leveling up and doing a you know, a spinoff to a franchise like Rockywood Creed and And then and then, yeah, yeah, it was a huge moment for me.

And it allowed you to level up too because then in Creed 3 You're the director and the star. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It put me on that path of Well, up until that point it was the only character that I played You know. Multiple times. Usually, you know, use a character, you know, besides television and episodics where you're coming back, you know.

know from episode to episode, but as far as a film, You know, from movie to movie, being able to come back and play that character again, the time in between, there's an ownership. even more in a in a a desire to and opinions Of where the characters are going, and you know what's interesting to you as a storyteller, you're finding out, and you know, where you want to put the camera, and what is a cool shot to you. How, you know. How this is shot in that, and etcetera, etcetera.

So yeah, that that was a That was leading up to Creed III. That was the moment that I knew it was time for me to step behind the camera. And um Yeah, tell tell Adonis's story. That's great. So For that particular series, it seems like it's okay to have a little bit of Adonis with you as you move through life, but I'm thinking about.

Black Panther. Was it hard to Sheikh Eric? Mm. Yes. Yeah, each character kind of lives with you.

You know, they don't go anywhere. They're they're there.

Some piece of that character is it it's a blurred line. Between yourself and and the character for me anyway. And with with Killmonger, with Eric, it was uh You know. A complex layered Antagonists. You know, I don't look at him as a villain, a villain.

I look like he I look at him as as an as an antagonist in a way because I think, you know. You understood them a bit? You know, he was the other side of a conversation. Think Him and T'Challa were a lot alike. They both cared about their people deeply.

and would do anything to protect them. I think they just had two different approaches. and um strategies and mentalities around it all. Shaped by their childhood trauma. And And Eric didn't really know a lot of love.

I think Eric didn't experience that. Uh you know, he had a lot of betrayal, a lot of failed systems um around him. that shaped him In his anger, in his frustration, And looking at history and how it would seem to always repeat itself, and how was he going to break that cycle? Uh So, for a while in preparation for that role, I didn't really speak to my family that much. I was kind of isolated a bit.

I like went into a. My my my whole and And tried to live like he would have lived for a bit, whatever that process was. And and and afterwards, after the movie, You know, it kind of stuck with me for a bit and you know, went to therapy, talked about it, found a way to kind of just decompress. And I think at that point, Still learning that I needed to decompress from a character. You know, again, there's no blueprint to this.

You know, there wasn't a lot of. You know. Wasn't a lot of people that Acting is a solo journey for a lot of times, this career, this path. You know, there's a lot of auditioning by yourself, practicing by yourself. There's a lot of preparation and the experience, the journey.

You know, and and um So learning as I went Realizing that, oh man, I still got a little something on me that I need to get off. Like, you know, talking is really important.

So you literally went to therapy to help. Rid yourself a little bit of Eric, or at least. Yeah, and then I think that spiraled into a bigger conversation and self-discovery of like, okay, you know, I think that's something that's necessary, you know? you know, for for for people. You know, especially men.

I think it's good. for them to go and talk. uh and get that off.

So so that's something that not ashamed of at all and very and very proud of and definitely helped me in throughout the years and to this day. Uh of uh You know, I don't know, trying to be a good communicator and uh Well-rounded person inside and out. That's great. Yeah. My therapist always says she's scared of the people who don't go to therapy.

Yes. Not the people who go to therapy. Yeah, you know, hey, listen, no judgment, but yes, you know, talking is important. Keeping things bottled up, you know, is a. You know, I don't I don't personally recommend We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview after this break.

Ryan. Koogler has said that Chadwick Bozeman's death messed everybody up, but might have messed you up the most. And I'm curious if you know what he means by that. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, you kn you yeah.

It's it's Chad's a very special person. And You know. We had a You know, uh A very You know. Do you wish I had more time with them? I think that's the the the a hurtful thing and Do you have those conversations, kind of?

Like, I know you say you can't say it in the flesh, but you find yourself talking to them? Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, I think, I think, I think. you know. There there's a you know, he He's in a place of higher understanding now, you know?

So. you know, the the saying of yeah, you know They know my heart. He knows my heart. And he understands. And and And I do speak.

to them. And you know, there's a moment. bringing it back to uh centers. Like there was a moment where Ryan It's early in production, maybe like the I don't know, maybe like first or second week or something like that and You know, he he we were to you know, it me being in in um the southern accent, the dialect. was was and and and holding it for the entire time.

was a challenge for me. And Chadwick w when he was playing t'challa. He never broke. Always kept his accent, you know. Um.

John. Mm. when he's at home, when he's on set, you know, he was all always had it. And and and and uh Ryan being you know the great director that he is and Sometimes knowing exactly what needs to be said and what an actor needs to hear, you know, to to dial in or you know, and get the best out of them. You know, it was one of those things like, you know, what would Chad do?

in the situation. Um you know, say to say we didn't have to, you know, there w there there was nothing else that needed to be said after that, you know, and and and it really helped me lock in. uh to to that element Um Yeah, so So that southern accent stayed after those words of advice? Yeah, yeah, it stayed in. It really...

Yeah, it really it really it really made a made a difference for me. Hmm? That's something about the two of you. You can have that shorthand, I guess, at this point, right? Big time.

You and Ryan. Big time, yeah, yeah.

So, speaking of sinners, and I know this is always an awkward question, but it's in the Oscars conversation, so I have to talk a little bit about the O-word. You've been in this conversation before. Do you? Try to block it out? Do you let that seep in at all?

No, you know, I mean Look. I The fact that I'm in this conversation, this film's in a conversation, you know. at this time of the year And people are still This movie came out in April. You know, the fact that people are still talking about it. means the world to me.

It means that The work that I did, the time, the effort, the sacrifices that was made. um resonates with people. And It's memorable. And it made an impact. Uh in That's the thing I really, really care about.

You know, those are the things that. Last forever. That's the reason why, you know, I love getting in a room full of people and watching a movie and that communal experience. And like, you know, we were saying, like, laughing at the same thing and looking and listening and vibing and talking to the screen. And like, that's what I love about.

films and movies and you know if i if i was able to contribute to an experience like that that that that is uh memorable and and Um It's still being talked about. It's a huge honor, you know. And then being able to celebrate the people that went on that journey with you, the fact that There's so many talented people. um that m helped make this movie. department heads, actors, crew, Um you know music supervisors, composers, editors, No.

Just that are all getting um the praise and the flowers that they deserve. If I can help champion them and their work that allowed me to do my part. in this project. Is um is great. That's great, and yeah, of course, you know, like, you know.

who doesn't want to be recognized in the field that you care so much about. You know? So, so Guess it That's what I'm saying. long-winded version of uh Yeah. Yeah.

I guess? Yeah. Okay. It was beautifully put. It was not long-winded.

One thing, after Black Panther, you bought your, well, before Black Panther, you bought your parents a house, but then. You continued to live with your parents up until well after you could afford to move out on your own and have your own house. This is true. Why? That makes I love my parents.

You know, I love them, you know, and and and uh You know. As we get older. And again realizing at times You know. Short and limited. Unfortunately We can't live forever.

On this planet, and we have a finite amount of time, and I have a great relationship with my parents, and you know, and wanting to be around as much as I could, you know. That that didn't bother me at all. I mean, it was it was it was pretty cool. Um Made for a lot of funny moments, a lot of great stories. Like.

Yeah. Y'all ain't got enough time. We ain't got enough time for the segue. No, no, but it it's it's it's just fun. You know, having being roommates again with your parents is is just imagining.

It's just all the things. I'm a night owl, you know, all these things, you know. They go to sleep early. Yeah. Insert moment here.

No, no, but but but it was it was it was it was great and and um I mean the goal, you know. Who doesn't want to buy your parents a house, you know, and your mom a house? That's always been the childhood dream. Retire your parents and not them not having to work anymore. And I could say I did that.

So that's like a Yeah, that's a bucket list. That is pretty awesome. And I got to say, as a mom, to have my successful adult son move back in with me would be just fine with me, too. It's good, it's cool. And now I'm just close enough.

You're just close enough. Just far enough away. Yeah. You're just close enough. Just far enough.

No, it's great. Yeah. It's interesting because I read an article that I think was probably four or five years ago where you talked about. your legacy, that you were thinking about your legacy. Are you thinking about your legacy now?

I think I'm always kind of thinking about it. But this point It's kinda just Who I am. more than me and intentionally thinking about what I'm doing for legacy. I think When you're younger, you... There's this idea of legacy and, you know things you want to accomplish and How you'll be remembered and all that good stuff, but I think I think Now, am I?

Late thirties. Um I think it's just it's it's more of um just being true to who I am. and and uh wanting to build things that Um be a part of things that can help make an impact and change. Um Yeah, that that That's around longer than our physical bodies. And how do you help?

You remembered how you help people. You know, who you help, who you put on. you know, life's hard enough as it is, you know, to be able to help. a person Whether it's through inspiration, is it through physical things, whether hands-on words of advice, whatever it may be, you never know what somebody else is going through. and and sort of be able to Um beer.

a contributor to Humanity. I think is fulfilling to me and excit and excites me.

So I've been lucky enough to do that through things that I love to do, you know, and that. are you know Not a lot of people get a chance to do those things.

So that's a blessing that, in a moment, an opportunity, I'm not going to let pass me by.

So I try to. squeeze every drop of life out of this thing. Uh in moments. and at the same time disappear. And just You know.

Just go. be in the back somewhere inches. Observe. You like to do that? Yeah, it's just like, you know, it's it's uh you know.

I like to get out the way. not always be In the lights. You're clearly a very mission-oriented person. Thanks, my dad. It's from dad.

Probably. Yeah, get that side for sure, but yes. That makes sense. Yeah. Do you feel like you've sacrificed any of the joys in life because you're so eyes on the prize?

Yeah. Yeah, I thi I think uh Hmm. Yeah? But then you make up for it in other ways. I think there's definitely a cost at the.

that comes with the discipline, I guess, and the the things that Mm. Maybe you can't indulge in as much as being somebody who is being watched all the time or being looked up to knowing that People look up to you. And you know, wanting to lead by example. And and and um not by talking but by actually doing, you know, um that that that Yeah, that you don't partake in certain things or in certain places or whatever.

So, yeah, there's definitely a cost at it. Um but it comes with other things that make it worth it. Like by my mom's house. Yeah. You know?

Like uh Being here is Talking with you. having this moment. You know? So these are the moments that that, you know, when you're by yourself and you're alone and you're you know, whatever. It's like.

You know, look back on it. It's worth it.

So you grew up playing sports, right? I did, I did. Was the name Michael Jordan a problem? Big time. Oh yeah, it was it was a uh you know.

I got teased so much. To the point where I almost changed my name. You did think about changing your name? I did. It was going to be Bakari Jordan.

Your middle name. Yeah, my middle name. Yeah, yeah, I was going to change it. And I was like, my dad's name is Michael Jordan. I'm named after him.

Like, I was like, I am. You know, and obviously my dad is older than Michael Jordan. Jeffrey Jordan.

So, but that just comes with a lot of talking and explanation. But as a kid, you know, playing sports, playing basketball. playing um whatever it was at the time and You know, kids you know. I got some s. And what would they say?

Well, you think you're Michael Jordan, that created? Yeah. Exactly. Exactly that. Not too creative.

But yeah, it was a lot. But it gave me a healthy chip. Like, it definitely made me want to be competitive and be good at it. I wanted to be great at something. I don't know what it was at the time.

but I want to be great at something. if not for nothing else at that time, just to like feel like I had my own identity. you know, in a in a in a world that was so, you know, that MJ was Mike, you know.

Okay. Understandably so. But there could be another Michael Jordan who could make his mark. Correct. And and that definitely Okay.

That was a part of the The alchemy, I think, that that makes that made me. Who I am today. That's great. Okay, this is a woo-woo question, but I'm going to ask it. Bakari means noble promise.

Do you feel like you fulfilled that? I feel like I'm walking in that. Yeah, I I think I think I I try I try to You know, I walk in that light. I think names are powerful. Um And and Yeah, and will continue to do so.

Big time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got we got a lot we got a lot more things to do. You know, we we we're just we're just getting started. Yeah.

I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts. It is my great honor to welcome you all to Starfleet Academy.

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