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Frankenfurter from the Rocky Horror Picture Show or the Smarmie Butler in Clue. This is Jane Pauley. Sunday mornings, Ben Mankiewicz is talking with actor Tim Curry about his 50-year career and his recent health challenges. Why do you think you were so interested in moving around so much? Where'd that come from?
I think it came from My for childhood Or or the way I grew up because My father was In the Navy. He was a chaplain in the Royal Navy.
So we moved a lot. about pretty much every eighteen months, I would say. Until you were like 11 or 12. Until I went away to boarding school at 10. Um, let's talk about your dad a little bit.
Yeah. What was his name? Jim. What did it mean that he was a Navy chaplain?
So how did you experience his work? By going to His services Mostly Because Sometimes he was at sea and Mostly he was at naval bases around the country somewhere. inevitably We would go as a family to His Chapel On Sundays For his service. And he'd give a sermon. He'd give a sermon.
He he was a good preacher. Like he held people's attention. He did. He came from very somewhere very simple and And Touching. I don't know, he was good at it.
He really could hold a room. Do you think that's where you got your ability to hold a room? Because that is one way to describe your impact: you can hold the room. Uh I sure try to. Um I'm sure it helps, yeah.
What are some of the qualities that you remember about your dad? He was very tolerant and he Really enjoyed people. And you mean tolerant, like he was not a judgmental preacher? No, absolutely not. Tell me about the last time you saw your father.
Uh he had a stroke. Um I didn't know what that was. Um And My m mother go Very worried by it and called an ambulance and The ambulance came and they took him down the stairs and out into the driveway on a stretcher and As they Um were about to take him into the ambulance, he said, Look after your mother. To you. To me.
You were 10 years old? Yeah, I was 10. because the same year I went away to boarding school for the first time. Um and I remember thinking How exactly do I do that? You know, it seemed like an awful responsibility for a kid.
It was. It was. And And I know that he didn't mean it like that. He didn't necessarily mean forever, right? Because he.
No, no. I don't think so. I think that he was also trying to make me feel older and more adult. In fact he did for like two years. He didn't die from the stroke 'cause People often do.
He went to A pretty crappy Naval Hospital. which was not exactly state of the art. Um And he got pneumonia twice and that's what took him out. That's why he died. And how did you find out?
I found out I was already at school, at this boarding school, and the headmaster I was told to go and see him and He sat me down and he said, I've got bad news for you. got very bad pneumonia and he's gone. He he's died, I'm afraid. When he said he's gone, did you uh did you know what it meant? I think so, yeah.
You missed your dad, though. Having my life run by my mother was a very different experience. Um Uh her expectations were different. She could be pretty chilly. I I actually think now that she was probably bipolar.
Because she could She could turn on a dime. And having the adult in your life turn on a dime emotionally has a huge impact. Because you tread very carefully. Or don't. Your mother lived well into your success.
She did, yeah. Uh Although she didn't Make much of it. It sounds like she didn't make anything of it. Really no She never said, Oh my god. No, she was scared of it.
Scared of what?
Well, she thought it would change me and make me The cheapest said to me later that I thought your head was gonna grow too big. Her mother was Irish, and I think a lot of my mother was Irish because There was certainly a whole thing about Not g putting your head above the parapet. Even though being it w it wasn't good to be noticed. Yeah, this my mother. Operate under the radar.
Yeah. You did not operate unsuccessful. Give a shit about the radar.
So when you play some of these delicious villains That you played so effectively is some of that rage. Toward Your Mother, I imagine, came out in those characters.
Well, I I I I'm in touch with anger, that's for sure. Uh I I I never have it. Feetles. Um And I think I and how to project it, I guess. when Frank is committing his particularly most heinous act in the Rocky R Picture show, is some of that directed at your mom maybe?
is not directed at her, it's just channelling. Right, inspired by her. Yeah. Rage inspired by her. coming out of The fridge where I've just Oft.
Meatloaf with an axe And I stagger out holding this axe. And I think there's maybe blood on it. But I found that quite easy. I I kind of knew how How to do that. Um I want to talk about what it did for you.
Both good and bad or interesting and not interesting or surprising or unsurprising. It was Never less than interesting. Yeah. Afterwards, though, you you became a Well, first of all, you became a cult. Icon.
Yeah. which is a very particular kind of startup, right? George Clooney is not a cult icon, right? Brad Pitt's not a cult icon. Right?
Jennifer Lopez isn't. These are how you're iconic. Yeah, but they're different. They share a big stardom pool. You had a a very specific And what was specific about it to you that made it?
Unique.
Well He he had a lot of power, Frank. He gave a lot of teenagers permission to be different and I'm Very happy that He did have that power. Your first real professional big-time gig was the London production of hair. Yeah. And that was a big deal.
It was a big deal. Do you remember the moment when you thought that this could be a... Because you weren't like a kid at 12, 13 who was determined to be an actor, right? Oh. Oh, somewhere around then thirteen or fourteen, I think.
I already wanted to be an actor. But you didn't get your first y you it was university though, right, that you sort of Yeah. started to actually really do it. Excited you about it? Um the freedom of being somebody else.
And and I think that I was like everybody else, drawn to the idea of Fame, probably, although I Came to kind of rather despise it. Why did you come to rather despise it? Um Because um I think the that I was rather a purist. About my work and about acting There were people, they know who they are. Who who Actually Just Well a kind of star personality.
And and didn't ever really disappear. I wanted to disappear. Into characters and I didn't want an audience to say uh Thank God here he is. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview. after this break.
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The Does that feel incongruous than the fame part of this business? Right? I mean, we. I didn't like it much. Is it because you thought people expected something from you?
That you Didn't think was Really part of you or I guess so. I never really know what they expect. You can't Tell You said as most people are people who are drawn to acting, of course, many of them are drawn to the. the fame bit but yeah but the fame bit is really driven to me by the affirmation Right, that you get. Yes, I suppose so.
And I I think everybody understands the desire for somebody to say nice job. Yeah. You in particular. who had one parent who would not say nice job. Under any circumstances.
I imagine the idea of being an actor was very appealing. To have an audience cheer you, to have other actors say great work. Afterwards? Absolutely. Of course.
And I also knew how difficult it was to become one. Um It took a while. Um So That was an affirmation of some kind. to be doing it at all. Yeah, you toiled.
I did. This didn't happen overnight by a long shot. No, I went down the mines. Um I did what I had to do, you know. what what I felt I had to do.
Because I I wasn't interested in a kind of insta fame. I I just wanted to be good at it. Um And there was a particular theatre in London called the Royal Court. whose reputation was Mostly to introduce new writers. New work.
Um And I was kind of lucky enough to start working there. and I worked there fairly regularly. with a variety of directors and There were some very good ones and some very good writing. Um And I felt valued and I I felt that I was doing work that was valuable. Yeah, that had to be incredibly satisfying.
It was. I'm interested in Clue in part because it also became a cult hit. It did. Right. You've had two of them.
Right, you've had the biggest one of all time, I think without question. And then also clue. I think there's something there that's worth investigating as to You're the star of both those movies. What is it about you that makes you a Cult hero. I don't know.
Clearly is it different? Cattle of fish really. a different kind of cult. I mean, it's just a film that people think is funny and different and It plays on T V once in a while. But it has real fans.
It does have fans, yeah. And it's very quotable. Do you get asked to say anything from it ever? No, I I I don't think My character is particularly quotable. The I buttle is pretty good.
Yeah. What's worth You're the butler, right?
Something like that. Um What exactly does the butler do? And Wordsworth says, I buttle. It's I enjoyed it. Yeah, I mean, Madeline Kahn, Eileen Brennan.
We got too much to get to. I want to talk to you about Madeline Kahn, but I. I was listening recently to an interview with Elton John. Yeah. And Elton John was talking about the madness of celebrity today.
And it got him to talk about Bob Dylan. And he said almost with great envy, Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan maintained this mystery about him. Like we don't really know who Bob Dylan is. And that's wonderful.
And it was with Howard Stern, and Howard Stern also thought it was wonderful. You have maintained this Mystery. about you. You're a bit of an enigma. I think it's important.
Um I think it's lucky. Because it means that that you don't have to come out of the same door every time. Which I'd very much don't want to do. Um And bring some kind of particular thing with you. Um Do you have that?
I'm very happy. To hear it.
So we know. on one hand, that makes that person unlikely to write a memoir and you took a while to do this. You turned down offers to do this. But very revealingly right in the beginning, Uh You say in the introduction to the book, Um This will not be a juicy Hollywood tell-all. Not because my moral compass won't allow it, or because I haven't had ample run-ins with juicy celebrities, but simply because I find such books immensely dull.
and highly susceptible to gathering dust. Yeah. You got stories to tell. But many of them aren't in here. Yeah.
That's For sure. Why the resistance to a Hollywood tele? Because one of the keys to remaining.
some kind of enigma is to not encourage An identity. I think And and I've tried to nurse that. You've protected that. I have protected that. and continue to and I'm sure will continue to.
I too admire Bob Dylan. And have Covered. A few of his songs, and I I I I'm a fan. Yeah, he has pulled off something that's difficult to do. He has You also write immediately afterwards, I also won't be dishing out lurid details of my love affairs.
I guarantee you, if it matters, that I have experienced true love, true heartbreak, and everything in between, including no small amount of wreckage. I have loved and been loved, hope you have too, but I'm not interested in your romances, you write, and specifics about my affairs or the heart or the bedroom are respectively. None of your Well, that's exactly how I feel.
Some Actors Like to brandish Their experiences as a kind of badge of honor. Um Uh I'm not interested. Even though your most famous role was a character who did plenty of brandishing.
Well, yes. Perhaps because that's your most famous character. Yeah, I guess. I know that when If anybody calls me and says I'm going to do a revival of the Rocky Horror Show. What can you tell me about playing frank?
And I said Um Forget the word camp. Because He's he's a guy. And he He prides himself on being able to f anybody. And that's not camp. That's his life.
That's his real existence. That's what he wants to do.
Well, let's get to the most important thing. 2012. The stroke. Tell me what happened. It was So strange.
I was actually having a massage. Um The guy who was giving me a massage said. I'm worried about you. I think we should. Call a doctor.
But you felt fine. I felt fine. I had no symptoms that I was aware of, but Clearly he had Notice some Um And he called nine one one and An ambulance came and And they carried me down the stairs. of my house. on a stretcher and put me in an ambulance.
and gave me morphine, which was Interesting. Even though you weren't in pain. I wasn't in pain. Um I was extremely nervous because I didn't know what was going on. They didn't know I'd had a stroke, and I didn't know either.
I I said, can you take me to see this? Sinai which is probably the best hospital i in the city. And I knew it to be. and they said they had to take me to the nearest one. which was a Kaiser Permanente.
But that's a sign that you are in mortal danger. I guess And and I think that's ambulance policy that Yeah. When somebody's dying and get to the nearest hospital.
So when did you hear that you had a stroke?
So when I was in the hospital and I was in the sort of examination room or whatever and they said you've had a stroke. You must have thought immediately of your father. I thought immediately of my dad. And I knew that A lot of people didn't survive a stroke. And that that he was an exception.
Um So I was scared. And then you had surgery eventually. Yeah, I had I still don't really understand what a stroke is. But I I understand that I had two blood clots in my brain. You had brain surgery.
I had brain surgery. You had invasive, serious brain surgery. Yeah, I did. And I was in the hospital for A while. I think about a month or Um And I had a certain amount of rehabilitation.
You had to learn how to speak again. I had to learn how to speak again. That was very weird. I hated not being able to speak because I speak a lot. Yeah.
I have to be told to shut up a lot. You love words? I love words. I love to communicate. Um But there was a very There was a very strong physically strong and kind nurse.
who used to wheel my bed out into the courtyard so I could get outside. and feel the sun. Which is important to me living in California. It's It's I guess the main reason why I live here.
Okay.
So It's beautiful here. Um And the people who were important to me rallied around So you have paralysis on the on your left side, right? Yeah. my face kind of went sideways, which was very weird.
So You've made an incredible recovery, but still you are living with limitations that you never imagined. My left side is still very sensitive. Two.
So it's any kind of touch or and it can my left arm and left hand So that's almost over. It would be very painful.
So you're not paralyzed there. You're feeling. No, I'm not paralyzed anymore. Right. Thank God.
Although I can't really use my left. Um or often my left leg. From reading the book and from talking to the people who care about you, there hasn't been a lot. I'm sure there was some. self-pity.
But the doesn't sound like there was a lot. I don't think so, I hope not. Because I don't admire self-pity much. Another legacy from my mother, I guess.
Well, that's a good one, maybe. A very good one. It's one that I'm thankful for. Why are you so important that we have to Pitchy you. I don't care.
She was a charmer too. She was a very charming lady if she wanted to be. I know her Like her own mother was a Different kind of disaster. Yeah. Um So in these last 12 years, I mean, we all think about it as we age.
Do you think about The end of your life? Are you afraid of it? No. I'm not. I I don't fear death.
Um I try to avoid it. Yeah. as I think we all do. But I suspect that In the end, I will welcome it. What does that mean?
I think it may be very comforting to go bye-bye. And I want to earn it. What what does that mean?
Well, I want to earn the privilege of not being here. But that doesn't mean you're looking forward to it. No, I'm not. galloping towards it. Um But it sounds like you think it might be something of a relief.
I think I I I may well embrace it. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts.
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