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With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your $1 per month trial at Shopify.com slash special offer. Good morning. I'm Jane Pauley and this is Sunday Morning. In recent weeks, Trump administration policies have roiled global markets, bringing greater uncertainty to the future of the U.S. economy and economies around the world. They've also raised questions about the autonomy of institutions of higher education. These are subjects weighing heavily on the minds of many, including a man with experience at the highest levels of finance and education, Lawrence Summers.
This morning, he shares his thoughts with Robert Costa. Lawrence Summers was once Treasury Secretary and Harvard's President. Now, he says President Trump is pushing the economy and universities to the brink. How serious is this for the country? Certainly this is the most serious threat to our democracy and our economy during my adult lifetime. The White House takes on Harvard later on Sunday morning. There's a popular Staten Island restaurant with chefs so familiar yet so unusual they've inspired a new movie.
Why? John Wertheim will take it from there. Hollywood gets its material from all kinds of sources. But a bunch of Italian grandmas in a Staten Island kitchen? We cook with love. The love is inside the food.
Well, here's the story behind Vince Vaughn's new movie. Where did you learn how to make this? My mom. Family tradition?
Yeah. Ahead on Sunday morning, dinner at Nona's. This week, cardinals from around the world gather at the Sistine Chapel to elect a successor to Pope Francis. That process, known as a conclave, starts Wednesday. And all these very real events have revived interest in last year's fictional film about the behind-the-scenes selection of a pope. Morning Martha Teichner looks at what that movie can tell us about the reality now unfolding in Rome. I don't want your vote.
Nevertheless, you have it. Conclave, starring Ralph Fiennes, and the book that inspired it by Robert Harris, are like sneaking past the locked doors of the Vatican to eavesdrop. It was amazing shooting those voting scenes. It felt like we were in the real place. It felt authentic.
It felt really authentic, yeah. Coming up this Sunday morning, life imitating art. Lee Cowan this morning meets Alex Matisse, a potter who incorporates the work of his great-grandfather, legendary painter Henri Matisse, into his own.
Mo Rocca is on Broadway for the play Oh, Mary, an unlikely reimagining of the life of First Lady Mary Todd Lincoln. Plus, David Pogue at Wegmans, the popular family-owned grocery chain. A story from Steve Hartman, commentary from Mark Whitaker, and more on this first Sunday morning of the month, May 4, 2025.
We'll be back in a minute. The economy and higher education. Two aspects of American life that seem to be at the top of President Trump's agenda. There are also two subjects that Lawrence Summers, former U.S. Treasury Secretary under Bill Clinton, and the former president of Harvard, knows very well indeed.
He talks with our Robert Costa. On campus, spring is often a sunny time. Finals are finished and commencement festivities begin. Education is a right. That is what we have to fight. But at some schools, there is now crisis.
We are here today to mobilize. President Donald Trump is ramping up an extraordinary pressure campaign on higher education, especially on universities he has vilified. It is clear to see the next chapter of the American story will not be written by the Harvard Crimson. It will be written by you, the Crimson Tide. A lot is on the line. Billions in research funds, the status of foreign students, the future of admissions, and academic freedom. Universities are on notice. The clearest example that we're all familiar with, of course, being Harvard, which is engaged in repeat, systemic, and sustained violations. Harvard University, which has had more than $2 billion in grants frozen, is fighting back. And I want to applaud Harvard University for having the guts to stand up for them.
I'm very proud of the university that I once led and still teach. Former Harvard president Lawrence Summers sees a confrontation over American values. If Harvard, America's richest university, America's university that had produced the most presidents, if Harvard couldn't stand up, nobody else could. What's President Trump's endgame with Harvard?
I think his endgame is to try to get the university to bend the knee. To correct what it sees as a progressive takeover, the administration has issued a flurry of demands on diversity policies and on how anti-Semitism is handled. A concern sparked by the protests following the Hamas attack on Israel. Summers says it's fair to criticize Harvard. Harvard's had a big problem with anti-Semitism. It's had a big problem with too many progressives relative to the number of conservatives.
It's had a big problem of paying too much attention to identity politics. But Summers says Trump is not trying to reform Harvard in good faith. He says the president wants to break it. The laws say you have to have hearings.
The laws say you have to give notice. The laws don't say you can engage in extortion. And when you simply cut off all funding based on a set of conditions, that's extortion. What do you say to an American who didn't go to the Ivy League and they think Harvard's a little biased toward the left? Why should they care about President Trump exerting pressure on major universities? I would say they're right to worry about Harvard being a little tilted to the left.
But I would also tell them that if we cut off funding for cancer research, cancer cures are going to come more slowly. President Trump continues to take aim at Harvard University. He says he will revoke the school's tax-exempt status. On Friday, President Trump escalated his fight, writing on True Social, We are going to be taking away Harvard's tax-exempt status.
It's what they deserve. That, on top of the held-up funds, could put Harvard's finances at risk. Responding to Summers, a White House spokesman told Sunday Morning, The real threat to higher education comes when places like Harvard let their students' civil rights get trampled. President Trump is standing up for every student denied an education or safe campus because left-wing universities fail to protect their civil rights.
Summers has been a force for decades, Treasury Secretary in the Clinton administration, then a Harvard president who was portrayed on the silver screen. I don't see this as a university issue. Of course this is a university issue.
There's a code of ethics and an honor code and he violated both. You enter into a code of ethics with the university, not with each other. His parents were both university professors and he became a tenured Harvard professor at age 28. Is this reckoning for American universities personal for you? I've spent my life in universities and universities are the source of so many of the ideas that shape society.
So, gosh, I think of universities as the place I've wanted to spend my life. Summers is also keeping close watch on the economy as Trump issues sweeping tariffs. What are they saying in the boardrooms across America right now about President Trump's economic policy? What's the real talk? I think there's a lot of anxiety. There's a lot of slightly stunned head shaking.
I think there's still hope that this will all be a bad dream from which they can wake up. Over the years, Summers has had the ears of both President Obama and Biden. I was talking to Larry Summers this morning and there's nothing inevitable about a recession. But he doesn't have President Trump's ear. If you had a moment with President Trump to talk about the economy, what would you say?
I would plead with him to set a course that he believes he can stick to so we don't have a kind of generalized paralysis waiting on his next press conference that tips the economy into recession. Lauren Summers says whether it's Wall Street or the Ivy League, it's time to brace for turbulence. So we're in the calm before the storm in your view?
If this is calm, I don't know that I want to see what a storm looks like. What's up Hoop fans? I'm Ashley Nicole Moss and I'm bringing you Triple Threat, your weekly courtside pass to the most interesting moments and conversations in the NBA. From clutch performances to the stories shaping the game on and off the court, Triple Threat has you covered with it all. Culture, drama and social media buzz, we're locked in just like you're locked in. Watch weekly on CBS Sports Network at 1 p.m. Eastern or on the CBS Sports YouTube channel as we break it all down fast and fresh. This is Triple Threat, where basketball meets culture.
Listen to On Fire, the official Survivor podcast with me, Jeff Kropes, every Wednesday after the show, wherever you get your podcasts. Joey, I can't. I can't do this for you. I'm not asking you to do this for me.
I'm asking you to do it for you and for my mom. What? God rest her soul.
You using Catholic guilt on me? I learned it from the best. Right on. In the movie known as Vince Vaughn plays a grieving man who decides to honor his dearly departed Italian parents and grandmother by opening a restaurant, but not just any restaurant. Our 60 Minutes colleague John Wertheim fills us in on the true story behind the film.
Consider it a side order of symbolism. In the shadows of Ellis Island and Lady Liberty, workers from all points on the map arrived by boat. They came armed with traditions and recipes from their home countries. Calling this joint a mere restaurant doesn't do enough lifting. Wedged into an unassuming block of Staten Island is a 30-seat monument to the healing power of food. What's on the menu today? Lasagna. Lasagna. Rabbit. Chicken cacciadore.
We'll stay. The origin story starts with death. In 2007, Joe Scaravella, a native of Brooklyn, was working for New York City's transit system. He had recently lost his Italian parents and his 100-year-old grandma, his nonna. He missed them. He missed cooking with them. We used to make suprasada and olives and everything, so I knew there was a lot of magic out there, and I was really kind of broken from losing my grandparents and my parents, so I inherited a little money and I had this idea. He'd never worked in, much less owned, a restaurant. He'd never even been to Staten Island, but he knew the unique restorative qualities of home cooking. In a moment of serendipity, he stumbled on the ideal spot and seized on an unusual concept, placing an ad in a local Italian newspaper.
Cercacci, casa lingo, which means basically you're looking for housewives to cook regional dishes. The responses came fast. Most of them widows, most had never cooked outside the home. All were happy to audition. On the day of the invitation, they came with their kids and they came with their husbands, and I had a house full of people following me around with plates of food that they wanted me to try.
It was like a Fellini movie. It was an amazing time. Opening night at Enoteca Maria, named for Joe's late mother, was like dinner around any family table in the homeland.
Customers loved it. In the kitchen, cooking sometimes became sport. You've got all these Italian grandmas in the kitchen together. How'd they get on? They did not get on well because they were all in competition, who makes the best sauce and who makes the best lasagna, and they were all very proprietary about their recipes. If one lady was here, she was not allowed to make any dish that another lady made, and they had this coat and they all stuck to that. It was a little frustrating.
It's like real Italian turf wars. Yeah, definitely, yeah. Still, Enoteca Maria became the most unlikely of in-the-know New York restaurants. Where are you from? Spain.
Spain? Yes. In 2015, Joe expanded his menu. The roster of now 30 nonas, as they're known, expanded to include yayas, sobos, and abuelas, and the menu expanded from Italian food to food of the world. We cook with love. The love is inside the food. Once a month, Egyptian grandmother of four, Helana Zaki, brings her secrets to the kitchen. They come here, and with their hand, they tell me, it's so delicious. It makes me so happy. It's called muloghea, it's a green soup.
When you eat it, you take some of this on top of the rice and the chicken. Greek yaya, Plumitsa Zimnes, was mourning the loss of her husband and lonely. Her daughter Maria was seeking to lift mom's spirits. I knew that cooking was her passion, so I stumbled upon it. I saw an ad that said international grandmothers wanted. I know an international grandmother? Yeah.
Where did you learn how to make this? My mom in Greece. Family tradition.
Yeah. When she came here, she was all dressed in black, visibly depressed. We talked about her coming in to cook and what ingredients she would need and what she would make. She came to cook a few times after that, and every time she would come, you would see a little more color in her outfit until finally colored blouses and everything.
So it's like the life came back into her. Put the honey. A lot, a lot. A lot of honey. A lot of honey.
So it's sort of a salty sweet. Yeah. More, right there. What?
Fantastic. Hi, this is Joe, Notice of the World. Joe is stubbornly and fittingly low-tech, working the phones to accept reservations.
As for managing the rotating staff, he resembles a concert promoter scrambling to fill dates with star performers. Despite its packed tables, the place, Joe says, hasn't made a dime. Take a nice focaccia. Oh, manja manja. After 18 years, the unlikely restaurateur is still funding it out of his pocket, in part because, yes, he pays his kitchen staff well, in part because the menu prices are reasonable, cash only. One, two...
Besides, currency comes in other forms. Hi, this is Nona from Trinidad. Come on down here and get yourself some lovin' from the oven.
The grandmas have become social media sensations. And where are you from? Well, I'm actually, I'm from the Bronx.
The new movie starring Vince Vaughn comes out this week on Netflix. Food is love. And as long as I have their food, then I'm gonna have them. I really, really want this place to feel like family.
Oh, thank you. We have some kind of Michelin gourmand rating, and people will come in and they want to rate us on how good the food is or how good the service is. That's not what we do.
That's not who we are. So I don't pay any attention to that stuff, but absolutely everybody should get a good piece of lasagna and a good meal and a good glass of wine. Thank you for coming. Thank you. All giving a whole new flavor to the concept of comfort food.
And it's all made with love. Mary Todd Lincoln's time as First Lady of the United States ended 160 years ago when her husband, President Abraham Lincoln, was assassinated. But a comedy version of her story, yes, it's a comedy, is now a hit on Broadway. Mo Rocca has our tickets. For God's sake, Mary, how would it look for the First Lady of the United States to be flitting about the stage right now in the ruins of war? How would it look sensational? O Mary may be Broadway's most unlikely offering this season.
Why are you so impossible? A wildly over-the-top, not at all historically accurate look at First Lady Mary Todd Lincoln written by and starring Cole Escola. Hi, picking up tickets for the big play? O Mary is a broad comedy about Mary Todd Lincoln and her secret passion of becoming a cabaret star. Meanwhile, her husband Abe is just wrapping up the Civil War, and so he's more concerned with keeping the country together. Do we know it's inappropriate? We're at war! With who?
The South! Of what? It's not a revival. It has no movie stars.
Well, speak for yourself. And it's a smash hit. The thing I love more than anything on earth is cabaret! It's breaking box office records. What does that say? Inflation is high. That's all it says. And the ticket prices are outrageous.
And that ticket prices are outrageous. So when did you come up with the idea? In 2009, I sent an e-mail to myself that said, what if Abraham Lincoln's assassination wasn't such a bad thing for Mary Todd? You know, like, Mary starting over, like, now I'm single, I can date, you know? When you keep me off the stage, you make the whole world miserable!
But this fever dream Mary remained just a dream for years. I loved this idea so much, I didn't want it to get on paper and for it to disappoint me. To disappoint me, not just the audience, but, like, me.
There are certain ideas that you're just like, oh, I don't want to plant this seed because what if it's an ugly flower? Escola eventually wrote the play. Oh, Mary opened to rapturous reviews downtown, quickly moved uptown to Broadway, and just this week earned five Tony nominations, including two for 38-year-old Escola for Best Play and Best Actor. Where to?
Broadway. It's all a long way from rural Oregon where Escola was raised. The family had little money with a Vietnam veteran father, Escola says, who suffered from mental illness. When I was maybe five years old, my father chased us out of the home with a shotgun. He was having some sort of alcoholic manic break and thought that there were people after him, and so he chased my mother, my brother, and I out of the trailer, and then we moved out and didn't come back. The family moved in with Cole's grandmother. Then her and I shared a bedroom, and I remember that's when she taught me to read.
That's a big deal. Yeah, and she was in the beginning stages of Alzheimer's, so she would repeat stories a lot, but I loved them. I loved her stories. I realize now when she would tell these stories, we were like meeting in the middle of her memory. Like she was living out the fantasy of her childhood, and I was also living out my fantasy of being a young girl on a farm in Alberta. And you didn't mind that she was repeating the stories? No, no, because she would remember certain details in a new telling or like leave something out, and then I got to be like, you know. And you were wearing a dress, right, Grandma? And is it right that she gave you a Barbie when you were five? Yeah, she gave me my first Barbie. It just completely took me at face value when I was doing something that wasn't what boys were supposed to do. Her understanding proved prescient. Escola now uses they-them pronouns.
For those who don't understand and want to understand, would you explain why you use they-them pronouns? I have always felt not male, not female. And, you know, it's funny, because recently I saw photos of me on Instagram. The comments were like, what is that? Like, that's not a man.
Well, it sure as hell ain't a woman either. And I was like, exactly, like you do get it. Likewise, Escola's comedic identity has never been in doubt. I mean, comedically, have you always done your own thing? Yes. Really? Yeah. So there was never a time where you thought, I need to be more like this person to make people respond to me. No.
It would be like trying to speak German when I don't actually know any German. It has to make me laugh in order for it to even have a chance of making someone else laugh. Escola began performing in community theater back in Oregon and eventually scraped together the money to make it to New York. So it was New Yorker bust.
It was New Yorker bust. At first attending college and living at the 92nd Street Y. It was a short stint.
Why were you here only nine months? I had to drop out because they wouldn't let me take out any more loans. I guess I was so poor that they were like, you'll never be able to pay this back. I felt like there was something wrong with me that I couldn't afford to go to school.
That's the thing that makes me the most angry about being poor is that just this innate sense that it's a moral failing or an innate thing that's broken in you. Escola eventually did make it back to New York to stay. Puka introduced me to the world of dog fighting and death metal. Gaining a fan base with online videos. No, I knew there was something. You all were hiding from me. And then on TV playing a range of deranged yet delightful characters. Hey, you're glowing.
I want whatever you've taken in addition to whatever I've already taken. And then along came Mary. The only thing I care about in the whole world.
The children. You don't come and see the show and go, there were layers and layers of development people that were saying, no, you've got to tweak it for this audience and do this for that audience. No, there is something special about the fact that I wrote this for me and my friends and for my audience that I've had in downtown venues and stuff. And the fact that it's successful, I don't know, it makes it that much sweeter.
It really does. I'm going to be famous! The most original musical ever is now streaming on Paramount+. I'm just giving the people what they want. From the director of The Greatest Showman, Better Man absolutely sizzles from start to finish. What are you going to say?
I want the world to see who I really am. It's wildly inventive and hilariously entertaining. No, stop it. It's nothing.
It's only the biggest event in history. The Greatest Showman now streaming on Paramount+. In the world of art, there's something special about the name Matisse. But as Lee Cowan has discovered, it's not just a name from the past. When I walked in, I knew that this is what I was going to do. As an apprentice to art, I was able to make a living out of it. I was able to make a living out of it. I was able to make a living out of it. I was able to make a living out of it. I was able to make a living out of it.
This is what I was going to do. As an apprentice to a potter, what Alex Matisse discovered shaped him, just like the clay itself. We were told pots have skin and bones and skeletons, and a plate should have the fullness of the moon. Artful descriptions indeed, much the way a painter might define their craft. In fact, it was Henri Matisse who once said, I don't literally paint the table, but the emotion it produces upon me.
And it seemed like a pretty cool little town. When Alex founded East Fort Pottery here in Asheville, North Carolina back in 2009, he took the same view. He saw ceramics as a canvas.
This is the Matisse Blue, which we formulated to accompany the line. It came easily like it was woven into his DNA, because it was. What did you know of your great-grandfather when you were growing up? He was everywhere, kind of in the air that we breathed, around the house, on the walls. Just who is his great-grandfather, you ask? Well, the man who painted these, Henri Matisse.
Yes, Alex Matisse is that Matisse. A famous last name he ran away from for years. I had a very grumpy relationship with him.
It was this kind of shadow thing that followed me around that I wanted to shake. Maybe it was stubbornness, maybe pride, but Alex was determined to make it on his own. He convinced his soon-to-be wife Connie to help him build a wood kiln way out on an old tobacco farm. Did she have the same passion for it that you did? No, she didn't have a passion for Connie. No, she has a lot of passion. But she had a passion for you, so she kept going.
Yes, she stuck around. I loved making this format. And without anyone knowing who he really was, his business boomed.
I was known for the surface decoration. I could barely keep up with demand. I just realized, I was like, if we're going to play in this world, something's got to change.
We cannot keep doing it like we did. So he decided to mechanize, at least partially. Can I pick it up? Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. So that's the clay? That's the clay, yeah. The pottery was still his. So that's how the mud comes off the machine. Only he thought a little better, especially with the colors.
He was excited. And we sent out a postcard of these new pots that look, you know, they were plain, they had colors on them, and nobody showed up. Really? Nobody showed up. So overnight we lost almost every single one of our customers. Like, they had thought we had lost our minds. And yet he still refused to fall back on the Matisse name. And it turned out that belief in himself paid off.
Sorry, 8562 is your key. Today, he's got legions of fans who call themselves potheads. They buy and share and trade East Fork dinnerware online. On the secondary market, some of the early pieces can go for thousands of dollars. So with East Fork firmly established... We wanted something that was going to really stand out.
About 18 months ago, Alex decided it was time to use his own name. You can see, like, the detail of the brush stroke here. He, along with his sister and brother, poured over hundreds of works by their great-grandfather to find the ones that could be pottery perfect. We wanted some things, like the Blue Nude series, that was instantly recognizable.
But then I wanted some that spoke to me a little bit more personally. So the decals, it's kind of like a temporary tattoo. Decals were made at the chosen works, faithful to their great-grandfather's exacting details.
Each one is carefully applied by hand and inspected by hand over and over again. And yet, Alex is still a tad worried. Do you ever wonder what your great-grandfather would think of this new collection? Oh, geez. No. No?
Because why? I don't know, because he was very serious. He was so focused on his work. Like, that's what he cared about. Henri Matisse once famously said that creativity takes courage. His great-grandson, Alex Matisse, would certainly agree with that. His only caveat is that sometimes, courage is all in the timing.
There's not a heaviness to it. I don't know. Now it's an interesting, it's just another layer, it's just another interesting part of my history, my family's history, and it feels great to celebrate it and share it. You might say our Steve Hartman story this morning speaks volumes. In Chelsea, Michigan, the local bookstore has quite a story of its own. I'm bringing this out. A story that began when Michelle Tuplin, owner of Serendipity Books, decided to relocate her business to a larger space.
I knew it was going to be great. But you didn't know how you were going to get the books over. No, the actual logistics, the details, not so much. And she had 9,000 books. Of course, she could have carried them all, but have you ever tried moving book boxes?
Good luck lifting anything after. She could have hired a hero with a truck, but that was cost prohibitive. So how then did she hope to move all these volumes to their new homes? Like this. Like a bucket brigade, but with books instead. At this point you should know, it's not like she was moving next door.
Follow me. The new location was down the block. Then around the corner, down another 200 feet, past 10 other storefronts to here. Making it work would require a good chunk of the town to volunteer. Well, that was the math thing that I never quite figured out.
So I thought, okay, well, we'll just ask for help, cross our fingers and hope for the best. With no idea how many people would show up? No.
No. And so it was. With that blind faith, Michelle showed up to move her bookstore last month and found this. Enough volunteers to stretch the whole way twice.
Two lines made up of more than 300 volunteers. It was overwhelming. For those of us who can't even get close friends to help us move, this defies logic. But folks in Chelsea say they were craving something that day. Community.
In our divided country, here was a gathering, neither rally nor protest. I just felt uplifted. It just made me feel good. Such a happy atmosphere. All generations all together working towards something. And exactly what life I think should be. As for Michelle, she says it completely restored her faith in humanity.
I think there's a basic trust that people are genuinely good, and that was massively emotional. Does all this make you want to move again? Oh, I'm never moving again. So, no sequel. This is our forever home.
But still, a literary masterpiece. There we go. You can't seriously believe that I have the slightest desire to become Poe.
Come on! Every cardinal has that desire. The movie, Conclave, was a critical and commercial success not very long ago. Now Martha Teichner tells us it's getting a second life.
Sedevacante. The throne of the Holy See is vacant. The end and the beginning. As cardinals played by John Lithgow and Ralph Fiennes confront the body of a dead pope in last year's Oscar-winning film Conclave, the process of electing his successor is set in motion. It seems the responsibility for the Conclave falls upon you.
The actual Conclave to elect a successor to Pope Francis will begin on Wednesday. But since his death on April 21st, huge numbers of US viewers have been streaming the film. What happened? Around 15,000 the day before he died.
Three million since then. This is the Villa de' Medici. So we decided to revisit the time we spent with Ralph Fiennes in Rome and then in New York City when the film came out last fall. To the person who knows, this is not the Vatican, but I think for a film you could believe this was an aspect of the Vatican.
And actually we shot just inside here. We used that lovely lion. This wonderful lion. So perhaps it's time you decided upon a name. John.
I would choose John. Cardinal Thomas Lawrence, played by Fiennes. I had no idea you were so ambitious. Oh, that's a ridiculous thing to say. Is it? Betraying his own suppressed ambition to be pope to another cardinal, played by Stanley Tucci. This is a Conclave, Aldo. It's not a war. It is a war! Both men caught up in the claustrophobic pressure cooker of papal politics. The cardinals are locked in. Imprisoned. In magnificence.
Who knows how long we're going to be in here. And secrecy. Most of the film was shot at Rome's famous Cinecitta studios.
Clothes are hugely important. And if you put on a robe like that and it hangs on you in a certain way and then suddenly does something to you for sure, you move differently. And you're in that Sistine Chapel set that we created at Cinecitta immediately. I mean, it was amazing shooting those voting scenes. I mean, it felt like we were in the real place. The sense of silence and ritual was palpable. It's a context of wealth. Worldly wealth. And these holy men are...
Supposedly... Yeah, I was going to do inverted commas signs. They are in a structure which massages their political instinct about the thing they're in called the church. Well, I was a political journalist and it is politics which fascinates me. And the conclave is just for me the ultimate election.
It's the oldest election. The most extraordinary. Robert Harris wrote the 2016 novel that inspired the film.
Since Pope Francis's death, sales are up tenfold. We spoke to him last week. It's not that I'm a kind of seer in some way. It's just that the conclave always falls into roughly this pattern. There are traditionalists and there are reformers.
There are geographical blocks. And out of this mix, a compromise candidate emerges. In the book and the film, the traditionalist is Tedesco, the reformer Bellini. Tremblay is a moderate, but a schemer.
There's Adeyemi, the African contender. One by one, they're eliminated. And a compromise candidate does emerge. The thing takes on a momentum of its own, as any group would. You know, like a jury that suddenly swings to a verdict. This is called within the spiritual world, the movement of the Holy Ghost through the Sistine.
In the political world, it would be called momentum. Although Harris is not a Catholic, his take on what happens during a conclave is generally regarded as pretty accurate. It seems as if the idea of the book is that somehow these flawed men, who are also holy men, do arrive at the right choice.
Yes, I think it's a very good process. I think the Roman Catholic Church has immense wisdom of centuries built into it. The film leaves you with a question. Who should lead? Who should lead a structure like the Catholic Church?
Who is the person worthy of it? But it also asks the question, will the political process that determines the leader produce the right leader? Yeah, that is, will it? Yeah, will it? The film seems to say yes. Yeah, the film does in this case say it can, it can.
It can. Ralph Fiennes, like the cardinal he plays, is a man of doubts. I was brought up a Catholic and then I rebelled when I was 13. My mother was a committed Catholic. On my mother's side, there are some theologians. So God questions have been in my family since I was a child. Did you come away with anything answered of your own questions?
No, I came away with more questions. If there was only certainty and no doubt, there would be no mystery and therefore no need for faith. The way that he pronounces the word faith at the end is just extraordinary. Robert Harris is a big fan of the movie. Now Harris is watching his book come to life for real. And so I've seen the early stages of the novel sort of unfold in front of me and that has been a rather strange sensation, frankly, to witness this machinery going into operation.
No matter who ends up pope, Harris, the ex-newsman turned novelist, knows a good story when he sees one. The whole imagery of it. You are watching it live.
The smoke coming out of the chimney. I mean, what an extraordinary, brilliant concept that is, that's entered the language and the culture of the world. It's a spectacle that plays very, very well. I'm amused, incidentally, that the Enclave is going to start. I think it's on a Wednesday, isn't it? There will be a real strong feeling among the Cardinals that they'd quite like to get out of Rome on Friday afternoon.
It's quite an effective shrewd deadline. With David Pogue, we're heading to a family-owned grocery store that for more than a century has been serving customers and making friends. A lot of friends. These people are not here for a rock concert or a playoff game.
They didn't get these tattoos for a social cause. They're here for the opening of a grocery store. It's like going to grocery food Disneyland. Well, I will say, you have the display of produce thing down.
I mean, this is gorgeous. We began as a produce company in 1916, and actually it wasn't even a store, it was a wagon. Danny Wegman is the chairman and co-owner of Wegman's Groceries, headquartered here in Rochester, New York. The founders, his grandfather and uncle, wouldn't recognize the 112 stores today, neatly labeled, beautifully lit, and huge. That's our whole secret to what we do. Highest volume grocery stores in America. Three or four times what an average store will do. Wegman's might also be accused of being a little obsessed about food quality.
The company operates its own bakery, its own regenerative farm, and its own cheese caves. Do you think any customer in the grocery store grabbing something for the Super Bowl party knows or cares that that brie has been treated with such extremism? Probably not.
They just know that it's good. Alright, shall we try? Sure. Oh wow, that is a completely different food. Can you see why we went through all this work?
I'm sorry I'm busy. And yet, Wegman's doesn't describe itself primarily as a food company. Instead, we're a people company that's very passionate about food. Danny's daughters, Colleen and Nicole, are CEO and president. They know the company's core values by heart.
Here you go. Caring, high standards, make a difference, respect and empowerment. There's not a company in the world who doesn't say, we care about our customers, we believe in our people.
What does that mean in hard terms? Do they have higher pay than the standard? Absolutely. Do they get benefits? Yes. So the person stocking your shelves gets health insurance?
Yes. The retention is probably two to three times what the industry would be. They can come at age 15 and stay for an entire career.
And they do. We had over 350,000 applicants last year. For how many jobs?
Around 10,000. You had 35 times more applicants than you needed? Yes, yes. And the number one thing we hire for is caring.
We believe we can train just about anything else. It seems to be working. Wegmans shoppers are almost a cult. Happy and fun to buy stuff and try new things. Everything they do is for the betterment of the community. What's your reaction when you see somebody with a Wegmans tattoo?
I think it's great. Here, I'll show you one. The newest Wegmans, though, is not a grocery. It's a sushi restaurant in New York that opened this past week called Next Door. When you say Next Door, you're not kidding.
Grocery store, restaurant. Absolutely, seamless. I told you, the continuous conversation. It is.
Paula Wegman is Danny's wife and the co-designer. And so we thought, why not create an oasis for our customers to be able to come and sit down and enjoy away from the hustle and the bustle and the fast pace of the city. The sushi here is not cheap, but it is spectacular. Most of the fish comes from Japan.
We fly it in at least two times a week. Why would there be a difference between a Japanese tuna and an American tuna? They actually pet the fish and put the fish to sleep, and then they say to the fish, it's been a good life. Wait, wait, this is real?
You can taste the difference between a fish that has been lovingly killed? That's amazing. Clearly, Wegmans has found a winning formula. So the big question is, you have 100-and-something stores, but they're all on the East Coast. Why aren't you going nationwide? It's our goal to go to every store at least once a year because we want a personal relationship with our store management.
Our grandfather started that, so we like to stay small enough where we can still do that. Isn't the objective of a business in America to make as much money as you can? Our objective is to make the most difference we can. Our goal is to take care of our people, and we don't care what it costs to do it. With the 100th anniversary of Malcolm X's birth later this month, contributor Mark Whitaker, author of a new book on the topic, has thoughts on the life and legacy of a civil rights icon. We are loving people. We love everybody who loves us.
But we don't love anybody who doesn't love us. This month marks the 100th birthday of Malcolm X, the defiant, charismatic black leader who electrified America with his blunt talk and biting humor. In his brief 39 years, Malcolm was many things. A street hustler who found religion in prison, a spokesman for the Nation of Islam who preached racial separatism.
Then he became that rarest of leaders, one who admits a mistake. He began a new human rights movement that reached out to whites of good faith. To bring about the freedom of these people by any means necessary. Malcolm's most famous phrase, by any means necessary, was widely seen as a threat of violence. But to his admirers, it stood for self-defense, for asserting black pride and culture, and telling it like he saw it in describing the advances of the civil rights era. I will never say that progress is being made.
If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. After breaking with the Nation of Islam, and publicly accusing its leader Elijah Muhammad of adultery, Malcolm was candid with CBS's Mike Wallace about the danger he faced. Are you not perhaps afraid of what might happen to you as a result of making these revelations?
Oh yes, I probably am a dead man already. He was indeed. Seven months later, Malcolm was murdered at a rally on February 21, 1965. Yet, as I chronicle my book, in the 60 years since, he has experienced a remarkable afterlife. It began with the autobiography of Malcolm X, which touched millions. Throughout the 1960s, Malcolm inspired leaders of the Black Power and Black Arts movements, and activist athletes like Muhammad Ali and Olympic sprinter John Carlos. In the 80s and beyond, hip-hop artists invoked Malcolm, and Spike Lee immortalized him on film. We didn't land on Plymouth Rock.
Plymouth Rock landed on us. Meanwhile, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas argued that Malcolm was actually a conservative, a believer in self-help, not looking for handouts. Now, Malcolm X is hailed by scholars alongside Martin Luther King Jr., whose nonviolent message Malcolm once mocked.
Historian Peniel Joseph, author of the forthcoming book Freedom Season, likens them to a sword and a shield. Malcolm we usually think of as the political sword of this period. Dr. King as the political shield. So I'd say the differences between them were really about how they conceptualized freedom for black people. King has the famous quote where he says, the law can't make somebody like me, but it can prevent someone from lynching me, right? That was Dr. King. Malcolm really felt that black people needed to recognize their own dignity. So it was a sort of a psychological liberation that had to happen before the political liberation. Yes, dignity meant that we would no longer suffer from self-hatred and self-loathing, which Malcolm diagnosed as one of the ills of the ghetto. Who taught you to hate the shape of your nose and the shape of your lips?
Who taught you to hate yourself from the top of your head to the soles of your feet? Those piercing questions and that call to self-belief still resonate in the fractious politics of today. As does Malcolm's warning to Mike Wallace about the consequences of injustice. White people don't realize how frustrated Negroes have become. I think they have come to understand the Negro's frustration, but they are also of the opinion that no good can possibly come from violence. If they are of that opinion, Mike, if you think that the powder keg that's in your house is going to explode under certain conditions, either you have to remove the powder keg or remove the conditions. Thank you for listening. Please join us when our trumpet sounds again next Sunday morning.
