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Download today. This is Jane Pauley. She's the Emmy-winning star of the hit streaming show Hacks, and is now a one-woman show on Broadway.
Here's more of Tracey Smith's interview with Jean Smart. So, call me Izzy. Yes. You could say that you have juice at this point in your career. That sounds good. I mean, really, you could choose to do anything now.
Well, just about anything now. Why this project? It was just one of those things where I read the script and I said, I have to do this.
I have to play this character. And it's just been a matter over the last couple years of finding the right time where I could do it. So you knew this was kind of in your pocket for a while? Yeah.
I mean, I hadn't been looking at it. It's always been just something like, oh, hope someday, you know. But then it started becoming a little more real last year, and we did a couple readings of it in Los Angeles for about 50, 60 people. And then we went to New York and did a couple readings of it, and the reception was very, very good.
And so we said, let's really seriously try to work out some dates. What was it about this character, Izzy? Well, she's just very unique, but it's not a kind of character you just see. She's unusual. She's optimistic. She's funny. I mean, it's heartbreaking at times.
It's hard to describe. I mean, on one hand, you could say she's imprisoned practically and downtrodden, but on the other hand, you could say she's just absolutely unsinkable. She's a survivor.
She's brave and a dreamer. It's just an amazing script. Ticket sales have already been brisk, to say the least.
That's what I heard. I'm so happy. How special is it that tickets went on sale on your mom's birthday?
My mother would have loved this, just loved this. Yeah, it's kind of like I love it when cosmic things happen like that. Yeah, yeah. Do you believe in that stuff, kind of things aligning? I'd like to. I mean, sometimes I think, what am I, what meaning am I to derive from that? But it is nice sometimes when things seem like kismet or something. It's been 25 years since you've been on Broadway?
That's what they tell me, I guess. About 10 years ago, we did a stage reading of the production of Man Who Came To Dinner that we did in 2000, that I did with Nathan Lane, and the whole cast came back. And it was a fundraiser for the Actors Fund. And I swear to God, everybody remembered their lines, everybody knew. I mean, we all were just kind of shocked, really, at how familiar it all felt. It was great fun.
Do you feel like those muscles are easily re-exercised, those Broadway muscles? It's just, yeah, that was a lot of fun. That was a lot of fun.
I think there was only one actor in the entire cast, and it was a big cast, who couldn't make it. That's amazing. It was really fun. For this particular role, it seems like it would be very challenging.
It's you. I've never done a one-woman show, so yes, it's mildly terrifying. More than mildly.
Because there's no one else on stage to bail you out if you screw up. And it's 75 pages of material. The longest speech I've ever done on stage was 15 and a half pages. And that was a little daunting. And that was when I was in my 30s and had a lot more brain cells.
So, we'll see. Is there a way to train for this? Well, I think just, you know, I've started trying to be a little more disciplined about supplements and vitamins and sleep and water and things like that. And I have a vocal coach that's going to help me strengthen my voice.
And we're rehearsing six days a week. I've been running lines with my boyfriend, so that's been very helpful. Is he a good scene partner?
Yes, he's a wonderful actor, yes. Do you take time off? You know, I'm really not a workaholic.
It probably looks like I am. I actually do exceedingly well with downtime and absolutely nothing to do. I'm very good with that.
I can look at fabric swatches and magazines for days. And, you know, just listen to music, watch the news, eat, you know. But it's hard, you know, I was trying to explain this to my kids because sometimes they say, Mom, you know, you've got to learn how to say no sometimes. And I said, Oh, I know that. I absolutely know that. I said, But it's hard when things come along that are the kinds of things that you've worked for your whole career suddenly are being handed to you.
And it's hard to say no. That makes total sense. Looking at your career, it looks like you've never not been working. Is that accurate? Pretty much.
Yeah, pretty much. I've been very lucky. Ever since I got out of college, I've been able to support myself as an actor, which I know is extremely, extraordinarily lucky. Yeah, I did nothing but theater for years, which, of course, isn't, you know, a money gig.
You know, you do it for the love. But, you know, I mean, back then I was single and I didn't have kids. And so you think, well, you know, next month's rattled some somehow, you know, materialized. And it always did, you know, somehow. And I was in Seattle, which was a very vibrant theater community. So I was able to go, you know, work at all the theaters in Seattle and then also do summers at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival.
And that, you know, kept me going for quite a while. Why did you decide to give television a try? Well, I had done theater for so long, you know, in Seattle and after school. And, I mean, I wasn't actively thinking about it, but my agents set me up with an audition.
These producers were coming out to New York to audition for a TV series with Lynn Redgrave. I thought, oh, well, maybe, I mean, I've never done anything in front of a camera. I'm 32 years old, you know.
Maybe I should give it a whirl. So. And it worked out. But when you were offered Designing Women, you were apprehensive about signing that contract at first?
Well, I had done, I think, four very short-lived series before Designing Women. And I don't know why I wasn't nervous or trepidatious about signing those contracts. Because at that time, you had to sign, I think, a seven-year contract. And it's kind of anathema to a theater actor. It's like, no, I'm going to commit myself to something like that, you know.
I don't know. Maybe I knew in my bones that it was going to go. Because, you know what I mean? I mean, I loved the character.
I loved the script. But I remember I started crying. And I thought, I've just sold my soul to the company store. What have I done?
I don't know. But it must have been that. But I knew that it was that good that it was going to stick around for a while.
And it did. Yeah. And it was life-changing for you. In many ways, yeah.
Yeah. Actually, it was a five-year contract. You met your husband on Designing Women. Had my baby during that time, my first baby.
When you first saw Richard, did you know? Apparently, because we were never apart from that day. Is that right? From the moment you met? Yeah. Yeah. Well, we were together.
It's actually the best way. I think meeting somebody at work is great because if you're attracted to each other, but you don't want to have the nervousness or the pressure of a date, but you're together all day, every day, because you have to be. So it's kind of a perfect excuse to get to know somebody. And so we were together those five days that we took to film that first episode he was on of Designing Women, which was the fifth episode of the show. The show hadn't even aired yet. And he was on the fifth episode, and he played Annie Potts' boyfriend. And I just, as Dixie Carter used to say, Mm, mm, mm, got to have me some of that. I'm sorry, Dixie, but you did.
I just, you know, yeah, no. I was very attracted to him, and he was incredibly funny and friendly and sweet. And, yeah, it was just, and he was doing a play, and he invited me to come and see his play. And I'd ask him into my trailer to help me with my crossword puzzles and, you know.
To help you with your crossword puzzles? Yes, showing my etchings. No, I told him, I said, you know, I said the only reason I'm being super, you know, nice to you and everything is because every week when we have a guest star, one of the four of us gals is assigned to the guest star to kind of, you know, make them feel comfortable and have lunch with them and that kind of stuff.
And I said, and you, this was my week. Is that true? No.
Did he buy it? No. So you said you had your first child during Designing Women 2. Did that change how you saw work or how you saw the future?
Oh, I think very much so. Because when I compare that to, and I loved doing that show, I loved those women, and Meshach, of course. And part of the reason I left after the five years of my contract was, and this is going to sound, I don't know what it's going to sound like, but anyway, annoying, for lack of a better word. But I really, coming from the theater and always having been broke and growing up without money, I could feel that I was getting used to having some money. And you didn't like that feeling? We weren't making tons of money. But we were making, obviously, good money compared to most people. I didn't want to get used to that.
I never wanted to make a decision about a job based on money. I knew that would be the end of my creative career. So I thought, yeah, it's time. My contract's up. I don't need to extend.
It's fine. I need to go. Plus, I had just gotten married, and I had a child. And so that part of my life was filling me up. And I didn't need, I didn't feel like, you know. But I mean, I didn't stop working. That's the thing. You never stopped working.
And then you got your first Emmy for a guest appearance on Frasier. Did that change things for you in terms of the roles you were offered or kind of how you were perceived? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe.
Did it feel like something changed? Because it was a different kind of humor than the Designing Women humor, a different kind of much different character than Charlene. So yeah, I suppose it did. I guess you'd have to ask casting directors. I guess that's true. What do you think it is that, you know, some actors are known for one thing, and they do that one thing very well, and people love them for that thing.
That is not you. You do so many different things, play such a wide variety of roles. Why do you think that is, that you can meld back and forth to all these different roles? Well, I mean, that's to me what the fun of acting is. You kind of become an actor to me anyway because you don't want to do the same thing every day, 9 to 5.
I don't know. I think my theater training, my theater background certainly helped because in school we did all different genres of plays, different kinds of characters, and to me that's what it was all about. It's fun to use. I mean, even people who aren't actors, you know you're in certain situations where you have to dress the way you're not used to dressing or something, and it's fun to bring out another part of your personality. We all have different facets of our personality, and it's fun to use them. So yeah, I have a friend who's been in a series for, I don't know, 12 years, 15 years or something, but they're happy.
But that's not you. But they did a lot of stuff before, so they've gotten that out of their system, and now they have a nice secure job. It's a quality show, and so that's, I mean, that's most actors' dream.
Oh yeah, oh yeah. But it's interesting how you do one thing and then switch it up. Like that's kind of been your... Well, but I've also been lucky to be able to do that. I mean, a lot of actors want to do that.
They just haven't been given the opportunities to do that. So I have been really lucky that I have been offered things where I've been able to... And I have to say, when I was doing Mere Up Easttown and then I immediately did Hacks, and they aired, I think, I don't know, a week apart or something, that was absolutely serendipity that really boosted my career like that. Just simply the timing of those two shows. So for that, I take no credit whatsoever. Just serendipity.
Yeah, because people looked at those two diametrically opposed women and went, oh wow. So that was luck. That was just pure luck. Well, it's kind of preparation meets opportunity, right?
There's a little something else in there perhaps. Well, yes, okay, thank you. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview after this break. Thank you.
It's starting to look that way. So let's talk Hacks. What do you love about Debra Vance? Everything. On paper, she was everything I could have hoped for in what my next project would be. Funny, moving. I got to pretend to be a stand-up comic. Oh my God, when I was little I used to think it'd be so cool to be a stand-up comic. I idolized Phyllis Diller.
Yeah, no, I mean it just had everything and I was just ecstatic when they offered it to me. And it amazes me that the writers are able to keep coming up with challenges for her and all of the characters and all of the characters become deeper and richer and more complicated. And they haven't lost the lovely butting of heads between Debra and Ava, which I was afraid would happen after season one when they got kind of friendly. That they kind of softened toward each other.
Yeah, that part would go away, the generational thing and everything. But they've been able to just ride that tightrope and it gets better and better. It's amazing. Do you know what's coming? I have absolutely no idea. Do you want to know what's coming? No, because if I asked they'd tell me. And you don't want to ask?
No, because in a way it's kind of fun to be surprised, but also too it's like real life. We don't know what's coming next. Wouldn't it be kind of nice if we did? We could maybe prepare ourselves a little bit?
Yeah, some of it would be nice, some of it maybe not so nice. I don't know. Has there been a time on Hacks when you've read that Debra's doing something and said, Oh, no, no, no, no, I don't know that I can do this.
I think once or twice when we were able to work it out. Because I told them in our very first meeting, I said, I have to tell you that you need to know this and I'm serious. You need to know this upfront that I'm kind of a prude. There are certain things I'm not going to want to say or do. And they laughed and I said, No, I'm not a joke, not being funny. Because I do not want to be the thorn in your side. I refuse to be that.
I want this to be pleasant and collaborative. I don't want to be the one that makes you crazy on the set because that's not my thing. And so I think there's only been in five years, I think there's only been one or two jokes or moments where we had a little bit of a, you know, and worked it out. So first season of Hacks, you can tell that you're on the successful ride. And then you suffer this terrible loss with what, five days left of shooting?
Your husband died. Did being on the show, and I don't want to trivialize it in any way, but did that help to have the show there? It certainly helped get through those last, well, of course, ironically, I was doing the show, but it certainly helped to be with incredibly supportive, loving people to get through those last five days because we simply had to finish the show. I couldn't just bow out of the last five days.
They were incredibly accommodating. They said, you know, you take a couple weeks off or, you know, you can do a day here and a day there, or you can do it all at once, you know, whatever you want to do. So I said, I was still kind of in shock, so I just said, let's just do the five days, just get them done. Do it all at once?
Yeah. The only, I had one rough day where we were doing a funeral scene, and I thought, I don't know if I can do this. But I took an Ativan. I had a few because I went through a fear of flying period, which I'm pretty much over.
But I said, yeah, and it actually turned out to be a really good and very, very, very funny scene about Ava's father's funeral. And yeah, that was a, it wasn't something that was expected, so it was very shocking and of course very traumatizing for my children, especially our youngest was only 12 years old. How do you, I asked myself this as a mom too, struggling with my own issues and then work and all of that, but how do you even balance being a mom and now a single mom and then the work side? I think it's actually harder now because I think for a couple of years I was just running on adrenaline and absolutely obsessed with the idea of being able to do it all and be strong for my kids, especially my young one, to let them know that everything's okay, mom can steer the ship and do it all. But that takes its toll and I was happy to do it.
I was happy to be able to do it. But people would say, I don't know how you're so strong. I said, well I don't, is it strength, is it? I don't know, it's just, I don't have a choice. So if you don't have a choice, is that strength?
I don't know. I don't know, you just do what has to be done, you know. You just take your kid to school and you go to work and you, you know. But I have more respect for working single mothers than I ever even could have dreamed. I don't know how most of them do it, I really don't. And I have the support and the resources that most single moms do not have.
I literally don't know how they do it. I don't. That's great. Is there anything that you would tell your younger self starting out in 1980 in New York City? Any advice you would give Jean Smart from those days? Pursue musicals more. Stay in New York longer before you go to LA. Don't eat so many bagels from Zabars. Yeah, that's it. Why not?
It was bad for my blood sugar. Musicals. Might you someday still do a musical? There have been a couple that were close. Well, I've been offered a couple, but I chickened out. Why?
It seemed really scary. The singing part? Actually, Stephen Sondheim, the last one that was offered to me was Stephen Sondheim. I don't know why I went and auditioned for him. I think because I used to sing quite well when I was young. And my voice had gotten in very bad shape. And I'm still working on it. And I started taking voice lessons several years ago, and I got so excited about being able to realize I could still sing, the teacher convinced me to audition for a good New York audition for Follies.
They were doing a revival of Follies. So I went and auditioned for Stephen Sondheim, and he offered me the part. And I was like, ooh, uh-oh. And you turned him down? I have a nice note from him somewhere. I've got to frame it.
That said... Well, because I told him there was family issues and needed to... And that was just part of the story? I think, actually, for that one, I think Follies was not one of them. I love Sondheim stuff. For some reason, Follies wasn't crazy about it, so I shouldn't have auditioned for it. If it had been guys and dolls, it would have been, bye, kids!
I'm going to New York. No, seriously, it would have been guys and dolls. Yeah, I just... It wasn't one of those things where I just thought, I'll die if I don't do this. So you didn't. Is that kind of how you make decisions?
I'll die if I don't do this? Kind of, yeah. But that's a luxury.
That's a huge luxury, but yeah. Or I have to work with this particular person or this particular director. But if I read the script, I have to hear that character in my head and go, oh, yeah, I know what I want to do with her. But if I just don't get any feeling from reading it, then I just think, uh-uh.
No matter how much money they offer you. Yeah, no, it can't be about that. I just can't. I'm not a Pollyanna, trust me, I'm not. But it can't be that. My kids aren't going to be on the streets, so...
If they were going to be on the streets, I'd do it, okay? But... So when you look at the future, what comes after Call Me Izzy? Well, we might be doing it somewhere else. I like that tease. Can't sing.
And we have another season of Hacks, of course, so that comes first. How much of a blessing has it been to have this job in L.A., so you can go home every night? Oh, yeah, no, I wouldn't have done it if it had been shot in Atlanta or something. No. It's like having a nine-to-five job, kind of, right? Yeah.
A little longer than nine-to-five, but yeah. So how do you look at the future? I don't know if you're one of those people that kind of wakes up in the morning and thinks about what you're grateful for or goes to bed at night and thinks about what you're grateful for. When you do that, what do you...
I should do that. Thanks, now I feel terrible. I'm a bad person. When you look at the broad future, what do you think? Well, looking at the future at my age now isn't as fun as it used to be. Yeah. Do I wish all of this had happened 20 years ago?
Absolutely. Why didn't it? I don't know.
Ask the casting directors. I felt like I could have made a lot more use out of that career boost 20 years ago. Because there's so many parts now I simply can't play just because of my age, so that's very frustrating. But I am extraordinarily grateful for all the amazing things that have been coming my way. I can't explain it.
Yeah, no. I mean, someday I'd like to do another great series. I would like to do some more theater. And my youngest is going to be off to college in about a year, which I can't even believe I'm saying that. That will give me a little more freedom in terms of my schedule. And when Hacks is done, I'll certainly have a lot more freedom in my schedule to do different things. But I also look forward to doing, for a little while anyway, nothing. Doing absolutely nothing.
Just pet her around the house and garden a little bit and go to the grocery store and play with the dog and just hang out and not get up early. And I call that just getting to be a person. Because sometimes I just go, don't I get to just be a person sometimes? I need to just be a person. You know, I don't want to always be doing, you know. I mean, this is lovely, this interview. But, you know, sometimes you just go, another interview. I get so tired of the sound of my own voice. I can understand that. People are going to get so sick of me.
Oh, no. Critics love the show. Audiences love the show.
You've won an Emmy every season. Do you allow yourself a moment to step back and go, well done? Yeah, I do. I do. Yeah. No, I'm proud of the show. I'm proud of everybody in it. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm constantly thrilled at how the audiences respond to the show. And the breadth of audience we have, young and old and male and female. That was a surprise and a real gift.
It seems to reach so many people. Yeah. Sometimes maybe a little too young, but... Well, yes.
No, you don't want... It's not a show for children. Although you've had children come up to you and say, Step up there.
Thanks, but where's your mother? Yeah. No, it's not a kids' show by any means, no. Is there anything that you've learned since the last time that you were on Broadway that you feel like you can apply to this new experience? That I've learned in life? Yeah. Just that you can bring to this show that it's like, Oh, now that I have another chance to do theater, to do Broadway. It can be no.
It doesn't have to be an answer. I'm not sure. I might be able to answer that after we start running the show, maybe. Okay, so I'll ask you.
I'll ask you later on. It's going to be a whole different animal doing a one-woman show. And backstage, it'll be very lonely. I'm sitting in my dressing room going, I thought you were particularly good last night. Oh, really? Thank you. I thought you were very funny. Oh, no, no. Oh, no, seriously. You nailed that joke in Act Two.
I was like, ew. Really? Oh, no, don't just say that.
No, really. See, I could just watch this for an hour. Bravo.
I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. The first season of CBS's new hit, NCIS Origins. Federal agents! Is now streaming. NIS, what the hell is that?
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