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Granger for the ones who get it done. It's 5.05 and welcome in to a Thursday edition of the Carolina Journal News Hour on Charlotte's FM News Talk, 107.9 FM, WBT, I'm Nick Craig. Good morning to you. All week here on the Carolina Journal News Hour, we've been highlighting what we were expecting to be a very busy week in Raleigh as the legislative short session continues.
Well, that did not disappoint yesterday. A lot of movement in the North Carolina House and Senate to walk through some of those details this morning. Andrew Pomerance, CarolinaJournal.com joins us on the news hour. Andrew, an incredibly busy day in Raleigh yesterday, some constitutional amendments moving between both chambers, a long-standing veto override in the House passed. You were in the chambers yesterday.
Walks through before we get into some of the details. What was the general atmosphere like? Yeah, hey, Nick, good morning. Happy Thursday. It was a busy day, both Tuesday and Wednesday, down in the General Assembly this week.
know overall vibe was they were high we had a lot of energy this week um it came out tuesday morning that uh all 71 republicans in the house of representatives uh was in attendance and was going to be willing there to uh hold votes um in the afternoons and obviously you know we've had some of these constitutional amendments um and veto overrides that require uh 72 votes and so this was a um you know an opportunity for Republicans to push through some of the larger legislative hurdles that were still outstanding in this short session. And so we came into the week with a lot of excitement. There were some highs and some lows, some high energy moments, but we made it through. And, you know, I think we'll see this momentum head not into next week, but the week following as we wrap up the short session, hopefully by July 2nd. Yeah, lawmakers, this is their final set of voting days in the month of May.
They'll be back that first week of June. You mentioned that 72 vote threshold, Andrew. That is incredibly relevant in the North Carolina House as there are 71 Republicans. They need at least. At least one Democrat or two new brand new independent or unaffiliated members, both of them out of the Charlotte area.
They'd lost their primaries back in March. Both of those individuals, Carla Cunningham and Representative Nasheed, both switching their party affiliation. Where do they shake out in some of these debates in Raleigh? Yeah, they ended up, like a lot of us have been predicting now for months, they ended up being the two deciding votes on both the constitutional amendments and the veto overrides, both coming together actually on all the amendments. And so total votes ended up being 73 instead of the 72 required to move these proposals forward.
We reported on a meeting Tuesday afternoon that happened between Representative Cunningham and Representative Majeed and then also Speaker Hall and some of the House leadership. And that happened about Tuesday afternoon. And I think from there, we knew there was some optimism looking ahead for those votes. But both of those now independent representatives, formerly Democratic representatives. Voted with Republicans across the board on these amendments.
And I think we'll see more of that going forward. I think there's some optimism around as we still have a few constitutional amendments outstanding. I think there's an optimism that they'll vote with the Republicans on those as well. Yeah, five of those amendments still, or five of those overrides, I should say, still remaining on the House calendar. They've been on there since last summer when the legislation was originally overridden in the North Carolina Senate.
Let's get to these constitutional amendments, Andrew. There was about three hours of debate on the House floor yesterday. It was a very long morning/slash early afternoon in Raleigh on Wednesday. Walk us through these constitutional amendments dealing not only with property taxes, but also levy limits and something dealing with vacancies within the Council of State. Yeah, so after 10:30 session start time on Wednesday morning, we were there until about 2:30.
At one point, the speaker waived the rule about eating on the House floor. I think, as you can see, the representatives working through lunch on Wednesday. But there were three Senate or amendments that came out of the House.
So, the first being Senate Bill 1080, which is the lower taxes for all North Carolinians. And this is the amendment concerning the income tax rate.
So, bumping it from 7% to 3.5% for both the personal and corporate income tax levels. This is a number that we're already at, or we're already projected to be at here in North Carolina. We are looking at, you know, 3.49 becoming the new income tax cap in 2027.
So, this just really puts on a cap going forward. I think this builds upon a 2018 constitutional amendment, lowering that income tax cap from 10 to 7%. And this just guarantees that going forward, we can't raise it above that 3.5%. This amendment, more unique than the others, is now passed by both the Senate and the House. And so will be on the November ballot for voters to decide.
And that's just a simple majority that's required. for that to become constitutional law come November. The other two amendments, the first being the levy limit, we've done a lot of research over at the John Locke Foundation on that. And it's a cap on how fast income taxes can grow.
So it's not a, or I'm sorry, property taxes can grow. It's not a property tax deduction necessarily. We're not pulling back property tax levels from localities, but just saying, hey, we understand they are growing at exponential rate, and we want to make sure that we're raising them in a smart way. And this is something that started over the winter in a House committee to study property tax reform. And after the speaker said, you know, we've heard a lot from our constituents on this issue as reappraisals happen this year, as people tried to understand why the cost of living had gone up by so much in North Carolina.
And so something that Speaker Hall has been behind since day one in that property tax committee. That actually took went over to the Senate floor Wednesday afternoon in a last end of the day vote that was also passed. And so we'll see that on the ballot come November. And that reporting should be on Carolina Journal, hopefully later this afternoon when that final vote was taken. And then that third property, that third amendment that was addressed is a amendment that would change a kind of more complicated system with the Council of States vacancies.
And so this is still waiting to be heard in the Senate. This kind of ties back to how we fill eight of the statewide elected offices in the Council of States. And Nick, we'll run through that in a moment. I'm sure a lot more there, but this would actually require the governor to choose a replacement from a list provided by the departing officials.
So whoever's leaving office, their political party, rather than currently, that is just a governor appointee. And so what happens a lot of times is a Republican may win the general election for one of these states or Democrat. And the governor then could nominate someone of the opposite party.
So we heard some interesting debate around this on the floor saying, you know, with Democrats saying, you know, this is not something that they're necessarily opposed to, but it was the language and the way in which we were doing so and allowing the political parties to put forward nominees rather than some other system of maybe elected officials. Of those parties. But those were the three big ones today. We heard, like I said, lots of debate on the floor on all three. And I think we'll continue to hear these three come up as we roll into November general election season.
Yeah, great recap there. Andrew, let's go to the two constitutional amendments that garnered the most reaction on the House for that. One dealing with the property tax rate or the levy limit, the other dealing with the personal income tax. And you mentioned just a couple of minutes ago, reducing that from 7% to 3.5%. The tax rate is well below 7%.
56% or 58% of the voters supported lowering it from 10% to 7% back in 2018. And at least according to our most recent Carolina Journal polling, strong evidence that voters are in favor of continuing to reduce that cap, kind of putting this limit on the future General Assembly. And that was a lot of the discussion on both of these issues. We saw and heard a lot of discussion, particularly from those on the political left, making the argument that this was essentially shackling general assemblies going forward. tying their hands and not giving them the ability to raise revenues if they needed to.
Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, that's what it comes down to, right? Is in the future, making sure that the property tax or the income tax reductions that we have passed in the past and through this tiered system that we're currently in, just those that those become law and those become, you know, concrete. We saw this week, you know, we again overproduced on our budget projections for the state this year. And so we had extra money come in.
And you can find that story over at CarolinaJournal.com as well. And so I think this really points to the current tax policies being quite successful and achieving the goals that Republicans have wanted them to and that are across the state have been production beneficial for the state as a whole. And so just codifying those and laws, making sure in the future, no matter who's in party, no matter the situation, whether that be a really great economic situation or really poor, you know, remain the same. And I think that was the argument we heard most commonly from Democrats is, you know, in the future, if we see an economic downturn and we aren't able to raise income taxes in the state to cover some of those additional costs, you know, what were we going to do? And so I think, you know, an interesting debate there, but all trends point towards our current income tax reductions being beneficial for the state.
And so this is just kind of codifying those in law.
Well, you say that. And I think a lot of Republicans in Raleigh say that. Democrats on the House floor on Wednesday did not have that same opinion, many of them pointing to Andrew. I think what a lot of individuals have found themselves kind of burnt out with here in North Carolina, 15 years of Democrats talking about a fiscal cliff that the state of North Carolina due to these reductions, not only in personal tax rates, but the corporate income tax rate is going to leave the state on this hanging financial cliff. The state is going to be broke.
We've been hearing this argument now 15 plus years. It has not come to fruition. And as you just highlighted, we just got a recent. Revenue report showing once again that those numbers were way off their initial projections by the tune of billions of dollars. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, that report came out earlier this week, and it definitely strengthened the arguing position of the. Folks introducing the amendments today. I think Republicans found another point, another feather in their cap people to point to today to say, what we're doing is working and we should continue with it. Andrew, we've got a lot of coverage of what's going on in the General Assembly over the last couple of weeks. And of course, we'll keep an eye on that as we transition into the month of June and we follow the last couple of voting days in this legislative short session.
Where can folks stay up to date with the details? Yeah, they can call along at thecarolinajournal.com. We appreciate the information this morning. Andrew Pomerance joins us on the Carolina Journal news app. Here there are beaches, as wide open as your plans.
and waterfront towns more charming than you could ever imagine. Ready for the perfect spring getaway? Visit crystalcoastnc.com slash booking now. Uh It's 521. Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour, Charlotte's FM News Talk, 107.9 FM, WBT.
We are continuing our coverage of what you just heard between me and Andrew Palmer. It's a very busy Wednesday in the North Carolina legislature as the Republican majority there move forward on two constitutional amendments that voters will have the choice to decide and vote on coming up here later on this year. One of them dealing with property taxes. We've talked about it in great detail here on the Carolina Journal News Hour, known as a levy limit. This is Representative Brian Echeveria from Cabarris County, the Republican there, describing why this legislation or why this constitutional amendment was brought forward on the House floor yesterday.
Over the last decade, Thanks to steady conservative leadership, North Carolina has built a strong Economy. Businesses want to be here and people want to live here. Our population and property values have increased. As a result, We have a fantastic real estate market and unemployment is at 3.8%. That's lower than the national average, and thanks to some of our senior members here, a long way from 2010, when North Carolina's unemployment was almost 11 percent.
Vision and imagination increased. We have Gorgeous. Courthouses and what I like to call beautiful Taj Mahai schools. But you know what else increased? Property tax bills.
The increases have not only been high, but some would say extreme. And now the people on whom our strong economy was built Need our help.
So, over the last five months, in order to help, We've done a lot of listening. We heard extensively from staff, subject matter experts, and even those who don't. want to protect people from enormous tax increases. The discussion was candid. And the conclusion Was that we should ask the people.
If they want a constitutional amendment requiring limits on property tax increases by local governments, That's the voice of Brian Echoveria, the Republican out of Cabarris County, describing portions of why he and the Republican majority moved forward with those levy limits, the constitutional amendment dealing with levy limits in Raleigh yesterday. More from him. North Carolina is behind in protecting our people from sharp property tax increases. But we don't have to take all the risk. You see, as a matter of fact, 38 states have meaningful guardrails.
with 22 of them already having levy limits in place. Levy limits work. The sky did not fall. Services were not cut. And their residents have protection from unaffordable and unsustainable property tax hikes.
Now These states are not the mark. The mark is whether we are optimal. and protecting our people from runaway property tax increases. The data presented to our committee says no. This constitutional amendment is the first step in optimally protecting our people.
Now speaking of our people, let me say. Most of our local government officials are great servants. Have been responsible stewards of the public purse and have shouldered the immense burden of local government well. When I've had a chance to speak with them, I asked them to imagine a day when they were not in office. And others We're at the hill.
That's Representative Brian Echevera, the Republican from Cabaris County in Raleigh yesterday, discussing this property tax limit known as a levy limit. Hearing from some other members on the House floor, Representative Carla Cunningham, she, of course, has been in the news a lot over the last couple of months, losing her Democrat primary in March of this year after being primaried by a candidate that was backed by Democrat Governor Josh Stodden and the Democrat establishment here in North Carolina. She also spoke on these levy limits.
So yeah, the counties have needs, but the people also have needs. We have gendified our senior citizens out of our communities because of the tax reevaluations. That's the real deal. We're talking about an economy. that right now people are struggling to put food on their table.
keep gas in their car. Where is the relief going to come from? But the counties are supposed to provide necessity services. which they're taxing the people to get it. But I would say everybody's got to tighten their belt around here.
Waste is in everything. Fraud is in everything. And let's don't talk about these counted.
social services departments, which are very heavy on my heart right now. Because If people are doing their job and doing it efficiently, Oversight has to come into play. We just can't keep just giving people money. and they not performing their duties or meeting the expectations. Can't keep doing it.
We've done it. We've done it for years.
Some interesting commentary there from Representative Cunningham, noting that county governments, like many individuals, need to look at and city governments need to look at tightening their belt as economic conditions continue to put pressure on a variety of entities across the state of North Carolina. Final clip on the levy limit discussion in Raleigh yesterday. Here's Representative John Bluss, the Republican from Guilford County. And you cannot keep dumping this kind of burden on citizens year after year. And we talk about the struggle of commissioners and town councilmen.
What about the struggle of average working people? They don't have a source. that they can just raise every year. They don't have a source of income. They can.
Turn to They're struggling just to pay their bills.
Well I saw yesterday the governor had some Executive order on affordable housing.
Well, I would posit to you there's no such thing as affordable housing when there are high property taxes. That's Representative John Bluss discussing the issue in Raleigh. This constitutional amendment did move forward officially in the North Carolina House with 73 yes votes. 72 were needed for the supermajority threshold required for a constitutional amendment. Late in the afternoon on Wednesday as well, the North Carolina Senate took up this same constitutional amendment and discussion as well.
It did officially pass that chamber by that same supermajority threshold in the North Carolina Senate, meaning that voters coming up later on this year will have the ability to decide whether they do or do not support this levy limit. There's going to be a lot of discussion on that in the months to come. We'll be chatting with our experts over at the John Locke Foundation about that, and we'll keep you up to date over on our website, CarolinaJournal.com. Um It's 5.36. Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour, Charlotte's FM News Talk, 107.9 FM, WBT continuing our coverage of what was a busy Wednesday in Raleigh.
As the North Carolina General Assembly, more specifically, the North Carolina House dealt with a more than three-hour session yesterday morning and into the early afternoon dealing with two constitutional, or three, more accurately to say, three constitutional amendments that voters will have the choice to decide on coming up later on this year. The one that we've already talked about here this morning is what is known as the levy limit, which would put a restrain on what local governments can do in terms of property taxes each and every budget year. We'll keep an eye on that as I'm sure you will be hearing more of the term levy limit in the months to come as voters will decide that coming up in November. The other issue that lawmakers dealt with, the other constitutional amendment, deals with personal income tax. Currently in North Carolina, the personal income tax rate is 3.99%.
As we look forward to the calendar year starting January 1st of 2027, that rate is a Scheduled to drop to 3.49%, and lawmakers want to amend the state constitution to reduce the cap, which is currently at 7%, down to 3.5%. Representative Dean Arp, the Republican from Union County, explained why lawmakers are moving forward with this proposal in the House chamber yesterday. Senate Bill 1080, lower taxes for all in North Carolina. The amendment that is put before The people of North Carolina is simple. At its core, It's the people of North Carolina.
deciding what they want to do with their own money. In 2018, 57% of North Carolinians A bipartisan majority across the state approved a 7% state tax income cap. Today, the personal income tax rate is at 3.99%. It's scheduled by law currently to drop and will drop next year to 3.49 percent. Inflation and cost of living is real and on the top of everybody's concern.
People are working harder. and having less. People feel squeezed, and paychecks are stretched less and less every year. We have put our house in order. We have been controlled and disciplined in our taxing and spending.
We're doing. with their tax money. what the people are doing themselves with their family money. North Carolina today is the evidence that those policies are working. In 2012, We had a federal That to we had a debt to the federal government.
Imagine that. Our finances were worse than the federal government's. At that time, we had to borrow money. to pay our debts. The administration at that time furloughed teachers and raised a temporary sales tax increase and was wanting to do it again.
Now we've paid off those federal debts. We've created a rainy day savings. To account for economic downturns, nine of the last ten economic downturns. We now have $3.6 billion in that account. We've covered hurricane losses and the largest hurricane in North Carolina's history.
62% of our state Tax supported debt. Has been reduced in the last 13 years. We're paying it off. In the next five years, we're scheduled to have reduced that debt by 84%. We're moving to being debt-free and using that money.
which was going to pay debt for real services that are needed elsewhere. All the while lowering taxes for all North Carolinians. And raising the standard deductions where taxpayer pay no income tax at all. And we're raising more money. in revenues than in the history of North Carolina.
Mm-hmm. That's Representative Dean Arp, the Republican out of Union County, describing some of the rationale behind continuing to lower this rate. As I mentioned before playing his clip, North Carolina's personal income tax rate is already set to drop to 3.49% starting January 1 of next year. And so while this won't have an immediate impact on taxpayers, this would protect the citizens of the state of North Carolina moving forward, meaning that future General Assembly. assemblies would not have the ability to increase that personal income tax rate above 3.5% without going back to the voters and proposing another constitutional amendment to increase that rate.
Some members, however, in the General Assembly not satisfied with that. Representative Marsha Maury, the Democrat from Durham County, did not like what the Republican majority was moving forward with. We're now looking at limiting the state income tax. What are we doing? We're squeezing it at both ends from the top.
and from the bottom. It's unsustainable. Put this on The people's ballot, lower your income tax. Who wouldn't vote for that? Santa Claus has come to town.
Let's have the lowest property income tax in the Southeast. Every one of our neighbors currently has higher taxes than North Carolina. Virginia 5.7%, South Carolina 6%, Georgia over 5%, Alabama 5%. We're already lower than our neighbors. And now we want to lower it again.
Just a few years ago, we had the Constitution Amendment, 7%. And here we are, let's cut it in half. That went well, let's do 3.5%. What we're not telling the voters are the consequences. Sure, it's great to lower taxes, but you're also going to stop services.
You're going to slow services down. You are going to squeeze people dry. We will not be doing our essential functions. as government to help the people of North Carolina. That's Representative Marsha Morey, the voice that you're hearing there on the House floor yesterday, echoing what Republicans scoffed at as for the last 15 years.
Democrats in both chambers of the General Assembly have made this point consistently every single time. Lawmakers have come forward with tax reductions, which have been substantial going back to 2010, where the personal income tax rate was over 8% here in the state of North Carolina, now at 3.99%, cutting that in half over the last 15 years. Speaking of doomsday scenarios in which the state would be out of money, where the state would not have the funds necessary to operate government, that has not come to fruition. And lawmakers were quick to point that out in the discussion on the House floor yesterday. Representative Neil Jackson from Moore County also talking about why he believes this constitutional amendment is crucially important to the state.
One party believes government is the answer. And the other party believes government is the problem. Ronald Reagan says the most feared words in the English language. I'm from the government. And I'm here to help.
Never once have I had a constituent come and say, Neil, I want more government and I want more taxes. No, no, no, no. It's the exact opposite. They want government out of their life. and they want lower taxes.
So One other thing that one of my colleagues mentioned. Whose money is it? Is it the government's money? Or is it the people's money that we are simply giving back to them? And I would voraciously defend that it's not our money.
It is their money, and we are to restrain spending and give the people's money back to them. You say, Jackson, what is this really about? I would say it's about freedom. And it's about wealth. That's Representative Neil Jackson, the Republican from Moore County, in his opinion, describing and comparing and contrasting the way in which Democrats and Republicans handle tax and spend policies in the North Carolina General Assembly.
We'll wrap up the commentary with Representative Brendan Jones, the Republican from Columbus County. He was the last Republican to speak on this new proposed constitutional amendment in which voters will decide whether or not they want to move forward with a new income tax cap at 3.5%. But the way we're going with this state and how we're doing with our ratings, And saving people money. I thank you. I thank you for your comments today because you have proven a point to the citizens of North Carolina that you don't want to lower taxes.
You've proved it today. You've said it, came out your mouth. We don't want to do it. We don't think the citizens of North Carolina deserve lower taxes. And trust us, we know what you'll do if you ever got back in control.
We'll be at those double taxes. Mr. Speaker, I didn't hear anybody on this side say that North Carolinians don't deserve it. The lady will spin until she's recognized. For what purpose does the lady from Buncombe, Representative Prayer, arise?
For what purpose? The gentleman has the floor again. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm sure it's a source of, I'd be mad if I were you too.
But you know the point was made you had your soap box. I don't have one, but I didn't want to just you know from our side We've had to listen to this for several hours. You've criticized my members, who's worked very hard. I think we've done a really good job in the last 16 years. And those of you that have been serving the whole time, I look at Representative Howard and just think about Representative Setzer, the years they had to endure, and Representative Eiler of being pushed down, and they didn't even get the opportunities.
to just talk on the house floor because their microphones were cut off.
So The Speaker and I passed a bill sometime back to do the recording of this chamber. I'm going to ask that you go back and look at it and really just really look at what you're saying. Because I'm going to ask that the citizens of North Carolina look back and say, you know what? Wow, the Democrats said we don't want to lower taxes. It's going to be a great headline.
That's Representative Brendan Jones, the Republican from Columbus County, similar to the levy limit constitutional amendment that we talked about a little bit earlier. This did, in fact, move forward with 73 votes. Both representatives from Mecklenburg County, who recently switched their party affiliations from Democrat to unaffiliated. Representatives Cunningham and Majeed, both voting with the Republican majority in Raleigh, getting to that 73-vote margin moving forward. And so, with that, voters will have the opportunity to decide.
Coming up in November of this year, we will, of course, keep an eye on all of the continued progress as lawmakers. Presumably, we'll try and get some messaging out about these amendments and why voters should support them in the weeks and months to come. Continuing coverage of what was a busy day in Raleigh over on our website, CarolinaJournal.com. If the world were like a sleep number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Because as your life changes and your body changes, Sleep Number mattresses adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night.
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Good morning again. It's 5.53. Welcome back to the Carolina Journal News Hour, Charlotte's FM News Talk, 107.9 FM, WBT continuing our coverage of a busy Wednesday in Raleigh as the North Carolina House voted 73 to 46 to override Governor Josh Stein's veto of House Bill 87. The name of that legislation, Education Choice for Children Act, which is advancing a school choice measure to the Senate, which must concur for it to become law. All-House Republicans supported the override joined by newly unaffiliated members of the General Assembly.
Representatives Carla Cunningham and Representatives Nasheef Majeed from Mecklenburg County, both lawmakers representing that county, switched their party affiliation from Democrat to unaffiliated after losing their primaries in March. Representative Neil Jackson, the Republican from Moore County, urged his colleagues to support the measure, framing it as a no-cost expansion of education options across the Tar Heel State, saying in part, this is a federal program. It costs the state of North Carolina nothing. It expands education opportunities for all students, public school students, charter school students, private school students, and home school students. It allows taxpayers to voluntarily fund student scholarships and gives more students access to quality education environments.
House Speaker Destin Hall, the Republican from Caldwell County, was very satisfied with the vote as well, saying in part, today's override was another major win for North Carolina students and parents. Governor Stein and Democrats tried to stand in the way of giving families more control over their children's education. But Republicans yet again stood firmly on the side of educational freedom. This vote was about trusting parents and giving students more choices. Because when our kids succeed, North Carolina succeeds as well.
With the Senate also dealing with this legislation, North Carolina would be added to the growing list of states that have opted into a new federal tax credit program that was authorized under the One Big Beautiful Bill Act signed into law by President Donald Trump almost one year ago. Beginning in 2027, individuals can claim a dollar-for-dollar federal tax credit of up to $1,700 per year for donations to scholarship-granting organizations known as SGOs. These SGOs then issue scholarships for tuition, tutoring, dual enrollment, special education therapies, transportation, curriculum materials, testing fees, and other qualified educational expenses with families earning up to three times the area's median income being eligible for the expanded program. the state's education assistance authority, which already administers The Opportunity Scholarship Program here across the state of North Carolina will be the group that is responsible for maintaining a list of approved scholarship organizations and submit it to the United States Treasury Department. Again, as this is a federal program, the agency must establish rules coming up very quickly, either within 120 days of federal guidelines.
So they've got to get that squared away pretty quickly here over the next couple of months. Stein vetoed the bill last summer, casting it as a giveaway to wealthy donors at the expense of public schools. With Democrats echoing that similar argument on the House floor yesterday, continuing coverage of that over on our website, CarolinaJournal.com. That's going to do it for a Thursday edition. WBT News is next.
Followed by Good Morning BT. We're back with you tomorrow morning, 5-6, right here on Charlotte's FM News Talk, 107.9, WBT.
