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Donate at plannedparenthood.org/slash defend. This is Jane Pauley. He started acting when he was just a kid. And at age 56, he's still hard at work.
Now, with a hit podcast and new streaming series, Emmy and Golden Globe winner Jason Bateman is talking with Sunday morning's Lee Cowan. You know, I play the audience usually. The person whose perspective we kind of travel through as Either the dramatic stuff is happening or the comedic stuff is happening, you know. I'm running from the guy with the knife. Or I'm you know, rolling my eyes at the idiot with the pie on his face.
When you say you play us. What do you mean you kind of are A tour guide, kind of? Yeah, I'm sort of the proxy for the audience usually in the things I play. By choice, by design. I really like being.
The responsible kind of tour guide, the person who can ground whatever's happening by virtue of what's going on in his face. You know, that's usually. pretty tonally declarative. You know, if if whoever is You know, if there's crazy stuff going on and you cut to the person who is processing that, depending on how they react to it. Establishes the tone of the project.
And I like doing things that kind of thread the needle between absurd and real, whether it be comedy or drama. And it's probably why I'm drawn to direction so much, because that's the person. Um with the job of Creating the experience for the audience. What's it feel like? What does it look like?
What's the environment you're in? What's the world you're in? Who are these people? Is it a fringe society or is it mainstream? Is it something recognizable or is it something that's kind of.
A little dangerously foreign to you? Is it the people you drive by or the people that are in your car? You know, what is that world? And so. That's also why I like to be in the things that I direct because that gives me two hands on the wheel.
You know, I've got one in front of the camera, one behind, and it lets me manage tone even more specifically. I guess there's a certain amount of efficiency to it, too. There is. It's very efficient. I don't need to direct that guy.
It's one less actor to kind of negotiate with. Not to suggest that it's a contentious situation between me as a director and the other actors, but oftentimes you're you're th i that part, that as I said, that that part who is us, if you don't get that just right, Managing the tone can be a little bit more cumbersome. And so the fact that that actor. Is reading my mind on every single take and doing exactly what I'd like to change in the next take without me having to give. Him or her notes.
And also, technically speaking, too, you know, I'm able to keep an eye on, you know, I'm aware there's two cameras there, and if I go over here, I'm probably going to screw your shot up. Like, you know, if an actor's not aware of those things, it's going to cost you a take, and then I got to come in and give him a note, and now we've got to do another.
So I'm aware of all the technical aspects because the acting's so comfortable for me.
So I like being able to do both and kind of get on with it a bit. This might go back to what you were talking about earlier, but. Um You'd said that at some point in your career you just kind of got tired of pretending that you were someone else. Yeah, there there's there's um I love watching the handful, and I don't think it's two handfuls, it's like a handful of actors that are really, really good at morphing into other people. Hmm.
There are some that are good at it, but there's only a few that are great at it. And unless you're great at it, just for me personally, you end up watching some acting. And you know, the key is to like, is to not act, you know, and and um Uh So I just I don't know, maybe I don't know if I've got the talent to do that, but one day, maybe one day I'll try to do that with the limp and the accent and the whole thing. But until then, I really like the challenge of trying to do the opposite of that, which is completely. naturalism and so that there's no acting and all you're doing is you're just disappearing as an actor and just doing this character that's servicing the story.
So you're just sort of relaying the plot points and doing it in a way where you're just snapping pages. It's like reading a book. You know, when you read a book, you're not really watching acting when you're reading a book. You're into the story and all of these characters sort of disappear into the story. You're not like, you're not thinking, wow, the way they just said all that dialogue and performed that.
That doesn't happen when you're reading a book. And so you're just appreciating the story.
So if you can find a script that's got a really good story, I like doing that, especially being the proxy for the audience. You kind of want to just be. us, somebody that's very recognizable and s something that's tangible. You had said that I don't know how old you were, but you basically knew there were three things you wanted in life. You wanted to get married, you wanted to be a dad.
And you wanted to direct. Yeah, direct a movie, yeah. I guess how does directing you know level up with With having a family of just those three days. You're right.
Well, thanks for digging the hole for me to jump into there. I'm gonna step around the hole and say being a dad and being a husband is tip-top, sincerely. Uh directing is just something that, as I said earlier, I just wanted to Be lucky enough to stay in the business long enough to use what I was learning. You know, it's such a fickle business and and and oftentimes is you know, longevity is is not a uh a result of uh of of of the merits sometimes, you know, since it's pardon the term art and and and and artist, it's it's also sort of Um you know, there's really no right, there's no wrong, so you're not really guaranteed Your position, you're not guaranteed longevity, you're not credentialed, you can't walk around with a diploma and be assured a base salary and. and some clientele.
So I just I wanted longevity. mostly to be able to provide for that family. But then also to be able to to to be in the chair that that asks me to use what I've learned, you know. You were so Young when you were doing little house on the prairie, but were you Were you Conscious at that age of like watching Yeah. Michael Landon kind of did.
Yeah, it was because of Michael Landon. He was the George Clooney of that day. He was the actor, the writer, the director. uh the producer of of what he was doing and he was uh Just the crew loved him and he loved the crew. The cast loved him.
Um Women wanted to be with him, men wanted to be his friend. He's just like, and he just made the set. Ah. a place you didn't mind being more hours than you were at your home. You know, it gets said a lot, you know, sort of, you know, it's a family on this project.
In that case, it genuinely was, those people were together through Bonanza. And then they stayed together for a little house in Prairie.
So I was really fortunate that that was my first environment, first experience to see how a set could run. You know, you can get all this work done and still be kind and respectful and not yell and walk through the process as opposed to run. And so. Uh that gave me uh an early um Um appetite for Wanting to maybe one day be in the position to create that kind of environment for people to work in. It's kind of a tangible Thing about you wanting to direct, that's what you wanted to yeah.
Plus, my dad was a director, writer-producer, and so he would always take me to movies instead of the park to throw the ball. And so, you know, you always want to make your parents proud and oftentimes do what they did. And so all those things kind of aligned, and acting was something that happened first because I was a little kid. No one's going to let a 10-year-old direct. But they let an 18-year-old direct when you were in the Oakland family, right?
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
So it did start there.
Now, granted, that was a studio audience show, you know, sitcom, so it's all shot proscenium. Cameras never get up into the set and shoot it like a single camera project, but it was still the responsibility of. Having to know all the answers to all the possible questions coming your way and to be able to. guide performance and Seven shots. What made you want to get into acting at such a young age.
Maybe that's a dumb question. No, well, the draw for acting really came from my dad. Taking me to these movies and explaining to me what was good acting, what's bad acting, and why. What part of that scene you just saw was directing. Um And why was it good or why was it bad?
And so I thought, well I'd love to try that. Plus, I wouldn't have to go to school because I'd be working on a set. And then one day a neighbor of ours was going to an audition, a friend of my dad's, and he saw me outside Washing my dad's car with him. It was a hot day. And he'd say, Hey, do you want to come with me to this audition?
And I was like, Yeah, please.
So I rode along with him to that just to see how on audition when I was 10. And they were reading for the role of the son in the project he was reading for. He's reading for the father role. And he said, and he grabbed me the sides, which is like a little piece of the script, you know, to test whether you're a good actor or not. He gave me the sides, he said, learn these lines and tell them that you're here to read for the sun, that you're not on the call sheet there.
Just say it must be some mistake that they forgot us. I said, all right. Am I going to get in trouble? He said, no, no, no.
So I go in there and I read for this thing and I end up getting the part. And I go home, my dad's, you know, just toweling off the car. And I said, I got it. And I said, will you take some pictures of me and send them into an agency, I guess, and see if they'll represent me. Maybe I can start doing some commercials and work my way up to getting.
jobs and T V shows and And it it here I am. That's wild. Man. Yeah. Were you like a kid in a candy store when things all started coming together.
Yeah, for sure. I I took to it really quickly uh And like anything for a kid, it all comes down to Getting a couple pats on the back and saying, You're good at this. You know, you're looking to see what you're good at as a kid. And when an adult comes up to you and says, You know, when a camera operator would say, you know, you really hit your mark well there, you know, or you did what you needed to do technically. Thank you for making my job easier.
It's like, Oh my God, these are adults, and I'm doing good as a little boy. And so that just sort of started to exponentially grow. And then you get some out-of-boys for your actual performance. And there was some crying on Little House in the Prairie. The fact that I was able to get myself to cry shocked the hell out of me.
Did it? Yeah, I thought, wow, this is real actor stuff. Maybe I'm. How did you do it? Do you remember?
I think it was just thinking about sad stuff, and then you start to. I bet any of us could do it. You start thinking about sad stuff and you start making faces, it starts to come out. Of course, now I've my crutch, it's it's it's Horrible. My crutch now, as I bring out my iPhone, I start flipping through pictures of my daughters and I imagine horrific things happening to them.
And then they say rolling and I turn it off and I put it in my pocket. It's a bit of a hack, but it works. Um For a time, it sounds like as your career really started getting going, that you were really. contributing to the family budget. Like your salary was was significant enough that it was really That must have been.
I don't know. Was that too much? Was it a burden, I guess? That's really what I'm saying. It just seems like that's a very adult thing to have to worry about.
Yeah, in retrospect, obviously. Being a 56-year-old man with two kids and a wife, it is a complicated thing. Um Back then though, I took it as Again, the cameraman behind the camera, the adult saying, you're doing great as a kid, you're being so helpful. This is helping us live in the place we're living in and paying for the school that you want to go to. And look at this new family car we bought.
And it was like, you feel like an adult and a partner in the family. And it gave me a lot of confidence that I could take on. The adult responsibility that I was living in at work.
So I just. I just felt great. Yes, I was 10, 11, 12, you know, whatever. Um But I was feeling you know, twice that age. which was helpful so I didn't have a panic attack, you know.
With all the adult responsibility. You know, there were moments of deep stress when it came time to. You know, a big grading period at school. You know, if you don't maintain a C average, you lose your work permit, which comes up every six months. And so, if I didn't have my work permit, I would lose my job on the show.
And if I lose my job on the show, Uh maybe we don't know. Make the mortgage payment, and all the people on the show might be out of work.
So, that you know, studying for exams was. Probably even more stress than kids regularly go through.
So, again, in retrospect, I I'd I wouldn't change anything about my childhood at all. But I don't think I would I wouldn't be comfortable putting my kids through that because I think I got away with it. Yeah. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview. after this break.
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The um The transition from child star to adult um A lot of folks Don't make that transition very well. Yeah. But you did. I feel very, very lucky that I made that transition. I was really worried about it.
Were you? Yeah, because things really slowed down for me in my twenties, which is that's the transition. You know, you're leaving. You're only a little kid anymore. Yeah, and and it's time to pay the mortgage for your own place.
And uh you are gonna want to get married and have kids and what is going to be your career? Um and this is a career that you're always a job away from Not having a career, and you're also that same job away from. being the biggest star in the world.
So You know, How am I going to make that transition? What's that job going to be? And so every audition I went on, I was walking in with those kinds of stakes, understanding that that's what I'm walking into. And so it was Really nerve-wracking. I was just riddled with anxiety.
going to two auditions through my 20s. Um And um You know, fortunately By the time I got to 31, so there was a decade of deep anxiety that was probably exacerbated by the amount of partying I was doing, which can feed paranoia and all that kind of crap, but that's another story. By the time I got to 31, I got arrested development, which Changed everything. Changed everything and put the paddles on the chest of my career and up came the heartbeat again because it was watched by people in Hollywood. And um The people that hand out jobs really liked it.
You know, Middle America was a little slower on the uptake, if at all. But they weren't handing out jobs, you know, in in in Kansas. They were handing them out in Hollywood, and Hollywood was watching, and that was really vital for me because I was kind of Not damaged goods, maybe I don't know, but I wasn't fresh. I was a guy that had done a bunch of sitcoms, and sitcoms were on the way out. Single camera comedies were on the way in with shows like Wonder Years and things like that.
And so I was kind of the old guard, and I was reading for these pilots that were trying to be newer and hipper. Arrested Development being sort of the zenith of that. When I read that script, I was like, there's no way they're going to see me for this. They're trying to do the exact opposite of what I'm known for. And then luckily, Mitch Hurwitz, the genius behind Arrested Development, remembered me from an audition a few years earlier for a pilot that he didn't cast me in, but he remembered that I had done really, really well in that audition, so he tells me.
And so he said, Yeah, yeah, I'll see him for arrested development. And then I went in and just guessed right with what they were looking for, which happened to be a comedic tone that was really similar to what I love the most, a very dry. Sarcastic, no winking. type of humor that I learned from my mother, who's British. You know, who's just very dry.
And so it was less performative like a sitcom would be because of the audience component there. You're sort of thrown into the back row. This was much more internal because it's the cameras up in the set, it's single camera.
So it was a great fit for me and came right in the nick of time. When you said you You guessed right on that audition, was it? Guessing? I mean, did you just hope that this is kind of what they were doing? Yeah, you always have to guess as an actor and an audition because you don't get any proof.
Pre-notes, pre-guidance. You maybe get a little bit from your agent if you ask. You can ask your agent to ask a casting director or the producers kind of what they're looking for. But for the most part, you read the script and you just sort of assume what is the color they need this character to play to make the other colors work. rainbow, whatever.
play a redundant. Um Color to what the other character seems to be written as.
So I thought this is the guy that needs to be. The semi-exhausted, semi-patient, you know, sane guy in a crazy family, which on the curve. makes me pretty nuts too, but less nuts. And what would be the fun of that character for the audience? Maybe seeing the fissures every once in a while that you could see, oh, this guy's absolutely as damaged as the rest of the family.
But when you see him with That family, he's the serious man. But when he's out among society, He's an idiot.
So i I like that kind of the polarity there. But had you played that sort of dry Uh sarcastic You know, no winking characters. And four? I don't think so, but in my personal life that was my humor. And I couldn't really do that on the stuff that I was doing in the sitcoms because I'd be underplaying it too much.
you kind of have to goose it a little bit. It's a little bit more, as I said, performing as opposed to acting. Hmm. The um when you were talking about your your partying days Was that Was that of trying to make up for lost childhood a little bit because you were working and Having some of those adult Yeah, for sure. For sure.
I was working so hard from 10, and I'd missed a lot of playing with my friends. And so when my schedule cleared up a bit in my 20s, I thought, well, let's take the opportunity to catch up a bit. you know, had some money, I had some Some independence there, you know, living on my own in this fun house and all of my buddies around, and it was. incredible. I mean I just had the best time.
And, you know, but, you know, I wasn't really factoring that. the industry wasn't really saving my place in line. You know, and when I'm done partying, they're not just gonna say, hey, welcome back. Here we go.
So trying to get back in was a little bit more of a humbling struggle for me than I had assumed. And so it was tough. It was really difficult. I thought the rest of my life, career is going to be anticlimactic. I've got to find something else to do in another industry as opposed to Banging against the wall and watching everybody else take off, and me just kind of stuck in neutral at best.
And literally, I've said this before, apologies for anyone who's heard it. You know, I was. literally very, very, very close to liquidating what little cash I had. putting it in a duffel bag. Going down to the Bradley Terminal at LAX, the International Terminal, looking up on the ticker board.
Finding a city that looked interesting and just unplugging and going there and plugging in and starting over and learning the language. buying a coffee shop with my duffel bag of cash. What kept you from doing that? Um An audition for something that I ended up getting, or I was also, I was shadowing the great Jimmy Burroughs, the television director. And I wanted to You know, instead of having all the sitcom experience I had be a detriment, be a sort of a hurdle, a barrier to hiring me, I wanted to turn that into a positive, all that experience, and start directing them.
and trying to be the next Jimmy Burroughs.
So he was kind enough to let me shadow him and sign me up with his agent, Bob Broder. And I was galloping towards that and directed a few episodes of some sitcoms. And it was great. I was feeling like an adult. I was feeling like I was using what I had learned.
And then arrested development happened. You've been sober, what, 25 years now? I think so, yeah, right around 25, I think. I mean, you know. I I w I have too much respect for people that really live the sober life.
You know, they go to meetings and it's nothing, nothing, nothing. I have I have I no longer do the drinking and the and the uh the scarface stuff. But there are other things that have been legalized that I think are just right. Yeah. Yeah.
Um When um I I guess it was it must have been in the middle of a rest of development or whatever when um when you host a Saturday Night Live for the first time. And it went so well. I read somewhere that you said that you actually thought about. going and talking to Lauren Michelson thing. Hey.
Yeah, well that you know, that place uh in Saturday Night Live is just I can't say enough for what they do over there. That The culture of accomplishment over there, week in and week out. It's like a Swiss watch, the way they're able to. Turn around sets and build wigs and write and punch up. It's an incredible thing what that crew can do over there at 30 Rock and that cast and that's been doing for so long.
Apparatus, yeah, for so long at such a high level. That I I thought, well, I don't want to leave. This was the greatest week of my life. And I think I remember, I may have asked Amy Poehler, because I knew her better than anyone because of Will Arnett. And I think I may have asked her or somebody.
Would I be embarrassing myself if I asked Lauren Michaels if I could join the cast? I could see it going one way or the other. He would say, Are you kidding me you would do that? Of course, you know it doesn't pay. You know, and you've got to be the hours are terrible.
Or he would say, Yeah, we're good. You know, do you understand the concept here? It's like we've got an incredible cast of players that basically have anonymity in comparison to the big high-profile host that comes in here every week. And so if we have you, somebody who is less low-profile, it would ruin the sort of.
So I never ended up rolling the dice and asking, but. That's uh That's an incredible job those people have over there. But it was that was your It was your love of comedy, though, that wanted it. It wasn't just the fact that it was a fun week. You really.
Yeah, but I. Yes, for sure. Playing different characters every week and. And being able to work with writers and write myself, which I think is the hardest job in this business. Writing in any form, filling a blank page is I don't know how they do it.
That would be incredible. But really, just really about the process. I do love product, but process to me is. is just stunning. Creating fake life is a really Fascinatingly sneaky, tough thing to do, and to do it with a bunch of.
really skilled technicians, whether they operate camera or or props or makeup or composers or lighting technicians, whatever it is, it's a really, really incredibly creatively fulfilling thing to do. And they do it at a speed and at a frequency week in and week out that would have been great, was great the two times I did it to be a part of. Speaking of Will Arnett. The Smartlist podcast has become I don't even know how to describe it. It's a mind blower to us three.
Is it? Oh yeah, I mean it's we're just we're doing this. Thank you for watching this. This is just two idiots talking, but hopefully we're entertaining you. But talk about, you know, three idiots talking.
We just We literally open up our laptops. 30 seconds before we're recording, just like any Zoom you would ever be on. And there's no prep whatsoever, and we just. Talk like three guys who love each other like we do, were the closest of friends. It came as a result of us wanting to be, you know, maintain contact during COVID.
And Sean, being the adult of the three of us, said, you know, Will you guys come by the office? And my executive would kind of put some numbers together here to show us, like. We could pay for it ourselves. It would take an hour. It's an hour podcast.
It's an hour Zoom once a week. And we might get a chance to talk to some of the people we've always wanted to talk to, but would never talk to us. Um So it was a great COVID hobby, and then people started listening. and we started getting incoming calls. One of Sean's guests once early, early on, was Paul McCartney.
And the the interview ended and we do this little wrap-up afterwards and and I said I said Sean, how do you know Paul McCartney? How did you get him? He said that was an incoming. And I realized, oh my goodness, that our audience size must be large enough where the brilliant publicists behind, Paul McCartney uh you know, done some research to find out, you know, That this would be a useful component to whatever press he was doing at that moment.
So it was. Very flattering. basically have the guest be more or less a surprise to the Other two folks. I think it was me. Will thinks it might have been him, whatever.
But it sounds more like me because the reason is out of just pure laziness. Although my work ethic is huge. Talk shows and stuff like that, I figure less is more as far as you know preparing. And I thought, well, if the guest is a secret to the other two, those two have to do no prep. And it's just one person needs to have a little piece of paper in front of them.
Yeah. So you each kind of have As as loose as it is, you each kind of have a role, it seems like. Yeah. So what's yours, you think? in that trio.
It toggles between being the dumb guy and being the adult. There's really nothing in between. I either, we actually all three of us take turns of being the battering ram and also being the punching bag. But uh I'm I I'm I'm I'm pretty curious. I I I like to I'd like to ask questions Uh Will likes to throw bombs from the sideline and he's To me, he's the funniest guy in the world.
No one makes me laugh more than him. Um and Sean uh is just you know He's um he's a stuffed animal with blood, you know? Like the guy is just the sweetest, greatest, most cuddly thing you could ever imagine. And he is a he's he's a he's a great He's a great ointment for the crassness of Will at times and me at times. And somehow, someway we found this little cocktail that works.
Did you ever worry or do you worry? as it's gotten bigger and bigger and you're sort of branching out the brand more that It could affect your friendship. Because now it's becoming a business and just a place to hang out? For sure. The three of us are keenly aware that one fight would blow the whole thing.
Um but that's not dissimilar from any relationship that's worth maintaining. You know, I mean You're married, I'm married. A lot of people watching are married or in significant relationships, whether it be with friends or a partner. Getting along is a choice, you know, and you have to call upon. Your maturity and your people skills to.
Care about what matters to the person across from you, and there's a responsibility to the relationship and to that person and to yourself to not ignore those things. And I personally need to run my life in such a way where I'm. I've constantly got enough. of a surplus of uh compromise and patience uh To be able to compensate for some of the things that might make me uncomfortable or might not jibe with the way I want to do things. And that's just part of being in a functional relationship, and that's a real important one to me.
Those three guys are my best friends, and it is. You know. ends up being the the biggest piece of business in my 40-some years of doing this. Isn't that remarkable? You'd probably never imagine Podcaster would be mixed to your name.
It's absolutely stunning, and we couldn't be more grateful for the people that make that possible, you know, the people that listen. But it's it's a it's a It's an incredible thing to have such a such a uh an enjoyable success. happen with people that you actually enjoy even more than what the product yields. You've been doing this so long and you've had had such a long career and a and a varied one. What chapter do you think This would be.
In your career now?
Well, Lee, I hope it's um I hope it's I hope it's halftime. Yeah. A, I'd love to live to 100, just because it's such a nice round number, you know? And plus, at 56, that puts me just at the halfway moment, because there's a lot I want to see. Um But career-wise You know, I do still love acting a lot.
Um But this directing thing is It's enormously challenging. in the best way. And Uh I'm getting some great opportunities with that, and I really hope that that. continues to ascend and You know, uh I'm I'm really, really happy that I'm At a place in my life where The idea of taking on the absolute limit of what I think I can handle. is not a scary idea to me.
And there's been times in my life where that was, where I've shied away from opportunity and responsibility because It just made me too nervous. It made me insecure. I didn't think I could handle it. That wouldn't change. A lot of work, a lot of therapy, a lot of good people around me, a lot of Fortunate collaborations with people that have yielded good work that I can kind of look at and go, oh, you know, maybe I can.
And then, you know, biting off a little bit more each time and seeing, oh, I did that okay, too. And confidence obviously lives on the back side of accomplishment. You know, like you don't really feel that confident before you do something. There's anxiety and there's trepidation. But going through stuff, the gift you get at the end is maybe some accolades, reviews, awards, money, whatever it is.
But really the real tangible commodity for me is Is confidence and a little bit more clarity about what you can handle. And I think that's what we're all here to do, you know. See what you got, run your car as fast and as safe as you can, but run it. And so I hope that I continue to get more opportunities to see what I got, what I learned last year, that. makes what I'm doing this year possible, you know?
You think Black Rabbits, one of the best things you've done? I think it might be.
Now, Ozark, I'm incredibly proud of. Maybe that's a a A tougher accomplishment in that it went, you know, four or five years. This is, you know, just eight episodes and out by design, but You know, overseeing the whole thing and working each episode so that it all flows as one piece is, you know, you're directing a six hundred page movie and that's uh that's a I uh that was that's scary. Um I mean obviously we had incredible directors that came after me, but that that oversight position that a director enjoys uh on a film uh is is is the job of my position in in in television. And so um That was that and I'm super proud of it and everybody associated with the show just.
did the absolute best they could do and and it was Awesome. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts.
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